Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: FUNKED1 on July 31, 2004, 07:18:16 PM
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(http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/graphics/B01.jpg)
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(http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/graphics/A06.jpg)
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Funk, I always figured you for a lefty liberal. I mean, well oh never mind.
:lol
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Originally posted by 212
Funk, I always figured you for a lefty liberal. I mean, well oh never mind.
:lol
Funked is a liberal. His post is intended to show just how much of a True Patriot John Kerry is. He is proud of Kerry for standing up for justice and the victory of peace and brotherhood in Vietnam.
Moreover Funked and I both beileve that John Kerry will work tirelessly to return Northern Aztlan to her proper owners, the great and glorious people and nation of Mexico.
Kerry has my support. Kerry will be a great President!
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get over it
;)
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im still waiting for the debates. i want to see kerry explain on live tv exactly what he meant in his testimony about us commiting war crimes in vn.
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
get over it
;)
I'll never get over a traitor helping the communists invade and destroy a country that guys like my father were risking their necks to keep free. I wouldn't pee on Kerry if he was on fire.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
I'll never get over a traitor helping the communists invade and destroy a country that guys like my father were risking their necks to keep free. I wouldn't pee on Kerry if he was on fire.
Nazi.
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Kerry was visiting Viet Nam in 1991 as the Chair of the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs.
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The content of the photo is not the issue. It's the fact that it is in the PRVN war museum in an area "honoring" Americans who helped them annex the RVN.
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Kerry was in vietnam for 4 months.
My flight instructor was there for 4 years.
Kerry's COs say he didn't deserve any of the recognition he got.
I dont think he has any more to tout than Muhammed Ali or Bill Clinton.
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I've never been in any US WWII museums... but has anyone seen a picture of Hitler in one of them?
There's a difference between a museum and a shrine.
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MT fouls one off. Nash swings and misses. Sandy or somebody want to try to let me strike out the side? :rofl
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Originally posted by Nash
I've never been in any US WWII museums... but has anyone seen a picture of Hitler in one of them?
There's a difference between a museum and a shrine.
Although Hitler's stupidity was vital in our WW2 victory its really much different than Kerry's willfull betrayal of his country and her allies to the enemy.
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To be frank I dunno much at all about why Kerry's pic is there.
So yeah funked... bottom of the ninth two out.
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You won't see Hitler's picture in any display devoted to things that helped the allies win the War, Nash.
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Funked your as much a propogandist as the communists. The real reason why the US didnt win the VN war is because the US didnt bomb the leadership and command structures of the north. They should have bombed the he*ll out of everything important in the north. That probably one of the reason why Kerry felt frustrated to begin with while in VN. He tried to save American lives. Not to help the commies.
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Actually there are numerous reasons why that conflict turned out the way it did. Much had to do with the context of (US) history during its event. Kerry before congress in 71 wasnt why. That was way too late in the war.
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But what if the pics are unintellagible? Then there worth, what? an eye sore?
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Quote:
"He tried to save American lives. Not to help the commies."
Yeah, by declaring that he and his "band of brothers" committed "war crimes", "atrocities", etc., routinely as a "matter of policy". Yeah, that "saves American lives" and does not provide "aid and comfort" to the Commies. And i have green hair on my ass.
I saw and heard Kerry say it on TV. It's not Michael Moore-style propaganda bull****. It's a fact. You can make excuses for that P.O.S. all you like. The fact remains, Kerry is a worthless, lying, opportunistic demogogue of the lowest order who disgraced his country and the United States Armed Forces....
C.
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Dammit....
I've given the odd shot at drawing Cabby outta the woodwork... but no luck.
You make it look easy funked.
What's the secret?
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Ok, no more Kerry debating for me. Im going to go have a smoke in the patio. Cumbaya.
:D
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Originally posted by Jasta
...Kerry's COs say he didn't deserve any of the recognition he got...
That has always seemed odd to me. I was in the navy long after the VN war, but sure as hell my CO would have had to approve any decoration I recieved.
...does this make sense to any VN vets? Were CO's not part of the awards routing?
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I have always wanted to grab a nekkid Jane Fonda and shag that woman to the point where her eyeballs popped out!
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Originally posted by anonymous
im still waiting for the debates. i want to see kerry explain on live tv exactly what he meant in his testimony about us commiting war crimes in vn.
LOL!
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Originally posted by Yeager
I have always wanted to grab a nekkid Jane Fonda and shag that woman to the point where her eyeballs popped out!
Congratulations. Having your women's pleasure in the forefront of you mind makes you truely a sensitive wonderful man.
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(http://www.80scartoons.net/images/f/fatalbert.jpg)
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(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/655_1091369965_undercoverbrother1.gif)
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
The content of the photo is not the issue. It's the fact that it is in the PRVN war museum in an area "honoring" Americans who helped them annex the RVN.
You make it sound as if he submitted the picture himself.
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Originally posted by anonymous
im still waiting for the debates. i want to see kerry explain on live tv exactly what he meant in his testimony about us commiting war crimes in vn.
Yeah right, the guy who avoided service questioning the guy who did serve, i'de like to see that too.
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Sixpence, tell that to all the guys in the NG. He did serve, you just will not accept the fact.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Yeah right, the guy who avoided service questioning the guy who did serve, i'de like to see that too.
whats the deal here? the guy was a fully rated fighter pilot right? thats a great deal of intensive training and a pretty high washout rate when you look at how many guys actually wind up in the cockpit of a fighter. how do you equate being a fighter pilot with "not serving". and ill also point out that bush isnt making sure his days as a fighter pilot are being mentioned every time his name is mentioned. sixpence have you read the transcript of kerrys testimony? do you even have an idea of what im talking about?
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Yeah right, the guy who avoided service questioning the guy who did serve, i'de like to see that too.
wait i saw youre from boston. no further explanation necessary.
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Originally posted by Sandman
You make it sound as if he submitted the picture himself.
why do you think that picture is there?
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whats the deal here? the guy was a fully rated fighter pilot right? thats a great deal of intensive training and a pretty high washout rate when you look at how many guys actually wind up in the cockpit of a fighter.
Fully rated? I hope you realize that he was pushed up the ranks because of who his father is. Not on his own merrit. Not even Bush can show proof of his full service record. Not sure myself, but how many other "fighter pilots" were given leave to work on a political campaign?
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Originally posted by anonymous
wait i saw youre from boston. no further explanation necessary.
Hey! I'm from Boston! We aren't all barking moonbats!
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Originally posted by parker00
Fully rated? I hope you realize that he was pushed up the ranks because of who his father is. Not on his own merrit. Not even Bush can show proof of his full service record. Not sure myself, but how many other "fighter pilots" were given leave to work on a political campaign?
Could you show me the documents showing Bush didn't earn his promotions?
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Originally posted by parker00
Fully rated? I hope you realize that he was pushed up the ranks because of who his father is. Not on his own merrit. Not even Bush can show proof of his full service record. Not sure myself, but how many other "fighter pilots" were given leave to work on a political campaign?
you couldnt buy a clue of a potato in thailand with seven thousand in cash. no one makes it as a fighter pilot or in any other combat job because of who is daddy is. and from what i understand at the time that bush was in the training pipeline his dad was just another politician. "pushed up the ranks"? its not like he ever attained a high rank. he was a fighter pilot and thats never been a easy job title to earn. you really think that fighter pilot instructors can be influenced by congressman or senator? you have no idea of what you are talking about.
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Could you show me the documents showing Bush didn't earn his promotions?
I wish I could, but it seems that the military can't even find all of his records
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Originally posted by parker00
I wish I could, but it seems that the military can't even find all of his records
Really? Which ones are they missing?
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This was taken from one of many newpapers that have talked about his military records. Would not be hard to find if you looked.
The missing military records include a bevy of forms, logs, pay stubs and evaluations from Mr. Bush's time in the Texas Air National Guard. CBS News' evaluation of all the documents released by the White House confirms that the records have several holes
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Originally posted by parker00
This was taken from one of many newpapers that have talked about his military records. Would not be hard to find if you looked.
Oh, you mean those records (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/23/bush.military.records.reut/) that were thought destroyed, but were actually misfiled 30 years ago then found?
Anything else?
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you really think that fighter pilot instructors can be influenced by congressman or senator? you have no idea of what you are talking about.
My bad, your correct. No one in the military could be influenced by someone who once was the head of the CIA. Sorry for the mistake.
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The "missing" records were in fact found, and a lot quicker than Billarys missing files, so please try and keep up with the news.
WASHINGTON - The Pentagon (news - web sites) on Friday released payroll records from President Bush (news - web sites)'s 1972 service in the Alabama National Guard, saying its earlier contention the records were destroyed was an "inadvertent oversight."
The records cover July through September of 1972, when Bush was working as a campaign volunteer in Alabama. The future president had been transferred from the Texas Air National Guard to the Alabama unit so he could stay in Alabama.
The release came days before Democrats began their national convention in Boston to officially nominate Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites) as their presidential candidate.
Democrats have sought to contrast Bush's National Guard service with Kerry's Vietnam War record. Kerry enlisted in the Navy, volunteered for combat in Vietnam and earned several medals including a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts. After returning from Vietnam, Kerry became a prominent anti-war activist.
The Associated Press had asked a federal judge July 16 to order the Pentagon to quickly turn over a copy of the pay records. The AP had sued under the Freedom of Information Act to obtain the records from a state library records center in Texas.
Records of Bush's National Guard service released previously did not conclusively show whether Bush fulfilled his service requirements in 1972 and 1973, during the Vietnam War.
Bush had transferred to an Alabama National Guard unit while he worked on the U.S. Senate campaign of Republican Winton Blount, a family friend.
The Pentagon had said that the payroll records for that time period had been inadvertently destroyed.
In a letter to The Associated Press Friday, Pentagon freedom of information chief C.Y. Talbot said the records couldn't be found earlier because officials were using the wrong index number.
The Associated Press was evaluating the documents.
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WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Some of President Bush's missing Air National Guard records during the Vietnam War years, previously said to be destroyed, turned up on Friday but offered no new evidence to dispel charges by Democrats that he was absent without leave.
Well, from the first word (some) would tell me they are still missing records. "no new evidence" dosn't seem to help your argument.
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Originally posted by parker00
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Some of President Bush's missing Air National Guard records during the Vietnam War years, previously said to be destroyed, turned up on Friday but offered no new evidence to dispel charges by Democrats that he was absent without leave.
Well, from the first word (some) would tell me they are still missing records. "no new evidence" dosn't seem to help your argument.
Help my argument? Heh, how quickly we forget. You're trying to prove, unsuccessfully, that Bush didn't earn his position in the NG. You've yet to do that.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Yeah right, the guy who avoided service questioning the guy who did serve, i'de like to see that too.
You should try your "Guard guys don't really serve" argument at a bar with some Guard guys as the audience.
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Originally posted by Toad
You should try your "Guard guys don't really serve" argument at a bar with some Guard guys as the audience.
I already tried to get him to do that.
He was a no show.
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Originally posted by parker00
Fully rated?
Did you go through USAF pilot training? Did you then make it through single-engine fighter school?
Do you have any clue what it takes to go from a non-flying civilian to being a mission-ready single seat fighter pilot?
I'm guessing the answer to all of those is a resounding "NO", judging by your posts here.
I post a two-syllable summation of my estimate of your intelligence except that I work real hard not to insult people on the BBS.
Are you going to the Con though?
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Originally posted by parker00
My bad, your correct. No one in the military could be influenced by someone who once was the head of the CIA. Sorry for the mistake.
yeah right the dci is going to make a call to some usaf flight instructor to make sure his son makes it as a jet fighter pilot. really. happens all the time. maybe in your little conspiracy filled world but not in real world. and even if your la la land ideas were someone on the mark id say "check the timeline retard". bush was not dci until '75 or so. kind of late for him to influence his sons ability to make it as a fighter pilot. admit it dude youre just spewing what the extreme lefty propoganda officers are telling you to spew. no difference between you and the robots who marched their countrymen to death camps in asia because the "popular revolutionary mouthpiece" told them it was "the truth".
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Originally posted by Toad
Did you go through USAF pilot training? Did you then make it through single-engine fighter school?
Do you have any clue what it takes to go from a non-flying civilian to being a mission-ready single seat fighter pilot?
I'm guessing the answer to all of those is a resounding "NO", judging by your posts here.
I post a two-syllable summation of my estimate of your intelligence except that I work real hard not to insult people on the BBS.
Are you going to the Con though?
toad you dont understand dude. some college soph working at moveon.org says that bush was a deserter. how could this not now be the truth? :)
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Originally posted by parker00
My bad, your correct. No one in the military could be influenced by someone who once was the head of the CIA. Sorry for the mistake.
Think your timeline is a little off.
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You are absolutely right.
I suppose I've gone to a few too many peacetime services where a flight helmet and a pair of flying gloves were the central exhibit.
Because, of course, there was nothing left to put in a coffin.
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Originally posted by Lizking
Sixpence, tell that to all the guys in the NG. He did serve, you just will not accept the fact.
Just some National Guard facts...
In the middle of the Tet offensive, 11 Air Guard squadrons were called up on Jan. 28. Three additional Air Guard squadrons and all the Army Guard units mobilized were activated May 13.
The 116th Engineer Battalion, Idaho Army Guard, spent 11 months in Vietnam and returned home in September 1969.
Nearly 25,000 National Guardsmen served in Vietnam.
100 Guardsmen's names are etched on a black granite wall.
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Yah, well, shure... but, like, NONE of those guys actually SERVED, yanno?
They were like... Guard.... and got in because their daddies had pull and all. They weren't.. yanno... REAL SOLDIERS.
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Originally posted by Lizking
Sixpence, tell that to all the guys in the NG. He did serve, you just will not accept the fact.
Why, did they all campaign for politicians in Alabama too? I say that with regard to someone who said Kerry was the lifetime politician and Bush was not.
Kerry did serve in vietnam, Bush did not, and I do accept that fact.
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I know a lot of VietNam era military guys that went to VietNam and I know a lot of VietNam era military guys that did not.
Is either group somehow more honorable or "worthy" than the other?
Do explain.
Sidenote: AFAIK, max troop strength in VN was less than 600,000. There were millions of US military at that time. Were only the ones actually in VN "worthy"?
What's your point?
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Did I say he was not worthy? No. But I don't think someone who avoided the conflict is worthy of questioning the service of someone who did not.
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Upon what evidence do you base your statement that he "avoided the conflict"?
Go ahead, this should be good.
You better have something better than "well, he joined the Guard!"
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Yeah, and I can't prove saddam had WMD either, but I believe it. Look, I am not calling him a bad person for it, alot of that kind of stuff went on, but someone in that position is not worthy of questioning the service of someone who actually served there, who actually considered it his duty to serve there.
I don't question a vietnam vet's service, I work with alot of them. I don't question if any medals they have are legit, or do I question their patriotism.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Did I say he was not worthy? No. But I don't think someone who avoided the conflict is worthy of questioning the service of someone who did not.
when did bush ever question kerrys service?
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Originally posted by Sixpence
who actually considered it his duty to serve there.
Kerry, Bush, and Vietnam (http://andrewolmsted.com/MT/archives/000565.html)
Yet I can't help thinking that aside from Kerry's actual actions in Vietnam, the two men don't have as much separating them as people think.
Both tried to avoid service in Vietnam, Bush through the Guard, Kerry through the Navy. Kerry deserves credit for still joining the active force, but it's clear he wasn't champing at the bit to get into the war, he just wanted to do his duty and go home. He did what he could to avoid getting any closer to Vietnam than necessary, and he left as quickly as he could. When he got home, both Kerry and Bush were able to get out of their obligations early to pursue personal business.
Again, Kerry deserves great credit for what he actually did while he was in Vietnam; my point is only that the image he now cultivates of the marked contrast to President Bush is, at least in part, an accident.
Had Kerry gotten what he wanted, he would never have had to fire a shot in anger, and the only difference between his service and President Bush's would be that Kerry did serve on active duty while Bush was a reservist.
Are the two equivalent? No. But I the evidence seems to show that the two men's attempts to avoid Vietnam were more similar than people would now believe.
Originally posted by Sixpence
I don't question a vietnam vet's service, I work with alot of them. I don't question if any medals they have are legit, or do I question their patriotism.
Clearly, however, you question the patriotism of some who served in the military during the VietNam era but did not actually fight in VietNam.
2,100,000 served in Vietnam in the years from 1964-73. This was exactly 24% of the 8444000 who were in the active Armed Forces during those years.
So, what do you think of the 76% of the active Armed Forces that did not serve in Vietnam from '64-'73?
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Good article.
"President Bush is on record admitting that he had no real desire to go to Vietnam."
"John Kerry never sought to avoid active military duty. The son of a military pilot, Kerry did actively seek to serve his country"
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Better read it all, Six. There isn't much difference even if you accept the Guard argument.
Kerry tried the 12 month derferment route and IIRC, he said somewhere that went Navy specifically to avoid Army ground combat in VN. Kinda like "hiding in the Guard", eh?
Further, you aren't answering the second part, are you? Big suprise.
Remind me, have you ever served in the military at all?
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Originally posted by Toad
Remind me, have you ever served in the military at all?
Lol, saw that coming. I guess I am alot like bush , huh?
http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/3671
So, what do you think of the 76% of the active Armed Forces that did not serve in Vietnam from '64-'73?
I think if they went awol they would have to answer for it.
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They were like... Guard.... and got in because their daddies had pull and all. They weren't.. yanno... REAL SOLDIERS.
If your suggesting I said anything about the Guard then you are mistaken. I have only been talking about Bush.
I don't believe that I need to serve in the Air Force before I can say that a father with political power can influence someone else in the military. I was off on my timeline before, he was just a congressmen then US ambassador to the U.N. during his son's time in the airforce. By the way, I am not just some conspiracy theorist who believes he is trying to take over the world, just that you made it sound like he had to be the best to become a pilot. In which I would agree that you need to be the best but I hate to tell you, even bush has said he wasn't the greatest in school and his grades show that. So how else would he of got in? Not only was father and grandfather in politics, his dad received the "Distinguished Flying Cross for Bravery" medal. Sorry if you can't see any connections. Now Bush may of had to work to stay in, but I strongly believe he was given the chance because of his father.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Lol, saw that coming. I guess I am alot like bush , huh?...
...I think if they went awol they would have to answer for it.
No, I'd say pretty much like Clinton. Not like Bush at all; see Bush served.
Of course, just like the "stolen election" you've got nothing to show that he went AWOL. His honorable discharge is in fact proof that he did not. AWOL people don't get an honorable discharge.
Period.
However, you should get an award for another shining example of a "liberal dodge".
"If you can't answer honestly without embarassing yourself, change the subject."
WTG.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Good article.
"President Bush is on record admitting that he had no real desire to go to Vietnam."
"John Kerry never sought to avoid active military duty. The son of a military pilot, Kerry did actively seek to serve his country"
"I didn't really want to get involved in the war," he later would tell the Boston Globe. "When I signed up for the swift boats, they had very little to do with the war. They were engaged in coastal patrolling, and that's what I thought I was going to do."
Via Boston Globe (http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37453)
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AWOL----absent for 30 days or less.
http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/3671
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Originally posted by Martlet
Via Boston Globe (http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37453)
You sure it wasn't the Herald?
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Originally posted by Sixpence
AWOL----absent for 30 days or less.
http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/3671
Absent Without Leave, you meant.
IE: Without permission.
You have documents that show he didn't have permission?
Originally posted by Sixpence
You sure it wasn't the Herald?
I'm sorry, I forgot you can't read.
Nope, it specifically says "Boston Globe".
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This is what you said.
Originally posted by parker00
Fully rated? I hope you realize that he was pushed up the ranks because of who his father is. Not on his own merrit. Not even Bush can show proof of his full service record. Not sure myself, but how many other "fighter pilots" were given leave to work on a political campaign?
Here's the problem:
He WAS fully rated. Your daddy can't do that for you in a single-seat fighter. You have to do that all by yourself. On your own merit.
As for "given leave", that's been beaten to death here too. You are aware his unit was transitioning right? Maybe you're not; read the history of the unit and it'll help you.
But bottom line is that your post is BS. He was fully rated and did it himself on his own merit.
Was their "political pull" on his getting into the unit? Wouldn't surprise me at all. But you're daddy can't pass your checkrides in UPT, RTU or in the unit for you.
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AWOL and Dereliction of Duty
By WILLIAM WILGUS
Although I'm sure he didn't realize he was doing so, White House Communications Director Dan Bartlett has apparently confirmed that Bush was indeed AWOL---Absent Without Leave---during part of the period he obligated himself to serve in the Air National Guard. (Uniform Code of Military Justice 866. ART. 86. Absence Without Leave)
In his February 14, 2004 Houston Chronicle article `Some light shed on Bush Guard service', Michael Hedges wrote:
Bartlett said that Bush skipped the [Flight Medical] examination simply because he'd decided to go to Alabama as part of the political campaign and wouldn't be serving as a pilot there.
Since Bush would have been ordered---in the full military sense of the term---to present himself for that examination at a specified place, date, and time and failed to do so, Bush is guilty of being AWOL. It does not matter why Bush didn't show up, only that he did not.
That he apparently never faced any possibility of punishment for this infraction of the Military Code of Uniform Justice (UCMJ) can be due to only three things: an administrative failure, political influence, or dereliction of duty on part of the person or persons whose duty it would have been to institute such proceedings. Dereliction of duty, or failure to perform a required task, is also an infraction of the UCMJ and it's unlikely that anyone would have `decided' on his own to over-look the matter. Since the military has set procedures to follow for virtually every situation (and certainly the failure of someone to show up for an examination), it's very unlikely that an administrative failure occurred. That leaves political influence as the most likely reason Bush apparently was never brought up on charges under the UCMJ for being AWOL from the flight medical.
The big `flap' about Bush being AWOL is centered on his going to Alabama, and as a result absenting himself from his Guard duties in Texas. It's been written in at least one news article that Bush did receive permission to go to Alabama, but only months after the fact of his move. If that is truly the case, Bush was indeed AWOL during those months he was in Alabama prior to receiving that permission. The three possible reasons he apparently was not charged with being AWOL during that time are those I've mentioned in the preceding paragraph.
It's apparent that Bush is also guilty of Dereliction of Duty (892. Art. 92. Failure to Obey and Order or Regulation). Bush was assigned to `duties involving flight', specifically as a F-102 Fighter Pilot. That being the case, Bush would have been required to maintain a status of `qualified' as an F-102 pilot. To do so, he would have not only been required to pass an annual Flight Physical, but also `maintain proficiency' in the type and model aircraft he flew. That is accomplished by actually flying the aircraft. He also would have been required to keep his knowledge of the aircraft---including operating procedures and equipment changes---up to date. That's primarily accomplished by reading `notices' on the aircraft, but `presentations' where pilots must be present are also used---a staple for the National Guard's `Week-End Warriors'. Both pilot requirements are referred to collectively as `staying current'.
In any military organization, one simply does not decide to stop doing something. To `legally' stop flying for any period of time, Bush would have had to ask permission to do so. Since he apparently did not so ask, the charge of Dereliction of Duty should also be added to those of being AWOL.
William Wilgus served in the U.S. Navy from October 28, 1965 until November 4, 1974 and was honorably discharged. Assigned to duties involving flight, he logged 5,000 hours of flight time in Navy aircraft. Now retired, his hobbies are a web site called The Public Cause Network and digital photography. William also enjoys reading and listening to music---especially pre-1950s American Jazz. His e-mail address is Director@ThePublicCause.Net
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Six, your repetitive posting of the TomPaine site doesn't prove Bush as AWOL. Give it up. There's no proof.
But you can quit your "liberal dodge" anytime you like and answer that question.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
AWOL and Dereliction of Duty
By WILLIAM WILGUS
Although I'm sure he didn't realize he was doing so, White House Communications Director Dan Bartlett has apparently confirmed that Bush was indeed AWOL---Absent Without Leave---during part of the period he obligated himself to serve in the Air National Guard. (Uniform Code of Military Justice 866. ART. 86. Absence Without Leave)
In his February 14, 2004 Houston Chronicle article `Some light shed on Bush Guard service', Michael Hedges wrote:
Bartlett said that Bush skipped the [Flight Medical] examination simply because he'd decided to go to Alabama as part of the political campaign and wouldn't be serving as a pilot there.
Since Bush would have been ordered---in the full military sense of the term---to present himself for that examination at a specified place, date, and time and failed to do so, Bush is guilty of being AWOL. It does not matter why Bush didn't show up, only that he did not.
That he apparently never faced any possibility of punishment for this infraction of the Military Code of Uniform Justice (UCMJ) can be due to only three things: an administrative failure, political influence, or dereliction of duty on part of the person or persons whose duty it would have been to institute such proceedings. Dereliction of duty, or failure to perform a required task, is also an infraction of the UCMJ and it's unlikely that anyone would have `decided' on his own to over-look the matter. Since the military has set procedures to follow for virtually every situation (and certainly the failure of someone to show up for an examination), it's very unlikely that an administrative failure occurred. That leaves political influence as the most likely reason Bush apparently was never brought up on charges under the UCMJ for being AWOL from the flight medical.
The big `flap' about Bush being AWOL is centered on his going to Alabama, and as a result absenting himself from his Guard duties in Texas. It's been written in at least one news article that Bush did receive permission to go to Alabama, but only months after the fact of his move. If that is truly the case, Bush was indeed AWOL during those months he was in Alabama prior to receiving that permission. The three possible reasons he apparently was not charged with being AWOL during that time are those I've mentioned in the preceding paragraph.
It's apparent that Bush is also guilty of Dereliction of Duty (892. Art. 92. Failure to Obey and Order or Regulation). Bush was assigned to `duties involving flight', specifically as a F-102 Fighter Pilot. That being the case, Bush would have been required to maintain a status of `qualified' as an F-102 pilot. To do so, he would have not only been required to pass an annual Flight Physical, but also `maintain proficiency' in the type and model aircraft he flew. That is accomplished by actually flying the aircraft. He also would have been required to keep his knowledge of the aircraft---including operating procedures and equipment changes---up to date. That's primarily accomplished by reading `notices' on the aircraft, but `presentations' where pilots must be present are also used---a staple for the National Guard's `Week-End Warriors'. Both pilot requirements are referred to collectively as `staying current'.
In any military organization, one simply does not decide to stop doing something. To `legally' stop flying for any period of time, Bush would have had to ask permission to do so. Since he apparently did not so ask, the charge of Dereliction of Duty should also be added to those of being AWOL.
William Wilgus served in the U.S. Navy from October 28, 1965 until November 4, 1974 and was honorably discharged. Assigned to duties involving flight, he logged 5,000 hours of flight time in Navy aircraft. Now retired, his hobbies are a web site called The Public Cause Network and digital photography. William also enjoys reading and listening to music---especially pre-1950s American Jazz. His e-mail address is Director@ThePublicCause.Net
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Originally posted by Toad
Six, your repetitive posting of the TomPaine site doesn't prove Bush as AWOL. Give it up. There's no proof.
But you can quit your "liberal dodge" anytime you like and answer that question.
That's his procedure. He can't prove his argument, so he dodges you to death. You've argued with enough liberals to realize they act like 3rd graders when their position stops holding up. Have you ever gotten facts from any of them?
Rarely. just cut n paste and cut n paste.
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Originally posted by Toad
Six, your repetitive posting of the TomPaine site doesn't prove Bush as AWOL. Give it up. There's no proof.
Cartmann: "I am telling you I was not abducted by aliens!"
Kyle: "Dude, there's a sixty foot antenna sticking out of your prettythang!"
Cartmann: "I don't know what you're talking about"
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Research "Honorable Dischage".
Then come back and tell me it's possible to get an Honorable Discharge after you've been charged and proven guilty of being AWOL.
Go ahead. Show that.
Bottom line, despite all your non-official sources, the USAF gave him an Honorable.
So, you're just wrong.
Then, back on track:
Clearly, however, you question the patriotism of some who served in the military during the VietNam era but did not actually fight in VietNam.
2,100,000 served in Vietnam in the years from 1964-73. This was exactly 24% of the 8444000 who were in the active Armed Forces during those years.
So, what do you think of the 76% of the active Armed Forces that did not serve in Vietnam from '64-'73?
Do you question if any medals they have are legit, or do you question their patriotism?
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Originally posted by Toad
Research "Honorable Dischage".
Is that french?
So, what do you think of the 76% of the active Armed Forces that did not serve in Vietnam from '64-'73?
or do you question their patriotism?
If they were AWOL I would.
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OK, all done with ya Six.
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Originally posted by Toad
OK, all done with ya Six.
Aw, cmon, I didn't call you a liberal or neonazi or anything. Just a friendly rib on the spelling(I thought it was clever)
Look, you were positive Iraq had WMD. So sure you wagered on it. Now I am with ya, I still believe that saddam was a threat to distribute WMD, among other things. Now we can't prove this, can we? Of course not, but that does not change what we think, we know better.
Now from what I have read and posted, I can come up with much more to make me believe that Bush was AWOL than I can that Iraq had WMD. Political influence can accomplish alot, including an honorable discharge. When I was 19, I had friends in the NG, and if they did not show up when and where they were supposed to be, they were in trouble, big trouble. It is quite obvious that some things were overlooked while Bush was serving.
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The question is, though, assuming you are correct, does that make him any less of a man? Any less qualified to be POTUS?
You can make arguments tarnishing Kerry's service, too, but in all honesty I don't think they play a part in his bid for the Presidency.
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http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0185.shtml
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0185.shtml
FUNKED1,
I'm sorry but being as I am an intellectually superior (my 'Stopping Israeli Aggression - Why Hezbollah are the Good Guys' Professor at U.C. Berkely told me I was after my final essay passed the 'Political Officer's Review') member of the extreme left I'm just going to have to take the opinion of the 23 year old 'Bush/AWOL' expert (you know - the guy who still lives with Mom, etc.) at the local Starbucks over that right wing propoganda posted on aerospaceweb.org.
Regards,
Mike/wulfie
:)
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0185.shtml
good link :)
(plus I've seen the the 1st time a plane uglier than the F102 ... the TF 102 :p)
I loved the end,it should become the mantra of lot of people here.
Nevertheless, the important point to remember is that one can find good and bad elements in virtually anyone's military history. If the military service of both George W. Bush and John Kerry is to be an issue during the upcoming election, then both records ought to be treated with balance and fairness rather than be subjected to double standards.
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It's simply clear that you are unable/unwilling to hold up your end in the give and take of civil debate. Can't waste any more time on you, sorry.
Funk, excellent link. First time I've seen all that info posted in a single cogent article.
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Some thoughts to add to the snopes link.
http://www.swiftvets.com
The Kerry campaign featured the photograph in an advertisement released in May titled Lifetime. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth contacted surviving members of this group to find out how many actually support John Kerry, and discovered that of 19 Swift boat skippers pictured other than Kerry, 11 consider him unfit, 4 are neutral, two have died, and 2 are working with the Kerry campaign. Four other officers were not present for the photo session; all four oppose Kerry.
Only 2 of John Kerry's 23 fellow Swift boat commanders from Coastal Division 11 support his candidacy today.
Most seem to be resentful about Kerry's Vietnam Vets Against the War activities.
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So what did Bush do 30 years ago? (other than boozing and drunk driving).
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdmv1.html
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Originally posted by Staga
So what did Bush do 30 years ago? (other than boozing and drunk driving).
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdmv1.html
Flew fighter planes, for one. I'm surprised you don't know. For all the yapping you do, I'm surprised you have to ask that question. You should take some time to learn about the man that's going to lead our country for the next 4 years.
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Did he ever flew intoxicated?
Heh guess in USA everything is possible; Even convicted drunk driver can become a president :aok
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Originally posted by GScholz
Does that have anything to do with Kerry deserving the medals he got? ... Didn't think so.
Edit: btw. learn to post a link properly.
Sorry I confused you with the link problems.
I was just showing a different point of view as to a candidates history. Do with it what you like. If it disagrees with your preconceived notions, you are free to disregard.
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Originally posted by anonymous
wait i saw youre from boston. no further explanation necessary.
From a classic T-shirt back in the days of Watergate (if you can remember back to that election then the joke is more apparent):
"*Expletive Deleted* you. I'm from Boston."
I doubt Bush or Chaney are much looking forward to the debates. I'd say why, but then I'd get called the L-word.
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It's a bit funny to see how interested some people are about Kerry's service records in Vietnam but no'one of those are interested to talk about Bush's "records"...
oh well :)
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Originally posted by Staga
It's a bit funny to see how interested some people are about Kerry's service records in Vietnam but no'one of those are interested to talk about Bush's "records"...
oh well :)
bush isnt making being a fighter pilot a reason to reelect him. kerry is saying that his heroic deeds in vn make him more fit to be cic. your comment about bushs "records" show what a robot you are. no controversy to anyone who actually bothered to check. but who am i to take away your conspiracys?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Kerry was visiting Viet Nam in 1991 as the Chair of the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs.
He has my vote......
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Stardga this thread isn't about military service, Bush's or Kerry's.
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Originally posted by anonymous
bush isnt making being a fighter pilot a reason to reelect him. kerry is saying that his heroic deeds in vn make him more fit to be cic. your comment about bushs "records" show what a robot you are. no controversy to anyone who actually bothered to check. but who am i to take away your conspiracys?
Course not. Bush is not a combat veteran where as Kerry is. You can bicker all you want about his medals and accuse his superiors of giving them away but its hard to refute his 15 kills of the enemy. I'll tell you one thing, if the Airforce spent all that time training me to fly jets, I can guarantee you I would go out of my way to make sure I saw some action.
:lol
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MrCoffee,
He has more then the one kill of the wounded VC on the beach?
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I read somewhere that his official military record shows 15 confirmed enemy kills.
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
I read somewhere that his official military record shows 15 confirmed enemy kills.
Were the other 14 executing wounded enemy too?
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
Course not. Bush is not a combat veteran where as Kerry is. You can bicker all you want about his medals and accuse his superiors of giving them away but its hard to refute his 15 kills of the enemy. I'll tell you one thing, if the Airforce spent all that time training me to fly jets, I can guarantee you I would go out of my way to make sure I saw some action.
:lol
im not bickering about his medals. i dont like how he lied about the military after vn. but bushs military service is not anything but honorable. have you ever been in combat unit in military?
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Make that 20 according to to this. Seventh paragraph down.
http://pmstyle.blogspot.com/archives/2004_04_01_pmstyle_archive.html
His military records (http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html)
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Originally posted by anonymous
im not bickering about his medals. i dont like how he lied about the military after vn. but bushs military service is not anything but honorable. have you ever been in combat unit in military?
Those events and facts were never proven according to what I have read. I need to research that more because I dont know enough about that. Anybody?
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Kerry is the real deal as war hero. I have read all of his service records, and he did the deal. That doesn't mean anything else, there are heros in war that rot in jail in peace, all the way up to being hero's throughout life. Kerry's problem is not even that he opposed the war, it is just the manner in which he did so (for me).
He is a true-blue Vietnam War Hero, though, don't disrespect him in that matter.
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Originally posted by anonymous
have you ever been in combat unit in military?
No. My only combat experience is video games.
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
I'll tell you one thing, if the Airforce spent all that time training me to fly jets, I can guarantee you I would go out of my way to make sure I saw some action.
:lol
Which goes to show that you really don't know anyting about how they assigned aircraft in that era.
In my class of 55 there were 7 fighter assignments.
What would you have done if you didn't get one?
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Originally posted by Lizking
You won't see Hitler's picture in any display devoted to things that helped the allies win the War, Nash.
sad, because he should be listed as the number one cause that helped win the war. Had he not hogtied the military with his stupid commands and edicts, we would ALL be looking at much different geography today.
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Well, Duh, but his intent was to win the war, not help us lose it.
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Public records. Readily available on the internet. Look them up yourself.
Bush scored the lowest possible on the pilot aptitude test, a 25 out of 100. He was then jumped over 500 other applicants already on the waiting list to get into the Texas Air National Guard - all of whom scored higher than he did. More than one member of the Texas government at the time has confirmed this to be the case. The pressure came from the White House on behalf of then U.S. Representative from Texas, George H.W. Bush. The head of the Texas Guard at the time, the one responsible for approving Bush's entry into the Guard, was later promoted to head of the entire National Guard, during guess whose administration? That's right, George H.W. Bush. Those are facts. Indisputable.
Not long after receiving his wings, Bush was grounded from flying for "failing to achieve" a required physical examination. Whether he failed to achieve it because he failed the exam or failed to show up for the exam is not recorded in the publicly available records. His flight suspension is available, however. He never regained his flight status. Coincidentally, the physical he failed to achieve was the first set of tests in which drug testing was a required element. What a coincidence.
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Oh, and while I'm thinking about it. The picture that opened this thread of Kerry in Vietnam was when he went with a delegation to negotiate the search for MIAs. Another member of that delegation was Jhn McCain. Oddly, I don't see any of the boneheaded posts above which were making stupid assumptions about that pic also deriding McCain for being in the same place at the same time for the same reason as Kerry. I wonder why?
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sceadu.......mccain
You are right no one is saying anything adout mccain,you ask why/three reasons
1. mccain not running on ticket
2. big differance between all those years being a pow and suffering all the torture he did.and three litte cuts.
3. he didnt come back and stab the military in the back with his votes.
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Weazel, is McCain's picture in the museum? If so, which section?
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Originally posted by Sceadu
Public records. Readily available on the internet. Look them up yourself.
Bush scored the lowest possible on the pilot aptitude test, a 25 out of 100. He was then jumped over 500 other applicants already on the waiting list to get into the Texas Air National Guard - all of whom scored higher than he did. More than one member of the Texas government at the time has confirmed this to be the case. The pressure came from the White House on behalf of then U.S. Representative from Texas, George H.W. Bush. The head of the Texas Guard at the time, the one responsible for approving Bush's entry into the Guard, was later promoted to head of the entire National Guard, during guess whose administration? That's right, George H.W. Bush. Those are facts. Indisputable.
Not long after receiving his wings, Bush was grounded from flying for "failing to achieve" a required physical examination. Whether he failed to achieve it because he failed the exam or failed to show up for the exam is not recorded in the publicly available records. His flight suspension is available, however. He never regained his flight status. Coincidentally, the physical he failed to achieve was the first set of tests in which drug testing was a required element. What a coincidence.
bullsheet. public record of this on internet then tell me where. not like it wouldnt be available on moveon.org website if it was true. theyd have scan of all documents you claim exist. go back to selling bridges in florida.
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Originally posted by Sceadu
Public records. Readily available on the internet. Look them up yourself.
Bush scored the lowest possible on the pilot aptitude test, a 25 out of 100. He was then jumped over 500 other applicants already on the waiting list to get into the Texas Air National Guard - all of whom scored higher than he did. More than one member of the Texas government at the time has confirmed this to be the case. The pressure came from the White House on behalf of then U.S. Representative from Texas, George H.W. Bush. The head of the Texas Guard at the time, the one responsible for approving Bush's entry into the Guard, was later promoted to head of the entire National Guard, during guess whose administration? That's right, George H.W. Bush. Those are facts. Indisputable.
Not long after receiving his wings, Bush was grounded from flying for "failing to achieve" a required physical examination. Whether he failed to achieve it because he failed the exam or failed to show up for the exam is not recorded in the publicly available records. His flight suspension is available, however. He never regained his flight status. Coincidentally, the physical he failed to achieve was the first set of tests in which drug testing was a required element. What a coincidence.
also your story of being grounded shortly after earning wings is direct opposite of investigation results of two major newspaper. read webpage that funked1 listed.
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Originally posted by Sceadu
Public records. Readily available on the internet. Look them up yourself.
Bush scored the lowest possible on the pilot aptitude test, a 25 out of 100. He was then jumped over 500 other applicants already on the waiting list to get into the Texas Air National Guard - all of whom scored higher than he did. More than one member of the Texas government at the time has confirmed this to be the case. The pressure came from the White House on behalf of then U.S. Representative from Texas, George H.W. Bush. The head of the Texas Guard at the time, the one responsible for approving Bush's entry into the Guard, was later promoted to head of the entire National Guard, during guess whose administration? That's right, George H.W. Bush. Those are facts. Indisputable.
Not long after receiving his wings, Bush was grounded from flying for "failing to achieve" a required physical examination. Whether he failed to achieve it because he failed the exam or failed to show up for the exam is not recorded in the publicly available records. His flight suspension is available, however. He never regained his flight status. Coincidentally, the physical he failed to achieve was the first set of tests in which drug testing was a required element. What a coincidence.
man the more i think about it you are so full of sheet. "scored the lowest possible on the pilot aptitude test, a 25 out of 100" is classic extreme lefty elitist statement. bush graduate from yale but he dont go to same coffee shop or talk as nice so no way he can be intelligent. explain to me if he scored lowest but then selected for jet fighter how does this work? the white house dont pressure anyone to get a kid into the guard. its beneath them. especially if only a rep from texas wants it to happen. but its a lie and insult to even imply that daddy bush who is combat veteran and pilot would ever do such a thing. you expect other ninety nine percent of world to swallow your lies that bush dad and son have no honor? show me quotes of texas politician stating that whitehouse "pressured" texas guard to let bush jr in. i dont believe it for a second.
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Originally posted by demaw1
sceadu.......mccain
You are right no one is saying anything adout mccain,you ask why/three reasons
1. mccain not running on ticket
2. big differance between all those years being a pow and suffering all the torture he did.and three litte cuts.
3. he didnt come back and stab the military in the back with his votes.
votes how about his lying testimony before govt? about war crimes. how about his knowingly bringing others to testify on "war crimes" when these scum presented as combat veteran of vn but kerry know they have never been in military. how do you "recant" testimony that is supposedly your own eyewitness accounts and not be considered a liar? what did he wake up and realize all war crimes he witness are just a dream? :)
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Originally posted by Sceadu
Oh, and while I'm thinking about it. The picture that opened this thread of Kerry in Vietnam was when he went with a delegation to negotiate the search for MIAs. Another member of that delegation was Jhn McCain. Oddly, I don't see any of the boneheaded posts above which were making stupid assumptions about that pic also deriding McCain for being in the same place at the same time for the same reason as Kerry. I wonder why?
Welcome back Weazel!
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I know I'll get called the L-word for my views, but what the hell ...
Kerry showed a lot of balls - coming back from his tour and going in front of the senate - a nobody, basically - and telling them they were squealing up the war. He *could* have done what a lot of other people were doing - become a radical and blow crap up - or threaten to. I was a teenager then (in Boston) and vividly remember bomb scares about every other month in Jr. High and High School. No, he went into politics and tried to make things better from the inside.
I really don't think he even considered the "stabbing the military in the back" angle *at that time* ... he wanted to get the people he served with home before any more died. It was a different time in the 60's and early 70's - very, very different. Juding his actions then by today's more antiseptic standards is not quite fair.
Same for W and his "tour" ... hell, Clinton got out of going too. I doubt Bush, or Bush Sr., even considered how it would look 40 years later - they just didn't want their kid dead and this situation of an "unpopular war" had never really come up in the nation's history. And, given how W was spending his youth, I really doubt anyone thought he'd get serious long enough to hold an office like President.
Frankly, both parties make me sick. They're so busy with their pissing contest that the country is going downhill. And it all seems like a big game to them - which is the most sickening thing of all. Like, dudes, Americans are dying still in Iraq - this is no damn game.
And whoever does win the election, the other party will do their damnedest to stop any legislation he tries to pass - so he looks bad - so he'll lose the next election - so their dingbat can win - so the first party can stop his legislation - so he looks bad - so that four years later they can win ... and on and on and on ... and we still have no national healthcare and the terror alert is stuck on megenta or puce or something or other ... and geezuz is this really what Ben Franklin had in mind?
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I know I'll get called the L-word for my views, but what the hell ...
Kerry showed a lot of balls - coming back from his tour and going in front of the senate - a nobody, basically - and telling them they were squealing up the war. He *could* have done what a lot of other people were doing - become a radical and blow crap up - or threaten to. I was a teenager then (in Boston) and vividly remember bomb scares about every other month in Jr. High and High School. No, he went into politics and tried to make things better from the inside.
I really don't think he even considered the "stabbing the military in the back" angle *at that time* ... he wanted to get the people he served with home before any more died. It was a different time in the 60's and early 70's - very, very different. Juding his actions then by today's more antiseptic standards is not quite fair.
Same for W and his "tour" ... hell, Clinton got out of going too. I doubt Bush, or Bush Sr., even considered how it would look 40 years later - they just didn't want their kid dead and this situation of an "unpopular war" had never really come up in the nation's history. And, given how W was spending his youth, I really doubt anyone thought he'd get serious long enough to hold an office like President.
Frankly, both parties make me sick. They're so busy with their pissing contest that the country is going downhill. And it all seems like a big game to them - which is the most sickening thing of all. Like, dudes, Americans are dying still in Iraq - this is no damn game.
And whoever does win the election, the other party will do their damnedest to stop any legislation he tries to pass - so he looks bad - so he'll lose the next election - so their dingbat can win - so the first party can stop his legislation - so he looks bad - so that four years later they can win ... and on and on and on ... and we still have no national healthcare and the terror alert is stuck on megenta or puce or something or other ... and geezuz is this really what Ben Franklin had in mind?
if bush jr was dead set on avoiding vn he would have chosen aircraft type not flying there or not flying in combat as opposed to type that was. bush sr was combat pilot second world war you saying he lacked moral character to point that he thought his son should not go in harms way like he did? kerry didnt tell anyone they were fediddleing up the war he lied and claimed us forces in vn were "equivalent of waffen ss".
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You get to choose your Airplane? Wow! Sign me up for a SR-71!
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A total of 14 or 15 F-102 fighters were lost in Vietnam. Three were shot down by anti-aircraft or small arms fire, one is believed to have been lost in air-to-air combat with a MiG-21, four were destroyed on the ground during Viet Cong attacks, and the remainder succumbed to training accidents.
I had heard the 102 was never deployed to VN. I heard wrong.
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0185.shtml
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Originally posted by anonymous
... bush sr was combat pilot second world war you saying he lacked moral character to point that he thought his son should not go in harms way like he did? kerry didnt tell anyone they were fediddleing up the war he lied and claimed us forces in vn were "equivalent of waffen ss".
That's all he said, huh?
Reviewing Bush Jr's pre-presidential years one could easily conclude that the acorn fell more than a stone's throw from the tree.
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Originally posted by Cabby44
Quote:
"He tried to save American lives. Not to help the commies."
Yeah, by declaring that he and his "band of brothers" committed "war crimes", "atrocities", etc., routinely as a "matter of policy". Yeah, that "saves American lives" and does not provide "aid and comfort" to the Commies. And i have green hair on my ass.
I saw and heard Kerry say it on TV. It's not Michael Moore-style propaganda bull****. It's a fact. You can make excuses for that P.O.S. all you like. The fact remains, Kerry is a worthless, lying, opportunistic demogogue of the lowest order who disgraced his country and the United States Armed Forces....
C.
Well, Kerry claims to have committed war crimes then he needs to be in a federal prison not in the White House.
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Amen!!!!
I kinda thought that Hanoi Jane had a better chance of being Kerry's running mate than Edwards...
:rofl
Still can't wait fer her to pass on... I hope I'm the 1st to pisss on her grave...
*insert Triump the Insulting Dawg*
Or Something to
POOP ON!!!!
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I have searched for Kerry claiming to have committed war crimes, and can not find anything to that effect.
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Hmmmm..... maybe a Google on History...
USA Congressional Hearings, Kerry, 1969-1975.
Or somewhere in there... BTW Kerry quickly pulled alot after he was heading to Boston...
*1 Lump or 2 in yer tea?*
Free America !
:eek:
***BTW LizKing... you haven't searched shiit....Have Mom or Daddy help you Son....***
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This was just the first google in the list:
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/sixties/HTML_docs/Resources/Primary/Manifestos/VVAW_Kerry_Senate.html
Try reading past the first few paragraphs this time and you'll find passages like:
Someone has to die so that President Nixon won't be, and these are his words, "the first President to lose a war."
and
In our opinion and from our experience, there is nothing in South Vietnam which could happen that realistically threatens the United States of America. And to attempt to justify the loss of one American life in Vietnam, Cambodia or Laos by linking such loss to the preservation of freedom, which those misfits supposedly abuse, is to us the height of criminal hypocrisy, and it is that kind of hypocrisy which we feel has torn this country apart.
Parts of the text are pretty harsh stuff, including a reference to Ghengis Khan. And if that's all you decide to see in his statement, then your impression of the man will be obviously stilted.
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I searched and read alot, including transcripts of his testimony and atricles, but he never said it. Show me a transcript where he did.
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Originally posted by Scatcat
Well, Kerry claims to have committed war crimes then he needs to be in a federal prison not in the White House.
What JK was refering to was the legality of killing civilians of all ages in a 'free fire zone', that's what we were ordered to do. However, it is against the Geneva Conventions to do so.
That is why he turned to activism to stop the war and the sending of draftees to become fodder for a g'ment who had put politics ahead of common sense while running a war.
Those who would have been drafted from '72 onward, if the war continued at the same pace, are the ones that should be thanking JK for his activism. I suspect that some members of this forum benifited from his actions by being able to live their life normaly, free of the burden of wondering whether the lottery would chose them for service in a war that wasn't winable at the time and then current politcal atmosphere.
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wintersoldier.com (http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=Testimony) is a pretty good site. It has complete transcripts of the senate hearings, with many links. Tons of raw info. The link is to the page with the hearing transcripts. More topics are linked on the left.
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Originally posted by MrLars
What JK was refering to was the legality of killing civilians of all ages in a 'free fire zone', that's what we were ordered to do. However, it is against the Geneva Conventions to do so.
That is why he turned to activism to stop the war and the sending of draftees to become fodder for a g'ment who had put politics ahead of common sense while running a war.
Those who would have been drafted from '72 onward, if the war continued at the same pace, are the ones that should be thanking JK for his activism. I suspect that some members of this forum benifited from his actions by being able to live their life normaly, free of the burden of wondering whether the lottery would chose them for service in a war that wasn't winable at the time and then current politcal atmosphere.
So you don't have a problem with him being an admitted war criminal?
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Originally posted by Martlet
So you don't have a problem with him being an admitted war criminal?
Put into the proper context, no. The real criminals are those who's policys forced the military to conduct unlawfull actions.
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docgonzo just so we clear i wouldnt really call myself republican. i dont dislike democrat. some democrat politician are great servants of america just like some republican politician are worthless scum. my beef is with extreme antiamerican left that has existed since communism. in american politics they hide in liberal democratic crowd. very small percent i am talking about but they largely avoid ever answer for action. clinton was one of my cic and although some bad things happen on his watch as cic he never solely responsible. pres versus pres arguments are stupid and uneducated. takes bad pres bad secdef bad members of armed services committee bad congress to do real damage. if kerry elected i do not think war on terror will go bad or world will end. cic only responsible for part of decision. cic only as good or as bad as advisors and career military and intel guys working for him and these guys dont have party affiliation they are professionals. i just dont like kerry because to me he did not keep the faith when he lied in testimony about us military. very serious to me i am retired us military. someone call you "l-word" so what?
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Originally posted by MrLars
Put into the proper context, no. The real criminals are those who's policys forced the military to conduct unlawfull actions.
Ahhhh, so the Germans who ran the concentration camps and the soldiers who marched the Jews into the showers were innocent?
What about the Japs that executed POWs and used them as bayonet practice. They were innocent too?
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Well I just wanted to know so I did more research and since I joked about Bush's NG service, its only fair to shed light on Kerrys post war activities. So it seems to me that he may have been caught up with the times and movements. I personaly do not feel that a veteran who took the lives of the enemy and civilians in free fire zones during operations constructed by his superiors would come home and purposly lie to an natrional audience. A man who later went to law school and became a prosecutor of all things. So here is an article (http://www.nationalreview.com/owens/owens200401270825.asp) that covers some facts and issues regarding this event. I've read a number of them and they are often right wing based but this article seems the most fair and honest of them without the excessive slandering. I've made up my mind after reading these and knowing a few things myself from the history that I have read. **** happens. Maybe some people lied and were motivated but I do not believe that Kerry lied.
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Anon,
A common theme in these discussions (not just here) is that someone who thinks Kerry is OK or thinks Bush isn't just has to be a pinko liberal democrat. Those who think the other way are quickly branded right-wing elitist republicans.
I'm from Boston and I would have sooner voted for Colonel Klink from Hogan's Heroes than Mike Dukakis (who was my city councilman when I was growing up in Brookline, no less). So I don't give a hoot in hell about "party lines" or regional bias either. If John McCain was running I'd vote for him over Kerry or W in an instant.
I look at Kerry's statement before senate as that of a guy who came back and felt he had to get someone in power to realize that what was going on over there wasn't a John Wayne movie. I didn't read his remarks about attrocities as an attack on the troops, but on the policies that put the troops into a situation where they had no choice but to respond to brutality with brutality.
That's just how I read it. I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or otherwise - that's just what I see in reading his words and in remembering what things were like back then.
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Personally, I can't stand Kerry, and would not vote for him for anything, but he did his duty and served well. He made an bellybutton of himself when he came home, but it seems to have worked for him. So pick on the Weasliy Senator all you want, but there is no call to argue or impugn his service.
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Originally posted by Martlet
Ahhhh, so the Germans who ran the concentration camps and the soldiers who marched the Jews into the showers were innocent?
What about the Japs that executed POWs and used them as bayonet practice. They were innocent too?
You're comparing three completely different things.
I don't believe Japan signed the Geneva Convention so they weren't bound by those accords as far as prisoner treatment (someone please correct me if I'm wrong ... I don't feel like googling now). Also it was part of their culture to never surrender - so they saw those who did as not worthy. You could accuse these guards of war crimes and they simply wouldn't understand why - back then, anyway.
The Holocaust (and, yes campers, it really did happen) was part of a national policy and carried out by subhuman scum. Those pukes should all be strung up as there's no way you can NOT know that genocide is wrong.
US troops in VN were put in a situation of fighting mostly a guerilla war. Against an enemy who'd been fighting invaders for generations - and didn't care what it took to win, or how long. Our troops knew what they were doing was unpopular at home, the casualty rate was high, and you never knew who was the enemy. So troops put into that situation - trying to survive - are prone to shoot first, or get out of hand when faced with savagery by the other side. Plus this is happening 20+ years later - the world grew up a whole lot during WW2.
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Originally posted by MrLars
Put into the proper context, no. The real criminals are those who's policys forced the military to conduct unlawfull actions.
So he was just following orders..
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Anon,
A common theme in these discussions (not just here) is that someone who thinks Kerry is OK or thinks Bush isn't just has to be a pinko liberal democrat. Those who think the other way are quickly branded right-wing elitist republicans.
I'm from Boston and I would have sooner voted for Colonel Klink from Hogan's Heroes than Mike Dukakis (who was my city councilman when I was growing up in Brookline, no less). So I don't give a hoot in hell about "party lines" or regional bias either. If John McCain was running I'd vote for him over Kerry or W in an instant.
I look at Kerry's statement before senate as that of a guy who came back and felt he had to get someone in power to realize that what was going on over there wasn't a John Wayne movie. I didn't read his remarks about attrocities as an attack on the troops, but on the policies that put the troops into a situation where they had no choice but to respond to brutality with brutality.
That's just how I read it. I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or otherwise - that's just what I see in reading his words and in remembering what things were like back then.
docgonzo this is not "aha you wrong". i see how you looking at statement. have you ever seen this http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=Historians
"One of them was John Kerry, Vietnam Navy veteran and aspiring politician who had been among those who organized the protest. Kerry flung a handful of medals -- he had received the Silver Star, a Bronze Star Medal, and three Purple Hearts -- over the fence. Kerry spoke later that week before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, putting a face on the antiwar movement far different from the one seen before -- the scruffy hippie or wild-eyed activist. Kerry represented the All-American boy, mentally twisted by being asked to do terrible things, then abandoned by his government.
From start to finish, the public took Dewey Canyon III at face value, not understanding that they were watching brilliant political theater. Kerry, a Kennedy protege with white-hot political aspirations, ascended center stage as both a war hero and as an antiwar hero throwing away his combat decorations. His speech, apparently off the cuff, was eloquent, impassioned.
But years later, after his election to the Senate, Kerry's medals turned up on the wall of his Capitol Hill office. When a reporter noticed them, Kerry admitted that the medals he had thrown that day were not his. And Kerry's emotional, from-the-heart speech had been carefully crafted by a speechwriter for Robert Kennedy named Adam Walinsky, who also tutored him on how to present it. TV reporters totally ignored another Vietnam veteran, Melville L. Stephens, a former aide to Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, chief of Naval Operations, who that same day urged the Senate not to abandon America's allies in South Vietnam. "Peace for us must not come at the cost of their lives," Stephens said in a speech he wrote himself."
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So he was just following orders..
Grunherz, during the VN war, Vietnam was divided up into various military regions. Various Army groups and the Marines were responsible for certain regions. the Mekong Delta region was not an area that the standard Amry or Marines was responsible for. It was mostly river and swamp areas, nomans land. So the Navy and some other special units were tasked with this area. In order to cover the region adequatly from VC infiltration in the S, certain strategies were encompassed at certain times etc.. where nobody was alowed in certain areas. Most civilians grew to know about this and avoided this area at certain times. Hence the free fire zone.
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Originally posted by anonymous
docgonzo this is not "aha you wrong". i see how you looking at statement. have you ever seen this http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=Historians
Yes. I'm aware of that.
FWIW, Anon and Liz, my opinion is that Kerry started out with the noblest intentions and then trumped the notariety into a really nice political career for himself. He's a very smart man and a career politician.
The last guy I felt like voting for was Perot.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Yes. I'm aware of that.
FWIW, Anon and Liz, my opinion is that Kerry started out with the noblest intentions and then trumped the notariety into a really nice political career for himself. He's a very smart man and a career politician.
The last guy I felt like voting for was Perot.
perot was and is a classy guy. did you ever hear about party he threw in san fran california for son tay raiders? ill email you picture of it if you want pretty neat.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
You're comparing three completely different things.
I don't believe Japan signed the Geneva Convention so they weren't bound by those accords as far as prisoner treatment (someone please correct me if I'm wrong ... I don't feel like googling now). Also it was part of their culture to never surrender - so they saw those who did as not worthy. You could accuse these guards of war crimes and they simply wouldn't understand why - back then, anyway.
The Holocaust (and, yes campers, it really did happen) was part of a national policy and carried out by subhuman scum. Those pukes should all be strung up as there's no way you can NOT know that genocide is wrong.
US troops in VN were put in a situation of fighting mostly a guerilla war. Against an enemy who'd been fighting invaders for generations - and didn't care what it took to win, or how long. Our troops knew what they were doing was unpopular at home, the casualty rate was high, and you never knew who was the enemy. So troops put into that situation - trying to survive - are prone to shoot first, or get out of hand when faced with savagery by the other side. Plus this is happening 20+ years later - the world grew up a whole lot during WW2.
That's great. Of course, it has absolutely zero to do with MrLars excuse and my reply to it, but thanks for posting anyway.
Reading the thread next time micht help.
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Originally posted by Martlet
Reading the thread next time micht help.
Bicht me.
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First, who the hell is Weasel?
Second, the documents have all been scanned and are all available on the web, including the one listing Bush as suspended from flying. Perhaps you should try spelling your keywords properly, or learning how a Boolean search works.
Third, what kind of idiot believes that the politics didn't play a huge part in who was allowed into the Guard units during Vietnam? The Guard was known to be the place to go to escape Vietnam. All Guard commands are political appointments made by state governors, except the National command which is a political appointment made by the president. The Guard is the only military organization in which that is the case. That is why it became the refuge for the sons of the powerful during Vietnam.
Fourth, Bush only got into Yale because his father and grandfather went there. As a legacy, he got in despite his C average in high school, which left him below the cut off for non-legacies. Bush graduated from Yale with... another C average. He was a cheerleader at Yale. All public records. Bush was accepted to Harvard Business School despite having a below standard grade point average at Yale, because daddy was U.S. Special Envy to China at the time, and he was, wait for it... again a legacy.
What other points can we make about Bush being substandard and riding the coat tails of others? How about being on the board of 5 different companies, all of which failed? How about the fact that he didn't make his first profit in business until the Texas Rangers were sold, and his minor share in the team which he puchased with borrowed money finally made him a millionaire? Bush was allowed to buy into the Rangers because of his name alone, certainly not because of his business sense. Small wonder, then, that the person who purchased the team - Texas billionaire Tom Hicks - was later appointed by Bush as chairman of UTIMCO, the University of Texas Investment Management Company which used to be called the Permanent University Fund, where Hicks proceeded to award lucrative investment contracts from the billions in the fund to other Bush campaign contributors. Money goes in one end and comes out the other.
Oh, and while we're discussing it, the lawyer who represented Bush in the Rangers deal, a member of Bush family friend James Baker's Baker and Botts law firm, was later given a job at the SEC. Guess which lawyer at the SEC investigated Bush's Harken stock trades? That's right. Bush's own lawyer from the Rangers deal. Duh.
It's all in the public record. It's no secret. The sheep are just too dazed and/or stupid to think for themselves.
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if theres links all over to the docs you spoke of like his minimum score flying aptitude test then show me one. but there isnt you are full of sheet. you can yap all you want your big convenient conspiracys all fall apart in the light. low apt scores for flying and daddy trying to influence dont add up to being selected for and finishing training to be fighter pilot. and i dont believe a guy who got shot down in combat more than once would pull strings to keep anyone out of harms way. you make assumption for dads lack of character and sons cowardice for which you have zero proof. show me your make believe docs that somehow show bush jr isnt fifty times the man and brain you will ever be or get back in your room and clean it like mom told you to.
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Originally posted by anonymous
if theres links all over to the docs you spoke of like his minimum score flying aptitude test then show me one. but there isnt you are full of sheet. you can yap all you want your big convenient conspiracys all fall apart in the light. low apt scores for flying and daddy trying to influence dont add up to being selected for and finishing training to be fighter pilot. and i dont believe a guy who got shot down in combat more than once would pull strings to keep anyone out of harms way. you make assumption for dads lack of character and sons cowardice for which you have zero proof. show me your make believe docs that somehow show bush jr isnt fifty times the man and brain you will ever be or get back in your room and clean it like mom told you to.
Impressive, you couldn't find a single one? Are your shoes tied or are they the kind with velcro closures.
Here's 5 minutes work with a search engine:
http://www.awolbush.com/index.html This one has all the documents in .pdf files for both Bush and Kerry.
http://bushwatch.org/awol.htm This one has quotes from various newspaper articles which researched the facts.
http://bushwatch.org/family.htm A timeline of various Bush family underhanded dealing and cronyism from 1918 to 2000.
http://bushwatch.org/bushwater.htm This is commonly known as the Bush money tree.
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Originally posted by Sceadu
Impressive, you couldn't find a single one? Are your shoes tied or are they the kind with velcro closures.
Here's 5 minutes work with a search engine:
http://www.awolbush.com/index.html This one has all the documents in .pdf files for both Bush and Kerry.
http://bushwatch.org/awol.htm This one has quotes from various newspaper articles which researched the facts.
http://bushwatch.org/family.htm A timeline of various Bush family underhanded dealing and cronyism from 1918 to 2000.
http://bushwatch.org/bushwater.htm This is commonly known as the Bush money tree.
They missed one:
1958: Young George W Bush sneaks up to little classmate Tiffany Jackson and says that girls are icky. Tiffany is distraught and cries.
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Originally posted by Sceadu
Impressive, you couldn't find a single one? Are your shoes tied or are they the kind with velcro closures.
Here's 5 minutes work with a search engine:
http://www.awolbush.com/index.html This one has all the documents in .pdf files for both Bush and Kerry.
http://bushwatch.org/awol.htm This one has quotes from various newspaper articles which researched the facts.
http://bushwatch.org/family.htm A timeline of various Bush family underhanded dealing and cronyism from 1918 to 2000.
http://bushwatch.org/bushwater.htm This is commonly known as the Bush money tree.
i dont see any document showing minimum score on pilot aptitude. are you admitting you are a liar? everything else well the source says it all. as for five minutes work with search engine i get the feeling you have all these as bookmark. ill ask again you were Sailor where when and what was your job?
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pretty funny stuff was looking at beacon of factual reporting "awolbush" and under list of those who served they mention secdef rumsfeld as naval aviator but have to balance with "met with sadaam hussein twice"! what a damning indictment!
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Those sites are fantastic. I can just imagine the looneis behind them hunched over their computer typing up that trash, smoking their ciggaretes and nervously glacing over thir shoulders waiting for the evil BOOOsh cia to break down their Mom's basement door and take em' away...
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Too funny. Let me guess, you'll only believe bad things about Bush if you see them on Fox News first; but you'll believe any old thing about Kerry that Faux News tells you? Enlightening. Well, for me about your open mind, not really for you.
Anonymous, I answered your question already. It was in a different thread. And the information on the test scores is in one of those links. Try actually reading them this time.
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Gunherz, you should really add one more quote to your sig. Try this one:
"A mind is like a parachute, it has to be open to function properly. I keep pulling the ripcord and nothing is happening! Uh oh. Splat" - Grunherz.
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Originally posted by Sceadu
Too funny. Let me guess, you'll only believe...
The impression I get from your rhetoric suggests that you would tend to throw away information gleaned from 'Faux' news.
I hope it is mistaken, as I would hate to think your mind is not as open as you think it may be.
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As long as it's news. Unfortunately in the case of Faux News, most of what they spout isn't news at all, but political polemic with a decided slant. Since they advertise themselves as "Fair and balanced" and claim that they just "report the news and let you decide" it's clear that they aren't anywhere near to being honest. Now that doesn't go for the news itself, just the thinly veiled "opinion" shows. For plain old news, real news not opinion dressed up as news, they are no better or worse than any other national media organization. And like those other media, they must be viewed as always somewhat biased, from whatever standpoint.
One of my personal favorites is the time a national Fox reporter was waiting to interview then governor and presidential candidate Bush. Not knowing that the tape was already running, he began a long pre-interview suck up that included a slip about his wife working with Bush's wife in Bush's campaign. That's hardly unbiased. No surprise when the interview turned out to be one long campaign ad.
Fox isn't bad all of the time. Their local affiliates aren't nearly as bad as the national. It was a New England Fox affiliate that first investigated and broke the news during the 2000 campaign about Bush's drunk driving arrest.
Beware of self-proclaimed unbiased news sources. One of the Washington newspapers, the Washington Times, is wholly owned and strictly controlled by the Reverend Sun Myung Moon. I don't know about you, but anyone claiming to be the Messiah and having personal endorsements from Hitler, Stalin and Jesus is not someone I trust to own a newspaper. ;)
I prefer to find the most unbiased news that I can get. So I avoid CNN and the other cable news networks, the broadcast networks, and national newspapers. I get most of my news from the Christian Science Monitor; which, in spite of being run by some rather crazy religious nuts, prides itself on just reporting the news without added editorializing. They are a good source for simple, unbiased reporting. I also liked NWI for cable news. Sadly, it was recently purchased by a group of investors which include Al Gore. That seriously damaged their credibility for me. The Independent is a sometimes useful news source, for a British paper. The Guardian is pure trash, and almost always slanted too far to the left.
If I want slanted news, then I'll read the Onion. ;)
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Originally posted by Sceadu
As long as it's news. Unfortunately in the case of Faux News, most of what they spout isn't news at all, but political polemic with a decided slant. Since they advertise themselves as "Fair and balanced" and claim that they just "report the news and let you decide" it's clear that they aren't anywhere near to being honest. Now that doesn't go for the news itself, just the thinly veiled "opinion" shows. For plain old news, real news not opinion dressed up as news, they are no better or worse than any other national media organization. And like those other media, they must be viewed as always somewhat biased, from whatever standpoint.
One of my personal favorites is the time a national Fox reporter was waiting to interview then governor and presidential candidate Bush. Not knowing that the tape was already running, he began a long pre-interview suck up that included a slip about his wife working with Bush's wife in Bush's campaign. That's hardly unbiased. No surprise when the interview turned out to be one long campaign ad.
Fox isn't bad all of the time. Their local affiliates aren't nearly as bad as the national. It was a New England Fox affiliate that first investigated and broke the news during the 2000 campaign about Bush's drunk driving arrest.
Beware of self-proclaimed unbiased news sources. One of the Washington newspapers, the Washington Times, is wholly owned and strictly controlled by the Reverend Sun Myung Moon. I don't know about you, but anyone claiming to be the Messiah and having personal endorsements from Hitler, Stalin and Jesus is not someone I trust to own a newspaper. ;)
I prefer to find the most unbiased news that I can get. So I avoid CNN and the other cable news networks, the broadcast networks, and national newspapers. I get most of my news from the Christian Science Monitor; which, in spite of being run by some rather crazy religious nuts, prides itself on just reporting the news without added editorializing. They are a good source for simple, unbiased reporting. I also liked NWI for cable news. Sadly, it was recently purchased by a group of investors which include Al Gore. That seriously damaged their credibility for me. The Independent is a sometimes useful news source, for a British paper. The Guardian is pure trash, and almost always slanted too far to the left.
If I want slanted news, then I'll read the Onion. ;)
Its so easy to spot your posts Weazel, too bad you can't see yourself. :rofl
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His Teeth were there...Was He? (http://doonesbury.msn.com/strip/bush_guard.html)
Anyone collected yet?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
His Teeth were there...Was He? (http://doonesbury.msn.com/strip/bush_guard.html)
Anyone collected yet?
That's a funny site.:D
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Its so easy to spot your posts Weazel, too bad you can't see yourself. :rofl
Whatever. I've tried to explain that I'm not this person, whoever he is. This will be the last time. I'll just ignore it in the future. I had a chat in the game the other day with someone who said he was a former squadmate with this Weasel you keep bringing up. He explained the situation to me. I assume Weasel was anti-Bush as well. It's also apparent that he tweaked your nose once too often; or you wouldn't be having these paranoid fantasies that he's around every corner. You should probably seek help.
I suppose we could ask the board moderator to confirm that I'm not this person. Okay by me. It probably won't help much. Paranoia is not so easily overcome. Therapy might work. Frankly, I couldn't care less. You're quite welcome to your fantasies. Just don't breed, please. The gene pool doesn't need your substandard chromosomes.
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I hear there is a 10,000$ reward for anyone that will go on record as saying they saw John Kerry's wounds, too.
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no mention of any pilot aptitude scores in the documents. maybe hes imagining things again.
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Originally posted by Sceadu
Too funny. Let me guess, you'll only believe bad things about Bush if you see them on Fox News first; but you'll believe any old thing about Kerry that Faux News tells you? Enlightening. Well, for me about your open mind, not really for you.
Anonymous, I answered your question already. It was in a different thread. And the information on the test scores is in one of those links. Try actually reading them this time.
believe anything about kerry like his testimony before govt that is archived by govt and has existed for three decades? fox news is good they planted the evidence decades before they exist to "smear" someone they were truly psychic in predicting as running for president some day.
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Originally posted by Sceadu
Whatever. I've tried to explain that I'm not this person, whoever he is. This will be the last time. I'll just ignore it in the future. I had a chat in the game the other day with someone who said he was a former squadmate with this Weasel you keep bringing up. He explained the situation to me. I assume Weasel was anti-Bush as well. It's also apparent that he tweaked your nose once too often; or you wouldn't be having these paranoid fantasies that he's around every corner. You should probably seek help.
I suppose we could ask the board moderator to confirm that I'm not this person. Okay by me. It probably won't help much. Paranoia is not so easily overcome. Therapy might work. Frankly, I couldn't care less. You're quite welcome to your fantasies. Just don't breed, please. The gene pool doesn't need your substandard chromosomes.
braver words have never been typed.
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Originally posted by Sceadu
As long as it's news. Unfortunately in the case of Faux News, most of what they spout isn't news at all, but political polemic with a decided slant.
Beware of what your own strongly held beliefs do to your perception: A excerpt from the following link...
The study also supports the existence of what researchers call the “hostile media phenomenon,” Eveland said. People who are highly committed, regardless of their specific views -- such as those who are strong partisans on either side or those actively involved in politics -- will perceive a generally balanced news story to be biased in favor of their opponents.
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/talkbias.htm
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Originally posted by Sceadu
Whatever. I've tried to explain that I'm not this person, whoever he is. This will be the last time. I'll just ignore it in the future. I had a chat in the game the other day with someone who said he was a former squadmate with this Weasel you keep bringing up. He explained the situation to me. I assume Weasel was anti-Bush as well. It's also apparent that he tweaked your nose once too often; or you wouldn't be having these paranoid fantasies that he's around every corner. You should probably seek help.
I suppose we could ask the board moderator to confirm that I'm not this person. Okay by me. It probably won't help much. Paranoia is not so easily overcome. Therapy might work. Frankly, I couldn't care less. You're quite welcome to your fantasies. Just don't breed, please. The gene pool doesn't need your substandard chromosomes.
Ouch, that palm print should last fer a good while, get the weenies it's bbq time.
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Weaz, what do these quotes below have in common? (Besides the cynical nature of the posts) :rofl
Originally posted by Sceadu
As long as it's news. Unfortunately in the case of Faux News, most of what they spout isn't news at all, but political polemic with a decided slant.
Originally posted by weazel
Maybe Faux News can explain this phenomenon to us?
Originally posted by weazel
Dude, you should apply to Faux News ....I bet they could use another uninformed talking head.
Originally posted by weazel
FAUX is about as credible a source as the National Enquirer.
Originally posted by weazel
"Where do you get this statistic from...FAUX News?
Originally posted by weazel
.. just making sure you Faux News viewers get a viewpoint from someone other than Karl Rove or Rupert Murdoch.
Originally posted by weazel
I can read that kind of drivel at Faux News.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Weaz, what do these quotes below have in common? (Besides the cynical nature of the posts) :rofl
You won Rip.
Hi de ho weazzer
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You should have let him take out a lot more line before you set the hook, Rip.
He'll toss this one and be much more wary now.
Of course, now you'll have him paranoid about his wording. So, there is that.
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Wow weazel or someone just like him is back. yay!
Next thing you know LDV will be back ranting about the same crap but spelling it all wrong:D
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Wow! He's just as batchit against Bush as we are FOR Bush! He's GOTTA be Weaz! :rolleyes:
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Whoever the guy is, he sure uses a lot of words to say basically nothing.
I'm a fan of "less is more" and usually try to make a point with just a few words. This tard is lot like Weasel....just on and on and on spewing crap he's "learned" from the internet.
They both sould like the same type of moron. Sounds like weasel to me.
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Originally posted by Toad
You should have let him take out a lot more line before you set the hook, Rip.
He'll toss this one and be much more wary now.
Of course, now you'll have him paranoid about his wording. So, there is that.
Tell you what. Let's make a bet. And then get an admin to verify. OK?
If I'm not this Weasel, all of you quit this game and never return.
If I am this Weasel, I'll quit and never return.
Fair enough?
Any takers?
Balls?
Anyone?
I didn't think so.
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Originally posted by Sceadu
Tell you what. Let's make a bet. And then get an admin to verify. OK?
If I'm not this Weasel, all of you quit this game and never return.
If I am this Weasel, I'll quit and never return.
Fair enough?
Any takers?
Balls?
Anyone?
I didn't think so.
I'll say that you sound as stupid, brash and ignorant as Weasel.
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I'm quite serious. Show us all that you have some balls. Don't like the quitting bet, name one. I'm for whatever prize you want to name. Otherwise just go ahead and put on the dresses now. Or are you all full of the false bravado of the internet, hiding behind your cheezy little handles, and hoping one day you grow pubes just like dad?
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Originally posted by NUKE
I'll say that you sound as stupid, brash and ignorant as Weasel.
No hair on the old nut sack, eh?
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Originally posted by Sceadu
No hair on the old nut sack, eh?
I'm very content knowing that you are the same type of hysterical freak as Weasel.
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Who's the next of the all mouth and no balls crowd to admit to it?
Come on! Step right up.
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Originally posted by Sceadu
Who's the next of the all mouth and no balls crowd to admit to it?
Come on! Step right up.
Admit what hysterical freak?
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You had your turn, sport. Let one of the other ladies try now.
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Maybe he isn't weazy, I do not remeber him ever doing the internet tuff guy thing, more MrBs style.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Maybe he isn't weazy, I do not remeber him ever doing the internet tuff guy thing, more MrBs style.
That's two. It's a shame that someone who uses as an icon a pic of the one of the best cars ever made turns out to have no huevos.
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Originally posted by Sceadu
That's two. It's a shame that someone who uses as an icon a pic of the one of the best cars ever made turns out to have no huevos.
You are a stupid, freaking, hysterical liberal moron, just like Weasel.
Nobody liked Weasel and nobody likes you, because you are both conspiracy theory believing idiots with low IQ's
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Like it takes balls to deal with someone like you?
You are either just like weazel, or weazel and acting like the numerous other schizoids we have had on the board, like Mrblack or Voss.
When are you going to start threatening to kick bellybutton at the con?
Do you really think Hitechcreations is going to bother helping you prove who you are? You wasting everyone time trying to start an internet pissing match.
Maybe if you ask nice and stop trying to be a tough guy, Skuzzy will help you out but I do not think he will participate in some kind of 12 year olds bet.
Try acting like an adult and people might even take you seriously; I doubt it at this point though.
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Act like an adult? Are you kidding? I attempt to argue points, cogently and reasonably, and instead get insulted and accused of being this weasel person. Unable to offer any reasonable, civil discourse in return a certain number of you turn to childish insults; and now you're going to claim the high road? Sheer hypocrisy. If you want to act like a bunch of children, then you going to be treated that way. Thus, my responses in this thread.
Can you think of any other way for me to prove I'm not this weasel person? I'm open to suggestions. In the meantime, instead of offering insults when you can't think of anything intelligent to say, how about arguing reasonably and in a civil manner or keeping out of it? If you can manage it. Insulting people with opinions which differ from yours isn't the most adult response, now is it? And since I found this message board a few days ago, that's about all I've received - with a few notable exceptions. I've been called a liar, a fraud, a schizoid (by you), someone I'm not, and a host of other things which amount to nothing more than "oh, yeah? Your Momma!" posts. Congratulations.
Meanwhile, the bet stands.
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Originally posted by Sceadu
Act like an adult? Are you kidding? I attempt to argue points, cogently and reasonably,
LOL!
What points have you argued?
Moron.
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If you think you ever had the high road you should have stuck to it.
You didn't.
In fact your still sticking to your little bet deal.
Email Skuzzy and ask him what he thinks of your bet. You really should be sure he can help before you start posturing like a 12 year old internet bully.
P.S. Weazel was a big Pontiac guy too, interesting coincidence.
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Originally posted by NUKE
LOL!
What points have you argued?
Moron.
One more freebie, just for you, sport.
Go back and reread this thread. Read my first post in the thread. Read all f the immediate responses to my post. See any arguments against my post that didn't include personal insults, or just dismiss me because some of you dlts think I'm this weasel guy? No? You can now return to your regularly scheduled insulting. Just as happened to anyone else who disagreed with the party line in this thread. I wasn't the only one. And all of us were immediately insulted by the children like yourself.
As for you, GtoRA2, my current ride is a dark blue 1972 Cutlass Supreme 442 hardtop with the 455 rocket and original TH, etc. But, since you're determined to be a childish salamander, no you can't drive it.
And, as I said, if you can think of another way for me to debunk this weasel crap, I'm all for it. Speak up. Don't be shy.
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Here is your last clue.
Try acting like an adult, argue without calling names no mater what anyone else calls you, and argue your points, again, like an adult, no mater what anyone else says. Weazel couldn't do this.
You so far have not done this and are acting just as childish as anyone else, if not more so then anyone on this thread.
Prove your Weazel by not acting like his clone. In time people will take you for who you are. Acting like a 4th grader on your second day is only going to convince more people you are a Voss/weazel/mrblack clone.
See here is the thing, you just started here, no one really knows who you are. If you start off acting like a past banned member, people are going to assume you are one(the history for that is long and amusing). You will never convince them by acting like you are now.
So your only recourse is to let it blow over and try to not become a pariah.
On top of that you current actions are not going to make you any friends assuming you are not Weazel, this all goes back to the being adult thing. We collectively can act like asses, cause everyone else here knows us(IE we are know in the group we do not have any identity problems).
Still I am just a salamander like everyone else here you are trying to pick a fight with so what do I know?
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You almost achieved a civil post there.
Now, go back and read your first post after mine in this thread and tell me what was adult about it? I'm supposed to not respond in kind to what you do, and yet I'm the bad guy? Bull.
Accusing me of being an internet bully after you derided someone for misspellings? Can you even spell hypocrite?
Since I attempted join in what I thought was a civil discussion, not just in this thread, but in others as well and was rewarded with nothing but insults; you want me to keep doing that? Are you insane?
Apparently, anyone who doesn't toe the party line here gets treated the same. I hoped for different. My mistake. I'm sure you'd be perfectly happy in a brown shirt with a thin black tie and jack boots. It never ceases to amaze me that you clowns spend a great deal of effort calling other people commies when you're acting like members of Stasi or the Fifth Directorate yourselves. Amazing. It's almost comical. I keep being reminded of the witch hunt mob scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. At any moment, I keep expecting one of you knee-jerk cretinous Cheney wet dreams to post "Kerry turned me into a newt!" and mean it.
I'm not a turn the other cheek kind of person. I'll gladly return kind with kind. And quit climbing on a high horse like you did a few posts back and continue to do, despite your first post in this thread.
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Why do I waste my time? Everything went right over your head.
You call me a hypocrite, yet then move right on and call someone who does not agree with you a Nazi.
Nice work.
Have fun on ignore.
Maybe you should leave our community of Nazi's since we are all so mean and you’re so innocent and pure.
Have fun being the 50 year old child you clearly are.
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Maybe between the lot of them Sceadu they might scrounge up a set to drop. :p
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Why do I waste my time? Everything went right over your head.
You call me a hypocrite, yet then move right on and call someone who does not agree with you a Nazi.
Nice work.
Have fun on ignore.
Maybe you should leave our community of Nazi's since we are all so mean and you’re so innocent and pure.
Have fun being the 50 year old child you clearly are.
This is an act, right? No one can be this stupid.
I didn't call those who disagree with me Nazis, I made a specific reference to the way your little crowd of right-wing thread thugs, those who treat others as you already admitted that you treat others (go reread your line about acting like tulips a few posts up) as brown shirts, aka Nazi-like. You don't perhaps know the reference; and I realize that you probably can't grasp the distinction anyway. Too bad. Do you even know what hypocrite means?
Oh, please ignore me. If you'd started off that way, rather than attempting to insult me for making a post with which you didn't agree, regarding Bush and his war record, then we wouldn't be having this uncivil discussion. It'll save you from having to chew on your toenails in public again. Since you're obviously incapable of engaging in civil debate without resorting to the childishness of which you accuse me, ignoring me seems like a good choice.
And Torque! That makes 3. Climb into that dress and do the eunuch dance now. I suppose now we're just waiting on the original instigator, Ripsnort, and a couple of others.
Next.
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LOL Weazel, dig baby dig!
Remember this thread on 9/11/2001 Weazel? You had changed your name to Jihad.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=14832&referrerid=3203
"Dr. Psychiatric will now see Mr. Wenzel"
I've already quit the game (last month). Now shoo, go get your medication upped.
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Here's another for ya Weazel: (To the tune of Sesame Street) "What two things...don't look like the others.."
Originally posted by Sceadu
I made a specific reference to the way your little crowd of right-wing thread thugs..
Originally posted by weazel
I view it as a progression of the gradual destruction of the traditional US way of life by chimpy and his thugs.
Originally posted by weazel
How Bush and his thugs succeeded in deflecting Americas anger from bin Laden to Saddam Hussein is one of the great public relations swindles of history.
Originally posted by weazel
But on the bright side we have less than two years before we elect someone who can begin undoing the damage chimpy and his thugs and goons have created.
Originally posted by weazel
Chimpy and his thugs are lying to us about a LOT of things.
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Originally posted by Sceadu
Tell you what. Let's make a bet. And then get an admin to verify. OK?
You're saying that it would be impossible for Weaz to open yet another shade account without Skuzzy knowing?
I'm not an internet detective, nor do I play one on TV, but wouldn't merely getting a new Internet provider and/or computer or even using a friend's computer be sufficient to establish a new unconnected shade account?
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You've been kinda quiet today Weazel. :)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
You've been kinda quiet today Weazel. :)
Well since there's no way for me to prove I'm not this weasel, and you're obviously unable to argue your way out of a paper bag anyway, I'll just let you and your little group have your little circle jerk. I'm sure Bush will be happy to know you and the rest of the Log Cabin Republicans here are pulling a train in his honor. Who's on top, Ripsnort or Toad?
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That post was TRULY Weazel-esque.
So, tell me........ would a new IP and/or computer or using a friend's computer be able to throw the Admin guy off your trail? Is that bet you posted anything but pointless? Well, other than it giving you a chance to thump your manly chest?
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Originally posted by Toad
That post was TRULY Weazel-esque.
So, tell me........ would a new IP and/or computer or using a friend's computer be able to throw the Admin guy off your trail? Is that bet you posted anything but pointless? Well, other than it giving you a chance to thump your manly chest?
Well let's see. I'm using the same handle in here as I use in the game, and since my account requires credit card billing with accurate address information and email address, and I sincerely doubt that this weasel lives in the same state as I do, much less the same town; what would using a different IP or a friend's computer matter, moron? That doesn't affect billing. As I said, I'm open to suggestions on how to prove I'm not weasel.
Not that it really matters. This whole weasel thing is just a cover for you dolts being unable to argue your own positions. I have never seen a bigger nest of smacktards. I have yet to see anyone here in the gung-ho Bush cheerleading squad engage in a debate other than to immediately resort to labelling, name-calling, and in the case of you and Ripsnort and the others with this sad weasel paranoia and obsession, nothing but ad hominem attacks that don't even attempt a debate. Thus the references to jack-booted brown shirts. That's exactly how the neanderthals in the early 30's silenced dissent. Mindless, uncaring lockstep to the party line. Sad.
And then your boy goes and tosses both feet in his mouth again today. What a goober you love so as president. Here's a direct quote of his from today:
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we," Bush said.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
For once, I agree with something he said. Even though it isn't what he meant. Just another in a long list of Bushisms. This guy even makes some of you look intelligent.
And then there's the new attack ads being run calling Kerry a betrayer. The Bush campaign distances itself from the ads, saying they'll never question Kerry's Vietnam service; but the ads are being paid for by a major Houston contributor to the Bush campaign. John McCain was so pissed off about it that he called the ad "dishonest and dishonorable" and said "it was the same kind of deal they pulled on me" during the 2000 campaign.
If he is re-elected, you dip****s deserve him.
Now, I'm off for a week of poker in Vegas, so enjoy your sad little circle jerk.
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So, like Weazel, the best you can do is ad hominem attacks?
And, like Weazel, you generalize and make yourself look simply foolish. You obviously don't have a clue as to who I'm backing in this election.
Again, you couldn't get a friend or family to put this on their credit card and you pay them?
There's lots of ways to get around a banning. Even if you won't admit it.