Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: FiLtH on August 02, 2004, 06:56:16 PM
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Is it possible in the future to make it so the guy who shoots a friendly doesnt take the damage, but the guy who slid in front of you does? Everynight I hear people complaining how someone jumped in front of them and they hit them and died.
Id rather see the other guy get the damage, but the shooter would get a warning message that he killed a friendly. If he does this twice in a 24hr period, he can only use vehicles without weapons.
We all remember AW and how well it worked when they used that setup.
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This road has been tread many times, it always leads to a dead end.
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problem with that filth, is to be a jerk i could for example wingman you, find you RTB'ing kills, and vulch you on landing.
you lose the perks / kills (in a k/d stat), and i get a "warning"
i could do this every day for a month or a year if i wanted.
now that is not something i'd do, even to 616... but it is a possibility that would really make someone mad. imagine of someone did that to fester, heck a whoel squad of 10 could kill him landing 10 times in a day, and be none the worse for wear.
thats just not a good idea at all IMHO.
personally the best is no damage to anyone, then all you are out is hit% because of the wasted bullets. have 3 settings, KS on, KS off, and no effect. the "on" and "off" would eb used for scenarios, and the "no effect" would be for the main.
just an idea
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I say yes to the no-damage deal.
A2A combat is really too close to really keep your eyes moving around. But then again, if you're going to merge, you need to "signal" so use the VOX!
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I say leave it like it is. No damage is a bad idea. I have used killshooter against an enemy before, particularly when i'm being chased on the deck by a gang. They are all so anxious to pull a piece off my plane they are all spraying so a little weave and one of them loses a wing...LOL. It has only happened once or twice but it was a thrill :D
Imagine in the same scenario, you're draggin what seems to be the entire (insert country name here) airforce behind you and not only the guy in front is spraying from long range but all of them are...yikes.
Killshooter aint perfect, but usually when I am the victim of it I can look back and realize I left too much room between me and the con. VERY seldom have I had someone cut in front of me when I am less than 200 from a con. I like to get in real close usually, I also hate it when I've worked a guy over and am just sorta torturing him and some nimrod starts trying to steal my kill by shooting over my shoulder. I have (and will continue to do so) pulled into his stream as a deterrent, I mean I did all the work why should some guy come blasting in and steal my work? The only way I normally take damage from killshooter is by the bullets that miss the con and hit the guy he was chasing, that also happens in HOs. You know where someone was Ho'ing the con that I was on the 6 of?
Killshooter is not as bad as the alternatives, and any thoughts of removing it or changing it are simply a waste of your time. It is here to stay, kinda like the 3 country thing.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
...Id rather see the other guy get the damage, but the shooter would get a warning message that he killed a friendly. If he does this twice in a 24hr period, he can only use vehicles without weapons...
A sloppy, vindictive or disruptive player could team kill 2 times a day. That doesn't seem so bad at first. But, there is no limit to how many times a day YOU could be shot down by your own team mates. That don't work.
Every day, every flight (nearly) someone on my team will sit 300 behind me and shoot over my shoulder. I want that tard to fear the punishment of hitting me, not be given a green light to hose me down too.
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i keep saying this, and i'll say it again...
killshooter should affect *both* shooter and shootee...
:D
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This is a dead-end thread, but here's my $0.02 anyway: The PNG policy in AW worked and it worked because of community pressure. Intentional side-killers were hunted down and killed time after time until they switched countries, cleaned up their acts or left the game. It wasn't pretty but it worked. The onus was on the community to police itself in this regard and it did fairly well for the most part.
And as much as I hate being kill-shot by someone popping into my bullets I'd have to say the killshooter system seems to work in the AH community fairly well. Given the current culture in the MA I'd rather not see a switch over to a PNG policy - it wouldn't be worth the mess.
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What about a system message for like when you land kills.
Filth has landed 7 kills, 4 of which were friendlies.
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Originally posted by Goth
Filth has landed 7 kills, 4 of which were friendlies.
Muhahahahahaaahaa!!
That just strikes me funny.
Yeah this topic has been dragged around filth. Who knows, maybe someone will hit on a perfect solution one day. The above example would force me to shoot down all my own squadies at some point. Oh thats even better...
GrimmCAF has landed 5 kills, 1 of which was a friendly, 4 of which were squadies.
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Its very simple if there is a freindly in front of you dont pull the trigger. Problem solved!
The only thing I see wrong with kill shooter is. When trying to clear a freindlys 6. You have the bad guy d .6 in front of you flying straight trying to get a shot on your bud who is d 1.2 in front of you and hes bobing and weaving. You shoot a burst at the bad guy and get some hits and your tail comes off from hitting your bud at d 1.2. Now I dont know about you but I never shoot at a bad guy at 1.2 BECAUSE you will never friggin hit him. Yet d 1.2 is a easy kill on yourself with a freindly in front of you. I just hate that. I allways tell my wingys to start a turn before I shoot.
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Icemaw :) The 1.2 story reminds me how single engines Planes always go in to auto rough when over water or mountians.
HiTech
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In general, I'd say leave it alone.
One Problem: there's NO incentive for kill stealers to stay out of your line of fire. I've worked for that clean 300m deflection shot, lined up nicely after gradually slowing angles fight -- and some jerk who's been screaming down from 15k the whole time pops in front of me, gets the kill, flies safely through the debris -- and I'm dead because he cut through my bullet stream.
I'm sure it's been considered before, but why not let both planes take damage? Set up the system so that desired behavior (don't shoot friendlies AND dont cut in front of bullets) has a built in incentive, and you don't need to police people, or hope they have good manners.
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Leave things as they are I say. Here's a good example why. The no good low life scum bags we encounter here,from time to time, will switch sides just to kill the C47 / m3.
I ain't rocket science to figure this out.:rolleyes:
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Shooting over someone's shoulder is bad form anyway. I know I've done it a few times, and apologized for it (even if I was the one taking the hits). In real war time, I imagine any pilot that shot over a friendlies shoulder was removed or given a blanket party. I know if I was hunting an that happened, the hunting "buddy" would no longer be a buddy and walking home.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Is it possible in the future to make it so the guy who shoots a friendly doesnt take the damage, but the guy who slid in front of you does? Everynight I hear people complaining how someone jumped in front of them and they hit them and died.
Id rather see the other guy get the damage, but the shooter would get a warning message that he killed a friendly. If he does this twice in a 24hr period, he can only use vehicles without weapons.
We all remember AW and how well it worked when they used that setup.
It's called KILLSHOOTER FiLtH. The problem is that there is ZERO PENALTY for the plane that dives in front of you and "killshooters" you. That's a joke. It's WRONG. But don't hold yer breath waiting on a change. It ain't coming.
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I would like to see no damage from friendly fire. As it is now, players can cut in front and the penalty is applied to the person that got cut off. (This is normally how kill stealing goes down.) I never had any problem with "over the shoulder" shots since the person that is closest already has the advantage of range anyway.
-Buzzz
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Just don't fire from long range, particularly in a crowd. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been cut in on when firing from less than 200 or so. The only way I could agree to allowing friendly hits is if you get one ping you get booted for 24hrs :D
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Originally posted by Edbert MOL
Just don't fire from long range, particularly in a crowd. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been cut in on when firing from less than 200 or so. The only way I could agree to allowing friendly hits is if you get one ping you get booted for 24hrs :D
That does not solve the issue of being saddled up pretty much by yourself and having someone come zooming in from above on your low slow fight. Several times I've been the only one with a shot and all of the sudden here comes some yoyo zooming in. I try to be very careful not to cut some one off, and in fact I pass on many shots for fear of being on either end of the killshooter.
Maybe if they could keep track of those who cut across in front of another persons guns and cause them to be "killshootered" (I'm sure they can, after all, they know who shot who), they could enforce some sort of penalty on people who do it constantly.
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Originally posted by Buzzz
I would like to see no damage from friendly fire. As it is now, players can cut in front and the penalty is applied to the person that got cut off. (This is normally how kill stealing goes down.)
-Buzzz
And when this happens often the person shooting is spraying and praying which is bad form to begin with. also commonly combined with poor SA(counts for friendlies too) and/Or Greed
Fire short bursts and you reduce the likelyhood of killshooter significantly.
And you end up with more ammo to shoot at even more planes.
I get people who suddenly fly in front of me while Im shooting all the time. But because I fire in short burts. and know enough to STOP SHOOTING when someone else flies in front of me I very very rarely ever get a killshooter.
Some people say they cant help it when people suddenly pop up in front of them.
Maybe I just have some sort of superhuman reflexes or something cause I manage to do it al the time LOL
Though I bet having game sounds being the dominant thing comming through my headset instead of Nirvana Im sure helps too.
that way even if I cant see a friendly plane near me I can usually hear him.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
That does not solve the issue of being saddled up pretty much by yourself and having someone come zooming in from above on your low slow fight.
I agree 100% Capt., see my posts earlier saying pretty much the same thing. I just cannot think of anything we can do that would improve that situation and not make something else worse.
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Killshooter ain't broke, don't fix it.
This is a community education problem, not a software problem.
Teach those people that diving in on someone when you are saddled up at 200 is BAD FORM. And not to be tolerated.
How many times have all of us seen 5 to 7 friendlys chaseing a con around the field while the next wave is inbound.?
2 on a con is all thats needed at ANY situation. Everyone else should be grabbing & extending out to meet them coming in.
Good pilots only run afoul of killshooter a couple times a year. If your getting it more often perhaps you should rethink how & with who you fly.
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If I was going to change it I'd just make it to where if you would've actually caused damage to the friendly your ammo goes to "0". Then you can only rtb to reload. This penalizes you without causing a kill, etc... My $.02
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Originally posted by DipStick
If I was going to change it I'd just make it to where if you would've actually caused damage to the friendly your ammo goes to "0". Then you can only rtb to reload. This penalizes you without causing a kill, etc... My $.02
Hmmmm....I love the creativity....lemme think about that one for a bit.
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Originally posted by DipStick
If I was going to change it I'd just make it to where if you would've actually caused damage to the friendly your ammo goes to "0". Then you can only rtb to reload. This penalizes you without causing a kill, etc... My $.02
That solution is far too simple and elegant to work.
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Originally posted by Ghosth
Killshooter ain't broke, don't fix it.
This is a community education problem, not a software problem.
Teach those people that diving in on someone when you are saddled up at 200 is BAD FORM. And not to be tolerated.
How many times have all of us seen 5 to 7 friendlys chaseing a con around the field while the next wave is inbound.?
2 on a con is all thats needed at ANY situation. Everyone else should be grabbing & extending out to meet them coming in.
Good pilots only run afoul of killshooter a couple times a year. If your getting it more often perhaps you should rethink how & with who you fly.
Few things are so perfect they cannot be improved upon. I'm not at all convinced killshooter is one of them. It is an idea with considerable merit. It just has not been perfected.
You mention teaching people not to dive in and cut off other pilots. Well, if the pilot they cut off pays the penalty, where is the penalty for their bad behavior? A chewing out by the guy the "killshootered"? HAH!
No matter what, you can't MAKE those people stop doing what they do. As it stands, without film, you cannot even prove what happened. And even if you could, with no enforce penalty it matters little.
Community pressure can only do so much, as evidenced by perpetual poor behavior of some.
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Sometimes you can't avoid getting killshot by some hero who flies straight through you while trying to steal a kill. It has happened to me a bunch of times and it was not when I took a shot over the shoulder of someone else.
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Originally posted by DipStick
If I was going to change it I'd just make it to where if you would've actually caused damage to the friendly your ammo goes to "0". Then you can only rtb to reload. This penalizes you without causing a kill, etc... My $.02
Bad idea. If a I am fighting two or more enemies and they have a friendly fire incident one of them needs to die. I shouldn't be forced to continues tracking all my opponents. An unarmed aircraft can still affect the fight, or are you going to assume that the Spitfire pulling in on your 6 is unarmed?
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Originally posted by Karnak
Bad idea. If a I am fighting two or more enemies and they have a friendly fire incident one of them needs to die. I shouldn't be forced to continues tracking all my opponents. An unarmed aircraft can still affect the fight, or are you going to assume that the Spitfire pulling in on your 6 is unarmed?
The one without ammunition will likely leave the fight very quickly. Sure, he CAN stick around, but he most likely won't. Especially if he's the putz who always dives in and cuts off another pilot. That clown is only out for himself, and won't be helping the other pilot at all. He'll be running home to save his precious butt. Once he can't get kills he's through. The pilot who was cut off will leave him high and dry if he has any sense at all, and let him suffer the consquences of his actions. Were it me, if I had good reason to believe he didn't cut in by accident, I'd let you have him. And I'd tell you and him both, on 200. THAT is community pressure.
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Originally posted by DipStick
If I was going to change it I'd just make it to where if you would've actually caused damage to the friendly your ammo goes to "0". Then you can only rtb to reload. This penalizes you without causing a kill, etc... My $.02
As Murdr stated, this topic had been tread over many times.
I have seen this suggestion brought up many times and believe it to be the ultimate solution to killshooter.
The penalty that we suffer now is far to harsh for those who suffer it at some jerks ignorance or lack of etiquette.
If I did get "killshooter" and all my ammo went to zero, it would mean instant RTB and hopefully I could get out of the danger zone and reload/replane, but at least I would be given the chance and not penalized with death for someone elses actions.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
The one without ammunition will likely leave the fight very quickly. Sure, he CAN stick around, but he most likely won't. Especially if he's the putz who always dives in and cuts off another pilot. That clown is only out for himself, and won't be helping the other pilot at all. He'll be running home to save his precious butt. Once he can't get kills he's through. The pilot who was cut off will leave him high and dry if he has any sense at all, and let him suffer the consquences of his actions. Were it me, if I had good reason to believe he didn't cut in by accident, I'd let you have him. And I'd tell you and him both, on 200. THAT is community pressure.
But the clown who dove into your fire stream (why does this almost never happen to me, but almost always to all you guys?) won't be the one without ammo. It will be you.
If it was set so that the guy who got hit lost his ammo I can see a lot of people greifing players who just want to have fun.
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Ok, why not do BOTH?
The killshooter stays the same for the guy behind the trigger, so we learn to check fire in danger situations.
The .guy who popped in front loses his ammo, without dying or taking damage.
Both guys have incentive to change their community-undesired behavior -- which is a good criterion for succesful intervention
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Originally posted by Karnak
But the clown who dove into your fire stream (why does this almost never happen to me, but almost always to all you guys?) won't be the one without ammo. It will be you.
If it was set so that the guy who got hit lost his ammo I can see a lot of people greifing players who just want to have fun.
I'd just as soon it were both without ammo.
There are griefers who are "killshootering" people already.
Make a rule, and someone will always use it to grief.
If it took ammo from both of them, then both would leave.
If cutting people off left you facing an enemy without ammunition, rather than causing someone else to die outright, you'd work hard to avoid it.
To further add to the incentive not to do it, why not take the ammunition of a person with three violations in a certain time period for a short period of time? It worked real well in Air Warrior. Even if only for a few minutes, it would have a very sobering effect.
It doesn't happen to me THAT often, but it does happen TOO often.
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Captain Virgil Hilts,
I don't think it would work.
I know that I have stayed in fights after my ammo was gone to try to bluff the enemy into making mistakes or breaking off of a friendly. I don't think I am unique in that.
The bottom line is that one aircraft needs to be taken out of the combat completely and immediately when a friendly fire incident occurs. Anything else distorts the outcome of the combat.
In an ideal world it would be the guy that flew in front of your guns, but it this flawed reality that is unworkable.
The thing that surprises me is how often this happens to other people. I can only recall one killshooter incident where I died by having somebody cut in and I have never been greifed.
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Originally posted by Simaril
Ok, why not do BOTH?
The killshooter stays the same for the guy behind the trigger, so we learn to check fire in danger situations.
The .guy who popped in front loses his ammo, without dying or taking damage.
Both guys have incentive to change their community-undesired behavior -- which is a good criterion for succesful intervention
I can't count .. even with an abacus ... how many times I have been saddled up on a cons 6 and had not one, but multiple people shooting over my shoulder. Geesh I hate that. Thanks for the help, but NO THANKS !!!
If my ammo were to go to zero everytime one of those bozos pinged me, I would be 1,000,000 times more pissed than if my ammo went to zero cause the bozo flew into my bullet stream.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
I can't count .. even with an abacus ... how many times I have been saddled up on a cons 6 and had not one, but multiple people shooting over my shoulder. Geesh I hate that. Thanks for the help, but NO THANKS.
LOL... ain't it the truth. Wouldn't it be cool if all their ammo went to "0". I've only been KS'd about 3-4 times a year I'd guess but I usually only fire from 200-300. Still get some hero diving in front of me every once in awhile. Amazing.
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Originally posted by DipStick
LOL... ain't it the truth. Wouldn't it be cool if all their ammo went to "0". I've only been KS'd about 3-4 times a year I'd guess but I usually only fire from 200-300. Still get some hero diving in front of me every once in awhile. Amazing.
I envision Mars01 RTBing quite a bit if this were to happen !!! :D
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Originally posted by SlapShot
I envision Mars01 RTBing quite a bit if this were to happen !!! :D
Figured him for a big ol' killstealer. :p
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I envision Mars01 RTBing quite a bit if this were to happen !!!
Sure all the times I try to fly infront of your bullets when your shooting over my shoulder:D, the one time I don't want you to get the killshooter so you can feel the burn of the steal and you get killshootered.
Kill stealing is a no win situation boys and girls lol:D
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Figured him for a big ol' killstealer.
I wish, the first time in my life I get to steal a kill from slappy( ole eagle eye, with a seeing eye dog), the other night, and he killshootered on me.
Dam! I think he got discoed to cause all we heard was "awww mars, what the hell?" and then he was gone :D
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Originally posted by DipStick
Figured him for a big ol' killstealer. :p
The BIGGEST of them all !!! :p
the one time ...
And then you woke up !!!
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Originally posted by mars01
I think he got discoed to cause all we heard was "awww mars, what the hell?" and then he was gone :D
LOL.. now THAT is funny. :lol
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Well Ive seen guys in spits firning on a La7 at 600 away or better and losing ground, and Ive dove down to get on the la7 only to have the guy in the spit tell me to stay out of his guns.
To me he should have been the one to have stopped firing...but he'd insist I was at fault. Oh well..if folks are happy with it whatever. But how about getting a toggle for Range so I dont have to hear it?
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Yeah I almost thru up when I saw this
My Score one night current tour, I think it was Monday.
Kills 34
Assists 15
Sorties 23
15 assists in 23 sorties and 34 kills.
My buddy slaps score that night
Kills 17
Assists 4
Sorties 6
LOL, I had to do something hahahah. Plus I'd have to be able to hit something to kill steal lol. :D
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Personally if I'm on someone's 6 I don't need help period. Now if you have alt/e and feel you can get the kill just say "mind if I step in" on vox. If I'm losing ground or whatever I'll say go ahead. That's just me, not sure how others feel. It's happened like that a couple of times and everything worked out fine.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Well Ive seen guys in spits firning on a La7 at 600 away or better and losing ground, and Ive dove down to get on the la7 only to have the guy in the spit tell me to stay out of his guns.
To me he should have been the one to have stopped firing...but he'd insist I was at fault. Oh well..if folks are happy with it whatever. But how about getting a toggle for Range so I dont have to hear it?
The Spit will ping at 600 and I would bet that he is hoping to induce the La-7 to turn ... at that point the La is dead and he should rightfully be able to finish off the fight.
I have had guys ask me if I need help and if I feel that the La is pulling away, I will give them the go ahead. At least they had the courtesy to ask. I in turn do the same thing ... If I am higher, I will ask if they need help before I will drop in on the party.
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I agree Dipstick,
There is a definite ediquet and asking before you steal is one thing that seperates the good from the bad and the noobs.
What do you if you ask, get no response, fly away or take it away?
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I have had guys ask me if I need help and if I feel that the La is pulling away, I will give them the go ahead. At least they had the courtesy to ask. I in turn do the same thing ... If I am higher, I will ask if they need help before I will drop in on the party.
I agree if the person is getting out run they are out of the fight and the kill is open.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Well Ive seen guys in spits firning on a La7 at 600 away or better and losing ground, and Ive dove down to get on the la7 only to have the guy in the spit tell me to stay out of his guns.
To me he should have been the one to have stopped firing...but he'd insist I was at fault. Oh well..if folks are happy with it whatever. But how about getting a toggle for Range so I dont have to hear it?
Well, in that you did dive into his line of fire, he has a point. In that case maintain positional advantage on the enemy but stay out of the line of fire. I've scored hits @ 1K and made the enemy reverse (if he's just running straight and level for speed, I can often hit him at 1K+). I do this when it appears that no one is gaining on him. But you can't always see the guy screaming in from WAY above and behind you with 550kias.
Don't get me wrong, from a tactical standpoint you had the shot, and the other guy was wrong to waste the ammo and keep you out.
Next time, let him waste his ammunition, and let the enemy reverse and kill him, then kill the enemy after he has sacrificed his advantages to get the kill.
All it takes is a LITTLE communication. It would help a great deal if the guys zooming in just called the shot first. (Good use for range channel by the way). It really ain't that hard.
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Originally posted by mars01
I agree Dipstick,
There is a definite ediquet and asking before you steal is one thing that seperates the good from the bad and the noobs.
What do you if you ask, get no response, fly away or take it away?
If I have alt and get no response I usually jump in if it looks close and no nmes are in the immediate area. I figure if he doesn't respond he's either too busy and worried about getting shot down or needs to get a mike.
I don't vulch (much) as I don't find it a challenge and I don't participate in conga lines either. Even if I engage an nme 1 on 1 for 5 mins if 4 (buddies) show up all trying to kill him I usually break off, it just ain't cool. I don't like ganging either way.
I think we may be a dying breed tho...
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If I have alt and get no response I usually jump in if it looks close and no nmes are in the immediate area. I figure if he doesn't respond he's either too busy and worried about getting shot down or needs to get a mike.
I don't vulch (much) as I don't find it a challenge and I don't participate in conga lines either. Even if I engage an nme 1 on 1 for 5 mins if 4 (buddies) show up all trying to kill him I usually break off, it just ain't cool. I don't like ganging either way.
I think we may be a dying breed tho...
I would have to agree with that.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
I can't count .. even with an abacus ... how many times I have been saddled up on a cons 6 and had not one, but multiple people shooting over my shoulder. Geesh I hate that. Thanks for the help, but NO THANKS !!!
If my ammo were to go to zero everytime one of those bozos pinged me, I would be 1,000,000 times more pissed than if my ammo went to zero cause the bozo flew into my bullet stream.
You're right. I withdraw my suggestion.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
The Spit will ping at 600 and I would bet that he is hoping to induce the La-7 to turn ... at that point the La is dead and he should rightfully be able to finish off the fight.
I have had guys ask me if I need help and if I feel that the La is pulling away, I will give them the go ahead. At least they had the courtesy to ask. I in turn do the same thing ... If I am higher, I will ask if they need help before I will drop in on the party.
OK, ettiquette is one thing -- but just because you've been stalking a plane doesnt mean you own it. Why shouldnt someone who "bought" his position by taking the time to grab alt have a claim on his BnZ style attack? He's stalking, too -- but with a different strategy, that is no better or worse than yours.
Now, i make it a practice to ask when it looks like somebody's engaged, unless its a madhouse furball. I just dont think we can say that everyone who doesnt is morally in the wrong.
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Originally posted by Simaril
OK, ettiquette is one thing -- but just because you've been stalking a plane doesnt mean you own it. Why shouldnt someone who "bought" his position by taking the time to grab alt have a claim on his BnZ style attack? He's stalking, too -- but with a different strategy, that is no better or worse than yours.
Now, i make it a practice to ask when it looks like somebody's engaged, unless its a madhouse furball. I just dont think we can say that everyone who doesnt is morally in the wrong.
Wellllllllll ...
Many times I have fought, twisted, turned, and finally reversed a guy in what seemed to take forever (meaning - a good fight is on) and just when I am about to get a guns solutions, the "Hero" decides to fly in and save me from the guy that is on my 12, low and slow. Can you say ... pissed off !!!
I could care less if you have been climbing for 20 minutes, I don't believe that you then have the right to interject in my fight (unless asked to) and swoop away a kill that I just flew my pants off for. It just ain't right.
Your second paragraph is in the complete opposite direction of your first.
I am not attaching any morality to this ... I am just saying ... It just ain't right ... :D
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I still think that having planes on your own team be immune to your bullets is the best solution. Ammo loads are so precious that anything striking a team member is wasted lead and a penality in and of itself.
One thing that can be said for sure about the current system is that is far from realistic and totally "un-sim-like." (Unless your simulating 2nd graders saying "I'm rubber and your glue" to each other:)
-Buzzz
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Originally posted by Buzzz
I still think that having planes on your own team be immune to your bullets is the best solution. Ammo loads are so precious that anything striking a team member is wasted lead and a penality in and of itself.
One thing that can be said for sure about the current system is that is far from realistic and totally "un-sim-like." (Unless your simulating 2nd graders saying "I'm rubber and your glue" to each other:)
-Buzzz
Sorry, but I have to vehemently disagree. Friendly fire needs to eliminate an aircraft. Anything less and it fouls up to combat.
Your suggestion would lead to rapant shoulder shooting and the person flying the aircraft on the defensive would have a vastly harder job to survive.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Wellllllllll ...
Many times I have fought, twisted, turned, and finally reversed a guy in what seemed to take forever (meaning - a good fight is on) and just when I am about to get a guns solutions, the "Hero" decides to fly in and save me from the guy that is on my 12, low and slow. Can you say ... pissed off !!!
I could care less if you have been climbing for 20 minutes, I don't believe that you then have the right to interject in my fight (unless asked to) and swoop away a kill that I just flew my pants off for. It just ain't right.
Your second paragraph is in the complete opposite direction of your first.
I am not attaching any morality to this ... I am just saying ... It just ain't right ... :D
I think there's a big difference between dropping in on a combat that's closed to under 300, and the kind of thing people were describing above -- like trying to ping at 600-800. That target's fair game, though some seemed to imply that "intruding" on "their" target was at least rude.
If you'e been in extended. slow angles fight and have kept close range, you have an argument. If on the other hand, you think that since you've been eyeing a target everyone else has to stay away, I'd say go to the DA. The main arena is supposed to be a madhouse!
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The main reason I say keep it but make ammo go to "0" is to reduce the "over your shoulder" shots and so it won't affect your K/D ratio if someone does fly into your guns.
Sure there's the obvious jump in front after 5mins engaged 1 on 1 and steal my kill but I hate when I work on an nme for a bit ,get all lined up on him and tracers come over my head, he breaks just as I was pulling the trigger and I have to start over while the dweeb that fired over me overshoots and flies off. That really ticks me off.
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If on the other hand, you think that since you've been eyeing a target everyone else has to stay away, I'd say go to the DA. The main arena is supposed to be a madhouse
That I agree with, and could only be supported by the fact that you have been in the area and really know that the guy is "eyeing". I have been there and have no problem with it. Also, in that same situation, I have had people say ... "Slappy, I'm coming to your right so watch out for killshooter" ... that is most appreciated when that happens.
If you have just arrived on the scene, and have no clue as to what had transpired previously, then a simple question ... "do ya need help" ... would still be a good thing to do IMHO. If I am not gaining, I will always say ... "go for it".
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Originally posted by Simaril
If you'e been in extended. slow angles fight and have kept close range, you have an argument. If on the other hand, you think that since you've been eyeing a target everyone else has to stay away, I'd say go to the DA. The main arena is supposed to be a madhouse!
Yeah, I agree. Even if you're in slow angles, if someone else gets the kill...who cares. You beat him already anyway, that's the important part.
Plus, help is help. You might think you had him alone and you may be right...but having the possiblility of a BnZer dropping in on him definitely adversely impacts his response.
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Well most of the times Ive seen this its during a mad furball. I think few jump in the middle of a fight, especially a 1 on 1 fight without asking if they need help first.
In a furball anything can happen...between the sheer number of icons darting around and framerate drop, it makes SA harder and most times you want red, dead, sooner than later. And that leads to issues like what we've discussed.
It happens to me, and I probably do it to others...just bite your tongue and get on with it. Screaming at someone on range isnt gonna help anything.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Well most of the times Ive seen this its during a mad furball. I think few jump in the middle of a fight, especially a 1 on 1 fight without asking if they need help first.
In a furball anything can happen...between the sheer number of icons darting around and framerate drop, it makes SA harder and most times you want red, dead, sooner than later. And that leads to issues like what we've discussed.
It happens to me, and I probably do it to others...just bite your tongue and get on with it. Screaming at someone on range isnt gonna help anything.
I agree ... in a true furball, all bets are off ... first come, first served ... don't have a problem with that. "dead, sooner than later" is a great way to think about it.
All of my examples are not when engaged in a furball, plus I never yell at the guy ... just my wife, kids, dog ... or anyone that may be so lucky as to be in the room at the time.
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Filth I didn't know your thread was about what happens in a furball. Like you say anything can happen in a "real" furball so all bets are off. Still believe the 'no ammo' thing would be better even in and maybe especially in a furball situation.