Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: bustr on August 03, 2004, 12:46:20 PM
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What happened?
Last night I upped a P47D-11, shot down one 109, landed and noticed my points.
9.28 for a 109?????
Since when did that big green sheep cruncher become a perk farmer???? I checked and it's ENY is now 40??? Temps are 42 points, TA-152 are 27???? what gives???
Confused Sheep Cruncher
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Originally posted by bustr
What happened?
Last night I upped a P47D-11, shot down one 109, landed and noticed my points.
9.28 for a 109?????
Since when did that big green sheep cruncher become a perk farmer???? I checked and it's ENY is now 40??? Temps are 42 points, TA-152 are 27???? what gives???
Confused Sheep Cruncher
From Pyro's Developer Notes:
"When the new tour begins, look for some changes in plane ratings. ENY values will be updated and a few rarely used perk planes will probably see a price reduction."
COPIED These Posts From A Similiar Thread Started Last Night:
Everyone is going to have their subjective opinion of the comparative value of one plane to another. I imagine the values they come up with will be based on the mass of 3 years of data on them that has been accumulating. It's not important what we think a plane should be. The values are being changed to create a MA environment that more closely resembles HiTech's ideal. Just trust his judgement and keep the pissin' and moanin' to a dull roar.
Originally posted by Grits
Sounds like they started tweeking eh? I would guess the F4U-4, Spit 14, and Ta152 will all be lower cost.
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F4u4-35 perks
Spit14-45 perks
Ta152-20 perks
Tempest-50 perks
262-200
F4u1-C-10 perks
Me163-50 perks
Ar234-60 perks
Incidentally, although the Lgay7 was not perked, much to my personal chagrin. It's ENY value was lowered to 5 the same as the 262, basically an admission that is a perk quality plane. Comforting to know that exclusive Lgay7 drivers will only earn enough perks to fly a 262 once every 83,000 years or 4 million kills whichever comes first.
quote:
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Originally posted by Edbert MOL
Close but backwards, one earns as few points killing with an La7 as one does killing with a 262.
Misfit, regarding the "aint broke" thing...I beleive as many others do that it wasn't broken as in completely wrong but id did need some tweaking.
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Actually he is correct, here is the perk formula cut n' pasted from the help file....
"With the values listed above, if you are flying the P-51D (ENY value of 18) and you score a kill on a Panzer (ENY value of 15), you would receive (18/15) = 1.20 fighter perk points. "
So, in fact he was correct, we will receive exactly the same number of perks for killing an Lgay7 as we would for killing a 262. For example, say I am in Typhoon with an ENY value of 20 and kill an Lgay7 with an ENY value of 5...
I would get 20/5=4 fighter perks for that Lgay7.
Just for fun, let's now say I am in the newly adjusted P40B with an ENY value of 60 and kill an Lgay7 with its ENY value of 5.
I would get 60/5=12 fighter perks for that single Lgay7 kill! That's enough for a free C-Hog with ONE Lgay7 kill!
Factor these revised ENY values in with generally lower perk plane costs and well...Let's just say I'm going to get alot more trigger time in my Tempest!
LGay7 hunting season is officially OPEN!!!
I have always gone out of my way to kill Lgay7s just on principle, now, thanks to the re-balancing of the ENY value system I can continue to do so and be rewarded handsomely for my efforts, Thanks HTC!
Also, contrary to popular myth, the arena is just chock full of non-newbies who fly the Lgay7 religiously. Just check the statisitics of some of the Top 100 Fighter pilots last tour. A very healthy portion of them fly the majority of their fighter sorties in the Lgay7.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Karnak
Sample ENY Values:
La-7: 5
Me262A: 5
P-51D: 6
N1K2-J: 7
Spitfire Mk XIV: 7
Spitfire Mk IX: 8
F4U-1C: 10
P-38L: 15
Spitfire Mk Vb: 15
Fw190D-9: 18
Bf109G-10: 20
Typhoon Mk Ib: 20
Ki-61-I-Tei: 40
P-40B: 60
And it will make no difference at all.
As long as perk points are useless for anything over an F4U-1C and shy of an Me262 (and the occasional Me163) they will not be an incentive.
I've said it before and it remains true. Being artificially gangbanged is not a reward.
Look at the F4U-1C. It is controled by it's 12 point perk price, yet is still used because it doesn't come with a neon "Hey everybody, come kill me!!!" icon like the others do.
I simply do not understand why HiTech sees it as so important for perk planes to be hunted when most of them have very marginal performance advantages or only advantages as an overall package that are easily wiped away by simple numbers. Too many perk planes are slower than common free aircraft to make them at all desirable to fly when coupled with the fact that you know enemy in the area will recklessly try to kill you.
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I kind of disagree, but we'll have to wait and see how things play out to determine if my rationale is correct. I disagree on the basis of economics, perk economics. With ENY values increased for most early/mid-war planes, decreased for late-war planes and perk plane costs decreased across the board except for the overly popular C-hog and 262 something interesting will likely happen.
What I think will happen is alot of people will fly the more mediocre perk planes such as the Tempest, F4u4, and Spit14. Due to the fact most of the late-war rides have ENY values at or close to perk planes they will be the targets of choice for perk planes and the average pilot as they are worth alot of perks per kill. Compound this with the increased reward for flying early/mid-war rides and you can see that a trend will be forming. You will see alot more early/mid-war rides, alot less late-war rides and alot more mediocre perk planes. I believe HTC is thinking along these lines as well.
The gang-bang the perk plane phenomena is true to a point. But, if your average 25 on 25 furball for a base now has 5 of these mediocre perk planes involved on each side the ability for anyone to give any one perk plane an inordinate amount of attention is decreased greatly. The gang-bang phenomena occurs primarily because the mediocre perk planes are a rare sight indeed, a novelty. Killing them is a matter of pride and a badge of honor. If, however, they are a 1 in 10 sighting rather than a 1 in 100 sighting and worth no more than an Lgay7, Niki, Spit9 or P51D per kill the novelty of killing them will quickly wear off.
Zazen
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This post belongs in the general discussion forum not here....but...HTC has tweaked the ratings of most of the planes and adjusted the cost of the perk rides. In my opinion he's trying to (and it will succeed to some extent) increase the number of sorties made in early and mid-war planes and decrease the number of sorties flown in the late-war rides. The ENY of an La7 is about the same as a 262 now, can you say "open season on the elGay"? I knew you could :D
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DOUHH sorry guys just found this thread. Got my answer.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125705
Guess I should fly at least 1 mission a night with the P47D-11 to keep up my Tempest addiction---->>>>:D
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As long as perk points are useless for anything over an F4U-1C and shy of an Me262 (and the occasional Me163) they will not be an incentive.
If i can make 40 points in 4 kills with my regular midwar rides, spending 40 points on a spit14, say every 3rd sortie, would be cheap even if I loose them. for someone who flies P51s / La7s 40 perks will be expensive.
The "kill-me" neon sign is annoying, but as mentioned above, if perks planes are not so rare, the incentive will be lost. The best place to fly a perk ride is near other perk rides.
I hope this will work.
Bozon
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Re-posting this here to consolidate the three threads on this topic:
The ENY value is used to determine the perk point rewards for air to air kills.
For example if a P40B with an ENY value of 60 kills an Lgay7 with an ENY value of 5 the fighter perk points awarded are calculated like this:
60/5=12 fighter perk points for the P40B driver (enough to purchase a C-Hog with one kill)
Converesely, if the Lgay7 were to kill the P40B he would be awarded fighter perk points like this:
5/60=0.08 fighter perk points for the Lgay7 driver
So, an Lgay7 driver would have to kill 2,500 P40s to earn enough perk points for a 262 Jet. But, the P40 driver would only have to kill just over 16 Lgay7's to earn his 262 jet.
These calculations do not include the country perk bonus modifier which acts as a multiplier upon the above perk point award figures.
Zazen
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Actually he is correct, here is the perk formula cut n' pasted from the help file....
"With the values listed above, if you are flying the P-51D (ENY value of 18) and you score a kill on a Panzer (ENY value of 15), you would receive (18/15) = 1.20 fighter perk points. "
So, in fact he was correct, we will receive exactly the same number of perks for killing an Lgay7 as we would for killing a 262. For example, say I am in Typhoon with an ENY value of 20 and kill an Lgay7 with an ENY value of 5...
I would get 20/5=4 fighter perks for that Lgay7.
Just for fun, let's now say I am in the newly adjusted P40B with an ENY value of 60 and kill an Lgay7 with its ENY value of 5.
I would get 60/5=12 fighter perks for that single Lgay7 kill! That's enough for a free C-Hog with ONE Lgay7 kill!
Factor these revised ENY values in with generally lower perk plane costs and well...Let's just say I'm going to get alot more trigger time in my Tempest!
LGay7 hunting season is officially OPEN!!!
I have always gone out of my way to kill Lgay7s just on principle, now, thanks to the re-balancing of the ENY value system I can continue to do so and be rewarded handsomely for my efforts, Thanks HTC!
Also, contrary to popular myth, the arena is just chock full of non-newbies who fly the Lgay7 religiously. Just check the statisitics of some of the Top 100 Fighter pilots last tour. A very healthy portion of them fly the majority of their fighter sorties in the Lgay7.
Zazen
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bozon,
Afford has nothing to do with it. I can afford dozens of them.
If it isn't fun, and it isn't, then it isn't a motivation to earn perk points.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
...These calculations do not include the country perk bonus modifier which acts as a multiplier upon the above perk point award figures...
Nor do they include the landing bonus multiplier.
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Originally posted by bustr
Guess I should fly at least 1 mission a night with the P47D-11 to keep up my Tempest addiction---->>>>:D
I just don't "get" the Tempest with that enormous perk cost. Especially with the big red "GANG ME" sign it drags behind it...
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Originally posted by Hyrax81st
I just don't "get" the Tempest with that enormous perk cost. Especially with the big red "GANG ME" sign it drags behind it...
The Tempest is a beast. In my humble opinion a 50 perk Tempest is a fire sale bargain! You have to really screw up badly or have a massive brain fart implosion to lose a Tempest.
Zazen
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La7's are now 5 ENY?? Wooot!!!! Gonna hunt those bastiges and rack up perks in my P40! Kill em all! Hunt em like jets!! :lol
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Originally posted by Stang
La7's are now 5 ENY?? Wooot!!!! Gonna hunt those bastiges and rack up perks in my P40! Kill em all! Hunt em like jets!! :lol
You betcha Stang! Lgay7 hunting season is permanently OPEN!!!!
Zazen
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I still cant believe they lowered the 190A8 nmy value. WTH is that about?:confused:
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Originally posted by Zazen13
The Tempest is a beast. In my humble opinion a 50 perk Tempest is a fire sale bargain! You have to really screw up badly or have a massive brain fart implosion to lose a Tempest.
Zazen
Well... I don't fly it enough to fly it well. I am not that tempted to fly one. The times I have seen them, they're way, way up in the air and whenever they do descend - they quickly leave with 7 enemy planes chasing it for two sectors...
Can you shoot down enough planes in one sorty (with it's ENY) to make the 50 perks worth it ? It's not like the 262 or 163 that actually have useful missions they can run, is it ?
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Originally posted by Hyrax81st
Well... I don't fly it enough to fly it well. I am not that tempted to fly one. The times I have seen them, they're way, way up in the air and whenever they do descend - they quickly leave with 7 enemy planes chasing it for two sectors...
Can you shoot down enough planes in one sorty (with it's ENY) to make the 50 perks worth it ? It's not like the 262 or 163 that actually have useful missions they can run, is it ?
Hmm, I think you're seeing noobs in it. The Tempest is best 12k-18k. Why it would be run down to the deck by any prop fighter is beyond me as it is faster in the level and accelerates better than any prop fighter in the set. Combine that with 4 Hizookas and well, like I said above, you'd have to make a tremendous error in tactical judgement to run amok in the Tempest.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Zazen13
you'd have to make a tremendous error in tactical judgement to run amok in the Tempest.
I lost one the other day with kills in the bag while landing. I dunno if it is a bug or not but I was on final approach, full flaps, ~110MPH, 100feet. I dropped the gear and the nose SUDDENLY pointed down as if I had autopilot on ".speed 200" or something. WHAM!
I agree the Tempest is a beast though, fastest prop plane in the game at around 15K, doesn't do too bad as a stall-fighter for a 1945 (is that right?) airframe either.
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Tempest is the da-beast
only if it had more range i would fly nothing but it and fly planes just to fly it more:D
i wish we had a perk plane with long range besides the TA152 that does not need 2 drop tanks !
Sea hornet:D comes to mind
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Originally posted by Edbert MOL
I lost one the other day with kills in the bag while landing. I dunno if it is a bug or not but I was on final approach, full flaps, ~110MPH, 100feet. I dropped the gear and the nose SUDDENLY pointed down as if I had autopilot on ".speed 200" or something. WHAM!
I agree the Tempest is a beast though, fastest prop plane in the game at around 15K, doesn't do too bad as a stall-fighter for a 1945 (is that right?) airframe either.
You were too slow when you dropped your gear, gear creates alot of drag, you basically stalled it in nose first. Try dropping gear just under 200 then deploying flaps, etc.
Zazen