Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: rod367th on August 04, 2004, 12:10:45 PM
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Was fighting a p38 coalt at A7 today and boom flak kills me on his 6. 20k dogfight, Like real flak gunners going to fire at friendly. And 2 nd burts kills me. Normal flak would be nice 17 sorties is all I've flown and 6 have been ended by 20 k flak at bases.
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I'm with ya Rod, I've had it end my sortie a few times as well. Seems to have incredible range. Perhaps if these puffy ack guns were actual "things" that you could strafe and destroy, then it may be better.
--Mike/Howitzer
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They are called "soft gun battery"
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Originally posted by g00b
They are called "soft gun battery"
Yeah, what g00b said, we need to be able to destroy some of these here "thingamajiggers" :p
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Here is the answer your looking for.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=124987&referrerid=7566
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tw9 germans broke off when they knew they where entering flak area in this game flak fires perfectly at just enemy plane. like someone said you play a game with real people for enjoyment not to be killed by AI........
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
Here is the answer your looking for.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=124987&referrerid=7566
was no anwsers there..........
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Originally posted by rod367th
was no anwsers there..........
second post of the thread linked, HiTech says no plans on changing it.
FYI in case you missed it, really small post.
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copy thanks
PS asked for dale or skuzzy to clear up hq asked that only or dale answer my guess 15 guys will post even tho asked not to. Whats your best guess lol.
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Think Rod stewart said it best - "some guys have all the luck"....
I haven't been hit by puffy ack unless it was over nme cv....and I was diving on it :)
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88's ruin alot of good fights. It ruins and has ruined many good sorties. Compared to AH1 88's are more ubber now than hispanios and I wont even begin to talk about the unrealistic accuracy of the crap.
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I was in a P51B fighting a typhoon at 28k alt and a cv some god-knows-how-freaking-far-off nailed my oil cooler as I was doing 300+mph (IAS, not TAS). That's BS. Flak accuract got WORSE the higher you were and the faser you flew. That's how it was in reality.
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And thats exactly what it does in AH Krusty. It becomes less acturate based on your speed,how much your turing, and how far away you are. But less accurate does NOT meen you cant be hit.
So far the post I see referancing the ack is that it kills you on rare ocasions. Well isn't that exactly what it suppose to do. If you want to make a case for it to be changed. Do some testing. Spend a few hours flying threw ack and find out how often it realy does hit you.
HiTech
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I seem to get hit 1/3 or so i go into it.
But i am starting to think HT modelled it that way just to spite me! it has FurDar or something.
I even get hit regularly by own ack, be it small arms or puffy.
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HiTech,
In my experience I think the frequency of an 88 hit on a manuevering fighter is a wee bit high. No specific testing outside of hundreds of hours in the MA.
Regardless, I think the part that gets most people (myself included) is the INSTANT DEATH. No losing an aileron or an engine oil hit, with 88's it's INSTANT DEATH almost every time. If even 50% of 88 hits were surviveable you wouldn't hear as much whining.
g00b
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If i had to guess, I would say I get hit (no damge or flyable damage) by the puffy ack about 3 to 4 times more often than I get insta-killed by it.
...but, the insta-kill when you are fast and manuevering is about 3 to 4 times more annoying than just about any other thing in the game. :D
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Where 88 ("friendly" 88's) has hit me is while you are chasing an enemy plane. The 88's then miss the bad guy and nail you instead.
During the 88's "miss the enemy" routine god help you if you are close to the bad guy. I suppose the moral of the story is don't chase enemy plane near your field or take your chances.
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But less accurate does NOT meen you cant be hit.
So by a random factor, no matter how well I jink, turn, speed up, slow down, I am guarnteed to die by AI ack at some point.
Since AH2 I have died almost nightly by AI 88s. In AH1 I cannot remember ever dying in it. How much was this random hit percentage changed? Or am I just extremely unlucky?
RHIN0
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never have been hit by it HTC and i been playing AH2 since day 1
tho i was hit 1 time by Manned 5 inch cv flak
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morpheus or others hit what plane were you in. 4 of mine were p38's? rest 51's
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I think it would be cool if they changed the 88 from AI
to mannable positions. Then the acuracy would vary and
be more realistic.
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Like I've said before: This is a massively multi-player game. AI has no business killing players in this game. If I wanted to fly against AI and be killed by AI I would play Il2FB, a game that is a lot better than AH in every way except multi player. AI guns that randomly kill players is the most annoying "feature" of AH.
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Can we strafe the 88s and take them down?
Originally posted by hitech
And thats exactly what it does in AH Krusty. It becomes less acturate based on your speed,how much your turing, and how far away you are. But less accurate does NOT meen you cant be hit.
So far the post I see referancing the ack is that it kills you on rare ocasions. Well isn't that exactly what it suppose to do. If you want to make a case for it to be changed. Do some testing. Spend a few hours flying threw ack and find out how often it realy does hit you.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
And thats exactly what it does in AH Krusty. It becomes less acturate based on your speed,how much your turing, and how far away you are. But less accurate does NOT meen you cant be hit.
So far the post I see referancing the ack is that it kills you on rare ocasions. Well isn't that exactly what it suppose to do. If you want to make a case for it to be changed. Do some testing. Spend a few hours flying threw ack and find out how often it realy does hit you.
HiTech
i know you "know" the game, but have you TRIED flying through flak?
it doesnt make a blind bit of difference if im turning, or flying straight and level, it kills me 1/3-1/2 of the time. Yet if i up some bombers they can fly straight and level and never get downed, unless its a freak hit....... ive NEVER died from a 88 hit when flying buffs. yet if im in a fighter im always getting hit. How does a turning, alt changing, fast fighter get hit by ack?
oh and what about it firing through hills too? now thats a joke, you telling me you wont fix that EITHER?
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Originally posted by Muddie
Can we strafe the 88s and take them down?
The 88mm flak guns are capable of being destroyed by strafing. You just have to avoid the 37mm field ack.
MiG
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Originally posted by Zanth
I suppose the moral of the story is don't chase enemy plane near your field or take your chances.
Hehehe.. boy that sure makes for some great gameplay... :eek:
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Originally posted by hitech
And thats exactly what it does in AH Krusty. It becomes less acturate based on your speed,how much your turing, and how far away you are. But less accurate does NOT meen you cant be hit.
So far the post I see referancing the ack is that it kills you on rare ocasions. Well isn't that exactly what it suppose to do. If you want to make a case for it to be changed. Do some testing. Spend a few hours flying threw ack and find out how often it realy does hit you.
HiTech
A case for change? Is that not what this thread and others like are doing??
Find out how often it really does hit you?? Why dont you just tell us the pre-programmed odds you have given the AI that it might kill us in a massive HUMANplayer game??? As 'random' as it seems there must still be a set of odds placed somewhere...
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2x post 8(
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I fly in puffy ack all the time.
I just ignore it as I rarely get hit by it let alone killed by it.
I think once two weeks ago or so it pinged me.
Just scratched the paintjob and no damage.
Probably been a few months since I've been killed by it
You guys must be flakmagnets or something
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I fly in puffy ack all the time.
I just ignore it as I rarely get hit by it let alone killed by it.
I think once two weeks ago or so it pinged me.
Just scratched the paintjob and no damage.
Probably been a few months since I've been killed by it
You guys must be flakmagnets or something
DREDIOCK maybe its flying style. You may not be as aggressively flying near or around this stuff. If you are primaraly upping base defense then no you wouldnt die in it. However If you take your squad in, drop eggs on the FH, and attempt to straffe down acks while fighting off agressors. Two of your 10 pilots are killed/lose engine/oil or damaged in some other way by the puffy stuff prior to going in or fighting the bad guys.
I have no probs dying by someones hand " I do it regularly". I just dont like being killed by AI. I play this game for the challenge of fighting another human. There is no way to win at this AI88 game. You can jink, turn, change speed/alt and by a random factor you will die. It just ruins a flight thats all.
If it stays the same fine. I would just like to know the rules ie.
1. What do I need to do to cause a miss?
2. What percentage will I be hit?
3. Is there a difference between fighter and bomber hit %?
4. Why doesnt AI88s stop when enemy fighters are near?
5. Does enemy fighters receive damage from there own AI88s?
6. Why do AI88s fire over mountains?
I hate flying blind. Let us know the rules and I think this thread would end.
RHIN0
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Originally posted by kevykev56
DREDIOCK maybe its flying style. You may not be as aggressively flying near or around this stuff. If you are primaraly upping base defense then no you wouldnt die in it. However If you take your squad in, drop eggs on the FH, and attempt to straffe down acks while fighting off agressors. Two of your 10 pilots are killed/lose engine/oil or damaged in some other way by the puffy stuff prior to going in or fighting the bad guys.
I have no probs dying by someones hand " I do it regularly". I just dont like being killed by AI. I play this game for the challenge of fighting another human. There is no way to win at this AI88 game. You can jink, turn, change speed/alt and by a random factor you will die. It just ruins a flight thats all.
If it stays the same fine. I would just like to know the rules ie.
RHIN0
I rarely fly base defence.I beleive if all you do is is fly defence over your own base all your accomplishing is barely delaying the inevitable loss of your base.
If anything Im almost always in attack mode. Best defence is to stay on the offencive. Which is why I am usually outnumbered 6-1 and more often then not more 95% of the time I fight.
But I've sometimes loitered in the puffy ack leisurly flying around in circles and rarely get hit by it.
Often when flying ot a base my coarse puts me right over an enemy factory or other instalation.
If there arent any enemies in the area Im on autopilot and just cruise right over them and dont even bother touching the joystick when the puffy ack starts bursting and barely even bother paying attention to it other then to admire how cool it looks.
On the other hand what usually does nail me is the smaller calibre unmanned feild ack.
LOL there are times when I seem to attract that stuff like fleas to an old dog no matter how I fly
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Originally posted by kevykev56
5. Does enemy fighters receive damage from there own AI88s?
RHIN0
Near as I can tell. No
I know I have never been shot down or damaged from fire from my own AA guns
Nor do I personally know anyone who has
There was some clown claiming it did on a thread a month or so ago. but he was revealed to be just that.
A clown
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Originally posted by Ohio330
I think it would be cool if they changed the 88 from AI
to mannable positions. Then the acuracy would vary and
be more realistic.
I think it would be cool if we had a combination of both.
I dont agree that AI AA guns have no buisness being in this game.
that is untill we can get enough players willing to gun ALL the positions all the time.
Without the AI ack somebases would be almost completely defenceless. and make base captures entirely too easy.
Unless you want to have less bases. Which doesnt seem to be the desire of the current player base at this time
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
88's ruin alot of good fights. It ruins and has ruined many good sorties. Compared to AH1 88's are more ubber now than hispanios and I wont even begin to talk about the unrealistic accuracy of the crap.
somehow I'd be willing to bet that 88's ruined alot of good flights in real life too.
8th airforce lost and had damaged quite a few planes to enemy ack in WWII
so it couldnt be all that unrealistic
Want the proof?
German flak batteries always set their aim on the lead aircraft of a formation and often hit them. A shell struck this 91BG lead while bomb doors were open and radome extended. Despite the gaping wound the bomber was brought back for a safe landing at Rackheath, November 6, 1944.
Source: Mighty Eighth War Diary by Roger A. Freeman
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/body/side4.gif)
And
This B-17 took a direct flak hit in the waist over Debrecen, Hungary which killed three crewmen and wounded two others. Threatening to come apart in mid-air the pilot nursed it home to a safe landing, but the weakened fuselage collapsed on touchdown.
Text and photo source: Air Classics magazine, July 1972
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/body/sidehole.jpg)
BTW HTC
any Chances we will see this kinda damage shown visially in AHII?
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/contents.htm (http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/contents.htm)
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
somehow I'd be willing to bet that 88's ruined alot of good flights in real life too.
8th airforce lost and had damaged quite a few planes to enemy ack in WWII
so it couldnt be all that unrealistic
Want the proof?
German flak batteries always set their aim on the lead aircraft of a formation and often hit them. A shell struck this 91BG lead while bomb doors were open and radome extended. Despite the gaping wound the bomber was brought back for a safe landing at Rackheath, November 6, 1944.
Source: Mighty Eighth War Diary by Roger A. Freeman
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/body/side4.gif)
And
This B-17 took a direct flak hit in the waist over Debrecen, Hungary which killed three crewmen and wounded two others. Threatening to come apart in mid-air the pilot nursed it home to a safe landing, but the weakened fuselage collapsed on touchdown.
Text and photo source: Air Classics magazine, July 1972
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/body/sidehole.jpg)
BTW HTC
any Chances we will see this kinda damage shown visially in AHII?
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/contents.htm (http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/contents.htm)
you prove our point exactly though dred, that is a B17 its a BOMBER, BIG, slow and loads of tight formations of B17s are easy targets for 88's, NOT a turning, fast, small fighter
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Originally posted by Overlag
you prove our point exactly though dred, that is a B17 its a BOMBER, BIG, slow and loads of tight formations of B17s are easy targets for 88's, NOT a turning, fast, small fighter
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It's just like herd animals - the more clump together, the less chance a particular individual (all other things being equal) will be picked off. At the same time, the chance for the predator to get at least one kill goes way up.
The B-17 survived some amazing amounts of flak damage because it was a great design - and wasn't pressurized.
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That 2nd B17 pic is just amazing and rather sobering, guess the waist gunners never knew what hit them.
Its been a while since I played due to the shocking realisation that the world doesn't owe me a living but overall I'd say the 88's seem a bit flakey (hehe) specially when it comes to firing through hills. I ditched near a field in beta, completely out of line of sight yet had flak bursts going off around me. Strangely none of them hit.
I have taken all kinds of damage from them though, from insta pilot kills to losing oil so I think thats about right.
It is a bummer dieing to AI online but I guess its the only way to give a base some defense before people realise whats going on. It would be nice to have auto ack until someone jumps in the position.
Lastly, someone mentioned il2 which is where I've been getting my fix recently. Apart from being driven insane by the continuous whine of the constant speed props (one good reason to fly blue), I'd say the ack there is much less accurate.
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Originally posted by Overlag
you prove our point exactly though dred, that is a B17 its a BOMBER, BIG, slow and loads of tight formations of B17s are easy targets for 88's, NOT a turning, fast, small fighter
Not to mention the ack was controlled by a human. I almost always get pilot wound or wing shot off ( and I NEVER fly straight through it). I like the look of the puffy ack but I would really like to see it manned ONLY. We have the base under attack message and flashing bases, if nobody grabs a gun then we should lose the base. IMHO.
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I was 5 miles or more at 12K from a city & the 88's scored a direct hit on it's first shot. Could not figure out what hit me at first but then I started to hear and see the flak. And don't say someone shot me down because no one got a kill on me.
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Originally posted by kevykev56
5. Does enemy fighters receive damage from there own AI88s?
I have been destroyed by it, directly over our own base. If it shoots at you I can tell you it hurts. Friendlies in area thought it was quite entertaining to see me go "poof" as I was right on an enemy p47's 6 at the time - the enemy p47 was zooming out after dropping bombs, I got between the 88's and him - the 88 won.
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Originally posted by Overlag
you prove our point exactly though dred, that is a B17 its a BOMBER, BIG, slow and loads of tight formations of B17s are easy targets for 88's, NOT a turning, fast, small fighter
No The pics just show the bombers survived it better
Lt. Lenton F. Kirkland, Jr., a P-38 ace with the 474th FG 429 FS is downed by flak and killed near Liège.
Raymond V. Hearn, No.112 Squadron, Fano, Italy, during Febuary 1945. Hearn flew two tours with No.112 Sqn on Kittyhawks and Mustangs. He was the leader of B Flight and used the individual letter "Q" on his aircraft. He downed a Ju 188 in this machine on 9 September 1944, even though only one of his four guns was working. He was killed on what would have been his last sortie on 18 Febuary 1945, his plane exploding after being hit by flak.
(http://www.web-birds.com/8th/352/luthpic3t.jpg)
Lt. Col. Luther H. Richmond, (left) CO 486th FS, talking with friend Lt. Col. W. Chamberlain, squadron commander in the 388th BG. Chamberlain had flown into Bodney in his B-17 to test fly Richmond's P-51B, code PZ-R, serial 43-7196. Chamberlain was KIA over the coast of France due to flak in May 1944, while Richmond was downed by flak and made POW April 15th, 1944. This photo from the first two weeks of April 1944 shows the Mustang sans the later sweeping blue nose treatment, applied to 352nd FG fighters a few weeks after this photo was taken
" On April 16th, 8th AF fighters from 15 groups claim the record of 747 LW planes destroyed on the ground while strafing airfields in Germany and Czechoslovakia, 34 American fighters are downed mostly by light flak and small arms and 30 LW planes are downed in dog-fights."--American Wings over Belgium
(http://www.cybermodeler.com/history/354fg/images/52572act.jpg)
July 1944 - Lt. Gen. Lewis H. Brereton, Commanding General of the Ninth Air Force, pins the Distinguished Flying Cross on 1st Lt. William Y. Anderson 354 fighter group(left) of Chicago, Ill., in ceremonies on an air strip on the Cherbourg peninsula of France. Also: Lt. Anderson's plane "Swede's Steed" caught fire during a raid over Hanover, Germany when he was hit by flak. He beat out the flames, suffering blisters on his legs. In 49 sorties, he was hit five times by flak, downed two enemy aircraft, and damaged five others (7 Kills). He was 22 years old at the time the photo was taken.
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Rod, u a rook now? if so, 20k? what are u doing on the deck anyway?
Last I read, Rook SOP for bomb runs is STRATOSHPHERE MINIMUM!!!!!!!!!
theres your problem!
if ya are rook that is?
LMAO:rofl
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I think some people have a problem distinguishing between ack and flak. In AH game terms ack is the light AAA and flak is the 88s. In R/L no such distinction was made and those US fighters were probably lost to light AAA while attacking ground targets.
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Originally posted by GScholz
I think some people have a problem distinguishing between ack and flak. In AH game terms ack is the light AAA and flak is the 88s. In R/L no such distinction was made and those US fighters were probably lost to light AAA while attacking ground targets.
You arent honestly gonna suggest that we didnt loose any fighters to 88s are ya?
And I suppose the Japs never lost any of their fighters to Puffy ack?
I personally know an eyewitness that would tell you otherwise.
Actually the sites I got the info from did distinguish between "light AA" and Flak.
Bottom line is as it is so often put. this is a WWII air combat sim.
Flack and light ack were both things that the fliers of all sides had to deal with.
And so it is here. And correctly so
Also if memory serves correct most of the time the fighters from both sides wouldnt go with the bombers directly over the target area where the Flak was thickest.
Which would better explain why not as many fighters got knocked down by Flack
It might be a good idea to simply stay away from the Flak range just as the fighters did in the war. Whenever possible that is
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I did not say that. Don't put words in my mouth.
Sure fighters were being hit by flak (not flack), but those were flukes rather then the daily multiple event that it is in the MA.
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Rod, check this site;
88mm flak (http://www.strategyplanet.com/commandos/88mm.html)
Alt range of 88mm flak with proxi shell, was 10000m=30000fts,
Why not to get killed at 20000 ft, 6600m??
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Well Wasn't a lone flak gun anywhere in ww2. In here a lone 88 will kill you if you vircle enemy base. And from stories I've heard and read, Flak gunners would never open up on lone high fighter. Too much waste of ammo with little chance of hitting it. And you can bet 88 guns wouldn't fire at thier own fighters fighting a fighter. Now don't tell me fighter breaking off so ack can shoot we all know that was fighters attacking bombers. See many layouts of airfields enemy and friendly I can not remember seeing 1 88 at any base.
As a matter of fact Bristish Bombers use to straffe fields after bombing. Making germans wake up.
Bet if germans had AH2 88's they wouldv'e won war 1 shot 1 kill
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5. Does enemy fighters receive damage from there own AI88s?
Answered my own question last night. Was in the CT chasing a A6M away from my carrier. Only two NME up in the area and both were in my forward view. Ship puffy ack was firing at the A6M in front of me when I was hit by the puffy stuff. It only put a hole in my canopy and didnt insta kill me. So it does appear that Puffy ack will hit friendly Aircraft.
RHIN0
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one isnstance of puffy ack pissing me off was when i was in a 110 NOE rtb'ing back to base. NOE meaning as low as i can get, which was several thousand feet due to the mountains. the puffy ack was shooting at me still!!! not more than 50 ft off the ground and its shooting at me. not to mention the fact that the base was hidden behind the hills. just really gets on my nerves. but hey, it isnt that important, it never hit me. kept trying to avoid it while avoiding the 6 planes behind me. while i was avoiding the ack, i was wasting precious speed that allowed the planes behind me to eventually catch me, though i was so close to base.
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Originally posted by rod367th
Well Wasn't a lone flak gun anywhere in ww2. In here a lone 88 will kill you if you vircle enemy base.
Maybe it kills you. but for some reason it rarely ever even scratches me.
In fact I have film of a flight I took last night I was leisurly cruising right over an enemy base. ack going off all around.
Didnt so much as scratch my paint
Its the smaller suff that nails me.
Not the puffy ack
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Originally posted by xBarrelx
one isnstance of puffy ack pissing me off was when i was in a 110 NOE rtb'ing back to base. NOE meaning as low as i can get, which was several thousand feet due to the mountains. the puffy ack was shooting at me still!!! not more than 50 ft off the ground and its shooting at me. not to mention the fact that the base was hidden behind the hills. just really gets on my nerves. but hey, it isnt that important, it never hit me. kept trying to avoid it while avoiding the 6 planes behind me. while i was avoiding the ack, i was wasting precious speed that allowed the planes behind me to eventually catch me, though i was so close to base.
How about when you spawn in towards an enemy base in your GV and discover you are at some altitude (on the ground still) that is high enough for the base PUFFY FLAK to start firing at your spawn point ?
LOL !
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Nah, leave it the way it is. Its your problem for not maneuvering around the flak. As long as you dont stick to a linear line from when it starts to when it ends, you should be fine. Thats how the ack zero's in. It reads your position from the last time it fire and assumes where you will be next. If you keep moving from side to side, drop and lose a little alt, it shouldnt beat ya up too bad.
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Originally posted by Mak333
Nah, leave it the way it is. Its your problem for not maneuvering around the flak. As long as you dont stick to a linear line from when it starts to when it ends, you should be fine. Thats how the ack zero's in. It reads your position from the last time it fire and assumes where you will be next. If you keep moving from side to side, drop and lose a little alt, it shouldnt beat ya up too bad.
Lmao I dont even bother to do that. I just leave it on auto pilot and fly away.
No jinking swerving or any evasives whatsoever
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Originally posted by Mak333
Nah, leave it the way it is. Its your problem for not maneuvering around the flak. As long as you dont stick to a linear line from when it starts to when it ends, you should be fine. Thats how the ack zero's in. It reads your position from the last time it fire and assumes where you will be next. If you keep moving from side to side, drop and lose a little alt, it shouldnt beat ya up too bad.
Lmao I dont even bother to do that. I just leave it on auto pilot and fly away.
No jinking swerving or any evasives whatsoever
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Deaf ears make me a sad sad panda... :confused: :confused: :confused:
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The 88 in AH2 are BS. It's getting to the point were I am thinking about canceling because of it. Twice in one day I was in a very good fight at 10K and I was killed by 88's. There is no point in paying for a game when I can't enjoy a good fight when one presents its self. If I want to play against a computer I would not be paying 14.95 a month. This is realy starting to make me angry.
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Damn, no idea where the thread went...
Just kept looking for another Morpheus post.
Love them avatars man lol :aok!