Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: hitech on August 04, 2004, 12:17:56 PM
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To see what happens, am considering locking all in threads in the General Discussion ,for a week if any of the following apear.
1. Any flame of some ones post, not a counter discusion, but a flame. Also flame baits.
2. Any personal attacks.
3. A whine, not a suggest ,critisim or view, but the over the top stuff.
What do you guys think is it worth a try to see if it changes the general flavor?
HiTech
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I think it's a great idea! :D
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Sounds good.
Whatcha wanna bet the # of posts per day drops by 75% or more? :D
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LOL stop HT you're killing me.... :lol
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Holy Crap! Best idea EVAR!
ps. Arlo is a poopy head
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"I can imagine any number of disgruntled former forum members tripping over themselves to create shades accounts for the sole purpose of shutting down the boards.
Is it wise to put the fate of the forum in the hands of the miscreants?
-- Todd/Leviathn"
Thats what I see happening also .... and they will just move there flame /attack to anouther thread /oc/h2h/ect
Id say Give Skuzzy ectra bribs and Give the offenders a time out (temp ban ) that seams to work fairly well .
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Did I say it was a great idea, yet? Bestest evar. I like it. :D
IN
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Originally posted by Estes
ps. Arlo is a poopy head
Personal attack personal attack!
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It certainly couldn't hurt.
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Originally posted by DipStick
Personal attack personal attack!
And just how in the hell do you know I'm not a poopy head? Huh?
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Heck just do it for a week anyway. Also, why not lock the MA and have everyone else go to the CT?
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Thinking of amending rules to thread stealing.
HiTech
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Did I say it was a great idea, yet? Bestest evar. I like it. :D
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Originally posted by hitech
To see what happens, am considering locking all in threads in the General Discussion ,for a week if any of the following apear.
1. Any flame of some ones post, not a counter discusion, but a flame. Also flame baits.
2. Any personal attacks.
3. A whine, not a suggest ,critisim or view, but the over the top stuff.
What do you guys think is it worth a try to see if it changes the general flavor?
HiTech
I dont think its much of an idea. But it will certainly keep you busy for a week.
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Quick .... go left with the tread !!! No to the right .... Quick ...
look out ........I hear the thread police.....
In there Quick :D
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Ok Arlo: You get your gold star in the grade book. Now how about telling us why you think that?
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What don't you like pongo?
Hitech
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Originally posted by hitech
Thinking of amending rules to thread stealing.
HiTech
LOL ... and Arlo everybody knows that only nopoop is a poopy head.
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Originally posted by hitech
Ok Arlo: You get your gold star in the grade book. Now how about telling us why you think that?
Hey. I'm not stupid! No really.
The reason this is a good idea
-by Arlo
Because it's HiTech's idea.
The end.
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HT with every good idea, there is always the "griefer" aspect that Leviathn has alluded to and quoted by Roo.
It would appear that you will now have to spend more time deciding if a post, that violates the rules, was a true violation, in the spirit of the rule, or was it one of your detractors in griefer mode hoping to cause the lock.
I don't think that it would work as you might hope it would.
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Hitech could you do the same for the Combat Forum?
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Originally posted by hitech
To see what happens, am considering locking all in threads in the General Discussion ,for a week if any of the following apear.
1. Any flame of some ones post, not a counter discusion, but a flame. Also flame baits.
2. Any personal attacks.
3. A whine, not a suggest ,critisim or view, but the over the top stuff.
What do you guys think is it worth a try to see if it changes the general flavor?
HiTech
It's kind of a shame that would have to be done, but I guess I can understand why.
I would be more curious to find out why there seems to be so much flame & hatred, back-lashing and accusing.
The boards never seemed to be this way before {IMO} not saying that some heated debates didn't break out once in a while, but not to this extent.
For some reason or another ever since the release of AH2 the BB has been a breeding grounds for "come take your frustrations out here" type of mentality. I would honestly say that I would have to be included in the population also.
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i think its good..
another idea would be for the thread starter tobe able remove (not edit) hi-jackers from his/ her threads..
what i hate most is personal attacks, racisim, profanity and HI-JACKERS
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Originally posted by hitech
To see what happens, am considering locking all in threads in the General Discussion ,for a week if any of the following apear.
1. Any flame of some ones post, not a counter discusion, but a flame. Also flame baits.
2. Any personal attacks.
3. A whine, not a suggest ,critisim or view, but the over the top stuff.
What do you guys think is it worth a try to see if it changes the general flavor?
HiTech
It is not an idea without merit.
However, I think it will come across as heavy handed.
There will be the perception of favoritism, because the judgement of violations will be subjective. No matter what you do or say, unless you lock every thread with even the slightest hint of any violation, someone will feel singled out. Or they'll feel some one else is getting awaywith something.
I'm not saying it would be intentional, I'm saying what you feel will not be the same as what some one else does.
I think it will lead to a massive overload for Skuzzy. It may even lead to banning people when things get out of hand.
Of course, I could be completely wrong.
It is, of course, your board.
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As an experiment?
I would do it for a week, and see what happens.
Thinking before we actually post something?
what a novel idea!
Capital One Hitech!
Good show and all that;)
RTR (can I have a gold star too?)
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Agree with the items you posted MOIL. But can't decide if your on the worth a try or not side?
HiTech
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I spend alot of time in here. There is a certain mindset that has remained fairly constant through the last couple of years.
A general knowlege of where the "line" was drawn.
That changed a few weeks ago with a series of threads, one of which is still up after being moved and has 1755 replies in the O'Club.
Those series of threads and their allowence to continue changed the mindset here.
I think I know why they remained unlocked, but for a good deal of people they took that as a "relaxing" of the rules.
A face value kinda thing.
Could be wrong
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just code the editor to allow in acceptable wording:
"love" "ah" "best" "109f" , you get the idea and ***** out the rest :)
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Originally posted by MOIL
...For some reason or another ever since the release of AH2 the BB has been a breeding grounds for "come take your frustrations out here" type of mentality....
hehe, it's all AH2's fault.
Damn you to hell HTC!!! Do you not see the derision you have caused by upgrading your game?
... am i gonna get in troulbe for that?
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There's only a few offenders ... the flame get locked thread ,rinse repeat types in here ... they just need there paws slapped for violating the warnings ...
Hey Slap get over her so we can play the hand slap game :D
(Refresh ,refresh ,refresh )
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I most definately agree. Not only will there be threads worth reading (that dont go completely off topic because of flaming/insulting/bickering/arguing etc...), it will also make a good impression among new players because they wont see all of the pointless arguing and things of that sort.
I probably made no sense, but in other words, very good idea :aok
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And it realy isn't that much work, and it wouldn't be skuzzy doing it, it would be me.
It isn't that much work, because I read almost all threads anyway, locking them is about as much work as hitting the back button.
HiTech
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I have a different opinion as was attempted in exp. #2.
If you get a l`il heavy handed on the BBS with the moniotoring stuff then it will all go to ingame on channel 200.
Another thing to consider would be interpretation. Sometimes what one considers a flame or bashing, etc. is not the posters intention but is taken by such from someone else. Just a thought.
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Originally posted by hitech
To see what happens, am considering locking all in threads in the General Discussion ,for a week if any of the following apear.
1. Any flame of some ones post, not a counter discusion, but a flame. Also flame baits.
2. Any personal attacks.
3. A whine, not a suggest ,critisim or view, but the over the top stuff.
What do you guys think is it worth a try to see if it changes the general flavor?
HiTech
I BET YOU DON'T.....YOU DON'T HAVE THE NADS!!!!!
I DARE YOU..... I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU!!!!
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I would have to agree with the Captain.
The fact that HTC has to do something or is thinking about doing something reguarding the BBS and the community is most bothersome.
Kind of like a "we all seem to be either disappointed or happy about someones disappointment" type of behavior. Has it reached a boiling point? Has everyone vented enough?
Again, just seems like a real shame that a community has to continue to grow apart or become so hardened.
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Originally posted by nopoop
I spend alot of time in here. There is a certain mindset that has remained fairly constant through the last couple of years.
A general knowlege of where the "line" was drawn.
That changed a few weeks ago with a series of threads, one of which is still up after being moved and has 1755 replies in the O'Club.
Those series of threads and their allowence to continue changed the mindset here.
I think I know why they remained unlocked, but for a good deal of people they took that as a "relaxing" of the rules.
A face value kinda thing.
Could be wrong
I don't think that is the source of the problem. It was made very plain nearly from the start that the rules were loosened in that thread.
That being said, I'm not sure where the problem really does lie.
As far as being for or against the experiment, I don't really lean either way. The possible consequences however concern me greatly.
Again, I'm not saying HTC would be unfair, far from it, but experience with human nature tells me that they are almost certain to be accused of it. The same experience tells me it would be nasty and go down hill from there.
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Nice idea HiTech, but what do you do about the goof's who's only purpose in life would be to get the forum locked?
...ya know it would happen.
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I think it is worthy especially in the "Any personal attacks." realm. There is no need for it.
I also think restricting the "A whine, not a suggest ,critisim or view, but the over the top stuff." is a good idea, mostly because this stuff really sets me off lolh. :D
This one "Any flame of some ones post, not a counter discusion, but a flame. Also flame baits. " is interesting and a grey area I would like to see where you draw the line.
Thumbs up from me, although it should only be trial and the BB community should have a vote as a whole on weather it becomes permanent or not.
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That could be a posible Outcome jackal1. But rember it is only for a week. And do you think it would change the "NORM"?
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
And it realy isn't that much work, and it wouldn't be skuzzy doing it, it would be me.
It isn't that much work, because I read almost all threads anyway, locking them is about as much work as hitting the back button.
HiTech
It really wasn't about the workload. It was about something that COULD get big and ugly.
It boils down to weighing the choices of subtly and quietly nudging the whole thing in a better direction vs a more harsh attempt at a solution.
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I think it's a great idea for THIS forum. Give Skuzzy a bigger stick.
You've got to nip it, nip it in the bud.
(http://www.midatlantic.net/8x10/barneyfife-bullet.jpg)
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If you whack the dog with a rolled up newspaper when he piddles in the house, and then stick him outside for a while, he will eventually figure out that piddling in the house is a bad idea.
Whack away HT.
RTR
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Originally posted by RTR
If you whack the dog with a rolled up newspaper when he piddles in the house, and then stick him outside for a while, he will eventually figure out that piddling in the house is a bad idea.
Whack away HT.
RT
lmao ...
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Originally posted by hitech
That could be a posible Outcome jackal1. But rember it is only for a week. And do you think it would change the "NORM"?
HiTech
Hmmmmmm...... maybe it would. I guess it couldn`t get much worse on channel 200 anyway.
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Originally posted by mars01
I think it is worthy especially in the "Any personal attacks." realm. There is no need for it.
I also think restricting the "A whine, not a suggest ,critisim or view, but the over the top stuff." is a good idea, mostly because this stuff really sets me off lolh. :D
This one "Any flame of some ones post, not a counter discusion, but a flame. Also flame baits. " is interesting and a grey area I would like to see where you draw the line.
Thumbs up from me, although it should only be trial and the BB community should have a vote as a whole on weather it becomes permanent or not.
The problem is the grey area involved in all of it. Once you draw a line, some people feel driven to flirt with it. Then it becomes another sort of problem.
As far as a "vote" by the community, this place is probably better off as a benevolent dictatorship. I figure it will stay that way, with HT looking out for what he feels is in the best interest of all. Since he's asked for input, and will likelyact with regards to it, I'd say it will work pretty well.
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Originally posted by hitech
That could be a posible Outcome jackal1. But rember it is only for a week. And do you think it would change the "NORM"?
HiTech
If you did it for a week, then yes, I beleive that it would change the NORM ... but the next question is ... for how long ?
I think that you would need to do it for longer than a week ... go for it ... it just might work.
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Originally posted by hitech
And it realy isn't that much work, and it wouldn't be skuzzy doing it, it would be me.
It isn't that much work, because I read almost all threads anyway, locking them is about as much work as hitting the back button.
HiTech
Careful here, these guys will hold you to this =)
It may in fact change the "norm" for a while but I feel that the BBS will probably migrate back to this way after that time passes. That may stem from the fact that the player base in AH seems to be mostly older (I use this term loosely to mean that you guys are mostly out of high school/college), they have been playing these games, including AH1 for a long time, and are used to them, and when AH2 came out many reacted and are still reacting to the changes poorly. I think this is due to the fact that many have mastered the way things were done and now have to relearn quite a bit of the game. This, coupled with stress from everyday life leads some to lash out on the BBS even though many are good people at heart. Guess what I'm saying is that there will always be gripes, but you have to ask yourself, do you think that your experiment will cut down on the overall gripes, or add to them by giving them something else to gripe about?
--Mike/Howitzer
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For a serious reply to the actual question:
Give it a try HT and see what happens. It's not like it's a life-changing decision or anything. I'd like to see most of the flames & whines go away. I'm just not sure what it'd leave. ;)
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Here are my two cents .. not sure if it would change the norm. The people who go over the top tend to go over the top no matter what you do. The problem with the BBS is that only the minority of players participate here.
There are at least roughly 3800 people flying. There is definitely not 3800 posting here. However, there is a small minority who do post here that don’t see themselves, their idea, or rants in the light of the bigger context.
Yes, you might have a legitimate beef but you also have to step back and understand that on many issues, even if you get say 20 people agreeing with you here, that it is only a small drop in the bucket and that HTC has to take a look at the overall picture.
However, there is a small minority of this of posters (of this small minority of players) that think somehow if there snide enough, whine enough, beat a dead horse loud enough that it somehow out weighs all other considerations except for their own personal viewpoint. It is these people who consistently step over the line not just every now and then (somebody has a bad day) who think it might either be there right or is just how they related to the game or online experience.
Locking the general forum might possibly have an effect on the other people to show more self restraint, to post more professionally or respectfully, or to really post debates and discussions of ideas with a lower level of sarcasm, etc. (don’t think you can ever get rid of the negativity .. just tone it down).
But I think that as soon as you unlock the forum that the small minority who just don’t get it will be back very quickly to their old behavior.
So yes, it might have an affect on the majority but not everyone and not some of the people you might see with chronic behavior that you don’t like.
My two cents.
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Sounds pretty subjective to me.
For example, I think just about everything posted on these boards these days falls under one or more of your three categories. Others might have different definitions of whines, attacks and flames.
But since you'd be the one locking, and it's your board, go ahead. The sniveling, taunting and other crap posted on these boards has just about pushed me away from the game.
The primary downside is that you'll only further irritate those who think you've locked their threads without warrant. I really doubt a one-week campaign will stop the major offenders.
And if you do try it, don't limit it to General Discussion. The once-civil Combat Theater board is as bad or worse these days.
Splash1
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
It boils down to weighing the choices of subtly and quietly nudging the whole thing in a better direction vs a more harsh attempt at a solution.
Have tried the nudging for a long time. Problem Im having is every time I nudge it leads more contrivery.
Currently I have been letting the flamers deal with the whiners.
Problem with this is that the flamers also somtimes flame legit questions/comments. So I have 2 identical post one I view should be delt with, 1 not.
For instance in Twitchy's latest, Is this aceptible where he complaines about be called a moron. Well read that thread, and it Was twitchy who started the name calling, and posted somthing just to be spitefull.
So in my view he was just asking to be flamed.
BTW, Not picking on Twitchy, just using it because it is the current example that comes to my mind.
My guess is that the first day almost all threads will end up locked.
Because almost every thread will end up locked, the offender is not fealing singled out.
After a few days,I belive things could settle out and be a lot more fun.
HiTech
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Gettin involved in a flame war or pissing match is a tad too easy. I am as guilty , if not more, than most. Usualy it doesn`t start out that way or is not the original intention. You beleive you are making a valid point. someone disagrees and before you know it the "chipping" back and forth starts, then it`s all down hill from there.
And old joke that I think relates.....
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Some guys at work entered a break room for their 1st break of the day. In came one of their coworkers who was cut, bruised and battered with 2 black eyes.
One guys asks him what happened.
He says" Well I had to go to the doctor`s office yesterday and the first thing he did was to tell me to pee in a bottle. I told him to go fart in a jug and from there one thing led to another. :D
............................. ............................. ....
All in how we take some things I beleive.
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I'd rather have the account in violation banned for a week. This way HTC remains in control rather than the miscreants attempting to disrupt otherwise perfectly fine threads.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Dead Man:
I can think of 2 problems with that.
1. Admistatively It takes much more time to ban some one then simply lock the thread.
2. Banning would be viewed as being singled out and a punishment wather than an attempt to change things.
But if some one was obviously making post just to get stuff closed, we still have the banning option available.
HiTech
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I think we can all agree that mrblack wasn't the brightest bulb in the pack, but he had zero problem getting around the bannings.
...a side note since we have HT's attention. It would be nice and maybe help with some of the frustration if the HTC crew were to be seen in the arenas more. Not in blue text, but in jugs or really slow planes.
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Lets give it a spin HT. If nothing else no one could complain that you weren't trying to rectify a situation.
Who should I slag first to get locked? :D
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This just in!!
Arlo is STILL a poopy head.. He is posting nothing constructive to this thread.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I'd rather have the account in violation banned for a week. This way HTC remains in control rather than the miscreants attempting to disrupt otherwise perfectly fine threads.
-- Todd/Leviathn
I was thinking the same thing earlier. The banning seems to work well. As HT said many posts have some good suggestions/valid points that are worth reading. Just ban the offenders for a week and maybe delete their post and it would work well.
Then use the 3 strikes and you're out thing. Say something like get banned 3 times in 3 months and you're permanently banned.
Really, I think this should only pertain to flames/personal attacks myself but that's up to you. While the whines and such are annoying sometimes folks get frustrated ingame and come here to vent. I'd rather see a whine here than on 200 or worse range vox!
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I wonder what Einstien would do ...
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Originally posted by hitech
Have tried the nudging for a long time. Problem Im having is every time I nudge it leads more contrivery.
Currently I have been letting the flamers deal with the whiners.
Problem with this is that the flamers also somtimes flame legit questions/comments. So I have 2 identical post one I view should be delt with, 1 not.
For instance in Twitchy's latest, Is this aceptible where he complaines about be called a moron. Well read that thread, and it Was twitchy who started the name calling, and posted somthing just to be spitefull.
So in my view he was just asking to be flamed.
BTW, Not picking on Twitchy, just using it because it is the current example that comes to my mind.
My guess is that the first day almost all threads will end up locked.
Because almost every thread will end up locked, the offender is not fealing singled out.
After a few days,I belive things could settle out and be a lot more fun.
HiTech
Question: Did you mean contrivery or controversy?
Regarding the Twitchy threads: The stated policy on posting about cheating is plain and well known, although perhaps it should be prominently displayed somewhere. Anyone who has been here knows about it. This goes back to the benevolent dictatorship thing. Threads like that should be locked, and ONE warning issued. Post about it again and get locked out. Period. Make it plain for everyone. And I'm not picking on him either.
Letting flamers deal with whines does have the upside of having the community deal with it. However, some of the flamers just flame for the sake of the flame, not for the sake of the discussion. And they look for ANY reason to flame ANYONE. I see your problem.
I see where you're heading, and I understand why. I just don't think it will bring about a permanent change. And I do think it will bring about other serious problems.
I'm just looking at this from the perspective of hoping the cure isn't worse than the disease. As an example, I wouldn't take an allergy medicine with the possible side effects of nosebleeds, headaches, nausea, diarhea, and sexual side effects. I'll just sneeze and blow my nose.
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This just in!!
Arlo is STILL a poopy head.. // So far ok, added a since of fun
He is posting nothing constructive to this thread. //over top personal attack and distracting.