Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Stang on August 04, 2004, 09:02:12 PM
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Just logged into the MA to see Trinity up. Nice to have a different map, but the only fights on the map were huge hordes vulching or getting vulched, not a good fight anywhere on the entire map. So, somebody, please explain to me, ignorant as I must be, how are the big maps better for gameplay? I thought sightseeing was modeled better in Flight Simulator.
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oh come on, give it some TIME.....how long has it been up? 2 hours?
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one thing ill say about this map. is what happened to tank town, holy smokes!!! nothing like a 60 tank furball:D :D :D
another thing ill say about big maps, this is not the best example:)
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
another thing ill say about big maps, this is not the best example:)
maybe not in your eyes, but you are only 1 of many, in my eyes it is a most excellent map, which I am one of many.......see any difference?
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Originally posted by Stang
Just logged into the MA to see Trinity up. Nice to have a different map, but the only fights on the map were huge hordes vulching or getting vulched, not a good fight anywhere on the entire map. So, somebody, please explain to me, ignorant as I must be, how are the big maps better for gameplay? I thought sightseeing was modeled better in Flight Simulator.
This is what I've been saying all along!! :mad:
Big Maps = Gang-Bang and Vulch
Almost without exception, too many undefended places to go gang-horde and not enough players to protect them. So very little actual fighting anywhere, and when a good fight does start-up it evaporates just as quickly, as the horde moves to easier pickin's on some other corner of the largely indefensable map. You spend 90% of your air-time playing the 'shell game' with the enemy.
Here is the link to the huge debate we had about the Small/Big map problem...http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=110465
Zazen
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I'm sick of this crap. If you want to log on to roll just with the pack or just to take bases unopposed, how fun can that be, or better yet how tough can that be? Ever heard of pushing yourselves to see what you can do not what is easy to do? Dweebs!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
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Ever thought of taking off from another field to help out the one being vulched?
Just a thought, guys.
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CT
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Big maps= bigger playpen for the tots to horde in.
the CT entertained me slightly longer than the MA tonite. I give AH2 1 month to impress me enuff to continue paying. Tic -toc.
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poor HiTech, nothing pleases. there have been tons of posts complaining about "all we have is tha small maps" or "same old boring this and that... bring new maps"
HTC people got trinity (personally the best map in rotation IMHO) out, possibly hoping to please some of the customer base.
the whole time it has been out only 1 positive post about it, mine. i dont even really care about which map is up (except for my personal dislike of akdesert)... and never bothered to "complain" about the small maps. the only reason i posted was to alert the small map haters that the new "large" map was up finally, and to give a TY to HTC for their great work.
i guess i am just saddened by the dislike of whatever HiTechCreations does by some on this board.
HiTech was right, somewhere he mentioned you can't please everyone. i'm only scared he'll give up tyring at all.
<> HTC people please keep up the great work!
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Originally posted by JB73
poor HiTech, nothing pleases. there have been tons of posts complaining about "all we have is tha small maps" or "same old boring this and that... bring new maps"
HTC people got trinity (personally the best map in rotation IMHO) out, possibly hoping to please some of the customer base.
the whole time it has been out only 1 positive post about it, mine. i dont even really care about which map is up (except for my personal dislike of akdesert)... and never bothered to "complain" about the small maps. the only reason i posted was to alert the small map haters that the new "large" map was up finally, and to give a TY to HTC for their great work.
i guess i am just saddened by the dislike of whatever HiTechCreations does by some on this board.
HiTech was right, somewhere he mentioned you can't please everyone. i'm only scared he'll give up tyring at all.
<> HTC people please keep up the great work!
I think HTC is great, I think AH is great, I think AH2 is even greater and I conscientiously express this overall satisfaction publicly. However, I think HTC jumped the gun on the 512X512 maps, they are just TOO big for our current player base. They are not conducive to air to air combat in the classic sense or any other sense.
I feel badly for the new person who got a trial account after watching HTC's ad on Discovery Wings tonight, logged in to try it out only to find they had been mislead. There is in fact no real air to air combat. Just a bunch of Gv's, milkrunning and gang-bang vulching. That person is certainly not going to decide to pay for this product based on the experience they have on these enormously HUGE maps. It's sad that this will be their first impression, AH2 has so much more to offer, but Huge Maps obscure and cloud what a rare gem AH can be.
*Big Maps= Non-fighting.*
Why the jump from 256X256 to 512X512? A blind man can see that during all but 2 or 3 hours a day the number of bases outnumber the number of players. That just means a giant vacuum of boredom and malaise. I am one of the most patient players in the game, but HUGE maps drive me totally crazy with boredom. The size of these maps, the numbers of fields and their spacing is simply in HUGE disproportion to the number of players.
I really hate that I am forced to be a critic of AH here, but 512X512 maps are a pretty major mistake and the wrong way to go if you want to popularize, market and sell this product as a WW2 Air Combat Flight Simulator. If your goal is to try and become more like WW2OL and perhaps take a portion of their market share, then these HUGE maps may definately be the way to go. But, you will need to change your Web Site Front page and your TV ad to avoid claims of false advertising. Oh, and you will also need to change the name from "Aces High" to "Ground Pounders". But before you do that, I'll let you in on a little secret, if we wanted a game LIKE WW2OL, we'd be playing WW2OL, what we want is a WW2 Air Combat Simulator, the one thing AH is good for and WW2OL is not.
Zazen
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Personally I dont give a rats rear what size map I find a fun battle on, but the real problem is that they just don't exist for the most part.
From what I have seen in my limited time back has been exteremely consistant, waaaay to many rooks, slightly less knits, and considerably less bish. All three countries having the majority of their player base concentrated on 1 or 2 UNDEFENDED BASES.
Now I'm not sure just exactly what type of mental masturbation the AH majority is looking for. But apparently they are finding satisfaction in compiling 20-30 wingmen and taking undefended bases, one after the other(WEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, man we ROCK!!!).
I left Bish when they had too many numbers, I went to Rook. Now I leave Rooks because they have too many numbers, back to Bish who most often have least. I hope there are several other Rooks out there, tired of racing 5 countrymen to the kill, or de-winging a con at 15K and watching 3 country go after the carcas as it tumbles to the turf.
HTC cant fix everything all the time, I give them credit for trying. This horde crap is boring at best. Some solutions rest in the players hands. Help Make AH fun again. Or just continue hording, and find me playing for free in the H2H arenas where I can find or create a even fight for free. Call it a rant but its all true.
Anton:aok
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My post was in no way a complaint to HTC about how they manage the game. The problem is with the players and can only be fixed by the players. I favor the small maps because at least on those the horde tards can't take fields unopposed for there is only so much room for their dweebery. And one more thing, there is actually FIGHTING going on! What a novel concept, aircraft meet in the air and actually fight it out to the death or until one is forced to withdraw due to damage or other circumstances. On the big maps the only fighting tends to be who can judge the vulching conga line best. Oh, and guys who claim they hate the small maps because it limits gameplay are totally full of it. Just because you might have to face some resistance on your 20k tiffie raid that is just going to auger anyway, don't say it sucks because you didn't die on your own terms. BTW, the best way to get kills is to come up at a field a bish raid is attacking, just sit on the runway for 2 mins, collect 5+ proxies, and exit :D
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"Big maps = non-fighting"
Have you seen the furballs on Trinity? About 10 mins ago, there were two huge battles between the rooks/knights and the rooks/bish.
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Originally posted by Fruda
"Big maps = non-fighting"
Have you seen the furballs on Trinity? About 10 mins ago, there were two huge battles between the rooks/knights and the rooks/bish.
I was on all night until about 20 minutes ago and not one fight. I'll take your word for it that a fight happened, even still one 15 minute fight over 5 hours is not my idea of entertainment.
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Originally posted by Stang
My post was in no way a complaint to HTC about how they manage the game. The problem is with the players and can only be fixed by the players. I favor the small maps because at least on those the horde tards can't take fields unopposed for there is only so much room for their dweebery. And one more thing, there is actually FIGHTING going on! What a novel concept, aircraft meet in the air and actually fight it out to the death or until one is forced to withdraw due to damage or other circumstances. On the big maps the only fighting tends to be who can judge the vulching conga line best. Oh, and guys who claim they hate the small maps because it limits gameplay are totally full of it. Just because you might have to face some resistance on your 20k tiffie raid that is just going to auger anyway, don't say it sucks because you didn't die on your own terms. BTW, the best way to get kills is to come up at a field a bish raid is attacking, just sit on the runway for 2 mins, collect 5+ proxies, and exit :D
Surely, someone at HTC actually plays the game and realizes these glaringly obvious situations...I can't believe they are totally oblivious to them. This is not like EA where they have a huge stable of games. HTC has only one, AH II.
Zazen
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Fruda, there were no huge battles. There were only huge hordes of rooks or bish picking on the few pieces of meat they found. Fights? ROFL!
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Originally posted by Stang
Fruda, there were no huge battles. There were only huge hordes of rooks or bish picking on the few pieces of meat they found. Fights? ROFL!
I think Fruda's new. 50 on 5 does not constitute a fight by any stretch of the imagination. Even those brave 5 quickly evaporate to become part of their countries' 50 on 5 on the other end of the map 20 sectors distant.
Zazen
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Dunno I just left a pretty decent fight not 5 min ago.
Wasnt a horde, Wasnt a blob V blob
Maybe a 10V 10 attacking and counter attacking.
The largest problem was our dar was down more then anything (think something more creative should be done with dar rather then HQ down ALL dar down But thats just my opinion)
I never have a problem finding just about any kind of fight I want on the big maps.
Thats why I like the bigger maps.
though I would agree to maybe maling more feilds and thus moving the feilds closer together and perhaps having the fuel modified a bit for the larger maps
Honestly though with the maps we had I would have been happy to have ANY NEW map in the MA reguardless of size even if it was just another small one. So long as it was different from the current small map rotation.
Im happy to see a big map.
Thanks HTC
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I think the folk at AH have made a great map here. Don't complain about the map when what's really spoiling it is the Horde mentality.
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i cant stand furball. i hate them i prefer the 1 on 1 stuff you find on pizza and infinity.
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imho,
this being my first "big map" since I started. I had a blast tonight. Decided to take a break from flying and had a good 3 hour tank war. Very cool!
The 1 flying sortie I did to resupply a field was pretty good to, just trying to sort my way through the mountians and valleys was a good time.
Ive played too many online games to count (this is my first war sim) and I have never seen a time when the company producing the game was able to overcome the complaints. There is always somebody pissed cause of this or that. For a month ive been reading about ppl asking for big maps, now there is one and there is almost instantly a thread about how bad this one sucks or why big maps are bad. Doesnt make much sense to me. My opinion is however bias. The last three games I played had player numbers in the 10 of thousands. To me, the player base here has it made. The company that produces that game responds to our posts, trys to fix problems ppl see with patches and from what ive seen has amazing customer service. You wont hear me complain thats for sure.
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Originally posted by Fruda
[B...Have you seen the furballs on Trinity? About 10 mins ago, there were two huge battles between the rooks/knights and the rooks/bish. [/B]
I was logged on at that time. Those were not battles. There were two HUGE rook horde congo lines. One mashing bish and one mashing knits, both pretty much unopposed.
I logged and went to the CT.
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Originally posted by anton
I left Bish when they had too many numbers, I went to Rook. Now I leave Rooks because they have too many numbers, back to Bish who most often have least.
why you never try flyee Knightee? hmm you not like knights? come on over give us a try you might learn some of Silat's tricks........:D
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Well, I had to say something, lol. Yeah, they weren't furballs, and I was part of the huge vulch squad at 45.
Just sticking up for a great map.
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The small maps supported a player base of about 200 quite well. When the base expanded, the cry went up for larger maps. In order to do that, the map had to incease to 4x the size.
When that was done, they also increased the amount of bases by 4x. If they had only doubled the number of bases and left the outer perimeters blank, it coud have been used for additional fields to be added as the player base expanded. We went from about 60 fields on small maps to over 250 on large ones. The addition of so many vehicle bases, some in strings 6 or 7 bases long almost forces the planes to go in hordes to the airfield and stretches the airfields further away from each other.
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I've never liked triinity myself. I do like like FesterMA though.:)
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I upped a panzer from A141 to V135 for a major gv battle there, that was pretty fun
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Trinity is a decent map but like many others has only one flaw. The bases are too far apart.
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need an auto sorter..not just this map but all maps
once a country has a greater than 1.25 to 1 odds, the players entering the arena are auto assigned to the country with the lowest number of ppl...
in no time the numbers would be balanced
country "loyalty" is a joke .. this is a game meant to be fun for "all"
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they weren't furballs, and I was part of the huge vulch squad at 45.
Ah!! We're getting somewhere!!
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Originally posted by Eagler
need an auto sorter..not just this map but all maps
once a country has a greater than 1.25 to 1 odds, the players entering the arena are auto assigned to the country with the lowest number of ppl...
in no time the numbers would be balanced
country "loyalty" is a joke .. this is a game meant to be fun for "all"
And if you auto-collate me to a country where my squaddies are not, I won't be having any FUN at all, as would many others who would be forced to fly not with their squaddies but against them.
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I would think a squad variable could be in place to assure you don't have to kill ur buds
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Auto sorter is not going to happen, I agree with Slapshot totally on this. If HTC put in any mechanism to force people to have to fly other countries than then one they want to basically they have killed their game.
I fly with my squad because of sense of community and flying with friends. Even if somehow programming was put in place so that I did not shoot them down .. to be forceably moved to another country instead of flying with them because of some mathematical formula would see me cancel my account in a second.
Everyone has to realize something .. there is always going to be a country with more players and a country with the least amount of players. It does shift over time (a long time took 2 years of Rooks trying to reverse being the country with the least to become now the one with the most) but hate to say you are never going to reach a perfect balance.
1 year from now the Bishops might consistently field the most.
Many have posted here and I agree with them that after a certain point the only thing that can be done is left up to players and squads.
Several squads are starting to shift out of Rooks to other countries. 13th TAS has done so, I know of a couple others talking about doing so.
But other countries squads have to work at turning out more of their pilots, roping in the independents and building a mindset that makes things fun no matter the numbers.
By this I mean enjoying the fact of stopping an attack cold, sticking the other guy in the craw and cackling when despite their superior numbers they can't reset you or get stuck to a slow crawl of only taking a base or two in an hour with their overwhelming numbers.
Sort of like the Alamo .. find you have 10,000 Mexican soldiers but if you think we few 100 Texans are going to roll over or this is going to be a cake walk .. your in for a suprise.
But a programming things to balance sides will kill this game.
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Btw .. country loyalty is a joke to you. It is not a joke to others and just because you don't understand or share their view point that doesn't make their view point invalid.
Many fly a country because they have a large amount of friends across squad lines, among other reasons.
You may not think there logic or reasons are valid but that doesn't mean you are right or that a system should be put in place that discounts what they wish to do or what their view point is in favor of another's opinion.
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The company that produces that game responds to our posts, trys to fix problems ppl see with patches and from what ive seen has amazing customer service. You wont hear me complain thats for sure.
octospider0
Welcom Octo! Hope you enjoy your stay. It sounds like you're off to a good start.
Charon
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Originally posted by Stang
Just logged into the MA to see Trinity up. Nice to have a different map, but the only fights on the map were huge hordes vulching or getting vulched, not a good fight anywhere on the entire map. So, somebody, please explain to me, ignorant as I must be, how are the big maps better for gameplay? I thought sightseeing was modeled better in Flight Simulator.
Stang ... have you tried the "piss in their cereal" tactic yet ? Work great on big maps.
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Originally posted by Eagler
need an auto sorter..not just this map but all maps
once a country has a greater than 1.25 to 1 odds, the players entering the arena are auto assigned to the country with the lowest number of ppl...
in no time the numbers would be balanced
country "loyalty" is a joke .. this is a game meant to be fun for "all"
personally, i would have to quit the game if i was forced to fly knights or bishop.
country loyality may be a joke to you, but the friendships i have made, and the comradery of staying in the same country is one of the biggest reasons i fly.
ths is not a "shoot em up" arcade game, to float around wherever, it is about WWII, and the flying in a squad, the whole package.
id hazard a guess that most here would quit if they weren't allowed to fly with their squad (some that have been around over 10 years) just because they didnt log on at the same time.
as far as a "squad variable" .. our squad is over 20. that's enough to imbalance a side on a tuesday ngiht.
what about wingman squads? i'd never shoot down a BT CAF or many other rook squads?
just a bad idea IMHO, sorry.
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If there were a fourth country made of all those who oppose this gameplay, it'd club the lemmings, whatever the odds.
people fly and fight like **** because they can, it's their 15$.
see Heater's sig.
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You want fights, you want 1v1s or 3v3s? The CT is where you can find em.
You want hordes, you want base capture, whittle generalz, pork-and-auger? Then stay in the MA.
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Stang ... have you tried the "piss in their cereal" tactic yet ? Work great on big maps.
It's time to get drastic Slappy :aok
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1) Big Maps = Hordes: Ok, like that wasnt's happening on the small maps? Hmm recent memory, A30/A35/A25 on the lake map, nothing but hordes. A42/A4/A44/A5/A33/A1 on Mindy, nothing but hordes. A7/A18/A9/A10 NDISLE, oh yes, nothing but hordes.
2) Can't find a good fight: You mean you can't go out and pick from above a furball. My squad had a blast fighting at A141/A136, then capturing V135/V187 and then eventually taking A190, all with 8 or less JBz on and a few to help at A190. WE MADE THE FIGHT!
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LOL. You guys are unreal. JB73 gets it. The maps are NOT the problem.
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I don't get to play as much as I'd like, but when I do I prefer taking off on my own in a fighter and looking for 1v1 or few vs. few fights, and I am often drawn into furballs. I'm usually on during U.S. primetime when there are about 425 players on. A small map during this period is like a football game in a phone booth. Yes, the action is more fast-paced and the enemy keep coming at you with Galaxian-like intensity, but that's not what I care for.
On the big maps I find the kind of fights I like, such as intercepting milkrunners who try to sneak in somewhere unnoticed, or tracking down one or two bogies who are looking for the same kind of air-to-air fight as I - the kind where a bunch of others from either side aren't around to butt in. I'm also drawn to the large red horde attacking an undefended base (like a moth to a flame), but it's just to pick off what I can - I don't play hero unless I get some help there. I'm not into the base capture thing because I'm never on long enough to see it through. In the 2.5 years I've been playing AH, I can count the number of resets I've seen on one hand.
I'll visit the CT now & then and join the side with fewer players, and I've had some good fights, but gangbanging happens there too.
So I prefer the big maps. However, I understand how they can be a drag to players who aren't on during U.S. primetime and log in to find a vast and sparsely populated arena.
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I'm not reading this whole thread - I do agree with Stang Big Maps = Boring. Why because the fields are too potato peeling far apart. All of them.
Festers maps have a excellent combination of close fields and distant fields and the game play on Fester and Oz rocks for everyone.
I wish HTC would wake up on this issue and move some of the bases closer on the other maps.
Look how long it tool them to react to the obviouse fuel porking problem. Once they did gameplay became a whole lot better and now there is alot more fighting. Unfortunately we had to put up with the stupid pork problem way to long.
Please HTC move half the bases into a close proximety. This increases the fighting and allows the Sector or more guys to have there fun to by leaving the other half of the bases as is.
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WE MADE THE FIGHT! = "Pissin' in their cereal" ... WTG JBz !!!
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Originally posted by Tabasco
So I prefer the big maps. However, I understand how they can be a drag to players who aren't on during U.S. primetime and log in to find a vast and sparsely populated arena.
I agree with your whole post. Indeed, the pizza map can be fun when there are as few as 61 online, so I don't think you need have qualified your post with that last sentence.
I think the small maps are for those who like the fast-paced skirmishes. Quite what those prove I don't know. Why folks can't just go to the DA if that's all they want is an even deeper mystery.
Big maps cater to a thinking man's game. Just by looking at the map, you KNOW where the enemy is going to be. One hardly needs radar/bardar. If you have an isolated base with enemy bases on three sides of it, you know that the enemy is going to be trying for it. And while Mars01-style LA7 backup field defence might accurately be described as lame, I see nothing wrong with taking off from any field, and heading to an area which the enemy might want to traverse to get to your field. Many of those enemies will be heavy, and your attack will come as a surprise.
The people who complain about big maps are the ladies who don't know how to read them, and are capable only of being drawn to a big green blob. Still, you know what they say - Men can't listen, and women can't read maps. ;)
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Map size doesn’t matter when the Hoard Minded MA is in action. Which is about 18 outa 24 hours in the day.
HT will soon put an end to this nonsense too. Just be patient and you will see these Country jumping clowns strapped in and the MA will be back normal.
Oh take my word for it. IT IS COMING!
Which methode is employed remains to be seen but there will be some effort in this area.
60 to 70+ player advantages will be ended.
It must. If there is a "Game Play" issue that needs addressed...it is this one. And HT will address it. So Buck Up Boyz......and get ready to accept "Change" After all...we shouldn’t mind change should we? :D
Good Day
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big maps=teh r0xx0r.
get the picture mars? maybe you should try a one on one. You will have fun.
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I wish you were on last night slap. There were a few decent fights but then someone killed the carriers. Now that all the carriers were back at port we had to look at least a sector or more for the fights. ZZZZZZZZZZ
SLAP it was so bad that we actually saddled up heavy 51s flew the sector and a half to attack a base.
Finaly the fights were so spread out and so lacking that most lost interest and logged.
Yeah I agree that at times you can create a fight, but the long boring flights in between get worse and worse then it's time to log.
Beetle as for you, climb back up on your perch and go back to sleep.:aok Anyone that has run into me knows better and anyone that wants to find out knows where to find me. :rolleyes:
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Any time you want to go to the DA Skull just ask:aok
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I would agree with a few things said here.
There is room for improved gameplay, Its not entirely the maps that are responsible for the tatics employed. Each map has its strengths and weaknesses.
I am thinking on how to address gameplay, with solutions in mind. Maybe some of you can help that process along.
First thought that comes to mind is objectives set in the game. It seems that indiviual objectives include things like, Air to Air Kills, Other kills, Bombing targets, Survival and becoming proficent in all areas of game play to recieve a rank. Perhaps if we think about how some of those objectives could be modified to encourage good game play we might find some answers.
Present rewards seem to be Getting your name in lights for kills. Succesful landings for the above and for greater perks. Pilot Ranking for doing well in all catigorys of the game.
Next Im thinking about country wide objectives. That would be things like base captures, strat targets, and map resets. Again perhaps if the objectives and/or rewards were modified it might encourage better game play.
I need to spend more thought on this, but Id like to hear others Ideas on it as well.
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Originally posted by mars01
Any time you want to go to the DA Skull just ask:aok
Then please tell me why you don't like big maps. that is almost the exact same thing as 1on1 imo. Ohh you don't like the 'Long' Flights.:rolleyes: Maybe get a book out and read while fling, or troll on channel 1 and see how many fish you catch.:)
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Grimm,
I know you don't like pizza, and I agree with you - the maps are only part of the equation. I personally feel that the attitudes of some of the players make for lousy gameplay, none more so than the "it's MY $14.95" mantra.
But HTC can't change the attitudes of the players. Things are bound to be worse with a flat rate pricing plan - because any old tard can afford 50 cents a day to play.
The big maps do give the game a different twist. Hording is not impossibile, but more difficult - primarily because the dorks can't agree which base to attack and from where. On the small maps, that decision is made for them. Follow the green blob - durrrh... :rolleyes:
But if they horde, it means that another area of the map might be left undefended, and open to attack - so up go their cries of "waaaah, girly milkmaids attacking undefended bases!!!" - only undefended because the dorks can't read the map and/or because their horde is somewhere else.
Mars01 - you're still my favourite maroon. :D
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Grimm I think the one main problem and disconnect is that there are two objectives.
1) To find a fight and hope it keeps on going.
2) To kill as much strat as you can to reduce the fight and capture a field.
Unfortunately these two objectives are complete opposites and when the two clash there is no resolution.
Personally I like it when a base capture is hard and two sides have to battle it out for hours. Others don't they want to kill strat stop the fight ASAP and quickly take the base.
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Skull I love a good 1 v 1. Had a few last night. I like a good 1 v 2 or 3. Then the skills really gotta shine and if they don't they get better by getting my arse handed to me.
As for the your suggestions, thanks for caring, but if I want to read a book I'll read a book, if I want to play chatty Cathy in forum I'll do that, but when I want to dog fight I'd like to spend more time dog fighting than aimlessly flying around. If I got my kicks that way I would just fire up FS04.
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Beetle for the last time I don't swing that way, your not getting a date.:aok :D
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LOL, this is all just too funny and too common. It just goes to show the old addage of "you can please some people some of the time, but you can never please all the people anytime" is true true true.
No matter what map or what candidate or what brand of clothing, this will never change. There will always be someone complaining about something.
Personaly I like the big maps the best because it leaves options open for any type of gameplay you want. If you want to gv you can. If you want to vulch, you can. If you want to do an under dar mission, you can. If you want to furball, you can. If you want a great gv battle, you can. And so on and on.
With the small maps, you are very often limited to just defending against the rook horde :D , or attacking. And very often lately on small maps because of the numbers scew, you are limited only to defending. Big maps give a big front in wich to choose your game play of liking even if the rooks have 2-1 numbers.
Too many people here (and everywhere else in the world) think that everyone else who doesnt see thing the way that they see it, must be wrong or just stupid. To me it,s the closed minded people who never see anything but what they want and feel who are, well, stupid :p Just my 2 or well 50 cents worth.
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well then mars use it as a grab a beer time.:aok
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Personaly I like the big maps the best because it leaves options open for any type of gameplay you want. If you want to gv you can. If you want to vulch, you can. If you want to do an under dar mission, you can. If you want to furball, you can. If you want a great gv battle, you can. And so on and on.
I do disagree, I must be wrong or stupid:D . If they moved half the bases clsoer together then and only then would the large maps be good for furballing. Fester proved this and the other maps should be updated as such. Then you would be correct all options would be open. Furballing on the big maps (Festers not included) are non existent unless a CV is sitting off the coast of an enemy base and even then some maroon kills the CV within 5 mins and the furball is dead.
Big maps ( Festers not included ) do not foster furballing.
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Early this morning, though, there was a small fight at... Forgot which field, but it was in the northern part of the map. Plenty of N1K's, La-7's and Spits.
Just a tip: If people don't want to get vulched, they need to help the airfields that are being assaulted. How do they do that, you ask? Take off from another airfield.
It seems like people think that doing so would do more harm than good, but it can save the assaulted field.
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well then mars use it as a grab a beer time.
Yeah or HTC moves half the fields closer, so I can fight and you can still up from the far off bases and read your book, play chatty Cathy, get a beer, catch up with old friends, find a cure for cancer, win a Nobel Peace Prize, and then maybe get into a fight ten mins later.:D :aok
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Just a tip: If people don't want to get vulched, they need to help the airfields that are being assaulted. How do they do that, you ask? Take off from another airfield.
It seems like people think that doing so would do more harm than good, but it can save the assaulted field.
Not when you have to fly a sector or more to get there. Any base capture worth it's weight will have the base before you get half way there.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Things are bound to be worse with a flat rate pricing plan - because any old tard can afford 50 cents a day to play.
Total stupidity... :rolleyes:
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The whole post is total stupidity Dipstick lolh:lol
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Originally posted by mars01
The whole post is total stupidity Dipstick lolh:lol
Well that goes without saying I just hate it when I read "raise the price, it'll fix everything". It's so silly. As far as the thread goes like I said, big map or small with close bases the fights will be there.
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Originally posted by mars01
I do disagree, I must be wrong or stupid:D .
Big maps ( Festers not included ) do not foster furballing.
LOL, no you are not wrong or stupid. That wasnt what I wanted to portray in my post. Anyone has a right to "their" opinion. It is the people who think that "their" opinion can be the only right one are the one who are wrong and self centered :D
There are always 3 side to anything, your side, my side and the truth, somewhere in between. Lets just respect each other opinions if even if we dont agree with them.
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LOL Raptor, I know I was just teasing.
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Originally posted by beet1e
But if they horde, it means that another area of the map might be left undefended, and open to attack - so up go their cries of "waaaah, girly milkmaids attacking undefended bases!!!" - only undefended because the dorks can't read the map and/or because their horde is somewhere else.
Right. So you end up with unopposed hordes everywhere with large-spaced maps.
On small-spaced maps, you can up from another close field not on a direct furball axis, and find cons on the edges for 1v1 and other small fights. Or you can join the furball. Or you can join a horde, but there is a greater chance it will be opposed.
And on Fester's map, you can do both. In the center people who want action can play. And on the edges, people who want large-spaced-style "action" (read "unopposed hordes") can find what they want.
Something for everyone!
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Originally posted by phookat
Right. So you end up with unopposed hordes everywhere with large-spaced maps.
Hardly. Hording is what happens when there is only one or two places where your side has a base adjacent to an enemy base - that's where the horde will be. On big maps, there will be many more instances where green meets red. That's what the furballers whine about. They like the small maps because the furball is pretty much enforced between two bases.
But it doesn't matter. These threads have shown that both big and small maps are needed. Keep both, but make the rotation policy fair. :aok
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Originally posted by mars01
I wish HTC would wake up on this issue and move some of the bases closer on the other maps.
Look how long it tool them to react to the obviouse fuel porking problem. Once they did gameplay became a whole lot better and now there is alot more fighting. Unfortunately we had to put up with the stupid pork problem way to long.
Please HTC move half the bases into a close proximety. This increases the fighting and allows the Sector or more guys to have there fun to by leaving the other half of the bases as is.
Hey Mars :)
First, they have to determine that something is broken in gameplay. That's not simple to do. Then they have to find a solution and that's really tough since any solution is going to make equal numbers angry and happy. Finally, they have to implement the solution. Implementing the current 'solution' involved changing base design. Each town and airfield had to be changed. It's not something easily done.
Moving the bases closer together will hamper gameplay for the segment of the population that is trying to control losing bases.
For me, the fun of AH is base capture (or to be more accurate and for the last two years as a bishop, base defense -- ie, control of nearby troops.) Therefore, the current base density of Trinity is about right.
I do agree Trinity is a problem for guys whose primary interest is "the furball."
curly
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Originally posted by anton
I left Bish when they had too many numbers, I went to Rook. Now I leave Rooks because they have too many numbers, back to Bish who most often have least. I hope there are several other Rooks out there, tired of racing 5 countrymen to the kill, or de-winging a con at 15K and watching 3 country go after the carcas as it tumbles to the turf.
Anton:aok
Editing history, eh? Bishop numbers have been in the toilet for approximately two years.
curly
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IMO, the problem with the big maps is that the fronts are just to damn big.
People are a lot like electricity and water in that they will usually take the path of least resistance. When you have two 5-6 sector long fronts the horde is going to pour through the least defended area.
I would like to see more battles. Not furballs, mind you, but big-assed air, land and sea fights for real estate. I think smaller fronts would accomplish this.
...'course this is counter to the "path of least resistence" folks desires. For them the taking of land is more important than the fight for it.
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Originally posted by Stang
I'm sick of this crap. If you want to log on to roll just with the pack or just to take bases unopposed, how fun can that be, or better yet how tough can that be? Ever heard of pushing yourselves to see what you can do not what is easy to do? Dweebs!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Im sorry dood thats just out of my comfort zone....
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There are always 3 side to anything, your side, my side and the truth, somewhere in between. Lets just respect each other opinions if even if we dont agree with them. [/B]
when I want your opinion ill give it to you.
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Hey Curly,
I can see your point.
Festers maps seem to have a little more balance between the two camps, what is you opinion of Oz and Fester maps?
Furious I also agree, the most fun I have had has been the combination base capture/furball scenario. I think this is the holy grail of AH.
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I like the big maps. You can find any kind of fight your looking for.Tanks, 1 on 1. All you have to do is look. My 1st up today was a 4 on 3, and had a blast. Thank you HTC for giving us a big map.BTW this game is what you make of it yourself. If you chose to up a base thats being overran and get picked its your own fault.As far has horads go you have more of that on the small maps. Well thats my 2 cents.
Panman
CO Regulators:cool:
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Originally posted by AKcurly
For me, the fun of AH is base capture (or to be more accurate and for the last two years as a bishop, base defense -- ie, control of nearby troops.) Therefore, the current base density of Trinity is about right.
Tells me alot.
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Originally posted by mars01
Hey Curly,
I can see your point.
Festers maps seem to have a little more balance between the two camps, what is you opinion of Oz and Fester maps?
Furious I also agree, the most fun I have had has been the combination base capture/furball scenario. I think this is the holy grail of AH.
Fester MA pretty much works for me. With the old AH strat model, Oz was ok, but not great. I'm hoping (for reasons I don't understand or forsee) that Oz will be terrific in AH2, but I'm afraid that outnumbered sides will be unable to defend their bases ... just too darn many ways to get troops to a base. Very difficult to keep all troops down.
curly
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Originally posted by DipStick
Tells me alot.
Yeah? :) Cool. I'm always delighted to clearly communicate.
curly
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Ive only played on Trinity about 2 hours so I dont have a good enough feel for it yet. Every map has its "base" thats being overwhelmed, and a couple that are smaller fights. It just seems to take longer picking where you want to go with all the bases to shop through.
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Originally posted by mars01
Festers maps seem to have a little more balance between the two camps, what is you opinion of Oz and Fester maps?
i like Festerma.
I HATE HATHE HAHTE HATE OZ. even though i understands its dedication i hate that map. to many objects in to small an area plus i dont like flying over water areas for to long. that map had to big a hit on fps to even think about flying on it.
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just too darn many ways to get troops to a base. Very difficult to keep all troops down.
Ahh rgr I never thought about that aspect of close bases. That does make the defense more difficult.
I would be against all the bases being moved closer but I would like to see a portion moved so there is more balance of options for everyone. There are definately trade offs that have to be made.
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I HATE HATHE HAHTE HATE OZ. even though i understands its dedication i hate that map. to many objects in to small an area
Do you mean the center island?
plus i dont like flying over water areas for to long. that map had to big a hit on fps to even think about flying on it.
The carrier battles are my favorite part. Yeah there is a decent amount of water, but there are a ton of carriers so at least it's not a waste. I do feel that way about the Reverse Trinity all that water and nary enough carriers. I like the change from flying over the land dominated maps. Luckly my frame rates never ret really bad.
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Originally posted by mars01
I wish you were on last night slap. There were a few decent fights but then someone killed the carriers. Now that all the carriers were back at port we had to look at least a sector or more for the fights. ZZZZZZZZZZ
SLAP it was so bad that we actually saddled up heavy 51s flew the sector and a half to attack a base.
Finaly the fights were so spread out and so lacking that most lost interest and logged.
Yeah I agree that at times you can create a fight, but the long boring flights in between get worse and worse then it's time to log.
Beetle as for you, climb back up on your perch and go back to sleep.:aok Anyone that has run into me knows better and anyone that wants to find out knows where to find me. :rolleyes:
Wow, I'm shocked, I agree with mars on something! I'm going to mark the time and date on my calendar! ;)
Zazen
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Originally posted by mars01
I do disagree, I must be wrong or stupid:D . If they moved half the bases clsoer together then and only then would the large maps be good for furballing. Fester proved this and the other maps should be updated as such. Then you would be correct all options would be open. Furballing on the big maps (Festers not included) are non existent unless a CV is sitting off the coast of an enemy base and even then some maroon kills the CV within 5 mins and the furball is dead.
Big maps ( Festers not included ) do not foster furballing.
Exactly!
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Exactly!
Which says to me all you want is a small place with fuballs out the whaaaazoo to cherry pick. Guess thats ok for your Elite types. And your not the only one. I love furballs for other reasons I'm quite sure than you do.
Big Maps or Small Maps? The true question of Gameplay. My way is better than yours. I Know whats good for this community and you dont. Your a Newb what do you know. My way or I'm gonna go stomp on the BBS and say how bad things are.
JB's seem to understand , as a few others , that its not BIG or SMALL. It is what you make of it. Sometimes youll have your lil furballs and be happy as a pig in poop. Able to CHerry Pick and be the studdly man you need to be. Sometimes you have to fly a bit to find what you want.
Don't like the map then log off. Spend some time with the wife or Grilfriend or Partner or Domestic Partner significant other. Watch a Movie. ESPN. History Channel. Fox News (if your a conservative type) CNN or ABC or NBC or CBS or MSNBC (if your of the libby side). Sit out on the Back Patio and drink a nice glass of Ice Cold Tea and enjoy the summer breeze blowing. Take in a Movie.
I fly ALOT in the Mornings US time. Not a whole lot going on when big maps are up. Fights ARE spread out. Know what? I'm in a squad that enjoys the time flying. Talking about life. History of planes. Discussing tactics. Flying to a Fight and just generally shooting the breeze as we go. Cracking Jokes. All sorts of stuff. There is more to this than simply rinse and repeat furballing. (WHich I totally enjoy) I care not one bit about "Winning" the War. I simply enjoy the fights I find most times. Flying with the squaddies. And Enjoying the chance to play a game that is world wide.
I enjoy flying escorts for buffs. May Not kill a thing there and back. Know what though? He or She appreciated the fact that they had a player willing to take a lil time to just help a lil bit.
I logged on last nite about 11:45 pm US Cet time and 1 squaddie and I had a blast fighting between 2 bases. ABout 10 or so vs 10 or so. So saying you can't find something to fight, I find sort of hard to believe.
Somewhere I read in this long list of stuff that I have now made longer...about realism....Well in WW2 there were alot of days spent flying with NO ENCOUNTERS of ENEMIES. Thats realism.
Just my 2 cents........HTC...from a nobody here...Great Work and Great Product. Don't even try to make em see. It's not worth the 900 bottles of Ibuprophren youll need to cure the headache. Kepp up the GREAT work. I appreciate it.:aok
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Originally posted by beet1e
Hardly. Hording is what happens when there is only one or two places where your side has a base adjacent to an enemy base - that's where the horde will be.
1) Horde: large unopposed monocolor blob.
2) Furball: large multi-color blob.
3) Small fight: small multi-color group.
Large-spaced maps: 1.
Small-spaced maps: 2, 3, and a chance of 1.
Fester: 1, 2, and 3. Gives the small-spaced people what they want, and the large-spaced people what they want.
You will never get rid of the horde mentality, regardless of map. The trick is to deal with it in such a way as to break up the horde and turn it into something else. Small-spaced maps offer two tools to accomplish this: earlier warning of attacks from radar, and alternate fields located closeby. Under the auspices of these tools, a horde is converted into a central furball and numerous peripheral independent small fights. Without these tools, how can you avoid an enemy horde who is already on top of you before you had a chance? You could take off from another field, by by the time you get to the horde the base is taken and everyone has landed and there is no fight.
However, some folks like hordes, and I can see how a small-spaced map would tend to prevent those folks from enjoying hording--there is a much greater chance of hitting opposition. The solution to please all crowds is FesterMA, which has both types of gameplay. It also additionally is a large map, which provides you with a large frontline and a large number of bases.
Originally posted by beet1e
On big maps, there will be many more instances where green meets red. That's what the furballers whine about.
Where are you getting this from. Furballers *want* green to meet red, as much as possible. That's the definition of furballing. That is why they complain, because green *doesn't* meet red on large-spaced maps. If what you said was actually true, then furballers wouldn't complain at all.
Originally posted by beet1e
They like the small maps because the furball is pretty much enforced between two bases.
The peripheries of a furball are filled with independent fights. I usually go looking for small (1-3 per side) fights, and almost every time I take off I am able to find this on small-spaced maps. The furball itself automatically creates these fights, caused by people upping from close adjacent bases towards the furball etc. And in addition to that I can always head to the furball, which is fun as well. The only people who are sometimes left out are the horders.
Furthermore, even upping from remote empty bases on small maps can lead to small fights, due to the fact that the enemy has early warning and can see you coming and has time to spontaneously up and gain enough E for a fun fight.
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Originally posted by phookat
1) Horde: large unopposed monocolor blob.
2) Furball: large multi-color blob.
3) Small fight: small multi-color group.
Large-spaced maps: 1.
Small-spaced maps: 2, 3, and a chance of 1.
Fester: 1, 2, and 3. Gives the small-spaced people what they want, and the large-spaced people what they want.
You will never get rid of the horde mentality, regardless of map. The trick is to deal with it in such a way as to break up the horde and turn it into something else. Small-spaced maps offer two tools to accomplish this: earlier warning of attacks from radar, and alternate fields located closeby. Under the auspices of these tools, a horde is converted into a central furball and numerous peripheral independent small fights. Without these tools, how can you avoid an enemy horde who is already on top of you before you had a chance? You could take off from another field, by by the time you get to the horde the base is taken and everyone has landed and there is no fight.
However, some folks like hordes, and I can see how a small-spaced map would tend to prevent those folks from enjoying hording--there is a much greater chance of hitting opposition. The solution to please all crowds is FesterMA, which has both types of gameplay. It also additionally is a large map, which provides you with a large frontline and a large number of bases.
Where are you getting this from. Furballers *want* green to meet red, as much as possible. That's the definition of furballing. That is why they complain, because green *doesn't* meet red on large-spaced maps. If what you said was actually true, then furballers wouldn't complain at all.
The peripheries of a furball are filled with independent fights. I usually go looking for small (1-3 per side) fights, and almost every time I take off I am able to find this on small-spaced maps. The furball itself automatically creates these fights, caused by people upping from close adjacent bases towards the furball etc. And in addition to that I can always head to the furball, which is fun as well. The only people who are sometimes left out are the horders.
Furthermore, even upping from remote empty bases on small maps can lead to small fights, due to the fact that the enemy has early warning and can see you coming and has time to spontaneously up and gain enough E for a fun fight.
Great and very accurate post phookat. Some are referring to relatively EVEN fights between large numbers of people as HORDES. We are referring to a horde as large numbers of one country and a very few if any enemy.
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ok...im not sure of the problem with bish, but big maps compound that problem......
BISH JUST WONT DEFEND infact, very few players from all sides defend, so you end up with attacks here, attacks there....milk running even, due to the fact no one defends.
the problem is with the PEOPLE
a map like festama with close bases on the edges will make "small map feel" while the center is more large map style....why? because people dont seem to wana fly 25miles anymore:(
Picture this
Me: hey guys A1 needs defending
nothing ups
rook horde gets into possition at a1
me: hey guys A1 needs help
bish: but its vulched
me: up from A2 then
bish: but thats 20miles away! ARRG
me: sigh
logged and went to CT
man i whine alot :lol .
oh and another thing, when one side is GANGED and with the least numbers, it normaly turns to the perk planes...262......WTF its disabled! so now we are punished even more!
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I can only pray HT disabled it because it's so porked and they are fixing it, but in the meanwhile, knowing how bad it sucks, he did it so we all wouldn't lose perks getting run down by a zeke in the thing. What a dog she is!
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LOL, I bagged my first 262 the other day. Thought it was my impressive skeelz. :D
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The complaints about the tendency of the large maps here are valid in my eyes. However, I have never seen a map that it was impossible to furball/find small fight/bomb/gv on a limited basis (some more limited than others). There are aspects of each of the big maps I like. As long as like maps are not back to back to back in rotation (ie 3 solid weeks of pizza to bigilse to trinity) Im happy.
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"BISH JUST WONT DEFEND infact, very few players from all sides defend, so you end up with attacks here, attacks there....milk running even, due to the fact no one defends.
the problem is with the PEOPLE"
We defended with honor to the death!!
If it was ours, we defended it!!!
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Originally posted by beet1e
Hardly. Hording is what happens when there is only one or two places where your side has a base adjacent to an enemy base - that's where the horde will be. On big maps, there will be many more instances where green meets red. That's what the furballers whine about. They like the small maps because the furball is pretty much enforced between two bases.
But it doesn't matter. These threads have shown that both big and small maps are needed. Keep both, but make the rotation policy fair. :aok
That sounds wonerfull in theory beetle! I agree with you that logic should dictate that this would happen with a protracted front line. Heck, that's what happens in real war, it's necessary to avoid being flanked. However that's NOT what happens in AH. If that is actually what happened everyone would be happy as clams, but it doesn't happen and we're not happy about it at all. In Aces High, all a protracted front means is a country totally overwhelms another in an isolated portion while another country overwhelms elsewhere. It's a horde-bang vulch fest plain and simple. As has been stated it's human nature to follow the path of least resistance, and unlike in real war there is very little if any concern for larger strategic objectives, such as avoiding being outflanked.
The odd fight tends to break out where one large'ish force meets another but quickly evaporates once one side clearly gains the upperhand, the losing side simply picks up their toys, heads to the other unguarded end and starts a gang-bang vulchfest of their own, if countered there they simply pick up and move once more. You can't blame them, they are just obeying basic human nature, why fight a losing battle in one place, when you can pick-up and go elsewhere and fight a battle you are certain to win?
At least on smaller maps the ability for one side to totally avoid the other is largely negated. Rather than a horde-bang vulch fest by one country, you end up with a large'ish furball and some perimiter fights of a much smaller scale along the periphery of the main fight focussed along a far more concentrated front-line.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Overlag
ok...im not sure of the problem with bish, but big maps compound that problem......
BISH JUST WONT DEFEND infact, very few players from all sides defend, so you end up with attacks here, attacks there....milk running even, due to the fact no one defends.
the problem is with the PEOPLE
a map like festama with close bases on the edges will make "small map feel" while the center is more large map style....why? because people dont seem to wana fly 25miles anymore:(
Picture this
Me: hey guys A1 needs defending
nothing ups
rook horde gets into possition at a1
me: hey guys A1 needs help
bish: but its vulched
me: up from A2 then
bish: but thats 20miles away! ARRG
me: sigh
logged and went to CT
man i whine alot :lol .
oh and another thing, when one side is GANGED and with the least numbers, it normaly turns to the perk planes...262......WTF its disabled! so now we are punished even more!
This coming from a guy who has been pissin' and moaning for HUGE, ENORMOUS, GARGANTUAN FRIGGIN' MAPS for over a month and a half.......The irony of it, Overlag.
Whether the problem is with people or not is rather immaterial. A person can change their ways with some conscious effort, willpower and perseverance, people as a group WILL NEVER CHANGE. I could give a long dissertation lecture on the psychological dynamics of 'group thinking', but I won't, you'll have to just trust me. Group thinking is a consciousness unto itself and is as set in its ways as a mountain of stone.
SO, if people won't change, CHANGE THE FRIGGIN MAP!! It's really, really, really simple. BIG, HUGE, GARGANTUAN MAPS DO NOT FRIGGIN WORK IN AH FOR AIR TO AIR COMBAT. Honestly, which is easier? Changing the inclinations, proclivities, desires, whims, and yearnings of 500 seperate individuals that comprise a group, or changing the friggin' HUGE maps!!!!!????????????
Common sense goes A LONG WAY in this World, some people need to grow some....
Zazen
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Originally posted by Murdr
The complaints about the tendency of the large maps here are valid in my eyes. However, I have never seen a map that it was impossible to furball/find small fight/bomb/gv on a limited basis (some more limited than others). There are aspects of each of the big maps I like. As long as like maps are not back to back to back in rotation (ie 3 solid weeks of pizza to bigilse to trinity) Im happy.
Agreed! :) I posted about this some months ago, suggesting that it was a bad thing for Pizza to be followed by Big Isles. I haven't seen anyone praise Big Isles by the way.
I have accepted that we need both big and small maps to accommodate the somewhat catholic tastes of the player base. I would be happy with a 6-week cycle something like 1) Small maps 2) Pizza 3) Small maps 4) Trinity 5)FesterMA 6)OZKansas. I would get to play on at least 3 weeks out of 6. I hated the way HTC changed the rotation such that if a large map was reset, a small map took its place. :mad:
Zazen13 - my point about green meeting red was in reference to the juxtaposition of the green/red bases, not necessarily the distance between them. So on a small map, for example, there might be only a single pair of Bish/Rook bases which are adjacent - the other bases will be behind the ones forming that pair. Compare that with pizza, where there will be a much longer line of adjacent green/red pairs.
I haven't seen the problems you describe on the large maps, but I don't play during USPT, and that makes a big difference. Coordination is not something I'm used to seeing in games like AH. ;)
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Originally posted by Zazen13
This coming from a guy who has been pissin' and moaning for HUGE, ENORMOUS, GARGANTUAN FRIGGIN' MAPS for over a month and a half.......The irony of it, Overlag.
Whether the problem is with people or not is rather immaterial. A person can change their ways with some conscious effort, willpower and perseverance, people as a group WILL NEVER CHANGE. I could give a long dissertation lecture on the psychological dynamics of 'group thinking', but I won't, you'll have to just trust me. Group thinking is a consciousness unto itself and is as set in its ways as a mountain of stone.
SO, if people won't change, CHANGE THE FRIGGIN MAP!! It's really, really, really simple. BIG, HUGE, GARGANTUAN MAPS DO NOT FRIGGIN WORK IN AH FOR AIR TO AIR COMBAT. Honestly, which is easier? Changing the inclinations, proclivities, desires, whims, and yearnings of 500 seperate individuals that comprise a group, or changing the friggin' HUGE maps!!!!!????????????
Common sense goes A LONG WAY in this World, some people need to grow some....
Zazen
Zazen...i dont think you get the point of my post
there was LOADS of quality fights to be had, IF Bish had botherd to up at ANY base that was being attacked
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Originally posted by Overlag
Zazen...i dont think you get the point of my post
there was LOADS of quality fights to be had, IF Bish had botherd to up at ANY base that was being attacked
... but no, the AH way is to up from a third base in LA7 so as to come in with an alt advantage against the jabos attacking the town. On the small maps, they can be there in two minutes. On the larger maps like Pizza, that might take six whole minutes! The A.D.D. dolts have forgotten why they took off by the time it gets to the fifth minute. :lol Far be it from them to up from the base being attacked. No. Much easier to whine about knit/rook milkrunning "undefended" bases. :rolleyes:;)
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Originally posted by beet1e
... but no, the AH way is to up from a third base in LA7 so as to come in with an alt advantage against the jabos attacking the town. On the small maps, they can be there in two minutes. On the larger maps like Pizza, that might take six whole minutes! The A.D.D. dolts have forgotten why they took off by the time it gets to the fifth minute. :lol Far be it from them to up from the base being attacked. No. Much easier to whine about knit/rook milkrunning "undefended" bases. :rolleyes:;)
hey i was upping from bases 25miles from the fight and having the "boring" "no point" 6 minute flight to the base that needs defending..........but 95.92% of players dont........;)
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Beetle your theory works great if you are the type of person that wants to reduce the fight and stop the other countries ability to fight back.
If you are the type of person that likes the idea of letting the other country's performance decide the outcome rather than their inability to up and defend themselves due to distance of supporting fields, hangers dead or the vulch light being lit, then your theory misses the boat.
There are two camps in this game, the ones that want to win by attrition and the one that want to win by fighting it out. One is a very boring style the other is full of action.
I don't expect you to understand this, but there it is.
You theory also works great if your a....
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/474_1091729948_beet1ecopy.jpg):rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by mars01
There are two camps in this game, the ones that want to win by attrition and the one that want to win by fighting it out. One is a very boring style the other is full of action.
err to me they are both the same attrition of one side is made by fighting is it not?......but there is no attrition in this game theres unlimited resources, which means the game is total "fighting it out" as u call it
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ROFL! I'm printing that picture out, and will hang it on the wall behind my PC. :lol:lol:lol
I love the quarter slot - LOL! What's the rest of the tail text - Royal Something?
Thanks, Lala-boy - made my freaking day! :D:)
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Originally posted by beet1e
ROFL! I'm printing that picture out, and will hang it on the wall behind my PC. :lol:lol:lol
I love the quarter slot - LOL! What's the rest of the tail text - Royal Something?
Thanks, Lala-boy - made my freaking day! :D:)
its the RN skin for the f4u........
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You are arguing semantics, without considering context.
When the bases are too far apart - Meaning there are no support bases close enough to up and get to the base under attack in a timely manner - when the fighter hangers are killed or in the old system when fuel was killed etc that is attrition. If you do anything to reduce the other countries ability to fight back then you are of the attrition camp.
If you rather pummel the other country by massive head to head combat, while not killing FH, Carrier, Fuel etc then you are of the Fight it out camp. You have to push their wave back and cap their field.
Now I agree in choice and would not want to disallow people the right to drop bombs, so the only option is move the fields closer so there is a chance that you would be able to support a field that was currently out of commision due to dead FH or Vulch.
Six minutes between bases is not a timely distance. Anyone decent at base capture will have the field in 3 mins. With this being the case why would any up from another field to play the Johnny Come Lately role over and over?
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Yeah that is a good one wish I could take the credit Beet but that was NOPOOP's genius. I just stole it. See the the thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126034) we missed ya lol.
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Originally posted by mars01
You are arguing semantics, without considering context.
When the bases are too far apart - Meaning there are no support bases close enough to up and get to the base under attack in a timely manner - when the fighter hangers are killed or in the old system when fuel was killed etc that is attrition. If you do anything to reduce the other countries ability to fight back then you are of the attrition camp.
If you rather pummel the other country by massive head to head combat, while not killing FH, Carrier, Fuel etc then you are of the Fight it out camp. You have to push their wave back and cap their field.
Now I agree in choice and would not want to disallow people the right to drop bombs, so the only option is move the fields closer so there is a chance that you would be able to support a field that was currently out of commision due to dead FH or Vulch.
Six minutes between bases is not a timely distance. Anyone decent at base capture will have the field in 3 mins. With this being the case why would any up from another field to play the Johnny Come Lately role over and over?
i think that most of trinity is a bad example of big maps...
big maps doesnt always mean long distances, it just means more fields......
festma!
i for one would like "support" fields...where planes could up for defence (no ord, no perkplanes or something like that)
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I agree Overlag. I like the idea
i for one would like "support" fields...where planes could up for defence (no ord, no perkplanes or something like that)
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Originally posted by mars01
Six minutes between bases is not a timely distance. Anyone decent at base capture will have the field in 3 mins. With this being the case why would any up from another field to play the Johnny Come Lately role over and over?
My advice - take off from the base under attack - if you're as good as you claim to be you should have no trouble. I have done this where the only alternative is to lose the base. Up something that can turn well - I might choose a 109F4, for example. You might want to choose a Sissyfire. :p Stay low - the horde-mongers will dive in with their lalas/runstangs. You'll get prox kills as they pork up the vulch attempt, and some of them will die killshooter deaths as they fight eachother for your scalp. Remember, you can re-up immediately if you die, whereas they will take 6 minutes to get back. What's so bad about that? Also give consideration to manning field ack or GV.
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My advice - take off from the base under attack - if you're as good as you claim to be you should have no trouble. I have done this where the only alternative is to lose the base. Up something that can turn well - I might choose a 109F4, for example. You might want to choose a Sissyfire. Stay low - the horde-mongers will dive in with their lalas/runstangs. You'll get prox kills as they pork up the vulch attempt, and some of them will die killshooter deaths as they fight eachother for your scalp. Remember, you can re-up immediately if you die, whereas they will take 6 minutes to get back. What's so bad about that? Also give consideration to manning field ack or GV.
Beet we've been there done that. See all our old posts for reply.
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Originally posted by beet1e
My advice - take off from the base under attack - if you're as good as you claim to be you should have no trouble.
Up a field that has a horde over it, and get vultched. Great advice. Lots of fun too, for everyone concerned.
BTW, what do you think of FesterMA?
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I do up from vulched fields, I do enjoy the challenge but I will not keep doing it in the face of total futility.
Beetle ignores this tho, because it does not play into his excuses. We all know there is a point that upping is not an option and then we can pick up this conversation where we left off.
He hates Fester, Beetle is totally against closer airfields. He hates people coming to defend from other bases. Interlopers I think he calls them. They take away from his fun in taking undefended fields.:D
I think FesterMA is the model all maps should follow for base distance. It plays well for everyone involved. There are tradeoffs made for everyone. The guys that like fast paced action and shorter fights have the center, and the guys that like longer flights between action can fly on the outer ring.
I also like OZ alot too. Fester has got his finger on how to make a map very playable for everyone.
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Originally posted by beet1e
My advice - take off from the base under attack ...
Why ... so you and your Cherry-Perchin' ™ :lol comrades can score potato ?
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Originally posted by mars01
He hates Fester, Beetle is totally against closer airfields. He hates people coming to defend from other bases. Interlopers I think he calls them. They take away from his fun in taking undefended fields.:D
LOL. :D OK, I won't judge--some people like the undefended fields thing, no problem.
Originally posted by mars01
I think FesterMA is the model all maps should follow for base distance. It plays well for everyone involved. There are tradeoffs made for everyone. The guys that like fast paced action and shorter fights have the center, and the guys that like longer flights between action can fly on the outer ring.
Exactly. I can't see why anyone would dislike the Fester map. Those who like far-spacing of bases (for whatever reason) have a place to play. And so do people who like close-spacing (again, for whatever reason). What's to dislike?
Originally posted by mars01
I also like OZ alot too.
I never played this map. Is it getting "converted" or whatever for AH2?
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Mars01 - you don't undesrtand. If there's a horde at your base, it's worse on the small maps/close fields because the opposition uses conyeyor belt hording. With properly spaced fields as on pizza, it would take many more to keep that coveyor belt going. All you need is a bunch of friends to up with you. I know it's not easy. But if you lose your base because you couldn't be arsed to get off your butt to defend it, try thinking of a more original lament than "Waaaaah - girly milkmaids milkrunning "undefended" bases"...
:rolleyes:
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Beetle the hordes are irrespective of map size or base distance. Wrong Again.
Do you have hordes on small maps YES.
Do you have hordes on big maps YES.
Do you have hordes on FesterMA YES.
Again Nice try:aok
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Originally posted by beet1e
Mars01 - you don't undesrtand. If there's a horde at your base, it's worse on the small maps/close fields because the opposition uses conyeyor belt hording. With properly spaced fields as on pizza, it would take many more to keep that coveyor belt going. All you need is a bunch of friends to up with you. I know it's not easy. But if you lose your base because you couldn't be arsed to get off your butt to defend it, try thinking of a more original lament than "Waaaaah - girly milkmaids milkrunning "undefended" bases"...
:rolleyes:
Your not completely wrong and your not completely right either.
Hordes on a map like AKDesert don't need a "conveyor belt" to sustain the attack.
It usually starts as a mission, and if successful, they then move onto the next target, all the while picking up some new guys that heard over country channel or vox that the last mission was great.
In this scenario, the horde doesn't need the "conveyor belt" to sustain it, people are upping to join with the horde from the newly captured base. Very easy - Very quick !!!
Granted, the notion of some joining the horde from near bases can happen, but not usually on AKDesert.
Now ... with the bases spread out as far as they are on AKDesert, counter-attacks to stop the horde and the horde "conveyor belt" to supply the horde with more lemmings are really not an option.
The real difference is that counter-attacks are more hampered by bases being farther apart than horde supply and growth on AKDesert.
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Originally posted by mars01
I also like OZ alot too. Fester has got his finger on how to make a map very playable for everyone.
:)
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Originally posted by phookat
BTW, what do you think of FesterMA?
By far the best map yet.
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Originally posted by mars01
Beetle the hordes are irrespective of map size or base distance. Wrong Again.
No. You're wrong. But that may be to do with the different times we play. If you're saying there are hordes on Pizza at USPT, I wouldn't know - way into toodle pippage time for me.
But as for baulking about upping from the base under attack in order to save it - Awwwwwww, come on Mars. You've always been on and on about how you like to fly from a disadvantage. But when it comes to saving one of your bases you baulk. Yet another example of you say one thing, and you do another.
OK, here's what I have done in the past. I admit, I don't like tarnishing k/d stats with the seemingly futile task of repelling a horde. Save one plane type for horde repulsion. I suggest 109F4 or 190A5. Every time you die won't affect the k/d in your main rides - the LA7 and Spit9. :D
Mars, you're still my favourite maroon, and I love you. :)(http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/11/11_5_12.gif):) We must wing again - with slapshot - very soon. :)
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Beet your ghey lol. And your not reading all the posts.
Originally posted by:Mars01
I do up from vulched fields, I do enjoy the challenge but I will not keep doing it in the face of total futility.
RIF ( READING IS FUNDAMENTAL )
But as for baulking about upping from the base under attack in order to save it - Awwwwwww, come on Mars. You've always been on and on about how you like to fly from a disadvantage. But when it comes to saving one of your bases you baulk.
Try Again Maroon Boy :aok :D
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Good morning, Lala Boy! :)
I did read your post... Yep, our guys in the BoB had to take off from fields that were being vulched, the difference being that Jerry didn't fly P51/LA7 and couldn't stay too long because of fuel endurance. For England, it was a life or death struggle. The way the films shows it, we DID have a bunch of Interlopers - Leigh Mallory's Big Wing, but they were too far away to do any good, much to the disgruntlement of Air Vice Marshal Parke.
As you said, it IS futile - when the guy you shot two minutes ago is back in 2-3 minutes with a re-armed LA7. I once watched helplessly on one of the children's maps as about 8 guys in a P51 lemming squad staged a pork-n-augerfest at my base. I knew how few of them there were when I got a prox kill on one guy the second time. They were able to keep the conveyor belt going until our field lay in ruins - 25% fuel, and most people just gave up.
It would take many more of them to do a conveyor belt job on Pizza map.
Is there a new map up yet? Haven't logged on - haven't even downloaded Patch 7 yet. :lol
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Originally posted by beet1e
Good morning, Lala Boy! :)
I did read your post... Yep, our guys in the BoB had to take off from fields that were being vulched, the difference being that Jerry didn't fly P51/LA7 and couldn't stay too long because of fuel endurance. For England, it was a life or death struggle. The way the films shows it, we DID have a bunch of Interlopers - Leigh Mallory's Big Wing, but they were too far away to do any good, much to the disgruntlement of Air Vice Marshal Parke.
As you said, it IS futile - when the guy you shot two minutes ago is back in 2-3 minutes with a re-armed LA7. I once watched helplessly on one of the children's maps as about 8 guys in a P51 lemming squad staged a pork-n-augerfest at my base. I knew how few of them there were when I got a prox kill on one guy the second time. They were able to keep the conveyor belt going until our field lay in ruins - 25% fuel, and most people just gave up.
It would take many more of them to do a conveyor belt job on Pizza map.
Is there a new map up yet? Haven't logged on - haven't even downloaded Patch 7 yet. :lol
Why are you such a whinin eurotrash grapefruit? Didnt shooting Lazs' guns do anything to you? :)
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Why are you such a whinin eurotrash grapefruit? Didnt shooting Lazs' guns do anything to you? :)
:confused: What?
Erm, no - what should it have done?
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Ole Shifty you are at it agian.
Problem is beet, you cry about too much fighting and that says alot.:lol
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small or big htc doesnt control the gameplay, Zazen go bish for awhile and get off the 30k perch.
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Originally posted by mars01
Grimm I think the one main problem and disconnect is that there are two objectives.
1) To find a fight and hope it keeps on going.
2) To kill as much strat as you can to reduce the fight and capture a field.
Unfortunately these two objectives are complete opposites and when the two clash there is no resolution.
Personally I like it when a base capture is hard and two sides have to battle it out for hours. Others don't they want to kill strat stop the fight ASAP and quickly take the base.
I think this post needs to be made into a "sticky". It summarized all the whinning in the forum in a few simple sentences. Mars!
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Originally posted by jaxxo
small or big htc doesnt control the gameplay, Zazen go bish for awhile and get off the 30k perch.
I'd sooner choke down a Cockroach N' Maggot sandwich as go Bishops.
Zazen
P.S. I actually consider 30k my hard deck, I cruise around at 38k-42k. ;)
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Originally posted by Zazen13
P.S. I actually consider 30k my hard deck, I cruise around at 38k-42k. ;)
LOL! :lol I was looking at some old films yesterday, and found one where we were fighting the same battle - as Rooks. :) I came in at about 6K (Mars01 would estimate my alt as 19K) and you were at about 4K (15K on Mars01's altimeter ;) )