Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: MarkVZ on January 16, 2000, 11:17:00 AM
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I see rooks moving in on bish 21, so I grab a fighter to defend. Right in front of me is this B26 sitting on the runway waiting for someobdy to pop up. (lyijy) I get shot down numerous times before I can even roll. There was a goon inbound, and I knew the B26's nose ammo is extinguished quickly, so I keep trying. No time to launch from another base. Finally I taxi over and blow this dweeb to bitts, and we intercept the goon. This person then whines that he had to do it because it's too easy to strafe troops.
I would like to see either the ability to select which end of the runway you start on, or disabling the enemies guns on the ground when on another field. I see nothing wrong with vulching, but this was just lame.
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Mark VanZwoll
33rd Strike Group
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What I know, we are missing field closure here.
You can bomb every single building out of field but still one guy can come up numerous times and shoot troopers while rolling up (not even several CAP fighters can prevent that)
So I ask, where from you get your unlimited planes from potato field and how do you suddenly raise from death in matter of seconds? thats kind of BS also.
More field captures than I can remember, have end up short just because 1-3 guys comes up below 10 CAP planes and kills +30 paratroopers while *STILL* rolling on the field.
Thats not any fairer either against attacker, why should we give fair times for defender which uses his own abuse of unlimited planes?
IMO, I wan't to be able to close field and fast! we get over this vulch / c47 / defending problem..
One of my suggestions is to split runway into three parts, and when one is destroyed, one class of fighters is disabled at the field (when all 3 parts gone, field is officially closed)
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Ya i agree. When a field is totally blasted, dont seem right that the guys can just keep taking off.
Seems like after a particular amout of damage field should be inactive. If guys what to defend, they gotta fly over to it.
My 2cents, Let's Flyyyyyyy
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SgtSpike
v355 Fighter Group
Steeple Morden Strafers
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I have thought about this a few times as I vulched the same person for 5th time.
I suppose at this piont it has more to do with testing the game / server, than gameplay.
Mino
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I agree with the field closure thing, I just didn't see the realism in some uberbuff sitting on our runway blasting planes as they came up. Have you ever heard of this happening in real life? In real life fighters wouldnt keep taxiing to a place right in front of him to take off! This is why I think we should be able to select the end of the runway, (or which runway for bomber fields) to take off from. To close a field, however, should take alot (and I mean alot) of bombs, maybe 10,000lbs like at the HQ, directed at the runways or something. We should be able to crater the runway, so that planes can not roll over it without collapsing their gear. (Ever see a P51 taxi over a 20 foot deep hole?)
However I still believe that a properly capped field will get taken over. Setting up some sort of vulching pattern for these 10 fighters would ensure nobody gets rolling. Also, it has alot to do with the 47 pilot. I laugh when I see a 47 try to capture our feilds, dropping their troops from 5,000 feet. When I fly goon misions, I go on the deck and try to land right next to the map room to release, also trying to put my plane between the fighters and my men, so that by the time they kill me my men are already there. I think the main problem here is not that troops are too easily killed, but the lack of strategy and organization on the part of the team trying to capture the base.
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Mark VanZwoll
33rd Strike Group
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Yup.. Mino I think you are right regarding the current system being used as a yardstick for server testing. At least I hope thats why we have the current situation. Hate to think that this situation will continue much longer now that the trike geared AC are showing up.
Seems that the 'strategic' implications of not having the ability to fully close the field are aggravating to the nth degree to the players that enjoy that aspect. I've flown several perfectly executed C47 missions that failed now that the B26 is there; parked, slashing the troops to ribbons as they touch down.
On the other hand; I've on many (too many)occasions 'parked' my p51 in a close figure eight pattern over the end of the runway, rolling into the 'tactical' aspect of runway supression; destroying the poor souls desperately trying to reup and save their field.
This is not nearly as enjoyable as a good hard fight in the canyons; or defending bombers or running a high cap... and multiple kills obtained by gunning stationary fighters leaves me feeling uncomfortable. It is however, absolutley necessary for strategic success.. can't capture the field without it as the sim stands now.
My guess is it will change.. I hope soon.
Hang
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PALE HORSES
"I looked, and behold; a Pale Horse, and it's riders name was Death, and Hell followed with him" Rev 6.8
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Actually, I got blasted by the exact same guy when going up at a field today, also in a B26, and I just thought 'Hmm, nice idea' (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I was fairly POed at the time because both rooks and bishops were allied and destroying the knight resistance of an awesome 6 people, but it was still a smart idea.
Later on today, a co-ordinated attempt to take a rook field ended in failure when a rook N1K popped up and killed a troop before we could get him. Makes me want to try the B26 strategy myself.
Field closures would be nice, either that or having pilots have to run to the runway from the tower in order to take off... let's see how THEY like being strafed (G)
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lister
XO, Red Dragons
(Aces High Division)
http://www.reddragons.de (http://www.reddragons.de)
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HT likes the fields staying open and I agree with him. The reason it is good, is due to the fact that HUGE furballs tend to occur at these fields when they can't be closed. i.e. upwards of 20-30 planes. If they could be closed then any smoe with a b17/b26 and another smoe with a c47 could capture a field.. that is very dull.
However, I do think it could be improved and have mentioned time and time again the implementation of a plane attrition system. i.e. 50 p51s, 40 spits, etc.. available at a field and the "queue" regenerates at a certain rate.. if the attacker destroys enough planes from that field then no more planes will be available (until they are regenerated 1 at a time, regeneration rate "could" be affected by bombing aircraft factories etc..). This would stop everyone from flying uber planes.. but HTC doesn't seem to like the idea (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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If a field has been captured all remaining defending pilots should get in the 'joy bus' (hehe) a go to another friendly field. Recapture efforts starting from another field makes sense but not planes popping up over and over on the already blitzed one. That's dis-knee land stuff.
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Saw this dude just a few minutes ago doing it again. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
When people are shooting the planes just as they pop up, then there won't be much furballing going on, and the server test have therefore failed due to this.
Something should be done to prevent it.
Bod
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Um.
"Real Life" arguments. DOn't work. The "proper field capture" strategy has about as much to do with RL™ as parking at the respawn point, or traditional vulching.
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I dont like the park the b26 trick either. But they are vulnerable to bombs... And it is perfectly reasonable considering the game the way it is designed.
But...
Paras should capture bridges
Bridges should lead to objectives.
Objectives should be caputured by ground troops.
Ground troops should be supported or greatly aided by air supperiority
Air supperiority is ensured by heavily capped and suppressed air bases.
HTC knows all this but they are doing the best they can. They are of course focusing on the fighter game. And in the absence of infanty to take ground(bases) the fighters and now bombers are used as infantry.
The marauder should have its nose guns turned off on the ground I would say, but that in itself is kind of a fudge.
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quick & easy solution to the problem:
Disable guns on all aircrafts that are on the ground. Keeps B26 from sitting at the respawn point and defenders from shooting paras while still on ground. What you think?
There nothing wrong with vulching and there nothing wrong with strafing paras *WHILE AIRBORNE*
Kirin out
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One thing to consider when arguing against the continual re-spawning at a capped base..
The other side of the coin would then dictate that the attackers..once shot down by the defenders cannot re-spawn from their base as well. I know some will argue that the attackers have to travel a distance and all that, so the defenders already enjoy some sort of an advantage. But if taken to its logical conclusion then once an attacker is shot down, he should not be able to re-up so quickly to re-join the attack.
I believe we should be able to close the bases. I also believe that 1 bomber should not be able to close the base as it is now. I also believe the ack should be a little less accurate but more plentiful so that higher alt ack is added and more lower stuff, including .50 cal machine nests.
So yes, have the ability to close a base, but also have the ability to thin out the ranks of the attackers, or at least make them divert resources from another battle area. I think then you will see folks have the incentive to live through a sortie instead of flying and shooting until they are dead, and then just go get another plane. It should be for both sides, attackers and defenders.
I am one of those guys that defends a base to the bitter end..continually re-spawning (stupid competitive streak hates to loose any kind of ground). But I would welcome the ability to close a base and to inflict attrition on the attackers as well.
The B-26 thing that started this thread, I have experienced it...from the same person..I was releasing paras from a capped field (barracks were still up). I myself don't know if the para thing is a lame move or not...still debating that one (but leaning that it is a bit gamey), so I cannot say the 26 move is dweebish. What is dweebish is to complain about any kind of "gaming" behavior if you are also blurring the lines with a move like the 26 runway move.
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Member of the Flying Elvis's...AH's most elite parachute team...
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I agree with most of you. If you destroy everything at a field, why should a figher be able to take off at the last minute, fly for 20 seconds, and ruin all the planning that went into a mission. Fields should be closed after everything is destroyed.
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Kirin,
Idea is good, but planes like spitfires can take off after couple hundred yards of rolling.. and when you know you can as well crash while trying to strafe para or get killed by fighter, its almost same.
Too fast way to kill paras..
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How about paras firing back ?
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Hristo, right on the money there.......i would love to see paras firing back when their feet hit the ground.
Didn't HT disable the ground shoot option for B17s...couldn't he just do the same for the B26?
Jarbo
of the Buccaneers
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Thanks, Jarbo. Actually, I was even thinking that paras should be able to fire all the way, from the point they open chute until they hit the tower.
However, this might lead to some stupid tactics. C 47, spotted by a fighter, drops its paras and starts to circle around them, hoping they will hit attacking fighter.
Also, field defense C 47 could drop many paras on the runway and have multiple acks instantly.
Hmm, this needs thinking (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Of course in WB there are runway craters, and
Fields can be closed. Result? fields could be taken by a couple of bombed up 190's
(personal experience) I think that a bombed runway should be usable by only short field fighters, which would stop buffs doing anything there. As for guns on paras, only on the ground, historically it was impossible to hit anything from a chute,
(personal experience again)
and the gameplay problems are self-evident,
And HT, maybe we could try bombed out fields
have only 25% fuel and ammo, which might make trying to defend from them highly unattractive (just an idea, if there's a hole in the logic, lemme know) I'd really like hardstands around the fields, hit all of them, and no planes are available at the field (even if bldgs and ack are still up)
a small field would have about 6-8 dispersal
areas, which would make it hard to get them without effort. The idea being not only could you close a field, but a combined strike could leave the closest enemy field
unable to sortie, which would finally make people think about base defense and give counter-air the role it was supposed to be filling. Now I have no freakin idea how hard that would be to code, so feel free to tell me to shut up and siddown (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) but hey, the internet was meant for exchanging ideas
(before the megacorps and porn sites buried it) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"
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There was a recent post that contained a film called Fishu vs. Daniko. The messages that appear in the text buffer may shed some light on the mysterious B-26 dweeb. I suggest we take him out behind the Rook HQ and beat the toejam out of him. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
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On many threads there are issues concerning the right and wrongs of aircraft FM's. Everyone wants perfection or the virtual sim realities of it with the aircraft.
But then we see these threads (some) which support the idea of open respawning fields.
We know that when a field has been neutralised in real life with something as devasting as a bombed runway that it can be repaired by support ground personnal. But aircraft in the meantime cannot use the runway until it is.
If we demand (wrong word but fits the theme (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ) perfection in the air with our FM's. It surely makes sense to be consistant when we apply it to whats happening on the ground.
So if the Dogfights occur to protect a field under attack them let them. An easy way of doing it without having to allow the field to be as good as it was had it not been attacked with aircraft allowed to use its runways, is to have the field damage time controlled.
Hence if the runway is nuked by an overhead bomber, like the Dars, the runway is unusable.
Yes I hear you say already this is the case. Fishu's suggestion then has merit. Split the multi runways into sections. Each with its own damage points. Extend the damage life of a runway.
Hence the defending fighters can still get off to defend the remaining runway/s and the attackers can still pursue their goal to close all runways and ultimately close the field.
Bombers on damaged runways have guns disables until wheels leave the ground and bombers on usuable runways have the ability to "shoot from the hip"
I also like the idea of secondary objectives given ie para's taking bridges to support land attacks. This would allow better use of the rockets and ground attack weaponary.
Some AA guns and a mob of marauding 51's, some high cap over the attackers and inbounds intent on knocking them down and it'll be fun fun fun (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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SC-Sp00k
Sqn Ldr
SSC
http://www.picknowl.com.au/homepages/oneshot/main.htm
**Its not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.**
Skeleton Crew
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Craters should prevent aircraft from from rolling through them. However cratering a runway should not and does not close an airfield. All WWII aircraft were capable of taking off and landing on grass fields (and most did). A perfectly good landing in the grass near a field should not be a ditch. Most lame is a fighter strafing a runway with guns and destroying it. A short delay before respawn at same field might help. But coordinated strafing has become very effective - I must salute the Rooks on their vulching prowness. I like defending bases to the bitter end and used to be able to get off the ground and kill a few attackers at least once out of 3 tries but lately I hace not been able to launch even after 15 or more tries. No more for me. If heavily capped - I will go to nearly by base and attack from altitude. Coming down on group of fighters "capping a field" makes multiple kill sorties much easier.