Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Aces High Bug Reports => Topic started by: SKZooty on August 05, 2004, 05:42:46 PM
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I am posting in the hope of making HiTech aware of a serious bug concerning bomber gunning. This may have been brought up before, but I am not aware of any responses from HiTech management or support.
Basically, if a fighter closes within about 400 to 600 feet of a bomber, he becomes extremely difficult to hit. This has been happening since the debut of AH-2, but now I am noticing that savvy fighter pilots are becoming aware of the bug and are exploiting it. (I suppose this post will just make the problem worse for us buff pilots ;) )
Case in point . . .
Last Sunday I was flying a mission to pound a Bishop base when a Spit climbed lazily up and made his attack run at my 6 o'clock--never a good choice for a lone fighter pilot taking on three undamaged B17s.
Prior to AH2, I would have poured lead from my tail guns and that would have been the end of him in most cases, but this fellow obviously knew about the bug. He hurriedly climbed my six, bobbing and jinking all the way, until he was within 600 feet. To my amazement, he throttled back and just sat there with his guns blazing.
All three of my B17s were filling my gun sight with tracers--dead on target--and only one or two touched him. Desperately I began panning my guns back and forth, hoping to find the magic spot in the hit bubble. Too late; I was down in flames seconds later.
I'm not asking for an unfair advantage, just a return to a more historically accurate gunnery response. It is difficult to imagine that a Luftwaffe pilot could hover 500 feet behind a B17 formation and hardly suffer a scratch.
Aces High is a terrific sim, and I enjoy the community, but if this bug isn't recognized and fixed, there is little point for a bomber pilot to remain. There is no use struggling to reach a target if you can't defend yourself when attacked.
Thanks . . . Zooty
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Surround yourself with P-47's and P-51's.
8th Air Force did.
Still took terrible losses.
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Originally posted by Blooz
Surround yourself with P-47's and P-51's.
8th Air Force did.
Still took terrible losses.
the guy has a point.
and i doubt any buff hunter in WWII came dead 6 a B17, once they worked out how damaging it was....... Where as in AHII they do excatly what the guy explaned, they come dead 6, get 400-600 yards away, cut there throttle and just hang there, autolevel shooting at you. yet YOU cant hit him for some unknown reason
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In July I had 18 kills from my bomber guns.
Just like all other gunnery in AH2, its just a little more sensitive. I have not noticed an invulnerable spot for a fighter on my six. Infact many of those kills were at that position.
Check your convergence...
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Check your convergence...
Sssssshhhhhh! ;)
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Originally posted by KurtVW
In July I had 18 kills from my bomber guns.
Just like all other gunnery in AH2, its just a little more sensitive. I have not noticed an invulnerable spot for a fighter on my six. Infact many of those kills were at that position.
Check your convergence...
doesnt make a difference
200 or 800 or anything, all guns converge at 1000 :mad:
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Ive noticed exactly the same thing. I flew buffs alot for the last 6 mos of AH1 and as soon as the changeover happend I noticed it.
even with a plane on your 6 so big you cant miss it the rounds seem to go right through it with no damage. What gives anyway?I can usually do more damage at 600 than 200.
The other thing is if you have one Bomber lose its engines and you have to ditch the others lose their wings and someone gets 3 easy kills. It wasnt this way in AH1 . Is this a bug or is it a new set-up?
Thanks
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A lag issue? Haven't notice that problem as of yet. Tonight I took out a 262 trying to knock my bomber down. Nailed him at 600 yards.
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The AH2 gunnery model and damage model is more difficult...but anyone comming up on my 6 is in deep dookie. One key is often shooting well before he is THAT close. Pick a wing and plug away. I have noticed that machine gun fire is less effective at extreem ranges against hard targets....but enough rounds will aleviate the burden of one wing :D
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golly you guys dont watch tv that much d ya.
you ever seen that video of a gunsight view of german plane coming up on a b17? he puts a couple of rounds into elevator, then a couple in the belly he then fires at the engine/ prop.
you never once saw the tail gunner fire.
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prolly because the TG was already dead.
and remember the souce. NAZI propaganda, they don't keep the film where the fighter dies.
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I was hit last night at this range by a lancaster gunner,hit my engine,forced to ditch,sitting on the 6 is deadly!
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Isn't this because the buff guns no longer converge at less than 1000 the way they used to in AH1?
Just another example of gameplay being changed towards the furballers/fighters at the expense of other peoples enjoyment.
Was bad enough when buffs lost the cover of darkness.
I have been pinged at 1000 by B17s etc, but they do seem to have probs when your really close in.
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its TOTALY unrelistic now, im talking from BOTH sides of the fence
i fly fighters AND buffs and its just TOTALY unfair for buffs now, theres no way in real life a fighter would fly dead 6 at 200-800yards and NOT die. People are working this out now, if they are 1k out they are in trouble if they are within 1k they are fine. Bring back the old days when fighters have to WORK for there kills on bombers
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Please.
Oh yes, bring back the days of the one ping kills at 2k range.
Sheesh.
You bomber guys are just finding out the same thing the fighter jocks found out early in AH2. The gunnery is different now. We're adjusting and you need to adjust too. The target is smaller. You need to be more precise in your aiming and lead.
Oh, by the way. Bombers are alot tougher to knock down for us too. It works both ways.
In real life youd have a man at each gun station defending the tails of a formation. They would also have an escort of fighters. Gee, I wonder why? Isn't a zillion .50 cals enough to defend themselves? I guess not.
You bomber guys got to stop flying alone. It's worse when you try to be gunner and pilot too.
Work as a team. Get together and stay alive. As long as you guys play the lone wolf, you'll be shot down every time with little effort.
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They are just changing the buffs to be rid of that terrible scourge the"buff troller".How many guys fly buffs just to troll for fighters?:D
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Isn't this because the buff guns no longer converge at less than 1000 the way they used to in AH1?
Nothing has changed in the way convergance works on bombers. But I know we must have a big conspericy going on.
All that has changed is the hit detection, just like in fighters.
There is always a possiblity of a bug, but in this case it sounds more like you are just missing.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
All that has changed is the hit detection, just like in fighters.
HiTech
Could you give us some more info about this? :)
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Sat in a buff with con at 600yrds pinging the crap outta him with little damage. If convergence hasn't changed from AH1, how come that was suicide in AH1, but they can do it AH2? It was almost like only 1 set of guns was hitting him.
In fact on the subject of buffs - Any chance of finally fixing the dive bombing Lancs etc, and the damage from 1 being transferred to all 3? Only been around since AH1.
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Originally posted by Blooz
Please.
Oh yes, bring back the days of the one ping kills at 2k range.
Sheesh.
WE are not saying that :rolleyes: and infact THAT is still possble, if you had even BOTHERD to read this thread our problems with the guns are the fact that they CANT HIT (concentrated damage) within 1k, NOTE WITHIN, outside 1k they are still good....
Originally posted by Blooz
You bomber guys are just finding out the same thing the fighter jocks found out early in AH2. The gunnery is different now. We're adjusting and you need to adjust too. The target is smaller. You need to be more precise in your aiming and lead.
Fighter gunnery is EASY for me with AHII, because i never got used to the laser straight bullets in AHI, meaning that the new gunnery worked better for me. Because of this in AHI i was almost solely a bomber pilot........
Originally posted by Blooz
Oh, by the way. Bombers are alot tougher to knock down for us too. It works both ways.
Bombers are still easy to down if you come in from angles, but because of the useless guns now, most people come dead 6, which doesnt really allow you to hit stuff easy.... Coming down, or up on Bombers wings will kill them fast, not to mention the HO attack, BUT since its so easy to fly behind bombers now, everyone does.
right now, i fly both bombers and fighters probably 50/50 of my time, bombers are TOO easy/hard too kill/defend now, and thats coming from BOTH sides of the "fence"
Originally posted by Blooz
In real life youd have a man at each gun station defending the tails of a formation. They would also have an escort of fighters. Gee, I wonder why? Isn't a zillion .50 cals enough to defend themselves? I guess not.
read some stuff mate. German fighters DID NOT come in dead 6 on bombers after a couple of months of fighting because they KNEW it was going to kill them. The fighters came in from HO position, or side slashing attacks. This is why we needed allied fighters up, because these sort of attacks was very hard to defend against. coming right up the back of a bomber was a sure easy way to end your war.........
Originally posted by Blooz
You bomber guys got to stop flying alone. It's worse when you try to be gunner and pilot too.
Work as a team. Get together and stay alive. As long as you guys play the lone wolf, you'll be shot down every time with little effort.
im guessing your a rook? Both the other sides never really have the numbers to throw into big missions........oh and how is it going to help if you have more bombers up? your guns still dont work
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Originally posted by hitech
Nothing has changed in the way convergance works on bombers. But I know we must have a big conspericy going on.
:rolleyes: Ok... no one used the word conspiracy from my group and I do appreciate you responding to the boards as often as you have been as of late.
I understand that the hit model has changed as I did some testing on the convergence of the bomber guns (Alpo's testing (http://www.skbg.org/Training.htm) ) and I'm in total agreement that convergence did not change.
Originally posted by hitech
All that has changed is the hit detection, just like in fighters.
... and the 1200 yard limitation on the .50 cals. Note: I'm not saying that's inaccurate... it's just different. Add to that the change in icon readout, gunning at distance became more difficult. No problem, no complaints, I hated getting that golden .50 in the radiator at 1200-1400 yds like the rest of you.
However, (there's always a however :p), I've seen just as Overlag has, that in a fighter, there seems to be a "safer" zone. Note that I'm not calling it SAFE, it's just that it seems like you don't catch as much lead at under 600 yards.
I consider myself a fair shot in a buff and I've seen the fighters zoom up into the less than 600 yard zone and only be able to register a couple of pings. It's not until I start moving the gun sight all around the fighter do I see more hit sprites... if I survive long enough.
Originally posted by hitech
There is always a possiblity of a bug, but in this case it sounds more like you are just missing.
Fair enough, but is there any way to test this from our end? :confused: Anything done in the training or dueling arena will be largely subjective in nature without some measure of hit count. One random thought... could the offline target be modified to perhaps to incorporate a silhouette of a Spitfire (or perhaps an La7 ;)) so we can see where rounds would be landing on an actual plane?
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Originally posted by hitech
Nothing has changed in the way convergance works on bombers. But I know we must have a big conspericy going on.
All that has changed is the hit detection, just like in fighters.
There is always a possiblity of a bug, but in this case it sounds more like you are just missing.
HiTech
hitech, since the guns are all but useless over 1k now how about allowing the bombers to converge under 1k?
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The gunnery is fine,I have flown both bombers and fighters,and have had succes and faliure,as both.Somtimes I hit easily, others I struggle,in both.
Lets not forget that flying unescorted bombers was suicidal,for both the British and the Germans,who both switched to night ops,for unescorted missions,the Americans also suffered heavily in 1943,even with escorts,the 8th airforce suffered appalling aircrew losses,which would not be acceptable by todays standards.
You honestly think you can fly to your target,bomb it,shoot down the defending fighters with your Turret guns, then return home.:rofl
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Originally posted by scott123
The gunnery is fine,I have flown both bombers and fighters,and have had succes and faliure,as both.Somtimes I hit easily, others I struggle,in both.
Lets not forget that flying unescorted bombers was suicidal,for both the British and the Germans,who both switched to night ops,for unescorted missions,the Americans also suffered heavily in 1943,even with escorts,the 8th airforce suffered appalling aircrew losses,which would not be acceptable by todays standards.
You honestly think you can fly to your target,bomb it,shoot down the defending fighters with your Turret guns, then return home.:rofl
well we lost night because of whining furballers so what else are we suppose to do
most fighter pilots dont want to escort bombers....
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Originally posted by scott123
Lets not forget that flying unescorted bombers was suicidal,for both the British and the Germans,who both switched to night ops,for unescorted missions,the Americans also suffered heavily in 1943,even with escorts,the 8th airforce suffered appalling aircrew losses,which would not be acceptable by todays standards.
Let's not forget that the issue here is a question of why can a single fighter SOMETIMES sit at d200-d600 and plink away while it's almost impossible to get a hit sprite.
I'm not saying it's everytime... but it's a lot more common. If you want to quote history, a buff is now better off opening up d1000+ than at d400, does that make sense?
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hitech, since the guns are all but useless over 1k now how about allowing the bombers to converge under 1k?
Was thinking of this, just before I read your post. Will change it to 500 yards for next patch.
Alpo: The conspericy was in this statment.
Just another example of gameplay being changed towards the furballers/fighters at the expense of other peoples enjoyment
He implies that we have an intent to change toward furballers. Hence a conspericy to destroy what he considers fun.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
Was thinking of this, just before I read your post. Will change it to 500 yards for next patch.
HiTech
thanks!
600 will make me feel better :D
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Originally posted by hitech
Was thinking of this, just before I read your post. Will change it to 500 yards for next patch.
Alpo: The conspericy was in this statment.
He implies that we have an intent to change toward furballers. Hence a conspericy to destroy what he considers fun.
HiTech
Ahhh... I see that now. I was thinking you were talking about Zooty ;) The patch you discuss will be an interesting change!
I don't suppose there is anyway to tie the actual convergence setting in the hanger to where the formation guns converge instead of a hard coded distance? :D Hey, a guy can ask ;)
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While your at it, add bounce to the MG's...
I get tired of getting killed by the Bomber's laser guns.
Frstrm
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Conspiracy in my statement !!!!
Was only voiceing my own opinion on the way I believe things have been going. Nothing conspiratorial in that.
A conspiracy requires two or more people to carry out a deed with the intent to cover it up. I never accused you of that. In fact you have always been quite open regarding game changes.
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Alpo,sorry,I think you may have a point after my post,I took up a ki 67,at 20k I was attacked by 2 Spitfires,at 600 I seemed to be getting hits,but the closer They got the harder it seemed to be to get hits.I think you do have a point,that said,I did shoot one down,and the other broke off the attack,after I had lost 2 drones.
Sorry again:)
And thx HTC:aok
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Originally posted by scott123
Alpo,sorry,I think you may have a point after my post,I took up a ki 67,at 20k I was attacked by 2 Spitfires,at 600 I seemed to be getting hits,but the closer They got the harder it seemed to be to get hits.I think you do have a point,that said,I did shoot one down,and the other broke off the attack,after I had lost 2 drones.
Sorry again:)
And thx HTC:aok
No problem... I'm just thrilled to hear it's not just us seeing it.
It just bugs me when I know the guy is a Spit V as all I'm hearing is the .303s "tap tap tapping" and I'm losing system after system and he's d200 filling my gun sight :rofl
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Could the bomb gunner problem be related to the colision detection problem?
You know, how when you get into a certain "range" in external view, your cockpit kicks in/out? Perhaps there are other "ranges" for other displays for when fighters are closing in, where at the "closest" range the hit detection is fubared.
That would explain the rash of complaints about colisions being off, and might explain why you can't HIT anybody if they're close, because the detection is off for both guns and hits?
I don't know, I'm speculating here...
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Starting to wonder if not just buffs, but a hit detection problem for all aircraft.
Had a P38 pass right in front of me a d0 according range counter, let loose with Tiffy cannons seen hit sprites, guy reported taking no hits. Had La7 on my tail at d0 spraying away took no hits.