Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Wotan on August 05, 2004, 06:05:24 PM

Title: 109 recovered in Russia
Post by: Wotan on August 05, 2004, 06:05:24 PM

Post on UBI and SimHQ

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=98;t=011774

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=776101785

and a link to the orig pics

http://forums.games.1c.ru/?type=thread&msgid=1015529

(http://v-luki.ru/foto/il2/1/birki.jpg)

From reading both threads Butch has posted 2 possible indenties of the aircraft / pilot

Quote

Here is the info Guys :
It appears he was Kurt Stöber of 7./JG 54

10438
Bf 109G-2
Stöber, Fw. Kurt
7./JG 54
blaue 1 + ^^
15-1-43 0:00:00
POW, cause unknown. FSA.
Russia
(Welikije-Luki)
100%

In the pics above there is Ltn. shoulder bar. The other possibility according to Butch:

Quote

Note that there was another aircraft lost the same day at the same place:
10423
Bf 109G-2
Deege, Ltn. Alfred
7./JG 54
blaue 10 + ^^
15-1-43
MIA after Luftkampf.
Russia
(Welikije-Luki)
100%

It's possible there was a mixup at the unit level when recording the aircraft WkNrs and that Ltn Deege flew 10438 rahter than 10423.
Indeed a few things would point towards the remains being those of the Ltn.

Title: 109 recovered in Russia
Post by: Pongo on August 05, 2004, 06:09:48 PM

good to see he planned to practice safe sex.

Title: 109 recovered in Russia
Post by: Guppy35 on August 05, 2004, 06:33:26 PM

Amazing what they still are recovering in Russia.  A sad story just the same.

I recall seeing images of a Russian flown Hurricane that had gone down in a bog. They had pulled the pilot's body out and it was still intact after all those years.  

Thanks for posting the image and the links.

Dan/Slack

Title: 109 recovered in Russia
Post by: Wotan on August 05, 2004, 10:59:28 PM

Yet another possibility.

It could be  black 1 of Max-Hellmuth Ostermann.

From here:

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/ostermann.html

 

Quote

In February 1942, Oberleutnant Ostermann was appointed Staffelkapitän of 8./JG 54. He was awarded the Eichenlaub (Nr 81) on 12 March. On 31 March, he claimed his 79th and 80th victories and his 89th and 90th on 29 April.Ostermann recorded his 97th victory on 10 May, but was shot down shortly afterward surviving unharmed. On 12 May he became the seventh pilot in World War 2 to achieve 100 victories, although he was shot down in Bf 109 F-4 (W.Nr. 13 125) “Black 1” on that occasion suffering wounds in the process. He was awarded the Schwertern on 17 May. Ostermann was afforded leave following the award and did not return to combat duty until August. On 9 August 1942, Ostermann, flying Bf 109 G-2 (W.Nr. 10 438) “Black 1”, shot down a Russian Curtiss P-40 fighter for his 102nd, and last, victory, but shortly after was shot down and killed in a dogfight with Soviet fighter pilots in the vicinity of Amossovo.

That seems to be the opinion of a poster on the 12 o'clock high forum.

http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?disc=3051;article=83056;title=Luftwaffe%20Discussion%20Group%3A%2012%20O%27Clock%20High%21

Title: 109 recovered in Russia
Post by: spitfiremkv on August 06, 2004, 11:07:12 AM

oh hell, so that's where I left it...

Title: 109 recovered in Russia
Post by: butch2k on August 06, 2004, 12:15:51 PM

From the research i have conducted it's most likely that Ltn Albert Deege flew on that fateful day on Fw Stöber usual a/c, the latter surviving the war while the formar is to this day still MIA.
Most probably the personal items found on the site belonged to Stöber who probably kept them in his a/c since they were at that time regularly moving from place to place.
I'm still waiting for confirmation that the wedding ring was not found on the corpse.