Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SunKing on August 06, 2004, 10:20:58 AM
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Would I be justified in assaulting someone caught in the act of breaking into and attempting to steal me car?
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I imagine if you could put a knife in thier hand (without your prints on them of course ) after you've knocked them unconscious and told the police that they attacked you when confronted them as they were breaking & entering your vehicle.
Otherwise I don't think so - in California anyway. There I think they'd let the actual criminal go and you'd be the one arrested.
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You can defend your property, but the level of violence you use must reflect the level of violence the perp is using against you. If he is only going after your property, and not your person, you can not use much force.
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Probably depends on what State your in, but if it was in
my state you would definitely be prosecuted. Use of force
is only justified when you have an IMMEDIATE need to protect
yourself or others. Protecting property is never a defense
to using physical force.
Further... " IMMEDIATE need" basically means that if you
have an escape route, you better use it.
SO, basically what I'm saying is...beat the crap outta da guy
messing wit your wheels, den puts a gun in his hands when he
all unconcious.
I stand slightly corrected: You can "detain" anyone commiting
a felony..I believe this is held in all states under the constitution.
Detaining someone is considered "use of force", not to mention
it is an outright "Citizen's arrest".. Problem with that is you
open up a WHOLE can of worms when it comes to civil liability
on yourself if you hurt the poor SOB. Best to leave the crime
bustin to the cops. Property can always be replaced.
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As for what Westy has said...
I'm not condoning murder, but.. If he's dead he can't testify,
just my 2 cents.:rolleyes:
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Unf***ing believable. As I came back into my home to call in the Sheriff report , chat with a friend and post this thread, the assailant went right back into to my car and proceded to rip out and further damage my ignition switch. In the matter of 5 mins in full view of anyone leaving for work. This feeling the of being targeted and victimized is terrible. At least the replacement of the switch is cheap.
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Ohhhmann.. Sounds like you live in Cleveland...not Cali.
Take a baseball bat out with you..nothing illegal about that.
Thats IF you want to risk your life over a property issue.
Again though..leave it to the cops... you hurt him and he's gonna
not only get your car, but everything you own in the long run
when he sues you.
Sad as it is, crime really DOES pay.
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Sun, I'm pretty sure you can be arrested for taking the law into your own hands when it is not within the confines of your household, threatening you or your family. Depends on the judge. I put someone down after they beat up a woman, and I was arrested, but the woman testified in my behalf and charges were dropped. (Insert next Creamo response following this post)
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On the other hand.
You'd hate to find out afterwards that he was a member of a gang and after bail was set and while awaiting trial he and a dozen of his buds came back to eliminate the witness or change your mind about what you saw via some unsavory physical persuasion methods.
So either kill em (sound like it's too late), call the cops or buy another stereo and get an attack dog who likes to live inside automobiles.
Sorry for this crap you've gone through this morning.
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Originally posted by SunKing
Would I be justified in assaulting someone caught in the act of breaking into and attempting to steal me car?
Only if a person/child was in the car he was trying to steal.
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Don't have a clue on California law. In Texas you can use nessesary force to detain a theif until police arrive. If the person is on YOUR private property and APPROACHING you and you feel threatened, deadly force is legal.
One of my high school classmates mother shot and killed her son's mother-in-law in the front yard and was never charged because witnesses saw the unarmed victim approaching her while being told to leave. It was big news in a town of 600.
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In Arizona, you can use non-deadly force and threaten to use deadly force to protect their premises. Premises being defined as any real property and any structure, movable or immovable, permanent or temporary, adapted for both human residence and lodging whether occupied or not. So, using physical force to defend your car is legal in Arizona.
BTW, using a baseball bat would be considered using deadly force (a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument) and you'd be rung up for agg assault.
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Originally posted by Dune
In Arizona, you can use non-deadly force and threaten to use deadly force to protect their premises. Premises being defined as any real property and any structure, movable or immovable, permanent or temporary, adapted for both human residence and lodging whether occupied or not. So, using physical force to defend your car is legal in Arizona.
BTW, using a baseball bat would be considered using deadly force (a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument) and you'd be rung up for agg assault.
And exactly how would you know about the laws of Arizona Dune, what are you some kind of lawyer:aok
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Try make long story short..
1989 at night/,early morning , S. calif. house near 2 freeways. period of 1 year many stolen in neighborhood.....police and city good on self defence...neighboring city is not. Bedroom above our garage. car in driveway..2 mex. try steal 1986 monte carlo ss..1 lookout,1in car, broke lock etc..retrieved 1911 45 auto cocked it at window,noise scared them.705 dollars damage.Police said since 2 against 1 can use more force. said to kill got to be in or at house,better if in.so so if not. Can use weapon to detain. if attacked while detaining can use deadly force, unless much smaller than you. 3 months later same thing happens with same damage.
police give direct number if happen again. 2 months later same thing again police almost got them.[ 3 times 705 yuck]
6 weeks later thunder storm,wife and I had blinds open to see lighting. Wife cold got up to shut window,raining hard,see shadow in lighting, scared heel out of me. Fell back on bed, told wife,she asked if they after car, I said, in this rain? She gave me that look, so I looked .Darn ,1 in car , 1 look out, 1 in get a way car near end of block. Really upset this time, made wife crawl out door to hall and little boys room.
Grabed 45 ,looked to see if more than 3, found visual on 3 cocked 45, look out ran,same time car start, aimed 5 feet behind runner and fired,hit about 7 feet behind ,only tried to scare him.
Car down street took off, because of rain it hit fence,then took off again. My car, because of rain ,spining tires.I aimed window at drivers side knew he was there, couldnt kill or hurt for car, my car now moving back so aimed at top of radiator fired. Car hit curb backing out,he didnt back out to well.Car moving across window now, window is 8ftby 4ft 6 in. xox. Any way aimed at back tire, part of brain said fire ,other part said if I missed could go in to house across the street. Didnt fire they got car...
All this, from time of first fire ,until car gone took maybe 2 min at most ,seemed like life time. Old forgotten feeling came,dizzyness, bad nausa, shaking etc. The rest of story more interesting but wont say unless asked.
One good thing, no stolen cars for 4 years in neighborhood,and I got free dinner lol.
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OK, I'll ask. Whats the rest of the story and how did you get a free dinner out of it?
btw, If I arm myself I intend to hit not scare.
Near here, within 40 miles anyway. A guy catches a fella peaking in the window at his little sister undressing. She's like 11 or 12. Guy gets someone in the house to call police, grabs baseball bat and attacks the peeper. They fight, cops show up and grab the peeper. Guy whacks peeper in the head with the bat and kills him deader than a frickin doornail. No charges filed...that I've heard of. Toe tag filed out, justice served. Aint it great!
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Ya do what I did.
You beat the crap outa him. Then Tell the cops while you were chasing him, he tripped and fell down and hit his face..
Several times.
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Originally posted by RTStuka
And exactly how would you know about the laws of Arizona Dune, what are you some kind of lawyer:aok
Hey man, don't you DARE call my friend Dune a blood sucking leach! Dune isn't no stinkin' attorney... Dune is an... Electrician! Yeah, that's it! Dune is an electrician!
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Airhead, it's time I come clean about what I do.
I play the piano at Pancho's Happy Bottom Riding Club and potatohouse.
There, I feel better. Now I just have to figure out how to break it to mom.
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Originally posted by SunKing
Would I be justified in assaulting someone caught in the act of breaking into and attempting to steal me car?
My karate teacher walked up on two guys breaking into his Volkswagen way way back. One of the car breakers came at him with a tire iron, to which teacher stepped back and did a rising block, breaking the assailant's arm.
Then, he apologized and drove the guy to the hospital to get his arm fixed.
Les
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Originally posted by Dune
Airhead, it's time I come clean about what I do.
I play the piano at Pancho's Happy Bottom Riding Club and potatohouse.
There, I feel better. Now I just have to figure out how to break it to mom.
Tell her you're an attorney- then, when she's totally devistated, tell her you were only kidding and you're really a piano player in a potatohouse. I'm sure she'll be relieved.
:aok
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>>Would I be justified in assaulting someone caught in the act of breaking into and attempting to steal me car?
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As others have probably mentioned - depends on the state. I think one guy got off in Texas for killing a repo man. Before anyone cheers, the guy was just doing his job and left a wife and kids behind.
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Lizard3........answer..
I know I could kill only to protect family or someone else.
Reported to police in morning.Police said...They finally got it heh,I said yes, he said 1 other taken that night also. Police said car most likely in mexcio. Said wait 24 hrs then call them. Of course, I did not tell them all that happened. Called them next day, they said it was found in that other city I mentioned . They gave me address to other city impound,told me go pay impound fee,pick up car...now fun part.
I had left my wallet in car that night. We went to impound, paid ,and went to car. I wanted to see how close I came to hitting the top of the raditor.Wife worried about car.I put pencil in hole in hood. I missed by 1 and 1/4 inches. lol not bad hitting black moving car on storming night . Went back to office to get key for car after processing paper work. Guy said I couldnt have car.I said why heres the paper work. He said other city had just put hold on car. Went back home, 4 messages on machine. 1 from my citys police and 3 from a sargent of other citys police.
I called my city police but the officer wasnt in. Was going to call other city police, but decided to call sargent instead. It was a radio phone in his car? Any way sargent told me he was 2 citys away, he had my wallet and asked if it was the right address on lic. I said yes , he said he would be at my house in 2 hrs to return it, I thought what a nice guy but he doesnt have to go out of his way like that. So being a nice guy I told him he didnt have to do that, I would go down to the police station and pick it up.He said no I will bring it by, i am thinking gee he doesnt have to do that. Again I told him he didnt have to go out of his way. Well he got mad talked to me in that way you know? So I said yes sir, hung up and told my wife what happened. She said I should call our police station back.
So I did ,the guy was a sargent also, told him my name and he said he was glad I called. He ask me If anything out of the ordinary happen when the car was stolen. I said like what,he said dont !@#$ with me I dont have time, I told him. He said ok I thought as much and ask me if anyother police had called me , I said yes and told him the sargents name. H e said ok stay there for him and dont go anywhere then hung up.
Talked to my wife about it ,told her it had to be about the shooting , she asked If I was in trouble . I said well what else could it be ,You know how its getting to be.
Sargent came ,gave me the wallet and asked If he could come in I said sure. First thing he said was, he was sorry for being so hard on me on the phone, but because of the type of phone it was, lots of different people could hear what he said.
Seems there was a LT. in his station that had put hold on car.This LT had called my police station and wanted them to arrest me, and hold me untill they could send some one to pick me up. He said there was a bullet hole in hood of car, and from position it seemed I had to be the one to fire it. Our sargent said to wait please and got his LT. Any way the LT would not agree to do it because the car was found in the other city, so my city had nothing to do with it. That is when the hold was put on my car.
The sargent then called some one on my phone,couldnt hear what was said. Then he called the impound and talked to the head guy.They started a little argument and I only heard one side. The sargent said I would be coming down to pick up car. he then said ..I know LT so and so has a hold on it and is to be told when I showed up. Then he said in that voice again....You know that LT so and so has no control over this part of department, that Capt. so and so is in command. You know I am second in command and I hereby order you to release the car. then he said I will take care of it.
He gave me my wallet , said dont leave wallet in car,ask if I would tell him what happened. I told him everything including about the pencil....as he was going to the door he said good shot I am glad you did no more than I did. On the porch I said sargent so and so whats going on....He turned around and look at me and said I will only tell you this...A number of our older ranks have retired and the new ones are much more liberal.They are as interested in prosecuting what many of us believe to be law abiding citizens as the criminal. Then he said to stay out of so and so city 4 about a month after I pick up my car.and I had to pick it up now.
When I picked up my car the head guy at the impound did the paper work instead of the lady at the at the counter.
Still have pictures of hood in my wharehouse some where. about 5 years later, we move closer to the beach ,I had given the car to my son of course he destoryed it. It was stolen from him in front of our new house . it was found but totally striped even a fender was gone lol.
The christmas after the incident 3 of my neighbors brought us a honey baked ham and goodies. We said why you all doing this ,the neighbor next to us said they were going away after christmas for a week and wanted to know i fi would guard their house, we just laughed.
It was 4 years before another car in our neighborhood was stolen......sorry for the lenth but you asked.
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I live in texas and had that happen once. This guy was trying to steal my car when I snuck up behind him and knocked him out cold with a chunck of a 2X4. I dident get arrested but the guy did.
He tried to press charges for some crap abought using to mutch force but the judge dissmissed it. The guy got 1 year in prison.
I guess it's were you live.