Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: anonymous on August 06, 2004, 02:05:31 PM
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theyve got some of his fitreps available on internet. also theres very good writeup about fitreps for all you landlubbers smart enough to avoid usn at all costs. http://www.swiftvets.com/staticpages/index.php?page=Fitreps
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Originally posted by anonymous
theyve got some of his fitreps available on internet. also theres very good writeup about fitreps for all you landlubbers smart enough to avoid usn at all costs. http://www.swiftvets.com/staticpages/index.php?page=Fitreps
Disaster? Try from excellent to outstanding FITREPs.
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Fitness_Reports.pdf
Here they are as linked from the website you referenced. What am I missing?
h
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read the description on how fitreps work. it can be confusing to someone who is used to brevity and logic. :)
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its not use.....these swiftboat guys look like they've done there research and got their watermelon together but the librals will allways have their heads in the sand when it comes to beating Bush.
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Originally posted by anonymous
read the description on how fitreps work. it can be confusing to someone who is used to brevity and logic. :)
I've read bunches of FITREPs in my (ex) job at CINCLANT (We were designing a DBM forms system to automate the FITREP filings). The dings etc that the website is reporting (especially that promotion bs) are important only if the Navy is to be a career for the officer in question. I would rely much more heavily on the narrative from the interviewing CO on a non-career officer--where I can find little if any indication that he is the "disaster" of which you speak.
Again, if you can point specifically to what you are referring I would be interested.
h
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In that time, ratings were not restricted, IE: everyone in a squadron could be rated at the highest level in all categories and overall.
In the mid '70's that was changed; they set percentages for each group to be rated. Only so many % could be the top, so many % the next block down etc.
However, at Kerry's time there was no restriction. Thus, if you were a true "fastburner" you had a "firewalled" OER or FitRep. That means EVERY block was rated at the highest level and you also needed some certain "codewords" in the written comments by your evaluators. For example "promote at the earliest opportunity" was a necessary comment for a true "fastburner".
So, when you look at Kerry's reports and see blocks that are NOT all the way to the left, you are basically looking at the "kiss of death" when it goes to the promotion board. Same with his written comments; they lack the necessary "zing" to get promoted.
From the ones I looked at, you're looking at average FitReps.
Before you ask, one of my "additional duties" in my USAF squadron was reviewing OER's before final submission and "pumping up" the ones that the CO felt deserved promotion.
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Originally posted by Horn
I've read bunches of FITREPs in my (ex) job at CINCLANT (We were designing a DBM forms system to automate the FITREP filings). The dings etc that the website is reporting (especially that promotion bs) are important only if the Navy is to be a career for the officer in question. I would rely much more heavily on the narrative from the interviewing CO on a non-career officer--where I can find little if any indication that he is the "disaster" of which you speak.
Again, if you can point specifically to what you are referring I would be interested.
h
ok then you speaketh the language. its the analysis of the swiftboat guys i was talking about. "Just like Hibbard, Elliott “red flags” Kerry in conduct by downgrading him significantly in judgment and personal behavior." cant be a good sign can it?
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The page lay out the specific dings and on which reports. It goes without saying, Horn, that the FITREP is only useful for career officers, but if you have knowledge of how they are used(and I don't, other than through reading, but everything I have ever read out FITREPS agrees with what the website says), it gives a good indication of the person himself.
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Fitreps and evals in the Navy are NOT a clear picture of how somebody is. They have always been too afraid to say anything bad about anyone on an eval. So even cheesebags come out looking good most of the time. I've been in the Navy now 11 years and written many evals. I try to write them as I feel a person is and they get changed. As far as officers fitreps go no Commanding Officer would write anything damaging to someones career unless they had commited a crime and it was a post punishment fitrep.
Therefore those fitreps that are posted are meaningless. Even though I don't like Kerry it won't be based on those.
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I've worked a little w/ fitreps in my time. They havnt changed much since then but its correct....if its not all OUTSTANDING than it's considered a ding. That has allways been common knowlege
A most capable officer with a high degree of maturity beyond his age. ENS Kerry has brought his ship's appearence and Hull mait. to a high level in a short time
CRAP! that to ME sounds like filler fluff
He is a polished diplomat at ease in distinguished company and shows great promise for future assignment as an aide or foreign diplomatic post
That to ME translates in....this guy is an bellybutton kisser....allthough he doesnt screw up he is almost usless in his job and in combat. His troops make him look good, get him out of my command.
In all fairness it does say to promote him ahead of peers to LTjg.
but he next one is JUST recommend for promotion with a few remarks about verbal and written skills/good appearence.
BUT look at PDF page 8 Block 20 on leadership. That's what we used to call scattershot cause his marks are all over the page.
Half the report is Non observed wich isnt a bad thing. The others arent all that bad.
THESE ARE JUST MY OPINIONS THOUGH if I was getting a new guy and wanted to size him up by his fitrep.
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Originally posted by Coolridr
Fitreps and evals in the Navy are NOT a clear picture of how somebody is. They have always been too afraid to say anything bad about anyone on an eval. So even cheesebags come out looking good most of the time. I've been in the Navy now 11 years and written many evals. I try to write them as I feel a person is and they get changed. As far as officers fitreps go no Commanding Officer would write anything damaging to someones career unless they had commited a crime and it was a post punishment fitrep.
Therefore those fitreps that are posted are meaningless. Even though I don't like Kerry it won't be based on those.
my experience is different. i have roasted some guys writing evals and they deserved it and it stuck. ive also seen results of officer fitreps that were effectively career ending even if no crime commited. i think community command location and situation can vary results and whats acceptable.
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Well I am not in the Military and never have been, but my impression when I read them a couple of three months ago was that he was some one with a friend high up and some one that was known to be a ticket-puncher, so they passed him through with that in mind.
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Nice try. His CO is now recanting the accusations in public.
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Originally posted by rpm371
Nice try. His CO is now recanting the accusations in public.
Really what is he saying?
PDF pg 19 block 20 is not all that flattering as well.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Really what is he saying?
PDF pg 19 block 20 is not all that flattering as well.
BOSTON (Reuters) - John Kerry's commanding officer in Vietnam has backed away from attacks on the Democratic presidential candidate, saying he made a mistake in accusing the U.S. senator of having lied about his wartime record.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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ELECTION 2004
Vet denies retraction
of Kerry war criticism
Boston Globe story saying he backed off 'extremely inaccurate', 'highly misleading'
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Posted: August 6, 2004
2:16 p.m. Eastern
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com
A Vietnam veteran who appears in a television ad critical of Sen. John Kerry says a Boston Globe article asserting he retracted his criticism of the presidential candidate's war service is "extremely inaccurate" and "highly misleading."
In a statement, Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth says "Captain Elliott reaffirms his affidavit in support of that advertisement, and he reaffirms his request that the ad be played."
The Globe story by Michael Kranish said Elliott, in an interview yesterday, backed off one of the key contentions of a book to be released next week by the veterans group, "Unfit for Command."
Elliott, according to Kranish, said he had made a "terrible mistake" in signing an affidavit that suggests Kerry did not deserve the Silver Star.
But the veterans group says the article is "particularly surprising given page 102 of Mr. Kranish's own book quoting John Kerry as acknowledging that he killed a single, wounded, fleeing Viet Cong soldier whom he was afraid would turn around."
Kranish, who is covering the Kerry campaign, wrote the foreword to the official Kerry-Edwards campaign book and is listed as the lead author, the Drudge Report noted today.
Kranish declined to speak on the record with WorldNetDaily but said he would forward a statement from the Globe.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Really what is he saying?
PDF pg 19 block 20 is not all that flattering as well.
rpm0 cant read. it deals with kerrys ss. he signed affidavit but if you actually read report i wouldnt take it as co saying he lied. its super lefty version of "lied". like bush going on intel and numerous opinion of other nations leaders and when that wasnt spot on bush "lied".
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Originally posted by Toad
So, when you look at Kerry's reports and see blocks that are NOT all the way to the left, you are basically looking at the "kiss of death" when it goes to the promotion board. Same with his written comments; they lack the necessary "zing" to get promoted.
From the ones I looked at, you're looking at average FitReps.
Agreed. Again, however, that would only have import if the officer was on track to stay in the Navy as a career. Kerry wasn't. His service appears to be a box to be checked on his way up the recognition ladder and insofar as it goes, he did an admirable job at it--even his CO Elliot--who now is condemning him-- gave Kerry a favorable report w/ an outstanding narrative.
I'm just disagreeing that the "disaster" assessment is even close to accurate and I wonder why it is characterized as such.
...and Lizerd the "higher up" theory generally only works (in FITREPs) with the guy one step up from one's immediate boss in my experience.
h
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I agree with that Horn, but when the young officer is the pet of JFK (the REAL JFK), then it will follow him all the way.
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Originally posted by Lizking
I agree with that Horn, but when the young officer is the pet of JFK (the REAL JFK), then it will follow him all the way.
No question--and tho I had not heard that (he was a bud of JFK)--someone would be keeping and eye on him--my specific point was that while the "eye" might help with favorable postings and transfers, the FITREPs are more day to day docs and not as much subject to outside influence (like outside his immediate command).
h
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Por que?
-SW
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Originally posted by anonymous
is anyone same at thirty compared to twenty?
(Link (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126000&pagenumber=2)
Anonymous using double standards ? Oh well... :aok
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Originally posted by Staga
(Link (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126000&pagenumber=2)
Anonymous using double standards ? Oh well... :aok
your comment shows you have no concept of the responsibilites involved in combat leadership. you manage to sound clever tho.
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seawulf quit posting while drunk or high.
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Por que?
-SW
how about shortening that sig hero?
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Originally posted by Horn
Again, however, that would only have import if the officer was on track to stay in the Navy as a career. Kerry wasn't.
h
Disagree. He's using his "leadership" in the USN to support his viability to run the country.
Upon examination, his FitReps are hardly the "fastburner, walks on water at temperatures above 32F" type. So I think it shows you how the Navy valued his "leadership skills". They were not marking him for "high command" in those FitReps.
Now, you can say he wasn't really trying because he had no intention of a career. Well, wasn't really trying at a job you volunteered to do to the best of your ability says something too. I don't view that favorably either.
Overall though, my perception of the military issue is that it's overblown. They both served honorably IMO. Neither can justify his capability for the Presidency based on their military careers IMO.
You want to make the case your military career makes you "the man" for the Oval Office? Rack up a career like Ike's. I listen then. These two are a couple of Junior Officers for pity's sake.
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I have experience in these kinds of evaluations as well. The Army Officer Evaluation system is similar although it has changed somewhat since the 60's.
Some things are telling. I am assuming the Navy works on the 'What is not said principle' like the Army does.
His Fitness Report from March to July of 68.
It says recommended for promotion. In the Army there are basically four ways to say things. Promote Now, Promote ahead of Peers, Promote, and Do not promote. There are some variations on this but in general these things run in decending order. A promote comment, seen in that report, is a somewhat telling statement saying that although the officer isn't bad, he didn't do anything particularly outstanding to warrent promotion ahead of his peers. It could also mean that personally he didn't get along with his CO.
His second combat evaluation is telling. This is a very positive evaluation. Whether you like the guy or not (and I don't) this evaluation shows a high speed officer IMHO. I have written a couple of OERs and have had about a dozen in my career and I can't think of one better than this.
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I think easymo has it right. He planned his whole run at the presidency around his peace activism. And he had it won, up until September 12, 2001. Faced with the only alternative, he was forced to use it, and it is biting him in the ass.
Regardless, he served, as did Bush, and that is all that should have ever been said about it.