Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: MrLars on June 11, 2001, 10:06:00 AM
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...that switched to Bishops without checking out the numbers before doing so....
FYYFF :D
[ 06-13-2001: Message edited by: MrLars ]
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I love you too. Gimme a hug buddy!
(http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/love/ylinlove.gif)
-SW
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FYI: I scribbled down some numbers for the last 6 weeks..when I logged in, at various times (Either 5am-7am PST or 4pm-7pm PST) I would write down the numbers of each country when I logged in, and logged out.
For the month of May thru this week of june, the avg. was about this:
59 bishop
45 Rook
38 Knits
One afternoon it was an incredible 105 bish, 45 rooks, 35 knits.
for 27 of 31 days in May, Bish had numbers.
So far, for 8 of 10 days in June, bish have had numbers.
Not just a 'Our turn in the bucket'...since the big influx of AW fans, its become an apparent problem, resulting in mass exits of folks logging in disgust, some even quitting.
For 6 weeks now.
Something should be done?
I know Bish will disagree.
Path of least resistance is inherent in most human beings.
[ 06-11-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]
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I'm Bish, thru thick and thin and will remain so. I must say that the last four weeks has been the first in about ten months that Bishops have had great numbers... and actually winning. The last two weeks have seen my first (plus 2nd, and 3rd) map reset wins.... Yes, I'd experienced none at all before this in 17 months of playing! :) So no, I'm not complaining... I'm happy that Bish aren't gangbanged for a change (in my timezone anyway).
Regards
Nexx
PS Puts flakjacket, helmet, steel toecap boots on.... oven gloves.... packs elastaplasts...
[ 06-11-2001: Message edited by: Replicant ]
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Originally posted by Replicant:
I'm Bish, thru thick and thin and will remain so. [ 06-11-2001: Message edited by: Replicant ]
The message was directed to the squads that rotate, the squads and others that fly Bish EVERY TOD aren't included in my FYYFF.
To the squads that changed to Bish to gain perks from the resets caused by the lopsided numbers, I fart in your general direction..loosers!
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Originally posted by MrLars:
loosers!
Spelled: Losers.
We didn't rotate for some perk points, we've been doing this since.. hmmm Tour 7?
-SW
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Originally posted by SWulfe:
Spelled: Losers.
We didn't rotate for some perk points, we've been doing this since.. hmmm Tour 7?
-SW
Thanks teach!
BTW...you say you rotated to Bish this TOD? Did you do so without checking to see if arena balance would be effected? If you did check it out, then why did you rotate to the country that had the numbers?
The MOL CO, Dago, decided to give this TOD 3-4 days before we decided to rotate, good thing since Bish was up for this tour...so we rotated to Night cause of the numbers. MAYBE some of the other squad CO's would be so kind as to do something similar next time they decide to rotate. I find it disturbing that some of AH's most honerable squads switched to Bish this TOD. In my book, they are either ignorant of the lack of balance in the MA, OR, they are nothing but score hos out for some easy pickins. Either way, I have absolutly no kind words to say to them...but rather, FYYFF!
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He spelled it with a NOO YAWK accent. Which gives the adjective a worse connotation!!
And I agree with him. <mubles..emails...coordinated switches...seen this before...Bz....>
-Westy
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MrLars,
I can't speak for other squads, but can speak for ours. We rotate at the beginning of the tour. Its that simple.
There is no "checking to see who has numbers" because that doesn't concern us either way. We are not discriminating in our decision and would prefer to keep it that way.
We've received many perk points for resets, and have been down to two bases before. We don't leave the country we are flying for under any circumstance except a new month.
While we've been doing this, I've seen numerous squads that change countries to either make the numbers more fair, or to get on the winning side. Either way, the numbers usually just skew in a different direction.
So.. until some kind of schedule is developed, we will continue on as we have. AKCurly has already expressed intrest in a little more coordination, but it doesn't seem that many squads are willing to do the same. We'll stay fixed until that happens.
Once that does happen, you'll get to experience the shear joy that is realizing that people are going to change sides regardless. Some enjoy the war... some only enjoy winning.
AKDejaVu
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First of all, I'm not the CO.
Second of all, whether you have any kind words to say to me or not matters nothing to me. You could call me a rat fink bastard that smells of alderberries, and it won't effect me.
Third of all, I did my two cents trying to coordinate the rotation with Dago. Dig up his thread and I posted information to it, I heard nothing more on it.
Fourth of all, I have no idea what the hell FYYFF or whatever it was means. Care to elaborate?
-SW
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<S!> To all the squads that don't rotate! <BELCH!>
SOB
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Originally posted by SOB:
<BELCH!>
Dude... why does it smell of wine coolers in here all of a sudden??????
-SW
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Originally posted by SWulfe:
First of all, I'm not the CO.
Third of all, I did my two cents trying to coordinate the rotation with Dago. Dig up his thread and I posted information to it, I heard nothing more on it.
Fourth of all, I have no idea what the hell FYYFF or whatever it was means. Care to elaborate?
-SW
So atleast you did give some effort...but you landed in the country who had the numbers anyway, huh. Maybe a little more effort would be good next TOD, that is IF you want to try and help balance the MA.
I'm afraid of what will happen if we, the players, don't do something about this. I certanly don't want HTC to spend time away from other developement to help solve this problem and give us some balancing routine that will force players to one country or the other...do you?
BTW, the YY's mean you, you, you can figure the rest out I belive <g>
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Originally posted by SWulfe:
Dude... why does it smell of wine coolers in here all of a sudden??????
-SW
I thought it was Shirly Temples I smelled <g>
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naaa...it's fruity pebbles and milk.
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SOB... you are in the wrong thread. The FDPs belong in the "Sit and Spin" thread... not the "Rotating Tours" thread.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
I know Bish will disagree.
[ 06-11-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]
I would not disagree. I want sides to be more even, and I like competition. I fly bishops all my AH time except few very short switches due to ballance reason, but if not my squad I would switch till the numbers back.
I can agree that I do not remember nothing alike. Almost all the time bishops has the numbers. Sometime we outnumber both sides together. It happened before with every side, but it continues for bishops it continue for a long time now.
Problem with newbies. After seeing one side winning couple of reset they switch to this side, which disbalance game even more.
I think that CO's of switching squads shall find a way to communicate with each other and to agree who and where switch in the start of tour. This can be EXTREMELY good way to return balance of the game.
Just hope someone (may be you Rip) will take this burden to comunicate other squad CO's and agree some working strategy which will ballance the game.
Fariz
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Originally posted by MrLars:
The message was directed to the squads that rotate, the squads and others that fly Bish EVERY TOD aren't included in my FYYFF.
In fact we rotate bish each turn :)
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Personaly I find this post and other "game balancing" posts kind of silly. But that is my opinion. When my squad decided to go Bishop they were the continual underdog at the time and Rooks and Knights always had the numbers. We flew for the Rooks for the same reason. I don't think we are going to do a nightly switch to accomodate whiners.
We switch countries on occasion, not any particular time frame, because we like to fly with different people. Some in my squad don't want to fly Knights simply because most of the Luftwobble squads fly Knights exclusively and we like to tangle with the Lufwobbles.
Calling squads names is childish. It is the same kind of post you see every time one of the countries gets down in numbers and all the countries are the underdog at one time or the other.
If it bothers you so much to be on the low numbered side then switch countries. It's not like it means anything to be loyal to a chess piece. I owe my allegeance to one country, USA. Game countries don't mean squat.
(http://home.att.net/~lmluper/markatsig.jpg) (http://www.jump.net/~cs3)
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Well, if I was a bishop, I would find it hard to get good kills. I mean, if you are out-numbering your cons 2 to 1 - that means there are 50% less targets to engage.
What fun is it if you're not constantly fighting uneven battles?
Besides, it means more bish planes for me to shoot down :D
(http://www.telusplanet.net/public/brandor/images/412.gif)
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Vruth: 1st Lt
412th Braunco Mustangs
[ 06-11-2001: Message edited by: Vruth ]
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Well, if I was a bishop, I would find it hard to get good kills. I mean, if you are out-numbering your cons 2 to 1 - that means there are 50% less targets to engage.
Its not like that. Usually.. 80% of the bish are at one field trying desperately to protect that incoming goon <unsuccessfully> for 3 hours... against 3 defenders. Strange thing is... that strategy isn't really limited to bish.
AKDejaVu
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i don't see why the AK's seem to be the only squad defending the idea of squad rotation nor do i understand why the AK's seem to think the thread was directed specificly towards them but oh well
In my opinion if your squad has any balls and the decency of fair play ideals then when they rotate to a different country and see an daily average of 90 players on their side most of the time (and have any respect for themselves) they sould jump to the next country in there rotation to try to even out the playing field and they can always go back to that country the next TOD.
But for those who's squads don't change countries every month or 2 it is really lame to switch to a country and stay there when you know that the rest are so badly out numbered.
just my opinion and i could be wrong,
but i'm not and i am not "whinning" cause i no longer am in the game and no longer have to put up with such dweebery nor do i have to lower miself TO such dweebery out of frustration ;)
therefor anyone who disagrees with me or thinks i am whining can all just...
Bend over and get ready to have your tulips riped wide open cause when i come back from my break i'm going to be filling you tulips with 20mm rounds anyways :eek: (or 50cal's depending on what i decide to fly for the month when i come back)
Adios all :p
Rudedawg
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Numbers the bish may have... large numbers of vetted pilots they don't have. I've seen 6-10 skilled knits hold off 40 bish fer hours.. and even grab some bish fields in the process.
Perception of this issue is a tuff one.. number counts and pilot quality varies over several timezones.
While I myself don't rotate, I do enjoy seeing the various squads cycle thru.. good ta fly with 'em; and in some cases it's downright entertaining to watch! (e.g. the AK's trying to take fields when surrounded by newbies. :))
Having a percieved advantage is not all that often the same as actually having one.
Hang
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Hm, well I had the honour of flying with the Finnish LLv34 guys yesterday (great bunch of guys). Even though I understood nothing of the tainkaneekoo luuukinaiten perkele language, the occasional English word of phrase helped me out :)
We were trying to defend a38.
Not even with 5-6 of these guys and me were we succesful. The numbers were jsut too uneven. I saw these guys take down 2:1 or 3:1 in K/D, and still the base was lost. As was 29 and 30.
As history has shown, sheer brute numbers beat experience if the number advantage is high enough.
And I dunno. I'd call the AK's pretty experienced. Had fun duelling AKHog with my M16, til he snook up on me (with me only having 30 runds left) and took revenge by firmly planting a couple of rockets on my m16 :).
All rotating squads are wussies though ;)
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i think it would be great to assighn a sqads to a country, if ur in sqadron ur in 1 country that will balance the arena (or not).
308 th also rotate, but we stay a longer time in eatch country
[ 06-12-2001: Message edited by: Asmodan PL ]
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RudeDawg... I didn't defend, I explained.
I make no excuses for what we do because I don't feel there is anything wrong with it. We are not always on the country with numbers and we stay with the county regardless.
Rotation is not intended to even things out. Its intended to get a chance to fly with everyone. We like doing it.
If you are so concerned with this, then get a squad together and designate yourselves as the "even the numbers" squad. You can jump from country to country always fighting for the underdog. At that time, you can come here and citicize others for not doing it. Until then, you might as well shut up. Oh.. that's right.. you'd have to get an account.
AKDejaVu
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Well, there's definitely one thing consistent with playing games.. whether it's on a playstation, Nintendo64, Arcade Machine, PC or Mac....
And that's the whining when things don't go your way.
Even if the game was 100% accurate in the Flight Model, a very detailed damage model, the best eye candy, the most amazing strategy model, a furball island and the teams were all exactly the same size numbers wise.... you would still find something to squeak about.
It's a game, fair play is about as real as unicorns, it almost never exists.. in any game.
Check out WB's WW2Arena... Either the axis outnumber the allies or vice versa...
"Fair play" is simply an excuse for losing... "You weren't playing fair..."
What would you say if you kicked their ass?
"You weren't play fair..." I don't think so... it would be "I kicked your ass, and you still had things over me!!!"
Does it matter in the end, not really... there's always something that the same people will find to complain about.
Funny thing is though, if there's no one complaining.. chances are there's no one playing the same game with you!
-SW
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Originally posted by Mark Luper:
When my squad decided to go Bishop they were the continual underdog at the time and Rooks and Knights always had the numbers. We flew for the Rooks for the same reason. I don't think we are going to do a nightly switch to accomodate whiners.
[/b]
Mark for many months, each country had 'their turn in the bucket'...and it would ebb and flow pretty consistently..now, with the influx of AW and FA recently, we're seeing them all join the same country (I know for a fact that correspondence between no fewer than 3 AW squads are doing this on purpose). Now, its come down to 2 countries in the bucket, for 6 weeks now. Thats a record.
We switch countries on occasion, not any particular time frame, because we like to fly with different people. Some in my squad don't want to fly Knights simply because most of the Luftwobble squads fly Knights exclusively and we like to tangle with the Lufwobbles.
[/b]
My problem isn't so much with squad rotations as it is with making it more difficult for a country to capture fields in the wee hours of the U.S. mornings, where a handful of Bish suck up real estate, by the time heavy numbers come on, the numerous bish just have to hold what they have, and since they have the numbers, they go offensive once again, thus the 6 weeks of constant bish resets.
It is the same kind of post you see every time one of the countries gets down in numbers and all the countries are the underdog at one time or the other.
[/b]
No, in this case, its a record for the length that one country has been dominant. No fewer than 10 people I know have quit rather than to be a 'country jumper'..ie, someone that joins the country thats winning all the time, they'd rather leave the game than be labeled a 'winitall'.
If it bothers you so much to be on the low numbered side then switch countries. It's not like it means anything to be loyal to a chess piece. I owe my allegeance to one country, USA. Game countries don't mean squat.
[/b]
We did this with JG2, broke us up, did this with VF-101 in WB's lost some squaddies, ask Ranger Bob about country rotations...he had his squads broke up in other sims due to country rotations. For some squads it works, for others, it will not work. Some are just more alligent than others.
What I'd like to see is some sort of work done by HTC that directs new players to low numbered sides, however, they can switch countries once they're online, so what would be better is having some sort of consolation for the side with fewer numbers, ie Perk planes free, or dare I say, since the winning country is far deep into enemy territory, limited supplies at the front line fields? Maybe double points for the underdog once under, say 5 fields?
I think there is an answer to the problem out there other than country rotations...it does need to be addressed, hell I got 2 squads of a total of 22 guys that are sick of it, and though they love AH, they're ready to quit, Snap Shots and Check six is the only reason they're still here....Something needs to be done...most guys in Knightland don't mind being in the bucket for a month, but its now apparent that the AW influx is having an abnormal effect on the main arena numbers. Something should be done so that one day when YOUR in the bucket for 6+ weeks, you'll have some sort of relief...
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Originally posted by Replicant:
The last two weeks have seen my first (plus 2nd, and 3rd) map reset wins.... Yes, I'd experienced none at all before this in 17 months of playing! :)
ditto except I've not seen the 2nd and 3rd reset ...
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Originally posted by straffo:
ditto except I've not seen the 2nd and 3rd reset ...
Guys, you bish have gotten resets prior to this last 6 weeks, you know thats B.S.
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"...correspondence between no fewer than 3 AW squads are doing this on purpose"
IMO this is fine. I think those who do not like this (ME for instance) should rally together with thier squads, in another country, to hand out a spanking. And do this for a few tours.
-Westy
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
[QB][/b]
Mark for many months, each country had 'their turn in the bucket'...and it would ebb and flow pretty consistently..now, with the influx of AW and FA recently, we're seeing them all join the same country (I know for a fact that correspondence between no fewer than 3 AW squads are doing this on purpose). Now, its come down to 2 countries in the bucket, for 6 weeks now. Thats a record.
QB]
I've caught wind of this, that is why I started this thread. In the past it hasn't been as loopsided as the last 6-7 weeks. The MOL have tried to help even out the numbers by not joining the country that has the obvious advantage, but we don't have enough numbers to really make a difference without the cooperation of some of the other squads, and that just isn't happening.
The MA land grab game for some is what AH is all about, others see the MA as practice for the special events. The frustration, because of the lopsided numbers, some feel is because, while having the short end of the stick, their gameplay is relegated to base defence for most of the players. Although it is possible to mount an assult on a base under these circumstances, the resulting loss of territory because of the lack of numbers causes some people to log in frustration. We don't need to have players doing that because, in the long run it is bad for AH and it's reputation.
So, what's it gonna be? Are we going to try to even out the numbers a bit so that the game is more enjoyable for the majority of the players, or are we going to let the lopsided numbers drive people away and create some bad juju for AH?
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MrLars, see a re-post of suggestions from users in the past, in the GAMEPLAY forum I posted this morning..HTC is aware of it.
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Am I the only guy who breathes a sigh of relief when squads rotate out of my country?
:)
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No.
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Originally posted by hblair:
Am I the only guy who breathes a sigh of relief when squads rotate out of my country?
I feel the exact same way when I leave the current country I'm flying.
You wanna know the first thing that comes into my mind when I switch to the next country?
:)
-SW
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air`s been bishes since the early days and we decided to stay there. Anyway it has been days that i have got the choises to either use a chainsaw and trying to cut my neck away, or trying to lift off from one of the last single base and not choose to change countries in the last minutes like some does to get some lousy earned perkys :D
airguard
[ 06-12-2001: Message edited by: air_guard ]
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For what its worth…
I have twice as many kills against Bishop’s as I do for the Rooks as they also have twice as many kills on me as the Rooks do. I try and go where the battle is and it seems to be bishop so far.
For all you batiges that were at A34 last night and were wondering where the spontaneous combustion problems were coming from. Knights had a death ray installed by S.P.E.C.T.R. and we were blasting you from the hillside. Or it could have just been the cannons from my LA7 :D
Zippatuh
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Geez....maybe the knits should grow a spine or something. This is the worst bout of whining I have ever seen in my life. I mean, really, you got all those superior LuftWhiner squads over there so you should not have any problems being outnumbered, right? ;)
The only problem I have with the rotating is when the rotaters show up in Bishland and start infesting our country channel with thier whining.....if yer gonna do that, do it in Knitland.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
MrLars, see a re-post of suggestions from users in the past, in the GAMEPLAY forum I posted this morning..HTC is aware of it.
Yeah, I've read it. I was hopeing that the players would do something about it rather than having HTC spend their resources on something that could be fixed by us though :(
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Has the customer base ever solved any lopsided or game play issue anomolies? :D(Hint: answer is NO, but, we're damn good at exploiting anomolies!) ;)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Has the customer base ever solved any lopsided or game play issue anomolies? :D(Hint: answer is NO, but, we're damn good at exploiting anomolies!) ;)
LOL...you're right Rip. If this problem follows the trend then in the next patch or version there will be a change and it will come about just like the whole C-Hog debate caused the minimal perk on that bird. Problem fixed and on to new problems, that is the HTC way I belive :)
[ 06-12-2001: Message edited by: MrLars ]
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Originally posted by sling322:
[QB]Geez....maybe the knits should grow a spine or something. This is the worst bout of whining I have ever seen in my life. I mean, really, you got all those superior LuftWhiner squads over there so you should not have any problems being outnumbered, right? ;)QB]
The Knights have 15754 kills and have been killed 16172 times against the Bishops.
31926 total kills/deaths
The Knights have 10321 kills and have been killed 11678 times against the Rooks.
21999 total kills/deaths
The Bishops have 13765 kills and have been killed 14804 times against the Rooks.
28569 total kills/deaths
53925 total kills/deaths Bish/Rooks vs. Knights
-28569 total kills/deaths Bish vs. Rooks
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=25356
So basically the Bish/Rooks have been gangbanging the hell out of the Knights the whole tour.
Call it whining or whatever you like...it sucks to be on the toejamty end of the stick everytime you log into the MA.
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Originally posted by jihad:
So basically the Bish/Rooks have been gangbanging the hell out of the Knights the whole tour.
Call it whining or whatever you like...it sucks to be on the toejamty end of the stick everytime you log into the MA.
I could of sworn, a few weeks back Hblair said he was moving to the Knights because of this....
If you don't like the situation, WHY did you move to that country?
-SW
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
[/b]
Mark for many months, each country had 'their turn in the bucket'...and it would ebb and flow pretty consistently..now, with the influx of AW and FA recently, we're seeing them all join the same country (I know for a fact that correspondence between no fewer than 3 AW squads are doing this on purpose).
LOL! Those evil bastards! They should call themselves MAG-66. :p
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
[/b]
Something should be done so that one day when YOUR in the bucket for 6+ weeks, you'll have some sort of relief...
I must be one sick bastard, because this wouldn't bother me at all. Screw the relief, bring on the targets! I just hope the numbers get skewed the other way soon, so I don't have to read the squeaking.
SOB
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Originally posted by jihad:
The Knights have 15754 kills and have been killed 16172 times against the Bishops.
31926 total kills/deaths
The Knights have 10321 kills and have been killed 11678 times against the Rooks.
21999 total kills/deaths
The Bishops have 13765 kills and have been killed 14804 times against the Rooks.
28569 total kills/deaths
53925 total kills/deaths Bish/Rooks vs. Knights
-28569 total kills/deaths Bish vs. Rooks
--------
=25356
So basically the Bish/Rooks have been gangbanging the hell out of the Knights the whole tour.
Call it whining or whatever you like...it sucks to be on the toejamty end of the stick everytime you log into the MA.
ummm...what?!?
16,172 Kills of Knits by Bishops
13,765 Kills of Rooks by Bishops
------
2,407 More kills of Knits than Rooks by Bishops
14,804 Kills of Bishs by Rooks
11,678 Kills of Knits by Rooks
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3,126 More kills of Bish than Knits by Rooks.
So, ummm, Bish/Rook what? I must be missing something!
SOB
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The Knights have 15754 kills and have been killed 16172 times against the Bishops.
K/D = .974
The Knights have 10321 kills and have been killed 11678 times against the Rooks.
K/D = .884
So... you do better against the country with higher numbers? Is that what you were trying to say?
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by SOB:
So, ummm, Bish/Rook what? I must be missing something!
SOB
Yup, you missing the "whiner complex"...
;)
-SW
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One thing I cannot understan is why two smaller countries never seem to fight against the largest country. It is always one of the smaller countries that gets gangbanged by the other two.
One small country may actually help the largest to win. What is the logic in that??? ... just going for kills against the easiest targets... right...
Why do we try to pretend to have any strategic game in AH at all?
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Originally posted by BlauK:
One thing I cannot understan is why two smaller countries never seem to fight against the largest country. It is always one of the smaller countries that gets gangbanged by the other two.
One small country may actually help the largest to win. What is the logic in that??? ... just going for kills against the easiest targets... right...
Why do we try to pretend to have any strategic game in AH at all?
Its human nature to take the path of least resistence, you'll never change that...
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One thing I cannot understan is why two smaller countries never seem to fight against the largest country. It is always one of the smaller countries that gets gangbanged by the other two.
Wasn't like that last night while I was on. Not at all. Knits and Rooks were pretty much hitting Bish exclusively. At the time, numbers were about B:65, R:45, K:40.
AKDejaVu
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Also, I might add, my K/D ratio this tour and last have never been better, so, personally, I could care less about the gang bangs... but what I do care about is the mass log offs by folks being disgusted, folks canceling accounts... its pissing alot of folks off, so, its not about what you prefer, its more of a business decision for HTC.
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Mark said it well. The 56th FG rotates but not on any particular timeframe. We dont do it every tour, just when it comes up we vote on it and the majority gets it. I personally like flying against the knights because like others..I get my kicks flying against historically correct enemy's in my P-47. The knights have a regular smorgasbord of Luftweenies, good ones at that. However in recent days they are leaving AH. But that maybe the reason why the 56th FG hasnt done time in Knights. In the past the knights didnt need it either. Wasnt all that long ago that they had PLENTY of people. None of them was changing sides either. nullAs a matter of FACT.. the same squads that are on trial here for rotating are the same ones that that made attempts at side balancing. None of the Non-rotaters will break down and rotate for parity..OH NO..we cant do that! But they can certainly whine about it. Wasnt till recently that AH community saw the numbers like they are. Also keep in retrospect that we were very small, less than 8 for a long time. Wasn't till recently that we have grown to 18 members. So we didtn unbalance anything. I am not convinced that we would make a difference if we did go to knights now either.
ammo
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Ammo, everyones noticed numbers flucuate up and down for any one particular country since beta, usually extending for no longer than 1 tour (most cases, 2-3 days) Now its been 6+ weeks..its a problem, there are squads from AW organizing this on purpose, its sole purpose being that of winning it all , at all costs...so, you see, it really has nothing to do with country rotations as it does with a needed built in game play modifier to curb this type of behavior...(IMO)
I might add that I can't count the number of times I've subsided Knit whines of being low on numbers, I've always told them "Its our turn in the bucket...it'll change.." Sure enough, it does...this time it has not, and its gone on for more than a tour..
[ 06-12-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]
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Originally posted by SWulfe:
Yup, you missing the "whiner complex"...
;)
-SW
Why am I not surprised to see another smart bellybutton response from a PUNK with an overly inflated sense of self worth.
You bring nothing to the table at all with your remarks.
Instead of being a smart bellybutton punk all the time why don't you add something of worth occasionally?
I REALLY hope to meet you someday, I want to see if your willing to be a punk face to face.....
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If you act the same way in real life, I will speak to you the same way I type.. I don't like self-pitying whiney people in real life either... so it won't change much.
As far as the "punk" comment... ooo! You got me there. Ouch!
"Bring something to the table"... like what? I tried to help with the situation, but it's kinda hard to do something when you aren't the squad leader.
Hblair switched your squad for whatever reason... now you are whining that you are on the toejam end of the stick... man the irony!
It's always easier to point the finger at someone else!
-SW
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
... but what I do care about is the mass log offs by folks being disgusted, folks canceling accounts...
All I got to say to that is refer to my earlier post....grow a backbone...if guys are quitting because of this than they probably had one foot out the door already and good riddance to them.
The bish have had their days as the overwhelming underdogs. It happens to everyone from time to time
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This all makes me wonder if there will be a fun little squeak-slapping contest at the convention?
hahahahah
Dago
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Originally posted by sling322:
The bish have had their days as the overwhelming underdogs. It happens to everyone from time to time
As I have repeated many times, it DOES happen from time to time, for everyone, however, this time I have metrics for 6 weeks...its nothing personal, its business, and HTC is gonna suffer because of it, something no one wants I would surely hope!
I might add, hardly anyone quits over one issue, its usually a conglomeration of issues, this one issue will push them over the edge of hitting that delete button, and if you think its not an issue, then do some post searching, its been a topic for 1.5 years now, my general response was "turn in the bucket" until I stubbled upon some inside info, and started scribbling down numbers to confirm it...
[ 06-12-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]
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I've already been told to bring a box of bandaids if I go.... boy, I wonder what fun adventures involves a box of bandaids.......
SOB, you would know... :)
-SW
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Originally posted by SWulfe:
I've already been told to bring a box of bandaids if I go.... boy, I wonder what fun adventures involves a box of bandaids.......
SOB, you would know... :)
-SW
Those band-aids were for the Swedish Bikini team's swim suit competition...they aren't going to the con though..they caught wind of the Bish hoards and the fact that they may gangbang the con has turned them off to the idea...Thanks Bish! :)
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I heard it was because all of the FDBs were going to the con that the Swedish SwimSuit Bikini team decided not to go...
Thanks you Phat DrUnk BaStardS ies!
:D
-SW
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Swulfe, why don't you talk to curly and gordo, and see if you can work out some sort of trade. You'd fit right in there with animal and creamo, You could be the "Ringleader Bad-guy". You would be such a phat d3\/\/d then. And on occasion, they could all take turns breaking your nose.
Oh yeah, that'd rock!
;)
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If anyone takes me seriously, they are a few beers short of a 6 pack....
-SW
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
... until I stubbled upon some inside info, and started scribbling down numbers to confirm it...
[ 06-12-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]
Hmmmm....some top secret conspiracy then. Dude, Ripsnort, you have been sniffing leather over there in Knitland for too long. You are starting to absorb the whole "LW Conspiracy theory" attitude.
If people arent having fun in the arena then let them go. They will be back....its been proven. :) If they really wanna blame the unbalance of the arena as their reason to leave then what can you say to stop them. If you solve that problem, then they will find some other whine to explain why they are leaving.
I hate to see the player base get smaller Rip, but really, I think arena balance is a very weak excuse.
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Think so sling? Okay, come knit for 6 weeks. :)
I will repeat myself again, its usually not one issue, its usually a combination of issues, but it takes only 1 issue (proverbial straw that breaks the camels back) to push em over the edge. If a developer addresses these issues (see Chog whine) then there is more potential of revenue.
[ 06-12-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Ammo, everyones noticed numbers flucuate up and down for any one particular country since beta, usually extending for no longer than 1 tour (most cases, 2-3 days) Now its been 6+ weeks..its a problem, there are squads from AW organizing this on purpose, its sole purpose being that of winning it all , at all costs...so, you see, it really has nothing to do with country rotations as it does with a needed built in game play modifier to curb this type of behavior...(IMO)
I might add that I can't count the number of times I've subsided Knit whines of being low on numbers, I've always told them "Its our turn in the bucket...it'll change.." Sure enough, it does...this time it has not, and its gone on for more than a tour..
[ 06-12-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]
Its not that i disagree with your post or your point of view rip, I was not even directing it your way. I was just following the line of thought starting with the title of the post. That is why I posted. So then you do agree that rotating squads are not at fault for the unbalancing numbers we have now? I am also not sure that this is that much of a problem that HTC needs to look into. Some do I know.
ammo
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Oh I agree, the post was off mark, I had one where I simply gave a <S> to the squads who do not rotate, ie. <S> long time friends in Knitland, but was flamed by Deja for even that...so, tough crowd to please, I was simply pointing out that it's always been a variable in the past, and it no longer is a varible. Its a constant.
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I'll flame the same remark again rip.
You are also saluting people that are contributing to the problem. If a squad has a squadnight with 30 people playing.. they are going to skew the numbers... but you salute that.
You cited people that you really enjoy teaming with on a regular basis, but you salute those you've never teamed with at all.
The post had, has and will always have two meanings. And, as I said before... don't try to come off like it doesn't. It wasn't a "salute to those I team with".
AKDejaVu
[edit]Oh.. and my flame consisted of phrase: "Sure you are"[/edit]
[ 06-12-2001: Message edited by: AKDejaVu ]
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Think so sling? Okay, come knit for 6 weeks. :)
[ 06-12-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]
I would, but you got too many LuftWhiners over there. And besides, I am just a latrine scrubber....I dont get to make those tough decisions. :) You have to talk to the top dogs like Gordo....if you can ever find him in the arena.
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All squads of all three countries have squad nights, usually one night a week. You think thats gonna cause the same number imbalance that rotating squads do when they all bungle into the same country every couple of months?
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Deja, yes it was a compliment to my fellow flyers, its just that your just anal retentive, its not very becoming of you... :D
Mirror mirror on the wall....
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Originally posted by sling322:
I would, but you got too many LuftWhiners over there. And besides, I am just a latrine scrubber....I dont get to make those tough decisions. :) You have to talk to the top dogs like Gordo....if you can ever find him in the arena.
Excuses excuses, now you use "rank and file" for that loose ship you call FDB for an excuse...you know what? You couldn't handle it Sling, ya just couldn't handle it, you'd quit after 1 week..just admit it.
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And you are a dickhead Ripsnort... one that really knows how to carry a grudge. :D
AKDejaVu
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All squads of all three countries have squad nights, usually one night a week. You think thats gonna cause the same number imbalance that rotating squads do when they all bungle into the same country every couple of months?
With some yes.. with others no.
BTW.. ever remember the time someone called for all squads <for one particular country> to be there on the same night? Suppose that was for the sake of balance and making the night more enjoyable for everyone else on-line.
AKDejaVu
[ 06-12-2001: Message edited by: AKDejaVu ]
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....bah, your hardly worth it Deja..never mind.
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:) :( :D ;) :eek: :p :rolleyes: :confused:
I figured this thread could use some more pointless and useless crap added to it.
-SW
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And you are worth it Rip.
The whole "everyone gets their turn in the bucket" mentality promotes the lopsidedness seen in the arena. The same arguments against lopsided teams are used to justify gang-bang attacks... and if the team being gang-banged doesn't have numbers then the "its your turn in the bucket" line comes up.
Everyone remember what it was like when you were getting the crap kicked out of you? How much did you like it? Did you wish the other sides would stop double-teaming? Remember that the next time you have everyone flying out of one base attacking only one front. Remember that when you have 50 people prioritizing a nation with only 35 people on-line.
It has nothing to do with rotating squads or squads that don't rotate. It has to do with the behavior of each individual playing the game. Time for everyone to take ownership of their own actions and worry less about others.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by hblair:
Swulfe, why don't you talk to curly and gordo, and see if you can work out some sort of trade. You'd fit right in there with animal and creamo, You could be the "Ringleader Bad-guy". You would be such a phat d3\/\/d then. And on occasion, they could all take turns breaking your nose.
Oh yeah, that'd rock!
;)
Good lord Hblair, it's bad enough that we already have Animal & Gordo (http://nbctv.nbci.com/snl/screening_room/the_clip_loaded_fr.asp?directory=98g&file=agd_fan_club&speed=128&vtype=ns), don't go putting ideas into SeaWulfe's head now too! You're just mad because you have to put up with Milenko and Lizard!
SOB
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
With some yes.. with others no.
BTW.. ever remember the time someone called for all squads <for one particular country> to be there on the same night? Suppose that was for the sake of balance and making the night more enjoyable for everyone else on-line.
AKDejaVu
Deja, squad nights last one night, Squad rotations usually last a month, or have you guys started a weekly rotation now?
<g,d,r>
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Lemme see now... last time I looked in there were about 70 knits on; prime time US.
And, according to the numbers published above the Bish killed 'em all about SIXTEEN THOUSAND + TIMES.
Issit any wonder they squeak? Now; look here.. it should be obvious that if killin 'em 16,000 times won't make 'em stop squeakin, lettin 'em outta the bucket won't make 'em any less vocal.
:D
Hang
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2nd time this month I logged on and Knits actually had 7 more pilots than Rooks, Bish, amazingly, 30 min later, it was 45/45/45, then, around 6pm PDT, bish numbers were up again, but not 2 to 1....not bad, 2 days out of 12!
BTW, excellent fights with the 56th FG, they know how to handle their -11's! <S>
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There were some great battles last night. Saw two bases captured using LVTs (First I've seen it work).. and pretty even numbers all around for the 3 hours I was on.
I did get a chuckle out of someone using the "bishrook" phrase in another thread. I can't help but think its more perspective than anything.
AKDejaVu
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Let's just cut to the chase now shall we?
Who are the squads who are in cahoots and organising on the same side in pursuit of the perpetual pig pile.
Let's name em, mark em and quarantine em.
Then spank the dickens out of them! Every day as those who oppose thier methods can perform a seek and destroy.
Until HTC can provide a solution because it's plain obvious the players cannot.
-Westy
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*If* they read the boards, that's for them to answer...as I stated before, I caught some 'CC' correspondence via email as I notified a few squads of last weeks Snap shot.
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OK, so they're organizing a few squads to fly for one country and kick some butt. Why is that a problem? I'm still trying to figure out how this is differnt in any way from MAG-33.
In any case, I say they go Knit. That way, we can end the whining and I'll have plenty of toejam to kill. I hate having to fight over a target...especially with my poor gunnery and the 4 .50s in my 51b!
SOB
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Most ever that MAG-33 has had online at once is 15, for our monthly squad meet. And, its for 1 hour. 1 hour a month that is...
We have on a regular basis about 5-10 online at any given time.
Actually, I think squads that stay put, and squads that rotate is fine, if everyone rotated, we wouldn't ever fly with some squads...the thread is alittle off, but what it brings to lite is the imbalance issue that needs to be addressed or HTC will lose business.
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Ok everyone has its own solution,as... knights are always whining,... its not true they are outnumbered,... happens to every contry from time to time,.. its not true they are gangbanged (lol someone must be blind :D), ..and so on.
Losting our Knights time writing here about theese things instead of fighting them hard!! ;)
Come on gangbangers and blamers of whining, come with your hordes of chog and nikis, we are waiting to fight and shot you down, it will be fun ,though we will lost our bases one after the other and then you will reset.
:rolleyes:
No fear to be on the losing side proud to be Knights
:D Gotta stop mix beer and wine :D
:p jokin Nib
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Why don't we try something unique? Instead of all this bickering we seem to have gotten into, lets come together and resolve the issue. Some of these posts are from people I enjoy flying with and against and I want to keep it that way, except for SOB of course :D.
Aren't we actually talking about tactics versus strategy? Numbers, who ever has them at the moment, gives that country a tactical advantage. Once that country whittles you down, then takes out all radar, they then have a strategic advantage. It seems to me that were we to do away with in-flight radar and darbar for ALL countries, it would give even the fewest numbered country an opportunity to implement a tactical battle plan, an NOE attack, for example and maybe even allow them to fight their way out of the hole and win the day.
I am not naive enough to assume this is the cure all or the one and only answer, but I think you can see where I'm going? Lets at least start on problem resolution and not problem compounding.
<S>
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Good post Apache, you say it so much more eloquently than me...
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And Apache gets (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/user_ratings_1.gif) :D
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>Not just a 'Our turn in the bucket'...since the big influx of AW fans, its become an
apparent problem, resulting in mass exits of folks logging in disgust, some even quitting.
Ripsnort:
I am one of the AWers along with all of my squad that did not switch to the Bishops :)
I will tell you though, I'm seeing in the MA much of what was prevalent in the AW arenas; dweebish gangbanging of 2 countries on 1 country. This dynamic has more in common with AW than it does with WBz.
Solution? I don't think there is one with a 3 country setup. It does get old quickly, and pilits do log off in disgust. These are the byproducts of dweebery, and by my observations, dweebery is alive and well in AH. I do not think the influx of AWers had anything to do with what has prolly always existed, it only put a point on the problem.
With established squads switching countries every camp, that will add to overbalance as well.
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I just wanted to post here to break the monotony of the five or six who keep going at each other :D
The Musketeers don't switch sides - I have been rook since I started playing. This is fine with me. As the scores posted proves, the Rooks have some pretty good numbers.
Couple my squad - the best in the game - with the country I fly for - the Rooks - I really don't mind being the underdog. In fact, I prefer it. But then, I realize its only a game. Lots of enemies means lots of opportunities to have fun.
We have all taken our turn at being the underdog. Yes, it is unfortunate that the Bishops tend to blow up their woes to unbelievable (and untrue) proportions, but it will come around again someday that we will all have to be underdogs again. Its a fact of life we must learn to deal with, and continue to have fun, despite the numbers.
http://www.nethawk.org/misc/NetHawk.jpg (http://www.nethawk.org/misc/NetHawk.jpg)
[ 06-13-2001: Message edited by: Nethawk ]
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Originally posted by SOB:
<S!> To all the squads that don't rotate! <BELCH!>
SOB
Pfffft!!!! :p
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i never picture ripsnort being a whiner i thought he was a good pilot but now i see that he is the president of the luftwhiner councel. shut up and fly if you would just do that the bish would be out numbered 5-1. i figured out where all the knits and rooks are at they are here whining all the time.
Tards :eek:
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Originally posted by Nethawk:
Yes, it is unfortunate that the Bishops tend to blow up their woes to unbelievable (and untrue) proportions, [ 06-13-2001: Message edited by: Nethawk ]
Ummmm....dont you mean Knits there buddy....I mean this whole thread has been about how the Bish have everyone outnumbered and surrounded. :)
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(http://www.dbstaines.com/images/knitrook1.GIF)
(http://www.dbstaines.com/images/knitrook2.GIF)
And to answer the original poster's question: On what night should we check the numbers?
And... to those that whine about being outnumbered and still play the old "gang-bang" thing while maintaining that its only the other side that does it: <finger>
[ 06-13-2001: Message edited by: AKDejaVu ]
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we can get this one to 100? :) probably :)
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98 (http://www.3dpcgames.com/cwm/s/cwm/cwm/Up_to_something.gif)
Surprised it's gone this long, and I haven't even posted to it for 2 days!
-SW
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Oh what the hell.....99!
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:eek:
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
(http://www.dbstaines.com/images/knitrook1.GIF)
(http://www.dbstaines.com/images/knitrook2.GIF)
And to answer the original poster's question: On what night should we check the numbers?
[ 06-13-2001: Message edited by: AKDejaVu ]
Aww cummon' Deja, anybody can post a pic of the map to support their POV just as you did. The facts are that anytime the MA's numbers get up to the 160-180 mark the Bish will have the numbers advantage. I've been tracking the numbers the past 3 days and it has been rather even but the numbers have been kinda off lately. It's at primetime and when the overall numbers reach the 160 mark is where the lopsided numbers come in to play. Trying to blow smoke like this is sad.
Also, maybe, just maybe some of the Bish hoard have seen the error of their ways and have tried to do the right thing...ya think?
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That was prime time lars. 6 pm pacific. Low numbers may have had something to do with the onset of night... but that's a different argument.
I really like the photo because it shows the wonderfull "not only are they grossly outnumbered but they are being double teamed to boot" aspect of things.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
That was prime time lars. 6 pm pacific. Low numbers may have had something to do with the onset of night... but that's a different argument.
I really like the photo because it shows the wonderfull "not only are they grossly outnumbered but they are being double teamed to boot" aspect of things.
AKDejaVu
Like I said, the numbers have been off the past 3 nights. I'll post a shot of the map from this past Sunday if ya like but it won't show the roster #'s. Your pic only shows the exception, not the norm for the past month and a half.
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Is it posible to order take out online yet? And I am wondering what is the plutonic affect when chess pieces take an active role in politics? Is it true J.R. is still alive? Did Disco ever die out? Did the monkey's really sing their own songs? Is sex real? OK this last one doesn't count for 68.3% of AH flyers, judging by the online times, spanctravision must be programmed into a small 3X3 minimized window for them. Words of advice.
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Like I said, the numbers have been off the past 3 nights.
Like I said... just what nights should we chose when making the selection?
By saying that the numbers have been off.. you really mean they no longer support your original statement and should just be disregarded.
OK.. I get it. No point in revisiting here.
AKDejaVu