Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: beet1e on August 08, 2004, 03:07:36 PM
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I was a little harsh in my assessment of the value of prayer threads on this board some time ago. As one recent case has shown, these prayer threads can provide a source of great comfort for those troubled by the loss of loved ones.
Given that our AH community is world-wide, it follows that there will be people here from numerous religious persuasions. And while some of us may question the value of prayer, there is no denying the existence of the placebo value of prayer.
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placebo value of prayer.
take 2 m&ms and call me in the morning.
if you dont believe in the POWER in prayer why bother?
That being said you are now on my prayer list :D
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Glad to know that Beetle is the all-knowing and was able to make this pronouncement.
What an ass.
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Beetle still knows how to hook them when he wants too :cool:
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Well... now HERE is a worthless post.
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Originally posted by Tumor
Well... now HERE is a worthless post.
Yeah beetle instead of a fake prayer, if I need help just offer me up a fatted calf on the alter. Nothing eases my mind like the smell of a fatted calf.
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BRAINS! THE GRAND INTELLECT DEMANDS BRAINNNSS!!!!
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LOL Beet1e :D
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Gonna need a bigger boat, Beatle.
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Heavenly Father I pray for Beetle Lord, If he makes it to heaven and I pray he does. Would you consider letting him be on the eastern side and me on the western side. That way Lord I will be as far from him as possible.
Thank you for your answer Lord.
In Jesus name amen.
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I see the Prozac in Beetle's water is working! :D
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There is prayer, and it works, there is no placebo for prayer, but some will call it when your about to talk about it or writing it, you begin to feel better, but you just talking to yourself, and praying for yourself, going over everything..
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beet got some real good power bait here.
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People have been praying for 10's of thousands of years. Do you feel a little on the spot to take the stand that its worthless or a placebo? No one taught humans how to pray - they did it - it was a part of their evolution. How the heck can we possible know or understand all its power?
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[list=1]Main Entry: pla·ce·bo
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -bos
a (1) : a medication prescribed more for the mental relief of the patient than for its actual effect on a disorder (2) : an inert or innocuous substance used especially in controlled experiments testing the efficacy of another substance (as a drug) b : something tending to soothe[/list]
Hey, it's easier to put the weight of responsibility on something else. It certainly seemed easier for most to give credit to something intangible than to logic. On an individual basis, why wouldn't Beetle's observation fit with def. B? I've never heard of prayers pissing people off.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Prior to Blammo's kid going missing last week, I thought you guys all knew how useless religion was. The evidence of the prayer threads points to the contrary.
Given that our AH community is world-wide, it follows that there will be people here from numerous religious persuasions. I'd like to inform the ones that believe in prayer that they're floating in a world of blissfull ignorance.
sheesh
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"People have been praying for 10's of thousands of years. "
They also thought the Earth was flat for thousands of years.
Indeed, that statement seems to confirm Beet1e's declaration more than anything else. Prayer worked for some people in ancient times much as it does today, but those ancient people were praying to Zeus or Posidon or whatnot instead of God the Almighty. In other words the belief in the power of prayer seems to make more of a difference than which specific diety you're praying to.
Of course there's the somewhat humorous example of two opposing soldiers on the battlefield, both of whom are fervently praying for God to spare him and kill the other guy. Obviously one of those guys is going to see his prayer "work" while the other guy will discover whether God exists firsthand.
J_A_B
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>>They also thought the Earth was flat for thousands of years<<
Thats grade school history. I think it was Aristarchus (300 BC)who figured the *circumference* of the earth within 400 miles of the accepted figure today. A lot of what was known couldn't be said because of the Church or government or military. So you had people knowing one thing but only able to write the accepted view, or go to jail - e.g., Galileo
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I think the first sentence in Beetle's post was sincere.
I think the second sentence was priceless!
Ravs
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"So you had people knowing one thing but only able to write the accepted view, or go to jail - e.g., Galileo"
That's a few individuals, not the general population.
J_A_B
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JAB? Are you referring to the ones who were excommunicated or burnt at the stake?
Ravs
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Ding....Tweety bird is wrong again.sorry
300 bc No sorry ...1500 plus years before that God told Isiah the world was round....
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>>Ding....Tweety bird is wrong again.sorry
300 bc No sorry ...1500 plus years before that God told Isiah the world was round....<<
Maybe you could quote the wrong part for me?
Did Isiah measure the circumference of the world with 400 miles of the acceptable figure of today? Did Aristarchus?
Just quote the wrong part.
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Don't know the date, but I know the Egyptians did it by measuring the length of shadows between Heliopolis and some other location further south and got a pretty accurate result. Definitely happened B.C.
Only problem was that the Christian church started suppressing 'the world is a sphere' information after that and once again we were plunged into the darkness of ignorance. I'm sure the navigators ignored the church and carried right on though.
Ravs
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Tweety is right on this one. The Ionians (Greeks) were the first to offer a scientific measurement for the circumfrence of the Earth. But it was Eratosthenes not Aristarchus.
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>>But it was Eratosthenes not Aristarchus.<<
Was it? ok sorry - I was going back to my Western Civ class a long time ago :D
Thanks for the correction.
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Well, yes God did , you see he told enoch the measurement of the world, and guess what waaayyyyy back then God used the British Imperal inch....And you know what, midnight and tweety...ancient egypt and ancient babalonia would disagree with you .
The measurement of the earth would take a lotttt of time and study to prove...Maybe there might be someone on much more learned than me who could help.
I am surprised you didnt just say God didnt tell isaiah,darn, oh well.
Ravells...there is a small amount of truth in what you say but gees you paint with a large paint brush. History is far from that cut and dried.
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care to amplify, demaw?
The Roman Catholic church then was fighting for power. Could I mention Martin Luther at this point?
I entirely agree that history is not cut and dried, but please tell me of the roman catholic church doing anything to help the advancement of science when it was against their interests between 9 - 16 AD.
I'd be curious to know
Ravs
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Originally posted by demaw1
The measurement of the earth would take a lotttt of time and study to prove...Maybe there might be someone on much more learned than me who could help.
Well... if your only acceptable proof is to actually circle the earth, yeah... otherwise, it doesn't take that long.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Science is still against their interests. It's not like Darwin is the most popular name in the Vatican these days.
More on topic; I didn't want to bring this up earlier, but I too found the "missing child" prayer thread a bit strange. Not because people were praying for the safe return of the child ... that's perfectly understandable, but because when the child was found people thanked Jesus. The parents even said something to the effect of "Jesus did this".
I thought: Poor "Bob". He did all the work, but Jesus got the credit. No wonder Jesus is so popular in Christian circles when he gets the credit for every good thing men and women do.
You dont understand this country at all, do you?
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I wonder what the most common phrase or thoughts uttered by people who know/believe they are about to die is? I'd bet that most humans call out to God or Jesus to save them when all the chips are down.
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One thing I find intersting is faith and how some put faith in God and some put faith in science - and I guess some, both (e.g., science is a gift from God).
Where ever the faith lies, it doesn't seem to be a rational choice. Most people who place their faith in God have never seen a miracle or anything devine, yet they chose God to order existance.
Most who place their faith in science have never seen a neutron, evidence of evolution, or been outside of the atmosphere, yet they choose science to order existance.
I guess thats why its called faith - but it is interesting that the choice seems irrational. I don't think it is really irrational, but decided in a part of the mind we can't access directly (parlty subconcious, partly not). A few scientists are studying the God center of the brain. And a guess a few theologans are studying the God center of the soul :)
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Originally posted by GScholz
You are correct that faith or belief is not a rational decision. You can't chose to believe, it's a subconscious process; you either believe or you don't.
How do you know if it's rational or not? I mean, do you really know?
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>>you either believe or you don't.<<
Now I believe that! :) Thats the problem I have with people trying to "save" others. I mean if there is an all omniscient God, he would know if I was hedging my bet to avoid fire and brimstone. So its stupid to claim I believe something I don't trully believe.
I tend to believe - hope - have faith in - lead my life accordingly - that there is sense to it all. Just as science shows, no matter in the universe can be destroyed (though I personaly have done no experiments to *prove* it), I hope this principle crosses the spiritual devide, and we are pieces of something that always exists. But I have no idea what the big picture is, and I'd be an idiot to pretend I do. I guess that makes me agnostic?
I think the prayer helped Blammo's son - but I sure as heck don't *know* how.
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Interesting theory GS. Have any studies been conducted or was this something you came up with?
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I have my own theory(ies), but I choose not to believe any of them. :D I'll save'em for another thread... some may be offended with one variation. :)
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Originally posted by GScholz
I don't think this has anything to do with nationality. Overly religious Christians behave in much the same way here.
I was moving more along the lines of accepted social behavior. Had Blammo, for example, claimed credit for finding his son instead of (insert heavenly being of choice here) it wouldnt have come off well in this country at all.
Its just something you do in this country when fortune finds you - no matter the circumstances surrounding the event.
Failure to 'give thanks' is considered very bad form here. Dont ask me why - but that seems to be the case.
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thank god saur clarified that... lol
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Originally posted by Delirium
I see the Prozac in Beetle's water is working! :D
Yes but the lead paint is having a stronger effect.
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"you either believe or you don't."
Or---you lack the information to make a supportable claim either way. This is where the Agnostics fall.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by demaw1
Well, yes God did , you see he told enoch the measurement of the world, and guess what waaayyyyy back then God used the British Imperal inch....And you know what, midnight and tweety...ancient egypt and ancient babalonia would disagree with you .
The measurement of the earth would take a lotttt of time and study to prove...Maybe there might be someone on much more learned than me who could help.
I am surprised you didnt just say God didnt tell isaiah,darn, oh well.
Ravells...there is a small amount of truth in what you say but gees you paint with a large paint brush. History is far from that cut and dried.
If you are really curious here is how Eratosthenes did it. (from memory, so verify if you wish)
He noticed (or was told) that at it's highest point in the sky, the sun shone all the way down to the bottom of a well in a certain town in central Egypt. He also noticed that in Alexandria a stick in the ground cast a small shadow at the same time.
If you were to assume that the sun was in the same relative position for the 2 places (a valid assumption based on it's distance) the only conclusion would be that the earth is curved.
Eratosthenes actually paid a guy to pace off the distance between the 2 cities. He then took the angle of the shadow at Alexandria and using that as the portion of the arc of a circle (sphere) calculated the circumfrence of the earth to a pretty high rate of accuracy.
In fact, Ptolemy (the astronomer not the Pharoe) came up with a much smaller figure a few hundred years later. Columbus chose to believe Ptolemy instead of Eratosthenes. This is why he (Columbus) thought he reached Asia.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Science is still against their interests. It's not like Darwin is the most popular name in the Vatican these days.
Yeah, the names Jesus, Mary, and God are probably more popular.
Nevertheless, in 1996 Pope Paul II accepted biologic evolution as a "an effectively proven fact."
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Originally posted by myelo
Yeah, the names Jesus, Mary, and God are probably more popular.
Nevertheless, in 1996 Pope Paul II accepted biologic evolution as a "an effectively proven fact."
WTG beet1e, good haul.
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Originally posted by storch
WTG beet1e, good haul.
What I said was entirely in keeping with my own beliefs. But yes, threads like this have a good ENY value.
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Prayer threads make baby Jesus cry.
-SW
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Originally posted by myelo
Yeah, the names Jesus, Mary, and God are probably more popular.
Nevertheless, in 1996 Pope Paul II accepted biologic evolution as a "an effectively proven fact."
Yeah but what does the pope know? Do you know the bible says forbidding men to marry is the doctrine of demons?
Kinda throws a kink in the whole catholic thing,
Ya think?
Do you know that the popes motto means"in place of christ"?
Have you seen the upside down cross on the back of the popes chair?
Just a little stink bait....
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Originally posted by X2Lee
Yeah but what does the pope know? Do you know the bible says forbidding men to marry is the doctrine of demons?
Kinda throws a kink in the whole catholic thing,
Ya think?
Do you know that the popes motto means"in place of christ"?
Have you seen the upside down cross on the back of the popes chair?
Just a little stink bait....
Do you know that The Pope in Spanish is El Papa. Papa in Spanish is potato. Who in their right minds listens to potatos?
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>>Have you seen the upside down cross on the back of the popes chair?
<<
I believe that has something to do with the crucifixion of Peter - the first pope. He was crucified upside down. There's a famous painting of it, but I forgot who did it. I'd guess Michelangelo, but not certain. Maybe it was Caravaggio.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
I believe that has something to do with the crucifixion of Peter - the first pope. He was crucified upside down.
I think he was one of the original 12 disciples. If I'm not mistaken, he chose the upside down method because he felt unworthy of dying in the same way Jesus had died. His death came 35 years after that of Jesus.
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Originally posted by beet1e
I think he was one of the original 12 disciples. If I'm not mistaken, he chose the upside down method because he felt unworthy of dying in the same way Jesus had died. His death came 35 years after that of Jesus.
Yeah maybe so, but its also the sign of the antichrist.
with so many folks thinking that the catholic church is the great potato of babylon and the city on 7 hills is rome you would think they would lose symboism of the anti christ.
theres plenty more symbolism of the antichrist in the roman catholic church also
why?
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Originally posted by X2Lee
Yeah maybe so, but its also the sign of the antichrist.
with so many folks thinking that the catholic church is the great potato of babylon and the city on 7 hills is rome you would think they would lose symboism of the anti christ.
theres plenty more symbolism of the antichrist in the roman catholic church also
why?
Because the greatest lie is the one closest to the truth. 99.9999999% truth is still a lie.
Silly man quit asking questions you already know the answer to.
Let them go to where most folks go when they die. they go to a lake of fire and fry, you won't see them again til the fourth of Julyyyyah.
:D
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>>with so many folks thinking that the catholic church is the great potato of babylon and the city on 7 hills is rome you would think they would lose symboism of the anti christ. <<
only wackos think that :D
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>with so many folks thinking that the catholic church is the great potato of babylon and the city on 7 hills is rome you would think they would lose symboism of the anti christ. <<
only wackos think that :D
Thylvethter is looking for you. You nasty little yellow feathered troller. :D