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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Eagler on August 09, 2004, 09:11:15 AM

Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Eagler on August 09, 2004, 09:11:15 AM
Kerry's war record
Robert Novak
August 9, 2004

 WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The television ad that aroused the wrath of John McCain and journalist supporters of John Kerry just begins deconstruction of the Democratic presidential candidate's war record. "Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry," a 214-page critique of his performance in Vietnam and the antiwar movement, is off the presses ahead of schedule.
 
I have read the book and found it is neither the political propaganda nor the urban legend that its detractors claim. It is a passionate but meticulously researched account of how Kerry went to war, what he did in the war and how he conducted himself after the war. The very serious charges by former comrades deserve answers but so far have produced only ad hominem counterattacks.

 Why should details of what Kerry did more than 30 years ago be part of this election campaign? Only because the senator has made them integral to his strategy. Kerry as war hero received more attention at the Democratic National Convention than plans for the future. Thus, what he did in his shortened four months of combat becomes a valid campaign issue.

 John E. O'Neill, co-author of "Unfit for Command," replaced Kerry as commander of Swift Boat PCF 94 in 1969 and has been confronting him since 1971. O'Neill told me he is no George W. Bush partisan and probably would have supported John Edwards had he been nominated for president, but is committed to keeping Kerry out of the Oval Office. Thus, reversing the usual formulation, the assault on Kerry is personal but not political.

 O'Neill told me neither he nor his co-author (Jerome R. Corsi, a writer and expert on the Vietnam antiwar movement) has had contact with the Bush White House or the Bush-Cheney campaign. He said he and Corsi, on their own initiative, went to conservative Regnery Publishing to offer the book.

 The co-authors paint Kerry as a reluctant warrior. Contrary to claims by Kerry's supporters that he served two combat hitches in Vietnam, his one-year term aboard a guided missile frigate was far from action. His four months in the brown water navy were terminated eight months early by a third Purple Heart wound, none of which required hospitalization.

 The book's strength is the vehemence of testimony by swift boat veterans, alleging that Kerry "gamed" the system to win decorations and later betrayed comrades by charging war crimes. Typical is the quote by Bob Hildreth, commanding an accompanying boat: "I would never want Kerry behind me. I wouldn't want him in front of me, either. And I sure wouldn't want him commanding our kids in Iraq and Afghanistan." Some 200 "Swiftees" on May 4 signed a letter to Kerry demanding full release of his service records.

 The book's weakness is support for Kerry's presidential campaign by his swift boat crewmates, presumably people who knew him best. O'Neill told me that these former sailors served with Kerry no more than five weeks. Jim Rassmann, now part of the Kerry presidential campaign, was a Special Forces lieutenant spending a few days with Kerry when he fell or was knocked off the swift boat while under fire and was fished out of the Mekong River by the future candidate.

 The "band of brothers" was organized by Kerry, according to this book. It tells of a 2003 telephone call to Adm. Roy Hoffmann, who commanded swift boats in Vietnam, telling him he was running for president. Hoffmann, mistakenly thinking it was former Sen. Bob Kerrey, "responded enthusiastically." Once the admiral realized it was John Kerry, "he declined to give Kerry his support." Hoffmann is quoted as saying, "I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be commander in chief of the armed forces of the United States."

 "Unfit for Command" sends a devastating message, unless effectively refuted. Perhaps most disturbing are allegations that Kerry's combat decorations are unjustified. His first Purple Heart, the book alleges, was accidentally self-inflicted. His commander, Grant Hibbard, is quoted as saying: "I didn't recommend him for a Purple Heart. Kerry probably wrote up the paperwork and recommended himself." Full release of documents demanded by his critics could settle this claim quickly if it is unwarranted.

===================
snake oil salesman who couldn't run on his flip flop life long political career so he turned into a dumbacrat "war hero" - LOL
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: GRUNHERZ on August 09, 2004, 09:15:47 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/cst-edt-novak09.html

THE CHICAGO SUN TIMES IS A RIGHT WING RAG!!!!! UNRELIABLE!!!!!!  LIES!!!!! CHICAGO SUCKS!!!!!!
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Saintaw on August 09, 2004, 09:22:48 AM
Is this what we call a "weird fascination"?
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: slimm50 on August 09, 2004, 09:34:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
Is this what we call a "weird fascination"?

I don't understand the quotation marks here, Saw, and what's "wierd" about concerns about a presidential candidate's qualifications?
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: GRUNHERZ on August 09, 2004, 09:35:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
Is this what we call a "weird fascination"?


If you mean by Euro/Canadian obsession with Kerry then yes...
Title: Re: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Hortlund on August 09, 2004, 09:44:13 AM
Quote
His first Purple Heart, the book alleges, was accidentally self-inflicted. His commander, Grant Hibbard, is quoted as saying: "I didn't recommend him for a Purple Heart. Kerry probably wrote up the paperwork and recommended himself."


Dude...
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on August 09, 2004, 09:47:33 AM
Jebus, I'll end this right now:

Bush's war record
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Exactly, if this war record deal is the deciding factor for president - then you should not be allowed to vote.
-SW
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Fruda on August 09, 2004, 09:49:51 AM
You speak of "qualifications", when in fact your candidate, G.W. Bush, has none whatsoever.

Way to go, sir.
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Coolridr on August 09, 2004, 09:50:54 AM
I'm in the Navy and am not impressed by war heros. That kind of campaigning went out when the whole post Vietnam peace craze started.
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Saintaw on August 09, 2004, 09:54:43 AM
I am refering to Eaglar posting the same stuff over and over again... and using words like "POTUS" ... Tom Clancy wanabe...
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Coolridr on August 09, 2004, 09:56:26 AM
and futhermore. Someones experience from 30+ years ago hold no bearing on qualifications to run the military tody. WE DO NOTHING THE SAME as they did then. Besides the Pres. only tells his commanders what he wants and they choose the best wayy to execute it, and will let him know what the military can and can't do.
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Hortlund on August 09, 2004, 10:01:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Fruda
You speak of "qualifications", when in fact your candidate, G.W. Bush, has none whatsoever.

Way to go, sir.



List of GWB accomplishments so far (taken from other forum) :

Quote

Abortion & Traditional Values

1. Banned Partial Birth Abortion — by far the most significant roll-back of abortion on demand since Roe v. Wade.
2. Reversed Clinton's move to strike Reagan's anti-abortion Mexico Policy.
3. By Executive Order (EO), reversed Clinton's policy of not requiring parental consent for abortions under the Medical Privacy Act.
4. By EO, prohibited federal funds for international family planning groups that provide abortions and related services.
5. Upheld the ban on abortions at military hospitals.
6. Made $33 million available for abstinence education programs in 2004.
7. Supports the Defense of Marriage Act — and a Constitutional amendment saying marriage is between one man and one woman.
8. Requires states to conduct criminal background checks on prospective foster and adoptive parents.
9. Requires districts to let students transfer out of dangerous schools.
10. Requires schools to have a zero-tolerance policy for classroom disruption (reintroducing discipline into classrooms).
11. Signed the Teacher Protection Act, which protects teachers from lawsuits related to student discipline.
12. Expanded the role of faith-based and community organizations in after-school programs.

Budget, Taxes & Economy

1. Signed two income tax cuts, one of which was the largest dollar-value tax cut in world history.
2. Supports permanent elimination of the death tax.
3. Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks.
4. Is seeking legislation to amend the Constitution to give the president line-item veto authority.
5. In process of permanently eliminating IRS marriage penalty.
6. Increased small business incentives to expand and to hire new people.
7. Initiated discussion on privatizing Social Security and individual investment accounts.
8. Killed Clinton's "ergonomic" rules that OSHA was about to implement; rules would have shut down every home business in America.
9. Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals.
10. Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains.
11. Signed trade promotion authority.
12. Reduced and is working to ultimately eliminate the estate tax for family farms and ranches.
13. Fight Europe's ban on importing biotech crops from the United States.
14. Exempt food from unilateral trade sanctions and embargoes.
15. Provided $20 million to states to help people with disabilities work from home.
16. Created a fund to encourage technologies that help the disabled.
17. Increased the annual contribution limit on Education IRA's from $500 to $2,000 per child.
18. Make permanent the $5,000 adoption tax credit and provide $1 billion over five years to increase the credit to $10,000.
19. Grant a complete tax exemption for prepaid or college tuition savings plans.
20. Reduced H1B visas from a high of 195,000 per year to 66,000 per year.

Character & Conduct as President

1. Changed the tone in the White House, restoring HONOR and DIGNITY to the presidency.
2. Has reintroduced the mention of God and faith into public discourse.
3. Handled himself with enormous courage, dignity, grace, determination, and leadership in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 hijackings and anthrax attacks. He almost single-handedly held this country together during those searing days:

Just three days after the attacks, in his address at the National Cathedral, the President reassured the nation when he said: "War has been waged against us by stealth and deceit and murder. This nation is peaceful, but fierce when stirred to anger. This conflict was begun on the timing and terms of others. It will end in a way, and at an hour, of our choosing."

On Friday, September 14, 2001, President Bush visited Ground Zero. Standing on a crushed and burned fire engine atop the smoldering pile at Ground Zero, he put his arm around a retired firefighter who had volunteered to help, and began speaking to the crowd. Rescue workers shouted that they could not hear him. Someone handed him a small American flag and bullhorn. The President spontaneously shouted: "I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon." The crowd roared with cheers and chants of "USA! USA! USA!" Then he raised that American flag and rallied a nation.

Education & Employment Training

1. Signed the No Child Left Behind Act, delivering the most dramatic education reforms in a generation (challenging the soft bigotry of low expectations). The very liberal California Teachers union is currently running radio ads against the accountability provisions of this Act.
2. Announced "Jobs for the 21st Century," a comprehensive plan to better prepare workers for jobs in the new millennium by strengthening post-secondary education and job training, and by improving high school education.
3. Is working to provide vouchers to low-income students in persistently failing schools to help with costs of attending private schools. (Blocked in the Senate.)
4. Requires annual reading and math tests in grades three through eight.
5. Requires states to participate in the National Assessment of Education Progress, or an equivalent program, to establish a national benchmark for academic performance.
6. Requires school-by-school accountability report cards.
7. Established a $2.4 billion fund to help states implement teacher accountability systems.
8. Increased funding for the Troops-to-Teachers program, which recruits former military personnel to become teachers.

Environment & Energy

1. Killed the Kyoto Global Warming Treaty.
2. Submitted a comprehensive Energy Plan (awaits Congressional action). The plan works to develop cleaner technology, produce more natural gas here at home, make America less dependent on foreign sources of energy, improve national grid, etc.
3. Established a $10 million grant program to promote private conservation initiatives.
4. Significantly eased field-testing controls of genetically engineered crops.
5. Changed parts of the Forestry Management Act to allow necessary cleanup of the national forests in order to reduce fire danger.
6. Part of national forests cleanup: Restricted judicial challenges (based on the Endangered Species Act and other challenges), and removed the need for an Environmental Impact Statement before removing fuels/logging to reduce fire danger.
7. Killed Clinton's CO2 rules that were choking off all of the electricity surplus to California.
8. Provided matching grants for state programs that help private landowners protect rare species.
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Hortlund on August 09, 2004, 10:02:22 AM
Quote


Defense & Foreign Policy

1. Successfully executed two wars in the aftermath of 9/11/01: Afghanistan and Iraq. 50 million people who had lived under tyrannical regimes now live in freedom.
2. Saddam Hussein is now in prison. His two murderous sons are dead. All but a handful of the regime's senior members were killed or captured.
3. Leader by leader and member by member, al Maida is being hunted down in dozens of countries around the world. Of the senior al Qaeda leaders, operational managers, and key facilitators the U.S. Government has been tracking, nearly two-thirds have been taken into custody or killed. The detentions or deaths of senior al Qaeda leaders, including Khalid Shaykh Muhammad, the mastermind of 9/11, and Muhammad Atef, Osama bin Laden's second-in-command until his death in late 2001, have been important in the War on Terror.
4. Disarmed Libya of its chemical, nuclear and biological WMD's without bribes or bloodshed.
5. Continues to execute the War On Terror, getting worldwide cooperation to track funds/terrorists. Has cut off much of the terrorists' funding, and captured or killed many key leaders of the al Qaeda network.
6. Initiated a comprehensive review of our military, which was completed just prior to 9/11/01, and which accurately reported that ASYMMETRICAL WARFARE capabilities were critical in the 21st Century.
7. Killed the old US/Soviet Union ABM Treaty that was preventing the U.S. from deploying our ABM defenses.
8. Has been one of the strongest, if not THE strongest friend Israel has ever hand in the U.S. presidency.
9. Part of the coalition for an Israeli/Palestinian "Roadmap to Peace," along with Great Britain, Russia and the EU.
10. Pushed through THREE raises for our military. Increased military pay by more than $1 billion a year.
11. Signed the LARGEST nuclear arms reduction in world history with Russia.
12. Started withdrawing our troops from Bosnia, and has announced withdrawal of our troops from Germany and the Korean DMZ.
13. Prohibited putting U.S. troops under U.N. command.
14. Paid back UN dues only in return for reforms and reduction of U.S. share of the costs.
15. Earmarked at least 20 percent of the Defense procurement budget for next-generation weaponry.
16. Increased defense research and development spending by at least $20 billion from fiscal 2002 to 2006.
17. Ordered a comprehensive review of military weapons and strategy.
18. Ordered a review of overseas deployments.
19. Ordered renovation of military housing. The military has already upgraded about 10 percent of its inventory and expects to modernize 76,000 additional homes this year.
20. Is working to tighten restrictions on military-technology exports.
21. Brought back our EP-3 intel plane and crew from China without any bribes or bloodshed.

Globalization & Internationalism

1. Challenged the United Nations to live up to their responsibilities and not become another League of Nations (in other words, showed the UN to be completely irrelevant).
2. Killed U.S. involvement in the International Criminal Court.
3. Told the United Nations we weren't interested in their plans for gun control (i.e., the International Ban on Small Arms Trafficking Treaty).*
4. The only President since the founding of the UN to essentially tell that organization it is irrelevant. He said: "The conduct of the Iraqi regime is a threat to the authority of the United Nations, and a threat to peace. Iraq has answered a decade of UN demands with a decade of defiance. All the world now faces a test, and the United Nations a difficult and defining moment. Are Security Council resolutions to be honored and enforced, or cast aside without consequence? Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding, or will it be irrelevant?" We all know the outcome and the answer.
5. Told the Congress and the world, "America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country."

Government Reform

1. Improved government efficiency by putting hundreds of thousands of jobs put up for bid. This weakens public-sector unions and cuts undeserved pay raises.
2. Initiated review of all federal agencies with the goal of eliminating federal jobs (completed September 2003) in an effort to reduce the size of the federal government while increasing private sector jobs.
3. Led the most extensive reorganization the Federal bureaucracy in over 50 years: After 9/11, condensed 20+ overlapping agencies and their intelligence sectors into one agency, the Department of Homeland Security.*
4. Ordered each agency to draft a five-year plan to restructure itself, with fewer managers.
5. Converted federal service contracts to performance-based contracts wherever possible so that the contractor has measurable performance goals.

Health

1. Strengthen the National Health Service Corps to put more physicians in the neediest areas, and make its scholarship funds tax-free.
2. Double the research budget of the National Institutes of Health.
3. Signed Medicare Reform, which includes:

A 10-year privatization option.

Prescription drug benefits: Prior to this reform, Medicare paid for extended hospital stays for ulcer surgery, for example, at a cost of about $28,000 per patient. Yet Medicare would not pay for the drugs that eliminate the cause of most ulcers, drugs that cost about $500 a year. Now, drug coverage under Medicare will allow seniors to replace more expensive surgeries and hospitalizations with less expensive prescription medicine.

More health care choices: As President Bush stated, "…when seniors have the ability to make choices, health care plans within Medicare will have to compete for their business by offering higher quality service [at lower cost]. For the seniors of America, more choices and more control will mean better health care. These are the kinds of health care options we give to the members of Congress and federal employees. What's good for members of Congress is also good for seniors.



Homeland Security, Border Enforcement & Immigration

1. *See Government Reform above. Under President Bush's leadership, America has made an unprecedented commitment to homeland security.
2. Has CONSTRUCTION in process on the first 10 ABM silos in Alaska so that America will have a defense against North Korean nukes. Has ordered national and theater ballistic missile defenses to be deployed by 2004.
3. Announced a 9.7% increase in government-wide homeland security funding in his FY 2005 budget, nearly tripling the FY 2001 levels (excluding the Department of Defense and Project BioShield).
4. Before DHS was created, there were inspectors from three different agencies of the Federal Government and Border Patrol officers protecting our borders. Through DHS, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) now consolidates all border activities into a single agency to create "one face at the border." This not only better secures the borders of the United States, but it also eliminates many of the inefficiencies that occurred under the old system. With over 18,000 CBP inspectors and 11,000 Border Patrol agents, CBP has 29,000 uniformed officers on our borders.
5. The Border Patrol is continuing installation of monitoring devices along the borders to detect illegal activity.
6. Launched Operation Tarmac to investigate businesses and workers in the secure areas of domestic airports and ensure immigration law compliance. Since 9/11, DHS has audited 3,640 businesses, examined 259,037 employee records, arrested 1,030 unauthorized workers, and participated in the criminal indictment of 774 individuals.
7. Since September 11, 2001, the Coast Guard has conducted more than 124,000 port security patrols, 13,000 air patrols, boarded more than 92,000 vessels, interdicted over 14,000 individuals attempting to enter the United States illegally, and created and maintained more than 90 Maritime Security Zones.
8. Announced the Student and Exchange Visitor Information System (SEVIS), an internet-based system that is improving America's ability to track and monitor foreign students and exchange visitors. Over 870,000 students are registered in SEVIS. Of 285 completed field investigations, 71 aliens were arrested.
9. This week, the US-VISIT program began to digitally collect biometric identifiers to record the entry and exit of aliens who travel into the U.S on a visa. Together with the standard information, this new program will confirm compliance with visa and immigration policies.
10. Eliminated INS bureaucratic redundancies and lack of accountability.
11. Split the Immigration and Naturalization Service into two agencies: one to protect the border and interior, the other to deal with naturalization.
12. Signed the workplace verification bill to prevent hiring of illegal aliens.
13. Established a six-month deadline for processing immigration applications.
14. Information regarding nearly 100% of all containerized cargo is carefully screened by DHS before it arrives in the United States. Higher risk shipments are physically inspected for terrorist weapons and contraband prior to being released from the port of entry. Advanced technologies are being deployed to identify warning signs of chemical, biological, or radiological attacks. Since September 11, 2001, hundreds of thousands of first responders across America have been trained to recognize and respond to the effects of a WMD attack.
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Hortlund on August 09, 2004, 10:03:15 AM
Quote


Judiciary & Tort Reform

1. Is urging federal liability reform to eliminate frivolous lawsuits.
2. Killed the liberal ABA's unconstitutional role in vetting federal judges. The Senate is supposed to advise and consent, not the ABA.
3. Is nominating strong, conservative judges to the judiciary.
4. Supports class action reform bill which limits lawyer fees so that more settlement money goes to victims.

Politics

1. His leadership resulted in Republican gains in the House and Senate, solidifying Republican control of both houses of Congress and the presidency.
2. Signed an EO enforcing the Supreme Court's Beck decision regarding union dues being used for political campaigns against individual's wishes.

Second Amendment

1. Ordered Attorney General Ashcroft to formally notify the Supreme Court that the OFFICIAL U.S. government position on the 2nd Amendment is that it supports INDIVIDUAL rights to own firearms, and is NOT a Leftist-imagined "collective" right.
2. Signed TWO bills into law that arm our pilots with handguns in the cockpit.
3. Currently pushing for full immunity from lawsuits for our national gun manufacturers.
4. *See Globalization & Internationalism.

Traditional Values, Compassion & Volunteerism

1. Endorses and promotes "The Responsibility Era." President Bush often speaks of the necessity of personal responsibility and civic volunteerism. He said, "In a compassionate society, people respect one another and take responsibility for the decisions they make in life. My hope is to change the culture from one that has said, if it feels good, do it; if you've got a problem, blame somebody else — to one in which every single American understands that he or she is responsible for the decisions that you make; you're responsible for loving your children with all your heart and all your soul; you're responsible for being involved with the quality of the education of your children; you're responsible for making sure the community in which you live is safe; you're responsible for loving your neighbor, just like you would like to be loved yourself."
2. Started the USA Freedom Corps, the most comprehensive clearinghouse of volunteer opportunities ever offered. For the first time in history, Americans can enter geographic information about where they want to get involved, such as state or zip code, as well as areas of interest ranging from education to the environment, and they can access volunteer opportunities offered by more than 50,000 organizations across the country and around the world.
3. Established the The White House Office and the Centers for the Faith-Based and Community Initiative — located in seven Federal agencies. The faith-based initiative supports the essential work of these important organizations. The goal is to make sure that grassroots leaders can compete on an equal footing for federal dollars, receive greater private support, and face fewer bureaucratic barriers. Work focuses on at-risk youth, ex-offenders, the homeless and hungry, substance abusers, those with HIV/AIDS, and welfare-to-work families.
4. The White House released a guidebook fully describing the Administration's belief that faith-based groups have a Constitutionally-protected right to maintain their religious identity through hiring — even when Federal funds are involved.
5. Issued an EO implementing the Supreme Court's Olmstead ruling, which requires moving disabled people from institutions to community-based facilities when possible.
6. Increased funding for low-interest loan programs to help people with disabilities purchase devices to assist them.
7. Revised the Department of Housing and Urban Development's Section 8 rent subsidies to disabled people, permitting them to use up to a year's worth of vouchers to finance down payments on homes. HUD has started pilot programs in 11 states.
8. Committed US funds to purchase medicine for millions of men, women and children now suffering with AIDS in Africa.
9. Heeding the words of our own Declaration of Independence, the president laid out the non-negotiable demands of human dignity for all people everywhere. On January 29, 2002, he said, "No nation owns these aspirations, and no nation is exempt from them. We have no intention of imposing our culture. But America will always stand firm for the non-negotiable demands of human dignity." As stated by the President, they are a virtual manifesto of conservative principles:
Equal Justice
Freedom of Speech
Limited Government Power
Private Property Rights
Religious Tolerance
Respect for Women
Rule of Law


You may now list Kerrys accomplishments, SIR. Here let me help you out to get started

1. Reccomended himself for a Purple Heart after a self-inflicted wound.
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Eagler on August 09, 2004, 10:04:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
I am refering to Eaglar posting the same stuff over and over again... and using words like "POTUS" ... Tom Clancy wanabe...


?

just to lazy to write out "President of the United States" each time :)

sorry if I bore with the facts,nothing Clancy about it
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Sixpence on August 09, 2004, 11:02:59 AM
9. Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals.

:rofl
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Sixpence on August 09, 2004, 11:15:54 AM
Economy: A Record Deficit
THE BUSH administration announced last week its revised figure for this year's budget deficit: $445 billion. This, or so the spin goes, is good news, because the original forecast was even higher -- $521 billion. But outside budget experts had warned that the forecast was inflated, which tarnishes any celebration of the new number. Not that the administration was deterred. "This improved budget outlook is the direct result of the strong economic growth the president's tax relief has fueled," crowed Office of Management and Budget Director Joshua B. Bolten.

Mr. Bolten's argument makes little sense: Economic growth has been no faster than the administration anticipated when it predicted the higher deficit. In any event, $445 billion marks the highest deficit ever (though the administration seems to be setting the stage for a new round of better-than-expected numbers just before Election Day). Only in the administration's upside-down economic world could a deficit $70 billion higher than last year's be hailed as progress.
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Ripper29 on August 09, 2004, 11:46:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
If you mean by Euro/Canadian obsession with Kerry then yes...


What'a a Euro/Canadian...is that anything like a Croatian/American  :p
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: GRUNHERZ on August 09, 2004, 11:51:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripper29
What'a a Euro/Canadian...is that anything like a Croatian/American  :p


No. I think that idea is represented with a "-" instead of a "/".  :)
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Fruda on August 09, 2004, 11:51:25 AM
Being in Sweden, I suppose it's easy to assume that G.W. Bush is a good president...

Wait a minute, wtf am I saying? You call those things "accomplishments"? And seriously, gay people marrying isn't going to ruin our country.

Oh, and tax cuts for the rich, let me repeat that, tax cuts for the rich, is very selfish, and shows that Bush does not know how to run a modern nation.

But, in his mind, all of "us" are evil-doers :rolleyes: .
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Saurdaukar on August 09, 2004, 11:52:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Jebus, I'll end this right now:

Bush's war record
 

Exactly, if this war record deal is the deciding factor for president - then you should not be allowed to vote.
-SW


Kerry is making his service (all 4 months of it) a campaign issue.

It will be scrutinized.  Why is this so difficult to understand for some people?  I mean... christ almightly... every thread is the same way:

"Look at what Kerry did in Vietnam."

"OMG LOOK AT WAT BOOSH DED IN ABALAMA!!!"

"Kerry's making it a campaign issue."

"OMG IRAQ IS A QUACKMIAR AND ITS JUS LIKE VEITNOM!!!"

If Kerry intends to continue to tout his military service as his greatest asset people will continue to examine it.  Shall we just take his word for it instead?  Perhaps that would be a viable solution, but Id sooner trust the viewpoint of a skinhead... at least I know he wont be changing his mind when I disagree with him.

Quote
Originally posted by Fruda
Being in Sweden, I suppose it's easy to assume that G.W. Bush is a good president...

Wait a minute, wtf am I saying? You call those things "accomplishments"? And seriously, gay people marrying isn't going to ruin our country.

Oh, and tax cuts for the rich, let me repeat that, tax cuts for the rich, is very selfish, and shows that Bush does not know how to run a modern nation.

But, in his mind, all of "us" are evil-doers :rolleyes: .



Show me these "tax cuts for the rich."  Rumor has it that the DNC is a biased news source... could be wrong, though.
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Fruda on August 09, 2004, 11:53:43 AM
By the way, Bush was against Globalization. He said so himself many times in the past.

Can you say "King of the Flip-Floppers"?
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on August 09, 2004, 11:58:44 AM
ZOOOMMM!!!!! The top of your head just got a shave Saur.
-SW
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: LePaul on August 09, 2004, 12:04:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Fruda

Oh, and tax cuts for the rich, let me repeat that, tax cuts for the rich, is very selfish, and shows that Bush does not know how to run a modern nation.

 


I earned $29k last year and got a tax cut...yea sure, I'm rich....
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Sixpence on August 09, 2004, 12:25:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by LePaul
I earned $29k last year and got a tax cut


But your tax burden increased, you will have to pay it sooner or later.
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: GRUNHERZ on August 09, 2004, 12:27:19 PM
Lets raise Taxes! Prosperity awaits!!!!!
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Sixpence on August 09, 2004, 12:29:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Lets raise Taxes! Prosperity awaits!!!!!


Your Pres already has, we will have to pay for the big government he has created
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: TweetyBird on August 09, 2004, 01:27:57 PM
"Baby you're a rich man too..."


>>WASHINGTON - The U.S. budget deficit hit a record $374.2 billion US in fiscal 2003, the U.S. Treasury Department said Monday.

The war in Iraq was one reason for the huge shortfall. But the general economic slowdown south of the border and a new round of tax cuts also played a role.


Economy likely central issue of 2004 presidential campaign
The new deficit figure is more than double the $157.8 billion US deficit the country recorded in fiscal 2002, and breaks the previous record deficit of $290 billion US, established in 1992 during the administration of George H.W. Bush. <<

He didn't cut your taxes - he refinanced them.

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/10/20/usbudget201003
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: GRUNHERZ on August 09, 2004, 01:30:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
Your Pres already has, we will have to pay for the big government he has created


So he cut taxes and he raised them.  Attending too many Kerry rallies, are you?
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Martlet on August 09, 2004, 01:31:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So he cut taxes and he raised them.  Attending too many Kerry rallies, are you?


HELP!  Moveon.org doesn't cover this in their talking points!  

Unfair question, ask another from the approved list!
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: LePaul on August 09, 2004, 02:16:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
HELP!  Moveon.org doesn't cover this in their talking points!  

Unfair question, ask another from the approved list!


Damn you....Pepsi snorted out thru my nose...

Good one!
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Hortlund on August 09, 2004, 02:34:47 PM
Quote

132 Cong.Rec. S3564-02
AMENDMENT NO. 1718
(Purpose: To restrict assistance to the Nicaraguan democratic resistance to humanitarian assistance, and for other purposes)

**************
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Massachusetts is recognized.

Mr. KERRY. Thank you, Mr. President...

[...]

Finally, President Nixon, 1970. "In cooperation with the armed forces of South Vietnam, attacks are being launched this week to clear out major enemy sanctuaries on the Cambodian-Vietnam border."

Mr. President, I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the President of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia.

I have that memory which is seared-seared-in me, that says to me, before we send another generation into harm's way we have a responsibility in the U.S. Senate to go the last step, to make the best effort possible in order to avoid that kind of conflict.

Mr. President, good intentions are not enough to keep us out of harms way.



Captain's Quarters has posted the letter from the Swift Boat Vets, her is the intro and the portion to do with the Christmas in Cambodia;

Quote

Dear Station Manager:

The purpose of this letter is to present some of the factual support for the advertisement "Any Questions?" produced and used by Swift Boat Veterans For Truth ("Swiftvets"), an organization properly registered under Internal Revenue Code § 527, and which has filed all required reports. Swiftvets is an organization led by Rear Admiral Roy Hoffmann, USN (retired), Commander of all Swift boats in Vietnam during the period of John Kerry's four-month abbreviated tour in Swift boats between late November 1968 and mid-March 1969. A list of the 254 members may be found on http://www.swiftvets.com. A large majority of those who served with John Kerry in Swift boats in Vietnam and whose location is known have joined the organization. Thus, for example, sixteen of the twenty-three surviving officers who served in Coastal Division 11 with Kerry (the place where Kerry spent most of his time) have joined the organization, together with most of Kerry's Vietnam commanders and 254 sailors from Coastal Squadron One, ranging from Vice-Admirals to Seamen.

The purpose of Swiftvets is to present the truth about John Kerry's post-Vietnam charges of war crimes and John Kerry's own Vietnam record. Swiftvets is uniquely positioned to do so since it includes most of the locatable sailors and officers who served with John Kerry in Vietnam.

John Kerry has made his Vietnam record the central focus of his presidential candidacy, depicting purported Vietnam events in nearly $100 million in advertising. Copies of ads such as "Lifetime" and "No Man Left Behind" may be found on Kerry's website. Kerry's authorized campaign biography, Tour of Duty: John Kerry and the Vietnam War, by Douglas Brinkley (New York: HarperCollins, 2004) ("Tour"), centers on his short Vietnam tour and contains Kerry's account of these events. Additional accounts by Kerry of his Vietnam experience may be found on his website...

[...]

C. Christmas In Cambodia

If there is a consistent[1] repeated story by John Kerry about his Vietnam experience, it is his story about how he and his boat spent Christmas Eve and Christmas of 1968 illegally present in Cambodia and, listening to President Nixon's contrary assurances, developed "a deep mistrust of U.S. government pronouncements." See Exhibit 24, Kranish book, p. 84. The point of his story was that his government and his commanders were lying about Kerry's presence in Cambodia on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. During a critical debate on the floor of the United States Senate on March 27, 1986, Senator John Kerry said:

Mr. President, I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the President of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia.

I have that memory which is seared -- seared -- in me . . . .

Exhibit 25, Congressional Record - Senate of March 27, 1986, page 3594.

By way of further example, Kerry wrote an article for the Boston Herald on October 14, 1979:

"I remember spending Christmas Eve of 1968 five miles across the Cambodian border being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating Christmas. The absurdity of almost killed by our own allies in a country in which President Nixon claimed there were no American troops was very real."

See Exhibit 26.

The Christmas in Cambodia story of John Kerry was repeated as recently as July 7, 2004 by Michael Kranish, a principal biographer of Kerry from The Boston Globe. On the Hannity & Colmes television show, Kranish indicated that Kerry's Christmas in Cambodia was a critical turning point in Kerry's life.

The story is a total preposterous fabrication by Kerry. Exhibit 8 is an affidavit by the Commander of the Swift boats in Vietnam, Admiral Roy Hoffmann, stating that Kerry's claim to be in Cambodia for Christmas Eve and Christmas of 1968 is a total lie. If necessary, similar affidavits are available from the entire chain of command. In reality, Kerry was at Sa Dec -- easily locatable on any map more than fifty miles from Cambodia. Kerry himself inadvertently admits that he was in Sa Dec for Christmas Eve and Christmas and not in Cambodia, as he had stated for so many years on the Senate Floor, in the newspapers, and elsewhere. Exhibit 27, Tour, pp. 213-219. Sa Dec is hardly "close" to the Cambodian border. In reality, far from being ordered secretly to Cambodia, Kerry spent a pleasant night at Sa Dec with "visions of sugar plums" dancing in his head. Exhibit 27, p. 219. At Sa Dec where the Swift boat patrol area ended, there were many miles of other boats (PBR's) leading to the Cambodian border. There were also gunboats on the border to prevent any crossing. If Kerry tried to get through, he would have been arrested. Obviously, Kerry has hardly been honest about his service in Vietnam.
[/b]

Things are starting to come apart for Mr Kerry now...
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Sandman on August 09, 2004, 02:47:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund

Things are starting to come apart for Mr Kerry now...


Hmmm... Too soon to tell... (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/polls/usatodaypolls.htm)
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Saurdaukar on August 09, 2004, 02:53:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
ZOOOMMM!!!!! The top of your head just got a shave Saur.
-SW


Nah - not quite.  Feel free to try and convince me, though.

Gonna need to do better than the typical "Well you just dont get it" retort if you expect to hold my attention.
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on August 09, 2004, 02:55:09 PM
You're right, it went too high to shave your hair.
-SW
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on August 09, 2004, 02:56:15 PM
Exactly, if this war record deal is the deciding factor for president - then you should not be allowed to vote.

Can't be any clearer.
-SW
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Saurdaukar on August 09, 2004, 03:01:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Exactly, if this war record deal is the deciding factor for president - then you should not be allowed to vote.

Can't be any clearer.
-SW


This is your justification for my haircut?

Based on this logic Kerry shouldnt be voting - let alone running for public office.
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Hortlund on August 09, 2004, 03:01:44 PM
20. Based on what you have heard or read, does John Kerry’s military service make you much more likely to vote for him, somewhat more likely, does it have no effect, does it make you somewhat less likely, (or does it make you) much less likely to vote for him?

                      Much more likely   Somewhat more likely   No effect    
Registered Voters  
2004 Jul 30-Aug 1   21   21   39  
2004 Jul 30-31   21   22   39  
2004 Jul 19-21   12   15   60  

National Adults  
2004 Jul 30-Aug 1   20   21   42  
2004 Jul 30-31   20   22   41  
2004 Jul 19-21   11   16   59  
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: slimm50 on August 09, 2004, 03:03:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
I am refering to Eaglar posting the same stuff over and over again... and using words like "POTUS" ... Tom Clancy wanabe...

Ah...ty. Was just a bit confused.
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Rude on August 09, 2004, 03:05:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
But your tax burden increased, you will have to pay it sooner or later.


That's either an uninformed statement or a lie....knowing you and your history here, I'll defer to the uninformed.
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on August 09, 2004, 03:09:22 PM
Yes it is.

Based upon your interpretation of my logic. Pointing out that I was talking about voters who are looking at one sides war record (or lack there of) as a huge reason to (not) vote for would be completely futile.


"Look at what Kerry did in Vietnam."

"OMG LOOK AT WAT BOOSH DED IN ABALAMA!!!"

"Kerry's making it a campaign issue."

"OMG IRAQ IS A QUACKMIAR AND ITS JUS LIKE VEITNOM!!!"


Portraying one side as a bunch of retards, and the other side as super calm massive IQ professors. This negates having any form of discussion and would result in what has already transpired in your follow up posts - you assume superiority based on nothing.
-SW
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Saurdaukar on August 09, 2004, 04:29:22 PM
Based on nothing?  No, sir.  I assume superiority because Im discussing this with you.  ;)
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Gunslinger on August 09, 2004, 04:45:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Jebus, I'll end this right now:

Bush's war record

Exactly, if this war record deal is the deciding factor for president - then you should not be allowed to vote.
-SW




 
(right back at ya)

Kerry's 20 year senate record
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hmmmm nothing to it???????

I know a guy who is a nam vet.  He once had a nice house and family but decided living on the streets is better.  He eats garbage and chits his pants quite regularly.

He saw combat in nam and he has a navy cross.  Does that qualify him to be president.

PS
I know this guy because I do volunteer work for a vetrans community
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Sixpence on August 10, 2004, 01:45:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
That's either an uninformed statement or a lie....knowing you and your history here, I'll defer to the uninformed.


The more debt you have the more tax dollars you spend on it. We already spend a billion dollars a day on our debt, and i'm not sure, but that may be just the interest.

here (http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/)
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: lazs2 on August 10, 2004, 09:37:41 AM
sixpense.. the thing about wars is... they eventually get paid for and the debt is erased.

The thing about liberal socialist programs is tha they cost more every year and are permenent.

lazs
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on August 10, 2004, 09:40:40 AM
Gunslinger, if the question is directed at me - then no, being a veteran does not make a president or even a worthwhile one. Kerry is worthless, fortunately I don't forsee him becoming president in January. Unfortunately, I think Bush will be president in January still.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't - thats why I'm going with the damn you both and not voting for either. A vegetable would be better, and it'd have a delicious administration.
-SW
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: storch on August 10, 2004, 09:47:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Coolridr
and futhermore. Someones experience from 30+ years ago hold no bearing on qualifications to run the military tody. WE DO NOTHING THE SAME as they did then. Besides the Pres. only tells his commanders what he wants and they choose the best wayy to execute it, and will let him know what the military can and can't do.


Really??? Allow me two words Lyndon Johnson!!!!  ;)
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Sixpence on August 10, 2004, 12:20:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
sixpense.. the thing about wars is... they eventually get paid for and the debt is erased.

The thing about liberal socialist programs is tha they cost more every year and are permenent.

lazs


You seem to be under the illusion that under Bush non military spending has not increased. Ask Rush Limbaugh.
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Hortlund on August 11, 2004, 11:34:39 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 I [Hugh Hewitt] interviewed Steve Gardner today. He served two tours in Vietnam, including two months and two weeks of John Kerry's swift boat service--on John Kerry's swift boat-- from November 1968 through January 1969:

HH: Mr. Gardner, welcome to the Hugh Hewittt Show, it is an honor to talk to you.

SG: I am glad to be here Hugh.

HH: Thanks for your service.

SG: Thank you again, I really appreciate you're allowing me to come aboard.

HH: Now let me start with some basics. I said you served two tours in Vietnam. Can you tell me what years those were?

SG: 1966 to 1967 and then in 1968 and 1969, when I served with Kerry.

HH: What months did you serve with Senator Kerry?

SG: November through January. Here's what I did. I served two months and two weeks of his four month, 12 day tour.

HH: Alright. Why did you leave off in january. What happened in January?

SG: That was my rotation time.

HH: OK. When you were on the boat, did you ever go into Cambodian waters?

SG: Absolutely not. That was a physical impossibility to go inside Cambodian waters.

HH; Why?

SG: They had four or five, at all times, boats, plus they had it wired with wire, they had concrete pylons down so that thee only time they could get through it was at high tide, and that was just so the sampans and the people that trafficked back and forth could get through.

HH: Now you served with him on Christmas Eve 1968, correct?

SG: That is correct.

HH: What did you do on Christmas Eve 1968?

SG: Well, I damn sure wasn't in Cambodia, I'll tell you that.

HH: (Laughter) Do you remember?

SG: We were basically just down in the lower part of the Sa Dec. just patrolling.

HH: All right. Were you looking for Bob Hope that night?

SG: No, (laughter) this was just how bad this guy is. People get a whiff of this and get a hold of it. Because you are just getting the edge of what drives John Kerry.

HH: What is that Steve Gardner?

SG: He is an opportunist, number one. But he is a self-seeking opportunist who used the laws that were designed to help the honest men who were over there in Vietnam who had gotten wounded three times to get them back out of it. He knew the rules well, and he used that to get out of there early.

HH: Last night on the Daily Show on Comedy Central, Jon Stewart, the host, said this about the book that is coming about by John O'Neill: There are powerful indictments, or rather it would be had any of those guys served on Kerry's boat,. By saying 'with him' they mean they were in Vietnam at the same time. Kind of the same way Snoopy served with the Red Baron. How do you respond to that?

SG: Well, on any movement we would do, we are talking four or five boats going in on an engagement, we were always within 50 or 75 yards of each other. And to be perfectly honest about it, if you were to look at an overview, if your were looking for an overview of a situation, you were better off being on another boat and looking at the rest of the other boats.

HH: OK, well put. Now, Steve Gardner, John Kerry has also been discovered to have been telling a story that he took a CIA man at least one CIA man into Cambodia and that he kept his hat. When you were on the boat with John Kerry, for your two months and two weeks of the tour that he served, did you ever have a CIA man on board?

SG: Number one, no.

HH: Did you ever take anyone to Cambodia and drop them off?

SG: Categorically no.

HH: Did you get near Cambodia and drop anybody off?

SG: The closest we can get to Cambodia, and that's a long swim, is 50 miles.

HH: Alright. Let me ask you about other people on the boat. Could John Kerry have just misunderstood someone on the boat was CIA when it wasn't CIA? Did you ever have any strangers on the boat?

SG: Nope. We always would have an interpreter, or something like that with us, or we would take others and take them in to areas in the Mekong Delta where they would be doing surveillance, but never did we have anybody that we would take close or could take close to Cambodia.

HH: Is it possible that you would drop them off a few miles away from Cambodia and they would walk in?''

SG: Fifty miles away is a long walk, let me tell you.

HH: If such a mission had been undertaken, would it have been undertaken by a swift boat?

SG: Nope.

HH: What kind of boat would it have been undertaken by?

SG: If something was going to be done, it would have had to have been done by a PBR.

HH: What's a PBR?

SG: That's one of the smaller boats that they used in Vietnam, that were water driven motors.

HH: When you read these stories about John Kerry and his CIA agents, how do you react? Does he believe it himself, do you think?

SG: No. It is laughable. John Kerry, number one, we were never, we were never made privy to anything. Even if that were so, even if there was some reason to believe that that had transpired, we would not have been made privy to that.

HH: You mean that John Kerry wouldn't have known who was on the boat?

SG: Number one, no. That would have been such a top secret operation, and a positioning, that that guy would have killed himself before he told anybody he was going to Cambodia. It didn't happen. Like I said, to get into Cambodia, you were over 50 miles away from the border.

HH: Is that the closest you think you came, 50 miles?

SG: I know it is, categorically. You couldn't go any farther.

HH: Could it have happened once you left the boat?

SG: No, you still couldn't get through that same creek.

HH: Will any of the guys who have endorsed John Kerry, who served on the boat with you, will they back him up on the CIA agent story, or the Christmas Eve story?

HH: Well they can't now.

HH; Why?

SG: Well they all know that that didn't transpire. John Kerry has already said that from what I understand.

HH: What he said, eh, what his staff has been saying is that they think he said he was close to Cambodia, but not in it, but in 1986 he stood on the floor of the Senate and said he was in Cambodia.

SG: That's correct, and that's an absolute categorical lie.
Title: dems - your POTUS
Post by: Hortlund on August 11, 2004, 11:56:12 AM
Quote

If Kerry’s story is a lie, it’s significant, but not because we have a gotcha moment – gee, a politician reworked the truth to his advantage, big surprise. This is much larger than that. This is like Bush insisting that he flew an intercept mission with the Texas Air National Guard to repel Soviet bombers based in Cuba, and later stating that this event was “seared in his memory – seared” because it taught him the necessity of standing up against evil governments, such as the ones we face today. In other words, it would not only be a lie, but one that eroded the political persona he was relying upon in the election. Kerry has made Vietnam central to his campaign. If he’s making crap up, it matters. But the story of the CIA agent he ferried into the Heart of Darkness gives the gotcha a curious twist; as lawyers say on TV courtroom dramas, it goes to state of mind. What sort of man bedecked with genuine decorations feels compelled to manufacture a story like this one?
Title: it doesn't matter
Post by: Eagler on August 11, 2004, 12:56:33 PM
ABB for the dumbacrats - they give a rats arse who or what they put in their Oral office as long as Bush is forced out ...

they'd vote Charles Mason in if he was sure to beat Bush, they have zero concern  for this country's security - think their nutbag will be able to reason with the ME nutbags...

have never seen such outright blind hatred

all the more reason for me to vote to keep him in

LANDSLIDE BUSH!!!