Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kweassa on August 09, 2004, 10:31:18 AM
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I've been seeing a lot of people complaining that the acks are immune to the 50cals... Of course, they are not really immune, but need constant firing of some 200~300 rounds to kill.
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Now, I've theorized that this was neither a bug, nor something having to do with 50cals, but simply a matter of aiming and convergence - most of the 50cal armed planes are wing-mounted. As discussed in some gunnery threads, the difference between center line armament and wing-armament is much more profound in AH2.
Acks are very small targets. And in a few runs against them I've come to feel that no matter how much I strafe the ack, none of what I've fired is actually hitting the target area itself.
Hitting a target that small with planes with guns mounted in the wings, means that there's really only one range, one distance where the guns could bear and get an accurate hit on it.
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Then that would mean that 50cals armed at centerline should be easier to kill acks with.
I've tested my theory with the SBD with 2x50cals at the nose. The result was as I assumed, and the ack was destroyed very easily.
As long as the 50cal hits the ack, it goes down.
The results people have been seeing - particularly most often seen when CV-based Corsairs attack an airfield - is a combined result of;
1) bad aim
2) natural disadvantage of the weapon itself
3) natural disadvantage of the weapons mounting.
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But that got me thinking again.
Then shouldn't the same thing apply to planes with wing-armed cannons?
The Fw190 has cannons mounted at the wingroots.. but what about planes with cannons mounted at the outboard of the wing? Such as the Spitfire? Or the Bf109E-4?
So I've tested it out.
A cannon is much more powerful than a HMG round, but it's slower in RoF and worse in trajectory - which means also harder to aim and expect hits... especially when
But every single pass of the attack the acks were going down very easily.
While testing the 50cals on the SBD out, I noticed that I need exact hits on the ack-gun itself to kill it. But when testing planes with outboard cannons - which should suffer from same convergence issues - I realized that I was destroying acks which I think my fired shots did not land on.
So, again I tried another test. I flew a Bf109E-4 with convergence set to 250 yards, and headed for a gun emplacement. At the very last moment, almost as if I'd collide, I fired my cannons. I assumed that at that distance, the cannons cannot hit the target ack-gun due to convergence.
Just as I thought, my fired cannon rounds did not hit the ack. It landed very near, but did not directly strike the ack.... but I was able to kill it.
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So, to make a long story short...
does the cannons in AH have HE blast effect when it strikes the ground???
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To make a short answer short... yes.
Get right up against a hangar and fire your cannons, you'll kill yourself.
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Ack ... hard to kill ... why ?
Well, its harder to see than before. No more 1K+ ack kills that I can attest to.
You need to hit the gun and not the pad that it sits on. AH I, you just need to gun the pad.
Has anybody established or asked HT if they upped the durability of ack ? I know that it was a suggestion in a couple of threads. It appears that it takes more than just a couple of .50 cal rounds to kill it.
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yes blast is true
take a YAK-T and go vulch a field wait for a plane to up then fire 1 37mm right next to him
kills them all the time even without hitting them
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I've looked it up in the help files Slap. The ack guns are required at 100lbs to kill. I dunno what it was in AH1, though..
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I still dont understand... if you take a fricken 20mm blast it a few times and a couple land on it - it could possibly damage the gun, correct? So why would you need to kill the ack for it to stop firing?
Ah ha! Because HTC is not able to code it? Wrong
Because HTC is just too lazy to code it.
They have already modelled the guns on the planes to become damaged/off or undamaged/on.
Why cant they do the same for ack guns? :confused:
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Congrats Mak333: Belive your the first person to call me lazy in the last 20 years.
Im not even sure what your asking for.
As to the other questions.
Acks were doubled in hardness From AH1.
The resone 50's are harder than cannon rounds, is cannons can do damage with blast radius, 50's must hit the ack itself.
HiTech
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Thanks for the confirmation HT!!
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Originally posted by hitech
The resone 50's are harder than cannon rounds, is cannons can do damage with blast radius, 50's must hit the ack itself.
Add up the clutter/dirt of ground strikes, wing vibrations, convergence issues, and a fast-approaching ground...taking out an ack with one pass of 6 @ .50s is quite possible but nowhere near as easy as it used to be
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model the guy crapping his pants and to scared too pull the trigger. it's kinda like not being able to make bloody confetti out of the tool in the open turret of the flak panzer.
WE NEED GIBBING!!
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And remember, P-47's would attack Panzers at about 75 feet off the ground (sometimes not even 50). If enough 50cal shots hit a Panzer, it will be disabled, or even destroyed (lucky fuel line hit I guess).
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Is it NOT true that HTC has decreased the "hit radius" of certain targets? This is good IMO but I just wanted to hear it from the Boss!!!
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Is there any reason NOT to surround the Acks with a "sandbag wall" etc, designed to protect the ack crew?
They are very hard to see in ah2 especially with the textures floating in & out.
Yak9T is now the king of deacking bases.
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Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
Is it NOT true that HTC has decreased the "hit radius" of certain targets? This is good IMO but I just wanted to hear it from the Boss!!!
No ... that not true ... to a certain extent.
It's not "hit radius" or "hit bubble" which implies an area that does not contain the physical plane itself.
What Pyro said was the "hit resolution" in AH II is much more finely defined than it was in AH I. The planes in AH II are using finer pixelization to render the plane. This was not the case in AH I.
Think of it this way ...
OOOOOOOOO <- Wing in AH I (technology before)
ooooooooooo < - Wing in AH II (technology after)
See the difference ... the bottom one is more defined, so it it now harder to actually get the bullets on target. Where we were getting hits in AH I before, they now fly over and under the wing in AH II.
Soooo ... In both AH I and AH II, you still have to actually hit the plane, not some extraneuoulsy defined area.