Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Steve on August 09, 2004, 03:53:04 PM

Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: Steve on August 09, 2004, 03:53:04 PM
NAJAF, Iraq - As a radical Shiite cleric vowed Monday that his troops would fight to the death, U.S. Marines took back control of two Iraqi provinces from multinational forces after only 10 days because of the worsening security situation, the Polish military said.

ROFL  what a joke it would become.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5455104/
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: muckmaw on August 09, 2004, 06:07:53 PM
Poland pulled out and handed their sector over to the US.
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: Steve on August 09, 2004, 06:10:52 PM
My source says "multinational"
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: Gh0stFT on August 09, 2004, 07:45:25 PM
aah now blaming the forces who trying to help you in Iraq,
because the situation there is more then f***** up ?

LOL good one!
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: senna on August 09, 2004, 07:46:35 PM
Sounds like Iraq just needs more Marines.

:aok
Title: Re: Bring in the UN!
Post by: -MZ- on August 09, 2004, 07:50:06 PM
Maybe we should have bought better allies.
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: muckmaw on August 09, 2004, 08:51:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gh0stFT
aah now blaming the forces who trying to help you in Iraq,
because the situation there is more then f***** up ?

LOL good one!


Dont think I blamed anyone..just stated what I read.
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: Steve on August 10, 2004, 12:28:21 AM
Quote
aah now blaming the forces who trying to help you in Iraq,


huh?

My point was that many people are clamoring for the UN to step into Iraq.  My example sites why I think the UN would be/is impotent.


Blaming??  huh?
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: Stang on August 10, 2004, 12:30:16 AM
Steve, screw the UN, just log in the MA and fly dangit!
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: fd ski on August 10, 2004, 01:07:35 AM
1) there isn't a single mention of UN in whole article.

2) US Command movies in and out of the sectors of Multinational division  as it sees fits. Somehow they figured ( rightly so ) that getting 10 soldiers from each country killed in street fighting, where they were invited to participate in "policing", would cause their withdrawal. Hence, they took back the position themselves.
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: fd ski on August 10, 2004, 01:08:51 AM
oh yeah, one more thing. Elections coming up soon, those guys are coming home..
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: ramzey on August 10, 2004, 01:27:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
My source says "multinational"


yes , poles lead in this sector and under polish commmand stay small forces of other nations

remember, we came there to support  US, not with UN
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: bikekil on August 10, 2004, 02:45:27 AM
Actually bringing in a UN could help... but if you ask me, it won't give you any progress over there.
UN won't be hunting down the fanatics. They are good for the "peacekeeping" missions, but to keep the peace you should have it first.

It's a good thing that US forces took controll over that provinces.
Look at the situation, Poles could send there our folks or some other poor guys from another countries. Because sending there others, would be pretty coward we would most likely had to go there ourselves, but then, our regular army it's not experienced and trained in this kind of street fights, so most likely we'd lost a lot of folks and the situation would get worse over there in the same time.
Then, it's a shame that none of our "special" forces is not supporting US there (or it is, but we don't know it, like heppened before) and  some of our regular forces are not a part of the operations. As much as i can understand lack or experience as a reason to move out, i can't see a reason to keep going in a novice mode all the time.

Sanding there our guys and being an officiall supported of the US should also mean that we are taking the responsibility for some part of it and we are not running home like a girls.
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: bikekil on August 10, 2004, 04:30:24 AM
from our news:

George Casey made the decision about taking controll by US forces in those two provinces. It was caused by the fact, that Poles are there with a "stabilizing" mission that is not presume a offensive military actions.

Dunno what's the deal and how they agreed on things before... that is what i've heard in the news.
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: Steve on August 10, 2004, 06:11:58 AM
Quote
there isn't a single mention of UN in whole article.



Who said there was?  The UN is a multinational force.  The poles were leading a multinational force. Hence the parallel.  I'll try to be more exact since you seem unable to reach apparently obvious conclusions without being dragged along.

They were not equipped/trained to deal with the escalating problem.... the same excuse the UN as a multinational force would use.....impotent.

Are you unaware if the UN's military disasters and incompetence?  If you like, when I am feeling ambitious, I'll give you some info.
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: Hortlund on August 10, 2004, 06:20:23 AM
The only reason they are regrouping in the area is because the ROE for the Poles (peacekeeping) is different from what is needed in the area now.

Which is why they are sending in the Marines with their ROE (presumably search and destroy)
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: fd ski on August 10, 2004, 06:29:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
Who said there was?  The UN is a multinational force.  The poles were leading a multinational force. Hence the parallel.  I'll try to be more exact since you seem unable to reach apparently obvious conclusions without being dragged along.


Me and boroda drinking beer together consitute UN force by that defintion as well. UN = UNITED NATIONS. Force from UN would be wearing blue ****ing hats and serving under its signs and all the bells and whitles.

Force in Iraq is "coalition of the willing" or should I say "coalition who were promised the spoils". Has nothing to do with UN.

Quote

They were not equipped/trained to deal with the escalating problem.... the same excuse the UN as a multinational force would use.....impotent.


They were not send to Iraq for war. Didn't you see "Mission accomplished" show onboard the CV ?
They are a light force send to police the place.
Where they allowed to go with tanks, planes and whole shibang, trust me, it wouldn't be a problem.

However, your SOD, in his genious, wanted a help with policing. So infantry with trucks loaded with sandbags is all he got.

Quote

Are you unaware if the UN's military disasters and incompetence?  If you like, when I am feeling ambitious, I'll give you some info.


Please do.

Then we can talk about US military disasters.

And you wonder why nobody on this f....g planet wants to help you ? You can piss all over someone while asking them to help you out, moron.
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: ramzey on August 10, 2004, 11:30:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
The only reason they are regrouping in the area is because the ROE for the Poles (peacekeeping) is different from what is needed in the area now.

Which is why they are sending in the Marines with their ROE (presumably search and destroy)


exacly

Fd popraw linka w twoim sig, prowadzi do jakiejs dziwnej strony
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: Boroda on August 10, 2004, 11:50:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ramzey
Fd popraw linka w twoim sig, prowadzi do jakiejs dziwnej strony


Did FD really came back to Poland?
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: ramzey on August 10, 2004, 12:38:37 PM
yeap, we did exchange ;)
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: Eagler on August 10, 2004, 12:41:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by fd ski
And you wonder why nobody on this f....g planet wants to help you ? You can piss all over someone while asking them to help you out, moron.


Sure they do .. just ask Kerry - LOL
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: Steve on August 10, 2004, 01:57:08 PM
Quote
You can piss all over someone while asking them to help you out, moron.


I have no idea what you are talking about, unless you are referring to the UN.  I'm not pissing all over anyone else, specifically your beloved Poles, who have been there with us from the beginning. Thank you Poland!
.  I'm saying, again, that the UN is impotent.


Moron?  plow you.

If you're ever in the southwest US, let me know.  i'll give you a chance to discuss this is person, assshole.
Title: HELP US OH ALLIES!!!!!
Post by: TalonX on August 10, 2004, 04:06:54 PM
Sorry.....  I still have to laugh...

We don't need anyone's help......this myth that we need France, Germany, et al more than they need our economy is a joke....  

Certainly, we don't need their pitiful military......   "Multinational" is a feel good term.

The United States is the world's only super power.

The United States is the first country in history that could rule the earth, and isn't trying.

The United States is the first country in the world that could take anything, anytime, anywhere, and isn't.

The United States has lost more souls than anyone else saving someone else's land.  In fact, the only land we've ever asked for was a small plot to bury those Americans not coming home.
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: fd ski on August 10, 2004, 04:57:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
I have no idea what you are talking about, unless you are referring to the UN.  I'm not pissing all over anyone else, specifically your beloved Poles, who have been there with us from the beginning. Thank you Poland!
.  I'm saying, again, that the UN is impotent.


Explain the logic behind this again ?
Non UN forces that were there for a policing action withdraw at orders of US general and it shows how impotent UN is.

You should really stay out of the sunshine...

Quote

Moron?  plow you.

If you're ever in the southwest US, let me know.  i'll give you a chance to discuss this is person, assshole.


I'm quivering in my panties in anticipation. Is that a promise ?

Hey, next time you post something really dumb and someone points it out you could like get their IP address and go find them and stuff !!!!


ramzey, dzieki. Dziwna rzecz, ktos moja domene zajebal.

Boroda, yes, i'm in warsaw those days. If you're by those days I have a bottle of vodka in the freezer waiting to be dealt a deathblow :D
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: Steve on August 10, 2004, 09:08:17 PM
"Explain the logic behind this again ?
Non UN forces that were there for a policing action withdraw at orders of US general and it shows how impotent UN is. "


the simile is beyond you... you're on your own.




Quote
I'm quivering in my panties in anticipation. Is that a promise


Sure... just post when you're around, we can get together and discuss it.  As for your IP and finding you.... I'm not that interested.
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: SLO on August 10, 2004, 09:36:26 PM
Steve I understand what you mean, But FD is correct too.

Don't forget, usually the UN is used as a  type of Police Force, not a Military type thing.

And Afganistan is doin well with the UN there, can it be improved upon, but of course.

And the Poles sent to Iraq do NOT represent the UN Flag of Nations, but the Coalition of the Willing.

Do not let your Patriotism blind you to the truth my friend, the UN is trying to satisfy Multiple Nations while the US is not. Its called Foreign Interests in your Country. Look at it this way, your country is tryin to satisfy ITSELF while the UN is tryin to satisfy MANY. Think Global my friend.:aok
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: Steve on August 10, 2004, 10:40:34 PM
Quote
And the Poles sent to Iraq do NOT represent the UN Flag of Nations, but the Coalition of the Willing.


I mentioned that they are a multinational force(the ones that had to be supported/replaced in an area), much like the UN.
In our case, it was not the Poles I was referring to specifically, they just happened to be leading the multinational  force. FD mistook this as a direct slight to his country, which he loves. I understand his ire, although it is misguided since I'm grateful to Poland for their support.

As a country, I believe the Poles are rightly with us and would be better off operating w/out the hassles of the "multinational" force.
I see how this might not be practical.. just a wish.


Quote
while the UN is tryin to satisfy MANY.



The UN is not, they are trying to thwart the U.S.  They throw endless paperwork at problems.. DO nothing to solve any, and are extremely corrupt.  France and Germany, etal, use this venue to forward their agendas while thwarting ours(which is right).
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: fd ski on August 11, 2004, 02:11:25 AM
OK i'll play nice now :D

Don't care if it had to do with Poland. I happend to carry double citizenship and served in US military, if you want a list of things that sucks in Poland, i think i can hit the max character number allowed by this board :)

I do however believe in UN and its mission.

No, they can't be compared to regular US military or any military. They weren't intended as a strike force per se. They are intended as a policing force, what goes with that is - light handed tactics, doing things very differently then marshall law type of general would. Some would call it "being soft", other would say "winning hearts and minds". That's a separate debate.

You stated that Polish troops would have less hussle if they weren't part of "multinational" force. Well, i doubt it. From the get go they were intended as a police force, and having few thousand other troops to back them up and bail them out is always good news. They aren't obliged by any standards other then those set by US military command under which they serve.


Returning to issue of UN.

I will concede that UN troops aren't usually nearly as effective as regular military could be. Part of it is the way they are structured ( no heavy air support, naval support, special forces per se ), part of it is their mission.

However, UN troops can make a claim to being objective. Something that US troops, no matter how effective they are, can't do in current political climate.
If natives of the country being pacified see the troops are objective peacekeepers, they approach it differently then "occupying" forces.

So say in Iraq, if place happends to be guarded by UN troops from say Columbia, while nutcases will still take potshots at them, local population is very unlikely to see Columbians as occupying power.
If it is US troops, they are facing nutcases and likely resentment of large part of local population.

This is why UN was devised. It isn't perfect, it doesn't work every time, but it does work.

Is that clearer ?
:D
Title: Bring in the UN!
Post by: bikekil on August 11, 2004, 03:50:36 AM
UN itself is a pretty good thing, however i agree with Stave in one thing for sure - UN is weak.

UN is trying to satisfy Multiple Nations - that's true.. it's pretty nice... but then, it;s a source of the weakness :) As we seen many times, what is good for one nation can be bad for the interests of others and opposite. That leads to the situation where one nations are voting "for" others "against" some others are veto-ing the whole thing.. and at the end, after some negotiations they are agreeing on something that is a "middle opption" and that sucks. Why? because the middle option is something with no balls.

I'm not trying to say that US is not needed, but they way it's designed is flawed.... them democrats ;)