Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: tweedy on January 17, 2000, 10:53:00 PM
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I come from AW3 FR where I currently pay $10 a month to fly. While I certainly feel I get my monies worth, I also never feel I "have to fly" or "put my time in" to get my monies worth. In the few times I've flown AH I can say I would switch from AW3. The graphics are better and the realism of actually piloting the aircraft is definately better. For these reasons I would switch.
However, If the price remains at $30 I don't think I would switch. I've heard some arguments about Warbirds pilots paying by the hour and spending on average $300 a month thus making AH a bargain. I have never flown Warbirds so I can't rate how it flys as a sim. I also hear guys saying how EZ it would be to "give up" something like a night out in order to afford the $30 fee. Well, if there's one thing I've learned, that is NEVER "give up" anything.
I gladly pay KESMAI the $10 monthly fee knowing full well that there will be months when I don't get to fly. I simply don't have the time to "live on the sim" like I see many of you do. (If I could I would !!)
My first night on AH I thought $15 would be a fee I'd gladly pay. After hearing a few comments online I guess I could come around to paying $20/month. AH is, if all its promises come true, worth $15 and maybe $20. I'm hoping HITECH is/will consider fee structures, reduced flat fees or wahtever else would fit. I would think more pilots would come over to AH from AW3 without having the sticker shock.
At any rate, that's what I think, so that's what I said.
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Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the subject.
As I have predicted, this conversation will get considerably more dicussed, recussed and of course, cussed, as the moment to stop grinnin and drop linen draws ever nearer.
Some will go, many more will stay and yet even more will wonder what all the fuss is about and give it a try.
I have no doubt that what we have now is worth the *reletively* cheap price and as things develope further it will be an even better bargain.
Yeager
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I think they are being smart by trying a pay system that hasn't been tried before to start off. If it doesn't work, they will change it.
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The problem is that comparisons have no meaning.
Its like saying:
I've been driving a Yugo for 3 years now. I've tried your Poche 911 and really like it. But I think you price is way too high compared to my Yugo. I know many other Yugo drivers that would switch if you sell your 911 at the same price. In any case, thanks for the test drive.
In the end, no matter how you slice it, you get the sim you pay for.
Regards,
Wab
[This message has been edited by AKWabbit (edited 01-18-2000).]
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I have avoided major discussion on this so far but I feel that since the thread is here I will post my feelings. These are just my ramblings and I am sure that I will be flamed for it but at least I can get it off my chest.
Do I like the game: Yes very much so. It is cutting edge, fun to play, and the community is awesome already.
Is the price worth it: This is the biggie.
I think it is all where you come from. Warbird flyers think it is great to have to pay 1 flat fee instead of near 500+ a month to play. Which is fine if you make good money or have a generous mom or dad. Some of us don't fit into that area and how we spend what free money we have is a challange.
Wal-mart is run on the philosophy that cheaper brings more customers, more customers brings more profit.
The arguement I see here from that is that a lower price brings in the "quakers". Sure you will get drive-by "gamer" but most will be turned away by the realism of the flight models. Most of those that do stay will become good members of the community. Others that stay will become thorns in the communities side, but there are those that will pay and still be pains. The best way to expand the Flight Sim world at this level of realism is to help mold new pilots with good habits. This community will excel at this I am sure.
What price boils down to is cost of development, server cost, maintanance cost, and level of profit. The more ppl that play the better the profit as long as enough play to cover the expenses each month. HTC has decided what to charge and I am sure all the whining and squeaking won't change that but I firmly believe that by a lower price and higher numbers of flyers that the game can grow faster. I see avg of 100 ppl in the game most of the time. Early morning maybe 30 though. These numbers will drop once it goes pay and will take some time to recover them. With the numbers we have a HA would be feasible and the "extra" scenerios could add to the profits.
Just is just some ramblings and a little long winded. I am undecided at this time if I will continue when it goes pay, I have to see if my budget can afford it. I know that the wife and daughter is looking forward to me spending some more time with them (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
If I can find the extra cash I would love to stay and fight and maybe I will a couple of months out of the year, medic school allowing.
S!
Flame away I put on my bunker gear (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
Rocket
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The Red Dragons
Fierce and Bold
With Honour and Courage
_______________________
www.reddragons.de
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Well AW3 and I'm sure Warbirds are NOT YUGO's. As for AH, well it's not even in production yet but has great preliminary promises. Comparisons will prevail. Pilots from Warbirds will be elated at teh reduction. Those from AW3 (and others) will be hanging on the fence. When I first joined AW3, I compared the $10 monthly fee to the $20 bucks a month I used to pay at Video arcades in the late 70's early 80's.(yeah I'm in my upper 30's). I can afford the $30 but the big *if* is will I have the time to spare to $spend$ my $30 worth.
P.S. GASP !!! Warbird pilots paid upwards of $500 /month !!!! Man I could get REAL flight experience in a WW2 trainer for $199 per half hour session !!!
Originally posted by AKWabbit:
The problem is that comparisons have no meaning.
Its like saying:
I've been driving a Yugo for 3 years now. I've tried your Poche 911 and really like it. But I think you price is way too high compared to my Yugo. I know many other Yugo drivers that would switch if you sell your 911 at the same price. In any case, thanks for the test drive.
In the end, no matter how you slice it, you get the sim you pay for.
Regards,
Wab
[This message has been edited by AKWabbit (edited 01-18-2000).]
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For my own part the game has to be more complete before im gonna pay for it.
/Mike
[This message has been edited by Micke (edited 01-18-2000).]
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I´m not that sure anymore, Pyro answered an question about multiple arenas in another thread.
The question was if AH will have an "Historical Arena" (No icons, correct matchups etc) and the answer to this was no "not on an regular basis".
I dont know the reasons for this, one can only speculate, it could be that HTC is going mainstream and targetting the "masses" with the quake style arena or it could djust be that they dont have another server to run the HA on.
Anyway i think i will wait untill there is an HA up 24/7 or untill the strat model is completed. Ive been furballing in the quake arenas for to many years now and i need something new to keep me interested.
// -nr-1-
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All,
I try not to get involved in threads like this, but I have seen the “PRICE” thread 20 or 30 times on the board in one form or another and said nothing, Till now I will add my simplistic way of thinking to it.
IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE PRICE THEN VERY SIMPLY DO NOT PAY IT,
AND QUIT squeakIN ABOUT IT !!
Just my two cents worth (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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!!! Heater !!!
Shit Happens All The Time
If you have any trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done."
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Ok. I wasnt going to either and ive been good with other threads but i feel like being bad.
Usually only the wife see's this side (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
$30.00.US is big dollars to the "Out country" layman pilot. The arguement is that the programmers or Sim Creators cannot amend prices for every single country outside their borders. I agree.
Nevertheless. Its a fact and one HTC will have to contend with.
WB pilots may flock in droves on price alone. I can understand that. AW pilots may also flock due to the programming of AH alone. I can understand that .
My arguement will be that the Flight Sim community is at best a small one. And small it is. Apart from HTC and a few others, smaller companies are gobbled up by the big names as Hasbro, Sierra etc.
Big companies means profit based programming to which the "Quaker" type games dominate in numbers and profit margin.
Games like Falcon 4, EAW, RB3 all go into the crap pile tho their potential was enormous for us who paid and flew them.
Being the beast that the Combat Flight Sim pilot is. Pilots of similar disposition flock in Squadrons and form circles of friends which gather in 1-3 sims on an average basis. The majority of pilots are considered in which Sim would support them all the best. Hence AW's popularity with the $10.00 flat rate.
AH with a flat rate is the right move. I wish more would follow and we could be given something close to what we have in front of us with AH. But profit beats the pilot.
HTC obviously love their sim and care about the community (customer base that fly it).
Its easy to see with the way they communicate to us even when fed up online and just want to fly. Its also smart business.
The arguement re pilot quantity re quality has more merit in my opinion on the quantity side. As stated above. There are only a select number in the Flight Sim community who want full realism. The others want the gamey fun sim. We demand something extra and fortunately have it. But theres also others afraid to try. Others who would put their hard earnt dollars in the HTC bank account if the price was right.
If the $30.00.US ($45-50.00AUS) was reduced to $10.00US. AH would then attract without doubt numbers from all over the world. Increased customer base. Increased stability, better promotion in the small but talkative Flight Sim community and it would drag in the AW, WB, EAW, Janes, MSCFS, FC, BoB etc etc crowd as nothing around it would be able to compete or come close.
No more international whining and a game that could only ever get bigger and better.
$30.00 US will restrict pilots in the majority to the US and to those outside with large bank accounts. That would be a shame. I can think of 30+ pilots right now now flying who would for the right price.
To say, as has been stated,
IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE PRICE THEN VERY SIMPLY DO NOT PAY IT, AND QUIT squeakIN ABOUT IT !![/b}
is about as useful as tits on a bull. Its not helpful to the sim or to the pilots who fly or wish to fly it.
The fact is that price will be an issue and an important one. We arent all lawyers, dentists and plumbers tho many of us work a damn sight harder for our dollar and whilst willing to part with it. Will do so generally for the best price.
I dont profess to know game costs etc and fiscal responsibilities re the making of a Sim. I understand the price is high and may be the motivation behind $30.US.
The arguement re International Monetary concerns is time honoured and one which has hit every Sim Ive flown in where you pay to play. Ive seen one sim company correct its inital stance on player costs due to the reaction recieved by the customer base and other reasons. Its saved the sim. At least for the time being. Im not saying the same is applicable with AH. Its a different market and a different product. Simply that we the more numerous section of the community outside US borders should be heard and our merits judged on sound fiscal basis. Ive no doubt HTC will do that. All we can do is offer our reasons re payment plans for the benefit of the Sim and us (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
HTC comes from the WB and AW enviroment as I understand it and are not ignorant of the customer base that lies outside that sphere.
All I say is its worth discussing and worth their consideration.
The world awaits.
(http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/markruth/skellogo2.jpg)
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SC-Sp00k
Sqn Ldr
SSC http://www.picknowl.com.au/homepages/oneshot/main.htm (http://www.picknowl.com.au/homepages/oneshot/main.htm)
**Its not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.**
Skeleton Crew
[This message has been edited by SC-Sp00k (edited 01-18-2000).]
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For those of you who dont think that the price is "set in stone" yet, you all better get ready for an dissapointment.
The same words that used to djustify the WB $2 an hour leech rate has been used by HT in AH : "If it aint worth 30$ for u then dont play" This is the same answer we all got some 3-4 years ago when arguing up and down about WB´s price scheme (except the amount that we argued about was different hehe).
The _only_ way the price is gonna change is if WB stuns the market with lets say an 20$ flat rate fee, or if Playnet releases their beta of WWIIOL.
Regards.
// -nr-1-
P.S For the record i still think 30$ is an splendid price (if you like Main arena quake style play that is)
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S! All
As I'm a poor European who have to pay : the phone bill (even for local call) , the ISP and finaly AH I've just do a little calcul (<>Compute?)...
If I subscribe to AH it would cost me about 1.5 box of EAW per month ! (provided that I would be able to not be online more than 20 hour/month and just playing AH)
To be quite alone online because of TimeZone différences ...
ARGG (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
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We all have to pay phonebills and ISP fare's.
A for 30$/month its ok for me, i spend lots more on junk/month.
So if i wanna pay AH ill just cut 50$ bucks of junk worth (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
/Mike
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Originally posted by tweedy:
I come from AW3 FR where I currently pay $10 a month to fly. While I certainly feel I get my monies worth, I also never feel I "have to fly" or "put my time in" to get my monies worth. In the few times I've flown AH I can say I would switch from AW3. The graphics are better and the realism of actually piloting the aircraft is definately better. For these reasons I would switch.
However, If the price remains at $30 I don't think I would switch. I've heard some arguments about Warbirds pilots paying by the hour and spending on average $300 a month thus making AH a bargain. I have never flown Warbirds so I can't rate how it flys as a sim. I also hear guys saying how EZ it would be to "give up" something like a night out in order to afford the $30 fee. Well, if there's one thing I've learned, that is NEVER "give up" anything.
I gladly pay KESMAI the $10 monthly fee knowing full well that there will be months when I don't get to fly. I simply don't have the time to "live on the sim" like I see many of you do. (If I could I would !!)
My first night on AH I thought $15 would be a fee I'd gladly pay. After hearing a few comments online I guess I could come around to paying $20/month. AH is, if all its promises come true, worth $15 and maybe $20. I'm hoping HITECH is/will consider fee structures, reduced flat fees or wahtever else would fit. I would think more pilots would come over to AH from AW3 without having the sticker shock.
At any rate, that's what I think, so that's what I said.
Agree. I have had a WB account since it came out of beta. AH is superior in many ways, and I don't doubt it will keep developing. However, I have many months that I don't fly over a couple of hours. It doesn't make sense to me to spend $30 every month, fly or not, however good the sim is. $20...yeah.
org
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I can never resist adding my two centavos to these threads.
AW3, at $9.95, is, er *was*, worth the price. FA II beats AW3 now at the same price. and that's not a compliment either (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif).
For me WB's was too expensive, although I did look longingly at all the features it has had for a few years that AW3 does not have...still.
It's a *very* long list of PRO's for AH in comparison to the Con's. The only Con that comes to mind is trim. I've handled that feature well enough that but it's still in my mind a 'gimmick'
I'll leave FM out of it altogther as I've never flown a real WWII aircraft and neither have 99% of the people here. Needless to say all a computer can do is strive to be replicate what the real thing was like. I enjoy *flying* in AW3 almost as much as AH.
AH graphics are superior, all around. AH does not have a SAC utility like AW3 but that was a player built add on not from Kesmai. Let's see how AH develops ...
Rolling terrain? AW3 does not have it.
Damage model. Well red screen is all AW3 has. Or the reamdomizer (sp intentional).
Not like the superb battle damage one can see or incur here.
Guns and load out. AH has it. It's the balls.
AW3 has that magical "one second burst" of all guns till the percentage of heavy guage rounds (not modelled really) runs out and then damage capability deteriorates. No choice in guns, weaps, bombs
.... argh. I could go on for about two pages about what AH has that AW does not.
THE NUMBER ONE REASON (and there are ALOT) I'LL BE DISHING OUT $30/mo IS
NO RELAXED REALISM GOOBERS!!!!
-Westy
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I am in the same situation as straffo above about living in europe and having to pay for local calls.
Currently I pay 2$ a hour for a local call (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
But this aint Hitech and the guys fault, is it ?
Also I see several others complains that 30$ a month is 40-50$ canadian, so what, it is like 200-250 Norwegian Kroner and a billion psetas (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Still it is just 30$ US.
I try to stay below 100$ a month in Warbirds, so AH will be a bargain for me when I start to play it on regular basis.
I am however not gonna sign up when it goes pay, I guess Ill just stick around and DL every update and try it offline until I feel it is so much better than WB are, then I will move over.
When I do move over I guess it will be on a permanent basis, and I will come, no doubt.
After all I fell Hitech\pyro and the guys really want to give us the best flightsim around (Notice FlightSIM not Flightgame).
IEN on the other hand give me the impression of me beeing one of many sponsors to finance their Bingo\casino\hovertank games.
Giving us an uptate every 6 month just to keep the customers (relatively) happy.
AH is in many ways a better game than WB already, but not in all the ways I want it to be before I quit WB, I just dont afford\have time to fly them both, and dont forget WWIIonline.
But with the speed and pace the Hitech guys are working I will not be long before they once again is on the Realism\Popularity top again.
Now, pyro, how is it going with my Lancaster (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
You give me a Lanc, and Ill be yours for ever (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-
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It seems that HTC is trying to make this an actual sim. That seems to mean that they are not particularly catering to the entire gaming comumity, but to the hardcore sim pilot. No relaxed realism (ever.. I hope) and no pandering to "its too hard to fly".
The price seems to perpetuate that. Those that are commited to flying an excellent sim will pay it. Those that are on the fence will have to think about it. Those that just want to play the newest cool game will not pay.
So... I'll have to classify myself as "on the fence" for this one. I'm going to pay for a couple of months at least... then see how many people are still playing. I'm a firm believer is supporting companies that have philosophies in line with how I think things should be ran. HTC seems to be one of those companies.
AKDejaVu
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It may be that there would be more players at a lower price, but there would ALSO be more cost to operate.
Let's remember that HTC are the guys who created WB, and set it's price. They KNOW the market, and know the costs. I'm sure they gave this issue a LOT of thought before they came up with the price.
popeye
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I have to agree with AKdejavu,
I just saw a good Sim go in the Drain, because it wasn't appealing to the "regular shoot the runner player"...
If this sim is as good as i think it is, I'm ready to pay 30$ a month...
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Saint
DCO 186th Wardogs (Falcon4 Squad)
http://www.wardogs.org/ (http://www.wardogs.org/)
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Naw, I still think my analogy is valid tweedy.
I'm pretty certain that Porche would sell a higher "volume" of 911's if they cut the price to match Yugo's. But in an online sim bandwidth requirements increase exponentially with volume not linearly. The volume curve isn't nearly as attractive.
Besides half the dregs you'd be pulling in a 10$ a month would be whining about their wings coming off just because they pulled 9 G's and that black outs make the game too hard. Besides, they would have names like DaRkLoRdOfdEathZ, AnArCHyRulEZ, LamErTaMerZ, which make it very hard to type in the squelch command. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I think you are better off with a more mature, committed community. Even if it is smaller. Leave the volume (and the great unwashed masses) to walmart. ;>
Personally, I think 24.95 a month would be a better compromise between volume and quality. High enough to keep out the guys who's names all end in Z, but low enough to draw in the more serious pilots still sitting on the fence. But it ain't my product, and ain't my price point to set.
BTW, 30$ US is exactly the same as 40$ AUS(or whatever the ex.rate is) The number of bills and the color are different, but the "cost" in buying power is the same for both. Thats what exchange rates are for. To normalize currency variences.
Regards,
Wab
[This message has been edited by AKWabbit (edited 01-18-2000).]
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opps
[This message has been edited by AKWabbit (edited 01-18-2000).]
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I'm pretty certain that Porche would sell a higher "volume" of 911's if they cut the price to match Yugo's.
Interesting market anology and a very good one, Wabbit.
IMO, just as Wabbit descrbes, you can not really compare Porshe's to Yugo's. The Yugo is a "Base Need for Survival", while the Porshe is entertainment (In the form of transportation). For comparison, you need food to survive, but dining on lobster is for entertainment (In the form of nutrition).
It amazes me how much squeaking goes on based on the cost of something that is not needed for survival. If you are worried about the cost of survival, why worry about the cost of entertainment? A whine of spoiled modern societies, that entertainment is a "Right of Life" and not a fringe benefit from the "Fruits of Labor".
Nonetheless; manufactures and retailers both know, that for the vast majority of consumers, the consumer tries to buy the best "thingamagig" for least amount of money.
From a retailers stand piont. Sell 10,000 "widgets" and make 25 cents net profit each. $2,500
From a manufacturers stand piont. Produce 250 "hooyahs" and make 10 dollars net profit each. $2,500
From HTC (manufacturer and retailer) stand piont. Produce and sell 1000 "whatyamacallits" for 2 1/2 dollars and make 2 1/2 dollars net profit each. $2,500
AH will sell itself based on the percieved entertainment value vs cost, for each individual consumer. (Supply vs Demand --> Cost vs Value or Cost vs Need)
However, from what I can gather, HTC does not need to sell the game to players anyway. It pretty much sells itself.
HTC needs to sell AH to the potential players wife, girlfriend, significant other and / or parents.
Then there is much less problem with the cost! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Mino
[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 01-18-2000).]
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Don't know if this has been said (note to self :read the thread then idiot)
10000 players paying $15 is no different to 5000 paying $30 (apart from the game becomes more appealing due to fuller servers)
So the question HTC has to ask itself is will halfing the price double the customers, they obviously think not. Luckily they obviously think doubling the price will take out more than half the customers (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
It's not like yugo v 911 as the 911 will cost more to make but AH will cost the same to make whatever thay charge.
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It doesn't quite work that way. Each user represents an incremental cost to us through servers, bandwidth, and support. If halving the price only allowed us to double the number of users, we'd come out losing heavily.
This doesn't include the fixed costs, but to take your example, what if your incremental costs per person were $16? 5000 people paying $30 nets you $70000 but 10000 people paying $15 nets you a loss of $10000.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
"The side with the fanciest uniforms loses."
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Ok i am wrong (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) but i am not sure where my logic went wrong so you please tell me.
I had assumed your current server infrastructure was capable of holding XXX people and as long as this limit was not exceeded the infrastructure would cost you a set amount. (your statement above suggests that the more people using the server the more it costs you i.e 50 people using a server 200 person server costs less than 100 people using it, is this where i went wrong?)
You get the same income and have the same costs it is just that your costs per customer is less because you have spread it out over more of them.
? ? ? ?
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Hi All,
I seem to remember a thread on argo's board about the demographics <sp?> of the average WB player. Seems the average WB player was 30-40, professional that made about $40,000-$50,000 a year. That would tend to fit with the cost of $2.00 dollars per hour.
With a flat rate price of $30.00 per hour it seems that AH is targeting a group that is a little younger and makes a little less money (Bravo guys). Now I can't begin to guess at what the demographics of the average AH player will be once it goes pay, but it is sure that HT and company will be bringing the same high quality flight sim to people that can't easily throw away big bucks for entertainment, and I for one think they should be applauded for it.
For those of you that it will be still to expensive for, I understand, but I don't think that the answer is to cut the quality of the sim to the point that would be required to bring the cost to the $10.00 per month. This stuff is expensive to develop, produce and continue to improve. As the customer we have to be willing to bear a large portion of that cost to keep the company solvent and be able to continue to provide us with the quality entertainment we want.
Sharky
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Sharky;
Well said!
All in all, I consider $30 very reasonble for the entertainment value that I will be getting from it.
Mino
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Active thread I see.
I like WB, I like AH. I quit WB because it got boring (same old garbage). It got boring because HT and crew left and IEN is the crappiest game company on earth.. (I have not ONCE played a game of theirs I liked.. in fact I gasped in horror at a couple of their box titles).
In my PEAK of playing AH I never spent more than $30. On average I would say it was around $20. I'm an avid player and I think of myself as being a little above average when it comes to the amount of time I would play.
Thus I suspect the average player would only play for about $20 worth (compared to WB) max. The base of your price should be focused for the average person since they will be the majority.
Yes the flight sim fanatics will pay $300 a month on WB will pay $30 a month on AH. However, what % of the community is fanatical/rich, like 10% ??
Anyways I'm Canadian and $30 is $42. I would basically be paying the price of a new game every month (yet it won't be a new game). Furthermore I know that I would not play enough to account for the cost. BUT DAMNIT I want to play the game!! I want to play for a couple hours here and there.. at the MOST $20 worth (10 hours) but definitely NOT $30 worth.
Just my 2 bits
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You are all Worthless and Weak, Now Drop and Give ME TWENTY!
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Hey Gadfly, you using 10 or 12lbs test?
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(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif) huff......19.....puff.....20 !!
Originally posted by Gadfly:
You are all Worthless and Weak, Now Drop and Give ME TWENTY!
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>However, what % of the community is
>fanatical/rich, like 10% ??
Prolly the same percentage that can be counted on long term as steady committed customers.
I think the "average" player is more along the lines of what I call "Free Beta Locust".
They decend in a cloud upon a free beta, consume as much as they can, and then when pay comes around, lift off to move on to the next free beta. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
In the end, the fanatics are the only ones you can count on. LoL!
Regards,
Wab
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I've heard people mention maintenance costs per player. Suppose I would subscribe for two months that I know I will have time to play and then unsubscribe for three months, re-subscribe for 1 month then repeat. How would/does HT manage that? (or another other game site for that matter) I'm sure there are people doing this.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) Mind you, I would NOT do this ! This is why I have no problem paying $10 a month to Kesmai. If I miss a month, NO BIGGIE.
Thanks for airing out with us.
Originally posted by Pyro:
It doesn't quite work that way. Each user represents an incremental cost to us through servers, bandwidth, and support. If halving the price only allowed us to double the number of users, we'd come out losing heavily.
This doesn't include the fixed costs, but to take your example, what if your incremental costs per person were $16? 5000 people paying $30 nets you $70000 but 10000 people paying $15 nets you a loss of $10000.
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Damn, all this stuff about it costing too much, and I've been worrying that $29.99/month is not enough for them to stay in business.....
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Spinny, VF-17, The Jolly Rogers 8X
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This sim targets the hard core sim pilots out there, period. There is no relaxed realism arena, no outside views in fighters, you stall, gforces cause your plane to self destruct if you overstress..ect..ect..
That being said..
It will only have a small percentage of the flight sim crowd interested in it for 5 bucks a month..or 100 bucks a month. Price does not dictate..for me at least.. if I enjoy something or not..or if im willing to shell out the bucks for it. If the game is good enough, if I LIKE it enough..I WILL play it. 30 bucks, 10 bucks..2 bucks an hour..whatever the cost I will find a way to get the damn thing If I like it. Couple hours overtime, no movie that month, whatever it takes. I dont see how price can even be an issue here. 30 bucks is nothing..if it was 100 I'd feel the same way.
The bottom line...
If its providing its worth in entertainment, and you ENJOY doing it..then you will do it.
If you feel its not worthy, or you dont like it that much, you wont.
My biggest fear is I'll log on after it goes pay and there wont be anyone to shoot at!!
HTC is shooting for a market niche that doesnt have thousands upon thousands of people dying to try their sim. They are searching for that low percantage of hardcore, dedicated players. Log onto any other online sim and check the numbers..how many are in realaxed realism? well over 90% in most cases..well..this aint for them..its for the other 10%. The hardcore sim community.
Kind of off topic here..but something I have noticed..
Were amazinhunks..thats right..amazinhunks.
Ive seen this more times than i can count.
Newbie: "hi guys..im new..any tips?"
dead silence...
Newbie:"how do I start my plane?"
more silence
Newbie:"can anyone help me?"
Un-named AH vet :"go back to fighter ace ya dweeb!"
Un-named AH vet#2: "read the manual Newbie!"
Newbie :"I just need help getting started"
Un-named AH vet#3 :"This is a SIMULATION, not quake..takes years to learn"
Newbie :"logging off!!"
Cmon folks..this has GOT to change..I realize, myself included most of us are serious multi year vets from brand x,y simulations, and have little tolerance for some punk that jumps in and expects to get going without so much as reading the key commands, but if the community is to grow, we gotta do somethin about the abuse that the poor 1st time simmers are taking in here.
Even though this is a beta..could we maybe designate some people to help the new guys..at least get em on the right track..so they dont tell everyone they meet what amazinhunks those AH players are.
One of my best friends had just such an experience couple days ago..and believe me..all 30 of us at work heard about it..and many are gamers..gamers that will never set foot in AH, just because that one New guy was treated this way. I tried to explain that AH guys are not aholes..but serious simmers that expect you to learn the game mechanics offline, so not to spam drivel while we are trying to survive..dont think it went over very well.
I work at 3dfx btw..in case anyone was wondering..
sorry off topic so long..had to get it off my chest..
Granger
[This message has been edited by Granger (edited 01-19-2000).]
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Sorry Granger, but that post belongs in a thread all of its own. I understand what you are getting at, but that is the type of post that changes the topic of a thread... just start a new topic instead.
AKDejaVu
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Let me see if I got this right.
Your friend loaded up on of the most sophisticated simulations of WWII arial combat, jumped in without reading a line of the help material, then expects people who have read the help material to interrupt their flying to retype the help material to him through the chat buffer.
If someone asks something like "how do switch to the belly gun position in the B-26 Mitchell?" or something like that I'll answer if I know. But I expect people to at least have figured out how to turn their engine on before sucking up server bandwidth. If not, then the only thing I want to know is what field are they at so I can vulch them unmercifully. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
And to answer your next question, yes, I am an amazinhunk. Guilty as charged. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Regards,
Wab
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Someone said this before, but I'll repeat it and I'll try to be nice and politically correct mind you. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
The clientele that is drawn to an online game that costs $10/month is a completely different from that of a clientele that is drawn to an online game that costs $30/month.
I prefer to pay that little bit extra for the pleasure of not playing with a foul-mouthed,current public-school system educated 'Johnny' who is a drop-out at age 14. Whoops! There I go again, I knew I couldn't be politically correct!
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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
-Rip1- VF-101 Grim Reapers (RET)
"There is no reason anyone would
want a computer in their home."
Ken Olson, president, chairman and
founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977
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I've seen some pretty foul language here on AH so apparently price is not a determinant. (Yeah I know it's free right now)Unfortunately Momsey and Daddy of "foul-mouthed,current public-school system educated 'Johnny' who is a drop-out at age 14" generally *give* him more money than I *earn* in a week so he will be here regardless of cost. What *will* drive him away is the time and effort he will need to put in to enjoy the sim. How long can anyone enjoy crash and burn.
Any how...I will agree that I DO NOT want to hear foul language here or on any gamesite. In fact If you scroll back to several messages in this topic you'll see several instances of it.
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Someone said this before, but I'll repeat it and I'll try to be nice and politically correct mind you. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
The clientele that is drawn to an online game that costs $10/month is a completely different from that of a clientele that is drawn to an online game that costs $30/month.
I prefer to pay that little bit extra for the pleasure of not playing with a foul-mouthed,current public-school system educated 'Johnny' who is a drop-out at age 14. Whoops! There I go again, I knew I couldn't be politically correct!
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"How long can anyone enjoy crash and burn..."
Well you have to take it from another prospective. As in watching the crash&burnee! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
That's something I never stop getting a kick out of. I can enjoy that for a loOong time.
Curly
[This message has been edited by Curly (edited 01-19-2000).]
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Off topic, but:
Bad generalization there about teens. I've heard my share of foul language from adults. And remember, u guys were once young too.
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My apologies YourDead, as you see, that has been my only experience with teens when WB's (Then CK) was "Free", and later, when WB's was offered by others for a free-weekend, these were the types I ran into all the time. Who knows, I might be attracting them!!! Again, my apologies, you, of course, present yourself online as alot older than you are! I watched someone vulch you 10 times in a row, and you didn't retribute in any fashion...I probably would have! Kudos to you!
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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
-Rip1- VF-101 Grim Reapers (RET)
"There is no reason anyone would
want a computer in their home."
Ken Olson, president, chairman and
founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977
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Sorry Haha,
You'll be missed. But AH is a serious sim for serious sim pilots. Said pilots want to be the best, or at least compete against the best. They want the latest and most accurate modelling available. They spend mucho money on books and other WWII aviation information. They attend airshows, build models, and can reel off aerodynamics statistics like a pro.
If your a casual player who only plays a few hours a month, this is not the sim for you. But if your hardcore, and you know if you are, you will pay to play with the very best.
Cya up...
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Brazo, if HaHa is the reknowned LordHaha, then you're talking to a hard core flyer!
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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
-Rip1- VF-101 Grim Reapers (RET)
"There is no reason anyone would
want a computer in their home."
Ken Olson, president, chairman and
founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977
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No one curses at me, so I dont have to curse. I have cursed, but to my friend on a private radio channel (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Hi Rip,
Well, he said in his peak he didn't spend more than $20... imo, that aint hardcore.