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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: 1K3 on August 09, 2004, 10:45:35 PM

Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: 1K3 on August 09, 2004, 10:45:35 PM
Now we have Ki-84 (still on waiting list). What should be next?
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Glasses on August 09, 2004, 11:38:44 PM
Ki-43 and Ki-44 :D
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: B17Skull12 on August 09, 2004, 11:44:12 PM
He111!
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Kweassa on August 10, 2004, 12:23:19 AM
Fighters?

 Still need more Japanese and Soviet stuff. The Ki-84-Ia closed off the largest gap in the entire plane set, but there are still much more smaller holes.

 The Japanese fought four years against the USN and both the Army and the Navy produced variety of aircraft to try and counter the USN - of them only two Zero variants and the N1K2 has been modelled. Only a single Army fighter of Ki-61 is in the set. A grand total of four fighter planes in the entire Imperial Japanese set. With the Ki-84 that's still only five.

 A6M3, Ki-43, Ki-44, Ki-45, and Ki-100 are all likely candidates for the (more or less) completion of the plane set.

 The VVS has it even worse. These guys fought the LW for three years in the largest air and ground battles of WW2, and for every LW variant in the air they tried to match it with their own . Of all those planes we only have four, concentrated on the mid/late war.

 I-16, Mig-3, LaGG-3, P-39N, P-39Q, La-5, Yak-1, Yak-7B, Yak-1B, Yak-9M, Yak-3 are all likely candidates.

 To choose two of them for the next next update, I'd go for the Ki-44 and the P-39N.

 The Ki-44 adds a midwar alternative for the Imperial Japanese, and the P-39N fills dual purposes in providing the one of the most important fighters of the VVS struggle, as well as adding in a Pacific plane for the USN to use.

 ....

 As for filling gaps for already existing plane variants, the P-38G is probably the most needed. The RAF needs a better Spitfire9, at least upto '43 standards, and the LW needs a gap-filler between the G-6 and the G-10 - the Bf109G-14 which would become one of the most numerously produced G models in the 109 family.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: GScholz on August 10, 2004, 01:34:23 AM
(http://www.jtsystems.demon.co.uk/duma/images/cartoons/looserivets/300700.gif)
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Fruda on August 10, 2004, 03:21:32 AM
Quote
I-16, Mig-3, LaGG-3, P-39N, P-39Q, La-5, Yak-1, Yak-7B, Yak-1B, Yak-9M, Yak-3


Now that's what I'm talking about!
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: SunTracker on August 10, 2004, 04:04:28 AM
Quote
These guys fought the LW for three years in the largest air and ground battles of WW2,


USA fought the largest air battles, not the Soviets.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Ghosth on August 10, 2004, 08:01:55 AM
Need russian & italian bombers, German condor would be nice also.

Early russian fighters, and Japanese float planes & flying boats.

Get all that & i'm ready for the p39, and a couple of other us planes.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: milnko on August 10, 2004, 08:24:15 AM
One of the reasons I wanted the KI.84 is it's shape, as it "should" be easy enough for Natedog and Superfly to modify it into a KI.43

We really don't have as many different A/C shapes in the game when ya think about it, all the F4Us... same, FW190a5, a8, f8... same, P-51b P51d... same, Yak9s... same, the list goes on.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Sikboy on August 10, 2004, 09:09:51 AM
Sing it with me....

D-4-Y

Judy, Judy, Judy


-Sik
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Karnak on August 10, 2004, 10:55:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by milnko
One of the reasons I wanted the KI.84 is it's shape, as it "should" be easy enough for Natedog and Superfly to modify it into a KI.43.

No, it is a completely diffent aircraft.  The are both Nakajima designs, but are no more similar than the P-40 and P-51.  The Ki-43 and Ki-44 will both require completely new 3D models.

To reuse work the A6M3, N1K1-J, Ki-100 would be the best choices.


As to the question:

We "need" so much that HTC can pretty much add whatever they like and it will probably fill a gap.

I would not be surprised if the bomber is a B-24, something German or something Russian.  The tank is probably a M4A3 E8 Sherman, but if not it will be a T-34.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Tails on August 10, 2004, 12:21:18 PM
And what aircraft wishlist thread would be complete, without me chiming in practicly begging for an Me-410 :D

I'll shut up now...
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: mipoikel on August 10, 2004, 12:24:33 PM
There can be only one....



BREWSTER
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Bodhi on August 10, 2004, 01:49:04 PM
I'd like to see the:

USA
P-38F
P-39
B-24
B-25
M4a3
M-26

German
He-111
Do-17
Me-109G-14
Me-410
Panther
Puma

British
Gladiator
Beaufighter
Halifax
Wellington
Churchill MkII
Matilda

Japanese
Ki-100
Ki-43
Ki-45
D4Y
Jap Tank


Russian
Mig 3
LaGG3
Pe-2
Tu-3
T-34
KV-1
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Mitsu on August 10, 2004, 03:31:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Glasses
Ki-43 and Ki-44 :D


nice choice.
Ki-43 first...Ki-43-II fills CT and MA plane set.
Ki-44 would be interesting.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: GRUNHERZ on August 10, 2004, 04:39:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SunTracker
USA fought the largest air battles, not the Soviets.


No...  The air war in the east was bigger than even the giant late war western front bomber/escort raids.....  Where else do you think some 30,000 IL2's were lost in less than 4 years...
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: B17Skull12 on August 10, 2004, 05:07:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SunTracker
USA fought the largest air battles, not the Soviets.
you people and your history channel educations.  not that it is bad, but just that it is not accurate in feeds you information that isnt true.

i dont get why people think the war in europe was won in the west because it wasn't.  it was won in the East in the cities of stalingrad, and lennigrad.  and also on the plains of kursk.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: 1K3 on August 10, 2004, 05:37:09 PM
The Euro air war was WON by west. Ground battles goes to the Soviets. Our planes (USA) were designed to reach the backyard of Germany and pork its resources. Most Soviet plane designs gived the red army close support and A2G capability for their advancing tanks.

:)
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: 1K3 on August 10, 2004, 05:40:33 PM
hmmmmm, didnt pyro promised us that he's gonna make a Yak-9 standard (D or M?) ?
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Fruda on August 10, 2004, 06:55:48 PM
How about a Yak-3 first? It's much more historically important, not to mention that it was the lightest, most nimble fighter the Russians had (from what I've read, anyway. I'll have to look into the subject in-depth to confirm this).
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Urchin on August 10, 2004, 07:22:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Glasses
Ki-43 and Ki-44 :D


'Nuff said... I'd turn into a Japanophile with those two.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Glasses on August 10, 2004, 07:34:41 PM
Urch the word you're lookingfor there is Otaku :D
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Urchin on August 10, 2004, 09:46:12 PM
Yea, but what do JapWobbles wear?
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Karnak on August 10, 2004, 10:01:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
Yea, but what do JapWobbles wear?

Silk?
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Mitsu on August 10, 2004, 11:05:10 PM
The Ki-43 was IJAAF's main fighter.
We should have it next.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: B17Skull12 on August 10, 2004, 11:07:54 PM
ohh i forgot about 1 thing.

Brewster to AH!
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Wadke on August 10, 2004, 11:57:20 PM
P-39Q-10
(Russian Colors)
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Mathman on August 11, 2004, 12:02:02 AM
I would like an F6F-3 and a gang of Japanese targets/planes to shoot at while I tool around the virtual skies in it please.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Dralex on August 11, 2004, 11:50:29 AM
If Ki-84 is not under discussion, my wish-list looks like:
Yak-3
P-39
P-38J
B-24
B-25
T-34
KV-1
He-111
As for Ki-43 it is not so important in MA (IMHO).
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: TequilaChaser on August 11, 2004, 02:17:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mathman
I would like an F6F-3 and a gang of Japanese targets/planes to shoot at while I tool around the virtual skies in it please.



I second thy motion!
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Canaris on August 11, 2004, 04:12:22 PM
I would like:

a early p38 preferably a p38D

b24

b25g

panther
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Karnak on August 11, 2004, 04:29:23 PM
P-38D didn't really see any service.  A P-38F or P-38G would be far more useful.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Panzzer on August 11, 2004, 04:45:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mipoikel
There can be only one....



BREWSTER

Yep. :aok

(http://www.jtsystems.demon.co.uk/duma/images/cartoons/looserivets/200700.gif)
Title: my hope planeset
Post by: Mitsu on August 11, 2004, 05:54:15 PM
1. Ki-43 (Army main fighter like Navy A6M)
2. J2M (Navy Intercepter)
3. Ki-44 (Army Intercepter, lighter ammo and weight, excellent flight performance)
4. G4M (Most famous Navy Bomber with not bad performance)

want to see personally:

1. Ki-100-I-Otsu (bubble canopy ver of Ki-100, deadly TnBer.)
2. Ki-61-I-Otsu (12.7mm*4, lighter weight of Tony)
3. H8K2 Emily (IJN's great flying-boat like US army's B-17!)
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: 1K3 on August 11, 2004, 06:09:46 PM
Are you asking for more TARGET DRONES? :D

yep, i would love to see 2 Ki-44s (Ki-44-IIb armed with 4 12.7mm mguns, and Ki-44-IIc armed with 4 20mm cannons), a Ki-61-Ib, Ki-43, G4M2, J2M, and would Ki-100 as a perk plane (very limited production plane that saw limited service)  be ok?

:)
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Tilt on August 11, 2004, 06:12:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SunTracker
USA fought the largest air battles, not the Soviets.


this is incorrect

Russian order of battle for Operation Bagration late June44 an offensive which strechted across less than one quarter of the then eastern front which was quickly folloed by another of almost equal size to the south

Consisted of the following Air divisions each of which were made up of several  regiments (Squadrons), each squuadron could have as many as twenty aircraft depending upon type.

F=fighter, S=ground attack B =bomber NB=Night bomber

5GFAD
190FAD
211FAD
332SAD
335SAD
259FAD
314NBAD
3GBAD
4GBAD
5GBAD
6GBAD
113GBAD
334GBAD
213NBAD
307SAD
308SAD
3GFAD
4GFAD
7GFAD
322GFAD
265FAD
278FAD
325NBAD
230SAD
233SAD
229FAD
309FAD
242NBAD
3SAD
336FAD
241BAD
301FAD
196SAD
199SAD
273FAD
323FAD
279FAD
215FAD
221BAD
282FAD
1GFAD
2GSAD
132BAD
234FAD
283FAD
286FAD
299SAD
300SAD
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Mitsu on August 11, 2004, 06:45:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
Are you asking for more TARGET DRONES? :D

yep, i would love to see 2 Ki-44s (Ki-44-IIb armed with 4 12.7mm mguns, and Ki-44-IIc armed with 4 20mm cannons), a Ki-61-Ib, Ki-43, G4M2, J2M, and would Ki-100 as a perk plane (very limited production plane that saw limited service)  be ok?

:)


The Ki-44-IIc didn't have 4 20mm cannon.
And the Ki-100 is not rare plane. not very limited production.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: GScholz on August 11, 2004, 06:51:05 PM
Two thirds of the Luftwaffe's strength was deployed in the east. The strategic bombing campaign in the west was but a sideshow compared to the huge air battles fought over the Russian Front.

Edit: Even the huge 1000 bomber raids in the west pales to the largest air battle in history: Kursk. 2,900 Soviet and 1,830 German combat aircraft fighting over a battlefield swarming with over 7,500 tanks and millions of men.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: 1K3 on August 11, 2004, 07:12:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mitsu
The Ki-44-IIc didn't have 4 20mm cannon.


They did carry 4x 20mm (Ho-3) cannons (or sometimes the 37mm on Ki-44c-37) and used them to pork the B-29s
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Mitsu on August 11, 2004, 07:27:36 PM
No they didn't.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: 1K3 on August 11, 2004, 07:47:03 PM
then how can Ki-44s shot down small numbers of B-29s with just 2 12.7 and 2 7.7s? it would take them forever to down a B-29 with just mguns
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Crumpp on August 11, 2004, 07:51:45 PM
The Air War in East vs Air War in the West debate!

I agree the battles in the East were larger.  The casualties the Luftwaffe suffered in the West though were greater.  The Luftwaffe bled itself dry in the Defense of the Reich.  They never developed an effective strategic defense.  It was too late by the time they realized the Danger the Allied Air Forces in the West posed.

Great reads on the subject are:

http://www.schifferbooks.com/newschiffer/book_template.php?isbn=0887403484

http://shoppervalues.com/books/detail.cfm?id=0684839156

http://www.bergstrombooks.elknet.pl/bc-rs/

IMO for A/C we need early VVS, IJN, and IJAAF planes the most.

I would like to see the LW get:

FW-190A2 or A3
Bf-109G14
Tropical versions of 109's
He 111

VVS:
Lagg - 3
Mig - 3
I-16
Yak 1
Yak 9
Yak we have is pretty close to the Yak 3, I think, which was a very late war plane.

USAAF

P 39 (could be reskinned for VVS)
P38F
B24


RAF
Spit Mk VIII
Clipped wing Spit Mk V or Mk IX (tropical)
Wellington
Blenhiem
Fairy Swordfish (Stringbag would be hoot to attack CV's)

JP planes have already been covered in detail.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Mitsu on August 11, 2004, 08:07:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
then how can Ki-44s shot down small numbers of B-29s with just 2 12.7 and 2 7.7s? it would take them forever to down a B-29 with just mguns


The Ki-44-II had 2 Ho-301 40mm rocket cannon model on the wing.
It is the Ki-44-II-Otsu (Ki-44-II-b). 393 or less/more Ki-44-II-Otsu were produced.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Canaris on August 12, 2004, 08:43:19 AM
Karnak, it was made saw some service.  We need some more early 38s.

Hoping for the 38D for its 37mm gun.  It would make the 38 perfect for gv busting and bomber killing.  Only problem it isnt that fast.  

Canaris
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Karnak on August 12, 2004, 10:34:39 AM
Canaris,

From what I've read the P-38 with the 37mm never fought.

Further, not all cannon are equal and the 37mm on the P-39/P-38D was mediocre.  Nothing like the NS-37 on the Yak-9T.

We don't need the P-38D because it saw less WWII use than the Ta152H-1.

The P-38F was the first significant model of that aircraft.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: thrila on August 12, 2004, 10:41:44 AM
How about a mosquito FB XVIII with a 57mm cannon....

That could be fun.:)
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: hawker238 on August 12, 2004, 10:49:54 AM
I would like to see a large caliber cannon.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: B17Skull12 on August 12, 2004, 11:37:00 AM
JU87 G Gustav:D
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Grimm on August 13, 2004, 03:12:01 PM
I want snoopy's flying dog house.  

after that,  Id like on a whim,  the B24 next, followed by the PBY.   maybe not the most needed,  but I would enjoy the most.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: United on August 14, 2004, 01:13:16 AM
I'm betting a B-24 is next, but Id say that to fill the largest gap in the planeset we'd need an early war Russian bomber.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: XtrmeJ on August 14, 2004, 03:35:52 AM
Someone posted all the Loose Rivet "episodes" in one compact link. I'll see if I can dig it up
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Nilsen on August 15, 2004, 08:08:14 AM
see sig
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Reschke on August 16, 2004, 02:27:17 PM
I know we are going to see some US bombers/fighters coming up but honestly I  would rather see Japanese or Russian fighters and bombers with a small sprinkling of Italian and German aircraft coming along as well.
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Guppy35 on August 16, 2004, 04:42:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Canaris,

From what I've read the P-38 with the 37mm never fought.

Further, not all cannon are equal and the 37mm on the P-39/P-38D was mediocre.  Nothing like the NS-37 on the Yak-9T.

We don't need the P-38D because it saw less WWII use than the Ta152H-1.

The P-38F was the first significant model of that aircraft.


First Combat ready 38 was the E model that saw combat vs the Japanese in the Aleutians.  54th FS

F model was the first to get overseas however and would make more sense.  Of course in terms of look the F,G, H were pretty much identical with the smaller intakes.  If you are looking at the early Pac or North Africa the F and G.  If you are talking Europe and midwar pac then the H makes more sense.

D model was not combat ready

Dan/Slack
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Vudak on August 18, 2004, 12:19:04 AM
Personally I'd like to see the A-26 Invader for the simply wonderful reason that it would get me out of doing work at work for a few days a year.  My boss used to fly one in the war, and every so often his grandson who's 10 comes to the office to be babysat.  Back when Air Warrior was still around I actually got payed to set him up with a FW and watch him "kill grandpa".

Other than that, I really don't have a reason! :D
Title: Ki-84 down, more to go.....
Post by: Sakai on August 18, 2004, 10:55:59 AM
We need them all.

He-111 should be next.

For armor should have M4E8 or T-34

Personal preference . . .

He-111
SM-79
Il-16, Rata
Il-4
Gloster gladiator
Fiat Cr42
P-39
Ki-43

 . . . are in my opinion the most needed to flesh out planesets across more years.

Sakai