Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Makarov9 on August 10, 2004, 01:49:37 PM

Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: Makarov9 on August 10, 2004, 01:49:37 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,128512,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,128512,00.html)

You can see a video of the news report if you click on the "Video" tab. Only works with IE.

I knew about the XM-8 rifle but I didn't know about the XM-307 and XM-312 MG they briefly talk about.

I like how the Fox reporter lets a few rounds rip at the end. Something you would never see a CNN reporter do. ;)
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: GRUNHERZ on August 10, 2004, 02:27:58 PM
You arent kidding..

New .50 cal...

(http://www.gdatp.com/products/lethality/xm312/xm312_gallery/photos/5.jpg)

New 40mm grenade MG..

(http://www.gdatp.com/products/lethality/mk47/striker_gallery/photos/5.jpg)
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: Nilsen on August 10, 2004, 02:36:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
I guess now that the Nintendo generation becomes recruitment material, the army needs its toys to look the business. ;)


yeah, i wouldnt be seen dead infront of that ugly thing!
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: Makarov9 on August 10, 2004, 03:17:54 PM
*BEEOOOOOOIIIEEEE*

*BLAM*

Suck it demons!
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: J_A_B on August 10, 2004, 04:02:27 PM
Doesn't the new rifle still use the crappy .223 cartridge?


I'd rather have an M-14


J_A_B
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: Charon on August 10, 2004, 05:11:57 PM
You could keep the old systems and spend the money on training and retention and get twice the bang for the buck. But Joe grunt doesn't have a lobby working hard in Washington to buy new weapons systems whether they are needed or not. WTF is wrong with the M-2?

And of course... We were kicking bellybutton until the batteries died...Game over man!

Charon
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: Pongo on August 10, 2004, 05:17:56 PM
Are we so sure those are just an m2 and an m19 wrapped up in pretty plastic? or are they new weapons?
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: GRUNHERZ on August 10, 2004, 05:28:51 PM
The 50 cal is an all new design ..

http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg39-e.htm
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: Hawklore on August 10, 2004, 05:38:09 PM
:rofl

Speakers on the Ammo can of .50 cal!


:lol
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: Gunslinger on August 10, 2004, 05:54:13 PM
XM-8 sounds like a good rifle.

20% lighter and more durable.

The only concern I would have is if it reacts the same way to getting dirty as the M-16 does.
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: GtoRA2 on August 10, 2004, 05:57:31 PM
Sounds like it is well worth the tax payers money. :rolleyes:

Jeez a 50 cal that has a Rate of fire of 260 rpm?


I wonder how much more this "light" heavy machine gun cost per unit over the old M2?
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: VOR on August 10, 2004, 06:07:42 PM
We've had the same basic .50 machine gun for how long? Wasn't the original design built at the end of WW1? Wow. Ya know, if something works, why bugger with it? :confused:
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: GtoRA2 on August 10, 2004, 06:12:10 PM
Vor
 Exactly!
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: Charon on August 10, 2004, 07:16:32 PM
Quote
Wow. Ya know, if something works, why bugger with it?


Gives the guys in the pentagon something to do and somewhere to go get contractor cash once they retire. Maybe setting headspace and timing just got too tough or something.

Those new guns look Ricer man! All that's missing is the fart can option :) I'm a big fan of digital technologies at some levels, but not really at the infantry weapon level where soldier training, reliablity, ergonomics and good conventional killing power are more important (IMO).

Charon
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: Gunslinger on August 10, 2004, 07:21:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Charon
Gives the guys in the pentagon something to do and somewhere to go get contractor cash once they retire. Maybe setting headspace and timing just got too tough or something.

Those new guns look Ricer man! All that's missing is the fart can option :) I'm a big fan of digital technologies at some levels, but not really at the infantry weapon level where soldier training, reliablity, ergonomics and good conventional killing power are more important (IMO).

Charon


I agree that the MK 19 and M 2 are fine weapons and dont need to be replaced but its a fact that the M16 is an inherently flawed weapon.  The XM-8 looks  like a good replacement.
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: Gunslinger on August 10, 2004, 08:28:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
The XM-8 is a Heckler und Koch design, so it does not inherit any of the bad traits of the M-16. IIRC the XM-8's action is based on the G-36 design. Perhaps now the US army can finally have a reliable weapon, something they have not had since the M-14.


wow gunther we agree on something........Maybe there is hope for this world



naaaa I'm gonna go photoshop something
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: VOR on August 10, 2004, 08:29:16 PM
GS, that mount looks like a pretty good design. Yeah, the weight IS a big problem, plus the thing tends to need tightening during sustained firing. (The US mount.)

One thing I noticed about the mount you posted is the lack of a traverse/elevation mechanism. Does the recoil buffering system and stabiliser provide a steady enough platform that you don't need it anymore? And, do you have any field experience with the reflector sight?
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: Gunslinger on August 10, 2004, 08:42:51 PM
you've never been through hell untill you humped (Marine speak for force march) an M-2's reciever through the hills of camp pendelton.  Those F'ers are heavy!

still think its a good design though.  Maybe the new one will be better for more man portable applications and keep the current one for vehicle mounts.
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: VOR on August 10, 2004, 08:43:08 PM
Sounds like a pretty solid improvement overall.

Ok, I gotta know..are the red training rounds just dummy rounds or some kind of blank or what?

One more thing, I find the last picture you posted strangely erotic. :D
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: Gunslinger on August 10, 2004, 09:22:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Yeah, the XM8 is the Starship Troopers(tm) version of the G36. (The G36 is pretty Nintendo itself).



(http://www.hkpro.com/image/g36k.jpg)

(http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/Pics/xm8c.jpg)


but is it reliable after lowcrawling in mud muck and dirt?
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: Charon on August 10, 2004, 09:29:52 PM
Quote
but its a fact that the M16 is an inherently flawed weapon. The XM-8 looks like a good replacement.


I agree Guns. I was referring to the M2/ mk-19 replacements and indirectly the OICW system with it's built in fire control computer and bulk comprable to a 1970s era Soviet studo network video camera (and I think $15,000 pricetag). The M-8 "reduced" option seems far more useful, even though it will take awhile to get used to the looks.

Check out the OICW photos "in action" all that's missing is the combat field microwave oven add-on :) http://www.hkpro.com/oicw.htm

Charon
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: GtoRA2 on August 10, 2004, 09:59:42 PM
So since the XM-8 is an HK G-36, why the hell is the army messing with it?

Will it still be an HK when done and have the reliability?

Wasn't the M60 the Army ord frankinstean monster version of the MG42 and the wacky German para rifle?
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: GtoRA2 on August 10, 2004, 10:13:59 PM
GS
 Is HK helping the Army?
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: Pongo on August 10, 2004, 10:17:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by VOR
We've had the same basic .50 machine gun for how long? Wasn't the original design built at the end of WW1? Wow. Ya know, if something works, why bugger with it? :confused:


It certainly could be improved. Why not move to a new model. Dont scrap the whole inventory but buy new ones as they get replaced.
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: GtoRA2 on August 10, 2004, 10:18:38 PM
Yeah but what do  you think the odds are?:D


Did they ask Stoner, when they changed the rifling, the chambers being cromed and the powder for the M16 when they adopted it?:D
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: Pongo on August 10, 2004, 10:18:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
but is it reliable after lowcrawling in mud muck and dirt?


Im more worried about how it works after you but stroke someone with it.
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: GtoRA2 on August 10, 2004, 10:19:47 PM
Are the current M2s not using a kit to make the have fixed headspace so you can change the barrel faster?
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: GtoRA2 on August 10, 2004, 10:20:47 PM
Will the M8 have a Boyonette lug?
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: XtrmeJ on August 10, 2004, 10:36:45 PM
Propaganda to get younger folks to join.
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: GRUNHERZ on August 11, 2004, 01:57:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Then it would be better to get a weapon with more modern ammunition ... like that new 20mm you're developing. Buying a "new" gun that really offers little or no improvement in capability over the old gun except that it looks cooler, is a waste IMHO.


Not to worry GS, our tax money buying both. The XM312 is just a 50cal version of the XM307 which will fire a new type of 25mm shell.

http://www.gdatp.com/products/lethality/xm307/xm307.htm

Checkout the video gallery, I wonder if thje 50 cal has the same recoil dampening feature as the 25mm.
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: Chairboy on August 11, 2004, 02:05:59 AM
I watched a special last year about a new gun being tested that looked interesting.  It had a built in electronic range finder and fired smart ammunition that could be set to detonate immediately behind your target so they couldn't hide behind terrain.

They demoed it firing through a window and detonating in the room, shredding a dummy that was hidden out of sight.  Same for a dummy behind a wall.  They even showed the rounds being set to fire through a wall and detonating afterwards so it would take out whatever is hiding.

Anyone familiar with this?  I know there's a lot of jokes about guns that use electricity, but if it gives a real combat advantage, it seems pretty useful.
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: XtrmeJ on August 11, 2004, 02:30:29 AM
The XM307 looks to have a slow pace of fire.
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: XtrmeJ on August 11, 2004, 02:31:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
I watched a special last year about a new gun being tested that looked interesting.  It had a built in electronic range finder and fired smart ammunition that could be set to detonate immediately behind your target so they couldn't hide behind terrain.

They demoed it firing through a window and detonating in the room, shredding a dummy that was hidden out of sight.  Same for a dummy behind a wall.  They even showed the rounds being set to fire through a wall and detonating afterwards so it would take out whatever is hiding.

Anyone familiar with this?  I know there's a lot of jokes about guns that use electricity, but if it gives a real combat advantage, it seems pretty useful.


I also saw that special. The electricty is only ofr programming a bullet to explode at so many meters. When the battery runs out you still have a fully operational machine gun.
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: Charon on August 11, 2004, 10:22:44 AM
Quote
Are the current M2s not using a kit to make the have fixed headspace so you can change the barrel faster?


As late as 1992 I don't think that was the case. Setting headspace and timing isn't all that hard, but I wonder if it had anything to do with that .50 that malfunctions in the Lynch ambush. Apparently there was no range time in country and you have to fire some rounds to see if any fine tuning is required with the backplate off.

Charon
Title: XM-8 rifle and XM-307 MG News Report
Post by: Charon on August 11, 2004, 10:25:35 AM
Chairboy, thet might be the OICW system I noted. Neat stuff, but the cost and practicality and reliability are questionable at this time, IMO.

Charon