Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: mars01 on August 11, 2004, 10:08:42 AM
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How come we are seeing more people flying past multiple cons to do nothing but make a few worthless passes on the runway, only to be killed 2 seconds later.
Last night the Bish were intent on taking A9. Almost half of them passed by a multitude of cons to get one or two Vulch passes before getting killed. These guys were not dropping bombs they were trying to vulch.
I had an LA7 come in from 15k or higher dive in on the field, only to pull off because he was too high (lol) then try a lame pass on some sitting duck only to auger a second later when while I was on his tail.
Had he engaged me with his alt advantage, we would have been locked in a 1 on 1 and the LA7 would have controlled the fight (for a little while lol). Why make such a stupid attack. This was just one example. The whole night was like this. Cmon Bish don't start proving Zazen right. You gain no skills dying by vulching or HOing.
What can we do as a community to raise the skill level and increase the likelihood of people fighting rather than using lame tactics such as HOing and Vulching.
Vulching is OK when you have established a CAP, until then you are wasting your time flying from runway to runway.
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I have an idea....
Create a mandatory wait period for pilots killed or captured....Say, 5 minutes before you re-up.
If you ditch or bail, you have a 1 minute wait to re-up.
If you land, you re-up at once.
:D
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I thin part of the reason this happens is that summer time brings a whole lot of noobs. Kids on school break etc.
They for the most part end up flying as a "lone wolf" and don't know any better.
Maybe when we see this happening we should be offering to wing with them and show them the ropes, so to speak.
RTR
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Originally posted by mars01
How come we are seeing more people flying past multiple cons to do nothing but make a few worthless passes on the runway, only to be killed 2 seconds later.
Last night the Bish were intent on taking A9. Almost half of them passed by a multitude of cons to get one or two Vulch passes before getting killed. These guys were not dropping bombs they were trying to vulch.
I had an LA7 come in from 15k or higher dive in on the field, only to pull off because he was too high (lol) then try a lame pass on some sitting duck only to auger a second later when while I was on his tail.
Had he engaged me with his alt advantage, we would have been locked in a 1 on 1 and the LA7 would have controlled the fight (for a little while lol). Why make such a stupid attack. This was just one example. The whole night was like this. Cmon Bish don't start proving Zazen right. You gain no skills dying by vulching or HOing.
What can we do as a community to raise the skill level and increase the likelihood of people fighting rather than using lame tactics such as HOing and Vulching.
Vulching is OK when you have established a CAP, until then you are wasting your time flying from runway to runway.
Mars, this is a favorite tactic of the Bishops unfortunately. I have seen only one Bish actually do this and survive, it was in an Lgay7 on NDisles about 3 weeks ago (I think it was waffle as he was gloating about vulching 2 Rooks in an Lgay7 at the time, I was on his 6 as he egressed). What we are dealing with is people who have resolved through bitter experience that they cannot, consistantly, get a kill any other way and/or simply gave up trying to 'really' fight.
I fight Bishops alot and notice they do this alot, but having killed alot of them I can tell you it's not an epidemic of numbers of them doing it, it's actually about 10 to 15 of them that ONLY do this. So, you see it alot. Kind of like how fuel porkers were in AH1, a few people ONLY EVER pork n' augered into fuel tanks. They'd die, re-up, rinse and repeat to the total exclusion of any other activity.
Zazen
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I mostly fight Rooks and see this every time I play. It's not country specific.
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this is a favorite tactic of the Bishops unfortunately
it's actually about 10 to 15 of them that ONLY do this.
So Zazen, which is it?
Your response is without a point.
it is pointless
it is rounded at the end
It is conflicted and obtuse.
It is a rehash of previous tripe.
RTR (my sneetch has a star on its belly, has yours?)
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Zazen,
There is no need to start country bashing. I'm sure there are knights that do this as well as rooks. Last night it was just the Bish so that was the example.
The point of the post was to start a dialog where we might figure out a way to help people attain skills while getting the word out that this kind of behaviour is not really fighting or if the community deems it is a valid form of fighting then so be it.
Please leave your personal bias about one country or the other at the door. These are tactics that people in all the countries employ unfortunatly.
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Originally posted by RTR
So Zazen, which is it?
Your response is without a point.
it is pointless
it is rounded at the end
It is conflicted and obtuse.
It is a rehash of previous tripe.
RTR (my sneetch has a star on its belly, has yours?)
My point is, Bishops do this, I have never seen a knight or rook do this. I'm sure the odd one has in someone's experience, but the tactic seems prevalent only among Bishops for some unknown reason as Mars01 mentioned.
Zazen
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Originally posted by mars01
Zazen,
There is no need to start country bashing. I'm sure there are knights that do this as well as rooks. Last night it was just the Bish so that was the example.
The point of the post was to start a dialog where we might figure out a way to help people attain skills while getting the word out that this kind of behaviour is not really fighting or if the community deems it is a valid form of fighting then so be it.
Please leave your personal bias about one country or the other at the door. These are tactics that people in all the countries employ unfortunatly.
Stating universally known facts is not country bashing. It's not my fault they do this, merely pointing it out as fact is not tantamount to bashing them. An example: People saying Rooks fly higher than the average is a fact, you call Rooks alt-monkeys, do you ever see me getting my panties in a bunch? Nope. Because any intelligent thinking person, with even an iota of observational skills knows this to be a FACT. You guys are far too hypersensitive.
Zazen
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Stating universally known facts is not country bashing. It's not my fault they do this, merely pointing it out as fact is not tantamount to bashing them. An example: Everyone saying Rooks fly higher than the average is a fact, you call Rooks alt-monkeys, do you ever see me getting my panties in a bunch? Nope. Because any intelligent thinking person, with even an iota of observational skills knows this to be a FACT. You guys are far too hypersensitive.
Dude you are so full of ****.
I have not accused Rooks of being alt monkeys since I took the world tour and realized my stupidity that there are Major Nelsons in all the coutries. I wish you had the ability of self realization as well. Get off your dead horse.
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I think its because for the guy screaming into the enemy base, he has a choice...lose your E by manuvering to get shots on those around the base, and opening yourself up to aa, or scream in and killing the easiest target, the guy sitting on the runway.
I think it happens on all sides, and I myself have done it often when I real fast..too fast to get shots on anything else.
That said..it is the MA where anything and everything happens. If WW2OL taught me anything, its that you can't create a game, and open it to players from around the world and expect everyone to play the same way, or the way one person, or the designers envisioned.
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Originally posted by mars01
Dude you are so full of ****.
I have not accused Rooks of being alt monkeys since I took the world tour and realized my stupidity that there are Major Nelsons in all the coutries. I wish you had the ability of self realization as well. Get off your dead horse.
I didn't specifically say you did mars, why so defensive? ;)
Zazen
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All three sides do this, a lot, and it is nothing new.
I can't think of any way to prevent it. The death=5 minutes, and land=zero minutes idea would not prevent it. It might slow down pork and auger types but will not stop vulchers who prefer nearly stationary targets to ones that can maneuver.
Perhaps posting the films of them doing it will hlep, but that certainly wont stop them altogether either. I've said something to a countrymate before over open channel when I was mixing it up with the CAP over an enemy base and some "support" comes in high only to head straight for the runway. Peer pressure from colleagues has a greater effect than anything I can name.
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zazen and his coutry 'Know it all':rolleyes: .
teh furball ist dying. mars the solution is find a way to make him fight. if that means come out of your dog hose and get alt do it! Most of them are easy kills anyways.
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Edit: NM,was before i had my coffee
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
zazen and his coutry 'Know it all':rolleyes: .
teh furball ist dying. mars the solution is find a way to make him fight. if that means come out of your dog hose and get alt do it! Most of them are easy kills anyways.
You haven't read the posts. This is not a furballer vs alt-monkey thread.
We have all witnessed this alot lately. An enemy (usually an La7 or P-51) will fly through all enemy's not engaging just to try and vulch somebody landing/taking off.
They can have every reason, advantage in alt, speed, etc... to engage and don't. They usually don't even have ord, they only want to get an easy vulch kill or 2 before they die.
It has to be noobs with no skills. Just not sure how we can let them know we'd help them learn (or begin the journey anyway) to fight.
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LOL Zazen that's twice you got me with the edit.
But filth these guys are passing up better targets, where they have the advantage to make futile passes in a sure suicide.
Skull, I went up to alt to get some good fights but the problem was these guys would go screaming by and strait for the runway. I would give chase and end up on the deck after said noob augered. Very frustrating lol.
Cooly RIF ( Reading Is Fundamental) lol
Dipstick nailed it.:aok
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This is nothing new, really. I can't count how many times i've flown toward an enema base, solo, and had multiple hamstards overfly me otw to their impending vulch/bomb-auger deaths at the base I just snuck out of.
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i like seeing the text say 68devilm landed so many kills in a whatever, i think most people are doing it just to stack thier kill stats up, and lower thier scores.
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Originally posted by TalonX
I have an idea....
Create a mandatory wait period for pilots killed or captured....Say, 5 minutes before you re-up.
If you ditch or bail, you have a 1 minute wait to re-up.
If you land, you re-up at once.
:D
That is a good idea.:aok
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Originally posted by SirLoin
That is a good idea.:aok
I like it too sirloin, but I don't think it will do much to prevent what Mars started this thread about.
Death; you wait 4 minutes till next sortie
Capture; 3
Bail; 2
Ditch; 1
Land; 0
The penalty/benefit of all these outcomes is modeled in the way points and perks are given/taken now, but I'll wager half of the arean doesn't give a rat's arse about points or perks.
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The problem with the time penalty is that it might have the affect of people being more sheepish about fighting and dying.
It might reduce the number of suiciders but might increase the number of runners.
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Originally posted by mars01
The problem with the time penalty is that it might have the affect of people being more sheepish about fighting and dying.
It might reduce the number of suiciders but might increase the number of runners.
Yup. If they get any more sheepish they'll never leave the hanger. ;)
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hum, well them make them fight. this is the attitude of what happens when small maps are ran. "Bases are so close, i can vulch, then reup and vulch fast.
anyway, HT thing would work. and all the whines would be very entertaining.
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Zazen, pay attention here because I'm only going to post this once, and will not further reply to it.
The numbers you spout and the conclusions you draw from them are wrong. You twist and wrend them until they fit your ideal of what the modus operandi of each chess piece is.
You drive a deep wedge, creating a distasteful and bass ackwards concept of superiority, that is wholly unfounded and in fact harmfull.
You assign a personality trait to real people on the basis of which chess piece they affiliate with in a game.
You persist in this even though it has been said time and time again by just about all, that it is in the least, offensive.
What you hope to gain with this persistence,I have no idea, but I hope you are getting at least some sort of satisfaction with the derisiveness you are creating.
As for me, I really don't care about your opinions. I am more concerned with the new people coming to the game, and perhaps buying into this sort of tripe.
In short, instead of spouting misplaced "wisdom" about what you "see" and determine by #'s, try shutting your yap and fly with your eyes open. There is a pretty diverse community of real people that fly here. Some of them may surprise you even though they are affiliated with a different chess piece than you.
Knock it off.
RTR
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Originally posted by DipStick
Yup. If they get any more sheepish they'll never leave the hanger. ;)
Is it posible for them to be anymore sheepish than they are already?
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Is it posible for them to be anymore sheepish than they are already?
mmbaaaaaarely, but yes.
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Skull ... the "furball(er)" is not dying and nobody said that they weren't easy kills ... if they live past the compression suicide auger.
Mars ... they aren't passing up better targets. Think about it. They have no A2A skills so they would surely lose if they engaged ... that is not as good as a target that is stationary on the runway ... no chance of someone shooting back at them.
Shane ... that is SO TRUE. I have even gone as far as to try the "wounded duck" manouver to try and bait them down, but still they fly by.
DevilM ... these guys are lucky if they get 1 kill on the vulch and extremely lucky if they get 2 kills before they are sent back to the tower under their own power or by gunfire. These types don't usually land so their "name in lights" nor score is a consideration.
Edbert ... the "sit in the tower cause you died" scenario will only make more people timid and avoid engagments at all costs. We have too much of that going on around here. I don't think that we need to increase it IMHO.
Yes ... all countries are guilty of having timid non-engaging pilots.
MORPHEUS !!!! WHERE THE HELL IS MY EMAIL !!! ERRR !!!
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slapshot please tell what your idea on how to stop this is. The time is is the only logical way to stop this. what increase ack leethality next?:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Edbert ... the "sit in the tower cause you died" scenario will only make more people timid and avoid engagments at all costs. We have too much of that going on around here. I don't think that we need to increase it IMHO.
I see your point, but the timer thing WOULD help slow down the pork and auger crowd. So on top of the time we make you wait after a death/capt/bail/ditch/land scenario there would be an additional modifier. Say someting like a "minus one minute" for every kill and "minus 20 seconds" for every assist. That way, if you get 5 kills (or 4 kills and 3 assists) you can re-up immediately even though you died. We could also have a penalty of waiting a minute if you land with less than 2 kills in the bag, I mean, why fly home if you haven't killed anything? But landing with parts missing, or less than 5-10% fuel would be excused of course.
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Originally posted by Shane
mmbaaaaaarely, but yes.
LMAO! :rofl
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One problem with playing the waiting game... If you are upping from a field under heavy attack attempting to defend it your odds are slim of living, and most likely you have made the decision to try to defend at all costs. You get vulched and then you must wait what will seem like an eternity to be able to try again. Sometimes one or 2 people willing to accept some deaths are able to hold off a horde until help arrives. I personally dont see the waiting game helping at all, but hey it's only my 2 cents worth.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
My point is, Bishops do this, I have never seen a knight or rook do this. I'm sure the odd one has in someone's experience, but the tactic seems prevalent only among Bishops for some unknown reason as Mars01 mentioned.
Zazen
I usually fight rooks, so I can't comment about Knights. I spend some time in buffs sinking CVs and lately I've noticed this: I can take off from a semi-vulched field and if I can get 2 or 3k in altitude away from the field, frequently (not always) the vulchers ignore me. Instead, they turn to vulch the field (although they know I'm going to sink the CV.)
Zazen, you are seeing guys new to the game, anxious to score a few kills. It's very common among all new guys, Bishop, Knight or Rook. I see it all the time.
curly
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I fly on the deck under radar to vulch. This cuts down on the time it takes to climb to 20k, and catches the a pilot taking off, or sitting on the re-are pad by surprise:) If anyone is interested in learning this technique let me know and we can spend a few minutes in the TA...
AmReo
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Originally posted by Edbert MOL
I see your point, but the timer thing WOULD help slow down the pork and auger crowd. So on top of the time we make you wait after a death/capt/bail/ditch/land scenario there would be an additional modifier. Say someting like a "minus one minute" for every kill and "minus 20 seconds" for every assist. That way, if you get 5 kills (or 4 kills and 3 assists) you can re-up immediately even though you died. We could also have a penalty of waiting a minute if you land with less than 2 kills in the bag, I mean, why fly home if you haven't killed anything? But landing with parts missing, or less than 5-10% fuel would be excused of course.
The 'timer thing' only has to do with countries numbers, that's a different thread. I don't think these guys should be penalized, they need to be taught to fight.
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Originally posted by RTR
Knock it off.
RTR
Ummm, give me a break! Feel free to lean forward and kiss my arse! You almost made me choke on my coffee while I read that.
Zazen
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AmReo, if you would like to learn a better way to kill than vulching, I highly recommend the Training Arena as well.
Vulching is an employable tactic, but is best suited to field capture. IE keep the field clear while the goon makes its run and drop.
Pretty much any other time, vulching is a pretty dangerous way to try to get a kill.
RTR
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Someone give Zazen the Heimlich.
He's choking on a statement.
RTR
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LOL REO,
At first I was thinking who the hell is Mojo, then I saw sig. hahaha.
We'll at least I wouldn't have to climb to 15K to kill ya lol. I would have to change countries tho hahaha.
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Originally posted by AKcurly
Zazen, you are seeing guys new to the game, anxious to score a few kills. It's very common among all new guys, Bishop, Knight or Rook. I see it all the time.
Please refrain from confusing Zazen with the facts. He has enough trouble in Zazenland. ;)
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Originally posted by RTR
Someone give Zazen the Heimlich.
He's choking on a statement.
RTR
What's your in-game ID?
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
slapshot please tell what your idea on how to stop this is. The time is is the only logical way to stop this. what increase ack leethality next?:rolleyes:
Skull ... honestly ... there is no way for me or you to stop this.
The responsibilty lies in their hands. If someone wants to stop this type of dweebery and learn how to fight, I can help with that, but if they don't want to learn how to fight, then there is no way to stop it.
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Originally posted by AKcurly
Zazen, you are seeing guys new to the game, anxious to score a few kills. It's very common among all new guys, Bishop, Knight or Rook. I see it all the time.
curly
Nice try except for one minor problem. I make it my personal agenda to re-plane these chaps at every possible opportunity. They are NOT newbies, they are people that have been playing a at least as long as I have, perhaps even longer. I don't think most newbies are familiar enough with the game to even conceive of doing this. You have to be fairly comfortable exploiting your energy advantage and disciplined enough to refuse to engage cons you encounter on the way to the base you are intending to vulch. The idea that newbies are the ones that do this is patently false.
Zazen
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You are new in these here parts are ya Zazen?
RTR
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Originally posted by mojo55
I fly on the deck under radar to vulch. This cuts down on the time it takes to climb to 20k, and catches the a pilot taking off, or sitting on the re-are pad by surprise:) If anyone is interested in learning this technique let me know and we can spend a few minutes in the TA...
AmReo
You are a classic Reo !!! <> Bud
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Slapshot, I agree. there really is nothing you or I can do to stop it. All we can do is offer a helping hand. Wether the help is accepted or not is up to them.
Should I spit out Reo's hook now? (dang! that was a sharp one too!) Reo.
RTR
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Originally posted by RTR
You are new in these here parts are ya Zazen?
RTR
Please tell me your in-game ID is not RTR? If so, everything makes complete sense now. I understand why you react the way you do. The records of your performance are even more laughable than your comments on the BBS, my apologies. I had no business even commenting to anything you posted. I will not continue to make that mistake! I mistook you for someone who had the first foggy clue wtf you were talking about.Have a nice day! ;)
Zazen
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ROFL Zazen!!!
Don't let the numbers confuse you.
Thanks for the chuckle.
RTR
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Nice try except for one minor problem. I make it my personal agenda to re-plane these chaps at every possible opportunity. They are NOT newbies, they are people that have been playing a at least as long as I have, perhaps even longer. I don't think most newbies are familiar enough with the game to even conceive of doing this. You have to be fairly comfortable exploiting your energy advantage and disciplined enough to refuse to engage cons you encounter on the way to the base you are intending to vulch. The idea that newbies are the ones that do this is patently false.
Zazen
Come on !!! With just a few flights with the horde, and this becomes part of their fabric.
Conversly, I am not a newbie, and if I made such a run, I doubt very strongly that you or anybody would be able to re-plane me unless you had a significant alt advantage. I tend to agree that its mostly newbs that use this technique.
Just last month I launched from a base and got vulched by a La-7. I immediately upped again to only watch him scream away with 2 guys on his butt. He then gets the opportunity to come back and make another pass before I kill him ... the other 2 guys were pissed ... hehe.
After I killed him I flew towards his base. About 1/2 there I see an La-7 on the water. I drop down and kill him ... same guy. I regain alt continue on and guess what ... yup ... same guy ... same result. I killed him seven times in a row. I finally asked him how long ago he started playing ... response ... "3 weeks ago".
He kept doing it and I finally got bored killing him.
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I don't think most newbies are familiar enough with the game to even conceive of doing this. You have to be fairly comfortable exploiting your energy advantage and disciplined enough to refuse to engage cons you encounter on the way to the base you are intending to vulch. The idea that newbies are the ones that do this is patently false.
You make it hard not to jump on you Zazen.
Just because there are some old hands that do this does not mean that there are unmistakenly no newbs that do this. Sheesh. When you make statments like these your gonna get a response.
Do you really think e management is so difficult that a new guy cant figure out how to climb high pass over everyone and dive on a runway. Wow that's a tough skill lol.
I agree some old hands do make a living out of the vulch, but I do think this is mostly a newb phenom.
Maybe there isn't anyhting we can do, just wait till they realize there is a better more rewarding way to fly.
Ohh and BTW RTR's first post was dead on.:aok
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Originally posted by Edbert MOL
I like it too sirloin, but I don't think it will do much to prevent what Mars started this thread about.
Death; you wait 4 minutes till next sortie
Capture; 3
Bail; 2
Ditch; 1
Land; 0
The penalty/benefit of all these outcomes is modeled in the way points and perks are given/taken now, but I'll wager half of the arean doesn't give a rat's arse about points or perks.
So now the Sunday night rook horde will have no one to fight?
Gang bang enough of the arena and things are going to get
very very dull.
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As a bish all I can say is Bish have been default throughout summer term. Had it been Rooks as default or Kights I would summise that a Bish would have started this thread.
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Lynx this is not just a Bish problem, I apologize if some get that idea. It just happened to be the Bish I was fighting against last night. The Rooks and Knights have the same problem as well.
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Originally posted by Rino
So now the Sunday night rook horde will have no one to fight?
Gang bang enough of the arena and things are going to get
very very dull.
If the arean is unbalanced to the point where there's nothing to fight then do what I do...head to the CT :D
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Originally posted by Zazen13
What's your in-game ID?
LOL! So you can run and hide from him when he's online?
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Please tell me your in-game ID is not RTR? If so, everything makes complete sense now. I understand why you react the way you do. The records of your performance are even more laughable than your comments on the BBS, my apologies. I had no business even commenting to anything you posted. I will not continue to make that mistake! I mistook you for someone who had the first foggy clue wtf you were talking about.Have a nice day! ;)
Zazen
Ahhh...Zazen's reading tea leaves again.
RTR- this is a commen defense of Zazen when he realizes that he is out classed in the skills department. He did this in AW and he's doing it in here. The true reason he wanted your call sign was so that he can check the roster and see if you're on. If you were on, he'd fly on the opposite side of the map and hide.
The funny thing, for all of Zazen's finger pointing, he's no better then the players doing what is described in this thread. That's why he puts so much emphasis on his stats, to give him that false sense of uberness.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by mars01
You make it hard not to jump on you Zazen.
Just because there are some old hands that do this does not mean that there are unmistakenly no newbs that do this. Sheesh. When you make statments like these your gonna get a response.
Do you really think e management is so difficult that a new guy cant figure out how to climb high pass over everyone and dive on a runway. Wow that's a tough skill lol.
I agree some old hands do make a living out of the vulch, but I do think this is mostly a newb phenom.
Maybe there isn't anyhting we can do, just wait till they realize there is a better more rewarding way to fly.
Ohh and BTW RTR's first post was dead on.:aok
I didn't mean to imply no person new to the game can and do, do this.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Ahhh...Zazen's reading tea leaves again.
RTR- this is a commen defense of Zazen when he realizes that he is out classed in the skills department. He did this in AW and he's doing it in here. The true reason he wanted your call sign was so that he can check the roster and see if you're on. If you were on, he'd fly on the opposite side of the map and hide.
The funny thing, for all of Zazen's finger pointing, he's no better then the players doing what is described in this thread. That's why he puts so much emphasis on his stats, to give him that false sense of uberness.
ack-ack
Coming from someone who actually does make their way as a vulcher, I take this is a compliment! ;) TY!
Zazen
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Originally posted by Zazen13
What's your in-game ID?
why u gonna come down from yer 35k perch to vulch him you cheecken shhet?
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Originally posted by X2Lee
why u gonna come down from yer 35k perch to vulch him you cheecken shhet?
Im sorry I meant to say cheery pick
Ur to scared to fly in the acks or down low :D
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Of course its not country specific, its skill specific.
It really sucks when you are looking for a fight, fly out to meet the incoming cons only for them to blow by in their late war rides to vulch spawning aircraft. HTC needs to change the code to not allow kills of aircraft on the airstrip to appear in radio buffer. A small incentive to teach the new guys to actually engage once in awhile.
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LOL Ack-Ack.
I don't really care what he does with information he gets from my Cpid.
As far as running and hiding...ahh well, if he is as good as he says he is he wouldn't do that. In fact I don't really care one way or the other. Run, hide, look for me online, or just carry on with the vulch fest. Makes no difference to me.
I have no idea what his skills are, and really don't care. I can generally take care of myself in a 1V1.
The only real problem I have, is the idea that you can assign a personality type to someone, based on a chess piece in a game.
We are seeing psychology being practiced and preached by someone who doesn't even know for sure who they, themselves are.
At anyrate, it doesn't really matter in the end. I don't normally fly at 30K, or up from a vulched field (more than once or twice..hehe..slow learner sometimes), so we obviously have a different objective.
cheers,
RTR
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Coming from someone who actually does make their way as a vulcher, I take this is a compliment! ;) TY!
Zazen
I make my way as a vulcher? Really? Don't tell me you've been shadowing Lev and I again under your shades account, Lexus.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by SunKing
Of course its not country specific, its skill specific.
It really sucks when you are looking for a fight, fly out to meet the incoming cons only for them to blow by in their late war rides to vulch spawning aircraft. HTC needs to change the code to not allow kills of aircraft on the airstrip to appear in radio buffer. A small incentive to teach the new guys to actually engage once in awhile.
If you really want to put a damper on vulching, you'd give the plane that spawns a 15 second invulnerability time. This would also put a serious crimp in GV spawn camping. Personally, I would not like to see such a feature but it is a successfully proven feature in other games.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by RTR
The only real problem I have, is the idea that you can assign a personality type to someone, based on a chess piece in a game.
We are seeing psychology being practiced and preached by someone who doesn't even know for sure who they, themselves are.
cheers,
RTR
You can't, just like you can't base skill on someone's rank or score.
ack-ack
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This is simply a skill level. It's where they are "at" in the learning curve. The only way to "fix" this behavior is to train them. Time and experience usually fixes this.
oh, and all countries have pilots that do this. it isn't country "specific".
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It is usually the noob who makes a pass from an alt advantage realizes that he wont kill anyone high continues his dive through the masses vulches the runway zooms up where more experienced players are waiting to blow his butt up.
Also I have noticed a trend here of experienced players wanting to look up other players stats and compare them to theirs to try and make themselves feel superior. Flying style affects score. The pilot who chooses to furball score might be less than that of a B and Z pilot. An Agressive players score might be less than the timid players score. So can we please drop the my score your score crap. ITS OLD
Oh and to save you the trouble I only have a 3 to 1 K/D so no I am not an AH god... But then again if I stop taking on fights where I am at a huge disadvantage maybe I could do better.
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This gets old fast huh?
Okay, I give up. I put my purse away.
Sure did have my "dander" up though! A rare event indeed!
Not sure what was in the other guys purse, but I smell like dried up old french pro.
:eek:
RTR
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Originally posted by SlapShot
The responsibilty lies in their hands. If someone wants to stop this type of dweebery and learn how to fight, I can help with that, but if they don't want to learn how to fight, then there is no way to stop it.
I agree with this. It may be annoying to see someone just swoop by and die, but I don't think it is a problem that requires a solution. If that's what they have fun doing...then let em. It's not like fuel porking where they can destroy the game with a suicide.
Going further, I think in some cases this type of thing stems from a fear of defeat. If you fight and die, then someone defeated you. If you vultch and auger, then no one defeated you.
But again that is an individual thing.
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lol - and the rooks dont do this -
6161fubar - and a lot of the JBs were doing this "runway"run technique in 190s the other night at a45....lol
pot calling the kettle black here.
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Originally posted by RTR
This gets old fast huh?
Okay, I give up. I put my purse away.
Sure did have my "dander" up though! A rare event indeed!
Not sure what was in the other guys purse, but I smell like dried up old french pro.
:eek:
RTR
Jamusta's comments weren't directed at you but at Zazen. It's a common defense of his to spew his stats in a rather pathetic attempt to prove he's actually good. And when the other person's stats or rank are better that his, he accuses the other person of 'making their way as a vulcher'.
It's rather funny though. For all the work Zazen puts into the game like getting shades accounts to follow other players and other crap like that, he still sucks. But then, what else do you expect from a player that has said, "Why learn ACM whe you can game the game?" I think that statement pretty much sums up Zazen.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
"Why learn ACM whe you can game the game?" I think that statement pretty much sums up Zazen.
ack-ack
I've never said such a thing in my life. You're just making stuff up! Pretty silly stuff. :rolleyes:
Zazen
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Blessed be the Bish ... they make easy prey.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Blessed be the Bish ... they make easy prey.
Amen! :aok
<> Bishops
Zazen
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Originally posted by Zazen13
I've never said such a thing in my life. You're just making stuff up! Pretty silly stuff. :rolleyes:
Zazen
Nope, was a quote from you in a thread you posted in when you accused Lev of being nothing but a talentless vulcher and admitted to shadowing him around in a shades account.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
slapshot please tell what your idea on how to stop this is. The time is is the only logical way to stop this. what increase ack leethality next?:rolleyes:
There is no way to stop this if we are too lazy to use the obvious tactics as you mentioned earlier.
But try watching the Darbar a little closer and get into "Intercept posistion early with a fast "Interceptor and the problem is solved.
Also if anyone is sooo concerned about this type of dweebery?
Then id recomend practicing your Air Patrol Skills. Yes a real life "Patrol" CAP (Combat Air Patrol)
There really are answers to these so called "Problems" Its just that most of us dont like the answers. Instead we want everyone flying at the speed and alt we are. I appears that these "Dweebs" have fouind a new source of fun. If we dont like it...its time we work on ways to stop it ourselves. It really is easy to stop..if you want to take the time to pay attention to your DAR and take early measures to stop it.
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Originally posted by RTR
Someone give Zazen the Heimlich.
He's choking on a statement.
RTR
Cant we give him a cracker instead?:D
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
There really are answers to these so called "Problems" Its just that most of us dont like the answers. Instead we want everyone flying at the speed and alt we are. I appears that these "Dweebs" have fouind a new source of fun. If we dont like it...its time we work on ways to stop it ourselves. It really is easy to stop..if you want to take the time to pay attention to your DAR and take early measures to stop it.
Here you hit the nail on the head perfectly.
Exeryone seems to want everyone else to play the game the way THEY think it should be played and according to their rules. And anyone that doesnt is a vulch,pork,furball,strat,timid,altmonkee,GV, etc etc etc "Dweeb" And something must be done about them.
Flying prefrences and styles are only limited by the amount of people that there are playing and HTC has wisely chosen to let the players fix their own problems.
the problem is as you said. Most dont like the solutions.
Mostly because it takes them away from playing the game the way they want to play it. Which as often as not is the other guys dweebery.
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mugzeee
There really are answers to these so called "Problems" Its just that most of us dont like the answers. Instead we want everyone flying at the speed and alt we are. I appears that these "Dweebs" have fouind a new source of fun. If we dont like it...its time we work on ways to stop it ourselves. It really is easy to stop..if you want to take the time to pay attention to your DAR and take early measures to stop it.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Here you hit the nail on the head perfectly.
Exeryone seems to want everyone else to play the game the way THEY think it should be played and according to their rules. And anyone that doesnt is a vulch,pork,furball,strat,timid,altmonkee,GV, etc etc etc "Dweeb" And something must be done about them.
Flying prefrences and styles are only limited by the amount of people that there are playing and HTC has wisely chosen to let the players fix their own problems.
the problem is as you said. Most dont like the solutions.
Mostly because it takes them away from playing the game the way they want to play it. Which as often as not is the other guys dweebery.
No you're both wrong and have no idea what we are talking about here. We are trying to identify and HELP these guys learn to fight. Not figure out how to shoot them down. That's easy.
Taking off flying straight to another base and getting 1 vulch kill (or not) and dying to ack is NOT a "flying style". It's total stupidity ie: someone who has no idea how to fight.
We would like to HELP these guys start their journey in ACM and become part of the community of A2A simmers, not just fly (as stated above) a month, say "this sucks" and leave.
Is that the intent of this thread mars or am I missing something?
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Jamusta's comments weren't directed at you but at Zazen.
RGR Ack-Ack I realise that sir. was just a comment after I had read through the whole thread again, and didn't like what I was reading (from myself included).
Jamusta, I hope you didn't read any criticism in my previous post. It was not meant to be directed at you sir.
As far as what was originally intended by this thread (before Zazen and I started swinging purses), the only way to stop this type of "dweebery" is by education. We gotta teach the noobs the finer points, or at least extend the hand and make the offer.
cheers,
RTR
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
There is no way to stop this if we are too lazy to use the obvious tactics as you mentioned earlier.
But try watching the Darbar a little closer and get into "Intercept posistion early with a fast "Interceptor and the problem is solved.
Also if anyone is sooo concerned about this type of dweebery?
Then id recomend practicing your Air Patrol Skills. Yes a real life "Patrol" CAP (Combat Air Patrol)
There really are answers to these so called "Problems" Its just that most of us dont like the answers. Instead we want everyone flying at the speed and alt we are. I appears that these "Dweebs" have fouind a new source of fun. If we dont like it...its time we work on ways to stop it ourselves. It really is easy to stop..if you want to take the time to pay attention to your DAR and take early measures to stop it.
Mugzee ... no offense bud, but I am so tired of hearing this answer.
I like the Spit V ... so I will take my Spit V to 15-20K and use my real Air Patrol Skills and look for incoming.
Ah ... I see a dot co-alt, so I fly towards it ... get an icon at 6K out ... it's a P-51.
I continue to close and stalk the P-51, gettting closer.
Now I am getting real close, so I start to make my move to engage.
Whoa ... whats this ?!?!? He puts his nose down to gain speed and then comes right at me with guns a'blazin' so I manouver to avoid the HO.
I look out the back and what has he done ... continued his nose down attitude and is now approaching 500mph.
Guess what ? ... there ain't no way in hell that I am going to catch this guy in my Spit V, and I would go as far as to say that even if I was in a P-51, I still would not catch this guy.
That worked great !!!
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Here you hit the nail on the head perfectly.
Exeryone seems to want everyone else to play the game the way THEY think it should be played and according to their rules. And anyone that doesnt is a vulch,pork,furball,strat,timid,altmonkee,GV, etc etc etc "Dweeb" And something must be done about them.
Flying prefrences and styles are only limited by the amount of people that there are playing and HTC has wisely chosen to let the players fix their own problems.
the problem is as you said. Most dont like the solutions.
Mostly because it takes them away from playing the game the way they want to play it. Which as often as not is the other guys dweebery.
DRED ... don't get Holyier than thou on us ... you are as guilty of the above just like everyone else.
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No not really. as much as I hate to agree with him on just about anything Zazen is right about one thing.
there are experianced players who also do the same thing. I witnessed such an incident last night and got 3 proxie kills on people I have personally known to be here since before I have. And these guys are NOt pork and auger types. Oh and just for the record. they were ALL Rooks
And While I never auger intentionally have done tis myself.
some of the reasoning behind such a move is to create a delay of aircraft at an enemy base from getting to your own base so more friendlies can be up to meet the threat. Typically happens when one side starts getting an advantage over another
Or to keep the enemy low so a larger force behind you can come in with little or no resistance
Typically when you dive in on a base to pork,vulch or whatever you immediately become everyones target of choice. And if there are 10 planes that just upped you can be sure that at least 8 of them will develop tunnelvision and start chasing you around often ignoring that large blob thats comming in behind you. Now thats 8 less planes headed to your airfeild, or 8 less planes getting alt to meet an incomming threat.
I see this all the time on all sides.
As for flying past another aircraft then diving down. Well speaking for myself. If my plan is to come down to an enemy base for some kind pork or delaying action. My stopping to engage you just cause your there is counter productive to my objective.
Ive seen entire squads avaid the fight so they could reach their objective. why should individual planes be any different.
The newbie may be a large portion of the people that do this. And yes they need help form some of the more experianced players But it is far from being the only kind that do it.
And outside of the newbies. there are solutions. some already use them and speaking from experince are quite good at it.
but its just as we've said. Most dont like the solutions etc etc
Originally posted by DipStick
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mugzeee
There really are answers to these so called "Problems" Its just that most of us dont like the answers. Instead we want everyone flying at the speed and alt we are. I appears that these "Dweebs" have fouind a new source of fun. If we dont like it...its time we work on ways to stop it ourselves. It really is easy to stop..if you want to take the time to pay attention to your DAR and take early measures to stop it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No you're both wrong and have no idea what we are talking about here. We are trying to identify and HELP these guys learn to fight. Not figure out how to shoot them down. That's easy.
Taking off flying straight to another base and getting 1 vulch kill (or not) and dying to ack is NOT a "flying style". It's total stupidity ie: someone who has no idea how to fight.
We would like to HELP these guys start their journey in ACM and become part of the community of A2A simmers, not just fly (as stated above) a month, say "this sucks" and leave.
Is that the intent of this thread mars or am I missing something?
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Well if veterans are indeed doing this crap then this game is going down hill fast. If this is the "Great strategy" that is part of 'winning' the war' - I'm glad I have no part in it. The game needs a serious revamping as to strategic targets and other gameplay issues.
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Veterans do it... a LOT. I watched a whole flight of Rook veterans do this at a knight field two nights ago. I was totally beside myself, basically screaming over local vox "WTF are you guys doing?" I'm sure noobs do it too, since it is the "easy" way to get kills, especially when they see now a majority of the players doing it, they naturally follow suit w/ the pack. Heck, I always thought the easy way to amass huge kill tallies was to take out the high guys first, then the low guys are meat. What do I know though. :rolleyes:
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Well if there are that many Old Hands doing this then, public humiliation seems the only possible solution and the community as a whole needs to point them out and shun this kind of cowardice and lack of skill.
I think a as community we need to pull together on more of these issues and bring offenders to the surface.
I also think there needs to be a public push in the MA to get people on these message boards. New life, ideas and views on these boards could be refreshing change as well as getting info out to improve game play and etiquette.
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Zazen you developing a nice fan base for you fanclub keep up the good work..
:)
actually I notice this behavior of flying around doing nothing on all countries, the bish imo used to do it most (they had numbers go figure) but after last night with some 180 rooks barely holding our last island from capture when we used to do it with 50 for about three hours back during the gauntlet.. my stock in rook dominion is wanning. Were getting to many newbs. and their pathetic tactics are starting to show.. exp:
You guys blow our radar, well guess what the whole country just about shuts down.. Im like "wtf get in the air move do something.." "be a target drone just get in the damn air.." finally fear goes away and we get in the air and guess what.. with all the cap in the air our radar comes back up , lo and behold ...
next sortie...
people are trying to do attack mission on the port well SOP would dictate get some airsuperiority and then go blow the port to high hell... well guess what im the only one aircap and i get overwelmed by 3 109's I keep telling need help nw of port..(im fighting them while calling this in..)(old rook army would have 3-5 cap on demand (supercruise) to defend thats what you had to do when 150 vs 150 vs 50..) calls go un heeded (actually glasses made a funny comment but other than that zombies) well i finally get bagged and guess where those 3 fighters go proceed to do, stall the attack on the port..kill the first wave of attackers.. and delay our conquest.. Im thinking weee....... brilliant fellas we out number them 3to1 and you duds would rather drop you 1k of bombs then successfully cap the mission.. stupidity like this and i had enough.. current rook mentality seems to be "someone else will take care of it.." and that crap is weak......
give me 50 rooks who used to fight in the gauntlet over the 180 with 60% newbs any day of the week..
the freaking Rooks are becomming what we hate the most and thats the bishops... Lemming horde freaks....Like revenge of the nerds that character Ogre who would go" NEEERDDDssss.. "just insert "dweeeeeeeeeebs" and thats me personified.... (as i smash a aluminum can on my forehead..)
Im now back with the knits to balance the horde (also seeing the slob tactics first hand i dont think it will be that hard to rack kills against them.. numbers or not) Mindless drones going from one target to the next are worked mess hall bacon in my eyes..
if the tactics and numbers improve in rookland then ill go back until then death to em....
DoctorYo
PS: Zazen I'll try not to kill you but I give no promises..
:aok
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Why it when a team, or opposing team pilots don't fly the way YOU want them to it is a problem?
If someone wants to bypass airborne cons to vultch, isn't that his/her prerogative?
If someone wants to exclusively fly spits or la7's, why is this a problem? Are you having a hard time killing them in a 190-d9?
I'm not being sarcastic, I really want a valid reason why it's a problem.
Doesn't it make sense to use the most effective tool/tactic for the job?
Seriously, some people need to quit trying to arm-chair general the game and just get on with it. You know the game, you know what can and can't be done.
I think the real issues in the game have more to do with things like net lag, unbalanced team numbers and the like. But for crying out loud, quit whining when an la7 shoots you down in your 190 or p-51.
If you want to master the 190, fine, be my guest, but don't expect to be able to fly it like an la7 or a spit. It's an apples to oranges comparison.
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Originally posted by DoctorYO
give me 50 rooks who used to fight in the gauntlet over the 180 with 60% newbs any day of the week..
Hmm, I think some of us are now knights, :D
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Lynx this is not just a Bish problem, I apologize if some get that idea. It just happened to be the Bish I was fighting against last night. The Rooks and Knights have the same problem as well.
Not according to Zazen :rolleyes:
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Why it when a team, or opposing team pilots don't fly the way YOU want them to it is a problem?
Ummm No one Said this. Nice try tho.
If someone wants to bypass airborne cons to vultch, isn't that his/her prerogative?
Yes, I'm sure this game and the community can benfit from people climbing to 15k diving to a runway and dieing. :rolleyes: I guess your one vote for this is an ok way to fly.
If someone wants to exclusively fly spits or la7's, why is this a problem? Are you having a hard time killing them in a 190-d9? Doesn't it make sense to use the most effective tool/tactic for the job?
This has nothing to do with this thread. This thread is not about what people fly (RIF)
Seriously, some people need to quit trying to arm-chair general the game and just get on with it. You know the game, you know what can and can't be done.
I think the real issues in the game have more to do with things like net lag, unbalanced team numbers and the like. But for crying out loud, quit whining when an la7 shoots you down in your 190 or p-51.
If you want to master the 190, fine, be my guest, but don't expect to be able to fly it like an la7 or a spit. It's an apples to oranges comparison.
Are you sure your posting in the right thread. This thread is about people bypassing con for which they have an advantage and most times a 1 on 1 fight to dive into inevitable suicide to make some weak vulch passes and die.
This thread has nothing to do with what plane they are flying.
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No I didnt RTR.
But to add to a solution to the noobs, the only solution is time. Sooner or later they will develop enough skill to correct this themselves. There is nothing we can do as a community unless they seek our help. As for the pilots who have been around awhile that still do this, well you have to want to learn. Now if you just so happen to get a noob in your squad then you can help them. I tell noobs in my squad to never dive below the highest enemy.
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Well said Mars... exactly right, this thread is all about guys who would rather bypass a 1 on 1 or a couple cons that are actually in the air, that are a threat, instead to vulch quickly and die. It really sucks for gameplay, as has been discussed above.
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if i recall, yesterday Bob49 did exactly that to me as i was landing at a9.
For zazens benefit, Bob49 is a rook :rolleyes:
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This is definately not just a Bish problem.
Lost count of the number of Rook/Knit P51s,La7s,190s etc that come in at 20k+ and you know whats coming next. Yup they scream in go right down the runway spraying and keep going. Have taken to sitting far side of runway at about 10k in a Tiffy to try and catch them.
In fact few nights ago in a Hurri 2c at 17k or so saw 5 Rook P51s a few k below a few miles from our base. So I dove on them, they all nosed down straight into the field. Not picking on Rooks just using something that stuck in my mind as an example, as I said it is not country specific.
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Yup, they don't dive to get away, they dive to vulch, and then die seconds after. Why not stay up and have a good fight before dying?
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Originally posted by Stang
Yup, they don't dive to get away, they dive to vulch, and then die seconds after. Why not stay up and have a good fight before dying?
Somebody already said it, but I will repeat the best I can ...
It is probably much easier for one to accept death by augering and at their own hand, than to accept death at the hand of someone else.
Timid ... wu$$y ... chicken-chit ... scaredy-cat ... it has a million faces.
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Originally posted by RTR
the only way to stop this type of "dweebery" is by education. We gotta teach the noobs the finer points, or at least extend the hand and make the offer.
cheers,
RTR
You are correct. Proper training will help cut down on this tactic but it won't eliminate it. What AH needs is a formal training program, very much like the ones AW and WB had. These were very successful and widely used by new players which all resulted in better game play. AW and WB has proven that a formal training program does work and is beneficial to the players, new and old, as well as the game.
I'd even go a step further and add a newbie arena for new players only, similiar to the one AW had. The AW n00b arena helped the new players cut their teeth without having to be fodder in the main arenas. There were safe guards in place to prevent veteran players to use the n00b arena as their personal seal pup bashing place. Again, this is another successfully tested option that can only help the players and the community.
Oh yea...and get rid of auto-flaps!
ack-ack
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Originally posted by DipStick
Well if veterans are indeed doing this crap then this game is going down hill fast. If this is the "Great strategy" that is part of 'winning' the war' - I'm glad I have no part in it. The game needs a serious revamping as to strategic targets and other gameplay issues.
Usually the veteran players that do this are the same ones that did it as n00bs. Don't hate them, for they know not better...feel pity for them for they should know better.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by DipStick
No you're both wrong and have no idea what we are talking about here. We are trying to identify and HELP these guys learn to fight. Not figure out how to shoot them down. That's easy.
Actually I do know what I am talking about.
Employing the methods that I mentioned would very soon teach this type of pilot that his tactic isn’t fool proof. And after he has exhausted yet another so called dweeby tactic. He might consider taking tips from someone as your self.
DipStick. Your willingness to help or teach new players admirable.
Anyone that knows me on a more personal basis in the game know above all else. I am a teacher at heart. If I know how, when or what…just ask and I will share it with you.
Actually i go out of my way very often to teach a new skill or a new finding. Be it ACM...or Game features.
But you certainly do not think you are speaking for everyone on this thread?
I mean seriously…reading it carefully it is easy to pick out the Helpers from the ones that just want the. Fight and perhapes take the kill.
Lets take a good look.
Originally posted by SlapShot
Mugzee ... no offense bud, but I am so tired of hearing this answer.
I like the Spit V ... so I will take my Spit V to 15-20K and use my real Air Patrol Skills and look for incoming.
Ah ... I see a dot co-alt, so I fly towards it ... get an icon at 6K out ... it's a P-51.
I continue to close and stalk the P-51, getting closer.
Now I am getting real close, so I start to make my move to engage.
Whoa ... whats this ?!?!? He puts his nose down to gain speed and then comes right at me with guns a'blazin' so I manouver to avoid the HO.
I look out the back and what has he done ... continued his nose down attitude and is now approaching 500mph.
Guess what ? ... there ain't no way in hell that I am going to catch this guy in my Spit V, and I would go as far as to say that even if I was in a P-51, I still would not catch this guy.
That worked great !!!
That should suffice.
Slapshot…No offense.
But what in do know is that you need to fly a High-speed interceptor to ease you frustration of such occurrences.
The P51D, FW190 D-9, and such.
Have you ever thought that doing so would eventually prove the those Sky Screamers that their tactics wont work? And the end result would be that the so-called Dweebs would realize that they must learn fight their way to the target. In turn they would eventually realize that fighting is much more fun than they realized.
Again...no offense intended.
PS: If we want to train them.
Why haven’t we started a thread offering our personal time and services to do just that?
Hey look. There’s a novel idea. ;)
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
Actually I do know what I am talking about.
Employing the methods that I mentioned would very soon teach this type of pilot that his tactic isn’t fool proof. And after he has exhausted yet another so called dweeby tactic. He might consider taking tips from someone as your self.
DipStick. Your willingness to help or teach new players admirable.
Anyone that knows me on a more personal basis in the game know above all else. I am a teacher at heart. If I know how, when or what…just ask and I will share it with you.
Actually i go out of my way very often to teach a new skill or a new finding. Be it ACM...or Game features.
But you certainly do not think you are speaking for everyone on this thread?
I mean seriously…reading it carefully it is easy to pick out the Helpers from the ones that just want the. Fight and perhapes take the kill.
Lets take a good look.
That should suffice.
Slapshot…No offense.
But what in do know is that you need to fly a High-speed interceptor to ease you frustration of such occurrences.
The P51D, FW190 D-9, and such.
Have you ever thought that doing so would eventually prove the those Sky Screamers that their tactics wont work? And the end result would be that the so-called Dweebs would realize that they must learn fight their way to the target. In turn they would eventually realize that fighting is much more fun than they realized.
Again...no offense intended.
PS: If we want to train them.
Why haven’t we started a thread offering our personal time and services to do just that?
Hey look. There’s a novel idea. ;)
Cool ... now that we have the "no offense" thing squared away ... hehehe.
I did say ...
"Guess what ? ... there ain't no way in hell that I am going to catch this guy in my Spit V, and I would go as far as to say that even if I was in a P-51, I still would not catch this guy.
Had I been in a 262, yes I would have caught him and only in a 262 in this scenario. This scenario is very typical.
Ya know what ... I really don't like flying the P-51, I would rather stick sharp pencils in my eyes then fly one of those LW planes ... just my preference in what I don't really like to fly.
As far as helping people ... I am up for it if someone asks and sometimes I offer help/advise to the enemy when I feel that they can use it.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
As far as helping people ... I am up for it if someone asks and sometimes I offer help/advise to the enemy when I feel that they can use it.
And i salute you for it!
Thanks :)
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Mugzee ... no offense bud, but I am so tired of hearing this answer.
I like the Spit V ... so I will take my Spit V to 15-20K and use my real Air Patrol Skills and look for incoming.
Ah ... I see a dot co-alt, so I fly towards it ... get an icon at 6K out ... it's a P-51.
I continue to close and stalk the P-51, gettting closer.
Now I am getting real close, so I start to make my move to engage.
Whoa ... whats this ?!?!? He puts his nose down to gain speed and then comes right at me with guns a'blazin' so I manouver to avoid the HO.
I look out the back and what has he done ... continued his nose down attitude and is now approaching 500mph.
Guess what ? ... there ain't no way in hell that I am going to catch this guy in my Spit V, and I would go as far as to say that even if I was in a P-51, I still would not catch this guy.
That worked great !!!
Slap you and I live in the same world seems.:lol
ALTHOUGH.....I did have one of the best fights in a very long time today with a very good 51 flyer. BTcpr and I fought at ALT starting at 21k and never got below 14k. Was a wonderful fight that I enjoyed very Much. He is however 1 of very few that would do that. The rest dive away..6k..comback..dive away 6 k..comeback..Now Im outta gas..no fun.
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Mugs I wish you were correct, I have shot so many of these guys down it drives me nuts!!
Climb for 5 mins in a spit V , why cause there are no cons to chase in the area.
So now it's just me climbing away my prettythang hanging out etc. Then I see a dot. Looks high enough. keep climbing, dot definately has the alt advantage, hmm which to do level and gain speed try to get a little more alt and be slow.
Then all of a sudden is see the guy go into a steep dive, ok that was dumb, he just gave up alt advantage, cool.
I see he is going to dive under so I position to split S right on top of him...
If all goes well I am on his six an I will have a few seconds before he really starts pulling away.
If I don't the chase is on, is he heavy? Maybe I'll get him before he drops. Then I see him set up a vulch pass, speeding for the runway, think to myself hahaha no ones upping. There is a fight behind you tho. lol
Finally a few bad passes, since they don't have the patience to climb all the way out of danger, they give me an angle and blam he's dead.
Ok so I land a 4 kill sortie every one like above, climb back out, rinse, repeat etc.
To be honest I can get the same thing from the drones off line. The drones are a little less predictable too lolh. ZZZZZZZZ
If these guys would engage they might learn something about the planes, the game, some tactics and themselves. To be honest I suck one or two turns and I'm a gonner, but instead they play target and die instead.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
You are correct. Proper training will help cut down on this tactic but it won't eliminate it.
I really don't think it will help at all. They can only learn if they're willing to learn. And learning requires failure.
These folks know what they're doing. This ain't rocket science. They know that if they want to learn to fight they have to fight. They choose not to, and their idea of fun is something else.
So be it, I say. Live and let die.
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
Have you ever thought that doing so would eventually prove the those Sky Screamers that their tactics wont work? And the end result would be that the so-called Dweebs would realize that they must learn fight their way to the target. In turn they would eventually realize that fighting is much more fun than they realized.
I seriously doubt that. Much more likely they'll just grab more alt next time. Or head to another field. Or log off.
Again, they don't want to learn--their actions prove this. Maybe later they'll want to learn, and then they will.
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Originally posted by phookat
I really don't think it will help at all. They can only learn if they're willing to learn. And learning requires failure.
These folks know what they're doing. This ain't rocket science. They know that if they want to learn to fight they have to fight. They choose not to, and their idea of fun is something else.
So be it, I say. Live and let die.
You're right, you can only lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Same with new players, you can only give them the option of learning and let them take advantage of it. But you have to give them that option.
This ad-hoc training system that AH has might have been sufficient when AH was smaller but now it's not sufficient enough. If you do give a new player a viable option to receive some formal training in not only ACM but also in tactics and the other finer points of air combat, the majority will take it. Again, that was proven in Air Warrior and in Warbirds.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by SlapShot
DRED ... don't get Holyier than thou on us ... you are as guilty of the above just like everyone else.
LOL Im not. We already have one to many of those LOL
And Yes I am.
I beleive I did say "Everyone":)
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Originally posted by DipStick
Well if veterans are indeed doing this crap then this game is going down hill fast. If this is the "Great strategy" that is part of 'winning' the war' - I'm glad I have no part in it. The game needs a serious revamping as to strategic targets and other gameplay issues.
Not only are the veterans doing it.
But the names of some of the veterans I've seen do it would probably surprise you
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Hehehe waffle it's interesting you should say that about the JB's, i was going to mention it myself.
BTW they are a rook squadron as you well know zazen.:p
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Careful or he'll get his stats out and start talking about psychological imperatives again ZZzzzzzz.......
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What's this? A thread about P51 & LA7 dweebery? People not flying *your* way? Well what do you expect! After all, those are the dweeb rides. I thought you knew that! I've told you enough times. ;)
Hehe, whenever you see a P51 or LA7, at least you'll know it's not me.
:aok
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What's this? A thread about P51 & LA7 dweebery? People not flying *your* way? Well what do you expect! After all, those are the dweeb rides. I thought you knew that! I've told you enough times.
Beet1e,
Reading comprehension was never your strong suite.
Try again at reading the thread.
This thread is not about what people fly and that being a problem.
Sheesh talk about reading one thing and only comprehending what you want it to read. You are such a woman, only hear what you want no matter how stupid you look. WTG :aok :lol
Beetle = Second vote for this being a good way to fly. That says alot about you. :rofl
Hehe, whenever you see a P51 or LA7, at least you'll know it's not me.
Youd have to come below 15k for me to see you :rofl :aok
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LOL Beetle!
Go back and actually read the thread from the beginning.
Don't make me go get my purse again!
Cheers, (Srry Beet, but thanks for the morning giggle)
RTR
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Hello everyone. My name is jamusta...
(group replies) "Hello jamusta.."
I fly the p51 and I am a dweeb...(as tears roll)
(group replies) "Its ok jamusta we have all been there."
I try to stay away from the p51 by flying the f6f, but she keeps calling me and calling me...(crying)
(group replies) "No No jamusta, we know its not easy, just take it one day at a time..."
But I'm scared...HUG ME...
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:lol :lol :lol
Too funny Jam.
I crack up when people cry about what planes others fly. Who cares as long as they fight.:aok
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I tried flying a spit9 last night was fighting a p51 ofcourse ended up nose down chasing it. Compressed, slowed it down pulled the same move I would have done in a p51 blacked out and crashed.. Forget about it, I upped a p51 and proceded to kill everything in site, Spits, 109's, Lancs...I guess thats why I am CO of a 51 squad even tho I cant get them to fly p51's...
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LOL, yeah it took me a little while to get over that with the spits.
I wish they would add more skins for the other planes. 51D has some awsome skins.