Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: sparviero on October 21, 1999, 01:38:00 PM
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Sorry to come back on this issue, but I was thinking about again and again. I'm the sort of user, I think, who really loves a very well done Sim like AH seems to become. On the other side I'm not the kind of user who spends the major part of his free time flying around in the net (that's maybe the major reason why I'm a sort of an on-line-drone...:-) To be clear, in WB I spend some 12 to 20 $/month. In peak times, during winter a.s.o. I may spend over 30$ as well, but what in August, when it's Holiday? maybe I'd spend three hours in the whole month...Therefore my 2Cents.
30$/months are roughly 1$/day,
therefore:
option 1)bill at a daily cost of 1$;-)
option 2)establish a socket, let's say 10$ for a certain amount of hour above which you bill at 1 or 2 $/hour up to the flat rate of 30$, meaning in no case above 30$/month, the month being the billing cycle...
I understand that for some people 30$ are peanuts, but, oh dear, only for some! If I had a billing system as above i would rather come closer to 30$/month most of the times exept in summer, maybe, but the psychologival impact would be far lower. Can you imagine the frustration of being on a boring businnes trip knowing that your AH-money is running without any possibility for you to enjoy what you are paying? :-)
I'd like some comments on this subject, thank you
Luigi "falco" Pacetti
WB's 4°Stormo Caccia
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It is just a guess on my part, but they got to charge enough to make it worth while.
Some percentage of your $30.00 per month might be actually be needed as income for a HTC employee.
If the Government would just lower taxes everyone would be more happy. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Mino
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My $2.00E-02:
There are a lot of guys (I'm guessing 100 or so) who play Warbirds to the tune of $150 or $300 a month. A lot of these guys are influential squad leaders, BBS loudmouths, etc.
If the product is anywhere close to Warbirds in quality, these guys are going to switch because they will be able to feed the addiction for much less cash.
So with the $30/month plan, HTC has basically guaranteed themselves a nucleus of 100 or so hardcore players.
I don't know if that's what they are shooting for or not, but I'm pretty sure it will happen if the product improves sufficiently before it goes pay.
Also I'm sure the $30/month will be subject to modification if the revenues are different than HTC's projections.
But starting at $30/month will give them a free shot at the WB addicts.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 10-21-1999).]
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Funked, don't forget about the other 1000 hardcores that would spend 150 to 300/month if they could afford it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) They'll be in here too.
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Good point Kats
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HTC will not be a success if they only get the addicts as customers, there just are not enough of them. They would do well to have a few thousand casual cutomers who contribute huge revenues per month as a group. Students , and people from other countries such as Canada, Australia etc. where 30 U.S. dollars translates into a lot more [approx. 50 Canadian] could be loyal HTC customers if their fees reflected their actual use, and they could control their monthly spending by controlling their on-line time. Also, busines s travellers like myself would not have to feel foolish by paying a fee even though they are away from home for extended periods and unable to fly. We can then fly our buns off when we get back, and HTC would get the revenue, and everyone is happy!! Just my personal thoughts for your consideration.
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I have thought about this topic alot over the time I have played here. I am from Canada myself, I am totally addicted here (I learned to fly a plane on this sim ok) but I have to agree on this point. $30 dollars US is a whole whack of cash for an online game for me.
Now I am not at all claiming this is too much for you Americans. If I lived in the USA it would seem more reasonable to me. But here I think WB and AH have a major divirgence. Whereas WB seems to be a majority of Americans playing it, in AH at least 30 to 50 percent are not from the US. Most are from Canada, Germany, Italy, England and Russia as well as places like Brazil and Japan and Taiwan. For the rest of us not in the US your conversion puts AH's rather low monthly fee in a different perspective.
As previously mentioned with exchange playing AH would be something like $50 cdn for me, thats the price of a new game right from the store. Only it's every month. I imagine others look at this similarly. This would require deep pockets for playing any period of time. Plus it would practically kill anyone from trying to learn the game as I have over a period of weeks.
I have to mention that I detest the idea of scaled pricing, per day, per hour etc. I don't think that is a solution to the problem. Neither is dropping the price to a point where HiTech can't make money doing this.
This is my solution: When HiTech decides to close the Beta and start charging they could consider setting up seperate billing for different countries. This is easier than it sounds. Most people will be paying Online, all that would be required is that there be an account for their credit card in a bank within their country. Hence no exchange, prices can be scaled to approximatly what $30US is to you americans in the USA.
On the upside HiTech would keep most of their far flung members and in high numbers. Since the bank can tell where the card is originating it can be setup to avoid people charging outside their country for a cheaper exchange.
On the downside, HiTech has to actually do the paperwork and handle the complications involved with arranging their billing through several seperate financial institutions. Also they will of course gain less money after exchange and charges, from the people outside the US who play the game.
In the end I am sure HiTech will find a solution that keeps as many of us as possible here. They are committed so far to building a new community, not wooing away those people paying hundreds a month to play WB. With their current trend I feel it very likely they will do something to make it easier for the non-US pilots to play.
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This has been discussed before.
Please, no one take offense, but US$30 is $US30 is US$30 no matter where you are from. So is US$2.00/hour or whatever WB plan one is one.
I too am Canadian. Until last month or so I was regularly paying US$50 - US$60 a month for WB. Aces High therefore seems like a good deal in my case.
The reason there are a lot of non-Americans playing currently is likely the fact that it is free. As soon as people have to start to pay for it a lot of people will disappear, American or otherwise. Then it becomes a personal issue: is it worth the money for an individual?
For WB'ers that play more than 18 hours a month, guaranteed that it is. For those that play less, it may be if they are willing to pay for the flight model and other new features. For some AW3 players, they may be willing to join for the extra features of AH and knowing they can support their unending habit for a fixed price without looking at the clock.
Exchange rates only[/i] become an issue when you have the ability to pay for two different games in two different currencies. Since we are paying for WB, AW3, MS FA, in $US and will be for AH, the only point of comparison is the dollar figure and the sims themselves.
If German and UK WB servers are paid for in DM or Pounds (don't know myself), then there is a valid point for those consumers about exchange rates. It doesn't affect anyone else though. Plus, don't hold your breath that HTC can control world economics and the fluctuation of interest and currency rates. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) If they start charging different rates for consumers in different countries then they fall victim to changing rates and profitability has less to do with how many players they have and more how the markets are doing. That's one of the major reasons for the development of the Euro-dollar -- since Europe is competing as a group against America, Asia, etc., why lose money on exchange rates internally?
Finally, I would rather have HTC working on some amazing new Typhoon model than on billing code. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Cheerio,
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phaetnAT
Aces High Alpha Tester
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I agree with phaetn(have I written the right way?) 30US$ are 30US$ everywhere, you would have the exchange rate factor influencing your payments also if HTC would set up the prices for each country in theyr currency at a given time and holding them for a while. If in this time the exchange rate between US$ and your currency would fluctuate you could lose or win as well, from your point of wew.
I think the issue is an other: 30US$ for us who don't play for 150 to 300US$ a month in WB is a lot of money (and I do hope we are the majority, just so, for better "lobbyng", you know... ;-))
I think that the best way is a monthly rate "up-to" a certain level. We could imagine two different payment methods at our disposal for choice:
1) 30$ fix-flat rate for those who are now bleeding themselves dry playng WB at hourly rate (300$ are 150 hours! Don't u have a girl, or are you doing it while flying?? HE! No! I was just joking! No Please don't... AAAAAARRRGHHHHH!).
2)a hourly charge up to a certain limit, say something between 30 to 40 or something like that for the other peoples.
This way you'll "pay" the comfort of paying for flying (and not to pay if you don't fly) with an higer top rate if you do fly a lot. It seems to me a good compromize, isn't it?
Ciao!
Luigi "falco" Pacetti,
who is Italian but could be told to be Scot... :-) without offence to Scotsmen...
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Regarding this payment issue...
I come from the Air Warrior community. I figgure theyre probably the bottom of the barrel as far as both product and billing go. Meager FM, and only 10 bux a month.
You get what you pay for, and I applaud HTC for setting a flat rate.
Anyway, its pretty obvious if HTC is setting a flat rate, while maintaining the high quality deserving of an Hourly rate, they would lose a ton of money if they allowed the casual user to pay hourly up to that 30$ limit. They arent recouping earnings from the hard core 150-300$ a month crowd.
Again, Im very happy for the flat rate. Hourly prevented me from playing WB's (Im Poor (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I think that flat rate is a good way to go. If you spend less than $30 dollars a month in warbirds because it is all you can afford you will feel pressured to get as much out of it as you can due to the relativly few hours you can play. With flat rate this pressure is taken off and more people will be prepared to take an ungunned c-47 up where as if you can feel the money pouring out your pocket the story might be different.
Also $30 dollars is always $30 dollars (more or less) but if you live in a country like russia it is much more likely to be a larger proportion of your salary (due to smaller cost of living). Unfortunatly there is nothing HTC can do about this (apart from move to russia) but people in the same economic bracket as those in the U.S. will find AH will take a larger percenatage of thier salary.
Spare a thought though for many of us europeans who endure telco charges.
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At $30/mo flate rate you'd have to count me out.
I can't put in enough hours to get up to my $10 on WB these days, and it's my all time flat out favorite form of entertainment (well, save one). There's no way I could justify $30 for a few hours a month. There are too many real life time constraints.
I'd like an option of some small number of hours with a higher rate for going over the max. Someone putting in 150 hrs a month would never take it, but it would work well for Dads and Working Stiffs.
That said, I haven't flown AH yet due to my wimpy computer - I can't wait to try it out though. Who knows - I might sell the farm for it. I sure fell for HT's previous product (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (BTW - Thanks, and my wife hates you)
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luzr of the VF-101 Grim Reapers
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Actually I think $19.95 would be the magic number to draw a large crowd.
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$30 unlimited is the best way to go, IMHO.
It's not worth it to HTC to setup a complex billing system for folks who don't want to spend that much per month. Sorry, this game isn't for you. If you've been paying less than $30 / month with WB, then stick with WB. I have a feeling a heck of a lot more WB'ers are gonna want to pay $30 / month unlimited than $2 / hour. It's almost a no-brainer, again IMHO.
The "casual simmer" who wants to put in a lot of hours has AW. The serious simmer who has limited time has WB.
The rest of us have AH.
I empathize about the exchange rate stuff. Not much HTC can do about that though. They have to make money in order to keep the quality of the product where we want it.
ko
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I have the simplest solution, and I can't figure why I'm the first to think of it. Have everyone in the world use the Euro, no more exchange or anything, just 30E a month, simple, no?
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"Do unto others....and get your head blown off." -Brethon
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this is an honest fact, and not 1 any will like to hear, this sim wont make enough money to stay afloat......none of them do, warbirds has been in financial trouble for quite awhile, so has sim giuld...........what AH needs to do is get some real comercial backing, and then get the price down to where ppl can afford it with out thinking, man im on a bissness trip and my moneys going down the toilet.......$10 a month is that price...if they had comercial backing and good advertising they could accomplish this..and reach thousands.......unless this happens i think every company trying to make money off peoples playtime are all p*ss*ng in the wind......sorry for sounding so dismal but what I say is the sad truth and I wish it wasn't........
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Brig.Gen.STING-94TH
"Cover your 6 or you might get stung"
[This message has been edited by Brig.Gen.STING-94TH (edited 10-22-1999).]
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Wow - glad you have an inside handle on Profit/Loss statements that HTC requires and have seen their business plan.
Thanks for sharing.
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Allow oz to make an observation here:
this sim wont make enough money to stay afloat......none of them do
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$10 a month is that price
Ozbelieves both AW and FA can in fact be had for the aforementioned $10 a month. They're hemorraging money hand over fist, so yer saying that HTC should emulate them? Ozmust question yer logic...
To some extent, it comes down to one thing: people unwilling to put quality money down for a quality product. (This is somewhat different for non-USA folk who have exchange rate, cost of living, and telco issues to deal with.) Lots of folks think $10 a month is reasonable. But the question then becomes, what will that pay for? Not so much. Here in the US, oz don't see how someone who was willing to pay for a quality product couldn't find an extra $20 a month for something that was a better product. It's all a matter of priority. It's personal choice as to whether it's worth it or not, but it is to an oz. Luckily for a KoK, he is in a position where it is not any big deal at all. But even when oz was poor, ozknew that is based on what you find important. Let's use the starving college student model: one less night spent out at the bar, or 4 or so more hours spent at that crappy job. Quit smoking, or smoke less. (Amoritize the health care savings. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)) Skip a credit card payment -- or better yet, cancel them and pay em off, they'll sink you financially. Mow lawns. Tutor some stoopid folk. Go out with cheap sluts instead of good girls. Dine and dash once more each month. Kidnap small animals from the neghborhood to get a reward for "finding" them. Take $20 from a friend when they get too drunk to remember. Hell, knock over a liquor store, that'll keep you going for at least a year!
One of the curses of this world is the syndrome where we want the greatest thing in the world for the price of the 10th place mediocre product. You can't have that extra nifty new SUV for the price of the used compact car. It simply doesn't work that way. Sorry. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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TKoKFKA-OZDS-
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I most likely won't be paying for Aces High for the simple reason 30.00 bucks a month is darn close to 50.00Can. But I would probably sign up for a pay as you fly type pay plan if it is available.
Why should AH have this type of pay plan? So they can snag players like me who have been paying companies like imol for the last 3 1/2 years at 2.00/hr. I'm not saying don't have the 30.00/mon plan but offer a 2.00/hr plan for guys/gals that might want it.
Gonzo
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Ozymandias said : "One of the curses of this world is the syndrome where we want the greatest thing in the world for the price of
the 10th place mediocre product. You can't have that extra nifty new SUV for the price of the used compact car.
It simply doesn't work that way. Sorry. "
Teapot agrees (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
My other option is to travel once a month to Brisbane and play Flanker 2 on a LAN. It's a blast, but in AH I can play EVERY NIGHT (as long as I can get away from my brood for a while). It's no contest for me. I'm happy with $29.95 ... I've made my choice (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Cheers
Teapot.
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Phoenix Squadron
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$30 does not even cover my cable bill. $30 is worth about 20 minutes of a programmers time - without overhead.
In other words... it aint squat.
I am sorry that it translates to a heavy burden on non-US customers. I enjoy non-US pilots.
It's developed in the US. The economic realities are US... read above regarding what it translates into for an employees time.
Bummer... but that's life. Again, $30 here is not anything... not even a cheap trip to the grocery store, not my cable bill, not my phone bill and not one weeks worth of good old "petrol".
$30 is cheap. So cheap... I don't think they can survive.
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Teapot,its called consumerism.Why should'nt we as consumers want the most for our money?
Demanding value for cost is something that should always be considered before buying anything.To accept less than full value in any product is short changing yourself,and helps flood market with shoody products.
Its VALUE,not cost that should be considered.
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Brethon what the hell is a Euro?
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Chester,
Right now you are getting Excellent Value.
The AH BETA IS FREE.
Now that is VALUE.
Until HTC Starts Charging, you can't make a Value Argument.
Then you have to compare it to the other sims.
FA, WB, AW, Etc..
As long at AH is BETA and FREE There is no Cost/Value Comparrison.
When HTC Starts Charging, it will be up to the folks that fly the other sims to make their own determination based on Hopefully Comparative Analisys.
If AH is even close to WB I will Switch. I simply can't afford $2.00 or $1.50 an hour, and I can't fly as much as I like.
So for a comparative iEN Platinum account I can fly all I want in AH, and not be afraid of the Clock.
I haven't canceled my iEN Account. Right Now Warbirds is Still more fun (IMHO.)
I have until AH is out of Beta to Decide.
I can understand individual who find $29.95 too high. I would think that HTC could set something up for like $1.50 U.S. Per Hour, but not to exceed $29.95. That way people who don't want to, or can't fly as mush don't take the $29.95 kick in the pants, unless its their own fault.
Perhaps even a minimum amount, say $10 a month. So from every customer HTC Gets $10 whether they fly that month or not, and no customer takes more than a $29.95 a month pounding.
I can understand everyones opinion, but the one that matters is HTC.
Those folks that want the Sim to Prosper and Improve will shell out the funds.
By setting the one and only flat rate, HTC has pretty much;
1. Puts its head on the Block and Given the Axe to the customers.
2. Ensured that only individuals who have the financial wherewithal to fly this sim can fly it.
3. forced everyone to examine whether or not they are willing to pay $29.95 a month to fly a sim.
We won't know until HTC goes under the answer.
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"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG
[This message has been edited by Downtown (edited 10-23-1999).]
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Sheesh Funkmeister, wot rock you been hiding under? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
It's that newfangled Euro-(catchy, huh? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))-pean common currency. With European Union (IORC the name) they are strying to standardize a lot of things and get everybody on the same sheet of music.
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TKoKFKA-OZDS-
[This message has been edited by Ozymandias_KoK (edited 10-23-1999).]
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cc on Gonzo's statement.
30$/month, probably not.
3 years ago I'd jumped on the 30$/ month offer.
Now I'm a much more casual flier, but I can't see myself quitting yet for a long while.
If AH had same plan as WB, 10$ + 2$/hour I might sign up for both.
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I never, ever had an AW bill anywhere near $30; it was ALWAYS almost three times that much as a minimum. And that was back in the early '90's.
When the squad was active, I usually flew WB in the 30-50 HOURS per month range...but we got bored with WB this year and we all dropped way down.
Even in Beta, I tend to view AH as a promising sim. There's going to have to be more strat and stuff to differentiate it from the "forever furball" in WB, but I'm guessing that I'll be down to about 50 cents an hour once it goes "live".
What else can you do for 50 cents an hour that is this entertaining? <G>
Oh, yeah...my kids are already playing on this account too...so it'll be even cheaper!
[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 10-24-1999).]
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My suggestion: $30/month OR $2/day, depending on "subscription".
I think most people here will be able to interpret that themselves so I won't discuss it in great length.
I must add that I for one think that HTC will stick with $30/month initially when it goes out of beta, no matter what we say now, then evaluate the pricing after seeing how that goes. They seem pretty firm on that point.
Oh yeah, and where am I coming from? I'm a student with an economy where $30 would really be noticed. I could find them, but I would have to drop other things I enjoy - and there are already plenty of things I'd like to do if I had the money. I'm probably not one who will be around at that rate.
What is the biggest problem to me though is the fact that while I could probably get value for my money at times, most of the time I just don't have enough spare hours for flying - and I usually don't know how much spare time I will have in advance! Paying $30 each month and then not finding time to fly much two months out of three doesn't sound too tempting to me. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for flat rates. But an alternative like the one suggested above might pull in enough people like me to add to the net income for HTC.
Now we can argue about how much trouble it would be programming different timezones into the system so that it cuts the days at the appropriat times. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Cheers,
/ft
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My 0.02cAUS
Someone brought it up earlier and the point was missed I feel.
The US market (economics taken on board) is still a limited customer Base). I've no arguement with the flat rate. Its always the best option.
Others have argued if the price was lower in international terms then customer numbers 10 fold would increase into the sim given the current competition.
Whats forgotten is that if we were to argue the same numbers $30 US customer base against an International paying customer base. The US only arguement would hold.
However we arent in reality as the International Customer base is far more numerical and at a price affordable to them and by allowing them in the door, any inadequacies raised in financial gain would be superceded byt the fact that the superior numbers now present from a variety of customers overseas in the sim would balance any US costs and I believe offer far better financial return once the total sum is transfered into US dollars.
I can think of 36 pilots right now who would sign the dotted line at a Flat rate, Foriegner friendly price.
SC-Sp00k
Skeleton Crew
Australian
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SC-Sp00k:
Obviously HTC should look at local price levels where there customers live. Each country is a different market and things cost different amounts even after you account for the exchange rate.
The problem is that if Western Slobovia got a special rate of 4 Shekels per month, which turned out to be $25 US per month when you convert it, love muffines like me would lie about being from Slobovia, go convert some $ US to Slobovian Shekels, and play cheaper. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I'll make this short and simple.
I'm a health care worker. Do you know what that means?? It means I'm not making the BIG
BUCKS at the present time.
20 dollars a month in some form or another would be great. Wouldn't you agree!
30 dollars a month is too much to ask of everyone in one lump sum. Think about it!
I can still fly all I want in warbirds free area, and 5 hours a month in Reg Arena.
I would be more than happy to cancel warbirds and come over here. However, some of us has to work for a living.
Also when some of our younger flyers finds out about this game, there parents are going to say WHAT!!! 30 dollars a month??? Are you crazy. 20 dollars a month and people would be more willing to handle.
After all I would like to see maybe 2 or 3 hundred people flying in the arean, not just 120 during peak hours.
Go Fiqure the math.
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As long as I dont have to pay by the hour im happy. Anything under 60$ a month makes me a happy camper.
:-) Funked ya remember when I had that 300$+ bill ehh
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Gijoey,Joetwo,JoeMud=me
DHBG!!
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Heheheh Joey I remember that! I had $300 bills too, but I make more than you. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
How ya doin? I'm out of flight sims till New Years or so, hope to see ya in the skies then. <Salute>
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Yeah, everybody wants a billing scheme
personlized for their particular flying
schedule and personal/country economic
status. I'm pretty sure HTC could a year
developing this specialized billing system
and then dedicate 2 employees full time to
keeping it current. But I'd rather have them
develop the freakin sim than figure out 75
different ways to charge us.
So here's the reality..
Take the number of employees of HTC and
multiply by 150K$/yr. Take the number of
customers and multiply by 120$/yr. To a
very rough order of magnitude, those are
your expenses.
Since the easiest billing system to implement
is flat rate, figure out the flat rate
required for this company to make money.
Also make sure to take into account the
maximum customer base.
They came up with 30$/month, which seems low
to me, but who am I to complain?
Regards,
Michael Carney aka duck
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Funked: I pointed this out once before, the only feasable way of providing seperate rates for countries is to use foriegn banking to handle billing. In this case HTC would have the option of refusing Foriegn orders on credit cards, hence as long as your credit card is from the USA it would not be accepted under any of the other countries rates.
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If those of you posting were flying, you would be getting your moneys worth (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Cyas Up!
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Hehehe. Doing good im back and as cross eyed as ever ;-)
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Gijoey,Joetwo,JoeMud=me
DHBG!!
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On the big $30,
1. Free Market. Yes, since we do live in a free market, they can charge whatever they want to.
2. Free Market. I don't have to pay the 30.
Pretty simple, but I have some objections to the 30 dollar charge and my objections are specific to my budget. Basically, I don't have the budget to be able to spend 360 a year on a game. I'm not sure what the target audience is for this game, but someone somewhere thinks that the 30 dollar charge is acceptable.
Pragmatics may force the number down some. A game would have to be quite amazing for me to think about dumping loads of cash and tons of hours playing it. I think many are quicker to speak than to open their wallets and pull out the plastic. It's a numbers game ultimately. If you can get more players by having a pricing structure that reflects the current market structure than I would think that is better than trying to price yourself out as a "Country Club" flight-sim.
But again, this is a free market and this experiment may fly? I hope it does. I just won't be one of the ones donating my 30 dollars per month to see it work; I can't afford that.
Tom
P.S. That being said, I really appreciate the opportunity to beta test the product and to watch it grow up.
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Heck it costs $30 or more just to take the wife out to eat one night. That takes about one or two hours. How many hours do ya spend online playing Aces High in one month? If you are like me you probably play at least 20 hours. Seems like a bargain to me if the game keeps improving and evolving.
I come from the Warbirds camp and know how the hourly charge BS can cost BIG bucks. After playing warbirds so long the Aces High $30 a month flat rate is a friggin GODSEND.
For those of you who truely can't afford it, I've been there guys, and I know what its like. I know how it is to be broke, and it does truely suck. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Quote...
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Ozymandias_KoK
One of the curses of this world is the syndrome where we want the greatest thing in the world for the price of the 10th place mediocre product. You can't have that extra nifty new SUV for the price of the used compact car. It simply doesn't work that way. Sorry.
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TKoKFKA-OZDS-
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hblairthinks oz is dead on! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BTW this excludes non US customers. I can see where $50 + is a little high.
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Quit ya belly-acking $30 bucks is ok as long as we get good stuff right?!! We is either adults or we's aint. Thies guys here got big bolos and is spending lots to set this up for us to have fun and they deserve to have our support as long as we's all like it, right? and when its the best around (soon)and were all hopelessly addicted to it <grin> 30 bills will some how be found by all. btw last month WB bill $189.00 US love it -love it-love it check six