Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kweassa on August 12, 2004, 03:04:26 PM
-
The Ta152H-1 or the F4U-4 would be justified in some amount of perkage as to retain its status as a 'rare' fighter to see in WW2. More or less same logic can apply to the Tempest V.
However the Spit14 is not.
The Spit14 was a common fighter and a regular addition to the RAF which could be seen in large numbers since 1944. It's performance as a fighter is impressive, but not so high as to justify the current, penalizingly high prices.
Like some have already mentioned, it's low-altitude speed range is still slower than quite a large number of planes.
It boasts excellent climbing ablities and acceleration, but the Bf109G-10 is readily on par with the Spit14, which is a free plane.
It has excellent maneuverabilty for a plane of its speed, but again, this is not a trait which only the Spit14 has.
It's high alt performance is very good, but still a lot of plane are as fast(or even faster, such as the Bf109G-10 marked at 452mph at 22k), and also boast much simular high alt qualities.
All in all, the arena is already full of late-war variants such as the La-7, P-51D, Fw190D-9, Bf109G-10, and etc etc., but of those many planes of many nationalities only the RAF is exmept from being able to use a competitive late-war plane for free.
I know how much you hate people assuming they know what you think, but in this case there's honestly no reason I can think of why the Spit14 must remain at such a high price range.
What I can think of, is that the Spit14 was always a 'controversial' plane in terms of overuse, and subject to so many cynicism from all kinds of games before AH - WB, AW, FA.. etc etc.... and I am guessing that these past experiences influenced your decision about its status - whether to be perked or not, and how high it must be perked, if it is decided so... But I must cautiously protest that this might be an overkill.
The Spit14 started out as a perked plane, unlike the F4U-1C which started as a non-perked plane.
HTC went through a grueling process of evaluating its overuse, and finally arrived at its current price which has successfully limited its overall numbers, but not making it a totally rare plane, and fairly accessible at low prices.
Contrary to that, the Spit14 started off as a perked plane from the beginning of its introduction. To my knowledge, so far such planes which were perked from the start were always very high in performance that it was almost self-explanatory - like the 163 and 262, or even the Tempest V. Most people won't have to think "why was this plane perked from the start?"
However, I believe that the Spit14 is different, as explained in the beginning of the post. The only distinct qualities it has over other planes, is that it is a plane balanced in speed and maneuverability, which is a rare trait. Indeed, such a trait is a reason for popularity, as we can see in the example of the Spit9 or the N1K2. However, that reason alone cannot explain such penalizingly high prices for such a significant plane of WW2.
So I humbly plead, please, how about a test-period for the Spit14 for about two tours? If it is really so dangerous as to be needed to be perked at such high ranges, then it can always become re-perked.
In my personal thought, the Spit14, even if it is perked, won't be of any threat to the MA in terms of balance. If it stays anywhere around 8~10%(in kills), I would expect it to be tolerable levels(as the La-7 and the P-51D have all maintained such high usage rate since the beginning of their introduction).
If it would surge higher than 10%, then it would need to be perked, which should be adequate at 5~8 points tops, to successfully limit its usage. Previously, we saw a plane with 20% usage drop down to 2~3% levels with just 8 perks, in the example of the F4U-1C.
If the Spit14 is in the 50 point price range from the beginning, then it must mean that HTC does not think it's just another plane that is plainly overused, but a plane with very high performance that needs to be suppressed with perks, to contain its usage. And that, is what I am very skeptical of.
Please, just for two~three tours, try the Spitfire Mk.XIV as a free plane... and then, evaluate its perk price according to usage!
Thanks for listening.
-
The slow speed + the perk icon = dead Spitfire Mk XIVs unless they are insanely conservative = not fun = not worth spending "reward" points on.
My choice would be to keep it perked, but relabel it SPIT instead of SPIT14 .
-
What? Is this a trick, Kweassa? You, the Prince of Perks, petitioning for an UNperking of the Spit XIV?
(Looking all around suspiciously) ... okay, I'll second that.
If anyone knows perk intricacies, it's gotta be you, Kweassa. Your rationale and persuasive presentations are always admirable, even if I detest perking in general.
-
I would comment, but i'm so biased so i don't think i should.
-
I agree with Kweassa, the performance of planes like the La7, Typhoon, 190g10, P-51d, and 190d9 mean perking the Spit14, Ta152, and F4U4 renders them basically unusable.
The Ta152 is basically worthless in the MA, below 10k you would be hard pressed to find a plane that didn't out-perform it in every aspect.
The F4U-4 is good, but a competently flown 109G-10 is more than a match for it, and the La-7 is better than the 109G-10 at everything.
However, both of those planes were relatively rare in WW2, so I can understand perking them to keep them rare in the MA. Although, quite a few planes only had production runs in the hundreds, so a plane being classified as rare because there weren't 14,000 made might be slightly inaccurate. For example, the N1K2 had a small production run, as did the C205 (the C205 might be on par with the Ta152 as far as how many were made).
The Spit 14 is a completely different matter. Below 5k, it is slower than the G-10, D-9, La-7, P-51, and Typhoon. In other words, it is slower than every "fast" free plane in the set. While it does outclimb every free plane in the set (by a couple hundred feet per minute), it can only do that as long as it has WEP.. which only lasts 5 minutes. After that your perked Spit 14 is a 109G-6 with better firepower.
Compared to the La-7, even the Tempest isn't that impressive performance-wise, although I imagine if it were unperked all the La-7 pilots would switch to it because it has much better firepower.
I think that the popularity of the Spit 9 (which seems to be waning anyway) has played some role in the price of the Spit 14 being set so high. However, I also think that most Spit pilots might fly the Spit 14, find out it is completely different from the spit 5 or spit 9 they are used to, and stop flying it.
The Spit 14, from what I've seen, really isn't anything special, performance-wise. For 5 minutes, it is a 109G-10 with three times the firepower, but once the WEP runs out it is pretty much helpless (especially in the MA).
-
Urchin,
So far as I know the Bf109G-10 outclimbs the Spitfire Mk XIV in AH2. In AH1 the Spitfire Mk XIV was the fastest climber.
What you say is mostly true, but you exagerate it's firepower and leave out it's "Kill Me Now" icon.
-
I'm with you here, Kweassa. Un-perk the Spit 14, or I'll have a migraine (last time I flew one, a 30mm shell clipped my wing, and 70 points went down the drain).
Oh, and FYI... The La-7 is only superior to the G-10 in AH because barely anybody flies above 10k. The G-10 would rape the La-7 at 15k+... Just letting you know.
-
Unperk it, no, pull it & the F4u-4 & TA down to a reasonable 5 - 10 perks, yes.
-
Actually Fruda, the La-7 is at least as good as the G-10 up to 15k. Haven't really fought above that alt, so I couldn't say for certain when the La-7 starts to gasp, but it isn't 15k.
-
Karnak- I don't think I overestimate the firepower at all. I'd rate 2 Hispanos and 2 .50s at about 10 .50s worth of firepower. Take the Hispanos by themselves, and I still say a Spitfire hits at least as hard as a P-47 (with 8 .50s). I rate the Mg-151 at about 2 .50s, and the MG131 at about 1. So I guess 2.5X the firepower instead of 3X.
About the "kill me" tag.. I really don't see it. For me it doesn't come into play to often. I imagine you are talking about situations where there is a sizable number of friendlies and a sizable number of enemies fighting eachother, and a large chunk of one side goes after the perk plane on the other side.
I see this all the time in just about every plane. Hell, yesterday I was flying a Stuka over furball island (when I upped we had control of the air, by the time I got there they did), and got into a bit of a fight with 5 bishops and 3 or 4 other knights. What ended up happening was me fighting a Niki, Hurricane, and P-47, while the other knights went after the two that didn't attack me. Please don't tell me that they mistakenly thought the JU-87 was a perk plane?
-
No, but JU87 = trophy and easy kill.
Happens to the Mossie all the time. It's one of the reasons I will be switching to the Ki-84.
Still, if your icon had said SPIT14, 152 or F4U4 you get more attention than even a trophy plane.
Also, the Hispano's do roughly three times the damage the 50s do, not four times.
-
It be nice to be able to fly the 14 once in a while. Yes the perk price is too high but I don't think it should be as low as the F4U-1C. The F4U is a death trap in the MA environment. So maybe perk it a little higher than the F4 and see what happens
-
I say leave it perked but remove the giant "kill me 1st" sign over its head.
-
The cost of perk planes is irrelevent.
The gangbang tags force all prop perk planes to be flown too conservativly for it to be fun.
The cost determines how often people can use the planes. It has little effect on how much fun those planes are to fly.
-
I say leave it perked, and change the icon tag.
-
With eny rules in force I couldn't fly anything under a eny of 28 this eve - anyone want to buy a couple of thousand perk points?
-
Imho, unperking, or at least reducing it's cost considerably, is worth a try, everything that promotes variety is a good thing(tm).
And yes, the Griffon MkXIV is an entirely different beast in tactics and relative strengths both for the guy at the controls and every opponent, it's not just "a better MkIX"
If (unperked) spit14 usage proves to be unbalancing after a couple of tours, perk it again.
-
if the perks were about percentage that flew in WWII, the f4u1c would switch with the 262. and the italian planes.....perks regulate game play and the planes that are flying. dont want to many uber planes ruining all the fun for everyone else.
-
So you're saying the Spit14 is 'uber'?
..
When we already have an arena full of 'uber planes' of each countries - P-51Ds, La-7s, Fw190D-9s and Bf109G-10s... which, are all completely free?
-
The Spit 14 would see some use if it were unperked. Probably the F4U4 would too. The Ta152 wouldn't, it is completely worthless perked, and it would be completely worthless unperked.
I'd imagine the Spit 14 would end up around where the Ki-84 will end up, probably right around the Typhoon level of use. Our MA is one of extremes, the only planes that will see "over usage" are the ones that are the "best" at something. The Spit 9 is the best all around fighter (speaks wonders for German engineering that a 1942 Spitfire will kick the everloving **** out of a 1945 Ta152 100% of the time), the La7 is the best runner, the Niki is for people that would fly the Spit 9 but want more ammo, the Spit 5 for people that would fly the Spit 9 but want to be able to out turn the Spit 9.
The Spit 14 doesn't really have a niche in that kind of environment. A spit 9 would kick the **** out of a spit 14 unless the spit 14 just bore n zooms (and even then I suspect the Spit 9 would equalize energy states eventually and win, although the Spit 14 has a much better chance than the 109G-10 does because of the Hizookas). An La-7 can bore n zoom a Spit 14 with impunity, and even fight for a while until it becomes apparent that the Spit 14 pilot is better than they are, at which point they just level out and haul bellybutton while screaming for help. Actually, a Spit 14 isn't going to survive an encounter with an La-7 in the MA.. if it looks like the Spit 14 is getting the upper hand, the La7 runs, then turns around and resumes chasing the spit 14 once the spit 14 turns around. Eventually, the friends that the la7 has been calling the whole time will arrive, and the Spit 14 will die.
The F4U4 would probably see more use than the Spit 14, because it is almost as fast as the La7, so it can get away with a head start.
The Ta152, well, most everyone knows how worthless that plane is, I doubt it would break 500 kills a month even if it were unperked.
-
Ta152 gets more kills than the Spit XIV right now, and that is with the Spit XIV accidently being taken in place of Spit IXs.
-
the TA152 would get alot of use from people flying the 190D9 and wanting some firepower the TA152 holds a vulchers dream weapon a 30mm in the nose that is easy to use with the 2 20mms
heck we get people flying 190A-8s why wont TA152s get used
and Urchin try flying it some time its not a worthless peace of crap you love to name it
-
The 152 is slower than the D9 at every alt up to like 30k. It accelerates slower than the D9 at every alt up to 30k, and it climbs worse than the D9 at every alt.
I'm reasonably certain it turns worse as well, but once you empty out the wing tanks that might change, in AH1 it actually turned pretty well once you got the wing tanks and forward tank emptied out. But it is the lack of speed, acceleration, and climb rate that kills it, not the turn rate.
Yea Karnak, I noticed that when I went back to check the killstats for the 152 for the past few months. I guess just the higher perk cost of the Spit 14 keeps it from being flown, it is a much better airplane.
-
The 152 is slower than the D9 at every alt up to like 30k. It accelerates slower than the D9 at every alt up to 30k, and it climbs worse than the D9 at every alt.
I'm reasonably certain it turns worse as well, but once you empty out the wing tanks that might change, in AH1 it actually turned pretty well once you got the wing tanks and forward tank emptied out. But it is the lack of speed, acceleration, and climb rate that kills it, not the turn rate.
Let's see... according to HTC charts and Kingcat's AH test data:
* The D-9 outruns the 152 upto 22k
* The D-9 outclimbs the 152 upto 21k
* The D-9 outrolls the 152 at every speed range
* The D-9 outaccelerates the 152 at every speed range(at deck)
In basic maneuverability testing:
( Test conditions at 500ft, Stall limiter on(to minimize human error margin), 25% fuel...)
* The D-9 completes a one circle, coordinated turn at:
22.4 seconds (MIL)
20.8 seconds (WEP)
* The 152 completes a one circle, coordinated turn at:
21.9 seconds (MIL)
19.1 seconds (WEP)
....
So more or less your assumptions are correct.
I've been using a lot of 152s in all kinds of situations, regardless of perk loss, for the past tour, and I'd add that the only advantage the 152 holds is with power dives(albeit slightly), firepower, maneuverability, and E-retention during level flight.
-
Yea, my assumptions are correct about 90% of the time, as much as most people hate to admit it.
-
Urchin,
The problem is that the Spitfire Mk XIV, which I agree would smack a Ta152H-1 badly in AH, is no more cabable of surviving it's icon than the Ta152H-1 is.
The gangbang tags more than compensate for the increased performance of the perk planes, barring the Tempest, Me262, Me163 and Ar234. Once the tags are factored in you have aircraft that are actually significantly weaker than a great many of the free aircraft.
-
Problem with the propeller perk planes isn't their perk tags, it's the presence of the ME-262. Anything with a propeller just seems worthless compared to the jet, so why risk perks on that 152 or F4U-4 when that just means you'll need to wait that much longer for the jet?
Solution: get rid of the jets in the MA. Suddenly the other perk planes will be worth using again. Well maybe not the 152 since it's more of a "wow" type of plane than something which is actually viable in the MA.
I also think EVERY plane should have a unique icon, not only the perk ones. Being able to hop in a 109F4 and win fights only because my opponents can't tell I'm not a G-10 is stupid. Hiding in a Spit 14 while your opponents think you're a Spit 5 would be even more stupid.
J_A_B
-
I have to disagree with you there J_A_B. The Tempest and F4U-1C both see pretty heavy use. The Tempest has the performance to overcome it's perk tag and the F4U-1C has a generic F4U icon. It isn't the prop vs jet, it is the lack of performance to deal with the icon that singles them out.
-
We've had this discussion before and never came to any sort of agreement so I see no reason to repeat it again :)
Maybe AH would have been better off if there was no perk system and if certain units had simply never been added.
J_A_B
-
The Ta-152 is bellybutton right now, because nobody wants to take the time to climb to 40k. The 152 was made for altitudes about 35,000 feet, and it's speed is rated at 470mph+ at 40,000 feet.
At that altitude, the 152 completely out-performs the D9 in every flight test I've done, except for rolling and turning. Well, longer wings mean greater lift, and greater lift means better performance at altitude at the cost of mobility.
I still love the Ta-152, and nobody's gonna stop me from flying at 40k.
-
i think i heard some thread about the TA152 being porked because it was missing some thing? or maybe a other version of it?
-
i think i heard some thread about the TA152 being porked because it was missing some thing? or maybe a other version of it?
It's about the WEP effectiveness at high-altitudes, which brought people to question if the GM-1 system isn't working as intended.
The Ta152H-1 had two WEP systems installed, that was recommended to be operated at different altitudes.
At altitudes under approximately 20k, the MW-50 system was to be used. The MW-50 was an anti-detonant system that allowed the engine to run longer at high boost without problems of overheating/damaging the engine.
At higher altitudes, the GM-1 system was used. The GM-1, unlike the MW-50, was a liquid nitrous-oxide charge which boosted the power of the engine itself by providing more rigorous, powerful combustion. That's why it was limited to high altitudes, as the air temperature of lower altitudes would not be able to keep up in cooling efficiency to keep the engine safe.
The empirical problem was, despite the Ta152H was expected to be a very good high-alt fighter(a specialized boost system for high altitudes.. large, long, sail-like wings to cope with lower airpressure... ), in AH1 the Ta152H sucked as much at higher altitudes, as it sucked at lower altitudes.
It couldn't gain any kind of edge against any kind of plane. Even the 1942 Spit9 would kick it around at 25~35k altitudes. The AH1 Ta152 indeed, could reach very high speeds, but that was all it had. It takes gross amount of time to reach that speed.
Despite at an altitude where other engines would produce only about 30~50% of their original power, the AH Ta152 was still outaccelerated by those planes.
Despite the large, sail like wings it maneuvered like crap at high-alts, with any kind of stick pull resulting in a high E loss. So, typically, at 30k the Ta152 would be gasping for speed with only about 300mph TAS all the time, with high AoA just to keep the plane level. The speed increased only with a dive, or a very long level acceleration, and any kind of maneuvering would destabilize it and bring the speed down.
However, an AH P-51D or a P-47D would also be effected by crappy maneuverability, but developed speed much easier, and the AH Spit9 was slower, also doing 300mph TAS or so, but would decisively outmaneuver the Ta in almost every situation.
So basically, what it could not fight against at 5k, it still could not fight against at 35k... unless extending 10 miles for every pass made, and then coming for another HO pass, was anyone's idea of 'fighting'.
...
That's why people were considering that it was porked.
A very distinctive comparison to the AH Ta152H, is the IL2/FB Ta152H, which I believe may be a little too optimistic, but much closer to the reality of the 'uber plane', a pilot's 'life insurance during the war', that were outturning RAF Tempests at deck.
In IL2/FB it accelerates much faster. It is much more stable and easier to handle, and definately maneuvers better than the 190D..(in AH, the Ta152 only marginally maneuvers better than the 190D, while lacking in almost every other trait, as mentioned in former posts).
-
The spit14 is damn near the best aircraft in the game.. It eats la7's for breakfast and anything it cant outrun it can outclimb them and outturn... or both in the same ACM.. (my personal favorite is spiral climb, slowing speed down in the vert to get maximum turn radii then pedal to medal to run them down...)
in fact im damn near untouchable in it even with the tags.. at 12.5k it does 400mph cruise... and it takes 2 mins and change to get to that alt to supercruise... (4.8k per minute is silly)
or 5k alt with repectable speed at cruise and silly speed with wep.. at 1minute climbout this is much better than on deck...
hispos, great spitfire view and when not in wep can almost outturn a spit9(advatage to the spi9 though..)
to best describe this aircraft its like a mustang with a spitfires turn.. and a g10's climb..
Keep it perked or youll be sorry...
DoctorYo
Most people have not read up on how the use the tags against the enemy but thats your best bet.. over aggressive la7 pilots are my usual prey in the spit14.....
-
I'd agree with that entirely Doc in any small engagement up to a 10v10. Once you get into one of those extended furballs that cover 10 miles where planes are coming in at 15K+ you cannot afford to use the exceptional turning ability of the Spi14 and it is thus relegated to B&Z or at least pure-E.
But as you said, in a "fair" fight it is probably the best overall fighter in the planeset. We just don't see too many "fair" fights in the MA, and if you do they don't stay that way for long with the ebb and flow of a furball.
-
One on one I'd favor the Spit XIV over anything short of a 262 and that would probably be a draw.
However, with people arriving above you your slow spiral climb means you die. Been there, done that, many times.
-
I had a yak (probably a 9u) outrun my spit14 in the 17-20k range. even on wep... and the yak has none.
spit14 is overpriced, imho, as there are several planes that can handle pretty much even up at most alts. la7, yak, 109g10 (no gondies), even a pony can make a spit14 work for it if flown well.
-
(this is not a attack shane..) The reason you got run down at 17-20k is that the spit14 is weak at those alts.. study the charts..
magic numbers 10k wep 13k mil (cruise)
high alts.. 22k (think you even hear the supercharger kick in.. or feel it cant remember my usual alt 13k..) 25k is the wep max speed.. and 27-28k is your mil (supercruise)
also note are you guys implementing highspeed climbs when using this aircraft.??. a highspeed climb that works really well is 300mph @ 2-3k per minute IAS.. (wep or no wep) most aircraft you will leave in the dust.. G10 will hang with you but you can outturn no problem.. (some people will not try to climb with you staying level then trying for a low belly shot... these guys are thwarted by rope a dope / spiral when they go for their shot..) The energy this thing holds in a spiral climb makes g10 pilots envious.. (i fly the g10 so i know..)
And note when I say turn Im talking 3g turns maybe 4g's this aircraft whips around on low g loads.. it allows you to reverse on things with little loss in airspeed.. (all spits have this ability on low g loads..) This allows you to disguise your intentions... and e fight your enemy.. or T/b them with superior e..
When la7's blow their boom and zoom and go straight up... I go lag pursuit right after them..(you only lose may 10-20mph after a evasive if your losing more than that your pulling too hard..) no i dont get the shot on them at first.. but they have no shot on me.. (lag pursuit..) Immel, then level and turn the 5 prop to max and out accelerate them and go spiral climb.... then at low airspeed (small radii) get into a turn fight with them with 25% throttle heavy rudder and a 4-5g turn.. they have 2 options die or run to deck..
The spit14 can turn its just most haven't practiced stall fighting in it.. Do a little homework offline/training and start working them 3-3.5 g turns at edge of stall... donot use wep under any stall fighting except when needed and use short bursts to accel or climb..
Wep usage is key to be successful in the aircraft once it goes and you are not at your target alt.. (i'd say 10k you start to get untouchable.) then your arguments above about it just being another spit are well validated...
In its target alts its untouchable.. at 1k alt if you mannaged your wep well then in 2 mins your at your target alt.. get the picture... save that wep its the key..
DoctorYo
-
what you're describing is not an uber plane its a good pilot using an aircraft's strength to his advantage. Replace "Spit14" with "109G-10" in your text and nobody would notice any oddities. In a 1on1, or with a pilot who has enough time in a G-10 and using the same half E/half TnB tactics the Spitfire MkXIV is untouchable. A correctly flown P-47 is untouchable as well..
You're overestimating the average MA ACM proficiency though :D
Nobody says the -14 sucks, it's a great plane, infact it's only weakness is it's deck speed.
Combine that with a hefty price tag and it's icon and you'll have a worthless hangar queen in the making..
-
Well, looks like i will post after all.:)
Doctoryo, how many fights do you find at 10-13k? How exactly do you force a con to fight within 10-13k? The spit14 at 13k can keep up with a g10 (they look identical) however up to 25k the g10 gains a 25mph speed adv. Climb follows the same pattern. The g10 also has double the WEP time. IMO a g10 is more than a match. The La7 is faster on mil than the spit14 up to 20k (except for 13-16k) once the spit14 runs out of WEP.
The Spit14 is a very average plane after it's 5 mins of WEP.
The spit14 is a great plane, however the MA is full of great planes such as the la7, p51, g10 and d9. The spit14 is very well suited for a 1v1 style of fighting. It is however, ill suited for the MA style of combat, fighting a mixture of different models of planes.
I actually got fedup flying the spit14, i've had plenty of kills in it. The large majority of the planes that ran away from me in a spit 9, ranaway from me in a spit 14 too. A large proportion of the MA are la7s, p51s, g10s, tiffies, d9s....all can escape at willl v spit14 (tho the la7 + tiffie do dive below 10k first).
I do love the spit14 despite all of this.;) :) I just find it unworthy paying perks for something that half the arena runs from.
-
I cant force anyone to do anything.. But I do have big spit14 tags which have the effect of cons going where i want them to go....
You would be surprised the lengths people will go to get at your perk plane..
Use that stupidity against them.. Anything that dives in on you with exception of a zeke or another spit you easily out turn at your target alt while maintaing e state.. then use the superior engine power of the 14 model...
also note in a highspeed climb the la7 is left in the dust at 10k and above... in straight tail chase la7 is more on parity.. Im not arguing that.. The key is also add climb to whatever your trying to do and youll come out on top..
you guys have your opinions but im telling you if the thing gets un perked youll see a whole arena of them... its just that good of a aircraft....
you guys fly the spit14 more and youll see that its really one of the best in the game.. even for the MA and its chaos...
Its a mustang that can turn like a spit and climb like a g10...
DoctorYo
-
DoctorYo,
All true, in a one on one. However the MA is not one on one. You try having your turnfight with an F6F-5 and some La-7 or P-51D will come by and whack you.
One on one the Spitfire Mk XIV is quite possibly the best fighter in AH.
It is a somewhat below top end fighter in the context of the MA, but only due to the icon that gets it gangbanged. Give it a generic SPIT icon and it would absolutely need to remain perked, but at least it would be useful.
-
They are perked because they are later models of planes,, ,
If U unperk them thats the only spit anyone will fly!
has better guns its faster, climbs better, rolls faster because of its cliped wings.
Sheesh ,, , every one wants it easy! :rolleyes:
thats my 4 cents
MonkeyMeat
-
i don;t think it should be unperked, but rather have the perks reduced to around 10-15.. i mean the spit14 *was* a fairly common plane, and it's not overpowering in any category.
it's not as easy to tnb a spit14 as you might think. and using it as an e-fighter, well several unperked planes can hand it it's patooie.
-
Originally posted by MnkyMeat
They are perked because they are later models of planes,, ,
If U unperk them thats the only spit anyone will fly!
has better guns its faster, climbs better, rolls faster because of its cliped wings.
You haven't actually flown it, have you? Be honest.
If you had you'd have noticed that it does not have clipped wings and does not roll faster. You'd also have noticed that it's guns are identical to the guns on the Spitfire Mk IX. You might also have noticed the gangbang that the Spit XIV's icon pulled onto you.
If you had thought about it briefly, you'd also have realized that it is not perked because it is a "later models of planes", otherwise the P-51D, Fw190D-9, Bf109G-10 and La-7 would all be perked too. It is perked due to it's high performance. However it's high performance is not enough to handle the icon of death it carries.
I say leave it perked, but change the icon.
-
unperking the spit14 would basicly bring h2h style gameplay to the MA. all i even see in there is spit14's
-
What the wings aren't cliped?
yah you are right ,,, I havent flown it in a realy long time.
And yes to add to your coment Karnak. . . Yet the La7 should definately be perked! aswell as some of the later Luftwaffe planes . .. but i cant say wich ones cuz I dont fly them. . . The P51D is borderline perk plane ,,, i see it is superior in may ways,
the only reason its not perked because its such a populare plane,,, every one knows waht a p51 is and want to fly it,, would start a lynch mob if you perked that one, lol.
But ya the whole purpose of the "PERKED" plane is to give the game some balace and keep it interesting... sure some people will fly older planes for fun and for the perk ratio, , , but that wont last long, when they are constantly out performed by superior later model fighters.
"I like em perky!"
MonkeyMeat
-
They are perked because they are later models of planes,, ,
If U unperk them thats the only spit anyone will fly!
Well, we already have everybody flying the La-7 instead of the La-5FN.
Everybody flying the P-51D instead of the P-51B(and what's more; the "Mustang squadrons" are so upset that they don't get to fly D-Stangs when SBM is in effect, that they're threatening to quit, when there's always the B-Stang...)
We already have everybody flying the Bf109G-10 instead of the G-2 or G-6(well, actually... Luftweenies take pride in flying masochistic planes...so they do use a lot of G-2s and G-6s too...)
...and we already have everybody flying the Fw190D-9 instead of the A-5 or the A-8. (well.. same Luftweenies in this case too...)
So, what's wrong with every Spit dweeb flying the ultimate Spitfire the RAF plane set can offer, when everybody else does the same with their planes?
-
you guys have your opinions but im telling you if the thing gets un perked youll see a whole arena of them... its just that good of a aircraft....
We already have an arena full of certain planes.
People always seem to forget that their favorite planes somehow don't belong in that 'overused' category, but the truth is, the arena is still dominated by four plane types doing 40% usage.
The Spit14 is a formiddable plane. No doubt one of the best in the set. But I don't believe anyone accustomed to the running speed of the P-51D or the pure fighting power of the La-7, would give his plane up for the Spit14.
In the worst case scenario it might do 20% in overall usage, and that still is worth only 8 perks according to the past incidence of the C-hog.
you guys fly the spit14 more and youll see that its really one of the best in the game.. even for the MA and its chaos...
No one's denying the Spit14s a good plane. The question is, is it really a super-plane worth 50~60 perks to pay, when the arena is already full of its peers - other super planes of other countries?
In terms of balance the La-7 and Yak-9U can fight it in almost equal terms.
The Bf109G-10 is slightly inferior in pure dogfighting prowess, but outruns it and outclimbs it(or rather, outlasts it in WEP and then it decisively outclimbs it).
The P-51D and the Fw190D-9 outrun it by a hefty margin at deck alts, which is the typical MA combat condition.
And ALL of those planes, are free.
So why's only the Spit14 so expensive? It was expensive from its beginning. Nobody tested it out as a free plane.
Its a mustang that can turn like a spit and climb like a g10...
Nope.
-
Originally posted by B17Skull12
unperking the spit14 would basicly bring h2h style gameplay to the MA. all i even see in there is spit14's
I doubt this very much. Today, people still fly the Spitfire MkV and the IX is free.
I do agree a free Spit XIV might be too much to bear for the first tour before the "new" factor wears off. In beta at some point the Tempests were free which was enough to convince me it's good that it has it's price in the MA.
The Spitfire 14, while having a comparable price, is a different beast alltogether. It cannot outrun the most widely used free planes.
It's not the quad-Hizooka Uber-Lala the Tempest is, it's a dogfighter leaning towards medium E tacticts by nature. The Pony will beat it hands down in the BnZ game, a SpitV will fly circles around it in the TnB department. It can come out on top of most planes in a 1on1 when used correctly but it's lacking the deck speed to make it a dominating many-vs-many plane the P51D, 190D-9 and La-7 are.
Unperked, it would see high usage, no doubt. Yet, offering another high-performance plane suited for MA duty for free will increase variety, a good thing imho.
IF we end up having an Arena full of it i'm the first to say perk it again.
Drop it's price into the 2-5 points range first and let's see what happens from there. it's worth a try i think :)
-
Icons:
Give all the planes a detailed icon. Like it is now we can identify from far out a C202/C205, an F4F/F6F/FM2, but not a 109F/109G. It 's difficult enough to handle the mixed bag in the MA. By the way: In the real world the opponents knew exactly what type of aircraft the other side had at a given time.
Spit14 perk:
I think the new gunnery model changed things much. At least reducing the perks for the Spit14 wouldn't be a problem.
Btw: I'm flying LW ;)
mofa
PS: Little hijack. Make different colors for every country! :D
-
Well, after flying it some, I still haven't changed my mind. The performance doesn't really warrant the large price tag. It is kinda funny though, I had people chasing me home and stuff trying to vulch me on landing. That and people started flying even more timidly than normal around me... bore n zoom pass, start spraying at 800 and break off, then run... that was the typical "fight" after I'd flown a few sorties in one area.
At 10-15k is it a pretty good plane performance wise, it accelerates very quickly (better than the G-10 I think), it can still climb at over 4k fpm on WEP, and it has a pretty fast top speed. However, it does have some pretty nasty slow speed handling problems, I did stall out pretty wickedly a couple times in really slow speed knife fights. Don't think I died because of any of them, but it does have a pretty nasty stall.
All in all, this plane is probably just about perfect for my style of fighting. I might just fly it all the time. I don't think Joe Newbie would be able to use this planes strengths though, so I doubt it would be very popular even if it was unperked.
-
hear ya Urchin
today i took up a plane iv been flying of late the F4U4 will as i fly to a base at 12k i run into a P51D and a LA7 flying at 15k and of course they both dove on me i hit wep and dove i outran the P51 very soon but the LALA kept up for awhile and when i got to my base a other guy was coming to help me so then i started a turning fight to help him out so he can get a shot
well in 4 turns i was blasted out of the sky using flaps and trying to turn the F4U4 as hard as i could
i was pretty upset about how the LA7 so well matched the F4U4 i almost logged
then i uped a Spit14 and killed 2 La7s a Yak and 109F-4 :D
the Spit14 is just a monster
-
Originally posted by Kweassa
So why's only the Spit14 so expensive? It was expensive from its beginning. Nobody tested it out as a free plane.
Nope.
Spit 14 , F4u-4 and TA152 should all have a lower perk cost . say 10-15 odd sounds good to me, get them in the air , what's the point of them sitting in the hangar. Stirke fear into the heart of the lala's ! ;)
Either all variant tags should go, or all variants should be tagged. If 109 can be anything from the F to the G-10 , the Spit's and the F4u's should all be the same. ( including perk variants)
Personally I think - untag them all , part of the fun/challenge is working out which one you are up against in the middle of the fight.
Spit14's unperked - The fact that the Spitfire is one of the most popular planes in the game , and that people being people seem to gravitate to the most uber variant they can , I think it's dangerous to fully unperk the spit , just make it more affordable.
I like your perk model though Kweassa , it seems to me the perk system could be better utilized in encouraging broader use of the planeset.
Also , I think the MA dynamics should be tweaked every now and then just to mix things up a bit, change the scenery , is anyone not sick and tired of badly flown Lala's , I guess at least we could have a change of scenery and see badly flown spit14's for a couple of months :)
-
Only thing that sucks about the Spit14 is it can't zoom for ****. Died twice to slower planes out-zooming me and spraying away with .50s as I stalled out above em. Kinda makes it tough to E-fight when you can't outzoom someone you are going 100 mph faster than.