Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: dracon on August 12, 2004, 11:16:40 PM
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Please reconsider! We are a PONY squad, historical. That's what we do. We have been Rook since our beginings some 1 1/2 years ago. Nice and simple P-51D, Rook.
Limiting our ride because of numbers puts us out of business. Our squad night is Sunday at 9PM EDT.
It's not that we can't fly other planes we DON'T WANT TO FLY OTHER PLANES! We can't even be sure if we switch countries the P-51 will be there or stay there during the squad night without switching countries multiple times.
It is totally unfair to ask a squadron CO to Hopscotch his squadron from country to country each time they log on in search of their squadron-specific rides!
It is my honest opinnion that the numbers will swing the other way as naturally as the did when we started. Originally the ROOKs were sadly out numbered and the pendulum swung towards them. If left alone it will swing back.
Ladies and Gentlemen of AH. This is not posted here as a debatable issue. It is NOT a Rook only problem. It is not a P-51D only problem. I have openly asked this of Hitech and posted here in hopes that other squads from all countries might join in. I am asking for a stay-of-execution for the 339th and other squadrons that share the same love of history and the love of specific rides.
Respectfully,
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Dracon not to worry .. remember you have the P51B which is 35 ENY. So for the most part I think you guys will still have the lesser pony available to you.
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Chess piece loyalty is kind of silly don’t you think?
I am not saying that ride limits are a solution to the gang bang but I know what the solution is to your complaint above, switch sides.
Ya’ think that might be what HT is trying to achieve? Once enough folks switch sides then all the planes become available again...
HT isn’t killing your squad it’s your unwarranted loyalty to your preferred chess piece.
Try switching sides and see how it goes before predicting the end of the world.
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(http://dreamvalley-mlp.com/circle_new.gif)
(http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/crime/mafia/john-gotti/gotti-mug2.jpg)
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funny to think that a p51 squad cant fly p51Bs
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Wotan...Let me explain!
There is NO chess piece loyalty here. There IS plane loyalty and Historical loyalty. I will maintain that....always.
The P-51B is not an option.
Sunday night. We log on Rook the P-51 is there. One sortie later it is disabled by numbers. We go Bish as do others in search of their ride that is now unavailable. One sortie later the P-51D is unavailable to the Bish. We now go Knit. Got the picture.
If you read above, this is not specific to the Rooks or to P-51D's but to all squads in all countries that have specific rides that are in danger of being grounded for numbers.
Please! This is not meant to be debated among the community. This is my open letter to Hitech and HTC. I wish to have squads that face this problem join me here.
With greatest respect to all,
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Originally posted by Wotan
Chess piece loyalty is kind of silly don’t you think?
I find this statement "silly" and always have. It`s like telling someone that has rooted for their home team all their life that it`s silly and to root for the opposing side or even to aid them. I know a lot of players don`t "get" this and that`s fine, but to a lot of players, especialy some of us old timers, switching sides just don`t feed the bulldog. It`s what immerses some of us in the game and makes it tick.
The "chess piece" part is just a symbol, but that symbol represents a virtual home to some. Without a permanant side, country, etc the game would just be another arcade shooter with no direction and absolutely nothing to hold the interest to some of us. If your satisfied and not concerned with what country or "chess piece", as you put it, fine, but that`s not what the game is all about for some.
Maybe you can gather up a group and form Chess Piece Anonymous (CPA :D ).
Then your group could jump from country to country to equalize numbers.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
It`s like telling someone that has rooted for their home team all their life that it`s silly and to root for the opposing side or even to aid them....
...The "chess piece" part is just a symbol, but that symbol represents a virtual home to some. Without a permanant side, country, etc the game would just be another arcade shooter with no direction and absolutely nothing to hold the interest to some of us...
very well stated... i agree with what i have quoted.
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Originally posted by dracon
Wotan...Let me explain!
There is NO chess piece loyalty here. There IS plane loyalty and Historical loyalty. I will maintain that....always.
The P-51B is not an option.
With greatest respect to all,
it's Ok , you are allowed fly 51-B's it's in your consitution/code of conduct - there's no mention of variant. ;)
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4. The P-51 is our primary ride, each member should make it a point to spend half of his or her time flying it in the Arenas. In the right hands the "pony" is the scourge of the virtual skies. Take the time to learn it.
Jeff "biz" Holden
Founder and CO (emeritus)
339th Fighter Group Virtual
Endquote
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I doubt that HiTech is going to set the threshold so low that aircraft become unavailable at the rate you suggest.
What I bet happens is that after a period of occilation the sides settle down at roughly even numbers that keeps all planes almost always available for all countries.
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The side you happen to fly on isn’t your team. People switch sides all the time as is. The players are as diverse on each side as they are on all sides.
What’s silly is coming to the BBS whining about how HT has killed your squad as if there's no recourse.
Switching sides solves that. To claim "I will quit before I switch" or "Rook till I die" is stupid beyond belief.
There's nothing unique or deserving of irrational loyalty in regards to the players on any side in AH. Switch sides, fly the plane you like and make new friends and find new enemies. The world won’t end.
Sunday night. We log on Rook the P-51 is there. One sortie later it is disabled by numbers. We go Bish as do others in search of their ride that is now unavailable. One sortie later the P-51D is unavailable to the Bish. We now go Knit. Got the picture.
Dracon,
In the short term the you might have that problem ( I doubt it). There may be some fluididity between sides until things settle and the players who have switched find a new home.
Until then you may run into that problem.
But ultimatly this could have been settled by the players themselves without HT having to go to this extreme. Had folks been willing to switch on their own to balance out the arena all would have remained as is.
See what the silly "side loyalty" has resulted in?
As for the "debate" you already lost it. Read any number of recent posts about the imbalance in side numbers. HT deicided on a course and set it.
If you only wanted to hear from HT then why didn't you just call him?
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I am in absolute total agreement with this.
Im a knight. My loyalty is to the knights. If they were called Bz I would be loyal to them.
Its the country I fly for. teh chess peice is simply a way of identifying it
To me it adds to the immersion.
For me there has to be a bigger reason for the the fight then just to fight. I can get that in just about any boxed game which I would probably get pretty bored with after a few weeks
Im not in it for just the blob vrs blob fight but the overall picture. Thats whyI fly the way I do I do whats needed for my country. I couldnt care less aboutmy score, rank or KD ratio. I look at them as asource of amusement more then anything.
Thats why I spent almost the entire night sunday doing almost nothing but running around and nailing barracks.
Other times I may be in a GV either attacking or defending a base. Or manning ack, or running supplies.
Or any of a dozen other things.
Like I said, it adds to the immersion which for me is a big part of the fun
Originally posted by Jackal1
I find this statement "silly" and always have. It`s like telling someone that has rooted for their home team all their life that it`s silly and to root for the opposing side or even to aid them. I know a lot of players don`t "get" this and that`s fine, but to a lot of players, especialy some of us old timers, switching sides just don`t feed the bulldog. It`s what immerses some of us in the game and makes it tick.
The "chess piece" part is just a symbol, but that symbol represents a virtual home to some. Without a permanant side, country, etc the game would just be another arcade shooter with no direction and absolutely nothing to hold the interest to some of us. If your satisfied and not concerned with what country or "chess piece", as you put it, fine, but that`s not what the game is all about for some.
Maybe you can gather up a group and form Chess Piece Anonymous (CPA :D ).
Then your group could jump from country to country to equalize numbers.
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I hope you are a psychologist wotan, to be telling people how they should feel about thier team. If not you need to STFU. The lack of loyalty is probably what gets teams (or lack therof) in trouble with players jumping ship. YOu also need to learn to read, there is a reason we dont want to switch sides and it was clearly stated above. Now if you had learned your 3 Rs in school you also would have been able to read the purpose to this thread. If you need it, we could probably put the very first post on a .wav file for you to listen to, or maybe you can just sound it out yourself. whatever
Otherwise you need to screw off and get off Dracons back for bringing up a legitimate complaint we have for the new system that basicaly rewards whining, dweebery, and lack of teamwork. And punishes working together for a common goal ie: resets.
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Kids, you all over reacted:D
Dracon bever will happend something like that on MA, so calm down.
We are rooks, we fly all iron stored at hangar with spit, pony B as favorite (according to our historical profile).
I will not swich side even if 262 wil cost 1 perk in knightland or bishtardia ;)
We swich to rooks when they need help and we wil stay here, no matter how attractive rides will give us swiching sides. We are not "cheap" squadron
btw.
ROOKLAND OR DEATH]
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personally i dont see the difference between al the sides.
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
personally i dont see the difference between al the sides.
how big is your squad?
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Originally posted by jdpete75
I hope you are a psychologist wotan, to be telling people how they should feel about thier team. If not you need to STFU. The lack of loyalty is probably what gets teams (or lack therof) in trouble with players jumping ship. YOu also need to learn to read, there is a reason we dont want to switch sides and it was clearly stated above. Now if you had learned your 3 Rs in school you also would have been able to read the purpose to this thread. If you need it, we could probably put the very first post on a .wav file for you to listen to, or maybe you can just sound it out yourself. whatever
Otherwise you need to screw off and get off Dracons back for bringing up a legitimate complaint we have for the new system that basicaly rewards whining, dweebery, and lack of teamwork. And punishes working together for a common goal ie: resets.
I don't care what your reasons are. The fact is HT implemented this to force you to decide between you ride loyalty and/or side loyalty. He did it for a reason, to balance the numbers which is something a good number of folks in this community have called for over the years. If folks can't take it upon themselves to balance the arena then it forces HT to act.
HT did this to encourage folks to switch sides and balance the numbers. The fact some of you are so set against just high lights the problem of how ridiculous side loyalty is. Most of the ones complaining are rooks. It just happens they usually enjoy close to a 100 person advantage over the other 2 sides. If the situation were reversed you and your squad wouldn’t have zip to say about it. When rooks were down folks switched sides on their own. That’s not happening now.
If Dracon just wanted to hear from HT he should give him a call or email him. But he posted on an open forum and whether he likes it or not people with differing views are going to reply.
People have left AH because of the disparity in numbers. They refuse to join the horde just like some refuse to fly with out it. In the long term it’s in HT's interest to have balanced and competitive sides rather then one horde rolling through the arena night after night.
AH used to be a bout Air combat, the resets and base capture just gave you something to fight over. Rather then fight some find safety in the herd. This hurts game play and impacts everyone.
I didn’t say I agreed with HT’s decision, but that’s not the point. HT had to do something because the players would not take care of it themselves.
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Originally posted by jdpete75
I...the new system that basicaly rewards whining, dweebery, and lack of teamwork. And punishes working together for a common goal ie: resets.
panties. bunch.
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Been inactive for some weeks now, could somebody point me to a thread where Hitech talks about this or explain a bit more in depth them selves?
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surely you found it, but just in case
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126649
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Originally posted by jdpete75
I hope you are a psychologist wotan, to be telling people how they should feel about thier team. If not you need to STFU. The lack of loyalty is probably what gets teams (or lack therof) in trouble with players jumping ship. YOu also need to learn to read, there is a reason we dont want to switch sides and it was clearly stated above. Now if you had learned your 3 Rs in school you also would have been able to read the purpose to this thread. If you need it, we could probably put the very first post on a .wav file for you to listen to, or maybe you can just sound it out yourself. whatever
Otherwise you need to screw off and get off Dracons back for bringing up a legitimate complaint we have for the new system that basicaly rewards whining, dweebery, and lack of teamwork. And punishes working together for a common goal ie: resets.
I think it's a rather good system but then I'm not a Runstang driver. Nor do I think it punishes team work in anyway and it looks like it might just be a feasable answer to the occasional imbalance caused by the lopsided numbers.
And for the loyalty thing, I kind of think Wotan is right. I might fly as a Knight but that's just because that's where my squadron is. My loyalty belongs to Riddle's Raiders.
ack-ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders
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Originally posted by dracon
Limiting our ride because of numbers puts us out of business. Our squad night is Sunday at 9PM EDT.
Umm. So change your squad night
It's not that we can't fly other planes we DON'T WANT TO FLY OTHER PLANES! We can't even be sure if we switch countries the P-51 will be there or stay there during the squad night without switching countries multiple times.
The P-51B is like 35 ENY. No doubt the numbers would really have to be out of wack to disable that. If the numbers are that out of wack to disable 51s, guess what? That means there are a couple hundred other people being "put out of business" because there is no recreation value in playing when one country outnumbers the other two combined. Though I can see by your post, you could give a watermelon about what other paying customers expect for their service, as long as you can do everything you want, when, where, and how you desire.
It is totally unfair to ask a squadron CO to Hopscotch his squadron from country to country each time they log on in search of their squadron-specific rides!
Good thing nobody asked a squadron Co to do that.
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So is there a new rule in effect now or not?
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Dracon - as you mentioned the word "historical" in your original post, you surely know that historically, the RL pilots of WW2 flew what they were told to fly, out of a selection of planes that were available at the time. Why not learn some different planes? Being a PonyDweeb is bad enough, but being a "Waaaah - I want my pony" whiner is even worse. I used to fly ponies in WB from time to time - even flew them here when I was learning the game parameters. Easy plane, but I wanted a challenge.
Try something new!
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Originally posted by jdpete75
Otherwise you need to screw off and get off Dracons back for bringing up a legitimate complaint we have for the new system that basicaly rewards whining, dweebery, and lack of teamwork. And punishes working together for a common goal ie: resets.
This may surprise you, but Aces High isnt a strategy war game that happens to have airplanes. It is an Air Combat Sim supported by a strategic enviroment. As such, many people expect to log on and find Air Combat. Teamwork is part of the enjoyment. Teamwork however does not nessecerly mean making an institution out of mobilizing a majority of a country to be online at the same time to deny the other 60% of subscribership their service of MMOL Air Combat.
Discussions have been going on for a very long time here asking the player base to step up and take care of the problem. Unfortunately too many people showed the same stubborness that is displayed in this thread. So now HTC has decided to step in. If you dont want HTC to be setting new rules, then mabey some of you should pay a little more attention to the concerns of the rest of the player base before it comes to that.
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Originally posted by Schutt
So is there a new rule in effect now or not?
No, probably slated for a future patch.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Dracon - as you mentioned the word "historical" in your original post, you surely know that historically, the RL pilots of WW2 flew what they were told to fly, out of a selection of planes that were available at the time. Why not learn some different planes? Being a PonyDweeb is bad enough, but being a "Waaaah - I want my pony" whiner is even worse. I used to fly ponies in WB from time to time - even flew them here when I was learning the game parameters. Easy plane, but I wanted a challenge.
Try something new!
It's worse than that Beet1e - it's waaa I want my D pony , don't make me go up in a B.
Don't think these guy's would have adapted too well to the RPS. I was in VF-17 when it was introduced , and we weren't that excited , but we jumped in f4-f's for a few days and it wasn't too bad , kinda fun actually. Certainly didn't stamp our little feet and close our accounts , well I guess I did close it eventually - but I went quietly ;)
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it's a whaa i can't fly to me
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Schutt
So is there a new rule in effect now or not?
We are going with a system based on the ENY value using the same formula as the time system uses.
As the number of player increases on a side planes with an ENY value less then the "balance output" will be disabled.
HiTech
Simple question HT. Are you saying that you have definitely decided to procede with this?
Jackal1
Yes Jackal1
HiTech
Its not yet in affect but it appears to what HTC has settled upon as a solution to side number imbalance.
I have never been one to agree that folks should have their choice ride withheld from them. I never supported an rps. I have supported the perk system but I believe that folks still have an opportunity to fly them. The thing with perks is that there are just some planes (262 etc) that would just upset the balance in the main. Absent an rps and not having the opportunity to fly a 262 at all the perk system is a fair compromise.
So while I completely disagree with HTC’s solution here I do think that something needed to be done. Without anything thing better offered I am "ok with it". I certainly don’t think its the end of the world.
I think the problem of the numbers imbalance is a direct relation to the type of game play we see in the main. My solution would be to re-structure game play away from field capture as a reset trigger to something else. There have been 1000 suggestions on how to do this so there's no need to revisit this. HT went for the easier fix which is probably a better business decision. To much change upsets the herd :p
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Originally posted by Wotan
The side you happen to fly on isn’t your team. People switch sides all the time as is.
TO some of us it is our team. Some may change sides, but we know who our team consists of. It`s those of us who have flew together for years on the same side.
Switching sides solves that. To claim "I will quit before I switch" or "Rook till I die" is stupid beyond belief.
I disagree and I think your views and conclusions concerning how someone else views/plays the game is of little value itself.
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See what the silly "side loyalty" has resulted in?
Yes, it has given the game a solid base from which to work.
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So don't switch sides or change your squad night. Fly the P-51 that is available to you. That's what the real 339th FG did.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/81_1092395751_339thfg_p51b_photo.jpg)
Lt. Duane S "Swede" Larson. Regent ND. 504th Fighter Squadron. P-51B 42-106886 5Q-O "Swede".
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Adapt or die.
- unknown, circa 5Byrs.BC
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I generally fly 109's :D
are the 109's gonna be withheld????
109g10's or all 109's?
But then I like the 109g2, and the g6 and the f and even sometimes the e hehe ........... hmmmmmmmm
Don't think all of em would be withheld?
Why fly pony d with that crappy eny? pony b better at acm anyway?
WAIT IS HTC GONNA TAKE MY 109????????????
AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH HH
hmmmmm well niki, spit, p38, hmmmmm, hmmm oh well :)
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Originally posted by Murdr
Discussions have been going on for a very long time here asking the player base to step up and take care of the problem. Unfortunately too many people showed the same stubborness that is displayed in this thread. So now HTC has decided to step in. If you dont want HTC to be setting new rules, then mabey some of you should pay a little more attention to the concerns of the rest of the player base before it comes to that.
Murdr! I love ya!! (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_8_10.gif) Erm..., well, at least I think that was very well said, and I agree with you entirely. :):cool:
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While this guy is WAY over the top, this is a bit of good news. Most often it is the rooks that are the problem (right now), and if all the rooks were happy with hitechs proposed arena balancing scheme, it would mean his plan would probably not work. Now I am cautiously optimistic.
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WAAAAAAAAHHHHH MY EZMODE FIGHTER IS DISABLED WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH :rolleyes:
even the sides, and hitech wont have to "fix" anything
or as the others said, theres a P51B to fly...but i guess you need the P51D to be a good pilot.....
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Originally posted by Wotan
He did it for a reason, to balance the numbers which is something a good number of folks in this community have called for over the years. If folks can't take it upon themselves to balance the arena then it forces HT to act.
HT did this to encourage folks to switch sides and balance the numbers. The fact some of you are so set against just high lights the problem of how ridiculous side loyalty is. Most of the ones complaining are rooks. It just happens they usually enjoy close to a 100 person advantage over the other 2 sides. If the situation were reversed you and your squad wouldn’t have zip to say about it. When rooks were down folks switched sides on their own. That’s not happening now.
First off loyalty to a country is not just a Rook thing. I posted in other threads an analysis of all the squads (it took me a day to go through and check all of their flying stats) and the vast majority of squads only fly for one country.
As of the snapshot I took on 7/12/04 here is how the 341 actively flying squads break down.
82 - Bishop Dedicated - 24.0%
8 - Bishop Primary - 2.3%
96 - Knight Dedicated - 28.2%
16 - Knights Primary - 4.7%
91 - Rook Dedicated - 26.7%
31 - Rook Primary - 9.1%
As you see the Bishops and Knight Squads are in the main much, much more loyal to flying just for their team. You might find it silly but the vast majority don't and calling somebody irrational just because you don't agree with their point of view is not warranted. Also painting it as primarily a one country or the people on one country not getting it as the truth also is not correct.
Humans are social creatures and tend to look to groups or to form groups to form social dynamics. We do this all the times with fans for teams .. how much of a difference there is between Football team A and Football team B .. is debatable but you will still have people debate and show loyalty to it. If you changed the names from chess pieces to another thing .. wouldn't matter since people are more focused on interacting with their squad and the other people on their team.
There are some people who will switch and nobody condemns or questions that or calls it irrational. It is just that the vast majority don't and calling them irrational is unwarranted.
Second a massive influx of players from the Knights and Bishops did not happen and create this situation. The Rooks situation of being the low man on the totem started with the game. It got very back in 2001-2002 and through a number of factors the Rooks built up their player base and yes, some squads switched.
Even lets say that the massive groundswell did happen that a massive amount of squads and players switched to because the Rooks were massively outnumbered and they switched to help even things out.
Okay they switched from teams with larger numbers to even things out. They didn't care about a team loyalty they switched to balance numbers and too many of them switched causing Rooks to grow massive, no other factors besides that.
If they switched to balance numbers before then why are they not doing it now? You already stated that its irrational to show a team loyalty, by this I mean to a side, and that their is no cultural or community difference at all between sides. So if a larege influx of squads switched (which I don't believe is the case) to balance numbers (that being their only goal .. since Rooks were the smallest and why switch to the small team if they are actually only interested on being on the large team) they should be doing it now by your logic?
Next in the thread that HiTech started discussing options I posted screen shots of not one night but from a range of nights over 2+ week period sampling times from 9-9:30 to 10:30 ish. The Rooks have a massive advantage on sunday nights. They don't other nights and actually over the past week or so from 9:-11 EDT things have even out quite a bit. Although the Knights still seem to be more often fielding the least amount of numbers.
So we are roughly talking about 1 night a week where Rooks have a massive number advantage. Primarily do to the reason dracon states .. most of Rook squads have their squad nights sundays and I propose this is because taking sunday night and flying 3 hours doesn't interfere with RL things (wives and girlfriends don't object as much) as would trying to do that Friday night (quite a few Rook squads flyin in the SEA FSO's on friday) or Sunday night. Meaning sunday night is the most attractive.
Now other nights the Knights and Bishops have fielded in the 160s .. on tuesday at 10:38 it was B134, K166, R149.
http://www.dgideon.org/aceshigh/ahss27.png
On sunday they don't turn out the pilots at all they do on the other nights. And some squads have even posted that they now avoid sunday nights .. further reducing their numbers. It is not just a Rook thing .. Rooks should try to branch out to fly other nights as their squad nights. However, other squads should work at turning out their players to bolster their numbers more on sunday nights. If the arena was 160, 160, 200 that is not that bad of a spread.
So implying it is only caused by those who fly Rooks is possibly simplistic outlook.
Also stating that only Rooks have been objecting to HiTech ideas is your perception on things. Quite a few from all countries were stating or not liking HiTech first idea about a time delay. Most, from all sides seem to be on board about the disabling better rides as the numbers get out of balance .. which should only affect sundays in a extreme way .. call sunday FM2 sunday.
Dracon was not stating a country loyalty but a ride loyalty. And what he is worried about is the 12 hour limit rule. They want to fly P51Ds which are 6 ENY. He says they are willing to switch but what he is worried about is switching to a country that has the P51D (the country with say the least pilots on sunday) and then say they gain pilots and become the second most .. enough pilots to have the P51D shut off there also .. and then they are locked into that second country that can't fly P51Ds.
Not the fact that they have to switch.
All I can say is that will be the case with all the top planes .. and which is why I suggested the P51B.
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Originally posted by ghostdancer
Now other nights the Knights and Bishops have fielded in the 160s .. on tuesday at 10:38 it was B134, K166, R149.
http://www.dgideon.org/aceshigh/ahss27.png
err but thats only a 20 player advantage......lately rooks have been feilding 50 player advantages........
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Originally posted by Overlag
even the sides, and hitech wont have to "fix" anything
Stop avoiding flying on day that you don't have numbers will help to even the sides too. If instead of avoiding sundays like you have posted saying that your squad does, in other threads, if a large squad makes an extra effort and turns out another 10+ pilots that will help things too to start balancing things. Moving a country from mid 130s to 150s.
All sides could work on things .. Rooks spreading out to other nights. And some in other countries not avoiding nights but working to get more participation .. it has been happening on weeknights .. so why no other days?
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You miss the point .. the Knights have been able to field on tuesday 160 almost 170; on a tuesday a work knight after coming home from work across multiple time zones.
Friday, Saturday, and sunday .. I think all will agree are better or easier nights to fly on (you aren't come home after work tired, don't have to take care of other RL things first, etc.).
Rooks turnout on sunday because it tends to fit their schedule the best over the weekend (not interfere with doing things with family and friends on friday and saturday night). Which is a major factor of why you see that night as why so many Rook squads have it as their official squad night.
Question is why do other countries turn out a stronger number on tuesday night than on sunday (30+ more).
If the odds were 160,160, 200 on sunday .. that is a lot better than 130, 130, 200.
Rook squads should see about switching squad nights to other nights and other countries could work on turning out more on a night they identify as a main Rook night.
Turn it into a competition .. the great piss off the Rook night competition?
Personally I enjoy being under siege and refusing to give an inch as much if not more than being on the offensive.
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I for one have and will be for Even Game play. Having even numbers may not be necessary.
There were several ideas/sugestions brought forward in the Thread HT started regarding this change.
The one that HTC came up with isnt the one i would have chosen.
Instead i think the ideas that caused player dispersion within their country would have been a much more "Subscriber freindy" solution.
But i am willing to see this one run its course, knowing that it may cause some problems like the one your are concerned about. I think it a realistic concern.
Oh well...we will have to wait it out. If theres one thing i think i have learned about HT and HTC. If they are convinced that an idea will work. You are in it for the duration no matter how logical you are in you negative assesment of said idea.
PS: Do i think the new idea will even numbers?...Yes/Maybe eventually.
Do i think it will cause unnecessary tensions between Customer and Merchant? Yes it will :(
Is there a better way? YES
What if… Each zone had an allotted number of flight slots. If the slots were currently full…then you would have to launch from another base say 50 to 75 miles away or wait till some one else moved to a different zone.
This could work well to disperse the Hoards. Because you would have to wait…or chose another base of operations…The new base of operations being far enough from the original base that your fuel would be rather low by the time you made it to the zone you were originally trying to Hoard…err fly in.
Could work to deter hoarding or gangbanging.
Aces High with its zone structure could maybe benefit from this setup.
Yes i am repeating my self.
This will work.
You will still be flying with your own country.
You will still fly when and what you want.
Fuel conservaion will come into play a littler more, but its doable.
Tensions between Merchant and Customer would be effected very little.
And guess what. Sides would be even in practice although the player numbers may or may not reflect it.
Could this be a tool to eventually cause a numbers balance in the MA.
YES! In a subtle way it would eventually git er done. :)
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Originally posted by oboe
So don't switch sides or change your squad night. Fly the P-51 that is available to you. That's what the real 339th FG did.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/81_1092395751_339thfg_p51b_photo.jpg)
Lt. Duane S "Swede" Larson. Regent ND. 504th Fighter Squadron. P-51B 42-106886 5Q-O "Swede".
This says it all. No need for further comment...
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Not to worry,any scheme hitech has mentioned is colorblind - or sideblind. My thought is this probabaly comes across as a rook thing because of the infamous RJO organized gangbangs (which kind of started all this mess I reckon).
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Originally posted by ghostdancer
Stop avoiding flying on day that you don't have numbers will help to even the sides too. If instead of avoiding sundays like you have posted saying that your squad does, in other threads, if a large squad makes an extra effort and turns out another 10+ pilots that will help things too to start balancing things. Moving a country from mid 130s to 150s.
All sides could work on things .. Rooks spreading out to other nights. And some in other countries not avoiding nights but working to get more participation .. it has been happening on weeknights .. so why no other days?
ive not said anything about my squad and sundays. Sure most of them dont play, having work in the morning, or mainly because they've played all day but......
i play on sundays till about 3am, just when rooks start getting there stupid idea of "fun" into action, but then, like bullies at school, you never fight a even match do you........
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Originally posted by Overlag
yup so you cant kill them because they are at 30k
while its "only" sunday nights, its REALLY getting annoying having one of "my best nights" ruined by the totaly stupid 10v1 type thing rooks seem to like.
so now, i, and most of my squad play WWIIOL on a sunday night........i wonder why
Overlag it is from this post that I assumed you were saying that the 418th avoids flying on sunday. Because basically you said so in this thread. And why I stated that its takes effort across the board by all the particpants to some degree.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=124808 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=124808)
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Originally posted by Overlag
but then, like bullies at school, you never fight a even match do you........
Originally posted by Overlag
but then, like bullies at school, you never fight a even match do you........
First off there is never, ever anything in the world which is a perfectly even match. There will always be somebody higher or lower, there will always be somebody in a plane that is faster, climb, better or more maneuverable. There will always be a somebody with more ammo. There will be nights when your side has more or is more organized and there will be nights when others are more organized and or have more numbers.
As for comparing me to a bully and not fighting an even match. Thank you for turning to casting personal dispersions about my character instead of stating and discussing your opinion. You came out and made a statement about Dracon indicating its his or people like him fault for not fixing things (ps Remember Dracon said he has no problems with switching he just wants to fy P51Ds and is worried about switching to a country and being locked in and then having that country also lose P51Ds possibly if there numbers rise over the lowest country numbers). Based on a previous posting by you which I quoted and gave a link to I stated that its more than just this and everyone has to do things .. like not avoiding nights where you are outnumbered but trying to turn out more troops to get closer to a balance. And then you compare me to a bully.
There are nights where I am on where my side has the advantage and there are nights where we are the under dogs. The past two nights from 9-12 EDT the Rooks have been slammed into the hole on SW side of NDisles reduced down to 3-5 bases with both Knights and Bishops having airfields on our main island (the island with the HQ). Rightly so .. the Rooks pissed off the others sides and its natural for them to want to slam us and put us in the whole when they can. Got no problem at all with that and it’s a natural and predictable result. I was there fighting and enjoying the siege and basically refusing to roll over and let a reset happen (I like being a stubborn SOB .. I remember making last stands a lot more than the offensives .. i.e. Alamo, Thermpolye, Battan etc.). Many Rooks did log in frustration but others stayed and decided to fight it out since Tuesday. Now besides being stubborn (which allowed us to regain the main island last night) we also survived because the Knights and Bishops were busy with each other jockeying to be the one with the most bases before making that last push.
But I think you can safely say that in this instance we were not the bullies and I am not saying the Knights or Bishops were either .. we were the under dogs for this instance and that comes with the game. Today might be the ones on top .. with no FSO tonight you will probably see more Rooks on than normal .. since other Fridays we are over in the SEA and in the squad ops events run by the CMs. Sometimes you will be on top others times you won’t be. But to make a blanket statement about my character is a touch unwarranted and doesn’t support your arguments except to try to change it more into a personal attack.
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Originally posted by Overlag
WAAAAAAAAHHHHH MY EZMODE FIGHTER IS DISABLED WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH :rolleyes:
even the sides, and hitech wont have to "fix" anything
or as the others said, theres a P51B to fly...but i guess you need the P51D to be a good pilot.....
Funny thing here is if given a hard choice of only 2 planes I would pick the B over the D
Not as fast or as many guns, but just as deadly and alot of fun to fly
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(puts down beer) "Ghstdncer...you need a hand here bud?" (eyes people across the room..but then releases he's to out of shape to help much so continues drinking to drown his sorrow)
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Originally posted by oboe
So don't switch sides or change your squad night. Fly the P-51 that is available to you. That's what the real 339th FG did.
Lt. Duane S "Swede" Larson. Regent ND. 504th Fighter Squadron. P-51B 42-106886 5Q-O "Swede".
the Mans got an exellent point
the 339th was made up of 3 Fighter Suads
503
504
505
And they didnt always all fly Pony D's
Personal plane of 504th Sq. member Hervey S. Stockman, "Fuxum"
(http://www.web-birds.com/8th/339/504/profile504.jpg)
note the FG ID in the lower left corner
(http://www.web-birds.com/8th/339/504/r90-1.jpg)
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"this guy is WAY over the top"
Understatement of the year!
I nominate him for "Most overdramatic, foot stomping, knee jerk, infantile tantrum" for 2004 (at least for August).
"...Historical loyalty"
ROFL. In the AH "MA" ? That is hilarious.
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HiTech needs to concentrate on fixing this --- game.... the terrain is a frame rate sucking pos.... (Reminds me of AW Big Pac over Hawaii) worry about the other later!!!
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I think you hit it right there with the first word. PERSONALLY.
This is what I call a brussels sprouts issue. Some things are pretty absolute, i.e. the boiling point of distilled pure water at sea level. How you feel about it really is irrelevant. Makes no difference, it still boils at 100 degrees Celsius, except on Tuesdays, when it boils at 212 degrees Fahrenheit.
But then there's brussels sprouts. Can't stand em. Hate em, they taste nasty. Have some good friends that love em. They get reall excited when the cafeteria serves them.
Which of us is right?
Country, chess piece, team loyalty, right or wrong, is a subjective thing. Big deal to some folks, totally irrelevant to others. Know what?
You're both right.
Dang Brussels Sprouts.
Originally posted by B17Skull12
personally i dont see the difference between al the sides.
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Originally posted by ramzey
how big is your squad?
I fly with III/JG2 "Richtofen". Also used to fly with the ~outlaws~ or what ever they changed the name to.
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So don't switch sides or change your squad night. Fly the P-51 that is available to you. That's what the real 339th FG did.
---------Imagine a picture of a P51b named "Swede" here--------------
Lt. Duane S "Swede" Larson. Regent ND. 504th Fighter Squadron. P-51B 42-106886 5Q-O "Swede".
Funny you should depict Duanes' bird here. DarkNet and Myself , being from North Dakota, have modeled his plane for use in the MA. It hasnt been approved yet, been about a month. This was because we do like the B model as a pure fighter. However it doesnt meet our needs real well on squad night. I, for one, am somewhat afraid of a B when I am in a D and will avoid entangling with them. It is a better fighter thant the D is, but it is not the JABO aircraft that the D is. And on squad night we want a D model.
Would the 339th have switched sides if asked? Possibly, but I would have had a real hard time hunting down the same guys that diligently clear my 6 and help out when we need it. Some of you may think this is stupid, and possibly other rooks wouldnt have minded the occaisional "jdpete75 Shot you down" (<-- isnt real common). But I would have minded. Also who is to say that when I jump sides under force I am not going to make sure my home team knows exactly where the CVs are located or do other things to generally hinder the new (forced) teams ability to win. I am not above that, as I would still have zero loyalty to the players that I dont know and still have some for my buds on the other side. And what are you going to do about it? Nothing, thats what you could do about it. You cant shoot at me or you will get killed. Maybe you wont clear my 6 when Ghostdancer is chasing me around. Thats fine I dont expect you to. Maybe you could say bad things about me and make laugh and spit my beer out all over my keyboard, that has possibilities but I wouldnt count on it to work since I like to chug my beer and cant see the screen very well while doing so.
I have not seen a single thread asking for volunteers to switch sides in an adult manner. However I have seen many threads whining about being outnumbered.
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Originally posted by DipStick
This says it all. No need for further comment...
Indeed, sir!
Suck it up, Princess.
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Originally posted by dracon
Wotan...Let me explain!
There is NO chess piece loyalty here. There IS plane loyalty and Historical loyalty. I will maintain that....always.
The P-51B is not an option.
Sunday night. We log on Rook the P-51 is there. One sortie later it is disabled by numbers. We go Bish as do others in search of their ride that is now unavailable. One sortie later the P-51D is unavailable to the Bish. We now go Knit. Got the picture.
If you read above, this is not specific to the Rooks or to P-51D's but to all squads in all countries that have specific rides that are in danger of being grounded for numbers.
Please! This is not meant to be debated among the community. This is my open letter to Hitech and HTC. I wish to have squads that face this problem join me here.
With greatest respect to all,
If you are that loyal to history i would guess you only shoot at japanese and german planes to ?
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This all could of been avoided if squads as a whole were more responsible with side switching. Whats really funny is the groups that are complaining are the ones that posted pictures of massive raids showing off the numbers.
I sympathize with the 339th, but at least they have an alternate plane to fly. The P38 currently does not have an older model to choose from.
Regardless, I only hope HTC allows side switching much more frequently.
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Originally posted by jdpete75
I, for one, am somewhat afraid of a B when I am in a D and will avoid entangling with them. It is a better fighter thant the D is, but it is not the JABO aircraft that the D is. And on squad night we want a D model.
So then, it's not about History after all?
-Sik
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Originally posted by Delirium
This all could of been avoided if squads as a whole were more responsible with side switching.
I agree:
Posted 12/03/2003
However none of this addresses the root of the problem, which is the lack of responsible squads in the game. Specifically the ones that are more than happy to feel they are great and effective because they fly on the coutry with the most numbers, and can kick bellybutton all the time.
Hats off to the squads that do switch countries to balance the numbers, and make game play better for everyone.
Murdr
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I believe that was the III/Jabostaffel that posted the pictures and organized the large scale JU87 and then B26 strikes. And I don't believe they are complaining here about possibly being denied a specific type of German plane to fly.
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I echo the original post. The 412th FS "Braunco Mustangs" has been a P-51 squad since its first day on April 12, 2001. We have also been rook the entire time.
If HTC implements this "disabled aircraft" feature, then the 412th is going to have to start jumping countries. This is going to become a real hassle for the squad because every time we log in we are going to have to figure out which country we are flying for at that particular time.
Someone posted about using the P-51B instead, well sorry, that's not a solution for the MA now that AHII gunnery is here. It's hard enough to get a kill with 6 guns, let alone 4.. not to mention the shorter ammo load to boot.
----
Personally, I don't see how the P-51D should be in the same ENY class as the La7 anyway. It is hardly an easy plane to kill in, and is easily defeated if flown by an un-skilled pilot.
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Originally posted by dracon
The P-51B is not an option.
,
it may well have to be an option
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Originally posted by Midnight
Personally, I don't see how the P-51D should be in the same ENY class as the La7 anyway. It is hardly an easy plane to kill in, and is easily defeated if flown by an un-skilled pilot.
Simple, it is the second most used aircraft in AH right now, followed by the N1K2-J, followed by the Spitfire Mk IX. If it sucked as bad as you're saying it would not be used that heavily.
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when a wall of text is this big in a thread does it get read?
inquiring minds want to know....
Originally posted by ghostdancer
First off loyalty to a country is not just a Rook thing. I posted in other threads an analysis of all the squads (it took me a day to go through and check all of their flying stats) and the vast majority of squads only fly for one country.
As of the snapshot I took on 7/12/04 here is how the 341 actively flying squads break down.
82 - Bishop Dedicated - 24.0%
8 - Bishop Primary - 2.3%
96 - Knight Dedicated - 28.2%
16 - Knights Primary - 4.7%
91 - Rook Dedicated - 26.7%
31 - Rook Primary - 9.1%
As you see the Bishops and Knight Squads are in the main much, much more loyal to flying just for their team. You might find it silly but the vast majority don't and calling somebody irrational just because you don't agree with their point of view is not warranted. Also painting it as primarily a one country or the people on one country not getting it as the truth also is not correct.
Humans are social creatures and tend to look to groups or to form groups to form social dynamics. We do this all the times with fans for teams .. how much of a difference there is between Football team A and Football team B .. is debatable but you will still have people debate and show loyalty to it. If you changed the names from chess pieces to another thing .. wouldn't matter since people are more focused on interacting with their squad and the other people on their team.
There are some people who will switch and nobody condemns or questions that or calls it irrational. It is just that the vast majority don't and calling them irrational is unwarranted.
Second a massive influx of players from the Knights and Bishops did not happen and create this situation. The Rooks situation of being the low man on the totem started with the game. It got very back in 2001-2002 and through a number of factors the Rooks built up their player base and yes, some squads switched.
Even lets say that the massive groundswell did happen that a massive amount of squads and players switched to because the Rooks were massively outnumbered and they switched to help even things out.
Okay they switched from teams with larger numbers to even things out. They didn't care about a team loyalty they switched to balance numbers and too many of them switched causing Rooks to grow massive, no other factors besides that.
If they switched to balance numbers before then why are they not doing it now? You already stated that its irrational to show a team loyalty, by this I mean to a side, and that their is no cultural or community difference at all between sides. So if a larege influx of squads switched (which I don't believe is the case) to balance numbers (that being their only goal .. since Rooks were the smallest and why switch to the small team if they are actually only interested on being on the large team) they should be doing it now by your logic?
Next in the thread that HiTech started discussing options I posted screen shots of not one night but from a range of nights over 2+ week period sampling times from 9-9:30 to 10:30 ish. The Rooks have a massive advantage on sunday nights. They don't other nights and actually over the past week or so from 9:-11 EDT things have even out quite a bit. Although the Knights still seem to be more often fielding the least amount of numbers.
So we are roughly talking about 1 night a week where Rooks have a massive number advantage. Primarily do to the reason dracon states .. most of Rook squads have their squad nights sundays and I propose this is because taking sunday night and flying 3 hours doesn't interfere with RL things (wives and girlfriends don't object as much) as would trying to do that Friday night (quite a few Rook squads flyin in the SEA FSO's on friday) or Sunday night. Meaning sunday night is the most attractive.
Now other nights the Knights and Bishops have fielded in the 160s .. on tuesday at 10:38 it was B134, K166, R149.
http://www.dgideon.org/aceshigh/ahss27.png
On sunday they don't turn out the pilots at all they do on the other nights. And some squads have even posted that they now avoid sunday nights .. further reducing their numbers. It is not just a Rook thing .. Rooks should try to branch out to fly other nights as their squad nights. However, other squads should work at turning out their players to bolster their numbers more on sunday nights. If the arena was 160, 160, 200 that is not that bad of a spread.
So implying it is only caused by those who fly Rooks is possibly simplistic outlook.
Also stating that only Rooks have been objecting to HiTech ideas is your perception on things. Quite a few from all countries were stating or not liking HiTech first idea about a time delay. Most, from all sides seem to be on board about the disabling better rides as the numbers get out of balance .. which should only affect sundays in a extreme way .. call sunday FM2 sunday.
Dracon was not stating a country loyalty but a ride loyalty. And what he is worried about is the 12 hour limit rule. They want to fly P51Ds which are 6 ENY. He says they are willing to switch but what he is worried about is switching to a country that has the P51D (the country with say the least pilots on sunday) and then say they gain pilots and become the second most .. enough pilots to have the P51D shut off there also .. and then they are locked into that second country that can't fly P51Ds.
Not the fact that they have to switch.
All I can say is that will be the case with all the top planes .. and which is why I suggested the P51B.
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Originally posted by X2Lee
when a wall of text is this big in a thread does it get read?
inquiring minds want to know....
No. I skipped over that post. I'd read it if it were something I really was interested in, or if one of the HTC staff had posted it.
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HARRRRRRRRRRR I would have never thought the mustangs would have whined!
Originally posted by Midnight
I echo the original post. The 412th FS "Braunco Mustangs" has been a P-51 squad since its first day on April 12, 2001. We have also been rook the entire time.
If HTC implements this "disabled aircraft" feature, then the 412th is going to have to start jumping countries. This is going to become a real hassle for the squad because every time we log in we are going to have to figure out which country we are flying for at that particular time.
Someone posted about using the P-51B instead, well sorry, that's not a solution for the MA now that AHII gunnery is here. It's hard enough to get a kill with 6 guns, let alone 4.. not to mention the shorter ammo load to boot.
----
Personally, I don't see how the P-51D should be in the same ENY class as the La7 anyway. It is hardly an easy plane to kill in, and is easily defeated if flown by an un-skilled pilot.
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Originally posted by ghostdancer
Rooks turnout on sunday because it tends to fit their schedule the best over the weekend (not interfere with doing things with family and friends on friday and saturday night). Which is a major factor of why you see that night as why so many Rook squads have it as their official squad night.
Great point. Is this because more Rooks are married adults with jobs and children ? Maybe Rooks dominate due to maturity more than numbers? Maybe it's because we have more beards and white hair in our country ?
:rofl
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You can survive in the MA flying lesser than the best aircraft. You've just gotta try. I'd take the hurri over the pony anyday if you are gonna use gunnery as an excuse.
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Originally posted by wrag
I generally fly 109's :D
are the 109's gonna be withheld????
109g10's or all 109's?
But then I like the 109g2, and the g6 and the f and even sometimes the e hehe ........... hmmmmmmmm
Don't think all of em would be withheld?
Why fly pony d with that crappy eny? pony b better at acm anyway?
WAIT IS HTC GONNA TAKE MY 109????????????
AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH HH
hmmmmm well niki, spit, p38, hmmmmm, hmmm oh well :)
They can NEVAR take my 109F!!!! Durn thing has an ENY of like 43 :rofl
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Originally posted by 4ACES
HiTech needs to concentrate on fixing this --- game.... the terrain is a frame rate sucking pos.... (Reminds me of AW Big Pac over Hawaii) worry about the other later!!!
Maybe you need to get a better system?
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Midnight
Someone posted about using the P-51B instead, well sorry, that's not a solution for the MA now that AHII gunnery is here. It's hard enough to get a kill with 6 guns, let alone 4.. not to mention the shorter ammo load to boot.
so it's not about "realism" and "tactics" after all, is it?
i can't imagine the real squads you guys base yourselves upon (those that do, anyway) refusing to fly until they received their improved models....
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Originally posted by Midnight
Someone posted about using the P-51B instead, well sorry, that's not a solution for the MA now that AHII gunnery is here. It's hard enough to get a kill with 6 guns, let alone 4.. not to mention the shorter ammo load to boot.
Using this logic, you may want to consider the P-47. By this logic, the extra 2 guns may make kills easier and it has a higher ammo load.
When I fly, I usually use the FM2. It does fine with only 4 guns.
Glove
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this is a stupid rule
simple as that
i fly for knights because i know all the guys on knights (and they are the coolest)
so what if the numbers are unfair? wars are not meant to be fair. deal with whatever comes your way, and for chists sake stop all this whoopee whining and get in a plane so you can die or kill in an honourable fashion. you guys in favour of this retarded rule should A: find a squad that only flies for one country B: stop ruining others fun with silly reasons why we should all 'chop and change' and c: fight the good fight for your 'country' be it to certain victory or certain death!!
is this moaning wussy attitude what made the world free today?
damn!
its making me angry to think that so many of you dont role play your game into believing that your country is in dire peril.
this arcade attitude is what is ruining the game in the first place.
grow some hair on your nackers and stop being little pansy handed girls (no offence any females reading this, you probably have more balls than some of these lot anyhow)
Batfink :mad:
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Originally posted by mechanic
its making me angry to think that so many of you dopnt role play your game into believing that your country is in dire peril.
It's making me laugh that you do.
:p
(to each his own I suppose)
-Sik
PS: lightning bolt! lightning bolt!
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Originally posted by Shane
so it's not about "realism" and "tactics" after all, is it?
No kidding. Talk about gutless. Seems like this attitude is the way to show the least respect for the RL squad they are supposedly representing.
Not surprised to see the overlap between this crowd and the d1.0k sniperz from AH1.
Hint: make it a squad policy to join the lowest numbered team on squad night, whatever it is. Then it'll be easy for your squadmates to join the right country. If you don't find the CO when you join, tune your radio to him and ask which country the squad is fighting for this evening. Not too difficult folks.
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It's making Sik laugh, but it's kinda creaping me out.
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Originally posted by mechanic
its making me angry to think that so many of you dont role play your game into believing that your country is in dire peril.
this arcade attitude is what is ruining the game in the first place.
This is probably one of those posts where the poster will come back and apologize for being drunk or high or married or whatever.
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Originally posted by mechanic
wars are not meant to be fair.
Then why the whining because you have to fly crappy planes?
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Originally posted by X2Lee
it may well have to be an option
agree, if you cannot hit anything with 4 guns, why should you hit with 6?
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Originally posted by thrila
Originally posted by mechanic
wars are not meant to be fair.
Then why the whining because you have to fly crappy planes?
dont think he was complaining about flying crappy planes. I know what he flies 99 percent of the time. It's not likeley it will ever be on the new hitlist for un balanced side.
I think he just thinks its a dumb thing ;)
Course I could be wrong...Maybe:aok
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-Sik
PS: lightning bolt! lightning bolt!
LOL Sikboy!
It’s so ridiculous to me that I can't even tell who's trolling and who's serious.
Ahh, my innocent bride, ravaged at the hands of the invading Rook horde :mad: My puppy dog Spot, kicked with a hobnailed boot as he fought to protect her. Aunt Beru! Uncle Owen! Arrrrgh! ROOOKS WILL DIE :mad:
Sorry, brussels sprouts here I guess.
Charon
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Originally posted by mechanic
wars are not meant to be fair.
True, but games have to be.
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Originally posted by JB73
very well stated... i agree with what i have quoted.
Yea, he hit the nail on the head, well put Jackal.
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Originally posted by Charon
Aunt Beru! Uncle Owen! Arrrrgh!
:D
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Originally posted by Wotan
I don't care what your reasons are. The fact is HT implemented this to force you to decide between you ride loyalty and/or side loyalty. He did it for a reason, to balance the numbers which is something a good number of folks in this community have called for over the years. If folks can't take it upon themselves to balance the arena then it forces HT to act.
HT did this to encourage folks to switch sides and balance the numbers. The fact some of you are so set against just high lights the problem of how ridiculous side loyalty is. Most of the ones complaining are rooks. It just happens they usually enjoy close to a 100 person advantage over the other 2 sides. If the situation were reversed you and your squad wouldn’t have zip to say about it. When rooks were down folks switched sides on their own. That’s not happening now.
We act as if this a new debate. This same debate took place in Air Warrior and that was how many years ago?
This and the debate about field capture, auger dweebs, etc. The two longest running debates.
In AW originally sides were limited by a numbers cap.... because an arena could only hold so many flyers. So at times folks couldn't fly in the country they wanted.
Also when a new account joined Air Warrior it used to default to Cz I think. So people postulated that caused lopsided numbers.
Different countries had their time when they were on top for months on end and then things just kind of shifted. Some squads, most notably IAF used to change countries each new camp. (The MOL do something similar now in AH). And of course there were always stateless beings that flew wherever they felt would even the numbers.
My point in this senseless ramble about AW is that no one corporately took any action to "fix" the problem. Folks just rolled with it.
The design of AH is what makes the numbers game have a bigger impact. Design a game where the winning country reaps perkies.. you built in the problem right there. But still how long has AH been going and the numbers issue while decried, has always existed. Certainly recent history would have the Rooks with more numbers... but think back 18 months... or more... and Rooks were the doormat and Bish were the most numerous. It just is kind of cyclic.
So suddenly this must be fixed because the drop in flyers is because of numbers imbalance? Of course I don't have HT's access to data, however, I would suggest the drop in numbers is more closely linked to AH2 and designing a game whose system requirements exceed the systems that a significant number of customers owned. I have a list of my squadmates that just couldn't drop the money to upgrade to stay in the game. Not to say they won't in the future but at the drop of a hat, it wasn't possible. It was HT's marketing decision, he made it, he lives with it. But I don't think the issue needs to be disquised as a numbers problem.
That is my opinion on the issue....
My opinion on your comments. Why do you use terms like rediculous? Why do you feel the need to denigrate another person's opinion? I don't think he is being unreasonable to state his case why he doesn't want to see a plane limit. He stated why he feels that way and stated why he wants to remain in one country. Your observation that HT has decided upon a course of action is spot on... but the rest of it?
If folks can't take it upon themselves to balance the arena then it forces HT to act.
HT is forced to do nothing. If he was he would fix the bogus Strat problems etc. on the maps. HT has made a decision ( I believe, but HT can speak for himself) to adjust the design of the game, because the current design lends itself to a development of game play which he believes is undesirable based upon customer comments. If the change is well received then things get better.... if the changes are not well received, perhaps he loses more paying customers. His product, he can market it how he likes. But I certainly think his customers have every right to explain how they feel (on either side of the issue) and shouldn't be told their position is rediculous... or actually be told it is their fault that a game design problem exists.
Finally, the three country design was designed to take into account imbalances. It allows the two weaker countries to adjust their effort as required to balance against the strongest. If that isn't happening, shame on the two weaker countries... at any point. People can read the roster and see who has what numbers when and adjust accordingly. (happened in AW all the time) I personally don't think limiting plane selection is the answer. We already allow cheaper perk rides for the countries with fewer flyers. What is next? Only 50% gas for the largest country?
So my bottom line. I fly one country.... did in AW... here in AH... I fly it when it is the doormat... I fly when it has the numbers. Take the ups and downs.
Now if you would like to debate pork and auger dweebs... I would be more than willing to expound about how I feel every ride ought to be perked or a personal limit placed on the number of each type of airplane one can lose in a 24 hour period. But we need to start another thread for that one.
:rolleyes:
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Shane since you bring up "realism" then let me ask you a question. Just how many of these real squadrons had upgraded birds as you say then switched all of their birds back to old ones the next day?
I can see having x amout of birds go down in combat or for maintenance and back filling, but not every last bird. You also had many bases that had a mixed amount of birds. Typically these were only done during transition stages from one bird to the next. There were some which had B models and D models stationed at the same base on a regular basis too. Either way you just don't dump a whole squadron of birds one day to the next then go back a few days later.
I could see if they had a dynamic way of changing each sides values for target destruction. But even then that has it's issues. Though one side may have more folks than the other it doesn't mean 2 sides aren't primarily attacking the larger country. Which if and when that is the case then technically the larger country is actually outnumbered when you combine the other two attacking it together. So when this happens who should be limited?
At current stages of the game this can't and probably wont' ever be fixed. Unless HT devises a way to account for the amount of players per each side, where they are located in comparison to their enemies (by sectors) and then is able to have a dynamic code that can take all of this into account and actually decide who is really outnumbered and adjust accordingly, then it will always be a matter of what does cover of the book say not what is actually inside.
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Soup...
Nah, AW put newbies in randomly, just like AH does. One difference between this and AW is that in AW the arena limits were set at 250. Additionally, there were zone limits, which limited the total number of planes that could fly from given field.
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You people make me laugh. :)
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Originally posted by Overlag
ive not said anything about my squad and sundays. Sure most of them dont play, having work in the morning, or mainly because they've played all day but......
i play on sundays till about 3am, just when rooks start getting there stupid idea of "fun" into action, but then, like bullies at school, you never fight a even match do you........
So the Bish and Knights lack the organization, squads, desire, etc. to organize on their own to counter a Rook Sunday night?
:(
And that is somehow the fault of the Rooks?
:rofl
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
Soup...
Nah, AW put newbies in randomly, just like AH does. One difference between this and AW is that in AW the arena limits were set at 250. Additionally, there were zone limits, which limited the total number of planes that could fly from given field.
And AW wasn't dominated by land grab and GVs.. it was about flying airplanes..
:p
I had forgotten the limits of planes that could take off from fields.
Good memory.... but I still don't think drastic action to balance sides is warranted. More esprit in the other countries to counter the effects is what is needed.
I mean, I've seen some of that over the last couple of nights. I think I've had 5 fields to fly from for two nights running. Good fights tho!
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Originally posted by Midnight
I
Someone posted about using the P-51B instead, well sorry, that's not a solution for the MA now that AHII gunnery is here. It's hard enough to get a kill with 6 guns, let alone 4.. not to mention the shorter ammo load to boot.
Personally, I don't see how the P-51D should be in the same ENY class as the La7 anyway. It is hardly an easy plane to kill in, and is easily defeated if flown by an un-skilled pilot.
Try flying the Pony B Exclusive for a week just as an experiment.
Bet inside a week your at least as good in the B as you were in the D
Probably better.
I actually find the b model alot easier to get kills in.
6 guns 4 guns 1 gun doesnt matter.
Its where the bullets go.
Only takes one bullet in the noggen to ruin someones day
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Wow, after reading some of the long winded self important 'my side first' rants in here I have finally figured something out...
Most of you don't fly... You can't.. There is no time after you write your 1500 word essay.
Fly more cry less. Be good little citizens :D
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4510,
I never flew AW; I thought it sucked from the early days on. I don’t care anything about AW.
It’s in HT’s interest to keep the game balanced. No one will suffer through being the perpetual underdog or cannon fodder for long. Numbers have been complained about at various times over the years. Folks complained and then folks took it on themselves to fix the problem.
In times past each side has had its time in the bucket. The solution was always found by the players and squads who switched to even things out. HT attempted several other small fixes to encourage side balance using perks and eny values. These haven't worked.
With the current irrational "side loyalty" folks are refusing to switch. Folks should switch because it makes game play better when all sides are at or near to parity. This is game not a real war. Friends won’t be lost and if they are new friendships will develop as well as new enemies. At the very least folks may actually discover a new plane or two.
When rooks were down folks moved over to balance the numbers. Now that the rooks have the numbers all you hear is "Rook or Die" and "I won’t betray my country" blah blah blah. It’s idiotic in the extreme.
HT saw this was an issue and pointed out that even those folks who agree that the sides are unbalanced are unwilling to switch themselves.
I am all but sure HT has lost customers due to the gangbang. It is a smart business move to see to it that all sides are balanced and have an equal opportunity for fun.
He is forced to do something because the players are unwilling to do it themselves. Any other BS you want to wrap into it is beside the point. I am not saying I agree with the solution because I don’t. However, something needed to be done.
As to strat, who cares? I surely don't...
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Originally posted by 4ACES
HiTech needs to concentrate on fixing this --- game.... the terrain is a frame rate sucking pos.... (Reminds me of AW Big Pac over Hawaii) worry about the other later!!!
buy a new pc
anything from 2002 onwards can run this at a good enough fps
but then if your still using your 1998 pc then you deserve to get crap fps.
knowing pcs cost less in the US i Bet you could get a good enough pc for alittle under $300
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Originally posted by 4510
So the Bish and Knights lack the organization, squads, desire, etc. to organize on their own to counter a Rook Sunday night?
:(
And that is somehow the fault of the Rooks?
:rofl
or maybe bish/knit have more European players that need to sleep?
im not moving to the USA just to even the sides...hell you wont even switch a country in a game...yet you want me to in real life? :rolleyes:
but then, theres another thread in GD that a European rook asking for the teams to be evened......because knits/bish normaly have 50 in the morning, while rooks only have 25-30.....
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Phookat:
No kidding. Talk about gutless. Seems like this attitude is the way to show the least respect for the RL squad they are supposedly representing.
Not surprised to see the overlap between this crowd and the d1.0k sniperz from AH1.
Gutless? Not showing respect? The insult method of debate doesn't work for me because it lacks any reason.
Hint: make it a squad policy to join the lowest numbered team on squad night, whatever it is. Then it'll be easy for your squadmates to join the right country. If you don't find the CO when you join, tune your radio to him and ask which country the squad is fighting for this evening. Not too difficult folks.
If it were only that simple. We have 24 members in the squadron who fly on any of the 7 days out of the week spread across 12 hours worth of time zones. You'll probably find any of 2-8 out of 24 pilots on sometime in those 12 hours throughout the week. On squad nights we have about 8-10 guys show up which usually aren't the same 8-10 guys the week before. With a 12 hour limit on country switching the chances are pretty good we'll have guys stranded in different countries on any night of the week making it more difficult to fly altogether as a squad. Thinking about the probablistic math is already making my head hurt. Hopefully this begins to give a picture of the scheduling headache this presents for a group that enjoys very tight teamwork.
Bottom line for the 412th is this- (a) P-51's, (b) teamwork & camaraderie, (c) getting kills together. This is what we find fun. Isn't that what we all really care about and the bottom line motivation for any of us to fly in AH?
The new ENY system to encourage country switching presents multiple dilemmas for squadrons like the 412th or 339th.
We'll learn to deal with it but to oversimplify the problems to be solved is not being "REALISTIC" ;).
And by the way, let's not get started on the holy grail of "realism". It's a slippery slope because if anyone gave it any "real" thought to it they would realize that the so called realism isn't very real at all.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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i support your cause 100% no matter what the peon flammers might say your cause is just and i salute you
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Could someone tell me how this balancing scheme works? (Too lazy to search through 500 posts to find out).
Is there still a time limit on switching countries? Was wondering what happens if you are forced to switch, and then the numbers change to favor your new country such that your favorite plane isn't avail there either. You could be locked into the new country by the time limit.
I have a bad feeling about this... :-(
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>>>The design of AH is what makes the numbers game have a bigger impact. Design a game where the winning country reaps perkies.. you built in the problem right there. But still how long has AH been going and the numbers issue while decried, has always existed. Certainly recent history would have the Rooks with more numbers... but think back 18 months... or more... and Rooks were the doormat and Bish were the most numerous. It just is kind of cyclic. <<<
Yes, but then, many bishes and knitwits came to rookieland to suport it, even whole squads.
Problem is as the cycle turns and now rookies are the prob, no one from them come back to the weakest country.
So, YOU are who asked for HTC solution.
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Originally posted by Overlag
or maybe bish/knit have more European players that need to sleep?
im not moving to the USA just to even the sides...hell you wont even switch a country in a game...yet you want me to in real life? :rolleyes:
but then, theres another thread in GD that a European rook asking for the teams to be evened......because knits/bish normaly have 50 in the morning, while rooks only have 25-30.....
I can feel your pain ... as far as getting up early.... I flew AW from Germany for a couple of years. I know what it is like to get up at 3am to fly with my squad.
:(
However I think the numbers popularity thing for Rooks is a direct result of the Rook organization (RJO) or whatever it is called. Other countries could do the same thing.
Also the BISH and KNITs vs the ROOKs seems to have worked the last couple nights. Of course you COULD say it was carried to the extreme... being as it was 230-250 BISH/KNITS vs 140 ROOKS.. but hey... if that is what it takes... the fights were fun.
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Originally posted by Wotan
4510,
I never flew AW; I thought it sucked from the early days on. I don’t care anything about AW.
Which of course invalidates any other points mentioned concerning how the AW community and the AW staff handled a very similar situation. Makes sense to me. If the game sucked, then nothing related to the game has relevance. I understand completely.
It’s in HT’s interest to keep the game balanced. No one will suffer through being the perpetual underdog or cannon fodder for long. Numbers have been complained about at various times over the years. Folks complained and then folks took it on themselves to fix the problem.
It is in HT's interest to provide a gaming experience that is enjoyed by the MAJORITY of his account holders, not the vocal minority. Glad I don't have to decide which way to turn.
I joined this whole thread for two reasons. I think the original poster had every right to voice his opinion concerning this impending change. A paying customer that wants to make sure that HT hears his side. Why everyone wanted to step up with such things as "fly something else" etc. is beyond me. He pays his money and he has a right to ask for the product he wants. Ultimately he has the right not to pay for a product that no longer meets his needs.
Secondly, I wanted to offer that this isn't a new problem and "flying communities" (insert flight sim name here) have experienced and survived these very same problems without draconian measures.
In times past each side has had its time in the bucket. The solution was always found by the players and squads who switched to even things out. HT attempted several other small fixes to encourage side balance using perks and eny values. These haven't worked.
And do we the community have access to reliable data that shows that the sides are terribly uneven for large amounts of time or are we just pointing to certain peak events, like a Rook Sunday night? For what length of time can we show data that has the Rooks with more numbers than either the BISH and KNITS combined? If we are talking small spike events and after that BISH and KNITS have more total.... then the BISH and KNITS can handle this in the arena without HT forcing a fix. (as they have the last several nights) Might mean BISH and KNITS have more trouble forcing a reset as they will have to decide when or if they turn on each other but.....
With the current irrational "side loyalty" folks are refusing to switch. Folks should switch because it makes game play better when all sides are at or near to parity. This is game not a real war. Friends won’t be lost and if they are new friendships will develop as well as new enemies. At the very least folks may actually discover a new plane or two.
Just a matter of viewpoint. It may be irrational to you, but until you pay the other folks' AH accounts, they have a right to fly it their way. Same thing goes for plane choice. If a dweeb wants to fly one and only one plane, you and I might have an opinion, but it's their business what they fly, not ours.
When rooks were down folks moved over to balance the numbers. Now that the rooks have the numbers all you hear is "Rook or Die" and "I won’t betray my country" blah blah blah. It’s idiotic in the extreme.
So at one time we had people willing to change countries, and then something in the "Rook experience" suddenly caused these very same people to be unwilling to change elsewhere to even things up? Leopards changing spots? A mind control drug perhaps?
HT saw this was an issue and pointed out that even those folks who agree that the sides are unbalanced are unwilling to switch themselves.
I'm not sure what HT saw, I haven't seen any data. I assume he is responding to input from the community. Of course the unhappy folks speak louder and more often than the happy ones. Now that he is preparing to make a change to appease some folks, he is hearing from the formerly happy ones. Vicious circle. If I had data that showed that the Rooks outnumbered the Knits and Bish combined on a continual basis I would be more inclined to think something had to be done. But realistically it would have to be significantly larger numbers. The whole reason the game is built with 3 countries is to negate lopsided numbers. If we are going to put measures in to FORCE equal sides, then dump one of the countries and we can have just a two sided arena.
I am all but sure HT has lost customers due to the gangbang. It is a smart business move to see to it that all sides are balanced and have an equal opportunity for fun.
I won't doubt some customers have been lost on the gangbang. I don't know of any but that is neither here nor there. Lost ALOT more customers with the AH2 "upgrade" I'd wager. I don't see us opening up AH1 again.
He is forced to do something because the players are unwilling to do it themselves. Any other BS you want to wrap into it is beside the point. I am not saying I agree with the solution because I don’t. However, something needed to be done.
My input or opinions are BS. Glad you got that out in the open. Wouldn't want that to one of those implied things. HT is not forced to do any one course of action. As a businessman I agree he needs to evaluate the game play and decide if he thinks it needs to be changed. If he wants to change it, change it. He gets paid to make the big decisions and can monitor the bottom line. If his bottom line looks good, then it doesn't matter if the change made some people unhappy.
As to strat, who cares? I surely don't...
Which is your opinion of what your gaming experience requires. HT can put a check mark in the "Who Cares Column" for fixing the strat. I personally think if you've had maps for two plus years that have porked Strat... either shut the strat / HQ functions off or fix them. So my check goes in a different column.
Salute !
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Its HTCs game. Its by far the best one of it's kind available, with or without this change.
Personally I welcome the change. But then I'm the type of guy that switches from the side with most players, & I dont thnk my preffered plane is on the hit-list anyway:aok
Anton
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Originally posted by Sikboy
So then, it's not about History after all?
-Sik
Not if they are flying Jabos. Looking through the 339th History, the dive bombing they did was around D-Day which would have been B Models carrying 250 or 500 pounders. Very few D's in action at that point.
None of the 8th AF 51s used rockets so they shouldn't use those if they want to be 'historical" And they should still be flying Bs with the Ds well into 45.
Might as well suck it up and take the 51Bs with bombs if they are going to be historical. Could be worse. They could be stuck with the plane they had before coming overseas if AH had the P39
Dan/Slack
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AH isnt really a good depiction of the war. In real thing a bomb or two would take out a hanger, not so in this case. All those bomb craters you see on the runway, they would kill you if you decided to drive over them while taking off. B17s NEVER took off at bases that were being attacked to serve as ackstars. Planes with oil hits or other possibly catastrophic damage made every attempt to egress and go home safely, not so here. You didnt have to knock down all the buildings in France and make sure they stayed down to take territory. Very few furballs (if any?) were fought just for the sake of furballing. Numerical majority was considered a good thing. Now as soon as we go to a system of bombing the runway and leaving craters to kill the persistant lemings that just cant stop upping I will be more than happy to carry 2 250lb bombs. Oh yea you only had one life so you only got to die once with no reup
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Originally posted by jdpete75
AH isnt really a good depiction of the war. In real thing a bomb or two would take out a hanger, not so in this case. All those bomb craters you see on the runway, they would kill you if you decided to drive over them while taking off. B17s NEVER took off at bases that were being attacked to serve as ackstars. Planes with oil hits or other possibly catastrophic damage made every attempt to egress and go home safely, not so here. You didnt have to knock down all the buildings in France and make sure they stayed down to take territory. Very few furballs (if any?) were fought just for the sake of furballing. Numerical majority was considered a good thing. Now as soon as we go to a system of bombing the runway and leaving craters to kill the persistant lemings that just cant stop upping I will be more than happy to carry 2 250lb bombs. Oh yea you only had one life so you only got to die once with no reup
Exactly, which is why asking for an aircraft based on 'historical' connections is silly and I'm as history oriented as anyone.
So take the Bs as a historical connection and enjoy the flight :)
Dan/Slack
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Originally posted by anton
Its HTCs game. Its by far the best one of it's kind available, with or without this change.
Personally I welcome the change. But then I'm the type of guy that switches from the side with most players, & I dont thnk my preffered plane is on the hit-list anyway:aok
Anton
Anton,
This game has a gameplay model. That model used perks, scores, resets etc to define success. The model is dual in that there are perks and stats for the individualists and perks and stats for country success.
Country success = Land Grab... Reset.
That is most often accomplished by organization, team play, and usually a numerical advantage.
Now we come along and say... Forget country loyalty.... you should change sides to make the fights more even. (as a furballer I am all for that... care less about land grab other than it limits my options).
So in effect this change is counter to the very model upon which the gameplay was designed.
We have 3 countrys... why? Why not 2? Because 2 would make it hard to ensure that we had resonably even numbers. 3 would provide a check and balance. Well the 3 country system isn't working. Why? Does one country so significantly outnumber the other two combined for a large amount of time (days)? Or is it because the two countries that need to focus more on the bigger country can't organize to do that?
The last two nights I thought Knits and Bish countered the Rooks very well. Penned Rooks on the main island all night.
3 country check and balance... worked like a charm.
Just when the gameplay model actually begins to work as designed... we make a change... that submarines almost all of the game model decisions.
Makes no sense to me...
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Which of course invalidates any other points mentioned concerning how the AW community and the AW staff handled a very similar situation. Makes sense to me. If the game sucked, then nothing related to the game has relevance. I understand completely.
If you want to talk about AW then I am not interested. I didn't fly AW and honestly don't care anything about it all. There have been many AW threads on this forum and if AW is something you want to discuss then I suggest a review of those old threads. So yes AW is completely irrelevant to me. Maybe some one else wants to talk about it.
It is in HT's interest to provide a gaming experience that is enjoyed by the MAJORITY of his account holders, not the vocal minority. Glad I don't have to decide which way to turn.
I joined this whole thread for two reasons. I think the original poster had every right to voice his opinion concerning this impending change. A paying customer that wants to make sure that HT hears his side. Why everyone wanted to step up with such things as "fly something else" etc. is beyond me. He pays his money and he has a right to ask for the product he wants. Ultimately he has the right not to pay for a product that no longer meets his needs.
Secondly, I wanted to offer that this isn't a new problem and "flying communities" (insert flight sim name here) have experienced and survived these very same problems without draconian measures.
Of course he has a right to his opinion, as do I or you. That's not at issue. As much as he wants his opinion heard in regards to the upcoming changes there are those of us who disagree with his opinion and in order that HT maintains a balanced view we make sure to contrast the two. One guy says it will mean the end of all things and another guy says it won’t.
The majority of the players haven’t come out against HT's plan. Where's your polling data.
Plenty of paying customers have said that they don’t enjoy the game when the numbers are lopsided. A majority? Who knows, it doesn’t really matter.
However, when folks leave AH they fill out a little feed back pop up. I would guess HT has read more then a few folks say the game play is what keeps them away. IMO one of the worse aspects of AH's game play is the horde. It's even worse when the horde has a large numerical advantage.
Of course this isn’t a new issue. Not even if AH. That doesn’t mean that it’s not a real issue. The only difference that I see in AH now in regards to the past was that in the past players moved on their own. Now they aren’t so willing and espouse such things as "Rook 'til I die" "I won’t betray my country" etc...
And do we the community have access to reliable data that shows that the sides are terribly uneven for large amounts of time or are we just pointing to certain peak events, like a Rook Sunday night? For what length of time can we show data that has the Rooks with more numbers than either the BISH and KNITS combined? If we are talking small spike events and after that BISH and KNITS have more total.... then the BISH and KNITS can handle this in the arena without HT forcing a fix. (as they have the last several nights) Might mean BISH and KNITS have more trouble forcing a reset as they will have to decide when or if they turn on each other but.....
It’s funny that you demand data especially when it follows a claim like "the majority of AH paying customers". You certainly don’t have data to support that. Ask HT how players who play AH actually read or post of this forum. Not a majority I bet. Its up to HT to explain his reasoning if he chooses to.
But since you want "data" you can search the forum. There have been a number of threads that track player numbers over the years. Ghostdancer in another thread provide some in the context of this discussion.
Just a matter of viewpoint. It may be irrational to you, but until you pay the other folks' AH accounts, they have a right to fly it their way. Same thing goes for plane choice. If a dweeb wants to fly one and only one plane, you and I might have an opinion, but it's their business what they fly, not ours.
It’s irrational when it gets to the point where the game needs to be redesigned because folks are unwilling on their own to correct the problem.
Where I have told anyone what they should fly? You can search my replies (Batz or Wotan) on this bbs to see exactly how I feel on that.
Even in the context of the current discussion I have said I don’t agree with HT's solution because I don’t think folks should be denied the plane of their choice outright.
I'm not sure what HT saw, I haven't seen any data. I assume he is responding to input from the community. Of course the unhappy folks speak louder and more often than the happy ones. Now that he is preparing to make a change to appease some folks, he is hearing from the formerly happy ones. Vicious circle. If I had data that showed that the Rooks outnumbered the Knits and Bish combined on a continual basis I would be more inclined to think something had to be done. But realistically it would have to be significantly larger numbers. The whole reason the game is built with 3 countries is to negate lopsided numbers. If we are going to put measures in to FORCE equal sides, then dump one of the countries and we can have just a two sided arena.
HT doesnt owe any of us "proof" or the reasoning behind his descisions. However, he did explain himself rather well in his post on the sublect. But if the number imbalance only occurs occassionally and or rarely then the ride restrictions will be very rare as well. So what's the problem?
We are not talking about any other solution other then the one HT has decided on. 3 countries, 4 countries, 10 countries who cares. This game has 3 and HT's solution to the side imbalance is to restrict certain rides that fall below a given eny value. That is what this thread is about.
I won't doubt some customers have been lost on the gangbang. I don't know of any but that is neither here nor there. Lost ALOT more customers with the AH2 "upgrade" I'd wager. I don't see us opening up AH1 again.
I wont speculate and say the driving force behind Ht's descision to restrict certain rides was customers leaving. I said that I am sure he's lost some. If he wants to tell us that he will. Every customer who leaves is asked for some feedback as to why they are leaving.
Most of those who threatened to quit Ah when AH2 came out still play AH with the exception of those with low end hardware. I would bet even those folks will be back if and once the get better equipment.
But lets say that the number imbalance isnt even an issue except rarely. Let's assume HT had made a rash descision in restricting rides once the number imbalance reaches a certain threshold. This would only mean that on rare occasions, when that threshold is reached, some planes will be restricted for the side that has the advantage. So what? If the number imbalance is rare then the ride restrictions will be rare.
My input or opinions are BS. Glad you got that out in the open. Wouldn't want that to one of those implied things. HT is not forced to do any one course of action. As a businessman I agree he needs to evaluate the game play and decide if he thinks it needs to be changed. If he wants to change it, change it. He gets paid to make the big decisions and can monitor the bottom line. If his bottom line looks good, then it doesn't matter if the change made some people unhappy.
Here I have to question your reading ability.
How does this:
Any other BS you want to wrap into it is beside the point.
equal to:
My input or opinions are BS
If you remember what your wrote in your first reply to me then you will see that, like in your last reply, you mixed in multiple issues you have with AH and that have nothing to do with this thread.
Things like AW and strat etc are examples. As I said I have no interest in either of those. Nor do I care to talk about adding more sides of taking some away. That is the "BS" I was referring to.
Which is your opinion of what your gaming experience requires. HT can put a check mark in the "Who Cares Column" for fixing the strat. I personally think if you've had maps for two plus years that have porked Strat... either shut the strat / HQ functions off or fix them. So my check goes in a different column.
Strat and war winning are not something I care about in a flight game. I play to engage other folks in air to air combat. Anything more then that doesn’t interest me.
Strat is not the subject of this thread anyway. If you want to talk about strat please search through the previous posts on the subject. Or maybe you can find some one who wants to to discuss it with you.
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Originally posted by Wotan
Strat and war winning are not something I care about in a flight game. I play to engage other folks in air to air combat. Anything more then that doesn’t interest me.
Then why not just grab some folks to go into the Dueling Arena ? Why change the setup in MA to make it more like the DA (which it sounds is more to your liking) ?
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because you're supposed to fight for victory in the MA too, not just sneak the map room or suicide jabo or vulch + gangbang and generally put no importance in using that internet connection to actually connect with other players...
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Hyrax81st,
What are you talking about? I haven't advocated changing anything. I know its late but please read that reply in the correct context.
Here it is:
4510 mentions strat, I reply that I dont care about strat.
None of that has to do with the topic of the thread or with or HT's solution to side balancing.
So please reread it if you are confused.
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Here it is:
4510 mentions strat, I reply that I dont care about strat.
None of that has to do with the topic of the thread or with or HT's solution to side balancing.
So please reread it if you are confused. [/B]
I was confused... my apologies.
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Originally posted by Wotan
The majority of the players haven’t come out against HT's plan. Where's your polling data.
Point to where I said a Majority have taken a certain position. I believe I was indicating HiTech had a responsibility to the Majority not the vocal minority.
Plenty of paying customers have said that they don’t enjoy the game when the numbers are lopsided. A majority? Who knows, it doesn’t really matter.
Define plenty.. cite your source?
However, when folks leave AH they fill out a little feed back pop up. I would guess HT has read more then a few folks say the game play is what keeps them away.
I won't guess.. but I certainly hope that is correct.
It’s funny that you demand data especially when it follows a claim like "the majority of AH paying customers". You certainly don’t have data to support that.
I think you missed the point the first time you paraphrased my statement and you are no closer now. I was speaking of his responsibility to... never defined the position of... the majority.
But since you want "data" you can search the forum. There have been a number of threads that track player numbers over the years. Ghostdancer in another thread provide some in the context of this discussion.
Well I'm giving HiTech the benefit of the doubt here. Ghost's are snapshots. His data doesn't support HiTech's action. I would think system logs etc. would be more definitive.
It’s irrational when it gets to the point where the game needs to be redesigned because folks are unwilling on their own to correct the problem.
Only if you accept the position that the game needs to be redesigned. I've yet to be convinced it is a problem that needs to be "fixed" by altering the game design.
Where I have told anyone what they should fly? You can search my replies (Batz or Wotan) on this bbs to see exactly how I feel on that.
You are correct... you didn't.... it was a continuation of my thought process... expressing an opinion about choice. My bad.
Even in the context of the current discussion I have said I don’t agree with HT's solution because I don’t think folks should be denied the plane of their choice outright.
Then we agree on at least one point.
HT doesnt owe any of us "proof" or the reasoning behind his descisions. However, he did explain himself rather well in his post on the sublect.
Absolutely correct. He doesn't owe anything to his paying customers. However, conversely he then has no right to expect patience, understanding, tolerance of a less than perfect product. Not that he has ever asked for that.... but he certainly has provided the less than perfect product.
But if the number imbalance only occurs occassionally and or rarely then the ride restrictions will be very rare as well. So what's the problem?
If the problem is rare there is no need for a "fix".
We are not talking about any other solution other then the one HT has decided on. 3 countries, 4 countries, 10 countries who cares. This game has 3 and HT's solution to the side imbalance is to restrict certain rides that fall below a given eny value. That is what this thread is about.
If we need a fix to balance the sides (3 country model won't) and the result of that fix is encouraging people to change countries counter to the game play model of cooperative missions, land grabbing, resets. Then we are breaking one thing to fix another.
Most of those who threatened to quit Ah when AH2 came out still play AH with the exception of those with low end hardware. I would bet even those folks will be back if and once the get better equipment.
Cite your source and data please.
But lets say that the number imbalance isnt even an issue except rarely. Let's assume HT had made a rash descision in restricting rides once the number imbalance reaches a certain threshold. This would only mean that on rare occasions, when that threshold is reached, some planes will be restricted for the side that has the advantage. So what? If the number imbalance is rare then the ride restrictions will be rare.
If it is rare... then there is no need for a fix.
Could we make a logical leap here in this discussion? If we have an imbalance issue... ( to have an imbalance issue that the 3 country model can't fix), one country must SIGNIFICANTLY outnumber the combined strength of the other two on a very frequent basis.... and... the players themselves will not fix it willingly.... then it must mean that.....
BISH plus KNITS do not come close to equalling ROOKS. (ref SIGNIFICANTLY outnumber).
If that is the case... and the Rooks won't move willingly... then we are putting in effect a game play change.... that apparently the MAJORITY doesn't support. Since if they supported equalizing the numbers some would have moved and done so. Again.... I don't know the MAJORITY's position... but I would suggest that if the MAJORITY wanted equal sides... we would have it already!
Here I have to question your reading ability.
No need to question my reading ability... question my interpretation perhaps. Apparently some points I made or data I used you quantified as BS. Apparently because the situations I used as an example fell outside a frame of reference which you were willing to use. You out of hand dismissed the management of a like online flight game because you had no interest in that game etc. I have since stopped trying to use anything outside of the narrow scope of what you will accept to continue the discussion.
If you remember what your wrote in your first reply to me then you will see that, like in your last reply, you mixed in multiple issues you have with AH and that have nothing to do with this thread.
Things like AW and strat etc are examples. As I said I have no interest in either of those. Nor do I care to talk about adding more sides of taking some away. That is the "BS" I was referring to.
I have accepted that. If it doesn't fit your narrow scope then any example or reference to actions, lack of action, etc. with those topics as examples are quantified as BS. I got it.
Strat and war winning are not something I care about in a flight game. I play to engage other folks in air to air combat. Anything more then that doesn’t interest me.
Well you keep narrowing down the field of what can be used for discussion it will soon be.... What interests Wotan and only what interests Wotan. Pretty tough to discuss an open subject with such a closed agenda.
Strat is not the subject of this thread anyway. If you want to talk about strat please search through the previous posts on the subject. Or maybe you can find some one who wants to to discuss it with you.
Well if this change affected only Air to Air Combat I could understand your objection. However it affects a much broader range of game play issues. However I guess it is back to Wotan and what interests him are the only points of discussion.
FWIW.. I don't care a hoot about strats with the exception of how it affects my ability to get the plane I want to fly to the fight I want. But if either of us thinks AH isn't about land grab... reset... and one country winning over another... then we are delusional at best.
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Originally posted by Wotan
Hyrax81st,
What are you talking about? I haven't advocated changing anything. I know its late but please read that reply in the correct context.
Here it is:
4510 mentions strat, I reply that I dont care about strat.
None of that has to do with the topic of the thread or with or HT's solution to side balancing.
So please reread it if you are confused.
Well I have to disagree in as much as.... putting in a "fix" the intent of which is to make people change sides or to hamper the ability of one country to grab land or obtain a reset is directly affecting war winning and the strat model. Might not interest you but certainly belongs in this thread.
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Originally posted by phookat
This is probably one of those posts where the poster will come back and apologize for being drunk or high or married or whatever.
sorry about that post, i was a little drunk, smoking a joint,
and my damn wife is giving me hell.
but seriously, i enjoy the game because i love WW2 planes, i love dogfights and i love to pretend that i really am a pilot and my life and country is at risk and this i believe is what will make me play for as long as my misses will tolerate it.
its the guys that just fly aimlessly about blasting cannons at red icons from 1k with no real regard for make believe fun.
they play Arcade games
I like sims
and you're all still pansy handed girls :p
War is not meant to be fair. its a war sim.
im sure they could make a 'sit round and BS on ch1 whilst HO'ing fish in a barrel' game for those that desire it.
batfink
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Originally posted by mechanic
sorry about that post, i was a little drunk, smoking a joint, and my damn wife is giving me hell.
Here, take mine, please. And have an O'douls on me. :D
Originally posted by mechanic
its the guys that just fly aimlessly about blasting cannons at red icons from 1k with no real regard for make believe fun.
they play Arcade games
I like sims
There is yet a third group of people who are interested in the realism of the physical environment (flight models, damage models, etc), but who treat the war aspect as a game whose purpose is to encourage various types of combat between the realistic planes.
But whatever. Play as you like. In this case, you can easily pretend there was a temporary glitch on the LA7 assembly line, due to strain from the huge production demands. Such things happen, especially in the more advanced factories that build the more advanced planes. ;)
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Squadrons of the 339th FG
503th Fighter Squadron
504th Fighter Squadron
505th Fighter Squadron
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assigned 8th AAF: 4 April 1944
Wing/Command Assignment
VIII FC, 66 FW: 4 April 1944.
3 BD, 66 FW: 15 Sep. 1944.
3 AD, 66 FW: 1 Jan. 1945.
Combat Aircraft:
P-51 B
P-51 C
P-51 D
P-51 K