Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kweassa on August 14, 2004, 12:26:35 AM
-
Quite frankly, I was a bit surprised to see the side-balancing mechanism being implemented so quickly.
Even moreso, was the strictness and harshness of it - in your very first posting about this matter you've just suggested a time limitation before being able to take off again. Somehow, in actual implementation the 'time limitation' has changed to 'plane removal according to ENY' - which is IMO a much more radical solution to it all.
Merely a few hours has passed, and the reaction of the players are very extreme. While careful voices urge people to calm down and see what it might add(or take away) from the gameplay, most people are infuriated it seems.
Some squadrons, specialzing in a certain plane, have announced that they would move from their country of origin if the numbers obstruct their operations. For instance, the 412th has announced that if the Sunday Rook numbers persist and it limits their operations, they'll move to Knits/Bish side.
Now, purely considering the effect of it, it looks like exactly what you have pictured it to be. A squad will move to the other country. Numbers will be balanced.
However, in a more intimate aspect, the 412th for instance, is forced to break all their former ties with Rooks...and as for the Rooks, losing the 412th is losing a very valuable asset - the shocking part of this is that the decisions were more or less forced from a direct means of intervention to balance the numbers, which I find it a very odd and rare thing to come from HTC.
I view the reactions of many people quite sympathetically. While I support the side-balancing mechanism, I can't help but wonder "does it have to be this harsh?". It's those kind of reactions which I was specifically worried about when a side-balancing mechanism was under discussion.
.....
I can't seem to shake it from my head that there's an alternative to this.
Basically, in your very first posting about side balancing, I've suggested an alternative means of limitation in numbers by perks.
Essentially, the expected effect is simular to what it is now. When their favorite planes become perked, and gets more expensive with increasing pilot numbers, many people will probably have to choose to fly other planes, or jump sides.
People don't care about ENY changes. It's a simple analogy coming from observations of basic human nature. People don't much care about how many perks they earn - as long as they have a fight, and got nothing to lose from it. However, if a plane becomes perked, he loses something if he gets shot down.
People are more sensitive about what they might lose, rather than what they might gain. Thus, however meager it is, if perks are applied to planes it will work as a limiting factor.
Now, unlike removing a plane from use, this 'limitation' is set on relative factors, and relies on what people might choose.
While removing a plane from use directly achieves its results, slapping a perk on it expects people to voluntarily use other planes, or switch sides to use what they want.. and thus, it is not a 100% sure-proof method of forcing a balance, but it is more lenient and less infuriating in that people have a choice - whether to risk perks, fly other planes, or jump sides. They still can fly the planes they want, if they are willing to pay a price for it.
It is doubtless that you've already considered this alternative, and decided that it wasn't strict enough to force numbers balance. However, perhaps you might have overlooked the side-effects it might bring, and also overestimated the need for an absolute balance in pure numbers. By the current method, it is very possible you might be able to achieve almost perfect numbers balance in the MA.. but along the process a lot of things may come in jeopardy.
What's done is done. And the side balancing needs to be tested out. But if it continues to be problematic, I recommend that you try using perk points as an alternative.
The basic mechanism remains same, but instead of removing the planes of that certain ENY when arena is imbalanced, a perk is applied to that previously free plane of certain ENY - if imbalance continues to grow, more and more planes become perked, and the newly perked planes become more expensive.
-
Please pay no attention to kweassas level headed statement. nothing to see here just move on to the next topic where we can yell in caps and continue to call each other name:p
this seems like a viable alternative to me and I could live with it.
-
I also suggested this in the big thread. It would have to start somewhere painful like 20 points though, otherwise it would have no effect.
-
From past experience and without even bothering to read what Kweassa says he's probably talking a lot of sense which most sane people would agree with - Hitech should offer him a job - at very least to handle PR.
-
cc karnak, but also remember that a few perks cleared the skies for the most part of C-hogs. I just dont feel that a pony is worth big points IMO. By far most of my A2A kills are in a Seafire (seems to fly well for me) so even the disabling feature wont affect me very much if I want to up and furball (2/3 of my time) JABO is when I like the D model. I generally come from 2 1/2 to 3 sectors away and after the drop and egress I generally have enough fuel to find a 190 or 2. Unless its squad night I dont generally enter into the massive fray so the mossie that you brought up is not a good choice for me. You might be a good enough pilot to get away by yourself but I am not. (I do think I could spank your mossie in my seafire though;) ) Ive also heard the B model, no dought it is a worthy substitute to the D and I tend to avoid them, but the bomb load is to small to make the long flight worth it (I like to kill VHs to suppress the town gv defense) and I could go on and on, but I wont since I am typing furiously in the dark trying not to wake my wife and have to go to bed. My main point is that the D model isnt a real great fighter that can turn a fight one way or the other. Check my stats I kill them all the time in my seafire, they cant turn and if they do turn more than once they are cannon fodder. I think that a good 50% if not more D models in the air are being flown by relatively new pilots that are flying it just because it is a P-51D Mustang the best known US airplane of WW2. Its the first plane I flew here in AH and I flew it the whole first night until 2 in the morning just because I thought it was was cool to be able to. I wasnt turning the odds in anybodies favor, I didnt even get a kill in it. As a bomb truck it is pretty good though and is worth a few points to have the ability to kill a hanger in one pass.
-
Originally posted by Karnak
I also suggested this in the big thread. It would have to start somewhere painful like 20 points though, otherwise it would have no effect.
how about:
Perk price portion due to ENY-balancing is paid with perks earned since the ENY-balancing implementation (yesterday or so), and the portion due to the regular ENY-"gameplay" limitation is paid with the perks owned since before yesterday.
-
I don't know, I don't mind the complete disabling of planes like it is now, but the perking of planes would be OK too. Probably a lot more palatable to most people.
-
good post Kweassa, yeppers I am for it, even though the plane availability would hardly ever bother me as it is set now, unless knights had like a 3 to 1 advantage.........
-
Kweassa I remeber reading you thoughts on perk planes a long time ago, I agreed but if I remember right the majority were against it.
You'll still get the same whines from the same players about paying for La7, P51 etc. With the added side effect of even more runners.
If this does have the effect of squads moving from side to side then it has had the desired effect.
-
i think this should be put in BUT
reset the perks of everplayer in the game
only way it could work to full effect
-
My alternative was to limit what ord you could load.
I mean its not like you saw 1k bombs being put on every plane back in 43.
So limit the high country in both amount & weight of what they can load.
This CLEARLY would have an inpact on their offensive capability.
While letting them fly whatever they like on defense.
As one side gained more & more members options in the hanger would just not be available.
Guns packages & ammo loads could be included.
This won't effect the spit/la7/pony driver who just wants to vulch.
But it will effect how fast they can capture fields with limited ordanace.
-
Perking/removing planes will never work; they'll just move onto the next aircraft.
Removing the use of frontline bases would have more of an effect imo but I'm sure HTC will come to a better idea soon.
-
Kweassa:
Thanks for the gracious remarks regarding the 412th. We've made a lot of good friends in rookland in other squads and we value the strong bonds we've formed over the years. I know some don't understand it but that is something we value and one of the reasons that makes flying fun for us. The bonds and the teamwork are even tighter among our squadron.
As I've mentioned in another thread the new mechanism is a double dilemma for a squadron like ours: (1) it makes it more difficult to fly the plane we like to fly and (2) it makes it more difficult to fly as a group together.
We'll adjust. If going to the bish or knits is what we have to do then we will do it and start relationships over again. However what has me worried is having to go country chasing and potentially having squadron members stranded in different countries because of the country switch rule since we have 24 pilots that are online at various times 7 days out of the week.
I would even be happy if the system auto-balanced at each start of a TOD or map change and evened out the overall numbers per side by assigning squads to specific countries of the system's choosing but as it is we may be like a dog chasing our tail trying to find our ride of choice along with flying with our squad-mates.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
-
I agree with Kweassa but HT made HIS decision.
-
Modifieing perk values was the other option I considered. I choose the ENY because
1. I didn't belive the Perk would be a strong enough force.
2. It effects lesser pilots more then better pilots.
And also the current system is choosen. It will not be removed until we have a good idea how well it works. It can not be evalutated over days or even weeks.
So I would apreciate all the whines and counter slams to be droped. What I would be intrested in is small modifications needed to ENY values or the settings of when and how it kicks in.
HiTech
-
Originally posted by hitech
Modifieing perk values was the other option I considered. I choose the ENY because
1. I didn't belive the Perk would be a strong enough force.
2. It effects lesser pilots more then better pilots.
And also the current system is choosen. It will not be removed until we have a good idea how well it works. It can not be evalutated over days or even weeks.
So I would apreciate all the whines and counter slams to be droped. What I would be intrested in is small modifications needed to ENY values or the settings of when and how it kicks in.
HiTech
Several questions...
Why is this even necessary?
Why doesn't the three country model work?
Why do we now institute something deliberately designed to encourage country switching and numbers balancing when one of the major objectives of the game play model is arena reset and associated perks. (which is usually only possible with superior numbers)
Finally.... why do paying customers have to come to the BBS to sort thru large numbers of posts to find out about major issues and impending changes? Did AH HTC suddenly lose our email addresses.... mailing addresses.... the ability to put a pop survey on arena entrance?
I know they can sure put up a notice about the coming CON.... or find my billing address with no problems. But when they want to work thru arena issues or inform people of impending changes... suddenly I have to spend several hours researching things.
Lastly, why does everyone have to just quietly accept what ever method or "fix" is foisted upon them and be good little team players and try and make a certain selected fix work? If the product smells bad they shouldn't be helping find the right aftershave.. they should call a skunk a skunk.
-
Originally posted by simshell
i think this should be put in BUT
reset the perks of everplayer in the game
only way it could work to full effect
I have always thought this should happen each camp. Reseting the perks each camp should work out to something of a volentary(sp) rolling planset. That is to say later planes would come out as tour progresses with a bunch burned up in the last days before they are lost to monthly tour rotation.
-
Originally posted by Zanth
I have always thought this should happen each camp. Reseting the perks each camp should work out to something of a volentary(sp) rolling planset. That is to say later planes would come out as tour progresses with a bunch burned up in the last days before they are lost to monthly tour rotation.
I have always favored a rolling plane set.....
Perks required for every plane......
etc.
The counter argument was it favored better pilots or pilots with more time to fly and it would limit the rides or fun of other flyers.
Then we come out with a measure that limits the rides available to players to fix a problem that the three country model is quite capable of handling if the flyers would just use the model.