Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Chairboy on August 14, 2004, 01:46:00 AM
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http://www.thestate.com/mld/state/news/opinion/9378079.htm
After Wiccan woman wins case to not be discriminated against in town meetings, her cat is gutted and killed, her house vandalized, and snubbed her from the community... all in the name of Jesus.
Do the religious types here find this acceptable? Or do you condemn this?
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Go to bed.
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Originally posted by Nash
Go to bed.
Is that a vote for 'I condemn' or 'I agree w/ them'?
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NO!
Just the same as most people of faith dont condone murder of abortion doctors.
These people got it all wrong. To say that living in christ is bad because of these people is just ignorant.
CMon use your brain.....just cause a couple people in the south are racist doesnt make all southerners rascist.
Just cause almost every black rapper on the air today talks about drugs crime and rape doesnt mean all black people are like that.
GO TO BED!
EDIT:
but it does go to show we are all slaves to freedom. ONE person gets Offended and everyone has to adjust to her.....but it doenst justify killing her cat ect.
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Its really sad that some people have to get in a roe over someone with different beliefs ...
but then theres always that "My god can beat up your god " and if you dont like it I'll beat you up stupid type of mentality thing.
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The Great Falls Council, Motz wrote, remains free to engage in nonsectarian invocations prior to its meetings. “The opportunity to do so may provide a source of strength to believers, and a time of quiet reflection for all. This opportunity does not, however, provide the town council, or any other legislative body, license to advance its own religious views in preference to all others, as the town council did here.”
^ Agreed. However, I'd rather see no invocation period. Want a source of strength? Manually invoke yourself prior to the town meeting.
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We've just had a serial rapist who's serving a life term in prison win $10 million on the lottery - obviously God was thinking of other things when he let that one slip throught the net....
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WOW another make fun of religion thread. Who would have thought!
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Originally posted by Chairboy
[all in the name of Jesus.
Do the religious types here find this acceptable? Or do you condemn this?
Obvious troll Chairboy. You already know the answer.
Heres a question for you. Are you not in the least bit concerned
about the afterlife? Are you SO smug in your disbelief that if you die tonight you will be fine? I applaud your courage if you answer
No, but I would still have to question your intellegence.
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Originally posted by X2Lee
Obvious troll Chairboy. You already know the answer.
Heres a question for you. Are you not in the least bit concerned
about the afterlife? Are you SO smug in your disbelief that if you die tonight you will be fine? I applaud your courage if you answer
No, but I would still have to question your intellegence.
Actually, I'm not trolling at all. I'm really curious if the religious types in this community agree with the actions of a small group of christians or not.
I know that their actions are NOT typical of the larger group, but I also know that any group of extremists often represents the will of many of the others, even if the larger group is unwilling to actually take the action.
Regularilly I read on this group messages where people blame the entire Muslim faith for the actions of their extremists, so your unwillingness (as a group) to apply the same standard to Christians seems puzzling.
Out of the seven people who have responded so far, Gunslinger is the ONLY person to say that he condemns their actions. I think that's an interesting ratio.
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have yu completly recovered from your surgery now Chairboy? :)
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Originally posted by Chairboy
http://www.thestate.com/mld/state/news/opinion/9378079.htm
After Wiccan woman wins case to not be discriminated against in town meetings, her cat is gutted and killed, her house vandalized, and snubbed her from the community... all in the name of Jesus.
Do the religious types here find this acceptable? Or do you condemn this?
you are in serious need of a life.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Actually, I'm not trolling at all.
Out of the seven people who have responded so far, Gunslinger is the ONLY person to say that he condemns their actions. I think that's an interesting ratio.
Well I condemn it too as I think 100% of real christians do
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It kind of illustrates the whole prayer in school thing pretty well. People say, nobody is making you pray. But obviously, there are plenty of areas where if you "don't get with the program" the community will make you pay a price.
Simple question to all the nay sayers here.
What if the start of your morning of employment involved kneeling and praying to allah. What if you'r choice in not doing that resulted in unequal treatment. What if that was the case for your children at school and they decide to convert and go with the majority because it makes life easier?
It's real easy to dismiss this as a troll if you are part of the majority religion, and the status quo being enforced is the same as your beliefs. Frankly, I think it accurately illustrates the core issues very well.
Charon
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oh and before you perry mason me id say im an atheist.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Actually, I'm not trolling at all. I'm really curious if the religious types in this community agree with the actions of a small group of christians or not.
I know that their actions are NOT typical of the larger group, but I also know that any group of extremists often represents the will of many of the others, even if the larger group is unwilling to actually take the action.
Regularilly I read on this group messages where people blame the entire Muslim faith for the actions of their extremists, so your unwillingness (as a group) to apply the same standard to Christians seems puzzling.
Out of the seven people who have responded so far, Gunslinger is the ONLY person to say that he condemns their actions. I think that's an interesting ratio.
funny you should say this. i dont see you getting on the case of muslim leaders in us for not condemning the brutal acts of the extremists worldwide even though theyve had plenty of opportunity to do so. i guess this just shows your bias.
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" and upon entering Heaven I was brought to an edge of bushes by 2 Angels... They parted the first set of bushes and behold hundreds upon millions were there. Eating, singing and having a great time..and I asked "Who are they?" The 1st Angel said "These are the Protestants, Methodist and Baptist."
The 2nd Angel parted another set of bushes and again there were hundreds upon millions there. Eating, singing and having a great time. Again I asked "Who are they?" and the 2nd Angel replied "These are the Catholics, Lutherans and Pentecost."
Then both Angels parted the last bush and behold there were hundreds upon millions there argueing, bickering, fighting about what was right and what was wrong with Heaven. And as I was about to ask both Angels they looked upon me sternly and said....
"Shhhhh... These are the Democrats. They think they are the only ones here."
:rofl
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Originally posted by Chairboy
http://www.thestate.com/mld/state/news/opinion/9378079.htm
After Wiccan woman wins case to not be discriminated against in town meetings, her cat is gutted and killed, her house vandalized, and snubbed her from the community... all in the name of Jesus.
Do the religious types here find this acceptable? Or do you condemn this?
also interesting is your assumption that christians were ones who kill cat and vandalize her car and home. i guess innocent until proven guilty only apply if you are muslim on terror watch list. for all we know vandals are stupid teenagers getting fired up over rumor. or could be the likes of chairboy doing something to discredit religous group thru dishonorable activity.
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Originally posted by anonymous
funny you should say this. i dont see you getting on the case of muslim leaders in us for not condemning the brutal acts of the extremists worldwide even though theyve had plenty of opportunity to do so. i guess this just shows your bias.
Actually, I'm very critical of muslim leaders who fail to condemn the islamists. Why do you think I'm not? I've posted about that before. Or did you just take a blind shot hoping it would stick?
I have no patience for hypocrasy from Christians, Muslims, Jewish, Hindu, etc. All of these religions and more do terrible things.
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Originally posted by anonymous
also interesting is your assumption that christians were ones who kill cat and vandalize her car and home. i guess innocent until proven guilty only apply if you are muslim on terror watch list. for all we know vandals are stupid teenagers getting fired up over rumor. or could be the likes of chairboy doing something to discredit religous group thru dishonorable activity.
So... you're saying that Atheist Extremists are waging a quiet war on all fronts against the peace loving Christians & Muslims? C'mon, I've heard plenty of crazy conspiracy theories, now you're adding:
Because of the well known tolerance all christians have for everyone, it must be an atheist squad that has hurt this woman.
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So yer an Atheist?
LOL Man are you gonna be in for a BIG surprise!!!
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by AWMac
So yer an Atheist?
LOL Man are you gonna be in for a BIG surprise!!!
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Of course, of course, I'm going to hell, etc etc etc.
:rolleyes:
Take a quick break from your condescension to note that I'm not criticizing your religion or calling into question your beliefs, my beef is with people who cloak themselves in righteousness and use that to rationalize hatred or secretly cheer on others who do their 'dirty work'.
I'm glad I could give you the opportunity for that cheap shot, hope ya feel better. I'll keep from criticizing your religious beliefs because I respect your right to have them, I'd like to get the same if possible.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
So... you're saying that Atheist Extremists are waging a quiet war on all fronts against the peace loving Christians & Muslims? C'mon, I've heard plenty of crazy conspiracy theories, now you're adding:
Because of the well known tolerance all christians have for everyone, it must be an atheist squad that has hurt this woman.
so you know it was christians that did it just because you know and were supposed to believe you. alrighty then.
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Originally posted by AWMac
So yer an Atheist?
LOL Man are you gonna be in for a BIG surprise!!!
:rofl :rofl :rofl
im an atheist. do i go to hell if im an atheist but did more to help my fellow man than a self proclaimed christian?
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well chairboy when we go to hell together well at least be able to ask the devil who killed the ladys cat and truck. a beer and a shot is the bet and my claim it was a bunch of dumb kids all under the age of sixteen. lay down you card fast i think weve only got a few decades before we find out the real truth. :)
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Actually, I'm very critical of muslim leaders who fail to condemn the islamists. Why do you think I'm not? I've posted about that before. Or did you just take a blind shot hoping it would stick?
I have no patience for hypocrasy from Christians, Muslims, Jewish, Hindu, etc. All of these religions and more do terrible things.
didnt look to see if you posted it. my mistake.
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Originally posted by anonymous
im an atheist. do i go to hell if im an atheist but did more to help my fellow man than a self proclaimed christian?
Nope, you just keep hanging around. Kinda like the Bhudhist until you reach Nirvana...."Enlightenment".
But hey who knows?
I always liked the Song "Imagine" by John Lennon.
Not knocking Atheist... do your thing.
Seen a few hit bad in Grenada and Panama and in tunnels...slowly dieing..calling out for Mom...then lastly God... funny huh? 11th Hour stuff.
But I regress, I am me and you are you. Happy Trails.
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(http://perso.efrei.fr/~gomez/troll.jpg)
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Funny graphic, Gunslinger, but I ain't trolling.
All I'm asking is if people approve or not of what was done to the woman in the article. It doesn't seem like that difficult of a question to answer, but for some reason, nobody is.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Funny graphic, Gunslinger, but I ain't trolling.
All I'm asking is if people approve or not of what was done to the woman in the article. It doesn't seem like that difficult of a question to answer, but for some reason, nobody is.
you stated earlier that all that watermelon was done to that lady all in the name of jesus.
I dont remember reading that. YOu call them people christians.....well they are not.
I think common sense prevails here, anyone who knows anything about Jesus or his teachings would know he would not condone this type of behavior......these people are not christians.
OTOH,
I also dont approve of one person moving into town and forcing change on the etire town. The city council could have been a little more flexible on this matter.
The reason I think you are trolling here is because you are specifically picking on christians with no real reason. I could post an article about a couple of black guys beating somone else up and ask are all black people like this....do you condone this? And the thread would be just as gay!
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I agree with Gunslinger....
Chairboy yer bait stinks and it's a half~assed troll.
So what do you do for a living?
LOL
Keep your night job.
:rofl
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Give it some time - I'm sure it will come to light that Kerry had something to do with it:rolleyes:
Seriously, the incident has more to do with mob mentality than religion. Thats why I don't let my cats near this OC :D
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Since you're convinced I'm trolling, can you suggest a better way to ask whether or not the extremists that did that stuff should be condemned? Everybody questions my motives, but I still want an answer.
Maybe one of you 'god fearing' types could figure out a way to get this information? Or are you calling me a troll because you think that honest answers from the group would be 'unpopular'? Before I posted this, I figured there might be some interesting conversation, but that in the end, everyone would agree that the specific methods used were inappropriate.
Now, I wonder. Is it possible that the silent majority of Christians approve of what happened to her because y'all should 'not suffer a witch to live'? Do you feel that, in fact, that she's getting exactly what she deserves and that this is just a taste in anticipation of the fiery future that lay before her?
ONE person has said they disagree with what the extremists did to her. ONE SINGLE PERSON. Holy crap, are you all really that hateful that you think killing her cat and vandalizing her house is GOOD?
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Originally posted by Chairboy
http://www.thestate.com/mld/state/news/opinion/9378079.htm
After Wiccan woman wins case to not be discriminated against in town meetings, her cat is gutted and killed, her house vandalized, and snubbed her from the community... all in the name of Jesus.
Do the religious types here find this acceptable? Or do you condemn this?
Doing that, in the name of anything, God, Christianity, Allah, King, Country, etc. Is not acceptable in my mind... Especially the cat being gutted... :mad:
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I'm going to assume your genuine in your question and give you the same type of answer.
I condemn it, any Christian I know would as well.
however there are many people who identify themselves as Christians who do it mainly to be part of the group with people they know. they have little or no knowledge about Christianity and they don't seem to let what they do know interfere with their actions. some of these people have made it to very high office in various churches and gov'ts.
these people are a huge threat to our religion, maybe one of the biggest. they are by far the minority. but since people who actually read the Bible and let the principles and commandments outlined there to be a major guiding force in their lives are fairly boring by the standards of todays media (where the only stories that seem to make the news are centered around gossip, pornography or violence), the nut-jobs who are just looking for any excuse to lash out at anybody different and think that by saying they are doing this evil in Gods name will excuse it or somehow make it right, get a lot more press time. the end result is that for many people this is the only exposure they have to Christianity and it leaves them with the impression that all Christians are irrational-zealot-hicks, it's no wonder they roll their eyes and close their ears when the subject of salvation comes up.
as Christians we need to condemn these people loudly and often, the news media constantly tells people these are Christians so it takes a lot of voices to even make a dent against that.
we need to let non-Christians, or prospective Christians know that these people don't represent us.
if you are a Christian and support these types of actions or think that somehow the end justifies the means, read your Bible again. and when you're done do it again, repeat as many times as necessary until you figure it out.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Since you're convinced I'm trolling, can you suggest a better way to ask whether or not the extremists that did that stuff should be condemned? Everybody questions my motives, but I still want an answer.
Maybe one of you 'god fearing' types could figure out a way to get this information? Or are you calling me a troll because you think that honest answers from the group would be 'unpopular'? Before I posted this, I figured there might be some interesting conversation, but that in the end, everyone would agree that the specific methods used were inappropriate.
Now, I wonder. Is it possible that the silent majority of Christians approve of what happened to her because y'all should 'not suffer a witch to live'? Do you feel that, in fact, that she's getting exactly what she deserves and that this is just a taste in anticipation of the fiery future that lay before her?
ONE person has said they disagree with what the extremists did to her. ONE SINGLE PERSON. Holy crap, are you all really that hateful that you think killing her cat and vandalizing her house is GOOD?
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Since you're convinced I'm trolling, can you suggest a better way to ask whether or not the extremists that did that stuff should be condemned? Everybody questions my motives, but I still want an answer.
Maybe one of you 'god fearing' types could figure out a way to get this information? Or are you calling me a troll because you think that honest answers from the group would be 'unpopular'? Before I posted this, I figured there might be some interesting conversation, but that in the end, everyone would agree that the specific methods used were inappropriate.
Now, I wonder. Is it possible that the silent majority of Christians approve of what happened to her because y'all should 'not suffer a witch to live'? Do you feel that, in fact, that she's getting exactly what she deserves and that this is just a taste in anticipation of the fiery future that lay before her?
ONE person has said they disagree with what the extremists did to her. ONE SINGLE PERSON. Holy crap, are you all really that hateful that you think killing her cat and vandalizing her house is GOOD?
Let me tell you a story,
about 5 years ago I got turned off of faith completly. It was around halloween and a girl I was seeing invited me to a church haunted house. I said sure sounds like a good time and went with her.
Well this "church" was nothing but pure evil. As we go herded into the main area we were told to sit down and the doors were locked behind us. OK i'm a little scared.
than a movie projector started playing. My freaked out level went to all new highs when they started showing pictures of aborted fetuses and abortion instruction videos.
After about 10 seconds I had enough and wanted out. Of course they locked the door behind us so I preceded to try and break it down along with a few others. They threatend to call the police on me, and I threatend to call the fire marshal (he was a drinking buddy of mine and owed me a favor)
To make a long story short they let us go and my GF was mad so I dumped her on the spot.
I didnt go to church for a couple of years after that and was completly turned off by religion untill I met a pastor who set me strait.
These people, while having good intentions, have VERY CHITTY methods of getting their point accross and do more harm than good. This new pastor taught me that christ is in fact about love, not hate. You can gauff all you want but its true.
Love thy sinner hate thy sin. That is one of christ's biggest messages and these exrtemests just don't get the point.
You religion haters cant hate us all you want and it does not bother me. When you say my faith as a whole is wrong for the mis-deeds of the few, I will allways step in and condem them and correct you.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Since you're convinced I'm trolling, can you suggest a better way to ask whether or not the extremists that did that stuff should be condemned? Everybody questions my motives, but I still want an answer.
Maybe one of you 'god fearing' types could figure out a way to get this information? Or are you calling me a troll because you think that honest answers from the group would be 'unpopular'? Before I posted this, I figured there might be some interesting conversation, but that in the end, everyone would agree that the specific methods used were inappropriate.
Now, I wonder. Is it possible that the silent majority of Christians approve of what happened to her because y'all should 'not suffer a witch to live'? Do you feel that, in fact, that she's getting exactly what she deserves and that this is just a taste in anticipation of the fiery future that lay before her?
ONE person has said they disagree with what the extremists did to her. ONE SINGLE PERSON. Holy crap, are you all really that hateful that you think killing her cat and vandalizing her house is GOOD?
Opps you just made a mistake Chairboy.... GOD FEARING?.... first of all if you had not a lil sense of belief you'd not know the term "God FEARING" and 1st of all I don't fear GOD... I am at Peace... I just hang around to see what the Atheists are doing...I could die a 3rd time tomorrow and I'd welcome the Peace.
Been there before, no T~Shirts, just scares ...external/internal...
Sooo you lil troll before you start the "Religion" question do a lil research... it won't make you look soooo phucggin stoopid!
Not to late for you to get a Fuggin Life!
Happy Trails...
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Chairboy..........trolling...
Come on guys wake up ,chairboy is not trolling....
Except for the cat, I do not condem what was done.Where in the constitution does it say, someone can come into a town of 2400 people, that believe in any one religion, get upset by them invoking any deity they want,espectually one the country was founded on.Get the courts to turn the town upside down and believe many are not going to retaliate.
How does one person have that right? If she didnt like how the town prayed, She could start her own town . Isnt that how the pilgrims did it ? Isnt that how the mormans did it.?
What ever they did, they did it in the name of FREEDOM ,not in the name of God. After all isnt that what our forefathers did? Most of them were christians, and yet in the name of freedom they particapated in the boston tea party, and started a war.
Many millions of christians have woke up to what is goin on,and sooner or later the rest will.Atheist and others think you can sholve your religion down our throats,but you are wrong and your day is coming ,as sure as the sun rises it is. In history it always has it will here to.
Yes choirboy you can be the best person the world has ever seen, and If you do not ask forgiveness for your sins, and realize you are made from dirt, you will go to hell.
You will face the God that has already said....Your works are as filthy rags. Now far as I am concerned I hope you never change,ya I know most of my brothers and sisters will disagree,never the less dont change.
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Gunslinger, Capt Apathy, & Demaw, thanks for your responses. I was getting a bit worried there. I think you're right, that those people did not represent Christianity as a whole, and thanks for taking the time to post. As an atheist surrounded by religious folk, it gets a little intimidating sometimes and seems like people are willing to let the ends justify the means, that's why I wanted this reality check.
For the rest of you that kept telling me I'm trolling, bug off. Your complacency and unwillingness or inability to identify evil is disgusting. If you're really so blind that you can't tell when someone is making a heartfelt plea that grows from sincere concern and fear that mob mentality can grow unchecked, then I hope sincerely that you can change before you're in a situation where loved ones will suffer because of your inaction.
Civilization is only as strong as the first person to say 'now hold on a minute, that's not right'.
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As an atheist surrounded by religious folk, it gets a little intimidating sometimes and seems like people are willing to let the ends justify the means, that's why I wanted this reality check
Now put yourself in our shoes.
As a christian surrounded by athiests telling me my faith is a farce and I am of weak mind for beleiving in the divinity, it gets me mad.
When a small group of people get's "offended" and everyone must suffer and change thier way of life in order not to "offend" that gets me mad.
I am tolerent of non-religious people even when they are becoming ever more intolerent of me.
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im atheist been around many who are deeply religous and have nothing but good to say about them. awmac i hear you about the 11th hour deal i guess from experience im just more of the "make sure the ******* that shot me dont get away everyone but the corpsman better be lookin for him!" type. was raised with religion myself just not compatable anymore. maybe im one quarter agnostic three quarters atheist all i can say is if there is someone or something after the big ride ive got a hell of a list of questions for him or it before im judged. :)
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oh and for gunslinger and awmac when i say atheist i have no problem sayin amen after other peoples prayers or going to church with buddies family if im staying with them and whatnot. religion and practices dont offend me in the least.
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When a small group of people get's "offended" and everyone must suffer and change thier way of life in order not to "offend" that gets me mad.
Some people take their spirituality seriously. I'm agnostic. It's something I have put a lot of though and meditation into. It’s something I take very seriously. I think it's disrespectful to force my beliefs on others, but at the same time I feel it is disrespectful to my beliefs and to another's religion to "go along with it" without having those personal beliefs.
She was not in a private setting. When I go to NASCAR there is an invocation where Jesus is named. My wife (who is Jewish) and I go along with it silently because we have a right not to be there (not really true since she's there for work...but anyway). In a church or temple I go along with it silently and respectfully because I have a right not to attend and chose otherwise. But, at public meeting, where I have the same rights as any 200 other citizens it is different. I'll be dammed If I'll let any mob force me to give up those rights anymore than you would say a prayer to the moon goddess before you could participate in a public meeting.
It sounds like she tried to be accomodating:
Wynne tried to show respect, but she grew increasingly uncomfortable. She asked Mayor Henry Clayton Starnes for a nonsectarian invocation. He refused. She suggested a rotation of local ministers. No way.
But, even when she took the entire effort on herself to accommodate the majority that wasn't good enough:
Once she stayed outside the council’s meeting room until the prayer ended. She was told she had waived her scheduled opportunity to speak. A councilman asked for a public hearing on her protests and her proposed alternatives. A hundred townspeople turned out to support the status quo. Several Christian ministers filed statements defending the council’s policy. Cries were heard of “Hallelujah!” The mayor told Wynne: “This is the way we’ve always done things, and we’re not going to change.”
You guys with the Christian persecution complex should run the numbers.
2002
Christian 82%
Jewish 1%
Muslim 1%
Other non-Christian 1%
Atheist 1%
Agnostic 2%
Something else (SPECIFY) 2%
No preference 10%
Don't know/Refused 1%
Most of those radical atheists, etc. are just trying to retain the right to not be a Christian if they so choose. Or to raise their children in an atmosphere free of prostelyzing, whether it overt or covert in nature.
Charon
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I am a Christian.
While Great Falls chews on its defeat, the plaintiff Wynne seeks surcease. Her home has been vandalized nine times. Hoodlums have killed her cat and hanged its gutted body. Someone put sand in the gas tank of her truck. Townspeople have ostracized her. Even so, she comes across over the telephone as the most cheerful Witch I ever met. My acquaintance is limited, to be sure, but in this one I stand on the lady’s side.
and I do not condon this kind of action. And I don't know of any "reasonable" person who would. Christian or not.
Gunslinger, good story. Sorry to hear that happened to you. It does not take many to give Christians a bad name. Your right on, good intention, but they were WAY OFF on how to go about it.
As for Chairboy trolling....I don't know him. The answer should have been obvious, IMHO. Maybe he is just taking a poke and wanted to see what he could stir up. ;) Yet, I sure have missed some pretty obvious answers in my life.
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Christian 82%
?
LOL Wish that was true. ;) I think what you would consider a Christian and what I would, are on very different levels.
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those %'s must include a lot of people that are just called Christian because their parents are, or it's just assumed because they don't openly say they believe anything else.
I'd say less than 20% of people I meet are Christians(including those who don't seem to let it effect their lifestyle), maybe 10% Buddhists, Mormon, Muslim, or other. the other 70% worship cash, power, their own whims and desires, or nothing at all.
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LOL Wish that was true. I think what you would consider a Christian and what I would, are on very different levels.
I agree. I have nothing but respect for honorable, respectful true people of faith, regardless of faith. However, I have spent enough time in the bible belt and elsewhere to feel that the "christians" in that town or at Gunslinger's halloween or that recently tried to "save" my Jewish mother-in-law in an ambush camoflaged as a social gathering can be more common than not (in certain regions). Then there was the family that took the son's Jewish friend out and had him baptized on the way to the mall a couple of years back.
Charon
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duplicate
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Originally posted by Charon
I can agree. I have nothing but respect for true people of faith, regardless of faith. However, I have spent enough time in the bible belt and elsewhere to feel that the "Christians" in that town or at Gunslinger's halloween or that recently tride to save my Jewish mother-in-law in an ambush camoflaged as a social gathering can be (in certain regions) more common than not. Or there was the family that took the son's Jewish frined out and had him baptized on the way to the mall a couple of years back.
Charon
unfortunately what you describe is very common. I avoided organized religion for most of my life for that very reason. I couldn't tolerate being surrounded by hypocrites at a time while I was supposed to be connecting to God.
I found it very prevalent when I lived in the mid-west. people are expected to attend church (at least in the small towns I lived in) and you faced a lot of suspicion and assumptions about your lifestyle and character if you didn't attend. when you actually met someone who actually let their faith guide their life it was very refreshing, but unfortunately not something that happened regularly. I saw men who where (at least from my dealings with them) morally bankrupt who attended church regularly, mostly for the business contacts, and women who were more interested in the fashion-show aspect of Sunday morning than the actual message.
I think this is the end result of trying to force religion on people, or legislate morality. in the end when you force people to attend church or even present the appearance of being Christian (whether through law or social pressure) you end up with people seeing apparent Christan's acting just like the faithless. it makes as all appear to be a big fraud.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
http://www.thestate.com/mld/state/news/opinion/9378079.htm
After Wiccan woman wins case to not be discriminated against in town meetings, her cat is gutted and killed, her house vandalized, and snubbed her from the community... all in the name of Jesus.
Do the religious types here find this acceptable? Or do you condemn this?
Are you on a crusade to convert the Christians, or what, here? I swear, man, you do this so often.
Someone does something unChristianlike in the name of Christ - it makes the news - you have a cow.
Someone does something unChristianlike in the name of pokemon - IF it makes the news - you still don't know about it.
BTW .... the answer to your question is the term "unChristianlike" (as well as a hint, in general). :D
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Originally posted by Charon
Some people take their spirituality seriously. I'm agnostic. It's something I have put a lot of though and meditation into. It’s something I take very seriously. I think it's disrespectful to force my beliefs on others, but at the same time I feel it is disrespectful to my beliefs and to another's religion to "go along with it" without having those personal beliefs.
She was not in a private setting. When I go to NASCAR there is an invocation where Jesus is named. My wife (who is Jewish) and I go along with it silently because we have a right not to be there (not really true since she's there for work...but anyway). In a church or temple I go along with it silently and respectfully because I have a right not to attend and chose otherwise. But, at public meeting, where I have the same rights as any 200 other citizens it is different. I'll be dammed If I'll let any mob force me to give up those rights anymore than you would say a prayer to the moon goddess before you could participate in a public meeting.
It sounds like she tried to be accomodating:
But, even when she took the entire effort on herself to accommodate the majority that wasn't good enough:
You guys with the Christian persecution complex should run the numbers.
2002
Christian 82%
Jewish 1%
Muslim 1%
Other non-Christian 1%
Atheist 1%
Agnostic 2%
Something else (SPECIFY) 2%
No preference 10%
Don't know/Refused 1%
Most of those radical atheists, etc. are just trying to retain the right to not be a Christian if they so choose. Or to raise their children in an atmosphere free of prostelyzing, whether it overt or covert in nature.
Charon
Hey I agree with you the town could have done more to accomidate here and they failed in that aspect.
But since when does anyone have the right not to be "offended" by religion or anything else. I dont remember reading that in the constitution or otherwise.
There's alot of things in this world that offends me and I just look away or ignore it. I dont have the right to have that person silenced because I dont like what thay are saying.
Even in a public or official environment. Yes you have the right to be their but if they wish to say a prayer who is anyone to tell them they cant.
Again the citiy should have done more to accomidate her but this is the will of the few opressing thier views on the ideals of the many and that is not right.
Christian persacution complex????? Try the secularist taking away all that is good from public eye.
Places no longer have easter egg hunts they have oval egg hunts. We cant take christmas/holiday break its now winter break. Even christmas trees in public places are being taken down in public places because they might "offend" a few people.
Even crosses on PRIVATE land but in public view have come under attack. A town or city that has a cross in its seal because historicaly the town was founded by a ministry are being sued by the ACLU because they might "offend" somone.
give me a break. People associate christians with the right and now they are instantly evil people. You can't tell me that there is not an ongoing persacution of christianity in America today.
As far as religion goes I do not have one. I do not beleive in organized religion because alot of it detracts from the true purpose in wich they gathered (to praise christ)
It all boils down to this:
"religion is an idea created by man in order to be closer to God,
Christ is man created by God in order to be closer to man."
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Originally posted by Chairboy
http://www.thestate.com/mld/state/news/opinion/9378079.htm
After Wiccan woman wins case to not be discriminated against in town meetings, her cat is gutted and killed, her house vandalized, and snubbed her from the community... all in the name of Jesus.
Do the religious types here find this acceptable? Or do you condemn this?
No Christian would commit that type of act. There are people who are "Christian" because it is a tradition. If you were to ask them questions and knew what to ask you would find that they were not Christian at all.
If a Black person commits a crime are all Black people criminals then? By your reasoning it must be so!!!
Irrespective of all that, why are you so concerned with any of this for? You've already expressed in other posts that You are an athiest and that we are weak and need a crutch!
Did you purchase your asbestos panties yet just in case I'm correct in placing my faith in the inerrant word of God and you find yourself on the other side of death without an advocate to speak on your behalf? Now is the time to choose.
Pathetic troll BTW.
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Originally posted by storch
If a Black person commits a crime are all Black people criminals then? By your reasoning it must be so!!!
Actually, I'm asking a question, not making a conclusion.
Originally posted by storch
Irrespective of all that, why are you so concerned with any of this for? You've already expressed in other posts that You are an athiest and that we are weak and need a crutch!
I'm concerned about this because as a non-Christian, I'm afraid that I'll be a future victim of this type of retribution.
Originally posted by storch
Did you purchase your asbestos panties yet just in case I'm correct in placing my faith in the inerrant word of God and you find yourself on the other side of death without an advocate to speak on your behalf? Now is the time to choose.
I respect your right to live as a Christian, and I don't try to convert you. Your faith brings you comfort, just as mine brings it to me. Can you consider a world where you don't have to actively try and convert others? I can, and it's nice.
Originally posted by storch
Pathetic troll BTW.
Please learn to distinguish between someone who is trolling versus someone like me who, if I take this news at face value, is surrounded by people that so hate me, the thin facade of civility is inches away from physical attacks, torture, and mob violence.
I asked if the Christians felt that action was appropriate, and a few people here came out and expressed their opinion that it was not. I'm reassured that the people in the article are not representative of Christians, and I thanked others for replying. I can tell you didn't take a moment to review the post before posting, it's unfortunate.
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This is something....
Gees Ive seen alot in this thread. Those that may or may not be atheist talk about un christian like, and they have no idea what they are talking about. What is un christian like?
Ive seen those that may or may not be christians, say oh I agree with you ,real christians dont act that way, trying to be all inclusive, ah really how do real christians act.?
There are those that have written about spending time in the bible belt, and therefore have all knowledge of all things christian.
Crying when he thinks his Jewish mother in law was ambushed ,yet gave no details so we can make up our own mind.But of course, forgets just who are the largest supporters of Isreal today. Btw when was the last time your wife, was invited by the prime minister and other elected officals of Isreal to Isreal. A great many christian preachers I know you dont like, and whole towns like that town have, and have gone. Ya your right Isreal is stupid and no longer looks at christians as you do.
There are those that have said they couldnt connect to God, because of all the hipocrites around them. Whoa what an ego... Reminds me of a man that intered a temple to worship in Jesus day. In his heart he looked around and said ,thank God I am not like these, I fast and pray every day, I give to the poor and needy,and I follow all the commandments, while these come only on the sabbath and do nothing I do. Jesus knowing what was in his heart said to him , you hipocrite this day your soul will be required of you.
Believe it or not there is still room in heaven for some more hipocrites, even a hipocrite as bad as me.
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anonymous It all comes down to who knows? No one does. We all try to find that inner peace that will carry us along in life.
Hope you didn't think I was knocking on you.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Actually, I'm asking a question, not making a conclusion.
I'm concerned about this because as a non-Christian, I'm afraid that I'll be a future victim of this type of retribution.
Well then how many times do you need to be reassured? Weekly? Alzheimer's?
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Originally posted by storch
Well then how many times do you need to be reassured? Weekly? Alzheimer's?
There's really no need to be uncivil.
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Originally posted by demaw1
Ive seen those that may or may not be christians, say oh I agree with you ,real christians dont act that way, trying to be all inclusive, ah really how do real christians act.?
WWJD
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Originally posted by Chairboy
I'm concerned about this because as a non-Christian, I'm afraid that I'll be a future victim of this type of retribution.
Nonsense. I'm not much of a christian and there aint no lynch mob after me. Calm down.
This woman got in trouble because she, an outsider, tried to force her own way on a traditional close knit stubborn small town community, in other words a communty very unlikely to accept change. The christianity and witch angle just made strory more secksie...
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Originally posted by Chairboy
There's really no need to be uncivil.
That was not a rhetorical question there pound cake and doing a dem like dainty skip won't help much. sooooooo which is it?
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Originally posted by Chairboy
I'm concerned about this because as a non-Christian, I'm afraid that I'll be a future victim of this type of retribution.
I respect your right to live as a Christian, and I don't try to convert you. Your faith brings you comfort, just as mine brings it to me. Can you consider a world where you don't have to actively try and convert others? I can, and it's nice.
1: I seriously doubt Christians are out to get you.
2: Odd. Can you go for a month without looking for some example in the news to post here asking Christians in general why they're so evil?
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Nonsense. I'm not much of a christian and there aint no lynch mob after me. Calm down.
GRUNHERZ you heathen! Go to church!
:p
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Originally posted by daddog
GRUNHERZ you heathen! Go to church!
:p
Where is Fluffy? Fluffy!!! Has anyone seen Fluffy?
Missing cat! REWARD!!
(http://www.glossynews.com/artman/uploads/drunk-cat.jpg)
(http://www.squizzle.com/pictures/drunk%20cat.jpg)
Please help bring Fluffy back home.
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http://www.ccgr.org/article_read.asp?id=584
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Now put yourself in our shoes.
As a christian surrounded by athiests telling me my faith is a farce and I am of weak mind for beleiving in the divinity, it gets me mad.
SNIP
If you are mad, you are doubting, if you are doubting, you've made a mistake but can't figure out what, which leaves the 2 possibilities:
you're wrong, or you're not sure what you know.
Either way, it's pretty foolproof, because you only believe what you believe, and if you don't there is always the safety net that is faith, which saves you from anything and everything:
Faith is believing even when you see proof of the contrary; there's an exact proverb or verse on this, I don't remember it word for word.
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Originally posted by moot
If you are mad, you are doubting, if you are doubting, you've made a mistake but can't figure out what, which leaves the 2 possibilities:
you're wrong, or you're not sure what you know.
Either way, it's pretty foolproof, because you only believe what you believe, and if you don't there is always the safety net that is faith, which saves you from anything and everything:
Faith is believing even when you see proof of the contrary; there's an exact proverb or verse on this, I don't remember it word for word.
I was referring more to the religious persicution that happens in this country today.
I get mad because my civil rights are infringed apon.
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ok.
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There are those that have written about spending time in the bible belt, and therefore have all knowledge of all things christian.
Crying when he thinks his Jewish mother in law was ambushed ,yet gave no details so we can make up our own mind.But of course, forgets just who are the largest supporters of Isreal today. Btw when was the last time your wife, was invited by the prime minister and other elected officals of Isreal to Isreal. A great many christian preachers I know you dont like, and whole towns like that town have, and have gone. Ya your right Isreal is stupid and no longer looks at christians as you do.
demaw1
Do you have anything of value to add to these discussions?
Charon
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Originally posted by moot
If you are mad, you are doubting, if you are doubting, you've made a mistake but can't figure out what, which leaves the 2 possibilities:
you're wrong, or you're not sure what you know.
Either way, it's pretty foolproof, because you only believe what you believe, and if you don't there is always the safety net that is faith, which saves you from anything and everything:
Faith is believing even when you see proof of the contrary; there's an exact proverb or verse on this, I don't remember it word for word.
Your faith must be mountainous then. Proof to the contrary indeed.
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WWJD [/QUOTE]
He'd throttle down to dammm near a stall, drop landing gear to further slow down, fake a left bank... nose up, gear up, throttle up, Immellmann and tattattattatta.... yer smoked!
:aok
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(http://www.squizzle.com/pictures/drunk%20cat.jpg)
:rofl
Yeah Fluffy!!!
*In my best Tommy Chong impression..*
" I partied with that Cat man..."
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when did the word "Christian" become a bad word to so many?
What General Weygand has called the Battle of France is over. The Battle of Britain is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization. Upon it depends our own British life, and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire. The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us. Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this Island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was their finest hour."
Winston Churchill
House of Commons, June18th 1940
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Originally posted by Eagler
when did the word "Christian" become a bad word to so many?
It isn't. More interesting question: when did the word "****" become a bad word to so many?
Originally posted by Eagler
What General Weygand has called the Battle of France is over. The Battle of Britain is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization.
Politicians talk a lot. ;) Hitler: "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter." Obviously, that does not mean Christians are evil--in fact it does not even mean Hitler is a Christian. It means politicians talk a lot. Hitler was evil because he was evil. The Brits were good becuase they were good.
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>>when did the word "Christian" become a bad word to so many? <<
Oddly enough, the answer lies in your quote.
>>Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization.<<
Although, I believe Churchill's motives to be patriotic, the rhetoric of claiming that God is on one's side, has perverted religion. Its also incredibly arrogant to assume one knows God's plan. I don't think there is such a thing as a holy war, as war is a tool of man.
I think spiritualism/salvation/enlightenment is an extremely personal journey away from materialism. I find those who wish to hurry you along or force you down their path, are more interested in possessing you than your personal salvation.
If you are Christian, you believe God as already taken the appropriate measures to ensure your salvation. There is NOTHING man can do to improve it.
So when people try to whip you into a frenzy that you have to fight a certain way, vote a certain way, or do ANYTHING other than develope your personal relationship with God, they're perverting religion. Its an attempt to skew the perspective to mob mentality. Although its very helpful in war (where one breaks material things), it seems contradictory to spiritualism (where one attempts to *divorce* themself from material things).
The short answer is Christianty became a bad word when it was perverted, just as other religions have been perverted for power (political, military, economic etc.).
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
I think spiritualism/salvation/enlightenment is an extremely personal journey away from materialism. I find those who wish to hurry you along or force you down their path, are more interested in possessing you than your personal salvation.
True in the case of the powerful, I think, but not the weak. For example, I'd say a guy like Bin Laden falls into this category, but a peon kid terrorist taught at one of those schools on the Pak border does not.
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Originally posted by phookat
It isn't. More interesting question: when did the word "****" become a bad word to so many?
Politicians talk a lot. ;) Hitler: "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter." Obviously, that does not mean Christians are evil--in fact it does not even mean Hitler is a Christian. It means politicians talk a lot. Hitler was evil because he was evil. The Brits were good becuase they were good.
Really???? Let's poll the Zulus at Rourke's Drift!
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Originally posted by storch
Really???? Let's poll the Zulus at Rourke's Drift!
I was referring to one specific conflict. Obviously I am not trying to imply that all Brits are "good" all the time. Take the point, don't go off on tangents.
The point remains that neither "All Christians are Evil" nor "All Christians are Good" is a true statement.
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Charon....value
..I have something of value to add, only to those that do not believe, they know all about a subject by living next door to said subject. Nevertheless I did not mean any disrespect.
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Chairboy--
Do you really think that the people who agree with such actions would have the guts to publicly admit it?
J_A_B
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Originally posted by phookat
I was referring to one specific conflict. Obviously I am not trying to imply that all Brits are "good" all the time. Take the point, don't go off on tangents.
The point remains that neither "All Christians are Evil" nor "All Christians are Good" is a true statement.
Hitler was evil and the Brits were good huh. Both Hitler and the Brits were both good and evil actually we can boil it down further. There are no good humans. no, not even one.
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Originally posted by Eagler
when did the word "Christian" become a bad word to so many?
doubt if you could put a date on it, but here are a couple of the things that I believe are at the root of our problem.
when many of our members, and leaders in particular, give blind support of people who say they are Christian, even if the actions these people take, the goals these actions seem to be leading to, and the things they actually support (through action, not lip service) aren't anything close to the teachings our religion is built upon.
when the idea that we could use violence, legislation, and other forms of coercion to force people to be moral or 'good people'. all we do is teach them that it's ok to force others to conform to your will.
basically the whole idea that the end justifies the means. it doesn't. you simply cannot lower the amount of evil in the world while adding to it with your own evil acts. this kind of thinking is nothing more than childish justification of our own desire to do evil but being to weak to just admit it.
it's much easier to continue lying to yourself and telling yourself that the evil you do is in the name of God. it's a cop-out, a way of hiding your own evil from yourself so you can avoid the effort and pain involved in removing or suppressing it from your life.
very convenient overall, the best of both worlds. you can lash out and do all the evil of those you hate, but as long as you never admit to yourself that the evil is there it doesn't get in the way of those wonderful feelings of self-righteousness.
these types of 'Christians' stand out, non-Christians see them and add the impression to their picture of Christians as a whole. all Christians don't act this way, but it doesn't take many for us all to be painted with that brush.
So, what do we do about it?
deal with these types? tell them they need to change their ways or stop calling themselves Christian? some sort of punishment for these offenses? political, social, or economic pressure?
if we do any of those than even if we stop them we haven't helped the problem, we've just replaced them in their mission.
the answer seems simple to me but it seems to escape the majority of Christians I know, so maybe I've got it wrong. but my solution would be to take instruction from our own scriptures.
you teach people to be compassionate by being compassionate.
you teach people to be honorable by being honorable.
you teach people to be kind by being kind.
you teach people to be faithful by being faithful.
you teach people respect by being respectable.
you teach people to be decency by being decent.
nowhere in the Gospel have I read a passage where Jesus responded to the evil done to him, or the evil in the world in general by raising an army and laying waste to a nation. nor have I read a single line where he ordered, recommended, or blessed any man to take on such a mission.
we are charged to overpower this world in the name of God. we are told specifically how to do it. we are to set an example. we are to try to live our lives as a positive force, to draw contentment, courage and determination from our relationship with God. we are to use that courage and determination to stand up to evil, to tell it it has no place to live in our hearts.
or to sum it up- you should make every effort to think before you act, and when you do try to consider 'What Would Jesus Do', and try to act accordingly. Don't cheer on or give praise or support to people who encourage behavior that isn't compatible with this.
this, along with the promise of salvation is the very essence of Christianity. If you don't agree with with this way of leading your life, if you don't believe that this is the proper course to take then it may be time to admit to yourself that you're not a Christian.
(to Eagler,
after re-reading what I wrote I noticed that some parts of my post could be interpreted as being directed at you and not just as a response to your question. thats not what I intended but I'm to lazy to go back and re-word those parts, so just know that the 'you' I refer to is the people I see this behavior in, not you. I really don't know you well enough to make that kind of judgment about you and it wouldn't be my place if I did. this is just another thing that people need to try and find and change in themselves instead of trying to change others.)
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Originally posted by storch
Hitler was evil and the Brits were good huh. Both Hitler and the Brits were both good and evil actually we can boil it down further. There are no good humans. no, not even one.
Yes, true, no one is completely good or completely evil. If you took the opposite to be my point then you missed it.
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Originally posted by phookat
Yes, true, no one is completely good or completely evil. If you took the opposite to be my point then you missed it.
Here let me clear it up further. NO ONE is good, eg. EVERYONE is evil. That is my point. very divergent world views.
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Fine, if you want to believe everyone is completely evil, have at it. LOL.
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Originally posted by phookat
Fine, if you want to believe everyone is completely evil, have at it. LOL.
I'll take it a step further Evil Adolf Hitler or Josef Stalin or Saddam Hussein or Fidel Castro or Ted Bundy were no more evil than Good Mother Teresa or Albert Schwitzer or Louis Pasteur or Karol Wojtyla or Saul of Tarsus or Martin Luther or John Calvin or John Wesley or John Knox or Dwight L. Moody. I understand that the pagan mind will have a hard time grasping that concept.
Care to know my reasoning why?
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Sure, go ahead.
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Almost said why storch but this is you fight ,lol,good luck.
Cap. apathy...I finally figured out what WWJD means ,took a while. I know WWJD would do , he required his soul ,I am sure you know what that means....I would have done nothing as I am not Jesus and would not have known what was in his heart.
I have to reply to your last post...but realize if I cant in the right way then I cant reply. I would if we were face to face.
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J A B I did so whats the problem?
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No problems.
Problem is with the people who won't be up front with stuff.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by storch
I'll take it a step further Evil Adolf Hitler or Josef Stalin or Saddam Hussein or Fidel Castro or Ted Bundy were no more evil than Good Mother Teresa or Albert Schwitzer or Louis Pasteur or Karol Wojtyla or Saul of Tarsus or Martin Luther or John Calvin or John Wesley or John Knox or Dwight L. Moody. I understand that the pagan mind will have a hard time grasping that concept.
Care to know my reasoning why?
about as much as you would care to know why i figure that through the correct use of the internet we can run an incredible amount of expirements in almost any field imaginable.
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Originally posted by phookat
Sure, go ahead.
OK you can find that in The Bible. The book of Romans Chapter 3 verse 10. BTW the book of Romans is a very well written piece of Christian apologetics. It was written by a murderer. Interesting read even from a secular world view.
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Originally posted by vorticon
about as much as you would care to know why i figure that through the correct use of the internet we can run an incredible amount of expirements in almost any field imaginable.
I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to communicate. Would you care to clarify?
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Originally posted by AWMac
anonymous It all comes down to who knows? No one does. We all try to find that inner peace that will carry us along in life.
Hope you didn't think I was knocking on you.
nope never thought that. ive seen what you were describing myself. no offense taken.
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Originally posted by storch
OK you can find that in The Bible. The book of Romans Chapter 3 verse 10.
I thought you mentioned that you had some "reasoning".
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Someone adhering to what's specifically mentioned in the writings of their faith is not a valid reason to you? Well .... as long as space monkeys aren't brought into it. :)
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captian apathy...You have to read portions of your post first to understand my reply.
I dont know of any christians that give blind support to someone who says they are a christian, if that christian is going against all of Adonai's teaching.' Of course as all humans are, they may be decieved for a time, or even ignorant , or hoping they will profit, or are motiviated in some way, but on the whole I havent seen it. Also if this christian is following a teaching not taught by the bible then he most likely isnt a christian, but a wolf in sheeps clothing.
When have christians used coercion lately [since we are talking about the present and not the past.]
There are times when the end does justify the means,such as embracing stalin to defeat hitler.
Nobody can lower the amount of evil in the world, except God ,and he isnt going to yet. Again since we are talking present,what christian or body of christians are doing evil.
or is evil perhaps not the right word?
Again, what christian or body of christians is doing evil in the name of God? Isnt that an oxy-moron?
self- righteousness for a christian ,will not feel good for long, I know you know that, and all the reasons for that, without me having to write for the next 2 hrs.
Yes, there are, in all walks of life ,and maybe more so for christians, all types of people. I would think the only difference between any christian, and non-christians is forgiviness. Forsure it isnt their nature. These types of christians as you say, will be sorted out by God , and no one else. I suggest non- christians could look at them and say, if God can forgive them why not me?
Other than that, just why do we care? what does light have to do with darkness?
So far as you teaching people by example, I would agree if you said some people, but since you said all people ,I can not agree. Whatever example you set, will not come close ,to the example Jesus set. Me thinks you have forgotten Jesus saying....The world loves its own...why do you think the world would love you[my people] if it hated me?
No but Jesus did respond to evil done to his father in the temple.
And he did tell peter he could call 10 thousand angels to destory the world and set him free. You said Jesus didnt raise a army or lay waste to a nation and you are right. Then again, why should he, when he had all the host of heaven, at his command?
Perhaps telling certain people here, the reason he didnt call on the host of heaven, is because of the total love he has for these same people.He kept his mouth shut, to give all of us a chance.
But make no mistake, that army is coming soon, very soon, to do what you said he didnt do way back then.
We can not overpower this world in the name of God, Satan was given power by God to rule this world until the full fill ment of time.Granted, greater is he that is in us, than he that is in the world. But I get mixed up as to when you are talking spiritually or humanly. We are charged to .... as we make our way in the world to spread the gospel. I know this isnt written in the words the K.J. uses, but it is how it is written in the Greek.
Its late, I have most likely made most hate me more than they did if they even read this. I need to study your last 2 paragraphs in the context of your writings, i just cant square a few minor details yet. Btw I hate that phrase W.W.J.D.
respectfully demaw.
.
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Originally posted by Arlo
Someone adhering to what's specifically mentioned in the writings of their faith is not a valid reason to you?
I guess I'm distinguishing between "Giving my reason" and "Giving my reasoning". When you say the latter, it implies (to me) some individual thought of your own, specifically related to the subject at hand. Otherwise, there's no reason to say "Care to hear my reasoning." You can just say "I believe everything in the Bible" and be done with it.
IOW, the way he wrote his post, it seemed to me to imply that we could have a discussion on the subject. Obviously that is not the case.
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Originally posted by phookat
I guess I'm distinguishing between "Giving my reason" and "Giving my reasoning". When you say the latter, it implies (to me) some individual thought of your own, specifically related to the subject at hand. Otherwise, there's no reason to say "Care to hear my reasoning." You can just say "I believe everything in the Bible" and be done with it.
IOW, the way he wrote his post, it seemed to me to imply that we could have a discussion on the subject. Obviously that is not the case.
As I mentioned to you the book of Romans is simply the very best piece of Christiam Apologetics ever written. Taken as a literary work and not as divinely inspired writing the brilliance of it's author leaps at one from the pages. Your irrational fear of Christianity blinds you. I will wager any sum that you have no clue as to what is written in that text because you have never taken the time to look for yourself. You are ignorant and are seemingly blissful to remain so. Still I for my part admire your faith. It is both marvelous and amazing. However your intellect is wanting. :rofl
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ever notice religion and poetry and taste etc all fit in the "irrational" box?
Good luck debating.
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of your writings, i just cant square a few minor details yet. Btw I hate that phrase W.W.J.D.
respectfully demaw.
Its one of my fav phrases.
All it means is to stop and think, am I being Christlike in my responce? Should I type this? Should I do this? What would my lord do in this situation? Is taking this inkpen home from work stealing? Should I be thinking this way?
Its a measuring stick. No one knows Gods thoughts, but its easy enuff to know if Jesus would have any part in what your about to do or say.
WWJD a very fine way to look at life, give it a think.
disclaimer: No man is good,not even me ;->
. [/B]
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Originally posted by storch
As I mentioned to you the book of Romans is simply the very best piece of Christiam Apologetics ever written. Taken as a literary work and not as divinely inspired writing the brilliance of it's author leaps at one from the pages. Your irrational fear of Christianity blinds you. I will wager any sum that you have no clue as to what is written in that text because you have never taken the time to look for yourself. You are ignorant and are seemingly blissful to remain so. Still I for my part admire your faith. It is both marvelous and amazing. However your intellect is wanting. :rofl
Umm... OK. Is English your first language? Anytime you want to explain yourself or your reasoning, feel free. Until then, I'll assume you don't have any "reasoning", and you believe everyone is completely evil based on pure faith, which of course there is nothing wrong with.
But given that I am intellectually wanting, you should have no problem defeating me with your brilliant arguments. ;) Just curious why you haven't brought them up yet?
Incidentally, I did read Romans 3:10, right after you posted it. It repeats your statement, but offers no explanation for it.
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Originally posted by moot
ever notice religion and poetry and taste etc all fit in the "irrational" box?
Good luck debating.
Yeah, true to at least some extent. I'm sure nothing will come of this "discussion" either. Oh well.
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X2lee.....
Thought about it again,still dont like it.WWJD is always reduced to ...you have a suv that doesnt get 50 miles to the gallon , oh your a christian well....WWJD.
There are many more but what the heck youve heard them.
But one of the worst is when a christian ends a discussion with WWJD as if ...well me and Jesus is buds and he told me to say to you WWJD cause we think alike.
To me there are other ways to calm your self if you need to, but this one backfired and look how the world uses it now.
Not putting those down that use it ,just my opinion.
respectfully demaw.
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Originally posted by demaw1
X2lee.....
Thought about it again,still dont like it.WWJD is always reduced to ...you have a suv that doesnt get 50 miles to the gallon , oh your a christian well....WWJD.
I mean well What WOULD Jesus do? Just because you dont like
the fact that Jesus prolly wouldnt drive a gashog SUV doesnt mean that you cant drive one.
And if you dont like the fact that some will judge you for drivin the said SUV, doenst mean that they are right in thier judgement.
Seems like someone has used the phrase on you in a self righteous holierythantho way.
Follks ought not think themselves better than they are, its unchristianlike.
And appying WWJD will give you your compass bearing on ANYTHING you can think of. Whether or not you choose to apply that is up to the individual.
To be a christian is to be Christlike. So WWJD is the only true measuring stick there is
`ON a side note Paul said "all things are lawful for me but not all things are profitable".
Its ok to drive a SUV(using suv as a reference since u brought it up) But they certainly are not profitable to drive.
And someone who says sell your gashog because WWJD is just a
self righteous judgemental holyroller.
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Originally posted by demaw1
X2lee.....
Thought about it again,still dont like it.WWJD is always reduced to ...you have a suv that doesnt get 50 miles to the gallon , oh your a christian well....WWJD.
There are many more but what the heck youve heard them.
But one of the worst is when a christian ends a discussion with WWJD as if ...well me and Jesus is buds and he told me to say to you WWJD cause we think alike.
To me there are other ways to calm your self if you need to, but this one backfired and look how the world uses it now.
Not putting those down that use it ,just my opinion.
respectfully demaw.
I agree with you. I look at it from a Galatians 5 and 6 point of view with emphasis 6 v 7-10. And may God forgive me if I'm wrong but I really think that the gate is small and the path is narrow by design. I have in time become a five point Calvinist in my faith. And the reason why I am reticent to consider myself a true Christian is that I really am not bothered much that some (most) folks are on there merry way to eternal separation from God. I no longer feel it's a choice we can make. I think it would be arrogant of me to think that I "made a decision for Christ". It's more like he chose me, though why I he would escapes me. I'm certainly not deserving of salvation but I am very grateful for it. Freedom in Christ is freedom indeed. I am willing to hear other's thoughts on this topic and to consider other viewpoints.
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Originally posted by storch
I . Freedom in Christ is freedom indeed. I am willing to hear other's thoughts on this topic and to consider other viewpoints.
GalaTIANS WILL TELL YOU THAT TRUTH BUT IT DOES NOT FIT IN TH EBOX MOST CRISTIANS PUT OTHER CHRISTIANS IN.
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storch...calvinist...
Funny ,I came to that conclusion around 1988 .I had heard about calvinist theo. but never studied it. After I did read about it I was amazed that it jived, with some of my beliefs. Of course, leaving room for disagreement ,with a decent amount of their theo.or any organized organizations theo. ,I thought it was neat to have worked out my salvation, and found confermation from another direction that is normally frowned on.
X2lee...My bad didnt explain myself well enough...I didnt have a run in with holier than thou christian on WWJD theme.They dont bother me as I am confident in whom I believe. Besides everyone is human and fallible. It is the secularist that uses it that bugs me and it was a christian that gave them that weapon.
Suvs are expedeant to me, as the one I have is one of the safest vehicles on the road. Also ,most times being judged by some one doesnt bother me.
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As a practicing Pagan or Heathen if you prefer. I think this witch was in the wrong.. One of our most loved invocations is the Charge of the Goddess, in which the Goddess says "Once a month and better when the moon is full you shall meet in some SECRET place and adore me who is Queen of all the wise".. This missguided witch should not be outing herself or trying to change anyone's religious practices.
Blessed Be
ElLobo
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Originally posted by demaw1
. Besides everyone is human and fallible. It is the secularist that uses it that bugs me and it was a christian that gave them that weapon.
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Same difference, I was right in my thinking.
Spmeone has used it as a weapon and now you can see it as
what it is
A measuring stick if you will.
Maybe if you look at it differently you will begin to appreciate it more.