Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: RAM on March 16, 2000, 03:26:00 PM
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Well whine time (Joke)
Not a whine, really,but I find awful that after a fite with 2 Spits and one 205 in my lone 109G-10 I try to extend and I get killed from 1.3K in my FE (900yds in the guy's FE). I know that a spit's 20mm round can rip a wing like it did to mine...but hey...I cant believe in hits from 900yds in a 109!!!! the 109 was a LITTLE tiny aircraft...and I wasnt stand in the sky, I was pulling and pushing all time (in part to get the help of the 0G acceleration).
Pyro, Hitech, and all the HTC staff.. you have a very nice simulator here...but you need to put something to make these hits very very difficult. Is not the first time it happens to me...but for sure the most annoying one. Sad I have no film on this (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) I wish I had it...
Hope you can do something to avoid these kills...
thanks in advance
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Ram, out
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/images/Ram.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 03-16-2000).]
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Agree 100%
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
(http://www.rsaf.org/osf/images/osf_inga.gif)
http://www.rsaf.org/osf/ (http://www.rsaf.org/osf/)
[This message has been edited by Maniac (edited 03-16-2000).]
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Ram, when you extend are you extending straight and level?
I fly the Pony, which is similar to the G10 in this respect except its much much larger, and I can't ever remember getting hit at such a range.
What I do is use a very gentle 1G turn on my extensions, and I can't remember the last time someone got me that way.
If you want to work together sometime on it, Im willing to meet you in the TA.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Desperately trying to figure out why Kamikaze Pilots wore helmets"
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Negative, I was going with a little angle upwards, heading for home (I had an elevator and one aileron gone from the fite before, and low fuel status). I was pushing and pulling softly all time to accelerate and also cuz I saw tracers...I remember that I also banked a little to the left to see what was behind me...so no I wasnt static, I was extending and going up (wise thing to do in 109 anyway <G> )
And anyway, stable or not, what I'm trying to say is that such hits were nearly impossible in real life...and that the accuracy must degrade a lot on long distance shooting. 900 yds are A LOT (and this is too for the bomber's guns) to hit a plane...
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Ram, out
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 03-16-2000).]
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RAM; I've seen posted here and other places in print reports of real life takedowns from 1500 yards or better.
If that was a spit on you; and you had already recieved damage; it is possible that u were just one 'ping' from catastrophic failure on your plane.
Further; I've only mananged one kill from above 1000 yards; and only been killed on two occasions from that range. An infinitly small percentage considering the number of sorties I've flown; deaths recieved and given...
And lastly; I can recall an incident involving a G10 on my butt; better than 1k back being flown by TOWD, and using only his MG's he was able to knock the tail off my erraticly manuvering P51. It happens.. rarely; and considering the vagarys of the net; seems to be pretty well in line with real-life expectations.
Don't get me wrong; I have plenty of beefs with the Gun/Cannon Modeling; but frankly, I've never seen anything better than what we have either. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Salute; Sir!
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(http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/images/hangtime.gif) TDY from Warbirds Pale Horses Squadron
[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 03-16-2000).]
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I guess the only thing to do is take these guys to a range.
I know of a fellow that will let you shoot a .50 MG as long as you can afford the ammo.
Let's take YOUR smallest car and park it about 1500 yards away from the gun. Heck, make it 2000 yards! I'll buy the ammo...you have nothing to worry about...hits are impossible at that range, right? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ballistics is ballistics guys. The rounds will go much farther than 1k. MUCH FARTHER.
Accept it, it's a fact.
If an AH "good shot" is willing to hose away most of his ammo load at you, even at 900 yds you're probably going to take pings. Maybe even enough to kill you outright or finish off earlier damage.
The percentage of hits at long range is pretty low. Some ammo loads are pretty high. If someone shoots 800 rnds of 20mm at you from an F4U, just a 1% hit ratio is going to ruin your day.
I return you to your previously scheduled whine. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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This reminds me of the ol' WB days when you could ping up to 1000 yrds. Lots of people whinged and whined and now they got the gunnery in WB.
I flew WB from 2.0 to 2.71 but really lost interest after WB 2.5. It wasn't all coz of the gunnery, but it played a big part in my departure late last year.
Just MHO.
Ex.
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To Hangtime:
Well you say it happened only once to you...It happened more than once to me..in fact more that five times that I can recall...Yes, hits are possible...yes a 20mm is powerful...but no, I cant believe that I have so many kills that way...(or maybe is that I attract shoots (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))...I still believe that the gunnery must be turned a little down...I agree the guns modelling are amazing, HT has done a nice job here...and I agree that ballistically those kills are probable. I only say that in RL ballistics arent all and that must be modelled somehow...
for Toad...I repeat Its not a whine,, it is only what I believe it is somewhat unrealisitic. I understand how ballistics work. I understand what you say about the car...and no I wont put my car at 1500 yds...maybe if you shoot from a jeep moving at 200mph and you let me move at 300 mph, then I let you do it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif). you will make me a couple holes yes...but nothing more, and nothing disastrous...and that in a car...2D. Planes move in 3D. MUCH harder to hit a 3d moving plane than a 2d moving car. And of course no comparison possible with a immovile car sitting 1500yds away.
Your point is that ballistically is possible. I agree. But still not probable. I agree. But I still say that 20mm rounds at 900yds shoot from a 200mph moving (more or less) spit to a 300mph (more,not less I remember my speed quite well (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)) 109 moving away and not in a stable way must be MUCH more difficult to hit than a 50cal. and a 50 is VERY difficult to hit at those ranges...so...
Your gunnery range example is good,toad, but not aplicable. Much more things are playing here apart from ballistics.
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Ram, out
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/images/Ram.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 03-16-2000).]
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Ram. Havent you heard. The pixies sprinkled magic dust on those 2 lone 20mm. If you dont belive me try to find one that AVOIDS an HO.
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I have my doubts about the hit detection. Sure seems like shooting watermelons.
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Originally posted by Toad:
I guess the only thing to do is take these guys to a range.
I know of a fellow that will let you shoot a .50 MG as long as you can afford the ammo.
Let's take YOUR smallest car and park it about 1500 yards away from the gun. Heck, make it 2000 yards! I'll buy the ammo...you have nothing to worry about...hits are impossible at that range, right? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ballistics is ballistics guys. The rounds will go much farther than 1k. MUCH FARTHER.
Accept it, it's a fact.
If an AH "good shot" is willing to hose away most of his ammo load at you, even at 900 yds you're probably going to take pings. Maybe even enough to kill you outright or finish off earlier damage.
The percentage of hits at long range is pretty low. Some ammo loads are pretty high. If someone shoots 800 rnds of 20mm at you from an F4U, just a 1% hit ratio is going to ruin your day.
I return you to your previously scheduled whine. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Hey Toad I will do that with one small change you mount the fifty on a truck and drive 60 miles an hour and I will drive my Van at 60 miles an hour and evade (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) bet you don't hit much at 2K while we are both moving (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BigJim
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(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ---> No Sniveling! <--- (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
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howdy i was the other spit in that fight and can witness all stands as stated by both partys but the other spit pilot ( whos name evads me but is a hell of a shot in any case) pointed out that hits ar cumulative and that he had shot the toejam out of you earlyer in the fight,so that he hit you with that last little golden bb that it took to cause final falier in somtin important. i think this is the answer ( and it dosent find any fault with gunnery model tho that was not my aim) and a 50 cal will ruin you whole day at 15k ( being half the aimbiant air density that you would have at sea level i.e. half the resistantce from drag and alot more range) the shot seems emanently possible and even totaly correct. any way i saw it at it was a bute heeh
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Shooter was Chaunc. Hits on my plane were all concenctrated on right wing and side of the plane...Wing ripped from 1.3K was the left...I am doubtful that some rounds of 50 cal can rip a wing from that distance. I am doubtful a hispano 20mm can hit from that distance. I am not messing with damage model, 20mm is deadly at any distance. What I say is that the hit chance must be lowered at those long shots IMHO
BTW towd..nice fite (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)...but sad my ded (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Ram, out
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/images/Ram.gif)
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BigJim
Deal! Please sign the suitable waiver so that I have no liability.
Give me a few thousand rounds of practice (far less than people have had here) and then let's play.
Ever shot coyotes out of a pickup doing 60 across a Kansas prairie? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Not that the ground vehicle analogy is all that applicable. Airplanes, in general, are far more smooth a gun platform than a vehicle in open country.
[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 03-16-2000).]
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As a person that was machine gun qualified and have done many ranges with the M2, I would say that there is no correlation between what a tripod mount gun and a flying twisting buffetting plane can do. I remember trying to hit those little remote control planes with a pedestal mount 50...
The 50 is deadly accurate, you could easily hit a car or a 109 on the ground with it at 1500 yrds(corrected)..but what has that got to do with anything.. Strap 4 of em on the hood of your jeep, put a dot on you wind sheild and chase each other around on the open plains with them..see if you can hit at 1500 yards then.
Would be fun to have here though...he he rat patrol!
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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew
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Uhhh... several bits and pieces culled together from the above posts make the answer to this fairly obvious, and a while back I posted a rather lengthy discussion in regards to .50 cal bomber gunnery that explained much of this too. To address a few points...
1)RAM, though the fire had "concentrated" on the right side during your previous fight, I seriously doubt that is where ALL the damage was, and if parts were hanging on by a thread, it wouldn't take more than a couple hits to finish the job.
2)Putting aside all of the "jeeps, and cars, and trucks, oh my..." analogies of shooting a .50 from a moving platform on the ground, I agree with the concept that a plane is a smoother platform to shoot from, especially with a very steady, patient hand on the stick. Carefully hosing hundreds of rounds in your target's general direction will almost surely result in some hits, and those hits could very well finish any damage started earlier.
3)Remember convergence people.... it is a fighter pilot's best friend when used right, as it concentrates the firepower in to one devastating cluster up close.. BUT... in a way, it could also work to your advantage at a distance. Imagine this.. you have anywhere from 4 to 6 guns, all shooting to a different point of impact. This impact pattern becomes more widely spread as the distance increases. Accuracy at long distance obviously suffers, but the shotgun blast-like quality of this pattern of fire would seem to increase the likelihood of hits on the target as well, especially if the target is moving. Imagine with me, an evading target, weaving back and forth, and I am spraying, using my tracers to guide my aim as best as I can, and my prey is basically dodging around in my hosing pattern. (I just re-read one of your posts, and you acknowledged having seen tracers, so he was obviously "homing in on you" with his tracers, which is after all what they are designed for.) Hits would be likely, especially with vertical motion like you were using, since bullet drop can actually be used against a vertically moving target like you were in that incident. This is probably why Vermillion's tactic makes sense, as his slight turning course keeps his attacker from using bullet drop to lob rounds in on his head. His sideways course forces the attacker to lead him, making accuracy that much more difficult at this range. These weapons are very capable of maintaining lethal impact energy well beyond the distances in question here, so if enough ammo is sprayed, and the target is moving within this impact pattern, hits are likely. Probably not enough lethality to take down a healthy plane, but a battle torn craft is ripe for killing, even at this range.
Seems to make sense to me, but then again.. who am I? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Skorpyon (edited 03-17-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Skorpyon (edited 03-17-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Skorpyon (edited 03-17-2000).]
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Pongo!
Thanks! Always glad to hear the voice of actual experience in here!
Here's why I post on this:
There seems to be some idea that a slug or shell suddenly disappears or something beyond a certain range. As if at 1K or 1.3K <or even less> a projectile just vanishes into the cosmic chaos. I think that this perception has it's roots in <ahem> other flight simulations.
As you point out, you can indeed hit things beyond 1500 yards. This simple fact is apparently overlooked by a lot of people.
As Skorpyon correctly points out, it can even be an airplane. Running in a straight line <no heading changes> favors the shooter.
I have yet to see a film of long range shooting that shows anything but very low percentage strikes. That DOESN'T mean you can't be hit...it means it takes a lot of careful shooting to do any damage.
The ballistics are the ballistics. It's a relatively simply science, the data for the guns & ammo is much more readily available than that for flight models and I doubt HTC fudged anything to give us MORE range. In fact, it may be the opposite.
YOU know a .50 will go farther than 1k, even 2k. Ever seen ANY strikes beyond about 1.2? Hey! Are those rounds just disappearing? Seems like we should have seen at least one or two flashes!!! <Whine, whine, boo hoo, boo hoo>
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'm satisfied with the guns model. It fits the game. If you don't like being killed at 1k, don't let them get the guns anywhere near you. That's your responsibility, not HTC's.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Well if the difficulty of hitting at long range isnt upped before the competition hits the streets with their new versions, i will have to vote with my credit card again.
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
(http://www.rsaf.org/osf/images/osf_inga.gif)
http://www.rsaf.org/osf/ (http://www.rsaf.org/osf/)
[This message has been edited by Maniac (edited 03-17-2000).]
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Ahhh. The ultimatum.
Let me ask this. Wouldn't the act of having bullets 'disappear' after 300 yards be "tweaking" the game? In other words making a change away from realism (bullets DON'T disappear after 300 yards) to one for "playability"? Doesn't that fit into the dumbing the sim down category?
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 03-17-2000).]
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Guys ,the reason real life long range kills were so difficult were the fact of trying to judge the range, accurately assessing if you were scoring hits, and to be blatantly honest lack of experience and skill in the pilots.
First off, we have perfect range indicators in our Icons, just like modern radar. Don't turn this into an icon debate, accept the fact that we have them and realize that they give us and edge the real life pilots didn't have.
Second, right now we can perfectly judge when we score hits. We see the same hit effect at 100 yards as we see at 1000 yards. So people can spray and pray, adjust, and spray and pray some more. This is one area we could probably see an improvement.
Third, and certainly one of the most important. Experience. Just about every pilot here has the equivalent combat experience of Gunther Rall. Most pilots entered combat with so little actual gunnery experience they couldn't hit the proverbial side of an Aircraft Carrier. We have fired millions and millions of rounds of ammunition in combat situations. They never had anything close to that.
But even with all those advantages I still say that if a pilot gets hit beyond 800 (which is damn rare) its his own fault. Sorry but its the truth. RAM from your own admission you were jinking up and down, giving them a planeform shot which is much easier to hit, especially if two of them were spraying huge amounts of ammo at you. A simple low G turn and extension you would have been safe, and you could have re-entered combat later in a safe position.
And if anyone thinks they can consistently hit out to these absurd ranges, please... PROVE it too me in the training arena, and I will take your side of the arguement. Otherwise you are judging the whole system on the basis of single situations that may or may not be applicable.
We have realistic guns, realistic ballistics, and realistic aircraft. But don't dumb down the whole gunnery system to artifically match what many consider to be "historic" ranges, because of skills and advantages "historic" pilots did not have. The Arena is NOT real life.
The last thing I want to see is a system like the current WB's model, where you have to be a TnB pilot who likes to weld himself to the aft end of the enemy for 15 seconds on the deck to get a kill. Thats even more unrealistic.
Remember, The Arena is NOT real life.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Desperately trying to figure out why Kamikaze Pilots wore helmets"
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Look Westy,
i have posted this several times on the board, realistic modeled gunnery + range counters dont belong in the same sim.
this is how HTC would please me if i had an chioce in the matter :
#1 keep the current gunnery model and get rid of the range icons at distances d0.8+
or
#2 keep the range counters and lower the lethalithy (spelling?) from d0.8+
Of course i would like to go with #1 but i would settle for #2 if #1 was completly out of question
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
(http://www.rsaf.org/osf/images/osf_inga.gif)
http://www.rsaf.org/osf/ (http://www.rsaf.org/osf/)
[This message has been edited by Maniac (edited 03-17-2000).]
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I could understand the plane being a poor platform for guns in WWI. Most accounts I have read state that the planes were a very stable gun platform. I have killed at 1.0k and have had hits at 1.2k with .50s and 20mm.
But this was only if the con was flying in a straight line. If the plane was jinking then trying to guess the jink was hopeless as the bullets got there he had already moved again. Also to kill at 1.0k with .50s take most of my ammo in a 1D hog. I always hope for the lucky pk but never any luck. And very rarely do I ever waste that kinda ammo on that lo of a % shot.
When I started flying AH I was a spray and prayer for the most part. Not enough patience or confidence to close into 200 yds. I took 600-800yd shot with some kills. Now that Ihave flown it abit I shoot 300 or less most of the time and my Kills have gone up.
If you are going to use the .50s on a jeep to test make sure you do it highway and not backroads or offroad. My limited experience in real planes has lent me to the idea that 80% of the time it is like being on the highway or smoother (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Just some uneducated ramblings.
Feel free to flame away.
Put on nomex before I posted (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
S!
Rocket
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(http://www.reddragons.de/images/sig.jpg)
The Red Dragons
Fierce and Bold
With Honour and Courage
_______________________
www.reddragons.de (http://www.reddragons.de)
[This message has been edited by Rocket (edited 03-17-2000).]
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I agree 100%. Range counters should be gone. I also have issues with the current icon system but HiTech already said he's not planning on doing anything with them.
This topic has been dragged to and fro a few times. And the link below is the last time it came up. It was also the last time Pyro and HiTech had alot to say about the subject:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/001711.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/001711.html)
In my opinion you end up taking yourself out of any efforts for trying to get a workable solution by blurting out "fix it or I'm leaving." And as an "fyi", I lost respect for your observations with your comment about HTC having the current gunnery due to FA and AW people, in another forumn.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 03-17-2000).]
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Quote :
"HiTech already said he's not planning on doing anything with them."
Since they are not gonna do anything about it, why should i be ashamed to say that if the competition _are_ adressing the things i find is wrong i will leave?
I really like it here and i hope i will stay in the future too, but my time as being loyal to one single company is long gone.
I will fly the sim that brings the most fun for me. . I even can see me switching sims month to month if the different companys versions are better then the other from month to month.
Oops im getting off topic here sorry.
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
(http://www.rsaf.org/osf/images/osf_inga.gif)
http://www.rsaf.org/osf/ (http://www.rsaf.org/osf/)
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Hiyas Ram!
Just a thought....
We are in real life fighter aircraft....you are being pursued by me....I am 1200yrds out on your six.....I guarantee you would not have egressed the way you described in your earlier post, especially if I were firing cannon rounds your way.
Solution....dont let anyone that close to your six....I'm certainly not invincible, but the six in me 51 is not an easy target (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Live with it....it's a great game...be thankful....$30.00/month....great guys to shoot the breeze with.....we live forever (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Rude Out!
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TOAD
Yes I have shot coyote's out of the back of a pickup, but off of a motorcycle is harder (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Milo
"A MiG on your 6 is better than no MiG at all"
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
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Milo
True...motorcycle is much harder and you need to use a pistol then.
Snowmobile is easiest of all, don't you agree? <if you have some snow, of course (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) )
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only a couple of things:
A): I like the idea of "range finders" wich lock at say 500 yds...from 500-1000 yds it shows a 500+ number...from 1K to 1.5K shows a 1K+ ,then 1.5K+ and so on...what WOULD make long range shooting MUCH harder. I believe range numbers are fine and to an extent, necessary.
B): Vermillion: OK yes I wasnt turning....I was 1.3K from a plane and I felt that he shouldnt hit me...so I didnt did the low G turn. My fault, yes...but still 1.3K.
C): rude, contest. I am 500yds on your 12 with say 200 mph in a 109G-10. You are,say, 150mph in your P51. You wont catch me in your life, and with the 50 cals I am sure you wont never kill me.
OK I let you being me the one with 150mph, you are too 150 mph. Again you wont catch me in your life. G-10 sits down a p51 in acceleration...and after I win 50 mph I'll start a gentle climb of 2K/minute. In 5 minutes you will be more than 3K away.
Runstand runs. Runstang doesnt accelerate very much going upwards Me109G_10 does it fine. So say the location (in Main arena or SEA, no unlimited bullets here) and we'll do the test.
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My experience in AH (ver 34 beta), long range shots are very much the exception not the rule. My gunnery is not what I would consider expert. But, I have gotten a few kills at over d1.0k. I considered them to be very lucky. These long range kills I attribute to using the zoom feature.
HTC has said that the gun ballistic model is as accurate as they can make it. My question is this. Do you feel that the gun ballistic model should be modified un-realistically to improve game play?
For myself, I have learned how to avoid getting shot down at these longer ranges. Often a small jink of only a couple of degrees is sufficient.
Good Luck and have Fun! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
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Ram;
B): Vermillion: OK yes I wasnt turning....I was 1.3K from a plane and I felt that he shouldnt hit me...so I didnt did the low G turn. My fault, yes...but still 1.3K.
Do this. The next time you fly with a wingman, have your wingman fly on your six. Look at your wingman and notice his range. Then ask him to look at you and tell you his range.
What I have noticed by doing this is that the closer the range the less disparity and the farther the greater. If your wingman shows d500 from him to you, you might see d800 from you to him. If your wingman shows d175 from him to you, you might see d200.
After you have been shot down, at long range, ask the shooter what range they saw when the shot. Surprizingly it can be much closer than what you thought it was. My experience is that a range where you are completely safe is not till almost d2.0k.
Remember it is not the range that you see that gets you shot down, it the range that the shooter sees.
Another way to test this by going to the Training Arena. Have a buddy fly a BUFF. Making several flights fly at specific ranges from the BUFF and have him shoot at you. Find the range where you are safe and where are not.
Good Luck! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
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I asked Chaunc the distance in his FE. 900yards was the answer, as I said before.
900 yds is still a long long way...
But yes I know I did wrong w/o the turn. Don't worry that I wont fall in the same error twice (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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After reading Rams post, I couldnt help but reflect on that scene from Lonesome Dove, when the guy is supposedly out of range and begins strutting around like a chicken, mockingly, and Guss, says "I had about enough of this" and folds out the long range site on his Henry, licks the front site, and plugs the guy in the belly. hehee!
You ever seen that movie Ram? Did ya have the same look on your face that guy did, holding his belly? I know its frustrating. Ive been plugged in the same fashion from long range, but it doesnt happen very often.
JagdNine
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guys...
You know what? SH#T HAPPENS (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) and that one lucky bullet can make your day...
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To whom it may concern:
It is my belief that the P-38 is the best long range shooter in the game right now. It is has a very high concentration of firepower and a boat load of long range 50cal ammo.
Check your six! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
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The 38 is an awesome vulching platform too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-Westy
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Questions - what factors are taken into consideration in the gunnery? How does the damage model work? Are real life values are used?
If these are answered people would have a lot more solid base to argue what is and isn't wrong with gunnery rather than just guessing. If HT or Pyro have done a through job i certainly wouldn't be in favour of just arbitarily making the guns weaker.