Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Urchin on August 14, 2004, 04:25:01 PM
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Enable the F4U4, and disable every plane for the Japs except the B5N. But make anyone flying Jap empty the tail gun out before they make contact with an enemy. Should be real exciting, may even get the Allied ******* fighting instead of waiting for 5 on 1 odds to bore n zoom.
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no they still wont fight cuz we might ram them:lol
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Originally posted by Urchin
Enable the F4U4, and disable every plane for the Japs except the B5N. But make anyone flying Jap empty the tail gun out before they make contact with an enemy. Should be real exciting, may even get the Allied ******* fighting instead of waiting for 5 on 1 odds to bore n zoom.
Seriously, you were pissin' and moanin' that life sucks from the womb, weren'tya? :D
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F4U-4 only see the action over Okinawa in 1945, just close til War was over.
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just to let you know, it is just as hard to kill an F4U as it is for an F4U to kill a zero. A slow F4U is a dead F4U which is the only easy part.
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An F4U is untouchable against Zekes and Ki61's if its flown properly. Zekes are the ultimate rope-a-dope victim, and the F4U turns inside the Ki61 with full flaps in addition the obvious speed advantages. Neither of them really have a chance.
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still am rather puzzled on why the CT even runs pac. there are huge holes in the Japanese planeset, but yet the Navy plane set is pretty complete. you might as well hand you zekes over to the admiral. alteast in ETO you dont have these huge planeset gaps.
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"F4U turns inside the Ki61 with full flaps"
Oh please...see how long you live trying that as a tactic. You have got to be joking.
"there are huge holes in the Japanese planeset"
Like what? exactly. Whats the 1943 IJ fighter that would make it all better. Please name it. Stop making stuff up just because its not the 109G-10 arena 24/7.
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lets see.
Ki43, ki44. the list goes on and on. hell we dont't even he a Golly-geen betty so dont tell there is no holes in the Japanese plane set.:rolleyes: laos not to mention that twin engined japanese fighter.
cry because i dont have a G10 in every setup lol. i didn't whine once through BoB. i dont care what plane i fly as long as it isn't lop sided. like the current setup is.
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Originally posted by Squire
"F4U turns inside the Ki61 with full flaps"
Oh please...see how long you live trying that as a tactic. You have got to be joking.
I do it all the time, its my SOP against the Ki61, I also dont fly over 10k. Under 200 mph the F4U handily out turns the Ki61, ask Karnak.
Maybe your just too timid?
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"Ki43, ki44. the list goes on and on"
Lets see, Ki-43 does 320mph and has 2 12.7mm. Right. Ok. Ki-44, no better than a Ki-61, no faster, its poorly armed as well, also less manueverable. Do you have any others?
What did you say "Im off to the MA for another week"? Some support the CT, some don't.
Grits, please, dropping flaps and turning in a F4U-1, I wont debate a tactic that is clearly suicidal unless you are maybe gang banging 3-1. Also, Im not insinuiating im better than you...if you can manage to do that and survive my friend, I salute you, I will stick to less "colorfull" tactics myself vs the 61, like running and getting TheBug to clear me :)
Btw 880's mission Thursday flying Ij was a big success, we downed a raft of F4U-1s in our Ki-61's (we have done it before too), it was fun. I dont think we took a loss either. So much for our poor outclassed ride of the night.
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the tony has alot worse stall than the f4u at low speed.
i wouldn't care pac is boring, it is worthless cause the allies always have the ubber planes and always have the numbers.
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Originally posted by Grits
I do it all the time, its my SOP against the Ki61, I also dont fly over 10k. Under 200 mph the F4U handily out turns the Ki61, ask Karnak.
Yup. You did a good job. I was on WEP, flaps out, using rudder and light on fuel and I could not pull away. What it felt like is that the Ki-61's engine just isn't powerful enough for the weight of the aircraft. In something like a Spitfire Mk IX or N1K2 you can feel the big engine pulling you tighter than the airframe wants to go. The Ki-61 felt remarkably like the Mossie, an aircraft I know well in AH. It was wallowing and I had to fight it to avoid stalling out.
The Ki-61 seems a bit worse in AH2 than it was in AH1. The guns haven't changed, but it seems less manuverable.
Squire,
The Ki-44-II-Otsu has a usable armament, is a bit faster than the Ki-61 and climbs/accelerates way, WAY better than the Ki-61. It would be a very valuable tool and I would use it in preference of the Ki-61 any time. You are correct about the Ki-43-II-Ko, it would be a weaker A6M.
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I didnt mean that in the rubbing it in sense either Karnak, that encounter stands out in my mind because it took a lot longer than usual.
The Ki61, to me, seems to have the edge on the F4U between 200 and 250 mph, above or below that the Hog wins. The key is getting the Ki to get through the range where it has the advantage quickly without getting kilt. Once under 200 the F4U-1 again gains the upper hand because as Karnak pointed out, the Ki starts to feel mushy and underpowered.
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No problem Grits. I didn't take it as a rubbing in, just an example.
I'm glad I took longer to kill though.;)
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Ki61 much dangerous opponent for USN than A6Ms but most "japs" fly in Zero and whine that nobody turnfight with them :rolleyes:
Ki still suck anyway, but at least it has chances to obtrude fight upon "blue planes".
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Ki61 a lot like P51B, but most peeps don't recognize it.
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Show me grits.
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I think the Ki-44 would be a fine fighter for 1943...and I do realise it does a few things better than a Ki-61 (accelerates way better, hmm, dunno about that), but...I have a problem with it being touted as "if we only had the Ki-44, PAC 43 setups would be so much better", because thats just bunk. Its *comparable* to a Ki-61, its not some uber plane. Yes, I would like to see it added in AH nonetheless. As for the Ki-43, that one too, but its hardly going to be a cure for an F4U-1, its just way too slow. I will say this again, in 1943 the best overall fighter in service with the IJ forces was the Ki-61 Tony, and its a "realistically workable" fighter vs the 1943 Allied fighter and bomber types.
I don't see the P-38F or the P-39D in the set either, so saying that the IJ set has all these holes in the planeset is just a bit choosey. There are holes in all the sets, thats too bad, but its just the way it is.
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I am getting better at IL2/FB
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Originally posted by Eagler
I am getting better at IL2/FB
You go goil! :D
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Originally posted by Eagler
I am getting better at IL2/FB
Yeah, me too. And since I fly it most during weeks that aren't Pac setups in the CT, I get a heckuva lot more practice than you.
Moral of the story: We all have our faves. How about we not complain about the setups? just fly'em if you like'em; don't if you dont.
Splash1
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Originally posted by Dennis
Yeah, me too. And since I fly it most during weeks that aren't Pac setups in the CT, I get a heckuva lot more practice than you.
Moral of the story: We all have our faves. How about we not complain about the setups? just fly'em if you like'em; don't if you dont.
Splash1
who is complaining??
:)
maybe a few more jap planes will make pac more interesting for me - maybe not
fwiw imo 2 weeks of any planeset/map is one week too long for CT
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TrueKill, Fork and I flew F4Us for more than a few sorties and we had no problems landing kills in them while turning with the Zeros. The only times I died were due to the great collision model in this latest patch which kills you within d100. The allied flyers are just pansies thats all. The F4U is a good enough turn fighter at full flaps working the throttle and using the rudder.
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I have to disagree. 1v1, no it is not good enough. However, when I fly Axis, I tend to see 4 or 5 high Allied planes bore n zooming 1 or 2 lower Axis planes. In those situatiuons, yes, the F6F and F4U are manueverable enough to actually fight, but none of them ever do.
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allied flyers are just pansies thats all.
is that anything like "farm boi opportunists"...?
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Originally posted by Urchin
I have to disagree. 1v1, no it is not good enough. However, when I fly Axis, I tend to see 4 or 5 high Allied planes bore n zooming 1 or 2 lower Axis planes. In those situatiuons, yes, the F6F and F4U are manueverable enough to actually fight, but none of them ever do.
Just defeated 1 A6M and a Kate in the Kitty with no trouble at all and they both had alt advantage on me. Landed the kills because I was all shot up then re-upped in the Hog and killed another A6M that had alt on me with an 800m long burst. I took out his engine and he was forced to ditch giving me the kill. I could have shot him down deadstick but opted to take the high road.
You allies are weenies. Learn to fly your equipment.
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Eagler, Dennis do you guys fly IL-2 Online? Or just the box single player?
Stream
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Originally posted by storch
TrueKill, Fork and I flew F4Us for more than a few sorties and we had no problems landing kills in them while turning with the Zeros. The only times I died were due to the great collision model in this latest patch which kills you within d100. The allied flyers are just pansies thats all. The F4U is a good enough turn fighter at full flaps working the throttle and using the rudder.
Its not always about dogfighting:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Show me grits.
You kill me easily no matter what planes we are in, that wont prove anything. :)
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Originally posted by Urchin
I have to disagree. 1v1, no it is not good enough. However, when I fly Axis, I tend to see 4 or 5 high Allied planes bore n zooming 1 or 2 lower Axis planes. In those situatiuons, yes, the F6F and F4U are manueverable enough to actually fight, but none of them ever do.
Those are the smart pilots :aok
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Originally posted by storch
Just defeated 1 A6M and a Kate in the Kitty with no trouble at all and they both had alt advantage on me. Landed the kills because I was all shot up then re-upped in the Hog and killed another A6M that had alt on me with an 800m long burst. I took out his engine and he was forced to ditch giving me the kill. I could have shot him down deadstick but opted to take the high road.
You allies are weenies. Learn to fly your equipment.
Obviously a pilot that doesnt know how to fly a zero :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
Its not always about dogfighting:rolleyes:
How would you know? If u ain't cherrypicking and worried about your K/D ratio then ur gaming the game worried about ur rank. None of those comments were directed at you. They were for tha Playaz.
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Well let me think for a min.
I slow down in an F4U to dogfight eather a Ki-61 or a Zero. Now I have no way of disengaging if another Ki-61 or Zero decides to enter the fight when he now calls all the shots. Sure I may shoot down one or two but that is beside the point. Storch you do more b1tching than anyone else when it comes to a 1 vs 1 dogfight if a second fighter engages. You for one have no room to talk trash here. You want a one vs one dogfight with me? Just when do you want me in the DA? I'm not saying I can shoot you down or anyone else. What I am saying is that if anyone wants a 1 vs 1 with me, its not going to happen in the CT if others are near. I can say that this will make it worse with the enabling of FULL radar. When someome sees a dogfight on radar, they come in fast.
Again, I am not in the CT do dogfight, I am there to shoot down enemy planes. I do not fly in the MA to dogfight, I fly in there to shoot down planes. I fly in the DA to "dogfight".
In the last few days I have bent my own rules and have died many times. The Combat Arena is not for 1 vs 1 fights using historical aircraft selections. Thats considered dualing in historic aircraft. Sounds like the makings for the DA to me.
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Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
Well let me think for a min.
I slow down in an F4U to dogfight eather a Ki-61 or a Zero. Now I have no way of disengaging if another Ki-61 or Zero decides to enter the fight when he now calls all the shots. Sure I may shoot down one or two but that is beside the point. Storch you do more b1tching than anyone else when it comes to a 1 vs 1 dogfight if a second fighter engages. You for one have no room to talk trash here. You want a one vs one dogfight with me? Just when do you want me in the DA? I'm not saying I can shoot you down or anyone else. What I am saying is that if anyone wants a 1 vs 1 with me, its not going to happen in the CT if others are near. I can say that this will make it worse with the enabling of FULL radar. When someome sees a dogfight on radar, they come in fast.
Again, I am not in the CT do dogfight, I am there to shoot down enemy planes. I do not fly in the MA to dogfight, I fly in there to shoot down planes. I fly in the DA to "dogfight".
In the last few days I have bent my own rules and have died many times. The Combat Arena is not for 1 vs 1 fights using historical aircraft selections. Thats considered dualing in historic aircraft. Sounds like the makings for the DA to me.
Most of my fights in allied aircraft have involved multiple Axis adversaries. The Hog will turn, a little.
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Originally posted by o0Stream140o
Eagler, Dennis do you guys fly IL-2 Online? Or just the box single player?
Stream
Used to play online in the original IL-2 but quit because of my crappy rig. Once I upgraded the PC, never had the desire to go back online. So I play offline in campaign or mission-generator mode. It's my respite from the player venom so prevalent online.
AH has no corner on that market.
Splash1
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"I slow down in an F4U to dogfight eather a Ki-61 or a Zero. Now I have no way of disengaging if another Ki-61 or Zero decides to enter the fight when he now calls all the shots"
Thats basically the real point, an F4U-1 that did that would only last for so long, with a Ki-61 on its 6, its dead, so the idea that you would drop flaps, losing any speed advantage it had, and turn with them is insane. Its just what the IJ would want to see you do, in fact. You may get a few kills, but rtbing consistantly would not be in your future.
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Originally posted by Squire
Thats basically the real point, an F4U-1 that did that would only last for so long, with a Ki-61 on its 6, its dead, so the idea that you would drop flaps, losing any speed advantage it had, and turn with them is insane. Its just what the IJ would want to see you do, in fact. You may get a few kills, but rtbing consistantly would not be in your future.
Maybe thats why it works so well for me, the Axis are so used to seeing the Allies run that they have a stroke and die from shock when I drop flaps and turn with them?
My K/D in the F4U is 5/1, 10 kills and 2 deaths, one death was a collision. You say its insane, I say your timid. No matter why the reason, the fact of the matter is, it works. I do the same thing in the P-47, the 190, the Tyffie, ect. with similar results.
Just for the record I see the Axis do the exact same thing when they have the 190A-5 and the Allies only have the Spit V like in Sicily. The Allies dont have the market cornered on timidity.
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Originally posted by Squire
"I slow down in an F4U to dogfight eather a Ki-61 or a Zero. Now I have no way of disengaging if another Ki-61 or Zero decides to enter the fight when he now calls all the shots"
Thats basically the real point, an F4U-1 that did that would only last for so long, with a Ki-61 on its 6, its dead, so the idea that you would drop flaps, losing any speed advantage it had, and turn with them is insane. Its just what the IJ would want to see you do, in fact. You may get a few kills, but rtbing consistantly would not be in your future.
Squire I welcome u to try a Ki-61 vs me in a corsair. not as a bravado thing but that you may firsthand experience another dimension of what can be done. And I'm nowhere near as good as ground up and slowly cooked cornmeal is. (isn't that what people feed to chickens?)
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Originally posted by Grits
Just for the record I see the Axis do the exact same thing when they have the 190A-5 and the Allies only have the Spit V like in Sicily. The Allies dont have the market cornered on timidity.
Yes it is :P
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Originally posted by Squire
"I slow down in an F4U to dogfight eather a Ki-61 or a Zero. Now I have no way of disengaging if another Ki-61 or Zero decides to enter the fight when he now calls all the shots"
Thats basically the real point, an F4U-1 that did that would only last for so long, with a Ki-61 on its 6, its dead, so the idea that you would drop flaps, losing any speed advantage it had, and turn with them is insane. Its just what the IJ would want to see you do, in fact. You may get a few kills, but rtbing consistantly would not be in your future.
Welcome to the eternal world of the IJ in this setup.
You have the gall to potificate about what happens if another Ki-61 shows up when you're slow?:rofl
If you are in the Ki-61 you never have the chance to disengage and more often than not your concern isn't if a second F4U shows up, it is if a third F4U shows up.
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"Welcome to the eternal world of the IJ in this setup."
Is there sad music to go along with that?
"You have the gall to potificate"
Is that like urinating outdoors?
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Originally posted by Grits
Maybe thats why it works so well for me, the Axis are so used to seeing the Allies run that they have a stroke and die from shock when I drop flaps and turn with them?
Well, plus you're an excellent pilot, Grits. But I expect that a large part of your success with this tactic in the Corsairpig really is that it's completely unexpected.
FWIW, I think that a good fight for a Japanese pilot in this setup is against two allied planes. One-on-one, the blue guys are going to lose unless they stick to (yawn) b&z tactics, or unless they start with a big energy advantage.
- oldman
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Eh, I dont think I'm all that good, but I am aggressive which makes up for a lot of my other shortcomings. Ask any real fighter pilot what the single most important trait to have as a fighter pilot is and they will say aggressiveness, something lacking in more than a few in AH.
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"Allies do this"," Axis do that"
atleast im not missing anything
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Grits
Eh, I dont think I'm all that good, but I am aggressive which makes up for a lot of my other shortcomings. Ask any real fighter pilot what the single most important trait to have as a fighter pilot is and they will say aggressiveness, something lacking in more than a few in AH.
"L'audace L'audace toujour L'audace"
Timid people will never understand that concept. Coupled with the herd mentality of what can he do he's alone? makes for the uninspired performances we see in the arena day in, day out.
Not to boast. At around 2300 we had a sudden influx of folks in the arena who all showed up on the rook team. I will suppose they were from the rook herd which had too many numbers in the MA to be able to "up". (new rules in the wasteland)
They decided to magnanimously grace us in the Country Bumpkin Arena with their presence.
In short order they had sunken all of our Axis carriers. I cynically but not impolitely congratulated them for the long flights we would now experience in order to play.
The head cow or lemming then asked me if it was ok to capture bases to which I responded sure take A9 but leave A30 alone because it will make for even longer flight times for the rest of us once you leave. At about that time most of the CT regulars started migrating to the Axis side, only one remained Allied.
Sure enough the herd numbering 18 at it's peak attacks A30!! Our 7 CT regulars in a combination of manned ack, GVs and aircraft repulses the first wave. Their sword was blunted on our shield. we lost two fighter hangers and a few airframes but we could still reup. Several CT regulars landed multiple kills.
At this time I offer up one my classic taunts, the defective blue planes one. the head cow retorts and again comes the herd. This time they knock me out of my ack chair, then killed me upping an M16 as they took out the VH, Then they take out all the fighter hangers as well as flatten the town. I was fuming!!! (great piece of work you lemming hordes) Very precise bombing with jabos. it was impressive to behold. But this time the attack was not repulsed and a few Allied fighters remained up and were capping the field. They were no doubt revelling in their mastery of the lowly CTers and congratulating themselves on their decisive victory.
By that time C7 was within 12 minutes aerial striking distance of A30 so the beleaugered CT regulars quickly muster and field 6 fighters. The tension in the Arena is palpable. Good natured taunts are exchange but a gauntlet is clearly thrown down on the open channel by the Axis side. (guess who?)
Wild melees are strewn all over sector 9.11 each CT defender in the air is dealing with 3 herders in a pitched battle for A30. In mere seconds I had five kittys bagged and 1.5 C47s sadly my engine hit, and streaming three plumes of fuel I was forced to ditch in the slot after killing the last inbound goon while deadstick. The Arena was suddenly quieter. The herd leader was not to be found on the pilot roster. Not being one graced with modesty my taunts of the remaining herd members were many and sharp.
We had won the battle.
I want to thank HTC for providing a ready source of fodder for our Arena. That capping the number side thing in the MA is brilliant. I also thank the MA participants in the above mentioned battle. I hope you had as much fun as I did. Lastly but certainly not least I want to thank the CT regulars that without prompting switched sides to help out. And a very special thanks to Memnon and MV Jester without whos help there would have been no way I could have backed up my taunts.
Oh and MA types, Ya'll come back now ya hear!!!!!!! :D
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fwiw imo 2 weeks of any planeset/map is one week too long for CT [/B]
Eagler - The setup this week is running based on many responses both public and private to my request for information on what you guys would like to see out of a setup.
The overwhelming majority of players wanted to see something that allowed continuity within a setup and a similar concept to a rolling planeset.
I also said in my post announcing this setup that it would be a test of sorts for several different settings behind the scenes for radar and ship hardness. The test also includes the extension of the setup one additional week.
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Eagler - The setup this week is running based on many responses both public and private to my request for information on what you guys would like to see out of a setup.
That’s hardly surprising since the majority who live in the ct are in some sort of allied/navy squad.
Those who fly the ct occasionally and post even less just skip the crappy Pac set ups altogether.
Catering to a small portion of the entire AH player base (the so called “CT regulars”) won’t increase participation in the CT. Pac setups have always been out of balance in terms of numbers. Lots of allies; fewer axis.
The reason is that these setups are by far out of parity with regards to the plane set. Whether its "historical" or not makes no difference to a player who just wants to get a few fights in without being ganged by some bore and ZZZZZ "just flying smart" player. They can do that in the main while flying a more competitive plane.
With much fast planes and timid pilots it’s just to boring for the average player to suffer through.
Of the 20 guys in the CT 15 of umm love these setups, 5 don’t and anyone else who might have been interested in the CT looks at the match ups and says F'it and goes to the main. Pac set ups have always been that way since Sabre ran the first one.
The trick is to create a set up that considers not just the 15 but to make a set up as competitive as possible regardless of the whines. As HT said on the CT CM forum a long time ago. Never sacrifice game play for historical accuracy.
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Originally posted by Wotan
The trick is to create a set up that considers not just the 15 but to make a set up as competitive as possible regardless of the whines. As HT said on the CT CM forum a long time ago. Never sacrifice game play for historical accuracy.
You are exactly right Wotan. Pacific setups are not anywhere near what I or many others would like to see in this game and I hope the addition of the Frank will move us forward to changing that. Even though its only the beginning and not anywhere close to filling in the gaps.
My main point here is It seems everyone is not looking past their noses at what this setup represents. This weeks setup is plain and simple the beginning of a series of test settings (on my part) to see if extending the setups and changing some aspects of the arena setup will enhance gameplay. I will admit that I like a historical matchup any time but if I am not having fun I will not play the game.
Shameless thread hijack here:
So with that said what rumors have you heard about Pacific Fighters? Is it still on track to release later this summer/fall?
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reschke my puter moans looking at the screen shots.
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Originally posted by o0Stream140o
Eagler, Dennis do you guys fly IL-2 Online? Or just the box single player?
Stream
mainly the online thru hyperlobby though I am really bad at it I find it rewarding when I do get a kill after half a dozen sorties :)
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Originally posted by Wotan
That’s hardly surprising since the majority who live in the ct are in some sort of allied/navy squad.
Those who fly the ct occasionally and post even less just skip the crappy Pac set ups altogether.
Catering to a small portion of the entire AH player base (the so called “CT regulars”) won’t increase participation in the CT. Pac setups have always been out of balance in terms of numbers. Lots of allies; fewer axis.
The reason is that these setups are by far out of parity with regards to the plane set. Whether its "historical" or not makes no difference to a player who just wants to get a few fights in without being ganged by some bore and ZZZZZ "just flying smart" player. They can do that in the main while flying a more competitive plane.
With much fast planes and timid pilots it’s just to boring for the average player to suffer through.
Of the 20 guys in the CT 15 of umm love these setups, 5 don’t and anyone else who might have been interested in the CT looks at the match ups and says F'it and goes to the main. Pac set ups have always been that way since Sabre ran the first one.
The trick is to create a set up that considers not just the 15 but to make a set up as competitive as possible regardless of the whines. As HT said on the CT CM forum a long time ago. Never sacrifice game play for historical accuracy.
We've had very good numbers in the CT (relatively speaking for about a month now) Go gloom somewhere else.
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Whats a Pac thread without some "farm boi" comments from Batz?
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"Farm boi" transcends Batz.
Shameless thread hijack here:
So with that said what rumors have you heard about Pacific Fighters? Is it still on track to release later this summer/fall?
Reschke PF is on schedule AFAIK. I hear the carrier landings are no joke. But they will face the same issues that you face running a Pac set up in AH. The only difference there will be a wider variety of planes available for the Japanese player. The Air War in the Pacific was for the most part dominated by the US/Allies.
How do script a DF server that’s competitive if one side has dominant AC?
Even an online war or Coop will be hard to pull off without some creativity on the part of the Host. Much like the CT in AH.
Go gloom somewhere else.
Sorry Storch, I didn’t mean to steal your show. You do enough "gloomin'" for the rest of us. I will leave it to you.
Eagler,
Scot, JDW and I fly FB regularly during the week. We flew last night on Warclouds. Some of the JG14 guys from Warbirds flew with us. We had about 9 guys tearing up farm bois.
I have a TS server up for vox. If you see me on HL 4./JG53_Wotan send me a page and I will send you the TS ip and PW.
Its rough flying alone.
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Wotan,
I am getting IL2:FB reinstalled this week and should be ready to fly some later this weekend in FB. Can you shoot me the IP and password for the TS server.
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"That’s hardly surprising since the majority who live in the ct are in some sort of allied/navy squad.
Those who fly the ct occasionally and post even less just skip the crappy Pac set ups altogether.
Catering to a small portion of the entire AH player base (the so called “CT regulars”) won’t increase participation in the CT. Pac setups have always been out of balance in terms of numbers. Lots of allies; fewer axis."
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I didnt recall 100's of players in the CT when you and Brady were staffers?, so don't talk like you had all the answers. You had your turn at it. The #s were no better or worse.
As for a "navy squad" conspiracy?, save it. Most CT setups are still ETO/MED/EAST FRONT 44-45. Which is fine with us, we only asked for PAC to be in the rotation, nothing more.
The Thursday night missions have been a success because of the participation of the players you are slamming. We didnt need any staffers to organise it for us, and I didnt see you there, either.
Just another post from a "it has to have a 109 or I wont play" whiner, dressed up to look like it has some substance.
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Reschke, here is the BBS Fourm for Pacific Fighters... it has updates and information on it.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/6/ubb.x?a=frm&s=400102&f=26310365
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I didnt recall 100's of players in the CT when you and Brady were staffers?, so don't talk like you had all the answers. You had your turn at it. The #s were no better or worse.
Well if the Ct has 10% of the main then it’s a success as per HT. Whenever it falls below that at peak then it would considered less then successful.
Pac setups usually fall below this threshold. Okinawa and the Slot changed this some what early on. As the newness of the terrains wore off they became more typical.
Under this criteria yes some of my set ups failed miserably. I once tried a 109F-4 vs. Spit 5. Only 3 people showed up and they all upped spits. There was no base capture.
As for a "navy squad" conspiracy?, save it. Most CT setups are still ETO/MED/EAST FRONT 44-45. Which is fine with us, we only asked for PAC to be in the rotation, nothing more.
I never said anything about a conspiracy. You made that didn't you? There's no need to lie to make a point. What I said was in response to what Reschke said. Here since you cant follow the thread I will quote it for you:
Reschke
The setup this week is running based on many responses both public and private to my request for information on what you guys would like to see out of a setup.
Me
That’s hardly surprising since the majority who live in the ct are in some sort of allied/navy squad.
Those who fly the ct occasionally and post even less just skip the crappy Pac set ups altogether.
Do you dispute what I have said? A quick look at the CT tour scores and a review of the CT forum clearly shows the majority of CT regulars are in Navy / Marine or Allied squads.
If you think this means it’s a "conspiracy" then fine by me. But don't lie and say that I said or even implied that.
The Thursday night missions have been a success because of the participation of the players you are slamming. We didnt need any staffers to organise it for us, and I didnt see you there, either.
[/b]
Slamming? Maybe, but you already know what I think of you and yours so we need not revisit that. I am glad you had fun in your mission. Hazed used to do the same thing. He had a webpage up and everything. Participation was good at the beginning but waned. Maybe you have it figured out better then he did. You won't see me there for the very I reason I stated at the top of this paragraph.
Just another post from a "it has to have a 109 or I wont play" whiner, dressed up to look like it has some substance.
Once again you resort to outright lying. Please quote any where I have said I will only fly a CT set up that has 109s? I won't fly those either but please quote me at any point saying that.
The topic of this thread is:
Couple things that need to be done to make this setup suck even worse
It relates to the disparity in the plane set coupled with the timid nature of a good number of players especially when they are in much faster planes. For the player just wanting a quick series of fun fights it's pointless to join as axis because he will face twice his number of these type of players. He could join as allies but they already have numbers. So he heads to the main with out thinking twice about it.
You guys have one of the best dog fighters still in the game, Urchin. Some of you should take some CT time with him and learn a new trick or two. As much as he comes off as a hard arse he has always been willing to show folks a thing or two.
Anyway Good luck with all that.
Reschke I will send you the ip and pw. We all fly FB/AEP (Aces Expansion Pack) FB alone is not compatible with AEP. The current AEP version is 2.04. We all need the same version to be able to fly together.
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Originally posted by Wotan
You guys have one of the best dog fighters still in the game, Urchin. Some of you should take some CT time with him and learn a new trick or two. As much as he comes off as a hard arse he has always been willing to show folks a thing or two.
This is very true. We also have Shane, and Lev and Eskimo and Eagler and Splash and many others who visit here and will help us with our skills. The CT is an excellent place for this.
What I'm wondering, Wotan, is really two things. First, how come you don't fly here anymore, when you've obviously left a piece of yourself with us? Second, if you don't want to fly here, why would you want to denigrate the efforts of the staffers who still do?
Not a diss, it's a real question.
- oldman
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Wotan Sucks.
New bumper sticker?
I've never seen such a failure, choose to be such an intense "arm-chair quarterback" in my life.
Who cares what he thinks he's a has been, just like his Husband Brady.
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Originally posted by Wotan
Do you dispute what I have said? A quick look at the CT tour scores and a review of the CT forum clearly shows the majority of CT regulars are in Navy / Marine or Allied squads.
While that is true on the face of it, what this does not show is most of them regularly fly Axis, most notably VF-17, VF-27, and 880 Sqn. I would go so far as to say VF-17 and VF-27 as a group fly twice as many hours Axis as they do Allied.
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But grits on the oppsite, you have squads like 490thBG *Skulls &Wings*, and P6e's that really dont fly anything but allies.
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Originally posted by Wotan
Reschke I will send you the ip and pw. We all fly FB/AEP (Aces Expansion Pack) FB alone is not compatible with AEP. The current AEP version is 2.04. We all need the same version to be able to fly together.
I have AEP installed and will be updating it this week. Thanks Wotan.
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Originally posted by o0Stream140o
Reschke, here is the BBS Fourm for Pacific Fighters... it has updates and information on it.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/6/ubb.x?a=frm&s=400102&f=26310365
Thanks Stream I haven't been to the site since I formatted the hard drive and lost all my links due to the recent virus on the computer.
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
But grits on the oppsite, you have squads like 490thBG *Skulls &Wings*, and P6e's that really dont fly anything but allies.
That is true, some dont ever fly Axis, but the generalization of saying the majority of CT squads and players are Navy/Marine/Allied, while technically true, doesnt tell the whole story.
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
But grits on the oppsite, you have squads like 490thBG *Skulls &Wings*, and P6e's that really dont fly anything but allies.
Sorry but I flew LW and IJN for four years in WarBirds. I joined AH spacificly to fly the F4U.:)
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Originally posted by Oldman731
This is very true. We also have Shane, and Lev and Eskimo and Eagler and Splash and many others who visit here and will help us with our skills. The CT is an excellent place for this.
What I'm wondering, Wotan, is really two things. First, how come you don't fly here anymore, when you've obviously left a piece of yourself with us? Second, if you don't want to fly here, why would you want to denigrate the efforts of the staffers who still do?
Not a diss, it's a real question.
- oldman
No I haven't left any of me there. I just like an opportunity to poke a stick at the Pac War Mafia.
However, I haven't denigrated any staffer. Please point to where I said anything close to that. What I said was Pac set ups suck. They sucked when Brady did umm, they suck when the first one ran and they suck now. I gave my reasons:
1. Disparity in the plane set. Very well is "historical" which on its own is not that bad. Add the other 2 below and Pac setups become garbage.
2. Numbers disparity. Usually but not exclusively but combined with 1 and 3 they are not that fun.
3. Timidity on the part of some players. This is the main contributor to the lameness of Pac set ups. Add in the faster planes and it gets even worse.
With all those guys you listed you would figure that a few CT’rs would follow them about and see how they do it.
That has nothing to do with the staffers. I only think 1 staffer sucks arse but I would never say so who. Unlike the farm bois who have no qualms about insulting a "staffer". Some of them made a CT career out of it.
Please don't confuse me with them.
Here's my original post, please point out where I denigrated a staffer:
That’s hardly surprising since the majority who live in the ct are in some sort of allied/navy squad.
Those who fly the ct occasionally and post even less just skip the crappy Pac set ups altogether.
Catering to a small portion of the entire AH player base (the so called “CT regulars”) won’t increase participation in the CT. Pac setups have always been out of balance in terms of numbers. Lots of allies; fewer axis.
The reason is that these setups are by far out of parity with regards to the plane set. Whether its "historical" or not makes no difference to a player who just wants to get a few fights in without being ganged by some bore and ZZZZZ "just flying smart" player. They can do that in the main while flying a more competitive plane.
With much fast planes and timid pilots it’s just to boring for the average player to suffer through.
Of the 20 guys in the CT 15 of umm love these setups, 5 don’t and anyone else who might have been interested in the CT looks at the match ups and says F'it and goes to the main. Pac set ups have always been that way since Sabre ran the first one.
The trick is to create a set up that considers not just the 15 but to make a set up as competitive as possible regardless of the whines. As HT said on the CT CM forum a long time ago. Never sacrifice game play for historical accuracy.
It was just some friendly unsolicited advice. Take it with a grain of salt.
The only other post that has any thing close to negative in it is my reply to Squire.
Let's just say he and I aren’t friends and leave it at that.
The only other reply besides this one was PF / FB/ AEP related.
One of us has missed something. I will assume it was me and apologize to you if there's there that was misconstrued. I will see you another few months if a thread like this comes a long and I am so inclined as to comment on it. We both know it will. In the mean time have fun and don't mind me too much.
Bug, you running for something?
Reschke,
I misplaced your email addy. I transferred to Thunderbird and must have lost it. Send me one here.
Wotan@fw-190.com
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Email sent Wotan. Thanks
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Well, I guess since I precipitated this mud-slinging fest, I should probably clarify what I mean. I enjoy Pac setups. I think it makes a good break from the MA. However, I enjoy Pac setups with some kind of parity, which means early war (P-40 / F4F vs A6M2), or late war (which would be what we have currently, but with the Niki enabled. Yea, I know the niki is "easy mode" and all that... but it is the only plane that stands a chance against 3v1 bore n zoom odds. The A6MX has the manueverability to dodge people. but not the firepower to kill them, and the Ki-61 has the firepower to kill people, but not the manueverability to dodge them.
So if you are going to run a "late-war" Pac set-up (one where the F6F and F4U are enabled), you need the Niki to balance it out.
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Just wondering, but why not do a setup with a the F4F/P40 and the F4U-1 as a low cost perk ride? In early '43 in the Solomons F4Us were just starting to arrive and the F4F/P40 still played a big role in the defense of Guadalcanal. That way you can still have your F4U's for the allied guys, and give the Zero's something to do besides just dodging BnZ passes from the F4Us.
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We've done that before, but with the F4U not perked. I dont think perking it would help since we so rarely have perked rides that just about everyone has plenty to burn, although it couldnt hurt to try it.
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Well, just adjust the perk price as need to keep the numbers in line ... just as long as you have a sizeable chunk of the Americans flying the F4F/P-40 it should keep things more interesting for everyone.
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Originally posted by Reschke
I have AEP installed and will be updating it this week. Thanks Wotan.
Reschke,
If your interested we have a dedicated server if you want to pop in on Hyperlobby. Just use google and search for Hyperfighter.. and download the client. Our server is 325th_FG_Server... if your interested. We will be on there tonight.
Stream
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I support the low cost perk system, it works if you reset the perks, but every time it comes up all the MA whining starts about "my precious perk points, what did you to to them" and the CT staff wont reset them. If they aren't reset, a perk sys in the CT is utterly pointless.
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The perks aren't the problem in any of these setups. That is why we try to adjust aircraft availability by field instead of by points. I personally think that perks are a waste in the CT. I try to adjust the planes in a setup by base location and that is what I will be doing later tonight. I am also going to enable the Niki for Japan to give them their easy mode fighter.
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Well if you don't use perks you either end up in a situation where pilots have a choice between taking the F4F or F4U-1 and almost everyone opts for the better plane. Or you limit the F4U-1 to some rear field and no one takes it because they don't want to fly across the map to try and chase one bogey.
A Battle of Britain setup is another example where using perks could work well. Spitfires only made up about 1/6th of fighter command in Summer of 1940, but if you make both it and the Hurricane I available at no cost how many guys are going to be flying Hurricanes?
So getting back to our pacific scenario it's either mass seal clubbing by F4Us and F6Fs or you turn on the N1K2 - at which point is it really the Slot '43 anymore?
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Agree with Sable here.
Oh btw Spitfires made up 40 percent of Fighter Command, not 1/6th :) but i digress...
Personally, I think the perk sys in the CT worked really well when it was used in conjunction with a perk flush. F4U-1 at 4 pts say, Ki-61 at 2 pts, something like that, with A6M5 and P-40E/F4F as general rides would have worked well. It limits those who just roll and die from grabbing the best fighter every sortie, and thats the real point of it. I have seen the sys used at least twice in the CT, both times I thought it was a success. Why the CT staff has such a fobia of it I don't know.
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also guys considre perks take up skuzzy's time.
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THe problem with perks in the CT as I see it is (and there are two solutions that I can think of) regulars amass large quantities of perks over the weeks, yet to not completely exclude the new guys, or walk ons perk values are usually set relatively low. This isn't an effective limting factor on the high time players.
Course the flip side of that is that some may feel that people should be rewarded for spending large amount of time in, and supporting the CT. I do sympathize with that sentiment but at the same time I think we should be trying to welcome fresh blood into the arena and smacking down people who venture into the CT from the MA with high performance perk rides that they won't have as much access to is a step in the opposite direction.
The other option is an email to Skuzzy to reset everyones perk points to 0 thus players get to "earn" the better rides as the week goes on. Personally I perfer this approach but you'd be amazed at how many people throw a hissy fit over losing perk points that they never/rarely get to use anyway.
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Dudes we have had no problems killing F4Us and Kittys in a 3 allied v 1 zeke fight povided all the allies were low. Even then we have given them a run for the money if one was high. On the other side if a squaddie is on with me we have had no problems at all turning with the zekes and killing them. As long as the ratio is 1 v 1 or 2 hogs v 3 zekes. I don't see why all the nashing of teeth. This is easily one of the most fun planesets except for the ack.
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" I perfer this approach but you'd be amazed at how many people throw a hissy fit over losing perk points that they never/rarely get to use anyway."
You got that right.
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Reschke, Eagler we will be on HL tonight around 8:30 ish eastern.
My HL nic is 4./JG53_Wotan
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Originally posted by Wotan
Reschke, Eagler we will be on HL tonight around 8:30 ish eastern.
My HL nic is 4./JG53_Wotan
I'm on HL on but have to go run
I'll check in around 8:45 or so est
my HL nic is rookie_man :)
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I'm a CT lurker, having showed up a few times and died a few more than that. My best success came in BoB a month or so ago, when surprised myself by doing OK in a spit and then piling up assists in M16 vs low 88s. I have flow some pac sorties for the USN, both in the F4F plane set and in the current one.
I have a question for those many of you who apparently despise energy tactics -- why do you moan about the historical use of the aircraft?
WW2 US pilots were told to never slow down and to always maintain the advantage. This made sense with their equipment, which was generally high wing loaded, and it just makes sense for high wing loaded planes in AH.
Do you turners expect your opponents to up with half an ammo load, or with only one elevator? No? then why do you seem to expect energy fighters to fly at a hardware handicap by slowing to turnfight with you?
That's not being unaggressive; it seems to me that that's being smart. Isnt the whole point of ACM to understand your equipment, and use its advantages to outmaneuver your opponent?
I'd do more CT, but it just seems kinda elitist at times....
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Originally posted by Simaril
I'm a CT lurker, having showed up a few times and died a few more than that. My best success came in BoB a month or so ago, when surprised myself by doing OK in a spit and then piling up assists in M16 vs low 88s. I have flow some pac sorties for the USN, both in the F4F plane set and in the current one.
I have a question for those many of you who apparently despise energy tactics -- why do you moan about the historical use of the aircraft?
WW2 US pilots were told to never slow down and to always maintain the advantage. This made sense with their equipment, which was generally high wing loaded, and it just makes sense for high wing loaded planes in AH.
Do you turners expect your opponents to up with half an ammo load, or with only one elevator? No? then why do you seem to expect energy fighters to fly at a hardware handicap by slowing to turnfight with you?
That's not being unaggressive; it seems to me that that's being smart. Isnt the whole point of ACM to understand your equipment, and use its advantages to outmaneuver your opponent?
I'd do more CT, but it just seems kinda elitist at times....
You are witnessing the time honored and almost exclusively American tactic of smack talking. It was reported that Maj. Gregory Boyington would routinely goad the Japanese on Rabaul to "up" disadvantageously with his phenomenal smack talking skills. At one time after many losses at the hands of the 214th one Japanese controller was reported to have said "If you wish to fight us Maj. Boyington you are cleared to land at Rabaul". The thing is that we are not in a life or death struggle. We are playing a game. it seems beyond infantile to me that you would spend three hours online running away from fights. Unless I'm being ganged up on by 8 zekes in a corsair I'll turn and fight knowing full well I'm going to get killed......in the game. Hopefully though I'm improving my skills. Afterall I'm still a noob and have much to learn and doing is knowing. But you timid souls go ahead and run run run.
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Originally posted by storch
You are witnessing the time honored and almost exclusively American tactic of smack talking. It was reported that Maj. Gregory Boyington would routinely goad the Japanese on Rabaul to "up" disadvantageously with his phenomenal smack talking skills. At one time after many losses at the hands of the 214th one Japanese controller was reported to have said "If you wish to fight us Maj. Boyington you are cleared to land at Rabaul". The thing is that we are not in a life or death struggle. We are playing a game. it seems beyond infantile to me that you would spend three hours online running away from fights. Unless I'm being ganged up on by 8 zekes in a corsair I'll turn and fight knowing full well I'm going to get killed......in the game. Hopefully though I'm improving my skills. Afterall I'm still a noob and have much to learn and doing is knowing. But you timid souls go ahead and run run run.
I'm confused. Are you saying its just smack, or are you saying energy tactics can't be aggressive?
Last time I flew a corsair vs zekes in the Ct, the complaint was that USN players "kept coming with altitude and extend before you can get a shot." This jsut seems smart to me, not unaggressive. I'm not talking about not fighting, just about not TURN fighting against a plane with barn door airelons....
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Not saying that at all. What I am saying is that here comes player A and makes 4 or 5 lame BnZ passes which player B dodges with few if any pings taken. Player A then scurries away. If this were a RL situation it would be acceptable. This is not RL. Why not stay and fight? Even if player A did die. I find that when I'm in a Hog in the CT the fact that I turn into the zekes catches them off guard and I get the kill in the two turns I can successfully execute before extending to set him up again. In the hog I am currently F4U-1 8/6 the 1D 3/3. In the F6F I'm 6/8. a good number of the deaths were from ack not just my poor flying skills. What I can say is that in every one of those fights I gave the IJN opponent a shot at killing me and the result was fun for both irrespective of the outcome. Maybe the game could stand a few more players that give as well as take in the fun catergory. That's all I'm trying to say. Waddaya think?
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Storch: for me, I try to play as real a possible which means that I will often try to stay alive at all costs.
But when I fly with you: something takes hold. I become savage ... every tink must die... sometink happenz to me, zere is almoz notink dat I vouldn't do vit aut butz I zuzt kant putz mie finker on zit. Hmmm... zaa it'z I denke in Deutsches! Plötzlich: Würfel feind! Würfel feind! Schnell Würfel feind!
Wenn I Ende and lanz vor kilz, tingz zart to bekom norml againz and I zust tink that it's all inz my head. I zon't, but mayve it's just me. Aftkr minutz or zo, I start to relax and think normal again. Hmmm... :D
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
Storch: for me, I try to play as real a possible which means that I will often try to stay alive at all costs.
But when I fly with you: something takes hold. I become savage ... every tink must die... sometink happenz to me, zere is almoz notink dat I vouldn't do vit aut butz I zuzt kant putz mie finker on zit. Hmmm... zaa it'z I denke in Deutsches! Plötzlich: Würfel feind! Würfel feind! Schnell Würfel feind!
Wenn I Ende and lanz vor kilz, tingz zart to bekom norml againz and I zust tink that it's all inz my head. I zon't, but mayve it's just me. Aftkr minutz or zo, I start to relax and think normal again. Hmmm... :D
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
Storch: for me, I try to play as real a possible which means that I will often try to stay alive at all costs.
But that isn't real. It is only symptomatic of a game in which you have no orders and no goals that must be accomplished. According to you "realism", live at all costs guys you would never do a slow climbing attack on the Ju88As in your Hurri I because that would risk your life. You would never come to the aid of a wingman in distress because that would risk your ever-so-precious life. Thing is, those and many other "unrealistic" actions happened all through the war.
Given the timidity that many of you fly with you never would have been put in fighters. You'd have been flying B-17s or Lancasters. Nice sedate aircraft that go in pretty straight lines and don't require agressiveness.
You guys also have a habit of stating that you're being realistic by using these tactics. Does that mean that I can expect you to turn and burn in earlier 1942 setups against the Japanese because realisitically those orders hadn't gone out yet?
That's what I thought.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Given the timidity that many of you fly with you never would have been put in fighters. You'd have been flying B-17s or Lancasters. Nice sedate aircraft that go in pretty straight lines and don't require agressiveness.
Nope, your wrong Karnak, they would not have even given them buffs they have guns and bombs afterall, most would have been ferry pilots, or flying C47's or PBY's at best.
Simaril,
You are correct, energy[/b] fighting is not timid, but that is not what 99% do. Energy fighting entails rope-a-dopes, spiral climbs, extensive use of the verticle and other moves designed to take advantage of a plane like the F4U's strengths over the A6M, which is more than just pure speed, like its superior zoom ability.
What the majority do is nothing like that, what they do is "HO and very shallow extend" repeated endlessly. HO-and-extend or Joust-and-extend is not engery fighting, it IS[/b] extremely timid, and it shows the practitioner knows little/nothing of how to properly use their plane.
Just to clarify as I said earlier in the thread, this is not restricted to Pac setups, or in Allied pilots exclusively. As an example, the Axis do it too when the Allies best plane is a turner like the Spit V and the Axis have the 190A-5. The complaints are loudest in Pac setups because the performance gap is so much bigger, but it happens to some degree in nearly every setup.
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Originally posted by Karnak
But that isn't real. It is only symptomatic of a game in which you have no orders and no goals that must be accomplished. According to you "realism", live at all costs guys you would never do a slow climbing attack on the Ju88As in your Hurri I because that would risk your life. You would never come to the aid of a wingman in distress because that would risk your ever-so-precious life. Thing is, those and many other "unrealistic" actions happened all through the war.
Given the timidity that many of you fly with you never would have been put in fighters. You'd have been flying B-17s or Lancasters. Nice sedate aircraft that go in pretty straight lines and don't require agressiveness.
You guys also have a habit of stating that you're being realistic by using these tactics. Does that mean that I can expect you to turn and burn in earlier 1942 setups against the Japanese because realisitically those orders hadn't gone out yet?
That's what I thought.
You know that's an aspect that I hadn't considered. Also we must factor in the mores of the time period. Those guys were manly men. I am old enough to have known some WWII vets when they were in their 40's and 50's. Some of the one's I knew would clock your lights for impolite words, lawsuits be damned. They didn't seem at all timid to me.
You are exactly right Karnak, commonwealth forces were on standing orders to engage the Japanese. If a Commonwealth pilot was observed to run away from a fight it was a punishable offense.
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Originally posted by Grits
Nope, your wrong Karnak, they would not have even given them buffs they have guns and bombs afterall, most would have been ferry pilots, or flying C47's or PBY's at best.
Simaril,
You are correct, energy fighting is not timid, but that is not what 99% do. Energy fighting entails rope-a-dopes, spiral climbs, extensive use of the verticle and other moves designed to take advantage of a plane like the F4U's strengths over the A6M, which is more than just pure speed, like its superior zoom ability.
What the majority do is nothing like that, what they do is "HO and very shallow extend" repeated endlessly. HO-and-extend or Joust-and-extend is not engery fighting, it IS[/b] extremely timid, and it shows the practitioner knows little/nothing of how to properly use their plane.
Just to clarify as I said earlier in the thread, this is not restricted to Pac setups, or in Allied pilots exclusively. As an example, the Axis do it too when the Allies best plane is a turner like the Spit V and the Axis have the 190A-5. The complaints are loudest in Pac setups because the performance gap is so much bigger, but it happens to some degree in nearly every setup. [/B]
Slowly cooked cornmeal and tankman are very good E fighters and I wouldn't dare call either one of them timid. Other things yes timid no :D