Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lasse on March 17, 2000, 06:46:00 AM
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I am getting me self a new system, and I has been thinking of AMD 850 or 1Ghz.
I has always before choosen Intel based systems, but this time I am considering AMD.
But I has read something of really poor FPS with amd K6-2(3?) processors in AH, is this right, and does this count
for Athlon too, or is that an completely different processor in this matter ?
Or should I keep on my tradition of using Intel based computers ?
If anyone knows, please explain this for me in baby language so even I can understand the difference between
AMD 850 and Intel 850 when playing AH.
I am grateful for any advice
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The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-
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The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-
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K6 and Athlon are different processors. From all the tests in specialised sites, you can see that floating point performances of Athlon allow it to be an excellent performer in 3D graphics. This being said, I have no Athlon to check that myself ...
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http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/00q1/000314/ (http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/00q1/000314/)
I'd personaly recommend Intel when it comes to "Gaming"...
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Saw/Saintaw
Don't shoot ! I am only an observer......
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/dorasaw.gif)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
"Firepower Mate, that is what separates the men from the boys..."
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 03-17-2000).]
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I have an intel p3-500 and an athlon 600, the athlon kicks intels bellybutton in every catagory, even though its 100 mhz faster, it outperforms intel by a larger margin than that.
at 1600x1200 with my Riva Gforce card i get between 50 on runway, and 70 fps during flight. The intel can only manage a meager 33 on runway and high 40s in flight.
It is faster than that if I bump the res down to 1024x768 or so..but athlons are faster, period.
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Just IMHO I like Tom's site but he is a bit biased ;D I do like the feedback I have gotten from friends on the Athlon and have considered it for my next chip. It has been suggested that for now stay with 650-733 range and let the 1ghz come down in price. Also 1ghz will only be offered initially in package oem systems and not seperately till they get enough stockpile in either flavor.
Just MHO and $.02 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
S!
Rocket
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(http://www.reddragons.de/images/sig.jpg)
The Red Dragons
Fierce and Bold
With Honour and Courage
_______________________
www.reddragons.de (http://www.reddragons.de)
[This message has been edited by Rocket (edited 03-17-2000).]
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I'd stick to Intel for gaming.
FYI the Intel 1gig is out.
Mox
The Wrecking Crew
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If you want to kick intels bellybutton really hard, pick up K7 with a motherboard based on the new Via kx133 chipset (EPOX has one). With old AMD750 chipsets, intel has a very little advantage for gamming.
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then again....IA64 is comming out this Summer (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Saw/Saintaw
Don't shoot ! I am only an observer......
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/dorasaw.gif)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
"Firepower Mate, that is what separates the men from the boys..."
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 03-17-2000).]
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Interesting....interesting (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But, that VIA set, doesent that one has 200mhz FSB?
And that ram i assume is really expensive ?
But if I get this right, there is no big drawback if I get myself a Athlon 850 (and a VIA mainboard?
I am also gonna get me a GeForce 256 DDRam when I build the computer.
( I ALWAYS builds my own computers, that way I always know exactly what I get.)
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The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-
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Dammit Lasse you have too much money on your hands.Do yourself a favor and send me a check.
And if you choose AMD post back and let us know the framerate.
Also: http://www.grandeavenida.com/fps/index.cfm?Game=2 (http://www.grandeavenida.com/fps/index.cfm?Game=2)
Give my regards to Norway: I miss you all!
danish
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The RAM for the KX133 is not very expensive, look at prices here www.pricewatch.com (http://www.pricewatch.com) to get an idea.
Mox, good luck getting a 1 Ghz anything, but particularly an Intel. Try getting an Intel 800, thats almost impossible.
Right now I'd look at getting either an Athlon 700 with a KX133 chipset board or a Pentium III 733. The prices should be comparable, except for RAM, in which case the RDRAM for the Intel will cost 5 times as much.
I have a K6-III 450 and will be upgrading to an Athlon once they get the Cache imbedded and the interconnects are copper. This should be about mid year.
As for IA64, does Aces High support SSE2? No, didn't think so. The Thunderbird version of the Athlon will outperform IA64 on non-SSE2 opimized stuff by 10-30%. IA64 will outperform the Thunderbird version of the Athlon on SSE2 optimized stuff by about 100%. Mind you, many things will not be optimized, and any old, or already released stuff will not be SSE2 optimized.
Sisu
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You can use either the standard PC100 memory, or the PC133 memory on the KX133 chipset motherboards. I know because I am writting this post from one. I actually have both a 64 meg PC100 DIMM & a 128 meg PC133 DIMM in the motherboard and it works like a charm.
It is the Intel Chipsets (i820 and i840) that require the ultra expensive RDRAM memory that everyone is thinking about.
Also you need to think about cost.
Athlon 700 = $255 US
Intel PIII 700 = $450-$500 US depending on which version you get.
Plus availability is a real problem right now with the high end Intel chips, while Athlon chips are quite easy to find. Intel will not be selling their 1Ghz chips to anyone but their OEMS (gotta buy complete systems), until 3rd quarter of this year.
Just a couple of things to think about
Oh yeah, I bought the Athlon 700 and am running it on the Epox EP-7KXA motherboard which has the VIA KX133 chipset.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Desperately trying to figure out why Kamikaze Pilots wore helmets"
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The magazine Computor Gaming World has and article on this every month. This article basically described two systems. One is top of the heap/best possible, the other is very good but with cost/perfomance in mind.
The components for these systems are picked for performance, availability, reliability and ease of installation.
Check it out. The writter for the article keeps it very current monthly.
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
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I use an Athlon 700 Asus k7m mb. It smokes, absolutely rocks. Stable, and performs like a champ. I was a little worried about going the amd route this time but for the speed I have at the price I bought it, WOW! Intel is still nice but speed for speed amd is the way to go. Plus mine is still the old chipset to, just got the latest mb drivers and a nice steady 50-60 fps hi res 1024 on a tnt2.
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Dnil
902nd Immortal Jaguars
Part time aircraft restorer. www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer (http://www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer)
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Ok, danish, Ill send you a check.....wait...hmm cant find my check book, guess you will have to wait (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
As you know danish, I build and sell these tings for a living, so I get it rather cheap (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (everything is relative u know)
It looks like Im going for AMD, cheapest, easiest to get my hands on, and currently the highest mhz that I actually can buy.
But its gonna be 2-3 weeks more until I buy it, so Ill read all info I can find on the topic.
We miss you too danish (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
You are welcome back to Norway and The Wild Vikings anytime danish (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-
[This message has been edited by lasse (edited 03-17-2000).]
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err... ummm... PIII 450 with Viper770 - never seen FPS lower than 30 - high 40s is a norm. I ran it at 500 (504) and 600 (598) - no sweat but I didn't see much point in forcing the system if there's no real (visual) difference between 35 and 135 FPS...
But if you have to have that "latest and greatest" - why not? Somebody has to buy all this crap coming out every month or so...
p.s. icons in 1600x1200 are just as ugly (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif).
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-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF
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I know lynx, I am flying in 1600x1200 today with my current system (fps 15-30).
And yes you are right, I am one of those `dorks` that just MUST have the latest, just cant help it,I just must have, must have, must have (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
Hirr hirr hirr (http://home.sol.no/~laerga/disturbed.gif)
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The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-
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I Have a AMD K6/2-400 with a TNT-2 & 128Meg RAM. I get 25-40 FPS depending on scene. Movies are around 25 FPS to give you an idea. More FPS isn't allways better!
The difference between K6 and K7 (Athlon) are HUGE, they are totally different design, a completetly diffent class of processor.
The difference Between K6-2 and a K6-3 is the K6-3 has a very good Cache design (important for graphics) It is on par with Pentium IIIs of eqaul clock speed. The K6-2 has a fairly bad cache design and a not so good floating point unit. Which makes them slightly inferior to a celeron of similar clock speeds. They are now doing 550 K6-2 and they have dropped the K6-3, so maybe K6-2 have been improved.
If you have the money dont get a K6 they're ok, but not speed deamons.
As for intel vs Athlon, there aint much real difference. The Athlon can run the FSB at 200 Mhz (twice that of an intel) but good luck finding RAM that runs at that speed.
I think the Athlon is a superior chip with a better FPU and Cache - especially when you consider its alot cheaper for the same bang.
If i was you id get a slightly slower chip and spend the rest of the money on a good video card (spelt 'G-Force Pro') and at least 128 Meg of RAM - 256 if ya wanna play with power (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) An athlon 700 will outperform and 800 if it has more memory and a good video card. I dont play the clock speed game, its a ploy to get you to spend more. Performance in games (3D) comes from a good FPU, Cache, RAM and an adequate clocked chip.
Have a good think about it. Purchase more RAM and the Best video card over clock speed - you wont regret it.
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Supreme Mega-Overlord Spatula
"...perfect for serving"
=357th Pony Express=
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yup true movies are 25fps but real life happens at an outstanding 60fps or so for true motion capture
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Umm, I work for a hardware distributor. While I hear a lot of people who say how much they love the K7 I hear roughly 4:1 who are really really disappointed in it.
I'm suprised some of you guys actually got the K7 going with the Geforce, there were truckloads of issues with them early on.
I also have one friend who is even more of a speed fiend than me, he has a P3-750 overlocked to 8something and he says it kicks his K7s butt like a hawg chewing on a spit. He has around 4 K7s he has bought and decided they sucked so threw them into work as web servers - so its not like he didn't really try.
Personally I've gone for the Piii-600 with 133Mhz SDRAM (Asus VIA) and Geforce DDR option. The K7 with the DDR-SDRAM may be fast but I think 133Mhz is going to be a lot more 'economically viable'.
BTW, its true the Geforce is not as fast as TNT2 in AH (unless ur running over 1280 res), but wait until HT impliments night flying with hardware light sourced searchlights and ack <g>.
My recommendation, go Intel CPU, either a VIA or BX board (ie, not 820), and if your budget can't push it TNT2 (if it can Geforce).
-vlkn- in
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Vulcan, the AMD 750 chipset has some problems with the GeForce. Via's KX133 on the other hand using an Athlon 800 and a Geforce wiped the floor with the Pentium III 800 using the same GeForce. The Athlon itself has no problem with any card. The AMD 750 chipset has quite a few problems.
Like Vulcan, I too work with computer hardware.
Sisu
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Yeah Sisu I know that. But we haven't had our hands on the new VIA KX133s yet. Asus are shipping us samples this week.
Until I saw some people locally hugging (or throwing them out windows) the new boards I didn't want to comment. I heard a lot of people offshore raving early on about the K-7 (with the AMD chipset) only to hear what a lemon it was later. So the new board might be good but I would like to hear/see it in action.
BTW, downloaded the latest Geforce/VIA drivers last night and upp'd my framerate by around 25%.
Heheheh.
-vlkn- in.
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Thanks for all the advices, lots of interesting stuff here.
I am gonna buy tha ASUS V6800 Geforce 256 DDRam, that is 100%.
And as I said earlier I was almost shure I was going for AMD, but now I am even more in doubt what to do (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But I has learned one thing so far, If I get an AMD it HAS to be on a VIA motherboard, right ?
But is there a VIA chipset for Intel too?
Is there any of you guys that actually has a 733\750\800\850 AMD on a VIA motherboard with a GeForce DDR, and if so, what are your FPS in 1600x1200 ?
With a 21" Monitor with a 30" Fresnel lens, that is the only resolution I use.
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The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-
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Wow, lot of good stuf here. My 2 cents not much different. I don't work in puter bz but can have anything I want (35 workstation,6 servers in my bz) in fact my old AMD 450 k-2 is sitting here as my work station. I recently (well not in puter time) upgraded to P3 500 on 820 board (only intel avail then) with a 3D prophet.
As a long time AMD fan I'm glad to see that they've finally "arrived" but I've held of on pulling trigger on the K-7. Based on what I see/hear the P3+ is close to the K-7 in performance and the pricing is pretty close.
If your using the computer for other games then I'd buy the best rig for the $'s treating the CPU's as equals...BUT...if your building a AH specific system then anything beyond a 600 is a waste in either flavor. I think that over the next year some truely serious upgrades will be made..what for I dont know (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Till then your extra horses wont show in AH. With the $ multiplier you gain each month you'd get double the power for same $$'s after christmas.
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Lasse, yes there is a Via chipset for Intel that uses PC133 RAM, but I haven't heard really good things about its performance. To my knowledge, the Intel BX chipset is still the best bet for Intel chips.
If you get an Athlon (which I recomend, but if you wait a week I'll be able to tell you what my roommate and another friend's experience is) get a board with the Via KX133 chipset (which both of them did).
Vulcan, my handle is Karnak. Sisu is a finnish word which means roughly, "what must be done, will be, reguardless of the cost". (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Sisu
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Lasse, I am running an Athlon 700 on a Epox EP-7KXA motherboard (KX133 chipset), with a Guillemont 3D Prophet SDR card.
And no, none of the system is really optimized on my computer yet (ie no tweaking) since I've only had it a week.
You guys keep comparing broad ranges of framerates (ie people saying "I get xx's fps") without any consistent way to compare.
Without a standard test method, your comparisons aren't very accurate.
Me? I typically run my system in 1024x768 in 32 bit color.
I get anywhere from the high 40's in most cockpit views right over a busy airfield, to more typical 50's and 60's elsewhere. Hell, I could legitamately claim I get 100fps, at least when I look straight up.
So take that as you will (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Me I will wait til someone developes a consistent accurate fps load test (like in WB's) before I will feel comfortable in comparing systems.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Desperately trying to figure out why Kamikaze Pilots wore helmets"
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Karnak sorry bout the handle thing dude...
I have one of those new VIA boards and it rocks. The only situation where the BX beats it is if the BX is seriously overclocked (ie, run at 133Mhz). Unfortunately this also means overclocked the AGP bus to 89Mhz. The BX also doesn't have Ultra DMA66 (yes the VIA does have it despite what some sites say) and 4X AGP.
So when I did my upgrade, the choice was keep my BX board, use PC133 RAM, overclock the board and AGP card.
Instead I went the VIA way and it rocks, it is very very fast. You must have the latest VIA drivers installed to see the performance.
But: I have hit a snag, 32bit mode on AH goes to pieces, gets all jerky etc. Its very wierd. Nothing else has this problem.
-vlkn- in.