Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ohio330 on August 16, 2004, 11:03:32 AM
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Since there is a post in favor of the new system, there aught to be one against it. I do not like the new system, and will not
go into it, as it will only be considered a "whine" anyways.
What really should be done is for HT to do an actual pole.
I'm up for a democratic-style voting system here. If more
people are in favor of the system, I'll respect that and keep my mouth shut.
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Is the ENY-thing worse than the horde-thing for you? Not a flame, just curious, to me neither one indicates soemthing is broken.
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I would go into the reasons for it, but it seems, at this point, that
anything that upsets someone about the recent patch, it just
gets flamed anyways. Im posting my dislike in general and hope HT does a democratic-style voting to either keep or remove
the recent patch.
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I have to concerns aboutthe new system:
1) The inability to defend HQ with Me163s
2) The ability for teh other countries to up Temps and @62s and we have no way of getting rid of them.
Take a way La7s and P51ds, that just makes my 190A5 that much more powerful, but don't restrict the perk planes.
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Originally posted by JB42
I have to concerns aboutthe new system:
1) The inability to defend HQ with Me163s
2) The ability for teh other countries to up Temps and @62s and we have no way of getting rid of them.
Take a way La7s and P51ds, that just makes my 190A5 that much more powerful, but don't restrict the perk planes.
I agree with you here 42, I think that the perk planes should always be enabled. We are already penalized a higher perk value for them if we outnumber another country, so the inability to fly them seems to just undermine the other balancing technique. If not all the perk planes, then at least the 163s should be enabled because you can only fly them from one base anyway.
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Originally posted by Ohio330
I would go into the reasons for it, but it seems, at this point, that
anything that upsets someone about the recent patch, it just
gets flamed anyways. Im posting my dislike in general and hope HT does a democratic-style voting to either keep or remove
the recent patch.
Two things.
First, if you posted in a reasonable manner what you disliked about the current solution, I do not think you would be flamed. Stomping your feet and throwing a bbs tantrum, however, would.
Second, AH is not run as a democracy. How could that work? Here is the problem; team A vastly outnumbers team B & C. Let's vote on a solution that must have repercussons for A in order to make the game more enjoyable for those on team B & C. Since A has the most votes, could they do this? Could they vote for what is best for the arena in general and against what is better for them as a group?
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Originally posted by Furious
Two things.
First, if you posted in a reasonable manner what you disliked about the current solution, I do not think you would be flamed. Stomping your feet and throwing a bbs tantrum, however, would.
Second, AH is not run as a democracy. How could that work? Here is the problem; team A vastly outnumbers team B & C. Let's vote on a solution that must have repercussons for A in order to make the game more enjoyable for those on team B & C. Since A has the most votes, could they do this? Could they vote for what is best for the arena in general and against what is better for them as a group?
I see your point regarding the vote thing,and I see that would'nt work either. Secondly, I have my opinions, and don't feel the need to justify them in an open forum. If HTC wants to know a detailed reason for my opinion, I will e-mail them directly.
Everyone has their own opinions, and many ideas have been hashed out, but we still have not agreed to what would work.
Giving my opinion is not going to change what other gamers have
decided already. Its up to HT to hear how ppl feel whether this new patch is doing more harm than good, or the other way around.
Its really sad, though, I don't think there is going to ever be
a solution that makes most of us happy.
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I
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Originally posted by Ohio330
...Its up to HT to hear how ppl feel whether this new patch is doing more harm than good, or the other way around...
We have had imbalance in the arena before. There must be something different this time. With all the work HTC has left to do the get TOD and additions to AH2 up, something must have made it urgent to fix this problem. Something to make the fallout over this decision worth it.
It's funny, the folks whom have held the advantage most recently are the most vocal against this change and some have threatened to leave. Maybe the other folks that had gotten tired of always getting beat down had already left.
So, maybe this patch is HT responding to how people feel. It's just not a response that favours those who do not wish to lose their advantage.
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Originally posted by Ohio330
Secondly, I have my opinions, and don't feel the need to justify them in an open forum.
I didn't ask for you to justify your opinions, I just asked if you dislike the ENY thing more than the numbers imbalance that brought it about.
Of course you don't have to answer that if you don't want to. But I figure if you want people to post here in agreement that the new ENY limiting thing is a bad thing you should at least answer that question to yourself.
Personally speaking I think there's more whinning about the ENY thing than the numbers imbalance. But I also realize this BBS is not a good indicator of the MA population at large, it is more an indicator of how many people are bored at work :D
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Ok, I do have an ENY problem.. hordes can be a prob as well, i know this.. I just don't think HT is fixing this problem by the way
they are addressing it now. There is really no secret to my opinions, as they reflect a culmination of what has aready been voiced PRIOR to their institution of this patch (which i did voice
during Hightech's original post)
I'm also at a loss as to make things better. And yes, I AM a rook
All I'm basically saying is the present patch isn't working. I will
voice one new opinion which I've noticed last night. Some say,
"bout time the number's were more even. " Well, that was true
of last night. Only one prob. Rooks were limited to their
plane sets as our HQ was constantly being overrun. Roughly even numbers in that case didn't seem to spell out "fairness".
The balancing attempt by HT seems a little harsh as it stands.
Oh, and one other thing. I don't really want to switch sides,
but if I do come to this decision.. I will probably be attacking
the side that I know is limited in plane sets. If this is happening
in the minds of other players already, this will lead to TWO
countries pouncing on the weaker.
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as of now i do not like it.
my account my ride on the outcome of this new patch
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Hate---
I think perking the aircraft are a better solution. I don't think bombers should ever be denied and certainly not the 163 for HQ defense.
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Originally posted by roofer
as of now i do not like it.
my account my ride on the outcome of this new patch
If it stays the way it is, I wont keep paying
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ILIKEIT!
oh wait im in the ladies room.......
again ;->
How about right here on this counter top? It
could be comfortable.
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What new system? :)
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Perk planes really shouldn't be included in the balancer. Perk plane costs are already influenced by arena odds and to include them in this is simply double dipping them.
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LOL X2lee
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Personally the jury is still out on the new ENY system. The system does not generally affect my choice on plane since I fly the F6F most the time, while occasionally dabbling in the rest of the planeset.
Here's a potential issue... and I say potential because I don't think the new system has been in place long enough to see any general trends in gameplay this is merely a (potentially unfounded) concern of mine.
For someone flying for the outnumbered country and I know my opponents do not have access to La7's, P-51's, etc... that is exactly what will be flown more often. Because there would be the realization that the country with the most people won't have anything that can chase them down. Result is more "timid" flying more running and a very bored Soulyss trying to catch them in his clunker of a F6F. I will admit that I'm pretty much a furballer at heart. I don't really care about winning the war, score, or anything else. If I can log on find a good aerial battle I log off at the end of the night content and happy. Chasing P-51's and La7's all night does not fit that criteria. Which seems like I've been doing more and more last couple nights. I dunno if it's coincidence... sometimes you have good nights sometimes bad and it's too early as I mentioned to pin it all on the new ENY system. But the concern is definetly lingering int he back of my head.
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Post
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:(
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Originally posted by Furious
Two things.
First, if you posted in a reasonable manner what you disliked about the current solution, I do not think you would be flamed. Stomping your feet and throwing a bbs tantrum, however, would.
Second, AH is not run as a democracy. How could that work? Here is the problem; team A vastly outnumbers team B & C. Let's vote on a solution that must have repercussons for A in order to make the game more enjoyable for those on team B & C. Since A has the most votes, could they do this? Could they vote for what is best for the arena in general and against what is better for them as a group?
BS hahahaha, i very much dislike the new system
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Here is one less reason to hate it.
Originally posted by hitech
As to the 163 and perk planes the 163 will definetly be excluded and im favoring the idea of all perks to be excluded from the eny system.
HiTech
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I extremely diskile it, :(
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when i can't fly p38 i log out
it's very disapointing for the litle time i can fly.
:mad: :mad:
no early type p38's
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Makes setting up missions IMPOSSIBLE, as planes avalability comes and goes with the wind, and screws over squads that fly one plane exclusively. Most top aces fly 1 or 2 planes 95% of the time....and the new system can dig DEEP into the plane pool, and you may really tick off the most loyal base.
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Wouldnt an RPS have been better?
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Make up your mind DragOOn..
At First you hated it, now you hate it? which is is? quit flipflopping .... either hate it or hate it ...lmao!!! J/K ... ahem.....
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oh
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
when i can't fly p38 i log out
it's very disapointing for the litle time i can fly.
:mad: :mad:
no early type p38's
So why not jump to Knits and fly it?
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After the first day I found it doesn't seem to effect me - mostly fly planes with eny of 20 or higher so no big deal really....
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Originally posted by DipStick
So why not jump to Knits and fly it?
Okay, honest, reasonable questions here.
Why should HE have to?
To make YOU happy?
Is that REALLY fair?
Is the happiness of one loyal customer of any higher value than that of another equally loyal customer?
I'm being absolutely serious here, it isn't a whine, or a complaint.
I honestly want to know if people really think it is fair to force, coerce, or otherwise practically require some customers to change the way they play to make others happy?
Is it really fair to force another customer to change how he plays when he spends the same $15 as you?
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Okay, honest, reasonable questions here.
Why should HE have to?
To make YOU happy?
Is that REALLY fair?
Is the happiness of one loyal customer of any higher value than that of another equally loyal customer?
I'm being absolutely serious here, it isn't a whine, or a complaint.
I honestly want to know if people really think it is fair to force, coerce, or otherwise practically require some customers to change the way they play to make others happy?
Is it really fair to force another customer to change how he plays when he spends the same $15 as you?
If your not going to place an outright control on the #'s then you need another method to help achieve balance in the Arena. The 'plane restrictor' does that to a degree. It is a question of balance & fairness to the WHOLE arena. After flying for the 1st time last night (happened to be ROOK) I think it's a great idea. As I've said elsewhere it has really no effect on score or performance, pilot ability still 80%+ of the equation.
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Virgil: To quote spoke, the needs of the many out way the needs of the few.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Is it really fair to force another customer to change how he plays when he spends the same $15 as you?
The changes affect everyone universally. So long as you're on the side with numbers and fly a low ENY plane, you're going to face plane limitations.
Unfair would mean applying these rule changes to just one side all the time without regard to the numbers on other teams. As it is, you have the means available to you to fly whatever you like but choose otherwise. That is not unfair.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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im sorry dipstick........:lol
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I dislike it _ a lot
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i havent found anything wrong but ENY disable havent even had a ram that people talk about.......oh yeah and i have been dying also thats another thing
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I extremely Dislike it!
Game tweaking leads to more game tweaking!
AH1 to AH2 - Towns were made bigger and harder requiring more cooperation.
Fuel Porkage - The natural Predator to the Steam-Roller, eliminated.
Planetside style balancing to counteract all of the above now eliminates Resets. The war IS over and no one can win. >>Enter Quakebirds.
It should have been left alone from the beginning and the sides would have self balanced as they have done many times in the past.
Retro all of the above Please!
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Originally posted by hitech
Virgil: To quote spoke, the needs of the many out way the needs of the few.
The new system is not a happy thing for me.
I don't like being limited to a certain plane set, or not being able to roll a panzer. When the ENY gets so off that I have to defend a base against tigers in an m8, can't bomb with a b17, or I cant roll a corsair off a cv at a base, or have to dogfight LA7's in a 35 ENY plane, then that seems to me to be a penalty, certianly not an incentive. Everyone keeps saying there was a problem with horading, well so what? Tell your friends to get on here and play for your country, or try to organize an offensive, wait a week or two and watch the numbers slide another way, as they always have. There was no problem, but now, there is IMO.
I still say leave it to the two weekers to balance the arena, when a two weeker signs in, send them to the weakest team. Tell them one of the benefits of subscribing is being able to fly any country, or to join a squad. Then you have INCENTIVE, not LIMITATION. If Someone wants to change countries, send them to lowest #'s. Limiting what planes I can fly cause So-and So's Squad is having their squad night, or cause I like to play early AM is Facism.
I think you mean Spock btw HT, Dr. Spcok earlier on in his Career. :D
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Edit for profanity.
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So far, I have not logged, or switched sides or quit when planes are not available. It is an annoance, frustrating, and lessens my enjoyment of this game. It sounds like it will not be getting better any time soon.
Gunner
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Originally posted by hitech
Virgil: To quote spoke, the needs of the many out way the needs of the few.
they sure do:D if you add up all the bishops and all the knights and compare it to the number of the rooks......well lets just say the needs of the many DID outweigh the needs of the few. seems a little one sided IMO
sorry im on my la7 withdraw rag or somejunk and stuff.:(
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Edit for flaiming
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NONE OF THE P38 DRIVERS IS HAPPY WITH IT
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
i'm not going knits or rooks because some switch ***** scewd the numbers
Then quit complaining that HTC hasn't made early model P-38s for you to fly. The solution to your dilemma sits right in front of your face -- changing sides -- and you refuse to do it.
That is your choice, and you'll just have to suffer the consequences because of it.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
The solution to your dilemma sits right in front of your face -- changing sides -- and you refuse to do it.
levi some of us believe in loyalty, I have flown knights now for three and half years, and I enjoy flying with my 'friends'. Just because you like to switch around and have no sense of loyalty doesn't mean everybody else wants to. I have spent three years killing filthy bishrook, am not about to swell their ranks. The solution to this problem is to quit catering to BB whimpers. It has taken this game down, we can't pork fuel now because of them, fuel burn rate is totally ridiculous, and now our plane sets available are limited cause of crying about #'s. When does it stop? What's next, disabling ho shots?
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Originally posted by twitchy
levi some of us believe in loyalty, I have flown knights now for three and half years, and I enjoy flying with my 'friends'. Just because you like to switch around and have no sense of loyalty doesn't mean everybody else wants to.
[/b]
And thus you make a choice to continue flying for a side with enough of a numbers imbalance that the system disables your favorite plane. But realize that it is, ultimately, your choice and nothing else. Your immutable loyalty to a virtual social constuct is the problem here, not the side-balancing system.
Don't even try to paint side "loyalty" as some kind of moral issue. Pathetic.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
NONE OF THE P38 DRIVERS IS HAPPY WITH IT
Really? None?
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Originally posted by twitchy
levi some of us believe in loyalty, I have flown knights now for three and half years, and I enjoy flying with my 'friends'. Just because you like to switch around and have no sense of loyalty doesn't mean everybody else wants to.
If I remember correctly levi has been flying for going on 9 years. No doubt he can enjoy flying with his 'friends' anywhere he flies. That being the case I dont quite see where he has no sense of loyalty if he can fly with friends anywhere he goes. I get the impression your sense of loyalty is not making new friends.
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Levi loves the spit and got many models to choose from.
u don't know what i'm talkin about
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
Levi loves the spit and got many models to choose from.
The Spit IX has a lower ENY than the Spit V I normally fly, and the Seafire has an ENY roughly the same. So if the Spit V goes, I'm only left with the Spit I. No thanks.
Instead, I'd go fly some other fun planes like the Tiffie, the 109F/G2, the 190A5/8, or maybe even tool around in a P-40 for awhile. It's all good. And if I felt a real need to fly the Spit V for some ungodly reason, I'd switch sides to do it.
So where is the problem here? You're doing two things that fuel your angst. First, you refuse to consider flying something other than a P-38. Then you refuse to consider changing countries so you can fly it. You ignore two perfectly fine options and then complain that HTC is being unreasonable?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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again i didn't asked for the system i didn't switch
and if i switch there is still the same danger.
i fly the p38 It my money to do that.
strangly the D9 even got an higher envy factor while it outpeforms the p38 in every aspect except turning.
but ill grab an A20 next time
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Don't even try to paint side "loyalty" as some kind of moral issue. Pathetic. [/B]
You don't seem to understand the fact that the countries in AH are more than icons, it represents a group. Friends. Countrymen. Loyalty to this group is natural, and the spirit of competition it invokes is perfectly natural. I have flown with these guys years, and most of my squad has flown with Knights for years. What is pathetic is being told the solution to the ENY problem is for us to have to loose this sense of loyalty in order to fly the planes we want to fly. Call me crazy or pathetic if you will, but loyalty is what takes bases, wins resets, and pays subscriptions. You and murdr don't seem to mind flip flopping around from country to country, and that is fine for you guys, but to alot of us, it's kinda Fink-ish. I would go so far as to say treacherous. I am of the school of thought that if you switch sides, you should loose your rank and perks; that loyalty to the country you fly for should be encouraged. Otherwise, why have different countries at all?
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Originally posted by twitchy
...You and murdr don't seem to mind flip flopping around from country to country, and that is fine for you guys, but to alot of us, it's kinda Fink-ish. I would go so far as to say treacherous. I am of the school of thought that if you switch sides, you should loose your rank and perks; that loyalty to the country you fly for should be encouraged. Otherwise, why have different countries at all?
LOL, that's over the top funay.
...and I agree, why have countries at all?
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Originally posted by twitchy
You don't seem to understand the fact that the countries in AH are more than icons, it represents a group. Friends. Countrymen. Loyalty to this group is natural, and the spirit of competition it invokes is perfectly natural.
One community. Not three countries.
Originally posted by twitchy
Otherwise, why have different countries at all?
Because we belong to a single community that wants to play a game.
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Originally posted by phookat
One community. Not three countries.
Because we belong to a single community that wants to play a game.
One community? No there are three communities that exsist within one game. When last I looked, the goal of the game we all play was to kill the other countries.
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Originally posted by twitchy
One community? No there are three communities that exsist within one game. When last I looked, the goal of the game we all play was to kill the other countries.
Try to think of it differently. It will make this whole thing easier for you.
The countries aren't real--they are artificial constructs designed to create a game. That is all. Just because the goal of the game is to kill the other country, doesn't mean they are your enemies. Any more than your opponents in Parcheesi are your enemies. When you play Charades, do you feel "loyal" to your game partner? Do you feel a sense of "betrayal" when you switch partners to play another round?
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Originally posted by phookat
Try to think of it differently. It will make this whole thing easier for you.
The countries aren't real--they are artificial constructs designed to create a game. That is all. Just because the goal of the game is to kill the other country, doesn't mean they are your enemies. Any more than your opponents in Parcheesi are your enemies. When you play Charades, do you feel "loyal" to your game partner? Do you feel a sense of "betrayal" when you switch partners to play another round?
After flying with them for over three years, you darn right I do. :aok
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Welp, when you have an enmy tiger on your field and all you can
up is a panzer, you're going to die ALOT.
Guess the bottom line is, it's HT's sim and he's going to do as he
darn well pleases.
SCDR
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Originally posted by phookat
One community. Not three countries.
Because we belong to a single community that wants to play a game.
Do it, HT -- like you said you were considering. Require players to switch to another country at the end of tour -- it will help break the artificial barriers and get teh community to know each other instead of despise each other.
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Originally posted by Simaril
Do it, HT -- like you said you were considering. Require players to switch to another country at the end of tour -- it will help break the artificial barriers and get teh community to know each other instead of despise each other.
Oh yeah that would go over real well.....
like a lead balloon.:lol
SCDR
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In addition to that, at the first tour change that you require the switch change all the names of the countries like mentioned somewhere else so there is no lingering country loyalty.