Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ghosth on August 20, 2004, 06:53:46 AM
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Seriously, how many of you who are so upset about the change have been here 2 years or more. How many of you have expeienced changes from HTC first hand other than this one??
AH has been basicly pretty stagnant the last 2 years as the staff worked on AH2.
No major sweeping changes, no new planes, just business as usuall.
Thats fine if thats what you have come to expect.
But those of use who have been here since the early beta days KNOW that change comes in big jumps around here.
One day its quiet, next day there is a post in the news forum & hey presto, we have tanks where there were none before.
Or Hanger strength goes from 1k each to 2500k as a direct result of one side shutting down gameplay for another.
(Bish used to shut down the entire map!)
So this change is normal for us. Its a GOOD SIGN! GOD is not dead, he has his finger on the pulse of the AH community. He is back in the game, watching, seeing, fixing.
Now I admit this can be a bit upsetting if your not used to it. After all this is not a democracy. This is Hitech's Domain.
He RULES here.
Thats ok with me, because he rules fairly for all.
So for all you people with your undies in a bunch, some quick advise.
Shut up, quit posting, quit whining.
FLY
At the end of the month ask yourself.
Was that really so bad?
Do I want to continue?
Or would I rather walk away?
The rest of us will be here in the meantime.
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Well said, Ghosth.
DmdMax
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Been here 4 years.
Been through lots of changes and willing to see how it all works out.
Did you ever consider that as a business owner HT might want to hear how people are feeling as he makes changes?
Just a thought.
We pay our money, it's our time to spend. If we wanna post let us post. You don't have to read it.
So go FLY and ask youself...
Why did I spend my time telling people to stop posting when I could have been flying?
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Been here three years.
Come on over to Rooks ghost and fly there for a couple of months, then tell me to stop posting.
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yeah yeah the only good and decent people fly , they are more mature and have more money too. The other teams are garbage so what if the whinnin bastages on the other team don't get to play, it's their fault cause they not good enough etc etc.
It's an old tune, pre-dates this game many years.
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whatis your in game i.d. baine1???
always wondered why people would not provide that information when they post.
Oh, and re. Ghosth, been here 2yrs, and only really was upset when I could not up a panzer, or 163 due to eny. It happened in the wee hours, and HT resolved that issue with the 140 player cap, and 15 eny of 163. Woot! go HT!
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Originally posted by Ghosth
This is Hitech's Domain.
He RULES here.
Thats ok with me, because he rules fairly for all.
So for all you people with your undies in a bunch, some quick advise.
Shut up, quit posting, quit whining.
FLY
I dont envy any of the HTC staff. Dealing with everyone of all sides has got to be nothing less then a major PIA.
I dont know of which side of the fence you sit or even if you care one way or the other. But to the "quit whining"
Before the changes what were the people (myself included)that were complaining about the hordes doing but whining. Then WE were the whiners.
Well we must have whined good enough because for better or worse HTC instituted these changes.
So whining must work.
People whines about fuel being porked long enough that something was done about that.
People then whined about the hordes
So why shouldnt they whine if they know that if they whine loud and long enough something will be done?
LOL if you look at the threads you will see most if not everyone here is a whiner about one thing or another. Be it the "They porked the fuel at all my forward bases so I can get into a fight in 2 min or less whine. To "He flew right past me to attack my base without stopping to fight me first" To the there are too many enemy planes hording whines.
Then you have Buff gun whines, GV whines, plane whines and a thousand others.
Then you have the people who whine about people whining which could be another topic all unto itself
Thing is, Your, or my complaint is someone elses whine.
And most people whine's are valid points to those that make them
And whining when done long and loud enough, works.
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Originally posted by baine1
Been here three years.
Come on over to Rooks ghost and fly there for a couple of months, then tell me to stop posting.
And you just found the BBS?
Whats you game ID?
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I'd like to ask another question
"to those that are upset" (see its not off topic)
Hypothetically.
If given the choice of only one or the other only which would you rather have.
The Current ENY system?
Or fuel back to its previous porkable levels?
Neither really effects the way I Fly so I am curious as to what you all think.
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Originally posted by VolsCAF
Been here 4 years.
Been through lots of changes and willing to see how it all works out.
Did you ever consider that as a business owner HT might want to hear how people are feeling as he makes changes?
Just a thought.
We pay our money, it's our time to spend. If we wanna post let us post. You don't have to read it.
So go FLY and ask youself...
Why did I spend my time telling people to stop posting when I could have been flying?
Couldn’t have been said more fair or to the point.
Originally posted by Ghosth
So for all you people with your undies in a bunch, some quick advise.
Shut up, quit posting, quit whining.
FLY
I Just started feeling the squeeze in our squad yesterday when a squad member informed that he made a call to HTC to discuss his dislike of being denied a certain plane. This player is a very pleasant person online and came to our squad as a TOTAL newbie. I spent months trying t get him to fly something other than a C-47. But he was nervous about fighters and said he could best serve as a Goon pilot. When we finally convinced him to move into the cockpit of a fighter he asked what plane to fly? We told him it didn't matter but we suggested he find one he liked and stick to it. He chose the Spit5 and has stuck to it. And has gotten pretty darn good in it too. Without going into great personal detail. I will say that his "Real Life" situation is quite bzy at times and can be quite stressful. His time in AH is supposed to be relaxing and enjoyable. He doesn't have the time or the inclination to learn a different fighter, Nor should he have too. Without Hijacking or getting off topic in keeping with the New Forum Rules, I will say that there are plenty of other options to effectively balance game play without having to necessarily balance the player numbers.
I am very pleased with HTCs efforts to keep game play balanced.
But its looking more and more like a substantial number of players are feeling alienated with the new hybrid type "Numbers/Game Play balancing System" :(
BTW
Rule Five of the Forum Rules
5- Flamebaiting, trolling, or posting to incite or annoy is not allowed.
The Title of the Thread is Stated as a question.
Your intention was to draw us in with the question. Then tell us you don’t actually want or care what our answer was or is. Instead you wanted to tell us to……….
“Shut up, quit posting, quit whining.”
See Rule 4 and 5 of the Forum Rules.
4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
5- Flamebaiting, trolling, or posting to incite or annoy is not allowed.
PS. The option that was posed to this squad member was "He could change countries"
I think the Mafia Squad is running around 32+ members at present. For him to switch countries would mean the entire squad would change. The Balance would have a great swing in this case.
I guess we are seeing what several players said would happen with this type of balancing system. :(
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Been here since tour 14....so yeah, a couple of years, and have been rook the whole time with a few minor instances of changing countries for a night or two.
I don't like this new implementation for number balance. I think it was a drastic measure that has not addressed the problem, obviously, since numbers are still skewed.
There have always been a number inbalance problem to one degree or another. Last month it was the Knights who suffered. How many months did the rooks have that same problem.
As a community member, it should have been my responsibility to help balance the numbers. I have approached the squad on this issue, and just this week I flew with the knights to get a feel of their country people.
I think, if it had been left alone, numbers would have gravitated on their own to help the balance issue. Now, I think you have a lot of people that refuse to leave out of pure spite now.
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You know, never in my life would I have ever thought that I would be sitting here defending the rights of someone who wanted to fly the La7. :confused:
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Originally posted by Goth
You know, never in my life would I have ever thought that I would be sitting here defending the rights of someone who wanted to fly the La7. :confused:
See that's the problem.
It's no one's right to fly any type of airplane.
You pay your money to play the game HT produces.
You have the right to play or not to play.
You have the right to pay for HT's product or not.
Paying for the right to play the game does not entitle anyone to fly any specific airplane.
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Originally posted by Ghosth
Seriously, how many of you who are so upset about the change have been here 2 years or more. .
I had the same observation. The majority of everyone in an uproar I don't even remeber being here over a year.
IMHO most of the experienced player can compete with the early war planes so the changes are easy to cope with.
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Ghosth There is nothing wrong in stateing how you feel to company that depends on your support. As long as its clean and to the point. I for one think it takes bombers out game to hq, when you do 4 extra things to secure hQ . Increase hardness, make more tonage, radar only out if destroyed and then make 163's easier for defense.
You take out guys going for HQ let alone guy flys to hq for 1 to 2 hours, just to have 1 guy up for 5 mins to knock down bombers. Now you make it so it takes more tonage, and can't kill radar no need for 163's anymore.
Never have I seen any company not want feed back for its customers. I'd rather see feed back then to have a few Who want this sim to be just Furballs. Well thats my 2 cents worth..........
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Originally posted by baine1
Been here three years.
Come on over to Rooks ghost and fly there for a couple of months, then tell me to stop posting.
LOL
I've flown rooks for 3 days now, and have never seen a single restriction.
I'm 100% with you ghost...it's probably only type of action that could of brought me back. Arena is actually FUN again:aok
BTW...DREDIOCK that was awful good flying last night...sorry to bust on in but I was told the rooks shoot you if you dont clear a 6:D
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Originally posted by SunKing
I had the same observation. The majority of everyone in an uproar I don't even remeber being here over a year.
IMHO most of the experienced player can compete with the early war planes so the changes are easy to cope with.
Not completely true. Whereas, it has not affected what I fly it has affected squad members.
One squad member likes the P38, and a couple times it has been turned off resulting in a less than enjoyable experience.
Another squad member has chosen to use tours as campaigns, and flies a particular plane each month. This month he was expending :p all of his perks by having a Me262 campaign. He has been denied his plane a majority of the time since implementation.
These two members have also been playing the game for years, so it is not just the people who have been flying for less than a year complaining.
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I've only been flying here since March (5 months..?), and have no problem with the new system. As I've stated elsewhere, it's caused me to try some different aircraft that normally I might not have even thought about using. It seems like most of the complaints are based on people's normal resistance to change, and fear of trying something new and unknown. Just my .02 worth...
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Originally posted by muckmaw
See that's the problem.
It's no one's right to fly any type of airplane.
You pay your money to play the game HT produces.
You have the right to play or not to play.
You have the right to pay for HT's product or not.
Paying for the right to play the game does not entitle anyone to fly any specific airplane.
That's not entirely true. We all pay for an expected product. The 15 bucks a month has always paid for access to all aircraft. With a reduction in available aircraft should come a reduction in fees. Less product = lower cost.
I have to fall back on the argument that this is a war game. And in war, the point is for you to be stronger than your enemy in an attempt to erase him from the face of the earth. When you loose, you loose... better luck next time... If these teams with low number really want an advantage.. The veterans need to go recrut from other teams. If you feel that you are outnumbered.. take it upon yourself to change that...
btw.... I've been in the game for about 2.5 years. I just started posting on the message board because I now have a reason to.
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Originally posted by Puff
That's not entirely true. We all pay for an expected product. The 15 bucks a month has always paid for access to all aircraft. With a reduction in available aircraft should come a reduction in fees. Less product = lower cost.
You're kidding, right?
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Knits have been on restriction two or three times this week when I flew, wasn't a big deal.
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Game Id's Skbaine. Added the SK when my squad all went to a prefix naming system. Nothing mysterious there, maybe just laziness.
Didn't just discover the bbs, just haven't had much reason to complain before. I'd rather fly than flame. But these changes have got me upset. I can handle not flying 51s and La7s, but I think taking out the B17 and panzers is just plain wrong and an indication that this system wasn't really very well thought out. You have lots of choices when it comes to flying fighters, you don't have many choices when it comes to heavy buffs or gvs.
If we had more choices, I would be spending my time in the arena and not here.
I'm also not convinced that denying use of certain planes will actually get people to change sides. I might be wrong (but the amount of posts on this issue would indicate that maybe I'm not) but I think limiting planes does nothing but piss people off, certainly not what HTC had in mind when it implemented the changes.
I also have a problem with people complaining about "The horde."
I guess one of my concerns is that I don't know the true makeup of rooks v bish v knights and I don't know if this is done to address a true radical imbalance in the numbers or just because rooks tend to work together on some nights.
There's nothing stopping other sides from working together too. Teamwork is one of the fun aspects of this game. Other sides should try it.
If we have a system where one of the goals is to earn resets I don't see why working together to earn resets should be penalized. NO ONE to my knowledge has addressed that issue yet.
Am I whining? Maybe. But I do feel that I should be allowed to add my input just like people who moaned about hording added theirs. I also find it funny that people say "Oh look, Bish and Knight flyers aren't complaining, this must be fair." Heck, I wouldn't complain if I were them. I'd be on the BBS lobbying to get even more planes excluded.
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Originally posted by Goth
You know, never in my life would I have ever thought that I would be sitting here defending the rights of someone who wanted to fly the La7. :confused:
I always knew you had a little dweeb in ya Goth;)
But the real issue comes when the current implimentation has drastic, and often distructive side effects on gameplay and the community. Some of the new tweaks will help (140 min and 163 and perhaps all perk rides being imune), however, there are still some issues that need addressing. Like the rapid pace of the modifier changing. It happened on Sunday, my squad tried to up P38's...and at the time we began to form up on the runway, the MIN was a good 5 away from restricting the P38....now I dont know if it was our actual going on the runway to fly or just more numbers in general....but within 30 seconds, we had 4-5 guys who couldnt launch becuase the MIN value had swung drastically in under a minute.
Its even worse for official missions made in the mission planner. It takes a minimum of 5 minutes to get a mission going, and its usually better to announce and plane it 10-30 minutes ahead of time to give those who would like to participate a chance to RTB. With the new system, it is impossible to plan a mission involving the top thrid of the rankings without risking the entire mission going the crap after a long planing and build up........This even includes planes like the B-17 which was disabled for a long time at least once this week.
If we are stuck with this monster, I hope the ENY values are reassesed in short order, and that some smoothing is made to the way the restriction is assesed (maybe a max of 1 point per minute move or something)
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Originally posted by baine1
I also have a problem with people complaining about "The horde."
I guess one of my concerns is that I don't know the true makeup of rooks v bish v knights and I don't know if this is done to address a true radical imbalance in the numbers or just because rooks tend to work together on some nights.
There's nothing stopping other sides from working together too. Teamwork is one of the fun aspects of this game. Other sides should try it.
If we have a system where one of the goals is to earn resets I don't see why working together to earn resets should be penalized. NO ONE to my knowledge has addressed that issue yet.
The "horde" is a numbers issue on anyside, it has nothing to do with any other factor...
Teamwork is a different issue, based on what I saw in another thread I started I don't see either other team really appreciating the difference yet...
The current restriction in no way negatively effects either teamwork or the ability to win...it simply helps to address balance issues specific to your 1st point "the horde". In reality no team is being punished in anyway.
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If we have a system where one of the goals is to earn resets I don't see why working together to earn resets should be penalized. NO ONE to my knowledge has addressed that issue yet.
Working together is not penalized. We are not trying to implement a system where consentrating your forces is hampered.
But it realy is a basic game concepts that all sides have the same number of players. If you don't belive that concept, please sight one case where a game is not designed with that in mind. And please do not tell me AH is war, because it is not, it is a War game. And games are ment to be fun and fair. While war is not ment to be either fair or fun.
With equal sides, doing what it takes to win , is what game play is. In AH there are multiple levels of winning, makeing a capture,just shooting down more people than shot you down, ending the war. All are items of game play in AH.
Having more on your team gives your side an unfair advantage to all other sides. All items of game play are effected by that imbalance. And there realy is nothing that the sides with less numbers can do about it. They can not swith countries to even the numbers, if they move to the country with more numbers it just makes everything worse. They could make a treaty, but that only works in a defensive mode.
Equal sides is such a basic consept that over the life of AH the sides have maintained a fairly equal number, the resone is realy simple, people have more fun when the sides are equal.
So now the question becomes not IF the sides should be equal,
but how to accomplish that equality with least impact to the social apspect of the game.
HiTech
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I've been here since beta... Opened an official account in October 2000.
What we have in this change is a big mess. IMO, the "community" whines about making the game into a "simulation" so HTC just kept making everything more and more furball and horde pounding easy. The result was one side eventually making a larger horde than the other so they could win.
Rather than make the game a little more involved or changing gameplay to make hordes more of a hinderance than a help, we get this ALL THE SUDDEN sweeping change that instantly effects 1/3 of the customer base.
Perhaps if we were eased into this... Maybe this exact change, but one that gradually forced this change. Something like allowing (just guessing at numbers) 50% number disparity the first week, then 40% the next week, then 30%, and so on until we get the whatever the percentage is now.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I dont envy any of the HTC staff. Dealing with everyone of all sides has got to be nothing less then a major PIA.
I dont know of which side of the fence you sit or even if you care one way or the other. But to the "quit whining"
Before the changes what were the people (myself included)that were complaining about the hordes doing but whining. Then WE were the whiners.
Well we must have whined good enough because for better or worse HTC instituted these changes.
So whining must work.
People whines about fuel being porked long enough that something was done about that.
People then whined about the hordes
So why shouldnt they whine if they know that if they whine loud and long enough something will be done?
LOL if you look at the threads you will see most if not everyone here is a whiner about one thing or another. Be it the "They porked the fuel at all my forward bases so I can get into a fight in 2 min or less whine. To "He flew right past me to attack my base without stopping to fight me first" To the there are too many enemy planes hording whines.
Then you have Buff gun whines, GV whines, plane whines and a thousand others.
Then you have the people who whine about people whining which could be another topic all unto itself
Thing is, Your, or my complaint is someone elses whine.
And most people whine's are valid points to those that make them
And whining when done long and loud enough, works.
Wow. Truer words were never spoken. I think we could all stand to look at it like this.
Oh, and by the way:
Hilts<----guilty as charged, just like everyone else.
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Originally posted by hitech
So now the question becomes not IF the sides should be equal,
but how to accomplish that equality with least impact to the social apspect of the game.
HiTech
I think that this really is what everyone is searching for. The difficulty of managing it would be hard to overstate. Thanks for the effort.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Wow. Truer words were never spoken. I think we could all stand to look at it like this.
Oh, and by the way:
Hilts<----guilty as charged, just like everyone else.
No big epiphany there ... there is a saying that has been around for ages.
"The squeaky wheel, get the grease".
But rightfully so. In RL, when something in your car squeaks loudly and/or long enough, it deserves attention. It usually indicates something is wrong. A mechanic or someone with indepth knowledge of the car, needs to check it out and decide if there is truly something wrong. If he decides there is something wrong, then it needs to be fixed.
The car is Aces High and the mechanic is HiTech.
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Originally posted by baine1
I also have a problem with people complaining about "The horde."
I guess one of my concerns is that I don't know the true makeup of rooks v bish v knights and I don't know if this is done to address a true radical imbalance in the numbers or just because rooks tend to work together on some nights.
The change does not punish or otherwise affect teamwork. It only affects you if you outnumber the other teams. So its only purpose and effect is for numbers imbalance.
If some team likes to work together, they can continue to do so.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I'd like to ask another question
"to those that are upset" (see its not off topic)
Hypothetically.
If given the choice of only one or the other only which would you rather have.
The Current ENY system?
Or fuel back to its previous porkable levels?
Neither really effects the way I Fly so I am curious as to what you all think.
i never was offended by the fuel situation but i am on the eny situation. when the fuel is porked you are forced into a different ride like a fiddy1 or something. so IMO i think that the current fuel system does not help the problem. when fuel used to be down to 25% that pretty much meant no laffers or n1ks. would be intresting to see the ENY restrictions removed and fuel porkable again. with the burn mult @2 might have the same effect as the ENy disablments. we all know there are flying pigs out there. they love to come to your pad and fix your strats for you. this limits your planeset.
so you have eny restrictions with a min of 75% fuel
or you have no eny restrictions and fuel is porkable to 25% with the exact same effect like it used to be.
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to the thread starter. sounds like flamebait to me. no one needs you to tell us what a whine is and whos doing it. growing up in a home with 4 sibblings and the fact i have children. all i have heard are angry outbursts (myself included) and complaints................... ..............hardly whines. a whine is something a 5 year old does over a popsicle. since most of us are adults i seriously doubt we are whining. we are voicing opinions in mannors from angry to upset. this is what the so called "number whiners" done and they got their way.
What we are doing is bitzching. the number people done it and now the eny people are doing it. i think its going to go on and on until a solution that can be accepted by everyone is found. until then accept the bitzching cause we had to put up with it b4 the eny disablements with number bitzchers.
quote from skuzzy:
"The fact of the matter is, the community at large has always
had control over the balance in the arenas.
For some reason people stopped trying to help balance the numbers, which made for many frustrated and unhappy players who had nothing to do but always be on the defensive."
since we refused to hear the bitzching of only part of the community, the other part is now suffering. if we want the posts to stop and want EVERYONE to be happy again, we as a community need to do something about this. we need to take it into our own hands to level the field. only then will the ENY restriction be lifted (cannot swear to this but this seems to be a possible fact).
if you want the "whining" to stop, take a stand. talk to a friend on the game. open a squad dialog ANYTHING to try to satisfy ALL instead of the few. if the pros and cons can come together and reach a sensible solution...well you know where im going with this. its either this or the eny people will remain upset. will no one who is FOR the eny system speak up and offer a solution for all?
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IMHO the changes do penalize teamwork.
If the Rooks get together and say "Let's all fly tonight and work together as a team to accomplish a goal" and we all log on and then find that, because we all logged on we are denied use of certain planes or vehicles that have a direct impact on our ability to do what we set out to do, ie the B-17 and Panzers, then it appears to me we are being penalized. That might not be the goal of the new system, but it does seem to be the result. And that's why people are complaining.
If we had another heavy bomber with the survivability of the B-17 (how about a B-17F?) or another nonperk tank then no problem. Unfortunately, the Lancaster falls far short of the B-17 and there really is no other alternative to the Panzer.
As for fighters, take 'em. I have no problem with that. There are enough choices out there to keep things interesting and fair.
I would also point out that this change was implemented with no changes to other bonuses given to the outnumbered team. They still get cheap perk fighters and increased perk points.
I beg to differ that alliances are strictly defensive. Many times I've seen Rook bases considerably reduced in number by these "defensive" alliances. I've also seen Rook numbers shrink like certain body parts in cold water when a Knight/Bishop "defensive" alliance really starts kicking some tail.
I would also point out this system _ or any other system in place _ in no way banned the Knights and Bishops from figuring out that Sundays usually saw a lot of Rooks up flying and upping in similar numbers to counter the threat.
So with this system, I'm flying a Lancaster with no belly gun against a guy who can buy a 262 for peanuts, who gets beucoup points for gunning me down and my escorts are left trying to chase him down in Zekes. In fact, if I arranged for another squad to come on the same night and escort my squad my chances of getting a B-17 are cut.
That doesn't sound fair, does it?
Few people complained when perks were manipulated to help balance the inequity in numbers because that was a change that seemed fair and sensible. The reason so many people are complaining about this is because it doesn't seem fair.
After thinking about this for a couple of days, I sort of have to agree that the best way to balance numbers is to implement a general reshuffling. Squadmates will find one another and squads that like to fly together will also eventually hook up again.
My two cents
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Edit for flame bating
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Originally posted by baine1
IMHO the changes do penalize teamwork.
If the Rooks get together and say "Let's all fly tonight and work together as a team to accomplish a goal" and we all log on and then find that, because we all logged on we are denied use of certain planes or vehicles that have a direct impact on our ability to do what we set out to do
No, it's not "because you are logged on" that you are denied, it's because you as a group chose to join the team with the most numbers. If your group joined the team with the least numbers, you'd get to fly what you want, and you could still organize that mission as a group.
At some point, you're going to have to face the fact that numbers do not imply teamwork, and neither does teamwork imply numbers.
Originally posted by baine1
I've also seen Rook numbers shrink like certain body parts in cold water when a Knight/Bishop "defensive" alliance really starts kicking some tail.
In which case the rooks will benefit from the balancer.
Originally posted by baine1
So with this system, I'm flying a Lancaster with no belly gun against a guy who can buy a 262 for peanuts, who gets beucoup points for gunning me down and my escorts are left trying to chase him down in Zekes. In fact, if I arranged for another squad to come on the same night and escort my squad my chances of getting a B-17 are cut.
That doesn't sound fair, does it?
Sure it does. You can use numbers to overcome the plane deficiency. E.g. you can attack the base from two sides, and the 262 will only be able to hit one of the raids. Teamwork, you know. ;)
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Ok just for the record. If you want to call what I posted a whine, go ahead.
I've been here long enough & posted few enough that I had this one coming.
Second, discussion about ideas, ways to fix the problem are one thing.
Once the systems in place, its fine to point out problems in that system. As it is constructive, and leads to the betterment of all.
However, continued whines, endlessly going over the same ground, "post here if you hate the new system" posts, & the like do nothing but eat up BBS space & start brush fires. I truly believe that if everyone will just fly for 2 weeks then evaluate the situation.
That most will be able to live with it if not actually happy about it.
Last, this is HT's house, and his labor of love. Hitech works 6 days a week long hours on what must be done. And comes in sundays to do the "fun" stuff.
Anyone who has ever created anything,
just to have people put it down, & endlessly complain about how crappy it is makes the creator feel like crap.
Constructive helpful critism is one thing.
Continued whine after whine after threat to leave after whine acomplishes nothing.
You will do of course what you choose to do. So be it contine to throw temper tantrums, close your acct, whatever. Just do it quietly please. Some of us are trying to fly & have fun here.
Some will call me a fanboi, brown noser, what have you.
Like I care.
I was here before most of you & I sincerly hope to be the last one out the door when the lights are turned off.
Your milage may vary
Last as the AH Trainer Corp Lead I do have an obligation at least in my mind to be supportive of the company that has given me so much. However beyond that even through many changes have happened that caused huge amounts of struggle to master. I have been & always will support HTC in their endevour to make the best WWII flight sim/game available.
At least I can look back over the years & see what I have accomplished with a positive feeling. Can any one of you who seemingly endlessly whines & complains say the same?
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I'm a new comer to AH but I'm also used to dealing with large corporate companies on other online games and I'm quite impressed with the way things have been handled.
Yes... this was a sweeping change but I feel that experiements to test theories often have to be on the drastic side so as to collect good data. As a player, I like the fact that this ENY fix was labeled from the begining as a experiment and not presented to us as "this is the way it will be from now on so deal with it." The recent adjustments to the system offer more proof that the community is a big part of the decision making process with this game and that player's suggestions actually do get consideration.
Originally posted by hitech
Equal sides is such a basic consept that over the life of AH the sides have maintained a fairly equal number, the reason is really simple, people have more fun when the sides are equal.
So now the question becomes not IF the sides should be equal,
but how to accomplish that equality with least impact to the social apspect of the game.
HiTech
Since you asked... it seems like the problems of "hoarding" and "land grabbing or blitzing the other country off the map" are two seperate issues and would require two seperate fixes.
Hoarding seems to come in the form of an overwhelming swarm of planes upping from the closest base and pounding the nearest enemy base.
Has it been suggested that the ENY of airfields be limited instead of limiting individual aircraft?
It seems like a airfield would have a finite amount of planes, support personel, and resources. The more advanced the plane the larger the drain on these resources. These resources would be the limit as to how many aircraft could operate from that field. (As aircraft were destroyed, disabled, or landed at other bases, resources would be freed up at that airfield and more aircraft would be allowed to launch.)
The end result would be to cap on the number of aircraft that can up from a particualr field. This would limit the amount of aircraft operating in that immediate vicinity and force a team with vastly greater numbers to be spread out over a wider area since they would have to operate from several different fields.
If one force wanted to throw 3 times as many aircraft into a particular battle than the opposing force had, they could still do so but only if they co-ordinated and timed their attack so that all groups coming from their respective airfields arrived on scene at exactly the same time.
The problem of land grab might be resolved by requiring a list of strategic objectives to be fulfilled in order to force a reset by destroying infrastrcture and siezing a large capitol city. This way bases would not figure into the equation at all except as a way to easier faciliate fulfilling these objectives. (As in chess... where it's not how many pieces you have left on the board but how you use them to capture the king.)
-Buzzz
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"Hitech works 6 days a week long hours on what must be done. And comes in sundays to do the "fun" stuff."
Whaaat? I bet HT rides around in a Limo in Dallas romancing long legged silicone enhanced Texas girls. Skuzzy prolly driving.
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I have been here awhile. HTC has always been forthright in the changes they have made. Maybe this wasnt a good one, maybe it was. But Ghosth is right, play the game! The adjustments will be made'
Stay Up;
Blutik
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Originally posted by phookat
No, it's not "because you are logged on" that you are denied, it's because you as a group chose to join the team with the most numbers. If your group joined the team with the least numbers, you'd get to fly what you want, and you could still organize that mission as a group.
At some point, you're going to have to face the fact that numbers do not imply teamwork, and neither does teamwork imply numbers.
Maybe my definition of teamwork is wrong, I always did poorly on 4th grade vocabulary, but I'd say a group of people agreeing to work together in a particular way to achieve a particular goal is teamwork.
Maybe you missed that in my earlier post.
Hoarding, on the other hand, I define as a loose mob following the pack with no real purpose.
I can see where that would get some people angry/upset/frustrated. I can see why HTC would want to try to come up with a way to discourage it. I don't think this is the way.
If the odds are 5 to 1 in your favor, you'll quickly figure out that an La5 or P-51B will do the job just as well as their younger brothers.
I've already pointed out the myriad problems I see with this new system. No need to beat that horse again.
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I think its ironic that these people who cry about the new eny system are the same people who remain on the side with the most numbers when changing sides was never restricted. More so it was encouraged.
You people are forgeting the fact that this is a game. It will NEVER be anything more than that no matter how hard you try. And if you are logging in and finding that you can't fly the plane you want to because your country constantly has high numbers AND this is making you upset... Why dont you get up and do something about it? Is sitting there not doing anything but complaining doing any bit of good? No its not. The MA is unballanced, there isn't one person here that can deny that. When things in the game just arent fun for you because you can't fly the planes you want to fly you need to go to or do what it takes to allow you to have the fun you wish to have and fly the planes you werent able to fly.
There are many squads that are VERY big. Yet they have remained on the same side for years and years. They speak of how much the help out the community of AH. It would only take 1 or two squads moving around to the side with consistantly lower numbers to honestly HELP out the community. I know many of the squads who have been on the same side for a very long time feel some loyalty to that side but many times change is good, and a change like this would be good.
On another positive note in regards to your squad changing sides. You will be able to fly with people whome you flown against. Fly against people you've flown with. Learn new tactics, learn how the other guy does it. Just have fun.
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Originally posted by Buzzz
Has it been suggested that the ENY of airfields be limited instead of limiting individual aircraft?
It seems like a airfield would have a finite amount of planes, support personel, and resources. The more advanced the plane the larger the drain on these resources. These resources would be the limit as to how many aircraft could operate from that field. (As aircraft were destroyed, disabled, or landed at other bases, resources would be freed up at that airfield and more aircraft would be allowed to launch.)
The end result would be to cap on the number of aircraft that can up from a particualr field. This would limit the amount of aircraft operating in that immediate vicinity and force a team with vastly greater numbers to be spread out over a wider area since they would have to operate from several different fields.
If one force wanted to throw 3 times as many aircraft into a particular battle than the opposing force had, they could still do so but only if they co-ordinated and timed their attack so that all groups coming from their respective airfields arrived on scene at exactly the same time.
I've often felt this might be the ultimate solution. It makes for good team play, as coordination from a limited base would have to be done with an open base. There would be no limitation on the aircraft upped from any field just total numbers. And for those seeking realism... well it seems more realistic to have a limited number of planes from any base. It always looks cool when a mission involves 30 P-38's. But it makes it rough on game play, which is really what it is all about. If you could only up 15 P-38's from one field and 15 from another it would make missions more challenging and maybe more enjoyable, without limiting the plane types involved. It doesn't take a lot of skill to take a horde of planes and a goon to take over an isolated base. Now try doing it with the added "problem" of doing it from 2 or even 3 bases.Wow, I think I rambled.
Peace
Pillur
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OK ok, I guess I have to chime in here and try and figure this out.
I still don't understand what happens with "ENY" {what ever that is}
And why does it effect what plane one what's to fly ? Does it cost {perks} more?
I know the arena has screamed about uneven numbers on a given side, but why does this make someone want to switch to another country?
I don't fly planes so this is all pretty foreign to me:confused:
Just curious, thanks
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Where is all them #'s people, the ones that keep posting with the numbers, as in Rooks have this many squads, this many loyal to this country and some are just primary and jump around, knights have this many loyal full time, and this many primary but move around and so on...etc....for the Rook Squads that moved from Bish & Knight to Rook, with in the past Year and stayed Rook, to me I see you as the biggest problem as for the numbers issue, granted though the numbers do fluctuate alot through out every given day....there is no simple problem solving answer......it does not matter what choice is picked to remedy this someone will always be upset with it regardless
so what is is then, one country has a lot more squads then another, then they have more primary than the rest, well the thing is the country with the most sure don't want to move, because they love the advantage of being overwhelming the odds. Yet that is fair to them and it isn't fair to take away their planes so they can be overwhelming, as for RJO ...heck that might happen once or twice a month or so but from all the times I have flown it seemed like they had practice nights every day/night it wasn't an RJO......
You say go and start recruiting get more people, to that I say how do you pull people from a numerically overwhelming country that don't want to voluntarily move to start with. That is the whole reason they are there. so they have the numbers, and do not want or have to fight on even ground.
What is wrong also with staying with a country you feel loyal too? I never seen people change or even have to change before, The Damned will not change because of #'s we will only change if everyone in our group think that we should on our terms.....not because we are outnumbered and we desire to be on the overwhelming side, not because if too many move to knights and we become the new overwhelming country, or any other time.
btw...I am not upset with any changes, I don't let it bother me, I understand this is hitech's house and we play by his rules.
I do like one reply I saw though, why don't hitech / HTC just reset the whole shebang and we start a new and see how every individual/group/squad sorts itself out.
Also, I miss them poll's / questions / surveys HTC use to put up that you had to answer when you would log on at times, I thought that was a good thing,.
Maybe if that had happened here, before the change was instituted, that people would have thought that everybody that flys would have voted, and the vote was for the change...majority ruled. With this the community would of had the say, and noone could really complain.....because the community voted it in. I am rambling now...sorry
oh yeah, I also do not think squads that have been with a certain country for a significant time should have to move, from any country all be it Rook, Knight or Bish.....I think it might level out if some of the squads that country hop every tour picked a country and stayed there it would help. And as for recruiting people you should recruit someone if they fit with your groups style, not just to increase numbers, for body count.....
if you do then you end up later on down the road having falling outs and flame wars etc......people should fly with a squad for a good while before accepting to be invited as well......don't do the hastily jump into a squad just to find out ya don't mix well.
I would really like to know, if every single squad had every single member flying at the same time and every other non squad person flying at the same time, which country would actually have the most players?
I apologize to anyone if you think I offended you
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VERY well posted TC, thank you sir!
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Originally posted by baine1
Maybe my definition of teamwork is wrong, I always did poorly on 4th grade vocabulary, but I'd say a group of people agreeing to work together in a particular way to achieve a particular goal is teamwork.
Maybe you missed that in my earlier post.
Hoarding, on the other hand, I define as a loose mob following the pack with no real purpose.
OK. This doesn't change my point. Teamwork doesn't imply numbers, and numbers don't imply teamwork.
Originally posted by baine1
I can see where that would get some people angry/upset/frustrated. I can see why HTC would want to try to come up with a way to discourage it. I don't think this is the way.
Don't think of it that way. This is a change to make the game more fair, not to prevent hording or prevent teamwork or anything else. You can still horde with even numbers, and you can still team-up with even numbers.
In fact this change is milder than a strictly fair change, which would be forcing you to join the side with the least numbers every time you log on.
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Originally posted by phookat
OK. This doesn't change my point. Teamwork doesn't imply numbers, and numbers don't imply teamwork.
So true just as the Tampa Bay Buccaneers!