Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on August 23, 2004, 10:15:20 AM
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Originally posted by GScholz
How many 19-year-old girls run around with guns in the US? ... Yeah thought so.
I think you underestimate the power of American girls...;)
Click here to find out how wrong you are.. (http://home.comcast.net/~ripsnort60/guns.wmv)
:D
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Two?
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I personaly know more than two.
lazs
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If you count my wife (18 when she had her Conceal and Carry) and Storch's girls, that makes at least 5 on this unscientific results. ;)
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Wow never knew it was legal to posess and fire mortar shells, cannons and other military fully auto weapons.
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A machine gun or destructive device (ie cannon) can be owned if you have a license from the ATF. You submit fingerprints, a background check and $200. After a few months they give you the once-over and you have your permit. The owner of the full-auto may then give you possession of it.
I own two full-auto weapons, a M-16 and an Uzi.
Two of my dad's friends own cannon. A 25 pounder and a Pak 37. Shooting the Pak is lots of fun.
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Schizer
You can apply for a federal permit to own and purchase full auto weapons.
Your state has to aprove it as well. Many states will aprove them.
The guns are NUTTY exspensive though.
You can not modify a non full auto gun to me full auto.
it was close to 10 k for a M16 the last time I saw prices. A real M60 could run you almost 20k. (I think... going from memory, from the shotgun news I think)
I am not sure what you have to do to own a mortar or a cannon though lol.
My Girlfriend and her sister have been shooting since they were pre teens.
it is not all that uncommon.
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Dune, are there regulations you have to follow regarding storage, firing, transportation etc.?
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If 19yr old girls have the right to bear arms, they shouls have the right to bare breasts too :):):):)
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Where's one get a fully auto M-16/M-4/Ar-15 after all the background stuff is completed?
And how much money are you talking from a $1200 Ar-15 to auto version?
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Wow, really are pissed at Estes.
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Lepaul
Check out this page.
Full auto guns for sale. (http://www.autoweapons.com/products/products.html)
The prices are nutty.
(http://www.autoweapons.com/photosn/photosjul04/695m16b.jpg) 14,995.00 for this full auto M4.
Having browsed that page, my 10k estimate was pretty low for most of the stuff.
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Thrawn, no there are not. You can leave it loaded in your frontyard or locked up in a gunsafe (my perfered method ;)). If you travel with it, you must have a copy of your ATF license with you. And I live in Arizona, there are plenty of places you can shoot one. There are also many ranges that allow it. If you are a member, you can shoot your full-auto at the Phoenix Rod & Gun club.
In the mid-eighties, it was decided to not allow the civilian production/conversion of any more full-autos. In the good old days, you could take your whatever to a gunsmith, have him drill the holes, etc. to allow you to drop in a full-auto parts kit. Then you would send in your ATF application and when it came back, you could complete the gun and have a legal full-auto.
In the mid-80's (86 I believe) the government decided that the best way to stop crime was to prevent the legal conversion of machine guns (:rolleyes: ) So they give everyone six months to get the conversions and applications in. I remember going around to a bunch of gun owners where I lived with my dad and collecting semi-autos that they would probably have never converted so they could be sent to Phoenix for the conversion. After collecting 30 or so semi-autos (Galil's, M-16's, AK's, Fal's, Uzi's, you name it) we loaded them in the back of the truck and drove to the airport. There we drove onto the tarmac and loaded all these guns in the plane of the gunsmith who flew them to Phoenix. (Imagine trying that today. Even then, to a teenager, it was pretty cool)
And prices are outrageous today. At one time my dad had over 30 full autos (Brens, Vickers, 1917, HBM2, Owen, Sterling, etc). For instance, in 1981 he bought a very nice MG 42 for $3,000.00. 6 months ago at a gun show, I saw one for sale for $40,000.00.
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Originally posted by Dune
Thrawn, no there are not. You can leave it loaded in your frontyard or locked up in a gunsafe (my perfered method ;)).
I see. Hypothically would you be in anyway criminally culpable if someone broke in to your home, stole an unsecured assult rifle or cannon and blew a bunch of people away with it?
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No. Obviously, the front yard thing is an extreme, but it's been tried before, but shot down (pardon the pun) pretty quickly. For any type of firearm.
It would be the same as being held responsible if someone stole your car and then ran over a bunch of people at a bus stop with it. Or stole your steak knife and stabbed someone with it.
I am unaware of any legal theory that makes someone liable for the criminal acts of others. Excepting, of course, cases of coersion, solicitation, and conspiricy. But there you are actively assisting in the crime, advocating it, etc.
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Oh, and to reply to the whole girls and guns title, my sister has been hunting and shooting since she was 13.
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That one girl seemed pretty strong. She held up an M60 like it was nothing...
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Man, to have the money to join that club!
Out...freekin'....standing!
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Thanks for your response Dune.
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That guy who holds up his gun, about 30secs through, I think I know the girl after him... :eek: .
She looks like an old friend of mines sister.
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Originally posted by Hawklore
That guy who holds up his gun, about 30secs through, I think I know the girl after him... :eek: .
She looks like an old friend of mines sister.
Same chick that made you have a panic attack and then made your heart flutter thus making you post every 5 minutes about it?
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Nope...
BTW my HR is still in the 100's
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Are there laws stopping you from shipping in FA weapons from Africa or Eastern Europe?
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Originally posted by stiehl
Are there laws stopping you from shipping in FA weapons from Africa or Eastern Europe?
Yes, it is illegal. In fact, there are limits on how many semi-autos you can import IIRC.
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This will really get Thrawn's goat:
Here in Canada, anything over 12.7mm is considered artillery, and not even a FIREARM. I have M203's, a 14.5 anti tank rifle, and a 20mm Hispano, all of which are live fire capable, but I only have real rounds for the 14.5 on hand.
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Oh, I trust Canadians with firearms. ;)
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Here's something else. Like Canada, in the US, anything over 12.7mm is a cannon. Which means the US .50 cal is considered a rifle cartridge, but the British .55 Boyes round is a cannon.
However, this doesn't apply to large cartridges used for hunting because of special permission from the ATF. There are several hunting rounds that fall into this catagory such as the .505 Gibbs, .550 magnum, .600 Nitro, .700 Nitro Express, etc.
BTW, here is pic of the.550 Magnum.
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid83/p3c100c8a700b1a78ef26c6cf46f14fea/fae31ed3.jpg)
550 mag, 460 weatherby, 458 lott, 30-06
The specs on the .550 are: 700 grain bullet doing 2420 fps. Over 9000 ft lbs of energy. Compare that to the standard .30-06 load of a 160grn bullet doing around 2700fps (ballpark figures).
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M60 is only 23 pounds.
It is a heavy pig tho after humping it mile after mile.
When I jumped as a 60 gunner I tipped the scales over 300 ponds when loaded down with gun,two chutes,rucksack,and other crap loaded in the ruck.
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I live in Michigan and would like to acquire an FFL (3?) to be able to own, fire a Thompson auto. I've always wanted one.
I've heard THEY ARE far from EASY to get, but if someone has some help for me, I'd appreciate it. My USP.45 is fun to shoot, but it's time for something else to be thrown in the mix.
Karaya
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You cant legally purchase an automatic thompson, but im sure you could buy this semi auto (at a mere $5,000) http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976216543.htm and have just as much fun.
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ARIZONA here I come lol. Been in calif to long, didnt even know this was possible. Thanks for the thread.
Wheres beetle? Any one seen beetle? Where did he go ? Hey beetle you gotta see this. Beetle where ya at?
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Wow, really are pissed at Estes.
Now that's funny, thanks for the laugh
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
I live in Michigan and would like to acquire an FFL (3?) to be able to own, fire a Thompson auto. I've always wanted one.
I've heard THEY ARE far from EASY to get, but if someone has some help for me, I'd appreciate it. My USP.45 is fun to shoot, but it's time for something else to be thrown in the mix.
Karaya
I'm not sure if there is a specific law in Michigan to prohibit you from owning a full auto or not.
But
A. You do not have to have a FFL to buy a full auto. You must fill out the application and have it approved by the ATF. Once that is done, you may own one. You only need the FFL to ship firearms across state lines and sell them as a business.
B. Anyone who fills out the ATF application, sends in their $200 dollar check may own a full-auto if they are approved.
You may own a full-auto Thompson. Just be prepared to pay half up front as earnest money so the owner will hold it for you while you send in your ATF app. Then you must get the app filled out, fingerprints, background check, etc. Once that is done, you give the owner the other half of the money (some of them do it this way, YMMV) and he give you the Tommy gun.
And then you get to sing Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner to your heart's content.
My dad had one. Fun to shoot, but they weigh more than a small child.
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Nothing beats the sound of a .50calibre M2 Heavy MG, well exept a quad 50cal mount. seeing hundreds of tracers going down range then exploding whatever they hit. Ive heard many a people describe it as almost orgasmic, inclueding one of my friends, She is 16 BTW, so thats atleast 7
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BTW, there are lots of places that will legally sell you a machine gun. For instance, using the magical power that is Google, I found this place: http://www.impactguns.com/store/machineguns.html
They've sold their Thompson, but they will sell you a M60 for $29,999.99
(http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/catco_m60_cb_big.jpg)
My dad had one and they're lots of fun.
BTW, here is a good basic outline of what the regular American citizen who does not have a felony or domestic violence conviction has to do to own a fully automatic weapon:
Can I Legally Own A Machine Gun (or a Suppressor)?
It is a common misconception that machine guns cannot be owned by law-abiding citizens. This comes from the creation of a variety of confusing laws that have made purchasing a full-auto gun more difficult than purchasing a "normal" gun. But, you can comply with the law and own a machine gun.
First a little history: In May of 1986, certain laws went into effect that made it illegal for 'civilians' to own fully automatic firearms that were manufactured AFTER THAT DATE. Most fully automatic weapons manufactured and registered BEFORE MAY, 1986, MAY BE OWNED BY AND SOLD TO INDIVIDUALS. The full-auto guns that may be owned by individuals are called 'transferable'. Some states DO NOT allow machine gun ownership at all, no matter when the gun was made, but most states do.
To purchase a transferable machine gun, you must meet certain requirements (generally the same as when you purchase another gun), fill out special paperwork (called a 'form 4'), and pay a $200, one-time, transfer tax. Every time a machine gun is transferred, the $200 tax must be paid-- usually by the purchaser. The steps to take to purchase a transferable machine gun are:
1. Find a dealer locally who can assist you in all phases of the transfer. This should go beyond helping you fill out the paperwork: they should help you locate the gun if it isn't in stock and allow you to shoot the gun while your paperwork is being processed by the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms). It will usually take 4-6 weeks for the dealer to get the gun from another dealer if they don't already have it in stock (due to BATF paperwork delays).
2. Get your fingerprints (either by a police dept. or by a qualified fingerprinter, two imprints are needed) and two passport sized pictures taken. These will be used to perform a comprehensive criminal background check on you.
3. Have your local dealer help you fill out an "Application for Tax Paid Transfer And Registration Of Firearm" for, known as a "form 4".
4. You must have the signature of the Chief Law Enforcement (CLEO) officer that has jurisdiction over the municipality in which you live on the form 4. This could be the City Chief or the County Sheriff, for example. This is usually not a problem-- in machine gun friendly states.
5. The form 4, CLEO signature, 2 fingerprint cards, 2 pictures, and a $200 check (your one-time transfer tax) must all be mailed to the BATF and an approved tax stamp returned before you may take possession of the gun. This may take anywhere from 2 to 5 months.
Although it may seem complicated, we are happy to help you through every step in the process. We have transferable guns in stock, and if we don't have it, we can tap into a network of dealers in other states to find it for you. Let us help you get the full-auto gun that you've always wanted-- they are worth it!
How about Suppressors or Short-Barreled Shotguns? Yes you probably can! (Most of the same restrictions apply).
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One final tidbit. There are guns known as dealer samples. To buy one of these (The impact place has a MG34 that is a dealer sample) you must have your Class 3 FFL.
To own one without the license (remember my dad has owned 30+ and I have 2, neither one of us owning a FFL), you have to look for guns listed as transferable. That means that it may be transfered to someone without the FFL.
PS, this place has a transferable Sterling for 7K. If you want a great sub-machine gun, look no further: http://www.autoweapons.com/products/products.html
And the answers to a few more FAQ's (Very helpful to the guy in Michigan, btw)
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
What does "C & R" mean?
C & R stands for Curio and Relic, which is a classification of articles and firearms as specified by BATF. Some states (like MI) require that machine gun owners also be federal C&R License holders, but anyone can buy a C&R gun. Also, if you have a C&R license and purchase a C&R gun it may be shipped directly to you once the transfer is approved, rather than to a Class 3 Dealer in your state before tranfer to you.
How does this purchase procedure work?
You tell us the three magic words - "I'll take it". Send a check for your purchase, along with the name of the Class 3 Dealer you will be using to complete the transfer in your state. If you do not have a dealer, let us know and we will be happy to connect you with a reputable dealer.
Your dealer will send us the proper paperwork for this first transfer, we prepare and fax the Form 3 transfer to BATF immediately, and then once the transfer clears BATF (approximately 3-4 weeks) we ship the gun to your dealer.
Your in-state dealer then prepares Form 4 paperwork, which you will sign and also have signed by the Chief Law Enforcement Officer in your locale (Sheriff, Chief of Police, State Police Chief, etc...only need for one to sign).
You return the completed Form 4's to the in-state dealer, along with (2) passport size photos, (2) fingerprint cards, (1) citizenship authorization, and a transfer tax check made payable to Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for the one time per item transfer tax. A $200.00 transfer tax applies to Short BBL Shotguns, Short BBL Rifles, Machine Guns and Suppressors; a $5.00 transfer tax applies to items classified as Any Other Weapons - "AOW".
This paperwork is mailed to BATF and in 90 - 110 days you go pick up your gun.
We email/contact our customers each step of the way, so you will know when your gun arrives in state and the next transfer, from your dealer to you, can begin.
What are Presamples and Postsamples are why are they cheaper than the other guns?
Both presample and postsample guns are defined by the Gun Control Act/McClure-Volkner Act. Firearms designated "presample" may only be sold to other Class 3 gun dealers, and postsamples may be sold to law enforcement agencies or the military ONLY! . All the guns on our "autoweapons" page are transferable, which makes them the more desirable guns for most of the population. This is why transferable guns are more expensive.
What is a Class 3 License?
A Class 3 Federal Firearms License is required for dealing, manufacturing, and importing firearms for the express purpose of revenue generation - not collecting. It is a felony to obtain a Class 3 License for the purpose of enhancing your collection.
Do I need a license to buy a machine gun?
No, you don't need a federal firearms license. If you are permitted by law to own a handgun and your state allows the transfer of machine guns, you can buy one (unless you are in a state that requires a C&R License for machine gun ownership.
Where do I get a permit for a machine gun?
You don' t need a permit, either. You do need to complete an "Application For Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of Firearm", also known as a Form 4, and this must be signed by the Chief Law Enforcement Officer in your locale. You also need to submit, in duplicate, a complete set of fingerprints and palm prints and passport-size photos.
What is the charge for this transfer?
When your application to Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is submitted there is a $200 transfer tax per item to be paid for machine guns, short bbl shotguns, short bbl rifles and silencers and a $5.00 transfer tax for AOW.
How do I make a semi auto gun into a machine gun?
You don't, unless you want to spend the next 20 years in Leavenworth. No new machine guns can be made, as per the 1986 ban. We have to keep trading the ones already out there.
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US guys around Ohio, might want to check out this site:)
http://www.bulletfest.net/
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The only thing missing from that video (which was unbe****inglievable) was a minigun. That would've pushed it over the edge.
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Dune, thanks. Appreciate it. <
>
Karaya
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what kind of namby pampy pervert would not enjoy firearms? What kind of petty little tyrant would try to stop others from enjoying them?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
what kind of namby pampy pervert would not enjoy firearms? What kind of petty little tyrant would try to stop others from enjoying them?
lazs
When guns were freely available, England had an astonishingly low level of violent crime. A government study for the years 1890-1892, for example, found only three handgun homicides, an average of one a year, in a population of 30 million. In 1904 there were only four armed robberies in London, then the largest city in the world. One century and many gun laws later, the British Broadcasting Corp. reports that England's firearms restrictions and 1997 ban on handguns ''have had little impact in the criminal underworld.'' Guns are virtually outlawed, and, as the old slogan predicted, only outlaws have guns. And what is worse, they are increasingly ready to use them.
Five centuries of growing civility in England ended in 1954. Violent crime there has been climbing ever since, and armed crime - with banned handguns the weapon of choice - is described as rocketing. Between April and November 2001, the number of people robbed at gunpoint in London rose by 53 percent. Last summer, in the course of a few days, gun-toting men burst into an English court and freed two defendants; a shooting outside a London nightclub left five women and three men wounded; and two men were machine-gunned to death in a residential neighborhood of North London.
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The .50 cal mounted in the back of the jeep was a nice tribute to history. I liked the Lewis gun, too. Should've been attached to a SPAD for full effect, though.
The howitzer was interesting. Where would you store that thing?
The R/C target drone was pretty good. I wonder how many rounds that guy expended trying to bring it down.
A couple of years ago they busted a Jewish doctor who was stockpiling explosives and planned to use them against a Muslim education center. He had quite a collection of legally-owned semi-auto rifles and a sniper rifle.
CNN story here (http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/08/23/florida.explosives/)
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gee gofaster... I guess the guy woulda just abondoned his plans to blow up the center with all the explosives he had stored up if he woulda had to give up his semi autos and just use pump shotguns, pump or lever high powered rifles and revolvers.
Are you really this silly and brainwashed?
lazs
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I present both sides of the coin.
I noticed you didn't object to the .50 cal on the back of the jeep.
Historic weapons are cool.
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gofaster... how do you present both sides? every time I see you post about guns you bring out the negative. both sides are not negative. I know.. you like the "historic" aspect right? but you allways seem to present guns and gun owners in the worst possible light... often linking the ownership of guns in some way with other more aberant behavior. Like they were the cause. silly stuff presented in a transparent manner.
That is fine so long as you don't pretend to "present both sides"... if you think you are presenting my side of the situation... well... thank you but... no thanks.. you are doing a bad enough job on the other guys side of it.
lazs
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Hey Rip, can you repost the file again? I didnt get a chance to download it.
THANX!
Terror