Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: rod367th on August 24, 2004, 03:32:57 PM
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Shot p51's wing off and he ditches plane for 2k ............just a little to easy ditching mode?
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I got shot down in the BoB scenario; I was flying a SpitI at 150', I was in a hard bankin turn when the 4 Germans on me finally shot me down.
I ended up ditching inverted in the water, with only 1 wing, no tail and a dead engine.
I just 'bailed' from it with not even a pilot wound.
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Originally posted by rod367th
Shot p51's wing off and he ditches plane for 2k ............just a little to easy ditching mode?
next time don't shot like the wimp you are, make em explode instead:aok
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Yes ditces are too generous especially when kills are awarded only for planes killed outright or ditched in friendly territory. Now you loose kills a lot more over enemy territory cuz the ditch model is so easy, even planes with a full wing shot off and for all intents and purposes written off.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Yes ditces are too generous especially when kills are awarded only for planes killed outright or ditched in friendly territory. Now you loose kills a lot more over enemy territory cuz the ditch model is so easy, even planes with a full wing shot off and for all intents and purposes written off.
Maybe just change it so you get credit for the kill for anything other then a landing at an airfeild.
Isnt that how they counted em anyway?
Maybe its a bit too easy but it can be a hell of alot of fun. And funny.
the other day I was shot up and headed down and was tryign to hold it as steady as possible to get the ditch which I just barely managed to do.
Was going pretty fast when I touched down and was like "Whew.. made it" and I was sliding along on the ground for what seemed like forever When all of a sudden I looked up and saw a building getting larger.
Only had enough time to utter the expression that Im sure must have been uttered countless times before.
"ut oh" BOOOM!
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Yes ditces are too generous especially when kills are awarded only for planes killed outright or ditched in friendly territory. Now you loose kills a lot more over enemy territory cuz the ditch model is so easy, even planes with a full wing shot off and for all intents and purposes written off.
ROD...PUT A CORK IN IT!!!
I ditched missing a wing, ground looped and survived :D
Actually, it would be kind of nice if every ditch attempt that fails didn't result in a death. Some were survivable.
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yup.
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saw an odd ditch today, a Rook Fw190 ditched in the water west of A17 this morning missing all kinds of parts, funny thing was he was upside down, one would assume if ya plane started flipping on the water you would be a gonner for sure, unlike in land , in the water upside down you would drown. but anyhow he escapes with a successful ditch, even with 5 enemys flying all around him and him shot to ......well you know what I mean :)
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I don't remember the story exactly, but some friends of mine talked to a B-26 crew member whose aircraft was torn apart at 50 or 100'... I think the wings were ripped or shot off at flying speeds. It hit the ground and slid a long way. Most or all of the crew survived.
eskimo
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Just ditched my P-51D on the back of a CV... Funny thing was, the CV started to turn and I came in too low. At the last second, I applied full power to try and clear the fan-tail, but I ended up colliding with it with my engine cowling just below the flight-deck.
Smashed off both wings and the horizontal stab... ended up alive on the deck.. sucessfull landing.... Heh
It used to be if you so much as touched the CV you would explode instantly.
All in all, I think the new ditch model is more fun than it used to be, but perhaps a touch on the easy side. However I would rather it is left the way it is now over going back to insta-death for everything.
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I clipped a hangar in a P-40E doing about 200mph knocked my wing off and sent me sliding on my canopy across the grass...All i lost was left wing right wing tip and rudder
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I havent yet tried out the new model, but from all of your posts it seems that the ditching model is more realistic. In real life, a plane doesnt instantly explode if it falls, going forward, from 100 feet or so. It will most likely hit and slide, breaking up as it goes along.
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I was trying to land my FM2 on a carrier and hit the deck pretty hard.
Some how my plane went throught the deck and I ended up parked in the hanger backwards cruising along with the ship.. :lol can't remember if it was a ditch or a landing.
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I think the ditch model might be a temporary make-shift until HTC got their priorities sorted out.
Some versions ago, typically in the betas, ditches were a lot harder. You had to nurse your plane under 150mph in most cases, find a really flat spot on the terrain and gently settle it down.
I have no idea if that was more realistic, but seeing many real life accidents/ditch attempts end up in valiant efforts of the pilot with tragic results, I think it was more understandable that way.
In my general feeling, the physical model of how planes react to various forces while ditching, felt a lot more realistic in previous versions of AH2.
Except, some planes were impossible to ditch due to weird bugs - like, even after a plane comes to a complete stop it would start bouncing all over, and the bouncing would amplify and then the plane would blow up. In other cases, contact with the ground almost immediately blew up the plane.
So, my guess is HTC just generally toughened up the "ditch integrity" of planes as a whole, as a simple, temporary fix.
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Originally posted by United
I havent yet tried out the new model, but from all of your posts it seems that the ditching model is more realistic. In real life, a plane doesnt instantly explode if it falls, going forward, from 100 feet or so. It will most likely hit and slide, breaking up as it goes along.
AH2 doesn't model any rocks or other small obstacles, which IRL would break up your plane as it slides along. Currently the terrain is modelled like a soccer field with a few trees and bumps.
The ditching itself feels pretty realistic but most of the ground should be more rough. Water should also be modelled correctly.
The maximum descent rate of a survivable ditch is definately more realistic now.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
ROD...PUT A CORK IN IT!!!
I ditched missing a wing, ground looped and survived :D
Actually, it would be kind of nice if every ditch attempt that fails didn't result in a death. Some were survivable.
lol you quote someone else and tell me to put a cork in it lol
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Too easy ditching have previously been an issue in the old AH1: http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5081
That would be around v1.02 or something like that.
As I remember it, it was a bit more forgiving than the current one, and no ground clutter made the difference higher.
Then came they update it, which made any rough landing being an instant death.
I kinda like the current modelling.
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This is funny guys saying ditching model seems believeable and more to real life....................... How many times have you ditch your real life planes lol
I've seen falling cockpits from 4 k ditch lol i'm sure falling cockpits from 4000 ft pilot ditch 90% time........
I had a20 blown to bits by flak only cockpit left an landed ok.... so Pretty sure its 2 easy now
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Originally posted by rod367th
Shot p51's wing off and he ditches plane for 2k ............just a little to easy ditching mode?
yes
was doing 350 in a 190 @ 200feet. 1 wing got taken off by a osty and i ditched it! :rofl
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Yah, i got a Typhoon down to no wings/tail and he missled into the water but didnt die. He sat there for a second and ended mission. Since he was near his territory, he didnt get captured and I didnt get a kill.
The ditching model might be a bit too easy, although I agree it makes for more exciting gameplay. I just wish if someone got major damage on you, and you had to ditch, they would get a kill for it. In combat, a kill is counted when you destroy a plane. The pilot has nothing to do with it. If i shoot someone down and they are missing both wings, I really dont think that plane will ever see flight again. That should be a kill.
That being said, I think if something like this were ever implemented, HTC would also have to consider relaxing landing requirements at bases. Landing 10 feet off the concrete at an airbase shouldnt count as a ditch IMO.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
I have no idea if that was more realistic, but seeing many real life accidents/ditch attempts end up in valiant efforts of the pilot with tragic results, I think it was more understandable that way.
I don't know about that Kweassa. There is a huge structural difference between the average civilian aircraft and a military warbird.
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I've got some experience when it comes to what some birds would look like after a crash.
We had a brand new F-15E Strike Eagle crash when I was stationed at a particular base. While on approach one the mains blew out right after touch down. They were going at about 160kts or so. The bird had 3 external wing tanks on board along with a travel pod, and 2 LANTIRN pods. The bird skidded a long way down the strip and then veered off into the grassy area to the left of the runway. The left wing tip dug in and start to spin the aircraft around. Around the same time the nose dug in bring the rear of the jet in the air, 180 degree turn and slamming it to the ground. In the end the forward fuselage was ripped away from the center and aft fuselage. The canopy was completely gone and the radome was tore off. The variable inlets had punctured through the skin and into the WSOs cockpit area.
The only injuries suffered were some bumps and bruises to the pilot and a cut open bicep and a few broken ribs on the WSO. I was amazed at the durability of our aircraft after such a crash.
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Consider the famous footage of a Hellcat returning to land on a carrier after a big battle (Midway?): The damaged hellcat comes it, veers to the side, SLAMS into the tower at high speed, WHIPS around, rips the ENTIRE TAIL off, behind the cockpit, noses down and slides off for at least 12 more feet. Pilot is alive, conscious, and moving, and is helped out of the cockpit by deck crew.
I think:
1) You all are under estimating how much a plane could take vs how much the pilot could take. Just because the PLANE loses a wing doesn't mean the PILOT gets hurt.
2) The ditch is fine, but the damage is wrong. I've ditched many times with a PERFECT ditch that then lost me an entire wing, a tail, and half another wing. I think you are seeing all this damage and going "No way! The ditch model is wrong!!" when in fact you should be saying "Huh, cool ditch, but that damage model is WAY wrong!".
My $0.02
No wait, I'm broke, I'm charging YOU $0.02 just for reading that!
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Originally posted by Krusty
Consider the famous footage of a Hellcat returning to land on a carrier after a big battle (Midway?): The damaged hellcat comes it, veers to the side, SLAMS into the tower at high speed, WHIPS around, rips the ENTIRE TAIL off, behind the cockpit, noses down and slides off for at least 12 more feet. Pilot is alive, conscious, and moving, and is helped out of the cockpit by deck crew.
I think:
1) You all are under estimating how much a plane could take vs how much the pilot could take. Just because the PLANE loses a wing doesn't mean the PILOT gets hurt.
2) The ditch is fine, but the damage is wrong. I've ditched many times with a PERFECT ditch that then lost me an entire wing, a tail, and half another wing. I think you are seeing all this damage and going "No way! The ditch model is wrong!!" when in fact you should be saying "Huh, cool ditch, but that damage model is WAY wrong!".
My $0.02
No wait, I'm broke, I'm charging YOU $0.02 just for reading that!
yeah... a plane coming in to land at 120mph max onto a deck doing 30mph...so thats like 90mph max. Just a regular car crash that is.......
we are talking about 300mph HARD CRASHES. How many videos of WWII planes have you seen crashing into the sea or ground @ speed, not landing? most the time the engine block gets burried 10foot into the soft ground while the rest of the plane INCLUDING the pilot disintegrates.
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I don't know about that Kweassa. There is a huge structural difference between the average civilian aircraft and a military warbird.
You all are under estimating how much a plane could take vs how much the pilot could take. Just because the PLANE loses a wing doesn't mean the PILOT gets hurt.
I understand the general premises, and I think it makes sense. I'd understand that if it was something between 100~200mph, the pilot trying to nurse his plane into a belly landing - which, was indeed, a real-life procedure taught to pilots in case the landing gears were working unevenly...
But a safe ditch at 300mph?
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I know I've had a few times where I've ended up getting a safe ditch but it was never above 200mph. Everytime I got my safe ditches I always came in some what flat and never with any kind of high RoD. I almost always came out with nothing left but the forward fuselage either.
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Originally posted by rod367th
This is funny guys saying ditching model seems believeable and more to real life....................... How many times have you ditch your real life planes lol
I've seen falling cockpits from 4 k ditch lol i'm sure falling cockpits from 4000 ft pilot ditch 90% time........
I had a20 blown to bits by flak only cockpit left an landed ok.... so Pretty sure its 2 easy now
That's a flight model problem. Some planes can be flown relatively gently to the ground with full rudder when they are missing an entire wing.
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Originally posted by Flayed1
I was trying to land my FM2 on a carrier and hit the deck pretty hard.
Some how my plane went throught the deck and I ended up parked in the hanger backwards cruising along with the ship.. :lol can't remember if it was a ditch or a landing.
was a landing, been there done that 4 times now ;)
once was on takeoff hit contower ,CV was turning, fell through to hanger.
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go skip some rocks across a pond. ya might learn something.
:)
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Originally posted by DieAz
go skip some rocks across a pond. ya might learn something.
:)
Please don't tell me you think plane and rocks act same lol.. oh wait rocks have explosives and fuel on board. Oh and try skipping stone wrong that is how plane with no wings would skip lol......
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I've had a couple of crashes when practicing with the new flight models offline where my looping 350 mph pull out intersected the ground at a somewhat flat angle. I had the center pod and inner wing/engine area of a p-38 slide half way across a field once. One tough bird :) Bit too tough.
Charon
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I was ditching a p47 and saw some bushed ahead. thought "great, these will slow me down soft and easy..." the jug broke to pieces upon hitting the bushes :o
must have been growing on rocks.
Bozon
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Would HT care to comment on the ditching model and help us understand how it currently works?
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bad part is.....when you rip someones wing off and they end up on the ground in a wrecked plane you dont get credit for the kill
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Originally posted by Adogg
Would HT care to comment on the ditching model and help us understand how it currently works?
What's there to comment? The maximum survivable descent rate and ground speed have been set higher.