Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Gorf on January 21, 2000, 10:00:00 AM
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NATEDOG,
PLEASE say it is true in next rev of AH.
(putting ruby slippers on and clicking heels)
Gorf
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
PS shouldn't that be a F4U5-C?? Just a question?
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yep, it will be in the next version, and it is a F4U-1C.
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Nathan "NATEDOG" Mathieu
Art Director
HiTech Creations
-=HELLFIRE SQUAD=-
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Thank you, Lord.
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Spinny, VF-17, The Jolly Rogers 8X
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(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
OH GREAT and MIGHT NATEDOG! THANKS YOUUUUUUUUU!!!!!
To quote my baby in his immortal words of saying THANKS:
"AHH! Me left a Stinky!"
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Is this ver of the f4u faster?
// -nr-1-
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aAs Windle pointed out elsewhere, this is the
-1D with cannons.
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Spinny, VF-17, The Jolly Rogers 8X
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It won't have to be. One pass and death.
Any history buffs know what cannon were used? Don't have my sources here at work, but didn't they use Hispano's? If so, that is going to be some serious firepower (and the "Big Blue" is going to be the terror of the skies!).
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Life is gonna get harder for buff drivers. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
popeye
ps. Just for the record, I been a Hog driver since it was introduced, so don't lump me in with the UberHOcannonWeenie hordes that will soon be flying it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Where's the four cannon Spitfire then? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Cannons were the Hispano Mk.2
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Mhhhhh, I like the sound of this...
What about Ammo count ?
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Saint
DCO 186th Wardogs (Falcon4 Squad)
http://www.wardogs.org/ (http://www.wardogs.org/)
"Firepower Mate, that is what separates the men from the boys..."
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If It's a 1-c it is the same plane with cannon. Anyone know howmuch 4 hispano cannons and ammo weigh comparied to 6 50's and ammo? The weight difference if any will effect speed and climb.
can't wait to try it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
see ya on line
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The ammo for the 50s weighs 560 lbs, and each gun weighs about 100 lbs, so about 11-1200 lbs for the armament in the -1D. Don't know about the weights in the -1C, but each gun had 400 rounds of ammo, I believe.
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Spinny, VF-17, The Jolly Rogers 8X
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Originally posted by spinny:
Don't know about the weights in the -1C, but each gun had 400 rounds of ammo, I believe.
Oh.....My......Gosh!.......
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<drip...sizzle...drip...sizzle ...> The sound of drool hitting my keyboard (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Sabre (a.k.a. Rojo)
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When 190D12, D13 or Ta-152 is to come?
Fish wants to play with cannons and fast plane.
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Hehe did someone say, 190d9 or 190D12
Wahoo Bring it on more plane more planes
Bash
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Hey Kid,
I know how dire is your need to prove to the rest of us that you are a consummate Luftwobble snob, but if you could leave your misplaced patriotism in the storage locker for a few missions, try the F4U-1C when it comes out. Really, just because we won the war doesn't mean that we wont share them with ya. :)
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Swoosh of the Skeleton Crew
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I was incorrect re the armament weight in the -1D: the ammo weighs about 823 lbs (2350 rounds @ 35 lbs/100 rounds).
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No matter what you puit in it, the Hog will still be the ugliest plane around (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I resemble that remark! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Those big purty gull wings and awsome blue paint is a hell of a lot better looking than that UGLY 109 you fly Hristo. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
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Nah, it just looks like a blue mix of a Stuka and Thunderbolt (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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To interrupt the love-fest, I'm a bit dismayed that, with the game needing so many more planes, it was decided to include a plane which had a measly production run of 200 in the game..particularly with no RPS or usage restrictions.
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I'll bet there were more fully operational -1Cs than Georges (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Spinny, VF-17, The Jolly Rogers 8X
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Torgo-
I'll bite.
I'm glad we are at least taking a different production path than BrandW- else why would anyone change? I love the La5FN, C205V, N1K2J, B26.... they are some of my favorite rides. I am confident we will see even more exotic aircraft as time goes on.
Ta152? Sure! Lancaster? Why not? Il-2? You bet! La7? The sooner the better!
More is always better IMHO. I'm going to fly every new plane they make regardless, as that is one of the things I like about flight sims, the opportunity to test out various historic aircraft in combat. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Hmmm.... Spinny.
I will take that bet (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
1,435 Shindens were built versus 200 -1C's.
Now the Shinden had a poor operational record, but I don't think that only 1 of 7 were actually flow in Combat. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
Dicta Verm: "Never give the suckers an even break!" or translated "Never engage without an advantage"
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It was hyperbole (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)...but Joe Baugher indicates that only 1007 N1K1-J (including prototypes) were built. I take it the model 11A is the one we have (the earlier Model 11 had fuselage-mounted machine guns), he doesn't give figures for the 11 vs the 11A.
He does say this, though: "The N1k1-J [while an outstanding plane] was...not without its faults. Operations were plagued by frequent undercarriage malfunctions, the complex double-retraction landing gear causing lots of problems. Aircraft availability was frequently limited by insufficient maintenance crews and by logistics problems. the Homare engine was rather unreliable and was a maintenance headache...."
Anyway, fighting squadrons were equipped with the -1C and did see action. Don't begrudge us poor Navy/Marine pilots our one cannon-armed bird (not that I think you are, Verm (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ).
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Spinny, VF-17, The Jolly Rogers 8X
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Poor Buff Drivers
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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!!! Heater !!!
Shit Happens All The Time
If you have any trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done."
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La5FN, C205V, N1K2J, B26 exotic?
There were a jillion La-5s and B-26s built that saw combat. Just because people haven't modeled them much before doesn't mean they're exotic.
I'm just worried about the possible philosophy change the 1C may represent...
Is it gonna be variants/planes WB doesn't have at any price? Great if it's the C205 and La-5, but get into obscure variants with tiny runs and I worry.
By a huge margin it's the smallest production run of any WB/AH plane or variant cranked out, I believe. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)
Sure, people love the Corsair. It was my favorite plane as a kid (largely due to my Black Sheep TV obsession..I was just the right age for that show.)
It's just gonna bother me to see an arena filled with the things when, by any possible consideration, they were insignificant in WWII.
I'd rather see the F4U-4 with 6x.50...a lot more of those built, at least.
Sure, the Shinden ended up being pretty insignificant, but 1000 is still 5 times more than 200...
I hope the IAR-80 is next, though, if we are gonna have AC THIS obscure :-)
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Actually, there were only 262 C205Vs built..
So it's reasonably close to the F4U-1C in numbers..
However it:
1) Appeared in 1943 and stayed in combat the rest of the war, with the Italian allied forces. The 1C didn't see combat till April 1945 and I vaguely remember reading something about them having extreme problems with the cannons icing up at altitude which limited their use.)
2) Is the only Italian plane.
3) Earlier models of Italian fighters like the 202 which had a 1,200 run would be utterly worthless without a RPS and there's no indication AH will have one soon.
So, the 205V bothers me a lot less than the F4U-1C...and, additionally, due to the fact it's older than the balance of the AH plane set it's not like it's seen in the arena in vast numbers.
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I'm a bit dismayed that, with the game needing so many more planes, it was decided to include a plane which had a measly production run of 200 in the game..particularly with no RPS or usage restrictions.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/confused.gif) FWIW, I'm with Torgo ...
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There is no doubt that this plane will be used very much. Especially in first days after it gets introduced.
AH still has considerbale bunch of pure HOers that simply drool for a plane like that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
The percentage of that ugly thing in the arena will surely be higher than it was in WW2.
However, bring it in. But don't provide LW with old desings like early 109s. We want something rare too. You know what that is (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I wonder how many pilots dislike the F4u-1D in the arena right now because its guns are too wimpy? How many more dislike it because it has no rear visibility, is a horrible turner, doesn't climb well... and has too many other issues to list.
Adding the cannons will make it a little more lethal. People will want to fly it at first to see how lethal it is. They will quickly discover it doesn't matter how powerful the cannons are... you still have to get the enemy in the sites to get a kill.
Ass for buff hunting... wouldn't that be a pitty to have to have escorts when you fly a solo buff to destroy an entire base?
So, regardless of how powerfull the canons are... or how many/few were made.. this plane is not going to rule the arena. It won't even be a distant 3rd. Allow the F4u faithfull to have their one wish and fly with cannons. They've endured long enough and are somewhat deserving for all they've had to put up with.
AKDejaVu
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Torgo,
I'd RATHER see the REAL history makers, Birdcage -1, and the -1A, 3 tone paint schemes and all !! AND for those that cry about the bombs, unless the field built rack was installed, these versions did not carry a bomb worth more than a paper weight. No water injection on the -1 either.
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Drdoyo, Lt.
VF-17 the Jolly Rogers
8X
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HOG !
'nuff said 8)
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Phillip "Duckwing6" Artweger
Flight Officer "E" Flight
Skeleton Crew (http://www.picknowl.com.au/homepages/oneshot/main.htm)
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Torgo-
Obviously I mispoke.
When I say exotic, it is in two contxts:
1.) From the currently modeled in any sim aspect, and;
2.) Future possibilities of little known/used aircraft.
I like the representing of history as well as anyone. Would I like to see a Hawk 75 vs. A5M match-up? You bet! Anyone seen it somewhere? Neither plane is exotic in the historic sense, but point to a sim that models them. P63? Not exotic, until you find someone modeling it. That is my point. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
AH isn't WB or AW or FA, nor should it strive to be IMHO. You have a valid point of view, basing all entries relative to their numeric production. Still, that will give us basically WB/AW/FA all over again, won't it?
....and for early, early war, the IAR-80 would be fine...
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Duh. Just noticed that we have the N1K2-J...Baugher indicates only 415 of the beauties were produced. BTW, in English, Shiden is Violet Lightening...lovely name.
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Spinny, VF-17, The Jolly Rogers 8X
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As a dedicated Hawg driver I am glad to see a variant out there. I figured the 1C would be last thing modeled so imagine my surprise (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Tho I will continue to fly the 1D as my regular ride and maybe the 1C to buff hunt.
As for production numbers phoey on them. If the plane isn't done in another game or adds flare to the game then make it. Who cares if 3 aces flew it in WWII. I can get just about any WWII game and fly the same planes with different FMs. AH is offering something new out there by getting off the beaten path and giving us some less produced but still great planes. If it makes it interesting put em in. I would rather see true to life FM and a real challenge as a SIM then FMs porked down to make it playable.
S!
Rocket
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The Red Dragons
Fierce and Bold
With Honour and Courage
_______________________
www.reddragons.de
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The planes that have been ignored by other games aren't the "less produced" ones..
The Shturmovik had the largest production run EVER for any military AC in any era.
There are all kinds of planes that were produced in many thousands, saw lots of combat, that have yet to be modeled in any sim.
And you have to make a distinction between whole new planes, variants of planes that are REALLY different in game terms, and variants that don't make that much difference in game terms.
If you have plane X that had a 2,000 production run, but in 10 variants that aren't all THAT different, of 200 planes each, then you obviously have to pick ONE variant and that variant will be modeling a plane with a 200 run but REPRESENTING the whole run.
While the NIK2 was greatly improved over the N1K1, it had basically the same engine and same armament, the sorts of things improved were the sorts of things that AH doesn't really model, like landing gear collapse.
I'll grant that it's probably a bit more durable and the flight characteristics a tad different due to the wing position.
And they HAD to pick ONE of the Shidens to model.
I submit the cannon Corsair is much more different in game terms to the regular Corsair than the N1K2 to the NIK1.
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well it become hard now to survyve, maybe
TYPHON can help to kill the Quakebird ?
:-))
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Now Spinny, why would I begrudge you your -1C ? Thats not my point in the least, hell... If anything I am looking forward to it myself (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
The approx. 1,400 number for the Shinden (yes its a cool name (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ) was for all variants including the K1,K2,K3,K4, & K5. But there were only a handful of the K3-K5 variants, less than 30 all together if I remember correctly. The reason I included the variants together (specifically the K1 and K2) is that for our purposes, their performance is very similar, similar to the 109F4 and 109G2, even though the landing gear and mounting points for the wing were totally different.
Right now, I fly the P-51 myself over the F4U-1 only because it has better visibility and a slightly better acceleration. With the -1C , I will probably become a CannonHog dweeb myself. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif) Especially if the AAA and strat is ever tuned to make JABO runs effective.
What I find amusing is that the people that complain the most about cannon armed Corsairs, tend to be Luftwaffe 190 types. Its like they think x4 20mm armaments should be reserved for their rides alone. The amusing part is that if you get very deep into 190 history, is that you find that while x4 20mm were not rare, many many many operational 190's actually had only x2 20mm's, to save on weight and increase performance.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
Dicta Verm: "Never give the suckers an even break!" or translated "Never engage without an advantage"
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I personally am tired of people whining about *having* aircraft. Period. Fly the damn planes or or don't. It's a personal choice.
If it's not here. Lobby for it.
If it is here? Good. It's one more on the list of aircraft available.
I'd only really be concerned is if AH folks went suddenly dumb (which they haven't) and added a real imbalancing plane to the match without a counterpart.
IE: TA-152 but no P47-M or Tempest...
And fwiw (not much) I love the Corsiar they have now. The 4 cannon jobber would be nice for anti buff missions and ground attack.
--Westy