Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: opus on August 24, 2004, 09:16:39 PM
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Who'd have thunk?
Seriously, that is the first message I've seen removed from the OC for being flame bait. So now do you go down the list of Bush and Kerry threads and search for flame bait?
You know its quite possible to ruin even a ribeye steak if you keep handling it until you you squish all the juice out of it.
What is it - things getting boring over there? Heve people in the OC shown a lack of competence in dealing with controversial topics?
Scary - really scary.
Oh well - who cares. Just wanna know if thats how its going to stay - certain topics will be removed if not "twinky/fast food/koolaid" enough so as not to offend any 12 year olds reading? Cause if it is, I have a wasted "Favorite places" slot :D
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I'd say "waaaaaaaaaa" to your post but I heard a rumor that can get ya muted. :rolleyes:
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"waaaa" is bad, but "baaaah" is good. So is the senselessness of draconian internet bullying.
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I'm pretty sure that egging on the wrath of skuzzy/HTC does not help your cause of "loosening up" in the OC
BTW....what screen name did you used to be?
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Stop posting, your giving Bloom County a bad name.
Return to the land of unwashed and long-eared.
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>>I'm pretty sure that egging on the wrath of skuzzy/HTC does not help your cause of "loosening up" in the OC
<<
If airing a staunch disagreement with logical reasons backing it up, stated in a concise manner, is subject to wrath - what am I risking? The title of "good sheep"?
My job pays me - I have to eat dung. This is entertainment, and over zealous, condescending moderation sticks in my throat like a bone. It ain't rocket science. Moderators silence the potty mouths. Anything else is a personal agenda.
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Originally posted by opus
>>I'm pretty sure that egging on the wrath of skuzzy/HTC does not help your cause of "loosening up" in the OC
<<
If airing a staunch disagreement with logical reasons backing it up, stated in a concise manner, is subject to wrath - what am I risking? The title of "good sheep"?
My job pays me - I have to eat dung. This is entertainment, and over zealous, condescending moderation sticks in my throat like a bone. It ain't rocket science. Moderators silence the potty mouths. Anything else is a personal agenda.
I was mostly referring to "moderate this" in your sig.
I have no clue what you're saying with the whole "eat dung" statement but I do know moderators to alot more that "silence the potty mouths"
If you dont likem dont post.
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Im not big on this whole moderation thing myself but ya had to see this comming a mile and half away.
I know I did.
Hell we were even warned.
But even beore that just the way the threads were going you just knew it couldnt stay that way.
Each new thread seemed to turn and degrade into a flamefest of epic proportions which went to beyond rediculous. And the boards by and large sunk to new alltime lows.
Seems there are a whole lot of people here who cannot dissagree and debate a subject in a civilised manner without resorting to childlike namecalling and personal attacks
Basically the community brought this upon ourselves.
We were given ALOT of latitude for an awful long time and basically the community abused it to the point where something had to be done
Dispite repeated gentle hints to knock it off and at least one thread warning of this everyone just ignored what was said and did whatever they wanted anyway.
If anyone wants to be mad over this dont be mad at HTC
Be angry with ourselves.
Because it is we the community as a whole that let it go on and get to the point where HTC had no other option but to take the action it did.
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>>Each new thread seemed to turn and degrade into a flamefest of epic proportions which went to beyond rediculous. And the boards by and large sunk to new alltime lows.
<<
The condescention is believing the moderations have to weed out the flames because the average reader is incapable of skipping over the flames. Yes flames take bandwidth, but editing the board comepletely changes its character, and the question lingers - "am i getting the whole story?"
I think editing ( beyond removing obscenity) creates more problems than it fixes.
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Also HTC is a business not just a free place on the net to flame away.
There have allready been incidents of poeple getting sued for slanderous (or is it libalous) posts made on message boards.
Dont you think The Hightech crew has better things to do (IE working on patches, new planes) than to worry about a legal defense or patrolling their boards for idiots that might damage their business.
Maybe a new customer visits said boards and decides that this game just isnt for him after seeing the o'club's attitude.
that's why this place needs moderators.
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I personally blame the democrats and european democrat wanna-be's for bringing the censorship on.
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>>There have allready been incidents of poeple getting sued for slanderous (or is it libalous) posts made on message boards.
<<
Er, you do know you can't legaly slander a pseudonym right?
If you said opus killed his family and stole all their money, I couldn't sue you. FYI
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sueing people is one thing, winnign the lawsuit is another...
the proof would be next to impossible to say that a person said it.
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Originally posted by opus
>>There have allready been incidents of poeple getting sued for slanderous (or is it libalous) posts made on message boards.
<<
Er, you do know you can't legaly slander a pseudonym right?
If you said opus killed his family and stole all their money, I couldn't sue you. FYI
It has allready happend look it up on google.
I really dont think a board moderator is "the man" trying to repress your freedoms so get over it.
Whine all you want its their business and their board. You dont like it dont post.
sueing people is one thing, winnign the lawsuit is another...
the proof would be next to impossible to say that a person said it.
You dont have to lose a law suit for it to cost you money....
Wouldnt you rather have that time and money going into product development?
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Also HTC is a business not just a free place on the net to flame away.
There have allready been incidents of poeple getting sued for slanderous (or is it libalous) posts made on message boards.
Dont you think The Hightech crew has better things to do (IE working on patches, new planes) than to worry about a legal defense or patrolling their boards for idiots that might damage their business.
Maybe a new customer visits said boards and decides that this game just isnt for him after seeing the o'club's attitude.
that's why this place needs moderators.
Forget event he lawsuits.
As you put it HTC is a buisness. the stuff that was being spewed all over the boards was not exactly the kind of advertising I'd want for my buisness.
Also in effect this is HTC's house. We pay to play the game..period. Ther is no charge for posting on the boards.
But this is still HTC's house.
And just as in my house I make the rules and my rule is law and my law is absolute. And if you dont like it, leave.
So it is with HTC here.
And there it is. bottom line
Just like going into a bar. If anyone went inot a bar and started raising the kind of nonsence that goes on the boards here we would be as a comedian once said "tossed outside like a frisbee".
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Just like going into a bar. If anyone went inot a bar and started raising the kind of nonsence that goes on the boards here we would be as a comedian once said "tossed outside like a frisbee".
Its funny you mention bar. The "O'club" is named after a "Bar" of sorts.
Most bars I've worked at have standing policy no politics no religion. Take away those two subjects and most of the posts in here would in fact be very bland.
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>>As you put it HTC is a buisness. the stuff that was being spewed all over the boards was not exactly the kind of advertising I'd want for my buisness.
<<
Fine - is that what this is? Advertisment? I thought it was community. If "community" is just a euphemism for advertisement, I find it slightly dishonest - my bad for not bing cynical enough to suspect spam.
>>Also in effect this is HTC's house. We pay to play the game..period. Ther is no charge for posting on the boards.
<<
But HTC's house is built on ground paved by democratic ideals. There is no *legal* reason for HTC to foster open communication or democratic ideals, but I believe there is an ethical reason. The ethical reasaon is they couldn't exist without them and shouldn't want to squander them for their personal profit, and wanting to would indicate an immense character flaw.
Up until a couple of years ago, physicians had no *legal* duty to inform patients of successful treatments if the HMO they were employed by didn't cover the treatments. They definitely had an *ethical* duty to do so. Thankfully, in most states, they now have a legal duty to do so.
Thats not completely off topic. It illustrates the last ditch argument of legal resposibility. Ethical responsibility is a much better reasoning tool.
The legal resposibility is not much more than CYA, or pork filled words laden with loopholes that once has some semblance of ethics before being butchered by intelectual thugs .
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Steve, where would you rate this on the whine-o-meter?
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Originally posted by Bodhi
I personally blame the democrats and european democrat wanna-be's for bringing the censorship on.
(http://www.gravett.org/pc/archives/071404.gif)
:rofl
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I think we're all capable of behaving civilly, which is all that Pyro is asking us to do. We've all been here long enough that we know what's expected, and most of us have no problem with it and post without reservation within the guidelines.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Im not big on this whole moderation thing myself but ya had to see this comming a mile and half away.
I know I did.
Hell we were even warned.
But even beore that just the way the threads were going you just knew it couldnt stay that way.
Each new thread seemed to turn and degrade into a flamefest of epic proportions which went to beyond rediculous. And the boards by and large sunk to new alltime lows.
Seems there are a whole lot of people here who cannot dissagree and debate a subject in a civilised manner without resorting to childlike namecalling and personal attacks
Basically the community brought this upon ourselves.
We were given ALOT of latitude for an awful long time and basically the community abused it to the point where something had to be done
Dispite repeated gentle hints to knock it off and at least one thread warning of this everyone just ignored what was said and did whatever they wanted anyway.
If anyone wants to be mad over this dont be mad at HTC
Be angry with ourselves.
Because it is we the community as a whole that let it go on and get to the point where HTC had no other option but to take the action it did.
I have to agree with DREDIOCK. SIR
To me freedom of speach is great but freedom, any freedom, requires self control and responsibilty or it becomes a sort of tyranny for all others.
Pretty sure you can say anything you want if you think about how to say it first and then say it. This means name calling is out. Personel attacks are out. ETC....
Angering the other person/persons does little good anyway. In fact it can create an enemy where you might of had a friend that disagreed with you.
With some of the post I've seen on this bbs, I see in my mind those wild eyed spit flying from their mouths, screaming in your face, shouldn't be trusted with a spoon in their hand cause they may try to attack you with it, or hurt themselves, fanatic types. Not saying any of them are but that's what comes to mind.
Passion? Hey we all tend to get fired up over something. BUT out of control is just that out of control.
Post away but maybe try and think about how you would react to someone using your words on you? Would you really say that if the other person was standing nose to nose with you?
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Originally posted by opus
>>As you put it HTC is a buisness. the stuff that was being spewed all over the boards was not exactly the kind of advertising I'd want for my buisness.
<<
Fine - is that what this is? Advertisment? I thought it was community. If "community" is just a euphemism for advertisement, I find it slightly dishonest - my bad for not bing cynical enough to suspect spam.
>>Also in effect this is HTC's house. We pay to play the game..period. Ther is no charge for posting on the boards.
<<
But HTC's house is built on ground paved by democratic ideals. There is no *legal* reason for HTC to foster open communication or democratic ideals, but I believe there is an ethical reason. The ethical reasaon is they couldn't exist without them and shouldn't want to squander them for their personal profit, and wanting to would indicate an immense character flaw.
Up until a couple of years ago, physicians had no *legal* duty to inform patients of successful treatments if the HMO they were employed by didn't cover the treatments. They definitely had an *ethical* duty to do so. Thankfully, in most states, they now have a legal duty to do so.
Thats not completely off topic. It illustrates the last ditch argument of legal resposibility. Ethical responsibility is a much better reasoning tool.
The legal resposibility is not much more than CYA, or pork filled words laden with loopholes that once has some semblance of ethics before being butchered by intelectual thugs .
It's no different than a mall owner being responsible for what happens in his mall or parking lot.
If crime is being commited or if there is a disturbance in the parkinglot people might not want to shop their.
Whine all you want but this board belongs to Hitech. He pays for the bandwidth...server...software ect. It has his name on it and if it gives his business a bad name than it is not benificial for Hitechcreations.
If this "community" turns into a bad neighborhood that no one wants to go their it could hurt his business.
I dont personally speak for this company but if an admin were to respond I think they'd tell you pretty much the same thing I did.
Again Whine all you want.....If you dont like the rules dont post here. Nobody will miss you!
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Interesting a guy talking about honesty and taking pot shots at the moderators, is not honest enough himself to post who he was and what got him banned.
:rolleyes:
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blablabla....
Control freaks, freaks control, control control, make sure you handle all situations with civility and control, you fuggin utopian freaks:aok
a studmuffin, is a studmuffin know matter how beautiful you paint the picture, still a studmuffin:cool:
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>>It has allready happend look it up on google.
<<
ER no it hasn't and I don't have to look it up. A pseudonym can't meet the definition of slander - period. Don't confuse pseudonyms with *registered* trademarks.
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>>Whine all you want but this board belongs to Hitech. He pays for the bandwidth...server...software ect. It has his name on it and if it gives his business a bad name than it is not benificial for Hitechcreations.
<<
Well babble all you like. Insults don't pass as logic to anyone with a IQ over 80. I see a lot of complaints about whinning (whatever the hell that subjective characterization is),. but none about babbling drivel. If you have a point, make it. Don't waste my time with how you personaly rate an argument or point - I really don't care if its not backled up with evidence or logic.
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>>Interesting a guy talking about honesty and taking pot shots at the moderators, is not honest enough himself to post who he was and what got him banned.
<<
Keep up, will you. I've taken no pot shots at moderators - I have voiced criticism and reasons for the criticism. It wasn't MY post that was removed (get out of school yard why don't you). It was a post stating that Iraq was a failure and removed for being flame bait. Personaly I don't think Iraq is a failure, but some mainstream columnists have asked this very questrion. It is certainly a valid argument, whether you agree or not. To have it removed as flame bait, shows a certain ignorance of the debate surrounding Iraq.
Got it now? Wasn't my post or about a post I even agreed with. I have no vested interest in the post. Its about open communication, or a democratic ideal. I don't need someone who doesn't recognize the debate of Iraq being a failure and why (as misinformed as it may be), editing what I'm reading.
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Originally posted by opus
Well babble all you like. Insults don't pass as logic to anyone with a IQ over 80. I see a lot of complaints about whinning (whatever the hell that subjective characterization is),. but none about babbling drivel. If you have a point, make it. Don't waste my time with how you personaly rate an argument or point - I really don't care if its not backled up with evidence or logic.
The funny thing about law suits is that you dont have to prove anything to file one. All you gotta do is show up in court.
A buddy of mine had to hire a lawyer for a suit once and for a weeks work it cost him 5Gs in lawyer bills. All for a frivilous suit.
you want to pick and choose what to respond to because you know you are wrong on everything else than fine waist our time with your self described "dribble"
I'm not trying to silence you because I think you are dumb, I'm telling you what the rules are and if you dont want to follow them dont post. You can complain all you want about how much you dont like them but when it all boils down to it you dont own this forum.
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Originally posted by opus
>>Interesting a guy talking about honesty and taking pot shots at the moderators, is not honest enough himself to post who he was and what got him banned.
<<
Keep up, will you. I've taken no pot shots at moderators - I have voiced criticism and reasons for the criticism. It wasn't MY post that was removed (get out of school yard why don't you). It was a post stating that Iraq was a failure and removed for being flame bait. Personaly I don't think Iraq is a failure, but some mainstream columnists have asked this very questrion. It is certainly a valid argument, whether you agree or not. To have it removed as flame bait, shows a certain ignorance of the debate surrounding Iraq.
Got it now? Wasn't my post or about a post I even agreed with. I have no vested interest in the post. Its about open communication, or a democratic ideal. I don't need someone who doesn't recognize the debate of Iraq being a failure and why (as misinformed as it may be), editing what I'm reading.
wasnt your post title "neocon treason" if that's not a troll I don't know what is. You can lie to everyone else but when you lie to yourself well who are you really fooling?
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Then go find a non moderated forum.
This board belongs to Hitech, you can make all the arguments you want about censorship on this board being against a democratic ideal, it will not mater.
This is their board; they moderate it how they see fit.
You have no free speech on a company’s property.
Try something like http://www.flamevault.com/ (http://www.flamevault.com/)
What do you hope to accomplish here?
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>>What do you hope to accomplish here?
<<
Moderation as opposed to the overuse of "magic powers" simply because one *can*. Of course that goes on in just about every MUD on the net. But I really don't think this is just another MUD- I hope not - I dont think so as there is so much history behind its evolution. I mean a lot of people in this game have met face to face and know each other. The heavy handed moderation needs to stop in my VERY humble opinion. You'd think removing the obscene posts would pretty much take care of problems
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>>wasnt your post title "neocon treason" if that's not a troll I don't know what is. You can lie to everyone else but when you lie to yourself well who are you really fooling?<<
And you could just be flat wrong. IP adresses show up to administrators. They know who is posting what, and they know exactly who I am.
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Your wasting your time.
I do not think anything you post here is going to change the way moderation is done.
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>>You have no free speech on a company’s property<<
Exactly - legaly you have no right to free speech on a company's property (but you do maintain certain civil liberties regardless of ownership of property). I have not once mentioned it was a legal right. I have asked if its *ethical* for a business prospering under the protection of the United States to trample on the democratic ideals the United States was founded upon.
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>>I do not think anything you post here is going to change the way moderation is done.
<<
There's a 99.999% chance you're right. But if guaranteed success was a criteria to do something, we'd still be banging flint.
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Ok advertising might not have been the right word.
But I know that if I were HTC I wouldnt want anyone who was interested in the game seeing the kind of unrestrained nonsence that was going on here for a while.
Just leaves a bad impresssion.
I've seen evrything from personal attacks on just about any subject to flames of newbs for simply asking a newb type question.
Honestly Im kinda surprised HTC didnt drop the hammer sooner.
In my 20 years of online computing in various forms I have not been to a single board or BBS where the kind of stuff that was tolerated here for so long. Would be tolerated for so long if at all. Not one.
The attitude no matter where I've been has always been of
"This is my board these are my rules. Post anything you want so long as they fit into my rules or, dont post at all and go somewhere else or create your own board"
Really its as simple as that. As I said before. this is HTC's house HTCs rules we can either live by them and post according to those rules or not post here at all.
They dont have to be democratic about it
Now im a pretty easy going guy but
I know inside my house one of my favorite sayings is
" This is not a democracy this is a military dictatorship, and you aint the dictator, I am now you can follow these rules or get the bleep out"
And I've told this to anyone from my family and friends to my inlaws. One of which I indeed have "Tossed out like a frisbee" when he got too far out of hand.
Meaning MY rules arent subject to vote or debate.
Hasnt always been nice but it has kept order.
Same holds true here.
We dont have to like it but.
We can either live by HTCs rules or get out. Simple as that. Thats our choice
Could always go to Yahooo and create your own board.
then you can make the rules or not have any at all
thats a choice too