Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 25, 2004, 07:34:53 AM
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Kerry has demanded Bush and the RNC stop 527 groups opposed to Kerry/Edwards, and that Bush denounce the Swift Vets.
However, on his own site, they actually almost brag about Moveon.org and the Media Fund (gotta wonder about that one, you know the media is supposedly unbiased) being Kerry's answer to Bush and others.
I guess it is all fine and good to be a 527 that opposes Bush, that is an example of free speech and good solid campaign tactics. But to be a 527 that opposes Kerry is to run and smear and fear campaign, is illegal, and must be shut down by the FEC.
See link to Kerry's site and read the article there openly stating the Kerry campaign's admission that those 527's are answering on Kerry's behalf against Bush:
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/news/news_2004_0313.html
Sure, the article is from earlier this year, but show me where Kerry has denounced ANY of those 527's or their tactics. Ever. He has not. But he and Edwards are so hypocritical as to say Bush should denounce the Swift Boat Veterans, and the FEC should shut them down and place sanctions on Bush and the RNC.
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Campaign finance laws can only be enforced against Republicans. It's in the fine print.
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I don't believe the Moveon.org's stuff was a 527 issue. They're independent.
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While Kerry has not been on the air anywhere since locking up the Democratic nomination March 2, two liberal interest groups - the Media Fund and the MoveOn.org Voter Fund - have been, assailing the president and serving as the Democrats' answer to Bush.
If he doesn't heed his own call to action against 527s, he certainly would be a hypocrite. I'm guessing he won't.
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http://www.democrats.org/wvc/weekinreview/200305120002.html
http://www.democrats.org/blog/display/00010183.html
http://www.democrats.org/news/200311140002.html
http://www.democrats.org/blog/comment/00010377.html
http://www.moveon.org/pac/news/best-ad.html
http://www.moveon.org/pac/cands/kerry.html
http://blog.johnkerry.com/blog/archives/000871.html
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I could be wrong... there's a first time for everything... but I believe it was Kerry who asked that a specific ad be denounced, and it was Kerry who denounced 2 specific ads by a 527 (Bush is Hitler and Bush's Guard Service). It was Bush who made the general sweeping statement regarding 527's so he wouldn't offend his friends in the Swift Boat Veterens for Lies.
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To be honest MT,
The only way to handle it, is to call for all 527's to end. Unless you like to cherry pick, that is.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I don't believe the Moveon.org's stuff was a 527 issue. They're independent.
moveon is 527 - the biggest (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1188284/posts)
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I could be wrong... there's a first time for everything... but I believe it was Kerry who asked that a specific ad be denounced, and it was Kerry who denounced 2 specific ads by a 527 (Bush is Hitler and Bush's Guard Service). It was Bush who made the general sweeping statement regarding 527's so he wouldn't offend his friends in the Swift Boat Veterens for Lies.
of course he can "denounce" it, he has every other handsomehunkcrat screaming from the highest hill saying they are the truth - LOL
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
...Sure, the article is from earlier this year, but show me where Kerry has denounced ANY of those 527's or their tactics. Ever. He has not. But he and Edwards are so hypocritical as to say Bush should denounce the Swift Boat Veterans, and the FEC should shut them down and place sanctions on Bush and the RNC.
This should surprise no one.
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Kerry Takes Fight Over Vietnam Ads to Bush's Ranch (http://news.myway.com/top/article/id/422708|top|08-25-2004::02:14|reuters.html)
what a sad way to gain support ...
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Originally posted by Eagler
moveon is 527 - the biggest (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1188284/posts)
Ah, thks. I was thinking of F911...
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People should have th right to organise fundraising mechanisms and spend that money in lawful advertising. Let the swiftboats and moveon do as they see fit. I have the ability to filter out the nonesense without kerry or bush impeding each others ability to lie and deceive.
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John McCain doesn't agree.
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(http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040825/i/r941090443.jpg)
both sides made the rules, now only one side is crying about them ...
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Originally posted by Eagler
(http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040825/i/r941090443.jpg)
both sides made the rules, now only one side is crying about them ...
Well, you sure are.
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He's crying about the crying. That's different.
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Why should Bush give a rats bellybutton what Kerry "Demands"?
He said he was against ALL 527 ads so why does he have to single out anyone?
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(http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040825/s/r943913422.jpg)
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Originally posted by Eagler
Kerry Takes Fight Over Vietnam Ads to Bush's Ranch (http://news.myway.com/top/article/id/422708|top|08-25-2004::02:14|reuters.html)
And in a related development, Fox News reports that Calvary Veterans for Truth have discovered that Max Cleland was actually never in Vietnam.
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This all sounds like "YOUR LIARS ARE WORSE THAN MY LIARS"
I seriously think Kerry is showing his bellybutton here all partisanship aside.
If he wants to fight these adds dont whine kick and scream about them....give a quick mention about how some wholes have been picked through in their (SBVFT) storys and change the subject quickly.
Most vets that hate him hate him for his 72 atrocities speech (wich you can debate all you want but alot of vets still hate him for it)
What's even more amusing is everytime I hear kerry or one of his people bring up these adds they allways say they want to stick to the issues and bring up millions of jobs lost and all of Bush's faults...then they go back to kicking and screaming on how Bush is totally behind these adds.
Didnt Max Cleland today say it was a "proven fact" that he was.....That to me sounds like hearsay....I havnt seen anything proven yet.
Kerry needs to change tactices in a way in wich it doesn sound like he's bowing away from the fight.
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Well Cleland trumps Dole by a 2 legs.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I don't believe the Moveon.org's stuff was a 527 issue. They're independent.
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aIeXxo.8.2lI&refer=us
The above article shows a comparison between 527's, money raised, money spent, and on behalf of whom.
I'll give you three guesses which side has the most 527's and has raised the most money. The first two guesses don't count.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Well Cleland trumps Dole by a 2 legs.
Unless that's a joke about a disabled veteran missing an arm and both legs I hardly see what dole has to do w/ the conversation.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
If he wants to fight these adds dont whine kick and scream about them....give a quick mention about how some wholes have been picked through in their (SBVFT) storys and change the subject quickly.
I think you're exactly right. The fact that Kerry is pressing the issue, thus keeping it in the news (it really only ran in 3 states), means that the Kerry team sees a gain in doing so. Prolly focus grouped it. At this level, nothing's an accident, and nothing is purely reactionary.
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The truth hurts, distorted though it may be, and Kerry knows it, even if his handlers do not.
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Originally posted by Lizking
The truth hurts, distorted though it may be, and Kerry knows it, even if his handlers do not.
Truth...
er...
Distorted truth....
er...
"Truth distorted though it may be"....
Righto....
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If Kerry was 100% sure of his facts, he would simply reiterate them instead of attacking the persons making the allegations. wouldn't you?
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I happen to think that the very existence of this type of an attack is beyond reproach. It goes beyond Kerry/Bush. It ropes in the entire military, past/present/future, and calls everything into doubt. It tarnishes every act of service before and beyond. That may be a little extreme, but hey it's what I think.
And all concocted by a man not fit to polish the shoes of a 16 year-old cadet. For short term political gain. The cost being long term damage to a deservingly respected institution.
Now... Me personally... Would I fight Bush on the facts regarding this? I would not. I would call him an arse for this approach. But this angle of attack doesn't merit any substantive point by point defense.
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So, Kerry's questioning of Bush's gaurd record was WAY out of line then?
Kerry is an ultra melon and I can't understand what you see in him. He has done next to nothing in all his years in the Senate, he labeled soldiers in Vietnem war criminals, he says he's for the environment and that "earth day is not just something practiced one day a year, it's a lifestyle" while he himself owns 5 mansions, 2 jets and a VERY large yatch.
Kerry has voted to raise taxes every chance he's had. Kerry is so hollow it's not even funny anymore.
He recently stood at the Grand Canyon in Arizona and proceded to tell the press that the "dimmed vistas "of the grand canyon are due to reckless environmental managment. I guess he didn't care to check that the visibility on that day, as he spoke, was more than 70 miles. The guy is a pathectic joke.
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blah bnlah blah blah blah
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Originally posted by Nash
I happen to think that the very existence of this type of an attack is beyond reproach. It goes beyond Kerry/Bush. It ropes in the entire military, past/present/future, and calls everything into doubt. It tarnishes every act of service before and beyond. That may be a little extreme, but hey it's what I think.
And all concocted by a man not fit to polish the shoes of a 16 year-old cadet.
Who is the man you are refering to? Bush? You are completely uninformed if so. Kerrys actions after he returned pissed alot of nam vets off. If anything what you describe as "It ropes in the entire military, past/present/future, and calls everything into doubt. It tarnishes every act of service before and beyond. That may be a little extreme, but hey it's what I think." is exactly the way many feel about Kerrys anti-war activities. You cant blame bush for the enemies that Kerry himself made in the 70s.
These swift boat guys served honorably for their country and have the right to free speech. Meanwhile the Kerry campaign is faxing letters to TV & radio stations around the country hinting at suing them if they run the adds, and trying to stop the publishing and distribution of their book. That is what is beyond reproach. And they call bush a nazi?
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Nash,
So it is never ok for anyone to question anything about a vets service?
Lets talk hypothetical now.
Say a man claims he is a war hero, he runs for office, and he is in fact not a war hero, never did what he claimed, but did serve. It would be wrong for people to question him if they had evidence of it being faked? )
Case in point was it wrong for people to call out Brian Dennehy (actor first blood etc) when he claimed he was a marine vet and I think he claimed to have served in vietnam?
link (http://www.roanoke.com/roatimes/news/story158445.html)
(this is not the case with Kerry, OK the cambodia thing is close, but there is enough questionable stuff out there that I do not know the truth in his case
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Originally posted by Nash
Now... Me personally... Would I fight Bush on the facts regarding this? I would not. I would call him an arse for this approach. But this angle of attack doesn't merit any substantive point by point defense.
that's just it nash. Most people do not see these as Bush team attack adds. The left and the media have dugg and dugg to find a strong connection and it has been luke warm at best.
Do they (bush/kerry) really dislike these adds against their opponents....I think secretly no but Bush wants all soft money adds to stop and isnt backing down to kerry.
We both agree Kerry is looking like an bellybutton right now.
To top it off the press is just frothing at the mouth at all the juicy political news.
In the end Kerry is screaming and Bush is taking a break nodding his head saying he doesnt like any of this.
What a good day for news!
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Originally posted by Murdr
Who is the man you are refering to? Bush?
No, this man:
(http://www.anselm.edu/nhiop/images2/rove.gif)
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blah blah blah
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lol don't cry Nuke.
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If I cry at all, it's for people like you who see some greatness in Kerry.
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Originally posted by NUKE
If I cry at all, it's for people like you who see some greatness in Kerry.
He is great at flip-flopping.
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Originally posted by Murdr
Who is the man you are refering to? Carl Rove? You are completely uninformed if so. Kerrys actions after he returned pissed alot of nam vets off. If anything what you describe as "It ropes in the entire military, past/present/future, and calls everything into doubt. It tarnishes every act of service before and beyond. That may be a little extreme, but hey it's what I think." is exactly the way many feel about Kerrys anti-war activities. You cant blame bush for the enemies that Kerry himself made in the 70s.
These swift boat guys served honorably for their country and have the right to free speech. Meanwhile the Kerry campaign is faxing letters to TV & radio stations around the country hinting at suing them if they run the adds, and trying to stop the publishing and distribution of their book. That is what is beyond reproach. And they call bush a nazi?
Still says the same thing doesnt it?
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That only contained what, 4 or 5 non sequiturs? Nice work.
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Originally posted by Lizking
If Kerry was 100% sure of his facts, he would simply reiterate them instead of attacking the persons making the allegations. wouldn't you?
No, if Kerry were 100% sure of his facts, 100% proud of his actions, and 100% convinced it would win him the race, he'd disclose all of his records and prove it. Says all you need to say about it.
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Originally posted by Nash
blah bnlah blah blah blah
what skerry speech/promise is that from?
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Whoah Eagler... a lapse?
You forgot to add your signature "LOL".
Too bad, because I liked that "LOL".
I got to picture you, red-faced, with fingers sliding all over the keyboard due to the spit, angry, bitter, and capping the whole rant off with "LOL".
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Nash
What about my question above man...
I feel so ignored!:D
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Originally posted by Nash
Whoah Eagler... a lapse?
You forgot to add your signature "LOL".
Too bad, because I liked that "LOL".
I got to picture you, red-faced, with fingers sliding all over the keyboard due to the spit, angry, bitter, and capping the whole rant off with "LOL".
Nash,
you truly are worried about this whole election aren't you?
Take a step back... Kerry peaked 6 weeks ago, and is starting to smell like the dead mackerrel he is... My bet is Bush wins the election 54% FlipFlop gets 42% and Nadar gets 6%.
Hell, none of this is worth getting up in arms over anyways, the states have long since been controlled by special interest and the president merely enforces those interests....
Night
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Worried about the election?
Hehe, no... I am not worried about the election.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
My bet is Bush wins the election 54% FlipFlop gets 42% and Nadar gets 6%.
I'd bet that you're wrong, and I can tell you right now that I could not possibly lose.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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well yeah, 102% is kinda tough to achieve... :D
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Well with all those people voting twice....
J_A_B
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Originally posted by J_A_B
Well with all those people voting twice..
The dead ones or the live ones?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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"well yeah, 102% is kinda tough to achieve..."
Not any more! The new Diebold Election system can fix that. ;)
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It is not wrong for a lawyer to represent both the DNC/Kerry campaign and any number of pro Kerry/anti Bush 527's.
But it is very wrong for any lawyer to represent a pro Bush/anti Kerry 527, and it is a criminal offense, subject to investigation by the United States Attorney General, for a lawyer to represent a pro Bush/anti Kerry 527 and the RNC or the Bush campaign.
At least that is the way the law reads if you are a lawyer like those described in the first paragraph. See the Associated Press article below.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040826/D84MK0K80.html
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Originally posted by Nash
well yeah, 102% is kinda tough to achieve... :D
think about it... with the way the states in this country have a propensity for screwing up a simple thing like voting...? I bet 102% is easy.
PS Lay off me, I was tired.... that just means FlipFlop will get 41% and Nadar 5%
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Originally posted by Bodhi
PS Lay off me, I was tired.... that just means FlipFlop will get 41% and Nadar 5%
Even Dukakis got something like 45.5 or 45.6% of the popular vote, and he ran an absolutely clueless campaign. Kerry is not by any means running such a helpless campaign at this point. I would consider it extremely unlikely that he would receive anything less than Dukakis numbers even with Nader in the mix.
-- Todd/Leviathn