Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: midnight Target on August 25, 2004, 02:45:30 PM
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With my co-worker. He is a VN vet and former Marine A4 pilot and flight instructor. Served a full tour in VN and flew his compliment of missions.
I had no idea how he felt politically, but we just bumped into each other outside and I asked him... "What's your take on the Swift Boat guys and Kerry?"
He was pretty happy to talk about it. His basic point was interesting. He said he really didn't care about the facts and figures of Kerry's medals or Purple Hearts. What really pissed him off was the basic point the Swifties are making that Kerry cast aspursions on all of them with his statements before the Senate.
He (my co-worker) said that if any of those guys were in country and didn't hear or see anything that Kerry mentioned to the Senate then they are flat out lying sacs o crap. He said that he too did things that were just wrong... Like taking out a freaking city block in his A4 because they were receiving fire from "somewhere in there".
He said that he wished he had the balls to say what Kerry said when he got back. He felt that it might have helped him come to terms with some of his experiences much sooner.
Just a different perspective.
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You mean the same perspective as yours..
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Non republican comments are to be ignored or ridiculed MT. Haven't you caught on yet?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
You mean the same perspective as yours..
Wow... I didn't know MT was a VN vet... He sure ages well.
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He said that he wished he had the balls to say what Kerry said when he got back.
Does he even know what Kerry said?
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Hey MT,
Interesting. Thanks for posting.
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Originally posted by ra
Does he even know what Kerry said?
As a matter of fact he asked me if I had read the transcripts or heard Kerry's 1971 speech. He said it was spot on.
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Originally posted by midnight Target He said that he too did things that were just wrong... Like taking out a freaking city block in his A4 because they were receiving fire from "somewhere in there". [/B]
what's wrong with that?
should they have gone door to door?
do wonder if we'd even have heard of your "interesting conversation" if he'd said skerry was a professional political sack of crap ...
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Great! When does Kerry's warcrimes trial begin?
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Originally posted by Eagler
do wonder if we'd even have heard of your "interesting conversation" if he'd said skerry was a professional political sack of crap ...
Unfortunate that you will never know.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Unfortunate that you will never know.
So basically you are confirming what he said..
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Whats this, MT was an fighter pilot during the VN war?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So basically you are confirming what he said..
Take a valium Grun. You're drooling.
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So you would eagerly share a personal story with us on this BBS if some more or less random vietnam veteran trashed Kerry in a conversation with you?
You know that you wouldnt...
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How dare you post that story, MT. You probably just made it up to make yourself feel better about your position.
PS...Grun, you really do seem to be drooling. If I were you, I'd just go kick his bellybutton for posting.
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Isn’t that cute, MT meets a Vet that acknowledges he's a war criminal and that Kerry is brave for talking pointing that out.
We know that the winter soldier deal was full of fake vets and witnesses of atrocities. We know Kerry lied about being in Cambodia, we know Kerry lied when he admitted to taking part in "search and destroy missions and burning Villages etc..."
John Kerry admits to committing atrocities in Vietnam -- April 18, 1971 (0:31) (http://www.wintersoldier.com/audio/kerry2.mp3)
So MTs friend if he exists he is either full of **** or just telling MT what he wants to hear.
All Kerry did was lie his arse off. Where's the courage in that?
But despite all the evidence to the contrary lets assume Kerry is right and truthful. He's a war criminal. So what's it going to be Dem. War Criminal or Dem. Liar?
http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So you would eagerly share a personal story with us on this BBS if some more or less random vietnam veteran trashed Kerry in a conversation with you?
You know that you wouldnt...
Funny dude. I'm pretty sure I would, but you seem to know me better than I do.
Tell me something. Which shirt will I wear tomorrow? I like to set them out the night before... but you knew that.
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The pink one?
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This thread is sinking faster than a Swifty hit by a couple of 105's.
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If your co-worker did that, then he DID commit a war crime. I kind of doubt it, though, since the rules were exceedingly strict about where they could drop their rd in the North. At any rate, I think most people can distinguish between an honest and effective anti-war protest and the crap that Kerry did.
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Taking out a city block because we were taking fire from somewhere down there.
First we all know , that at least 10 percent of any group will have different views from the rest. Having said that,this was a stupid line you put in your post.
Without this line you might have pasted your post off as truth.
Understand, I hate almost everything you stand for,and without having been introduced to you I dislike you.
But know this. If I knew you as much as I do now,and I was in an a-4, and you asked for help because you and your men were pinned down and taking fire from somewhere down there.....
I would do everything in my power to remove said fire.If possible ,I would stay around to make sure. If I was out of ammo I would do dry runs to keep their heads down so you and your men could escape. You are an American first and a jerk second.
I can not believe a trained a4 pilot would say the above words. Some of the others yes but not those. Character ....you either have it or you dont. Your friend would have washed out long before he finished training with that attitude.
So some one is very likely being dishonest .... you or him.
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lol
I tell you what dinkmaw. He said he was going to go public too. I'll hook you up directly to this particular Marine when he does.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
This thread is sinking faster than a Swifty hit by a couple of 105's.
Now THAT'S funny!
(http://www.gilbertv.com/coppermine/albums/08182004/normal_postsuper.jpg)
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There were no atrocities in Vietnam. All that stuff about burning villages, shooting civilians, and cutting off people's ears was just made up by a bunch of hippies.
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Originally posted by rpm371
Now THAT'S funny!
(http://www.gilbertv.com/coppermine/albums/08182004/normal_postsuper.jpg)
so you and MT hung out together?
no wonder you think alike - LOL
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Ouch! Personal attack?
I just thought Skuzzy made a funny.
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So now Grun knows better than a guy who "was there"... why am I not surprised?
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This thread is Sad.
Midnight Target may be a liberal, but he has been around a long time. I do not agree with him politically in many cases, but I find him one of the most honest and reasonable people on this board, from either side.
Implying he is a liar cause you do not like the message is pretty sad.
Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves.
I would be honored to have a beer with him and his co worker.
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Originally posted by Saintaw
So now Grun knows better than a guy who "was there"... why am I not surprised?
What?
Where do you get this nonsesnse? Go brush up on your english, reread my posts then pleaese take back what you said.
The only think I questionedcwas whether MT would have posted this if the guy slammed Kerry...
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Originally posted by Saintaw
So now Grun knows better than a guy who "was there"... why am I not surprised?
Knows what better than a guy who was there? I didn't see him claim to know anything better than a "guy who was there".
You do know that pleny of "guys that were there" find Kerry disgusting , right?
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
This thread is Sad.
Midnight Target may be a liberal, but he has been around a long time. I do not agree with him politically in many cases, but I find him one of the most honest and reasonable people on this board, from either side.
Implying he is a liar cause you do not like the message is pretty sad.
Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves.
I would be honored to have a beer with him and his co worker.
I agree with this. I dont think MT is lying about the conversation one bit. Though I really doubt he would have posted this so enthusistically had his veteran friend slammed akerry.
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Speaking for myself, I have nothing but respect for MT and his co-worker. That in no way means that I must agree with what either says.
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Liz,
Exactly!
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
The pink one?
That made me chuckle.
I will admit I wouldn't be as "enthusiastic" had the story run counter to my feelings, but I'm sure I would have posted it. I've wanted to get his feelings on the issue for a while, but I was hesitant to bring up political stuff at work.
Not that it will matter to some, but the conversation was very real, the quote about the "city block" was almost exact, although I didn't carry a tape recorder with me.
Thank you to those who are backing my honesty if not my politics. It is appreciated.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
That made me chuckle.
I will admit I wouldn't be as "enthusiastic" had the story run counter to my feelings, but I'm sure I would have posted it. I've wanted to get his feelings on the issue for a while, but I was hesitant to bring up political stuff at work.
Not that it will matter to some, but the conversation was very real, the quote about the "city block" was almost exact, although I didn't carry a tape recorder with me.
Thank you to those who are backing my honesty if not my politics. It is appreciated.
What else would you wear on a Thursday? :)
But yea, I'll gladly back you up on this story being true as you heard it and relayed it to us - no reason to lie about it.
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MT,
I honestly think that's an interesting perspective that guy provides. I never thaught of how kerry's speech might help peopel find "closure" for things they feel guilty about.
BUT,
Most of the civilians I work with are veitnam vets and have no respect for kerry for doing what he did. 9 out of 10 of them do not support kerry (the 1 that does is all about union labor so naturally he thinks Bush is trying to take his job)
Alot of them actually remember the speech and were surprised he was ever elected to the senate and ashamed that he'd be nominated for the presidency.
They hold him with the same reguards that they hold Jane Fonda.
The stuff the swift boat guys are saying really doesnt mean much to them they think Kerry is scum and half the things the swift boat guys are saying is true. The other have is just a matter of symantics of sorts.
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I'm curious how an A4 pilot would have incite as to what was going on outside of dropping bombs where he was told to.
Alot of the oppinions from people that were in the war on what went on during the war were based on what they heard after the war.
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Originally posted by Mini D
I'm curious how an A4 pilot would have incite as to what was going on outside of dropping bombs where he was told to.
Alot of the oppinions from people that were in the war on what went on during the war were based on what they heard after the war.
All Marine pilots spent at least 30 days on the ground and usually close to the action. He told me of a particular case where he called in a napalm strike within 50 meters of his location. Pilots all did a turn as a forward air control observer.
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Say, what do you guys think the Kerry position is on controlling our borders as opposed to Bush's position?
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Prolly the same as all the rest of our ******* politicians.... more ilegals means more voters for them in the future so, let them come all they want.
I bet this does not change tell terrorists use our open boarders to kill thousands of Americans again.:o
P.S Toad, I smoked a pork lion with "the squeal" hog rub you sent. FANTASTIC!
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I guess I have to explain myself. I have been called everything from a racist to a idiot, to being equal to a kkk type of person by MT. I would assume if I was,.. skuzzy or someone would get rid of me.
I dont care about idiot etc most liberals after about 10 min of serious talk will start calling you names. I do care a little bit about racist. I just consider the source.
Since according to your hero MT, this guy called me a lying sack of crap,..I would love to meet this guy anytime.
If all of you read my post,you would have seen that I said ,in any group of people there are about 10 percent that would do what kerry did. If this person wants to come out let him ,it is his right.
All war is @#$ and I have nothing but respect for all who served in war or not. I have as much respect for the guy who supported his family paid his taxes,did the best he or she could,and never seen a gun .I have no respect for someone like kerry,he was responseable for the added torture of some of my brothers.
I even said if I was a pilot I would answer the call from MT for help. What no one read that either. I said he was American first and a jerk second...no one read that?
Or does everyone here think I should take a possible body count,or put myself in danger flying low to locate the enemys fire,
or better yet just leave because I might kill a couple of women.
If he dropped a bomb for fun then that is a crime,If he dropped it in battle then it was needed.
There is a difference between dishonest and liar.I didnt call either a liar.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
All Marine pilots spent at least 30 days on the ground and usually close to the action. He told me of a particular case where he called in a napalm strike within 50 meters of his location. Pilots all did a turn as a forward air control observer.
Wow.. you were ready for that one...
So much that you simply overlook how little experience this gave him with anything. He was in the air for 11 months, on the ground for 1. Yes... that's all the experience you need to know exactly what went on in Vietnam.
Come on man... you're pressing a weak position for some completely invisible reason. What did this gentleman have experience with that supported a single part of Kerry's testimony? I can answer that one if you'd like.
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Originally posted by demaw1
Since according to your hero MT, this guy called me a lying sack of crap,..I would love to meet this guy anytime.
Then what?
:aok
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Originally posted by Mini D
Wow.. you were ready for that one...
So much that you simply overlook how little experience this gave him with anything. He was in the air for 11 months, on the ground for 1. Yes... that's all the experience you need to know exactly what went on in Vietnam.
Come on man... you're pressing a weak position for some completely invisible reason. What did this gentleman have experience with that supported a single part of Kerry's testimony? I can answer that one if you'd like.
Answer away mini. All I did was relay the conversation.
AND... I'm not pressing any position. You asked how he could have experience other than dropping bombs. He related the napalm story to me a couple of years ago. I think I've even posted it here.
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Don't play coy MT... you were just way too quick with your seemingly prepared responses. It just doesn't work well.
I find it difficult to believe that you simply relay what you hear MT. I believe you simply relay what you like to hear... good or bad... as long as it supports whatever statement of the day you're trying to make on the BBS.
Posting someone else's stories carries more weight than simply conveying a story and you know it.
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OH... and a quick answer to the question:
None.
But then, you already knew that and are just conveying a story.
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Mini - you got the wrong guy....
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Wow MiniD. Did you get beat up by a Girl Scout and feel the need to take it out on MT?
MT's story doesn't prove anything. So everyone with a hard on for Bush probably should just step away form the keyboard and beat off to a picture of Ashcroft.
Grun...damn man, you should stop drinking coffee. It seems to make you rabid. Caffine can be bad for you. I appreciate you defending the right side but you seem a little to eager to pounce.
I respect MT even thought I don't agree with most of his liberal leanings but I thoubht he was just presenting what he thought was another perspective. I am able to accept what he related as simply another perspective from another person. Doesn't mean it's right...doesn't mean it's wrong.
It's kinda sad that everyone jumped him about this so vehemently. Almost like people are scared.
A simple 'I don't belive him' might have sufficed.
Anyway...I'm drunk again and most of you people are acting like idiots in my opinion. So there.;)
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Originally posted by rpm371
Non republican comments are to be ignored or ridiculed MT. Haven't you caught on yet?
I stand by my earlier comment.
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LOL MiniD.
I just have to believe there was some oatmeal pissin going on in Oregon.
Do you honestly think I sat here, concocted a story, then thought up all the possible questions and concocted answers for those, then I lurked on the board so I could answer them really fast... so it would look like I knew them already? Hehe.
I think you've been on "the campus" too long.
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Great post Drunky and thanks! Its good to see a voice of reason from you.. 8)
Wow mini! Way to come on the board and TRY to get a thread locked. Just cause you dont believe or agree with him doesnt give you the right to flame away with unsubstantiated comments. It really doesnt matter what character it shows of you, its just uncalled for... The guy was there and has an opinion.. Or, is he a liar too?
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One thing about the States that i found out when working there a lot, MT, was that it's not uncommon over drinks to engage in small talk about combat with Vets who are in the same generation as yourself.
Up here it's like chatting with a Grandpa who is almost half a century older and on his last legs. You have a big generation gap, sometimes moments seem awkward.
I found down in the states it was like conversing with a favourite uncle. The watermelon chat seemed to have a different tone about it and you could relate more closely in a lot of different ways.
That's one thing most Canadians never experience.
A perfect example is seeing a nice pair of tittys walk by and both commenting, as opposed to having an older Vet look at you funny!
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Drunky + Drunk = Infinite Wisdom. Like Mr. Miyagi, just drunk and unable to do karate.
-SW
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I've avoided commenting on Kerry's statements to Congress concerning war crimes in Viet Nam, but perhaps I can add just a bit of insight into just what John Kerry did.
First of all I'm a pro abortion, anti death penalty Democrat. I'm also a Viet Nam veteran who happened to be "in country" in 1971, the time Kerry was most outspoken against Viet Nam- but understand, by 1971 EVERYBODY was opposed to the war in VN, so it wasn't risky, or controversial, to be opposed to the VN War.
John Kerry stigmatized me, and every other Vet, with his claims we were all war criminals. He painted us to look like sociopathic cowboys, murdering civilians indiscriminately, just to collect an ear for our necklace.
I firmly believe we who served in Viet Nam were no better nor worse than soldiers who have served in any of our other wars... because of John Kerry, and people like him, we were stigmatized to the point where being a Viet Nam vet was something to be ashamed about.
It didn't take courage to denounce the War in 1971- if you're looking for an anti war hero then look at Mohammad Ali, who was stripped of his boxing title and imprisoned for his anti-war stance in 1967- more than four years BEFORE John Kerry came out in opposition to the War.
Basically John Kerry had nothing to lose and a political career to gain by taking what was indeed a populist position by 1971. The annoyance many Vets feel towards Kerry is that he sold all of us out and helped deny us the pride and respect we deserved when we came home.
When I vote for him I'll have to hold my nose.
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Drunky + Drunk = Infinite Wisdom. Like Mr. Miyagi, just drunk and unable to do karate.
-SW
LMAO! :lol :lol :lol
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Thank god we're in America and can express what we like without being chastised(uh, at least sometimes).
:aok