Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: BigMan on August 25, 2004, 05:54:08 PM
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With the Chechen war and all of the atrocities, terroism etc, are other people of the Caucuses getting the fallout..ie christans like Armenians etc?
I saw a report that they are indeed being generaly mistreated by Russian security forces.
That would be Sad, nobody has suffer under the Yoke of Islam like the Christans of the Caucuses.
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Can't disagree with you here, gotta get rid of that opressive yoke of those damned heathen barbarian unchristian islamics! Yea!
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Personal attack
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Personal attack
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I was being sacrastic. Funny how you are so sensitive about racism in one thread but then spout bigoted nonsesnse like "suffer under the Yoke of Islam" when it suites your prejudices!
How bout you stop being obessed with me, so far in your dreanged ignorant rants you balemed me for:
Keeping the black man down.
Keeping white people out of Basketball.
Making the whole world fell less about america.
Maybe you should find a different hobby to keep yourself occupied instaed of whining how I'm to balme for all your troubles in life?
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Its not racism to say that the Christans of the Caucuses have been opressed by Islam.
Ask a Euro. or Russian...they'll tell you.
Sadly, the average American doesn't understand the complexities of this world and wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
GRUNHERZ,
Praise Jesus and Pass the Biscuts
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It's an interesting question.
There are three major Christian nations in Caucasus: Armenians, Georgians and Osetins.
Armenians got their independance in 1992 together with other 14 republics. In 92-93 they had a war with Azerbaijan and won it with assistance from Russia and Iran. Azerbaijan was supported by Turkey, an important NATO member.
Armenian population really suffered in Azerbaijan since 1988. In Jan. 1990 there Armenians were slaughtered in Baku, those who were lucky had to literately run away. Gorby was so kind that he waited for several days to send troops to restore order, waited until there were almost no Armenians left in Baku. Before 1990 Armenians were the second national diaspora in Baku...
Georgia also got intependant in 1992. Their almost-insane nationaly elected president Gamsahurdia started a civil war, and later was overthrown and killed. Old Soviet leader, former USSR Foreign minister Shevardnadze came back to power. At that time three autonomies inside Georgia declared independance: Ajaria didn't start military struggle, but Moslim Abkhazia and Christian Southern Osetia had full-scale war to protect their "independance".
Chechen troops first saw combat and were the main military power on Abkhazian side in 1993. Yeltsin armed Chechens to make them a "sword of Damocles" over Caucasus, but then they went out of control and started genocide against non-Chechen population in their own "republic". Abkhazian war resulted in thousands of Georgian refugees, many people were thrown out of their homes and moved to Georgia and Russia... Russian government almost openly supported Moslim Abkhazians against Christian Georgians there.
Osetia was divided in two parts during Soviet times. Northern Osetia is a part of Russian Federation, Southern - a part of Georgia.
There are Russian peacekeeping forces both in Abkhazia and Southern Osetia. New Georgian president, pro-American Saakashvili is definetly mentaly disabled. He ordered to open fire at the ships that bring Russian tourists to Abkhazian natural resorts... He also provocates hostilities in Southern Osetia. BTW, this time Chechens fight on Georgian side against Osetins. It's obvious, because Georgia hosted their bases in Pankisi Gorge and provided all kinds of assistance to terrorsits. At the same time mr. Rumsfeld stated that US will fight any attempt to threaten Georgia when Russia demanded to stop supporting Chechens :(
The reason for this two nations to fight for independance was general situation in Georgia, proably the worst among all former Soviet republics. Their inflation rates beat all records, income per capita is not enough even for bread :( Now 70-90% of Southern Osetians and Abkhazians have Russian citizenship, they pray on Russian tourists and don't want Georgians to spoil their business.
Caucasian diasporas in Russia are very big. It seems to me that over 50% of Georgian males drive private taxi-cabs in Moscow. Armenians hold shops and Azerbaijanians control market trade. Georgians and Armenians working in Russia produce maybe more then 50% of their countries national income.
I don't pretend to give you a complete picture and have to admit that I may be biased.
BTW, Fariz is from Baku, it should be usefull to ask him about this affairs.
What you saw about Russian security forces mistreating Caucasians is not an official policy. For our beloved Militia dark-skinned big-nose unshaved people are a great source of money. After every terrorist act they start fishing for Caucasians and leeching money from them.
When I say "Caucasian" I mean a person from Caucasus, dark skin, big nose and special accent, not any person belonging to European race. It's not bigotry, it's just a copy of an official term used by Militia: "a person of Caucasian nationality".
As for me - I really enjoy this people living here in Moscow. They are great salesmen, always polite and friendly.
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Originally posted by BigMan
That would be Sad, nobody has suffer under the Yoke of Islam like the Christans of the Caucuses.
OK, to revive the tread and stop it from dieing hijacked.
The problem is that noone but Russians stopped Georgians from falling under the "yoke of Islam". Georgian king wrote to Russian Emperor that he "begs on his knees" to be included into Russian Empire. Now they call Russians "occupants" and "opressors".
All this "parade of independance" was pure nonsence. It was organised by local "princes" who wanted to rule according to their tribal traditions. Look, immediately after they got "independance" they started wars: civilian (in Georgia and Azerbaijan) and Georgian-Osetin, Georgian-Abkhazian and Armenia-Azerbaijan. Georgia and Armenia also suffered severe economical disasters, because their economics was strongly integrated into Russian-Soviet, and they have no natural resources like oil of Baku. Now - who needs tangerins from Georgia? Who needs their wine?
OTOH, Russia still supplies them gas and oil by some strange tariffs, almost for free. At the same time Georgians host Chechen terrorists and recieve military aid from the US, guess against whom...
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Borda,
Didn't the Armenians rise up against Turkey after Russia promised support following WWI?
Result- Russian's sat by and 1,000,000+ Armenians murdered?
Orthodox Brothers ....Murdered by Islam...
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Originally posted by BigMan
With the Chechen war and all of the atrocities, terroism etc, are other people of the Caucuses getting the fallout..ie christans like Armenians etc?
I saw a report that they are indeed being generaly mistreated by Russian security forces.
That would be Sad, nobody has suffer under the Yoke of Islam like the Christans of the Caucuses.
BigMan, christian Armenia occupy at the moment 25% of muslim Azerbaijan, with around 800,000 Azeries refuges at the own homeland. It was attrocities at both sides. It was many of Armenians killed in Azerbaijan in Baku and Sumgait (sp?) during attrocities. It was whole Azerbaijan villages destroyed with a civilian population in Narogny Karabakh, for example Khogaly. For some strange reason attrocities of muslim Azeries made it to the international news while attrocities of christian Armenians known only to few outside of Azerbaijan.
I am not a muslim, neither I am a christian. I have friends everywhere around the world, including armenian friends. Probably this is due to my respect of people because of their personal qualities, not because of their nationality or religion. But neither I am a blind or stupid. I know what is mass media and saw informational wars too many times in my life.
If you want to be an informational puppet, keep believing what that say on news or write in papers.
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Fariz,
I look at the geography of Narogny Karabakh and it looks to me like it should be part of Armenia. Just an observation.
You guys seeing any fallout from the Chechen war?
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Originally posted by BigMan
Borda,
Didn't the Armenians rise up against Turkey after Russia promised support following WWI?
Result- Russian's sat by and 1,000,000+ Armenians murdered?
Orthodox Brothers ....Murdered by Islam...
Frankly speaking - I am not an expert in Caucasian history. :( IIRC a part of Armenia (smallest part) was "liberated" by Russian Army in a war of 1877-78. During WWI Caucasian front was important, and Russian Army had some offencives there, but it's impossible to blame Russians for inability to free all Armenia from Turks. I mean that Russia did what it could, not only "promised".
Fariz, thank you. It's a view that many people completely miss. Probably because Armenians are traditionaly seen as "victims" and they have great foreing diaspora, much more powerfull then Turkish/Azerbaijanian. I hope you understand that I have nothing against Azerbaijanian people and I wish you guys to solve problems without bloodshed.
BTW, what is your attitude to young Aliyev? I think his Father was a great man, probably the wisest Soviet-school leader of the former USSR.
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http://www.azerbaijan.ru/pages/history/m1410_ru.php
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Armenian, eh?
That would explain the hatred of Islam. Terrible thing that happened.
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I didn't think this thread is about baiting some people for their previous achievements.
BigMan asks interesting questions. He definetly can be biased, and there is nothing wrong about it. Iam biased, Fariz may be biased too.
I have deepest respect to Armenian culture, as well as to Moslim tradition.
I am an atheist raised in a society with rong Orthodox tradition.
Starting to master bait in a thread about national/religious relations is IMHO impolite and pretty stupid.
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Borda,
Hogboy is just angry that he wasn't around in the 19th century to fight for his mother land- the swamps of South Arkansas.
BTW, did Tom get cut? I didn't see him on Monday night football?
Hogboy's cuz is a rookie for the Dallas Cowboys.
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Originally posted by BigMan
Borda,
Hogboy is just angry that he wasn't around in the 19th century to fight for his mother land- the swamps of South Arkansas.
BTW, did Tom get cut? I didn't see him on Monday night football?
Hogboy's cuz is a rookie for the Dallas Cowboys.
the magical "Off topic/Personal attack
Last edited by Skuzzy on 08-31-2004 at 09:30 AM" is coming
i can see the future
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
the magical "Off topic/Personal attack
Last edited by Skuzzy on 08-31-2004 at 09:30 AM" is coming
i can see the future
All I can say is, "its about ****ing time"