Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Mister Fork on August 26, 2004, 09:03:41 AM

Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: Mister Fork on August 26, 2004, 09:03:41 AM
This setup is a time advance from the current to August 1943.

Allies
A-20G
B-26
B-17
Lancaster
Mosquito Mk VI
C-47
P-47D-11
Spitfire IX
Typhoon
M Series
Panzer
Ostie

Axis
Ju-88
Ju-87
Ju-52(C-47)
Bf 109F-4
Bf 109G-2
Bf 109G-6
Bf 110G-2
C 205 (* exchange squad)
Fw 190A-5
Fw 190F-8
Tiger (France only)
Panzer
M Series
Ostie

All Ports
LVT's
PT Boats
- no B-17 or Lancaster due to lack of heavy German bombers.
- C205's replace the 202's.
- No CV's
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: storch on August 26, 2004, 09:08:45 AM
You might could add the lanc Fork if you were so inclined
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: Furball on August 26, 2004, 09:23:18 AM
Why no Hurri IIC? i think adding the b17 would benefit gameplay, it doesnt have the same porkability as the lanc and would add to immersion for the LW pilots.

axis not have goon?

other than that, really nice setup :)
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: storch on August 26, 2004, 10:07:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
Why no Hurri IIC? i think adding the b17 would benefit gameplay, it doesnt have the same porkability as the lanc and would add to immersion for the LW pilots.

axis not have goon?

other than that, really nice setup :)


I think the HurriIIc is way outclassed now and few flew it, But if Fork wanted to add it there wouldn't be any whines.

I like Buffs, they make a nice explosion eg. the more the merrier.

I think the Axis have the goon we would capture England and make you sods drink good beer. :D
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: Mister Fork on August 26, 2004, 10:26:19 AM
Valid points guys. I've added the Lanc and B-17 plus C-47 for Axis.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: Grits on August 26, 2004, 10:32:39 AM
Poor Allies get downgraded to the Spit 9 from the Uber Spit 5. ;)

On a serious note, I'd call the Ju88 a heavy bomber, maybe add the B-17's only as singles? The LW has planes with enough guns to take down B-17's fairly easily. It doesnt really matter to me, as long as I've got the P-47D-11 or the 190A-5 I'm happy.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: Sable on August 26, 2004, 10:49:55 AM
Well given that we have the Ju87 and 109F, why not have the Hurri IIC?
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: B17Skull12 on August 26, 2004, 11:12:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Grits
On a serious note, I'd call the Ju88 a heavy bomber
its a medium bomber
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: Grits on August 26, 2004, 11:14:16 AM
Lancs go down a lot easier than Ju88's do, so even though they were a medium bomber they are heavy enough to offset Allied heavys IMO.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: B17Skull12 on August 26, 2004, 11:24:32 AM
you still got to face the facts on what makes a heavy bomber a heavy bomber.  Range is the factor which the Ju88 lacks in.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: Grits on August 26, 2004, 01:20:58 PM
Buffs only make one way trips, so range isnt an issue. :)
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: Furball on August 26, 2004, 04:02:06 PM
I would guess classification of a heavy bomber is quite dependant on its max takeoff weight (duh;)) (rough guide, taken from sources on web): -

Ju88A-4 = 31,000lb
Lancaster B.III = 68,000 lb
Boeing B17G = 65,000 lb

The fact that the Ju88A-4 can carry 6,000lb or so of bombs puts it on par with the B17G in AH.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: Furball on August 26, 2004, 04:11:54 PM
Also why do the Axis get Bf 109F-4, Bf 109G-2 and Bf 109G-6.  When the RAF only get Spit IX? and not Spit V too?  Spit V were still used in 1943.

Axis get choice from 7 fighters (Bf 109F-4, Bf 109G-2, Bf 109G-6, Bf 110G-2, C 205, Fw 190A-5, Fw 190F-8) allies get choice of 4  (Mosquito Mk VI P-47D-11 Spitfire IX Typhoon)

And before you call me a spitdweeb or whatever, im quite happy to fly as either axis or allied. ;)
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: Soulyss on August 26, 2004, 04:23:50 PM
because I hate spitfires.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: storch on August 26, 2004, 04:30:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
Also why do the Axis get Bf 109F-4, Bf 109G-2 and Bf 109G-6.  When the RAF only get Spit IX? and not Spit V too?  Spit V were still used in 1943.

Axis get choice from 7 fighters (Bf 109F-4, Bf 109G-2, Bf 109G-6, Bf 110G-2, C 205, Fw 190A-5, Fw 190F-8) allies get choice of 4  (Mosquito Mk VI P-47D-11 Spitfire IX Typhoon)

And before you call me a spitdweeb or whatever, im quite happy to fly as either axis or allied. ;)


To quote Mr. Marley in his classic "No woman no cry"  wouldn't be considered flaming would it?
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: GRUNHERZ on August 26, 2004, 04:59:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
Also why do the Axis get Bf 109F-4, Bf 109G-2 and Bf 109G-6.  When the RAF only get Spit IX? and not Spit V too?  Spit V were still used in 1943.

Axis get choice from 7 fighters (Bf 109F-4, Bf 109G-2, Bf 109G-6, Bf 110G-2, C 205, Fw 190A-5, Fw 190F-8) allies get choice of 4  (Mosquito Mk VI P-47D-11 Spitfire IX Typhoon)

And before you call me a spitdweeb or whatever, im quite happy to fly as either axis or allied. ;)


Maybe so that axis side has some chance in mixed fight?  

With Spit V and Hurri 2C alongside Typh and D11 in there the allies could bring by far the both the fastest and best turning planes to any fight.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: Squire on August 26, 2004, 06:57:31 PM
Looks like a fine setup to me, both sides have some very good rides. I dont see either side with a crutch. Fly them to their strengths. The Spit V was available 43 but I see that as a design call, its not really required.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: ergRTC on August 26, 2004, 09:49:09 PM
Looks good to me too, although I would drop the b17 just for variety.  Love the lanc, and would love to see the lufties get a chance to shoot at it.  

By the way.  What is this wussy fuel consumption going on right now?  

CAN I SUGGEST!!!!

that you change the fuel modifier to accurately protray the real bomber range?  So in this setup, if the lanc were hauling a cookie and the rest of its heavy load all the way to its furthest 1943 target (berlin?) how much fuel did it take to land with a reasonable tank left (e.g. 100 gallons)?  

Please find out and make it match.  

Why?  Cause that could give us a little taste of what real historical accuracy would be.  

AND! it will get rid of buffs leaving with 25% fuel and climbing like slug banshees.

AND! make sure your estimates are done at real throttle settings, not full bore all the way to berlin.  I want climb on full throttle, level at 25k and then normal or cruise to berlin, then back on normal or cruise to land in england.  Set your fuel modifier on that, and lets see what happens.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: Arlo on August 27, 2004, 12:12:13 AM
Double check for me. Is this correct?:

http://www.jollyrogers.info/Combat_Theater.html
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: Grits on August 27, 2004, 12:37:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ergRTC
By the way.  What is this wussy fuel consumption going on right now?  


I think this map is 1:1 so a 1.0 burn rate is the real burn rate, but I'm not positive about that. I do agree with you though, I would put burn at 1.5 minimum and probably around 1.7.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: Sable on August 27, 2004, 02:08:01 AM
The map must be less then 1:1 ... a 109 on full fuel can climb to 30k and loiter over London for hours with no drop tank.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: storch on August 27, 2004, 06:06:33 AM
IIRC the narrowest point between England and France is 33 miles the map is slightly off with distances and other realities being sacrificed for game play.  Taking off from a coastal base and flying across the channel would not take that much fuel.  furthermore with a full fuel and a drop tank at 75% the 109 is getting 127 minutes of flight time.  That's close enough for me and it's also long enough for me.  I have never yet flown as far North as London and never will.  The ack engaging and killing a single fighter or two fighters dictates that we will never "experience realism" in this or any other game
Title: as this illustrates..
Post by: Eagler on August 27, 2004, 07:00:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball

Ju88A-4 = 31,000lb
Lancaster B.III = 68,000 lb
Boeing B17G = 65,000 lb


no boober dweeb will fly the lanc if the b17 is available

get rid of the b17 ack star or disable its formation option
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: ergRTC on August 27, 2004, 07:55:00 AM
no 109 had a time in flight of 127 minutes at full throttle.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: ergRTC on August 27, 2004, 07:55:52 AM
I would also like to see the b17 gone, maybe for just the first half of the week.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: Grits on August 27, 2004, 09:07:38 AM
It is only 23 miles from Dover to Calais. In the BoB forums they said the map was 1:1, but thats the only place I have seen that.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: storch on August 27, 2004, 11:32:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ergRTC
no 109 had a time in flight of 127 minutes at full throttle.


75% throttle
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: ergRTC on August 27, 2004, 12:09:13 PM
Ahh!
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: Sable on August 27, 2004, 03:49:58 PM
Btw, any chance of getting our limited icons back for this setup?
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: tzr on August 29, 2004, 01:24:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
Also why do the Axis get Bf 109F-4, Bf 109G-2 and Bf 109G-6.  When the RAF only get Spit IX? and not Spit V too?  Spit V were still used in 1943.


Hmmm,  Allied loses spit V and HurriII,  Axis don't lose 109F4...
well it is Forks set up:rolleyes:
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: B17Skull12 on August 29, 2004, 03:00:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by tzr
Hmmm,  Allied loses spit V and HurriII,  Axis don't lose 109F4...
well it is Forks set up:rolleyes:
whine all you want.  allies get the jug, typh and a bunch of other superior planes to the F4, so you can go cry else where.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: Slash27 on August 29, 2004, 03:23:39 PM
a bunch of other superior planes to the F4,

Name them.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: tzr on August 29, 2004, 04:45:04 PM
yea what slash said
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: B17Skull12 on August 29, 2004, 04:54:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Slash27
a bunch of other superior planes to the F4,

Name them.
Typh.  300+ mph in level flight.
D11  ubber monster.
spitflower mk 9.
You A20 is better than the F4.
not to mention the allies have 2 pieces of flying artillery so don't give that BS the F4 is better than the whole allied plane set.

you dont need your hurri's and spitv's.  you have superior plane mostly.

but wait the Fw190 you might say then go back see the tiffy ohh nm.
Your Jug will smack our 109's.  your spitflowers will smack any 109.:rolleyes:

go cry else please.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: ergRTC on August 29, 2004, 06:11:36 PM
Sounds like somebody doesnt know how to fly lw iron to me...


As to adding the spit 5, whatever, I like a restricted plane set, too many options makes it less fun to me.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: Grits on August 29, 2004, 06:24:09 PM
I wouldnt care if the Spit V was left in, but the D-11 and Tyffie are both clearly superior to the 109F-4, which is why I mostly fly the 109A-5 in these sets.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: storch on August 29, 2004, 06:36:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Grits
I wouldnt care if the Spit V was left in, but the D-11 and Tyffie are both clearly superior to the 109F-4, which is why I mostly fly the 109A-5 in these sets.


Yup or the mighty 110 of death :)
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: tzr on August 29, 2004, 09:29:18 PM
ROFL...... heres the point Numb

 Allied have 2 planes taken out..2 planes added

Axis had none taken out and 3 or 4 added:rolleyes:
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: B17Skull12 on August 29, 2004, 10:15:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by tzr
ROFL...... heres the point Numb

 Allied have 2 planes taken out..2 planes added

Axis had none taken out and 3 or 4 added:rolleyes:
3 or planes that would make us not whine because we only have 1 109 and a 190.

Erg im not going to explode on you yet.  i've been flying LW iron since june 2003.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: Squire on August 29, 2004, 10:36:54 PM
Its a balanced set. Its actually one of the more balanced sets we see in the CT, "ETO 1943", given the fact that the allied and axis a/c are not the same (is that a surprise to some?), and therefore are never 100 percent "equal", and never will be.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: ergRTC on August 30, 2004, 08:24:29 AM
YEah and I have been flying it poorly since 1996, yet...  eagler.  I have huge respect for the f4.  Very very good plane.
Title: Setup for this week: England/France 1943
Post by: Redd on August 30, 2004, 09:51:06 AM
Seems like a pretty balanced plane set to me. Flew both axis and allies today , both sides have some great planes.

The matchup  Spit  9  vs 190 F  is a great one , really fun fights.