Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rpm on August 27, 2004, 11:43:39 AM
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source (http://www.mywisecounty.com/news/082704-1.htm)
Washington, D.C. --- Arizona Senator John McCain has asked President Bush to seek a halt to the charter assassination of Democratic presidential challenger John F. Kerry's military record that earned him a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts during two-tours of duty in Vietnam but the President declined to specifically condemn the ads by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
McCain, a moderate Republican, has been outspoken against the ad attacks on Kerry's Vietnam War record calling them "dishonorable."
"I would like for him [Bush] to specifically condemn that ad," McCain told Washington Post editors and reporters Thursday but he did exact a pledge from President Bush to seek greater election law reform of such groups if re-elected November 2nd and through a federal law suit. But McCain noted that there would be no impact on the current presidential campaign.
The White House said Bush made the commitment to McCain in a telephone call from Air Force One, hoping to head off a public confrontation with the Arizona Republican and Vietnam veteran when he campaigns with the president next week, according to the Reuters news service.
McCain said he would continue to press the President to specifically denounce the negative television ads when the two get together next week at the Republican National Convention in New York City, according to a report in The Washington Post.
McCain got a better response from Senator Kerry when he requested that he discontinue televising a segment of a debate between Bush and McCain in 2000 when the Arizona Senator admonished Bush for attacking his support for veterans similar to what is now happening with Kerry.
McCain told The Washington Post that he was grateful that Kerry agreed to take off the air the spot that shows McCain telling Bush "You should be ashamed."
Washington Post reporters Thursday pressed McCain asking why he was unwilling to use his leverage with the Bush campaign to force a condemnation of the anti-Kerry ad, McCain said, "I'm just not sure that in the grand scheme of things should determine whether I support the president's reelection or not. If I threatened him with some kind of retaliation, that obviously would have some impact on his re-electability."
Why isn't McCain in the White House today? He crosses the political lines with his views and support. He's a moral, honorable, trustworthy politician. How many can you say THAT about? The country needs and deserves a leader like John McCain.
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Originally posted by rpm371
Why isn't McCain in the White House today? He crosses the political lines with his views and support. He's a moral, honorable, trustworthy politician. How many can you say THAT about? The country needs and deserves a leader like John McCain.
maybe the answer lies in your description of him
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Originally posted by rpm371
Why isn't McCain in the White House today? He crosses the political lines with his views and support. He's a moral, honorable, trustworthy politician. How many can you say THAT about? The country needs and deserves a leader like John McCain.
it's that part of your question that is in bold type that is holding him back. at least thats what did Carter in.
truly decent people are hard to corrupt, this makes the other politicians nervous and they turn on them if if they try to go to far.
McCain or maybe Powell are the only Republican I seriously consider a vote for.
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Snoop r americaz lead0r!
(http://www.iriveramerica.com/mtv/Snoop.jpg)
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Is Snoop doing an impression of the "Shocker" in that pic?
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
truly decent people are hard to corrupt, this makes the other politicians nervous and they turn on them if if they try to go to far.
McCain or maybe Powell are the only Republican I seriously consider a vote for.
We owe it to ourselves as a free nation to break this stupid 2 party system. It was never the vision of the founding fathers and it's strangling us today. Perot was on the right track, just the wrong guy for the job.
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Why isn't McCain in the White House today?
Because he is a self-absorbed grandstander who just wants to be popular. Why does he not address his complaints to the Swift Boat veterans themselves, rather than to Bush? His attempts to portray himself as the only honorable politician are sickening. And we'll be living with the fallout of McCain-Feingold for a long time. This guy ranks up there with Powell as one of the great overrated political figures in the US.
ra
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McCain is a fence sitter, and an appeaser. He'd be ineffective as a leader cause he'd try to mollify everyone, and it just can't be done. I think he just says whatever he thinks most people want to hear. I trust Bush because he doesn't try to sugar-coat the truth. Yeah, I do think Bush speaks from the heart, regardless of what his detractors say about him.
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He didnt make it thru the primaries...its not a big conspiracy...he couldnt muster votes. I felt he was more moderate than i was comfortable with...doesnt mean I dont like him, just respectfully disagree. Same goes with my Republican Senators (Snowe & Collins)...they havent taken a hard stand on anything, they compromise on everything.
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Originally posted by rpm371
We owe it to ourselves as a free nation to break this stupid 2 party system. It was never the vision of the founding fathers and it's strangling us today. Perot was on the right track, just the wrong guy for the job.
while I agree with you I just don't see it happening.
for one thing you have politics as an industry, and those with power (and those who they appoint) are the only ones with the power to change it.
you have just about every commercially viable tv and radio station in the country owned by about 6 cooperations and all drawing their news from the same service. this doesn't leave much of a stage for anyone with new ideas.
and our people in general, while claiming to want someone who has integrity, tells the truth and is above corruption, would mostly rather have someone who doesn't make them think to much and lies to them nicely.
IMO political parties shouldn't even be recognized by the gov't, let alone using gov't funds to pay for primary's and the like for them.
let the candidates stand alone on their own merit, do away with the public hype advertising and just print out a voters pamphlet that gives each candidate a chance to say what their vision is, why they would be good for the job, and their stance on various issues, select nominees by a simple petition with a minimum number of signatures.
obviously it would be unconstitutional to ban political parties, but there is no reason I see why our gov't should give them any voice or consideration above any other citizen.
that said, it's little more than a pipe dream. it'll never happen in my lifetime. there is no motivation for anyone in a position to change it to change it.
from the political selling legal clout for campaign funds, the wealth and corporations who buy the politicians to help secure laws that will make them richer, to the media who sells advertising to both and feeds off the scandal created to make a profit, all make their living off of this dysfunctional system and have no interest in seeing it repaired. all talk about how the system needs to change is just more hype, and presented to you so that you'll think they might even care what you think. if it actually did change, they'd have to find a new way to survive.
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Originally posted by rpm371
We owe it to ourselves as a free nation to break this stupid 2 party system. It was never the vision of the founding fathers and it's strangling us today. Perot was on the right track, just the wrong guy for the job.
well said...
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Originally posted by rpm371
We owe it to ourselves as a free nation to break this stupid 2 party system. It was never the vision of the founding fathers and it's strangling us today. Perot was on the right track, just the wrong guy for the job.
On this RPM, we agree 100%!
My vote will not go to either candidate this year. It will be a write-in. I don't believe in voting for the other poor choice as a way to protest vote. If you want to protest vote, then write-in or vote for a 3rd part platform that you can support.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
it's that part of your question that is in bold type that is holding him back. at least thats what did Carter in.
truly decent people are hard to corrupt, this makes the other politicians nervous and they turn on them if if they try to go to far.
McCain or maybe Powell are the only Republican I seriously consider a vote for.
I wonder who McCain supports for pres in 04?
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Originally posted by Rude
I wonder who McCain supports for pres in 04?
I thought he was in support of keeping Bush in office. No?
edit: Oh wait, was that sarcasm?
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mc ca8in is too liberal and socialistic for most people... he is far from a republican... I think he should be one of the few republifcans who switches to democrat.
I believe that the war damaged him... he is damaged goods.
lazs
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Sikboy: Without reforming our election laws, we will always have a 2 party system.
Leviathn: Yes, but multiparty systems have been shown to result in sub-optimal outcomes.
Sikboy: Well, err, there is always that.
We've had this discussion before in here.
-Sik
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here's my take on Durverge's law from the last time this came up.
I just noticed that the definition I posted from the fact-index gives the "what" but not the "how" on Durverge's law. Here's the basics on how it works.
Lets say that today, we start a brand new government on the AHBBS. We're going to elect a board of governerns who will dictate what threads can be started, and who can post blah blah blah. During this first election cycle, people with like minds will begin to get together. The "Cut-N-Paste" party will attract the Conservatives, with the "Death to Amerrikkka" party gaining strenght with our Overseas friends. There's a "Strong Military, low tax" party and the "Smoke Pot and Collect Welfare" will have a few members, while the "Air America" party will keep the Liberals happy.
In the first election, it's a close contest, but the Cut-N-Paste party wins. So, the next time we hold elections the following conversation occurs:
Air America leader: You should join us, we're way better than the cut-n-paste lunatics!
Death To Amerrikkka leader: **** that, you suck... death to amerikkka! Oh wait... you're right, I can't deal with another 4 years of Ripsnort in charge. Ok fine, we'll join you.
In the 2nd election, The "Air Amerrikkka" ticket beats the incumbant Cut-N-Paste administration. Which, leads to the following conversation:
C-N-P leader: We need to join together if we are to stand a chance against the Air Amerrikka ticket!
Strong and Low: No ****, I can feel my taxes getting higher, and the military getting weaker, this is ****ed up.
So, as the elections go by, the parties join one another until you end up with approx 1/2 of the population on one left sided party, and 1/2 on a right sided party. Then most of the time, each party fights it out over the moderates who could go either way.
-Sik
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Originally posted by Furball
Snoop r americaz lead0r!
(http://www.iriveramerica.com/mtv/Snoop.jpg)
ROFL Aight! Snoop couldn`t poor pizz outa a boot with directions on the bottom in BIG, bold letters. :D
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our real leader is the cic whoever that may be. i really like mccain but bush jr has been on the job and hes made some good calls. you cant compare mccain to him until mccain has had the title and had to make the calls. and when are you going to get it that the swifties arent pro republican they are anti scumbag.
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Why isn't McCain in the White House today? He crosses the political lines with his views and support. He's a moral, honorable, trustworthy politician. How many can you say THAT about? The country needs and deserves a leader like John McCain.
If you believe this, I have this little company called Microsoft that I'd like to sell you...
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Slimm50.....fence sitter and appeaser...
Why do you think the left likes him?
Col. Day, I believe that is his name, was the senior pow , a pow longer than mc cain. He has been silent on all this until yesterday.... He said that after mc cain said his piece he had to say his. He said that because of kerry testamony the pows suffered more torture while the N.V. played his testamony over and over. Because of the extra torture a couple of pows died.
Now is this man a lier to, which brave soul will say he is?
The left just doesnt get it, it isnt about medals.
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Leviathn: Yes, but multiparty systems have been shown to result in sub-optimal outcomes.
Heh, compared to what?
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manchurian candidate comes to mind when I think of mc cain.
lazs
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How McCain lost to GWBS for Republican leadership is an anomoly.
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It must be confusing to the canadians on this board. Which.....
Is just the way we like it.
lazs
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Opps I forgot the golden rule about not being allowed to post about USA cause I'm canadian.
hate to break this too ya but i came to this country from northridge ca.
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apparently you have done the right thing... you couldn't understand America when you were here and now you have left so that you can't even vote.
win win for everyone.... except possibly canada but.... who cares?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
apparently you have done the right thing... you couldn't understand America when you were here and now you have left so that you can't even vote.
win win for everyone.... except possibly canada but.... who cares?
lazs
OUCH!!! That's going to leave a mark!
:p :aok :rofl
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Heh, compared to what?
You'll have to ask Levi, but I'm guessing that it is in comparrison to proportional representation systems.
-Sik
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hate to break this too ya but i came to this country from northridge ca.
You went to canada? Willingly?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
You went to canada? Willingly?
Ever been to the Valley?
If I had to go back, I might choose Canada too lol.
-Sik
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In a two-party system in a unidimensional space, the median voter's ideal policy position generally becomes the government's policy position. That is, where 50% + 1 person of the population prefer a certain policy, a two-party government would adopt that policy. The two parties vie for control of the middle of the political spectrum and policy tends to reflect this.
In a multi-party (i.e. more than two-party) system, coalitions between extreme groups can lead to sub-optimal policies, or those less preferable to the population median's preferences. Extremist parties could "trade" extreme policies with one another, all the while drawing the policy farther to the left and right from the population median's preferred position.
Imagine it this way: the wacko extremist pinko party represents 30% of the population on the far left. The independent moderates represent 40% of the population in the middle. The gun-toting facists comprise the last 30% of the population on the far right. It is possible (and it has, in fact, happened) that the two extremist parties join together to form a majority voting bloc and trade votes on issues of particular importance to them. Thus the pinkos, with the support of the far right, move every citizen into a commune, and the facists, with the support of the far left, give every newborn baby a machine gun. These policy outcomes fall far outside the preferences of the population median voter. Thus they are suboptimal from a representative standpoint.
They are also suboptimal because the pinkos would prefer the population median's position over the facists' position on gun control, and the facists would prefer the population median's positions over the pinkos' on matters of communal living. Yet the extremist positions prevail through vote trading and coalition formation. Policy does not reflect the preferences of a majority of voters.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by rpm371
source (http://www.mywisecounty.com/news/082704-1.htm)
Why isn't McCain in the White House today? He crosses the political lines with his views and support. He's a moral, honorable, trustworthy politician. How many can you say THAT about? The country needs and deserves a leader like John McCain.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040831/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_mccain&cid=694&ncid=716
welcome to the bush junta my friend. :)
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Originally posted by lazs2
mc ca8in is too liberal and socialistic for most people... he is far from a republican... I think he should be one of the few republifcans who switches to democrat.
I believe that the war damaged him... he is damaged goods.
lazs
McCain was a foot soldier for Regan in the house, and later in the Senate. He was and still is a phsical conservative, and a hawk. He is a little more moderate on social issues (not socialist), and has become stubborn in the post-Regan era. His track record of going aginst the party line was the reason reps decided it wasnt his turn yet.
His war on terror support, and cross party appeal may give in a chance in '08 though.
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(http://www.databasedata.org/debt_consolidation_loan.jpg)
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
In a two-party system in a unidimensional space, the median voter's ideal policy position generally becomes the government's policy position. That is, where 50% + 1 person of the population prefer a certain policy, a two-party government would adopt that policy. The two parties vie for control of the middle of the political spectrum and policy tends to reflect this.
In a multi-party (i.e. more than two-party) system, coalitions between extreme groups can lead to sub-optimal policies, or those less preferable to the population median's preferences. Extremist parties could "trade" extreme policies with one another, all the while drawing the policy farther to the left and right from the population median's preferred position.
Imagine it this way: the wacko extremist pinko party represents 30% of the population on the far left. The independent moderates represent 40% of the population in the middle. The gun-toting facists comprise the last 30% of the population on the far right. It is possible (and it has, in fact, happened) that the two extremist parties join together to form a majority voting bloc and trade votes on issues of particular importance to them. Thus the pinkos, with the support of the far right, move every citizen into a commune, and the facists, with the support of the far left, give every newborn baby a machine gun. These policy outcomes fall far outside the preferences of the population median voter. Thus they are suboptimal from a representative standpoint.
They are also suboptimal because the pinkos would prefer the population median's position over the facists' position on gun control, and the facists would prefer the population median's positions over the pinkos' on matters of communal living. Yet the extremist positions prevail through vote trading and coalition formation. Policy does not reflect the preferences of a majority of voters.
-- Todd/Leviathn
And thus Europe's political outcomes suck!
Thank you for the lecture professor Levi!
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Thank you for the lecture professor Levi!
I thank you too. But probably for very different reasons than Grunherz's.
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Originally posted by Nash
I thank you too. But probably for very different reasons than Grunherz's.
Say does Canada have a multiparty system?
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Say, are you serious?
I ask that because.... Most of the developed world has a somewhat tenable grasp on the fundamental political systems of many countries besides their own.
And you don't have any idea about your own neighbor's?
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Originally posted by Nash
Say, are you serious?
I ask that because.... Most of the developed world has a somewhat tenable grasp on the fundamental political systems of many countries besides their own.
And you don't have any idea about your own neighbor's?
Nash finally realizes that Canada really doesnt matter much to most americans. He cries.
Here you go Nash!
(http://www.puffs.com/products/images/product_landing.jpg)
BTW Nash I thought you guys did, but wanted to confirm it by asking you. Too bad your your insecurities and prejudises dont let you just answer the questiom..
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ohhh zinger. uh-huh..
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So whats your answer nash?
Does Canada produce suboptimal extremist political outcomes beacuse of a multiparty system or due to some other uniquiely canadian deficiency?
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>>Why isn't McCain in the White House today? <<
Because he didn't have the ENORMOUS warchest that Bush had in 2000. But McCain will be President one day - I'd bet on it.
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Originally posted by Grunherz
Does Canada produce suboptimal extremist political outcomes beacuse of a multiparty system or due to some other uniquiely canadian deficiency?
Bite me.
Originally posted by opus
>>Why isn't McCain in the White House today? <<
Because he's the father of an illegitimate black child and is the deranged veteran of a war that scarred his entire mind.
I thought everyone knew that.
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Keep in mind that a multi-party system may lead to suboptimal outcomes in the special case I described above. This does not mean that all policy in multi-party systems is unrepresentative. For the most part, multi-party systems function perfectly well when extreme parties do not form coalitions together (which is rare). Also, the example above greatly simplifies multi-dimensional reality.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Nash
Bite me.
:rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Keep in mind that a multi-party system may lead to suboptimal outcomes in the special case I described above. This does not mean that all policy in multi-party systems is unrepresentative. For the most part, multi-party systems function perfectly well when extreme parties do not form coalitions together (which is rare). Also, the example above greatly simplifies multi-dimensional reality.
-- Todd/Leviathn
I know levi, yet the above example was so perfect.. :)
Once agin, thank you sir!
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Yeah it sure does! but i don't get mad, just even!
So at around 1:00 am i took my GF to Parliment Hill, where i bang her on the Mackenzie monument whilst smoke some Ice Smash. After which i took a big WMD crap in one of the govn't buildings there.
All i got was a quick once over from a passing RCMP patrol car as i carried my tripod across the lawn infront of the Parliment buildings.
(http://members.rogers.com/ereid/Par.jpg)
Bahahahaha, the jokes on them i tell you!
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
the above example was so perfect.. :)
What example, and how?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Nash finally realizes that Canada really doesnt matter much to most americans.
Thank goodness. ;)
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Oh you're still here.
Well, ok. I mean't Levi's example in his first post. I found it intersting, perfectly intersting. :)
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Thank goodness. ;)
:D
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Nash finally realizes that Canada really doesnt matter much to most americans.
That isn't saying anything about Canada. It does say something about America though.
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to bad cant reelect clinton...he was a good prez.
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Originally posted by Nash
That isn't saying anything about Canada. It does say something about America though.
Get your avatar back Nash, you're hurting without it....
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Jeeze that's two zingers by Grun in a single thread. What is this world coming to?
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Take a break nash...