Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Urchin on August 27, 2004, 01:37:42 PM
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I honestly fail to see the reasoning behind it. Any game that is competitive in nature is going to involve exchanges of words that aren't friendly. If you don't want us to tell some ***** in another country that he is flying like a *****, disable all channels from 200 up.
It makes very little sense to me to say "Well, channel 1 was a cesspool that was by default accessible to everyone, so I'm going to close it" and then send the anonymous girl scout moderators over to channel 200 to mute people for talking. Channel 200 isn't available to everyone by default, you have to TUNE to it. So if the intent was to squelch anything other than "Oh man, that was some FANTASTIC running! And the way you reversed when your 5 buddies jumped in! Tactical brilliance!" then you'd be better off removing any way for players of different countries to talk to each other.
As it is, having anonymous girlscouts moderating a player chosen channel for inter-country communication seems somewhat heavy-handed. There is already a "profanity filter" that catches everything on any channel other than the squad channel. If whatever is going over ch 200 gets past that, then some testosterone deprived twerp shouldn't be squelching people just because "he" doesn't like what they have to say.
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You can tune to it by hitting alt-f4.
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Urchin If you feel moderator was wrong. screen shoot text and his responce. Then send to DALE or skuzzy.
Only seen one time where I thought moderator was wrong, For the most part they have tough jobs.
Everytime a moderator acts it is put into a log. So whole story is available to Hitech.
Putting soap box away now....................:)
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Oh, I've only got a problem with one moderator. Or perhaps more accurately, only one moderator has a problem with me. Doesn't matter if I think s/he is wrong, I just think it is stupid to have an automated filter to catch language, then have a girlscout watching whatever gets through the filter muting someone "just because". I don't think Ch 200 should be moderated at all, besides the filter, else it'd be best just to remove any inter-country communication completely.
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I don't think Ch 200 should be moderated at all, besides the filter, else it'd be best just to remove any inter-country communication completely.
I would tend to agree with this ... but the problem is that when someone gets their nips tweaked, their diarrheal verbal diatribe continues on for quite some time, you need someone to say ...
enuff is enuff ... ya said your peace ... now shutup or be shutup.
I have tried, and not being a moderator, it did no good.
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personally the insults and taunts and smack talking were part of the fun and what gave the game energy. especially while climbing out to altitude to get to the fight.
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I agree 50/50.
The whole point of tuning to Ch200 is that it's voluntary. In this context I agree with you, Urchin; it should be "open house".
OTH; I think compulsory channels should be quite tightly monitored; especialy as HTC don't seem too keen on either a perma squelch list nor the ability to squelch range ch.
I miss AW's AWARS. they weren't just monitors; they were helpers; and helped in no small way to shape the AW community; a community that kept very old and buggy software going well past it's sale-by date.
Having some one around with a big stick and a bigger smile isn't always bad for a community.
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I have no problems with ch200. If I dont want to hear it I detune. RANGE is another story.
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I believe moderators are not supposed to moderate normal talking. Just those that go alittle over fence and need a reminder that being mindful of children that watch or play are in game.
before you say then those with children should not tune 200. They have just as much rights as you........
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Originally posted by rod367th
I believe moderators are not supposed to moderate normal talking. Just those that go alittle over fence and need a reminder that being mindful of children that watch or play are in game.
hmm....do we have a definition for what the AH community declares normal talking? :D
btw...I can not remember if FA or WB had moderators, or if wwiionline or TK/TR have them but I think it is a good decision to have moderators/helpers/or as some call them game police in the arenas, as long as they stick to a code of ethics and don't just pick on the people they don't like.
In AW, if a GA or an AWAR went over board or abused his or her powers in anyway they were reprimanded and sometimes even put on probation...if it happened more than a few times they were ejected from the volunteer staff....if my memory serves me correctly......
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There's no need for cursing on any channel. In fact thats only good reason I can see for muting someone. Muting someone who throws a hissy fit without cursing is ridiculous. They're fun to read.
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First it is not just about profanity.
1. There are many things not acceptible in an open channel discussion. Everything from just being obnoxsious by spaming the channel. To heated arguments between 2 people , that only they realy want to hear.
None ot that stuff can be managed with out some sort of monitor.
2. Channel 200 is still not a free for all, it is just a common meeting place. Best way I can describe it is that it should be like a cheers bar, not a wild west, shootem up, drag out fight and cussing style bar. And the difference from channel 1 is that with channel 200 you choose to walk into cheers, even if clif claven is stitting there. Now some might think the also want the low class bar in AH, but I don't want any of my costomers to be treated by the undertaker (i.e. leave because of an argument), even thow some might think it is cool to do the killing.
When ever you have a large group of people there will be people who make trouble. Since that is just a given, there has to be some way deal with them. Monitors is our way of dealing with them.
HiTech
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Originally posted by SlapShot
I would tend to agree with this ... but the problem is that when someone gets their nips tweaked, their diarrheal verbal diatribe continues on for quite some time, you need someone to say ...
lol...he said "nips tweaked".
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Originally posted by hitech
Channel 200 is still not a free for all, it is just a common meeting place. Best way I can describe it is that it should be like a cheers bar, not a wild west, shootem up, drag out fight and cussing style bar
HiTech
haha i like that :D sig material methinks!
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Channel 200 is still not a free for all, it is just a common meeting place. Best way I can describe it is that it should be like a cheers bar, not a wild west, shootem up, drag out fight and cussing style bar.
Very well put.
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Bring back channel 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The thing I like about channel 200 is that it doesn't show up in films if you're not tuned to it, whereas the channel 1 garbage always appeared in the films whether it was squelched or not.
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There's no need for cursing on any channel. In fact thats only good reason I can see for muting someone. Muting someone who throws a hissy fit without cursing is ridiculous. They're fun to read.
I agree to most of that. But when 2 or 3 guys are whining over and over and over again about the same ole dribble crap. Then I would agree to mute them. (They've stated thier opinions about 100 times and that crap gets old fast.) I have no problem with some smack talk on CH 200. Most is in good fun and like you said is fun to watch. But some of these guys carry it to far and/or they carry on whining way to long, which gets anoying.
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Fair enough.
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difference is that in CHEERS they where not shooting each other, or even hunting themselves, so to compare is not valid.
I certainly do not want to Salute my adversary, I wanna kill em with a passion.
all the rest is for limp wristed dweebs.
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Slo: Your talking about the game side, not the social side, unless you meen your would realy like to kill the people you "PLAY" with?
HiTech
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HiTech I for one thank you for getting rid of channel 1 and putting in channel 200 as an alternative. I have a 9 year old daughter (almost 10 now) that loves to watch me play Aces High. She reads the text buffer faster than I do. Many, many times the content on channel 1 was NOT appropriate for children. When people mask their cursing (ie misspelling it to get it past the filter) she still knew what they meant. She may be only 9 but she is far from ignorant.
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Elfie, im sort of curious about 2 things. Do you tune to 200 stll? And how do you stop her from reading country text, or hearing vox?
A_Clown
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I dont tune to 200 ever and I turn the sound completely down if she is watching and their is a problem on vox that is unresolvable. Usually if someone is swearing on vox I kindly ask them to stop and let them know that a 9 year old girl is listening.
Just mentioning a 9 yr old girl usually gets an apology and the swearing stops. When I get no results the sound goes off :)
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>>Best way I can describe it is that it should be like a cheers bar, not a wild west, shootem up, drag out fight and cussing style bar.<<
Fair enough, but then the Cheers gang had ace writers. I mean Norm could just look at Cliff in a certain way and it would be entertaining. The only point I'm making, if its not outright obnoxious or trying belittle/bully someone, I see no problem with "spirited" interaction - it does pass the time while alting. "Waaaaa" or "sheeep" or "you fly like a granny" (no offense any granny pilots) is certainly no reason to be muting people.
But I do see the point - cursing or not, getting in someones face shouldn't be allowed.
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All channel 1 needed was more moderators and a 'speak softly, carry a big stick' attitude from HTC. Heck, they've done it on the boards already...
Now, they have eliminated a good community building tool, even a bad game can last MUCH longer when there is a good community onboard (and I'm not saying AH is bad). Worse yet, it hasn't helped, range is just as bad as channel 1 ever was. For example, couple of weeks ago a pair of subcribers were chatting about having 'relations' with their wives with rather colorful and descriptive adjectives.
On the more whimsical side, can you imagine the AH Cons in a couple of years?
"Who are you? Oh, I don't know you, I flew for the Rooks."
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I want to know why rod367 has two men embracing for an avatar.
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Originally posted by Drunky
I want to know why rod367 has two men embracing for an avatar.
Me to makes me sick just looking at it.:(
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I'd haveto agree. The whole point in getting rid of channel one was to get the ..poo poo off of channel 1 which players had no choice but to look at.
So the players decided to use channel 200 to converce between countries.
I didnt care one way or the other about channle 1 or what was said on it. But I could understand those who had complaints and the logic behind removing it altogether.
But
Didnt have to be a fortune telller to figure out that the previous trash that was going on on channel 1 would move to channel 200 which has to be manually switched to.
In short you have a choice to look at the nonsence or not.
Human moderators on channel 1 is silly and unneeded inko.
Particularly if youhave the auto mod.
Human Mod should worry more about whats being said on country channels and local vox then whats going on on channels the players have to manually choose to see it or not.
But thats just my view
Originally posted by Seeker
I agree 50/50.
The whole point of tuning to Ch200 is that it's voluntary. In this context I agree with you, Urchin; it should be "open house".
OTH; I think compulsory channels should be quite tightly monitored; especialy as HTC don't seem too keen on either a perma squelch list nor the ability to squelch range ch.
I miss AW's AWARS. they weren't just monitors; they were helpers; and helped in no small way to shape the AW community; a community that kept very old and buggy software going well past it's sale-by date.
Having some one around with a big stick and a bigger smile isn't always bad for a community.
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Originally posted by hitech
Slo: Your talking about the game side, not the social side, unless you meen your would realy like to kill the people you "PLAY" with?
HiTech
heh "kill" may be a strong term but, there have been moments.
llmao
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The only problem I have with human moderators is they someties tend to be.. Uneven for lack of a better term when dealing with offenders.
No disrespect intended but.
I've seen/heard of moderators dealing with one player for saying one thing then letting other people get away with doing what ever they want within momets of one another.
I know its happened cause I've personaly witnessed it.
Moderators are fine. so long as they ttreat everyone the same. And that doesnt always happen
Auto Moderators are better, Mainly because they ARENT human. They have no favorites
Unless they are programed that way and deal with everyone with an even hand.
Perhaps increasing their vocabulary to recognise more words and attempts to circumvent the moderation might be a better move.
And leave any problem children for the players to report or file complaints about
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Originally posted by hitech
First it is not just about profanity.
1. There are many things not acceptible in an open channel discussion. Everything from just being obnoxsious by spaming the channel. To heated arguments between 2 people , that only they realy want to hear.
None ot that stuff can be managed with out some sort of monitor.
2. Channel 200 is still not a free for all, it is just a common meeting place. Best way I can describe it is that it should be like a cheers bar, not a wild west, shootem up, drag out fight and cussing style bar. And the difference from channel 1 is that with channel 200 you choose to walk into cheers, even if clif claven is stitting there. Now some might think the also want the low class bar in AH, but I don't want any of my costomers to be treated by the undertaker (i.e. leave because of an argument), even thow some might think it is cool to do the killing.
When ever you have a large group of people there will be people who make trouble. Since that is just a given, there has to be some way deal with them. Monitors is our way of dealing with them.
HiTech
:aok TY HT
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Just a note on something
I remember when this whole argument started over what was being said on Chan 1
a common term was that they didnt like what they were "hearing" on channel 1 and didnt want their kids to "hear " it either.
This comment always made me chuckle
Again no disrespect but your couldnt "hear" whats on channel 1 anymore then you can "hear" whats on channel 200.
You read it
Now if you wanna talk about "hearing" then You have to think about some of the stuff that you "hear" on range channel.
Myself personally as I've said all along.
Doesnt bother me one way or the other what comes out of my speakers.
But I do understand how others might not like it or might not share the same views a me where children are concerned
So I try to be considerate.
The problem isnt so much what is said but rather the players dont jump on the offenders more often.
By and large and without exeption I've seen what someone spews all sorts of profanity several players jump on the offender and tell him to knock it off.
And without exeption its worked. quite often but not always with an apology from the offender.
Unfortunately the players dont speak up often enough as I've seen counless other times when people dont say anything.
Im not talking about the occasional slip of the tongue. Hey it happens and I think most here can understand that and for the most part let it slide.
Im talking about the people, cussing in every other transmission and nobody uttering a word to them about it.
I think as players and as a community have a responcability to not only try to keep our own mouths in check but also to occasionally remind others to also.
I dont mean anyone has to berate anyone. nor should they as this would probably create more problems then it solves.
Something as simple as a reminder or a statement that as one poster put it "Hey there is a 9 year old girl around. watch the language." or "Hey dude my 65 year old mother is here watching me play. keep it down please"
Typically would more then suffice.
C'mon folks. We cant expect HTC to babysit us on everything.
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Originally posted by Urchin
I honestly fail to see the reasoning behind it. Any game that is competitive in nature is going to involve exchanges of words that aren't friendly. If you don't want us to tell some ***** in another country that he is flying like a *****, disable all channels from 200 up.
It makes very little sense to me to say "Well, channel 1 was a cesspool that was by default accessible to everyone, so I'm going to close it" and then send the anonymous girl scout moderators over to channel 200 to mute people for talking. Channel 200 isn't available to everyone by default, you have to TUNE to it. So if the intent was to squelch anything other than "Oh man, that was some FANTASTIC running! And the way you reversed when your 5 buddies jumped in! Tactical brilliance!" then you'd be better off removing any way for players of different countries to talk to each other.
As it is, having anonymous girlscouts moderating a player chosen channel for inter-country communication seems somewhat heavy-handed. There is already a "profanity filter" that catches everything on any channel other than the squad channel. If whatever is going over ch 200 gets past that, then some testosterone deprived twerp shouldn't be squelching people just because "he" doesn't like what they have to say.
I was 'moderated' and muted for telling a friend on another country wtfg for his 7 kills in a P40. To me that is just plane old anal retentive.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Citabria
personally the insults and taunts and smack talking were part of the fun and what gave the game energy. especially while climbing out to altitude to get to the fight.
That's what I use it for. Adds character to the fight and puts some 'personality' behind the game.
Zazen
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Originally posted by hitech
Slo: Your talking about the game side, not the social side, unless you meen your would realy like to kill the people you "PLAY" with?
HiTech
HT, I know SLO, that's probably EXACTLY what he means... :eek:
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Another thing for HT and the community to consider is that inter-country banter, be it friendly or hostile, actually serves to fascilitate country balance. Nameless, faceless adversaries have a very low pull factor. So long as the game itself fosters the development of 'relationships' between players the community will grow. The manifested nature of the individual relationships is not actually very important in this process.
There is nothing that would destroy the sense of community more than breaking that vital communication link. The 2nd most destructive thing would be to moderate that link into a benign, howdy-doody club with "big-brother is watching" censorship tactics. While I understand unhindered freedom of expression is not a right within AH, as it is essentially a 'private club'. Freedom of expression is important in the development of a sense of community and the breaking down of barriers between individuals and groups on different countries.
Zazen
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No no this cant be.
It just cant! It cant be true I tell ya it cant!
PLEASE tell me it isnt!
I dont even wanna say what it is cause if its true I may have to go get a gun and blow my brains out. Or at the very least check myself in for some serious psychotherapy
NOOOOOOOOOO!
ha!
Haha
HAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
(Now doing best Renfeild laugh)
"Nahinhinnhinnhinnn"
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>>I was 'moderated' and muted for telling a friend on another country wtfg for his 7 kills in a P40. To me that is just plane old anal retentive.
<<
Well, hopefully they're still working out the bugs of the moderation system. WTFG requires participation to be obscene.
Way to freakin go, way to friggin go, way to FABULOUSTHY go - er ya get the picture. Unless we start bannig letters.
Seriously, you'd be surprised at what I've heard some people think FUBAR means, and none of it has to do with the address register.
Short reply:
yea thats pretty stupid. Moderators decrypting acronyms that *could* mean something obscene.
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Maybe ch200 just needs a big 'ol group hug!
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QUOTE:" As it is, having anonymous girlscouts moderating a player chosen channel for inter-country communication seems somewhat heavy-handed. There is already a "profanity filter" that catches everything on any channel other than the squad channel. If whatever is going over ch 200 gets past that, then some testosterone deprived twerp shouldn't be squelching people just because "he" doesn't like what they have to say"
WOW< this post got past the sarcasm and antagonistic monitors, just like daily the foulest of language and inuendos get typed on channel 200 without any filtering. I get the impression that it takes HumanIntel to filter offensive language and it doesnt seem there are monitors logged on early hours of days to mid afternoon PST. It seems the same guys continually use cloaked profanity with impunity.
As far as squelching someone, I think that is an honorable way to shut someone up if you dont broadcast you are squealching them.(i sometime forget to put a . before squelch command so it gets broadcast by mistake) It is also one of the best features that improves game quality, because some people dont care who or how they offend others.
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Originally posted by rod367th
Urchin If you feel moderator was wrong. screen shoot text and his responce. Then send to DALE or skuzzy.
Only seen one time where I thought moderator was wrong, For the most part they have tough jobs.
Everytime a moderator acts it is put into a log. So whole story is available to Hitech.
Putting soap box away now....................:)
i got muted by a mod for saying pu53y and with the muted window up and showing muted for another 9.2 minutes or so. people on ch1 were ablaze with that word as soon as i got muted and the moderator was ignoring them. i have screenshots of this situation with the mute counter in full view and players chanting that word after i got muted for it.
yep i deserved it:aok but i think the moderators can be kinda selective as to who gets muted.:rolleyes:
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I don't think I've ever been muted by a moderator (person, not the filter)
I did however, get a message from a certain someone (Mr.Unamned moderator) to change my callsign one time. :)
That was over a year ago though.
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All AH needs is a .( they dont know when to shut up) moderator). because most just dont know how to do that, STFU that is, the word (STOP) no workie! and Cussing ha! I hear more cuss words from jr high kids when i pick up my 13 yr old from school then i do when im in a truckers bar! or a sunday night watching the simpsons.
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Taunts and insults are a perfectly natural and acceptable form of game play, but i had seen things on channel one that were just outrageous, even gross at times. I'm no saint mind you, but i limit my foul language to squad channel. It simply boils down to respect, respect for other players and for the community. There are kids that play this game, preachers, and people that don't really want to hear about someone lack of seminal vessicles, or what their mother does. Channel 1, or 200 for that matter, is a common ground for all players, and you should keep that in mind and be respectful. You never know when you somebody is letting their kids play, and I would hope you wouldn't talk like that to them in person. The anonymnity of the internet is a poor excuse for filth.
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What I miss the most about channel 1 was when 999000 would tell the rook/bish we were on the way to attack whatever base. when the Dambuster got to out target we always knew a good fight waited for all.
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never mind