Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Gman on August 27, 2004, 02:00:44 PM
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http://www.stealart.com/portrait_of_mercenary.wmv
Our company is running a Close Protection Specialist course right now, and a british reporter (as well as the CBC and local/national news agencies) have been covering it. The brit is doing a 2 hour documentary on private military companies and mercanaries for the BBC as well as the Discovery Channel, which should air later this year.
I normally hate the press, but this brit is a very switched on and well spoken individual, and after running him through some basic pistol courses, he decided to go all in on the training, and has interviewed myself and some of the other instructors at length for the documentary.
I saw the rough cut of what he's using of me, aw shucks, I'm still ugly, but whoopee can I still rock the show with small arms. I should get a good ten minutes of face time I hope...mom will be so proud...sniff.
Gman
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record it when it airs and post it here.
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Don't be surprised when they depict you as a mentally instable gun nut.
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How does one become a mercenary? Obviously, ex-military, most likely ex-special forces... but do private companies post in the classfied ads looking for mercs?
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If you have the appropriate background, and take the right courses at the right time, typically the companies will find you, but Blackwater (very public loses in the media a while back remember), Triple Canopy, and some of the other biggies all have an open application on their websites, my partner at work got hooked up with the above companies and pulls in 200$ us a day waiting for deployment here in Canada, and 1000$ us per day working.
He is a non-Tier1 x soldier (Canadian Airborne), and of the 55 guys on his selection course, 20 were SEALS, and all failed, including the x-training officer for Seal Team 6. Most guys fail out of selections during the close protection and particularly the pistol drills phase. My pal is exception to the rule, the top 10 companies generally ONLY take x SF/Tier 1 people.
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OHH gee...make sure their faces are covered. I always thought that was silly. Who are they afraid of? If they are so good it shouldn't matter who see's their face right? They could beat anyone.
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you should offer to introduce him to your friend lazs 'the gun nut'
maybe lazs will get his own documentary. :D
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Originally posted by Gman
If you have the appropriate background, and take the right courses at the right time, typically the companies will find you, but Blackwater (very public loses in the media a while back remember), Triple Canopy, and some of the other biggies all have an open application on their websites, my partner at work got hooked up with the above companies and pulls in 200$ us a day waiting for deployment here in Canada, and 1000$ us per day working.
He is a non-Tier1 x soldier (Canadian Airborne), and of the 55 guys on his selection course, 20 were SEALS, and all failed, including the x-training officer for Seal Team 6. Most guys fail out of selections during the close protection and particularly the pistol drills phase. My pal is exception to the rule, the top 10 companies generally ONLY take x SF/Tier 1 people.
was he screening for psd at blackwater? if so how long ago?
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Originally posted by Octavius
How does one become a mercenary? Obviously, ex-military, most likely ex-special forces... but do private companies post in the classfied ads looking for mercs?
mercenary is wrong term. these guys are not mercenary. as for this line of work if you did the job for a military then you know about opportunities like this.
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Originally posted by Gman
http://www.stealart.com/portrait_of_mercenary.wmv
Our company is running a Close Protection Specialist course right now, and a british reporter (as well as the CBC and local/national news agencies) have been covering it. The brit is doing a 2 hour documentary on private military companies and mercanaries for the BBC as well as the Discovery Channel, which should air later this year.
I normally hate the press, but this brit is a very switched on and well spoken individual, and after running him through some basic pistol courses, he decided to go all in on the training, and has interviewed myself and some of the other instructors at length for the documentary.
I saw the rough cut of what he's using of me, aw shucks, I'm still ugly, but whoopee can I still rock the show with small arms. I should get a good ten minutes of face time I hope...mom will be so proud...sniff.
Gman
dont trust the press guys a bit. not one single bit. they will turn 180 and screw you cold. zero honor.
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Triple Canopy annon, and he was one of 22 out of 56 that passed, and he's currently on contract with them.
Roger that on the press thing, I've been thinking a lot about that today in fact....oh well, too late now I suppose.
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Originally posted by GScholz
They are mercs, but that is not necessarily a negative description. Depends on what jobs they take.
they are not mercenary. the companies that these guys work for only contract out for us govt or close allies of us govt. there are no "free of govt oversight" jobs. think of it like this. state dept can take three years and train a whole bunch of psd guys and add them to federal payroll and this becomes permanent budget increase. or they can hire special operations personnel with comat experience as "temporary" for a couple of years. no govt retirement or employment minimum to burden taxpayer. but these guys are still under the control and oversight of us govt. company can screen them for job but if state dept shooter doesnt write off on them they are not getting job. mercenary fights for anyone if he likes job and pay. these guys are working for the us govt.
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Originally posted by Gman
Triple Canopy annon, and he was one of 22 out of 56 that passed, and he's currently on contract with them.
Roger that on the press thing, I've been thinking a lot about that today in fact....oh well, too late now I suppose.
i was working as cadre at bw for a couple of the psd workups. i dont know about training o for six or dev not passing workup? i know most of the training o from there for past ten years personally the teamguys usually go bw because its teamguyland. also lest any american start getting worried if some SEAL or army Marine air force operator not pass a psd workup theres a couple of things to remember. first is that if theyve been out of the business for several years and show up for some high speed screening with no time to get the rust of tactical shooting they are going to be out of practice. also until several years ago psd training was not part of skillset for most of special operations community. only in past few years have mainstream team or group been getting this training as part of base skillset. gman tell your buddy good luck and stay sharp those psd gigs are going to get really hairy during the next couple of years.
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Originally posted by Coolridr
OHH gee...make sure their faces are covered. I always thought that was silly. Who are they afraid of? If they are so good it shouldn't matter who see's their face right? They could beat anyone.
no really necessary coolridr. these guys are going to be psd for state dept and iraqi govt officials. when they not working you dont want some insurgent dirtbag id'ing them when they hit an internet cafe on their time off. also if they doing route recon or advance screen on foot "undercover" trying to look like some western commo tech you dont want the enemy knowing their face. these guys are wanted men by the enemy in a big way.
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Originally posted by Gman
Triple Canopy annon, and he was one of 22 out of 56 that passed, and he's currently on contract with them.
Roger that on the press thing, I've been thinking a lot about that today in fact....oh well, too late now I suppose.
there were reporters crawling all over the place after our guys from bw got killed and strung up. a couple of guys tried to explain "how it is" to them but when they kept coming back to "commandos chasing big bucks" and they kept ignoring or understanding what a warrior is everyone pretty much stopped trying to talk to them. "mercenary" every third word. no hope for the clueless i guess.
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What was the name of the Brit journalist Gman? I might have seen some of his work. As a rule I think the BBC are pretty fair in this type of documentary. Too balanced sometimes though I think. Discovery channel too are pretty good. I doubt if you'll be potrayed as some kind of gun nut.
There was a documentary by Sky News on the other night, repeated a couple of times. I didn't see it all but it seemed quite fair. It followed a Brit security company around in Iraq.. One thing that came out was a criticism of the fact that many security firms drive around in big white SUV's that practically scream 'Shoot me I'm a foreigner.' They used non descript BMWs amd Mercs. One of the people they followed around later quit the job. When they interviewed him, he said he was getting disillusioned. Particularly as the standard of some of the newer recruits, some with a Rambo or James Bond mentality and some with little or no real military experience.
I have to say I have thought about becoming involved. Mainly for the money. I need money now!!!!!!! But I suspect I'm too old too unfit and too long out of the military. On the other hand if standards have dropped that low????????
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Originally posted by anonymous
mercenary is wrong term. these guys are not mercenary.
It's a good term. The men and women working for Dyncorp don't swear an oath of fealty to the United States.
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Originally posted by anonymous
no really necessary coolridr. these guys are going to be psd for state dept and iraqi govt officials. when they not working you dont want some insurgent dirtbag id'ing them when they hit an internet cafe on their time off. also if they doing route recon or advance screen on foot "undercover" trying to look like some western commo tech you dont want the enemy knowing their face. these guys are wanted men by the enemy in a big way.
Who would want to live their life like that? Must be something wrong with them.
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Originally posted by cpxxx
What was the name of the Brit journalist Gman? I might have seen some of his work. As a rule I think the BBC are pretty fair in this type of documentary. Too balanced sometimes though I think. Discovery channel too are pretty good. I doubt if you'll be potrayed as some kind of gun nut.
There was a documentary by Sky News on the other night, repeated a couple of times. I didn't see it all but it seemed quite fair. It followed a Brit security company around in Iraq.. One thing that came out was a criticism of the fact that many security firms drive around in big white SUV's that practically scream 'Shoot me I'm a foreigner.' They used non descript BMWs amd Mercs. One of the people they followed around later quit the job. When they interviewed him, he said he was getting disillusioned. Particularly as the standard of some of the newer recruits, some with a Rambo or James Bond mentality and some with little or no real military experience.
I have to say I have thought about becoming involved. Mainly for the money. I need money now!!!!!!! But I suspect I'm too old too unfit and too long out of the military. On the other hand if standards have dropped that low????????
whats your email address? i can give you a pretty good brief on how its working right now.
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Originally posted by Sandman
It's a good term. The men and women working for Dyncorp don't swear an oath of fealty to the United States.
not going to get into this again. i live in this world. you do not. im telling you you are dead wrong. youre free to not believe me. so be it. if you were working for dyncorp youd be working for the us govt often with a security clearance sponsored by some agency or dept of the us govt. you may not swear an oath but if you betray the trust the punishment will be the same as if you did.
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Whatever. The fact that the U.S. has legalized it doesn't change what it is.
No. This is not a morality judgement. It's dangerous work and the pay should be equitable to the risk.
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Originally posted by Coolridr
Who would want to live their life like that? Must be something wrong with them.
if youre a warrior keeping the bad guys from winning is very rewarding. there may be something wrong with them but it has nothing to do with believing there is a need to zap people who think that blowing up diplomats is a valid form of diplomacy.
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Originally posted by anonymous
whats your email address? i can give you a pretty good brief on how its working right now.
Definitely interested. You could email me through my profile. thx
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Originally posted by Sandman
Whatever.
how about you define what a mercenary is and then explain to me specifically how it applies to some guy working for one of these companies in iraq colombia afghanistan and so on. you tell me specifically what the job entails who goes to these companies to find them shooters and under whose authority these shooters do their job and at whos direction. i could do it for you right now but since youre so knolwedgable on the subject you explain to me how i and guys that i worked with who risked their lives daily for the us are now "mercenaries" because we didnt "swear an oath of fealty to the us" after we retired from the military even though were working at the direction of the us govt with coalition military. last time i checked al qaeda guys dont hold their fire or give us "mercenaries" the option to buy their neutrality even if we "didnt swear an oath of fealty to the us govt" before heading into indian country. say youre a warrior. youve been out of a shooting job for a couple of years due to being "promoted out of the fun side of the business". 9/11 goes down and finally its open season on the scumbags youve been targeting for years but only getting the word to "go" one out of ten times. you go to the us military but theyre fully staffed or youre retired. but a company that contracts for the dod says "we need shooters here yesterday expect it to be hot". well if thats the path you chose and thats what you are you do it. all these companies do is help the us govt uk govt get highly trained combat veterans where they are needed by those govts without all the red tape of retirement insurance dependent care and so on.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Any soldier that is hired by a government/organisation/whatever for a perod of time and is not part of a regular army is by definition a mercenary. This is how the mercenary occupation started centuries ago ... soldiers, often foreign, hired to fill a gap in the lines or garrison forts to free up regular troops for other duties. For example during the battle of Waterloo, Wellington used Prussian mercenaries to fill up his ranks against Napoleon. Exactly the same as what Dyncorp is hired to do (in a more modern role of course).
If you're working as a soldier for hire, no matter if you limit your contracts to certain governments, or how much "government oversight" you're under, you are by definition a mercenary. A hired soldier.
There is no shame in that.
ok ill call a truce. understand that most of these guys and im talking 99% would never do this if they werent working a contract placed by their own govt. also understand that these companies wont hire outside of us citizens or citizens of very close allies for jobs that involve being a shooter. and technically while in country most of these guys are employees of the us dod or state dept etc. id call them govt employees or govt contract employees before id call them mercs. they almost always have to have security clearances that are sponsored by some us govt dept or agency. "merc" to me brings up images of the brits in africa working outside of the blessing of their own govt and such.
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Look up. Gscholz nailed it.
No need to take offense.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Whatever. The fact that the U.S. has legalized it doesn't change what it is.
No. This is not a morality judgement. It's dangerous work and the pay should be equitable to the risk.
its dangerous and most of the guys who do it do it because they feel it needs to be done for the greater good. plenty of the most dangerous assignments would be filled by the same exact guys if the pay was cut in half. call them action junkies call them dinosaur warriors that dont fit into the modern world anymore that have a simplistic view of good vs evil. but dont call them mercs chasing a paycheck.
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this topic is close to home. ive had a couple of good friends that any american would call "a hero" get killed working as contractors and they were on those jobs because they believed in the cause. they could have made more money doing something safer but if youre a warrior by profession then you feel like you are doing the most good when you are in direct conflict with the enemy. if you guys meant no disrespect then thank you.
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Originally posted by cpxxx
Definitely interested. You could email me through my profile. thx
will do.
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Originally posted by anonymous
but dont call them mercs chasing a paycheck.
I don't think I'd paint it with such a broad brush as this.
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Originally posted by GScholz
There are good mercs and there are bad mercs, just as there are good soldiers and bad soldiers. It all depeds on who and what you fight for and how you fight. If anything a mercenary has more of a choise in choosing what/who to fight for than most soldiers ... but with that freedom comes more responsibility for your actions.
The term "mercenary" may carry a stigma now, but that is only because most people don't know the meaning of the term. Most people think of hired guns in Africa or South America while the truth is that most mercs work in completely legitimate security jobs in various hotspots around the world.
I considered becomming a merc 9 years ago, but considering my military background and the additional training required I chose not to pursue it. (At that time the Saudi pipe guard jobs looked very interresting to me).
In a perfect world we wouldn't need mercs. It's not a perfect world.
the big difference that i see is this. the oil security jobs the employer is the kingdom or the oil company. dyncorp and other company only hire for jobs that are created by us govt needs and almost always only hire americans. if youre guarding a pipe the authority backing you is the oil company or maybe the kingdom. if youre part of a psd in iraq you are working for the us state dept. your clearance is thru state dept. if you are an american hired by american company hired by american govt i see you as employee of us govt. like i said before most of these guys would not being doing these jobs if it wasnt the us govt they were working for.
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You can be a Merc with very little military training, as long as you have some kind of speciality. I was recruited for a pilot job in DRCongo, they were looking for a French speacking pilot with military background of any sort, willing to operate from dirtstrips, sleep in the plane and get shot at from time to time. $4k per month.
That was 3 years ago, but the operation was canceled.
Here is the latest I received from climbto350.com, I bet it's the same "concept":
C208 Caravan pilots needed for an African operation. Remote compound living. 2000h TT, Prior military exp prefered. Must be available by August 1st... contact xxx overnight mail
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I was recruited for a pilot job in DRCongo
Smart move. Generally it's best to avoid any country with 'Democratic Republic' in it's name. 'People's Republic' is even worse.
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Anonymous...
Thanks for being part of what I call the thin blue line. My time has come and gone lol. The reason I say thin blue line is because what we are up against now far far out numbers our military,all law inforcement,and groups like yours.
I heard a very respected and learned moslem historian who is a moslem himself on the radio yesterday.He had access to, I guess everyone in the middle east. He said 70 percent of all moslems are radical and are taught from a young age to be terrorist,Man and woman and child. I am sure you understand how many that is that want us dead.
He said their real enemy is isreal and america.He quoted some songs that the kids learn, they were awful. Dont worry to much about some of the things that have and will be said by the left here...sadly someday they will learn ww3 has started. Remember the few have always fought for the many,just this time we are up against more than a billion and a half people.
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Originally posted by demaw1
Anonymous...
Thanks for being part of what I call the thin blue line. My time has come and gone lol. The reason I say thin blue line is because what we are up against now far far out numbers our military,all law inforcement,and groups like yours.
I heard a very respected and learned moslem historian who is a moslem himself on the radio yesterday.He had access to, I guess everyone in the middle east. He said 70 percent of all moslems are radical and are taught from a young age to be terrorist,Man and woman and child. I am sure you understand how many that is that want us dead.
He said their real enemy is isreal and america.He quoted some songs that the kids learn, they were awful. Dont worry to much about some of the things that have and will be said by the left here...sadly someday they will learn ww3 has started. Remember the few have always fought for the many,just this time we are up against more than a billion and a half people.
i dont buy the seventy percent. and the more muslim or arab that gets first hand experience with western world the less the "great satan" propoganda bs will hold with the young crazy stupid ones. many times young captured afghani or iraqi "punk" very shocked when they dont get their throat cut by coalition. also these guys are shocked when older iraqi soldier tell them iraqi to iraqi that everything the holy man from iran has been telling them is bs. people get comfortable get a family they have a real life not as easy for them to be dragged into being insurgent for bs cause. and also almost everyone more emotional when they young especially guys. if i was fourteen and my church leader told me occupying forces were raping women where i lived would be very easy to pick up the rifle. when youre young you trust your elders. sad part is when elders abuse this trust.
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RE the Seals all failing on my pals course: Annon is absolutely correct, don't assume that the teams guys aren't as capable as the x-army Tier1 guys, it comes down to how long they had been out of the service and not training (in my pals case at TC, all of the seals including the x training O from Team 6 had been retired for a quite a bit of time, at this stage of the game, most of the younger and guys still training are already working...plus pistol shooting is what busted most of them, and frankly, well, it's a pistol, not a carbine, but that 's what they seem to be down to as far as the weeding out process for what they are looking for). Also TC is owned and operated by some x-Delta guys, who understandably are more..pro army then navy (my pals observation during selection).
Hey annon, I'm considering a training course or two at BW to see how things are done there, are you still working there? If you're ever up here in this neck of the woods (Calgary, Alberta, Canada), look me up (below URL's).
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Anonymous.....
If you go to Dennis Prager.com you will i believe be able to hear the interview. I was working and heard pieces of it and am planning to hear it tomarrow if I can. I would really be interested in your opionion of it , if you do.
I think the guy was a leader in one of the terrorist groups,like I said I will listen tomarrow.