Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: thrila on August 28, 2004, 05:28:53 AM
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I don't mind it myself as it's not often i fly a low ENY plane, but i know a number of people who don't like it.
I was thinking of instead of disabling the outnumbering country's planes, how about disabling their offensive capability. If a country's % gets too high then disable 1000lb bombs, higher still and disable 500lb bombs. This way the outnumbering country must make more sorties to disable a base to the same degree as an aposing country.
This way a country with a large number advantage can still fly their fave plane, but are at a disadvantage when attacking.
Sorry if this idea has been discussed before, i admit i've not read every post in the 8 page thread.
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Good idea Thrila , only problem is that would create a bigger nastier horde.
I've totally enjoyed the better more even fites lately along with seeing squads like the AK's on the same side even if only for a tour.
Hows about adjusting the ranking so players or squads score higher the longer they fly for lower # country.
For the moment tho HT's idea is working other than peeing in peoples favorite rides.
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I've said the same thing in 2 other threads.
Actually if you want you can take it farther than that.
Standard loadout would be 500lb bomb.
Country with the high #'s only gets 250s. (Could if it gets too bad lose em entirely)
Country with least #'s gets 1k's to help them counterattack.
If you watch real footage of attack planes from 1942,43 they only had small bombs.
Even the bombers were loading small bombs mostly with maybe a couple of 1k's.
It wasn't until near the end of the war that supply got enough ahead of demand that 1k bombs became common.
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I must agree the Eny disablement thingy is not working well. Im thinking as an alternative why not make Perk rides FREE for the team that is seriously outmanned. Or limit Fuel or Ord or Troops for the dominant team. Perhaps some combination of alll of the above might work better.
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Originally posted by sax
Hows about adjusting the ranking so players or squads score higher the longer they fly for lower # country.
I think a score mod would bump things in the desired direction, it sure wouldn't do be constrictive in any way.
(I'm for any side equalizing remidies, even ENY disablements.)
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The score thing wouldn't work. You'd create a hoarde of jumpers just so that they can get first place. Then they'd brag about it.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
The score thing wouldn't work. You'd create a hoarde of jumpers just so that they can get first place. Then they'd brag about it.
As long as the "jumpers" would even out the teams I would call it a great success. I really don't care about the score in itself.
But, assuming that score matters...
It is easier to get good score flying for the swollen side, generally speaking there is less risk and greater "score potential" in flying with the bigger side.
To have a score mod that takes this into account only seems fair to me.
I'm aware that there are many situations where you could fly for the big side and still be locally outnumbered, but I'm treating this as an exception.
You're right in saying that "the score thing won't work", at least in the sense that it doesn't fix everything. Many players don't care about score, but far more players do care.
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I think the ENY disabler is working great. It still needs a few little tweaks, but all in all, it is doing what it is supposed to do, and with success.
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I say quit bellyaching about the hoardes, leave our plane sets alone, and if you have to have balanced numbers, make the two weekers balance the arena. Is it fair to tell me I can't fly a p51 if the bish have ten more two weekers on than the knights? I like being outnumbered from time honestly, its realistic. Do you think germany started carrying on because russia had more soldiers? Maybe if you could pork their fuel like you used to, you could slow them down eh? Oh yeah that's gone now. Well maybe if you could go and get a town down with a couple of guys behind enemy lines and draw them off the front... oh yeah we can't do that anymore either, the towns are huge now to prevent just that... well maybe we could fly to a far off base out of the way of the front lines... oh yeah can't do that either the fuel burn rate is 2x... How about a CV attack to a location off the front... well that would be ok for a minute or two till someone shows up in a single 110 and takes all the guns down... anyone else see a pattern here? Honestly guys, this bellyaching is starting to effect everyone's game play.
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Most people are really missing the point here.
For the most part, numbers ARE NOT changing.
The horde is still the horde, but in different planes (can you say early war), or a lot of then are sitting in the tower crying into a towel or on the BBS.
Ya don't want to balance numbers ... oh well ... grab an early war plane. Ya might have some fun.
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The problem is, who cares if you can't take bombs? I'll just strafe everything in my La-7, Spit 9, etc. Most of the uber horde gangbanger losers fly the low ENY planes, which most of don't carry an overwhelming attack capability.
The idea of lessening the amount of fuel for an overwhelming country is good, because it actually serves the same purpose as the time limiter in between sorties. It sucks to only be able to take your La-7 to the closest gangbang at full throttle only to find out that you're nearly out of gas.
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Keep the dweebomatics, but disable ordinance.
Somehow I dont think that works.
Buff pilots and jabo pilots with no bombs, that will not even the numbers but lower them, when people leave.
Its been said before but the planes that get disabled have different models. Whats wrong with the p51b, spit5, la5.
It's not like planes are disabled all the time, seems to me its been very fair to all sides.
This new system seems to work
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I think the simplest way to do it is to use the AW system and limit the amount of planes that can up from a Large, Medium, Small base at one time.
You spread out the fight, make it harder for the horde to solidify, and let everybody fly their own plane.
Better yet, you can still use a percentage system to keep the fights open. for instance:
(80 Rooks)
Max Large AF = 20
Max Medium AF = 13
Max Small AF = 8
(60 Bish)
Max Large AF = 30
Max Medium AF = 20
Max Small AF = 16
or something to that effect.
So even it the Rooks are pushing a small AF from a large AF, the bish can still up 16 planes to take down the max 20. I think it could work.
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Jasta... THANK YOU!
I started a thread on this same subject and it was totaly ignored. Limits on the number of planes upping from bases is the only way to ease the hoarding problem.
Hoarding = 30 players swarm up from a base. They sweep to the nearest enemy base. The defenders try and scramble a defense but every time they manage to kill one of the attackers the dead guy is back in the fight in 3 minutes. It's a losing battle from the start.
You can have the best plane in the arena and be fighting the worst planes... but if it's 5-1 odds in the worst plane's favor you will die every time. It's strictly a numbers game. Numbers can beat any plane... period.
The only use for ENY values is to turn them into points modifiers. If you kill a plane with a lower ENY than yours then you get more points. Kill one with a higher ENY value than your plane you get less points. (Well.... there is one other use for ENY. It's pretty good at making people frustrated and mad so they log off or cancel their accounts.)
Limit the number of planes that can operate from any base and hoarding will be less of a problem. IT WORKS. I have seen it work in a online flight sim with my own eyes. Why is the solution being ignored?
-Buzzz
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Funny how everyone looks at only one side of this, and ignores what often happens when Rooks have even numbers - which is the Truce Horde.
The equation must take into account how many fields a country has and how many planes are attacking it relative to the overall odds.
Take a non-Rook example, Bish's are pushed back to their last 6 bases. As it turns out, 3 Bish squadrons all decide to sign on at this time. Now, they're getting piled on from both sides because Rook and Knight want the reset. But now they have numbers - even though they are really still outnumbered because everyone is piling on them, plus they only have a couple bases they can effectively launch from at all (probly with porked troops too).
Why should they have to try to fight back from this in Fokker Triplanes? The minute they get enough numbers to effectively push back the double assault, the perked rides start costing mega-perks and the sub-10 ENY planes get taken away from them.
Likewise, when they only have 4 airfields, you now want to limit the number of planes they can launch from these to start their counteroffensive?
Does that sound right?
Before you can even begin discussing how to penalize a side that is GAINING ADVANTAGE from numerical superiority, you first need to determine how to measure this. Just looking at which side has the most planes isn't telling the story.
The system of penalty should also be centerred back on the original borders. So the further you push into enemy territory, the harder it gets if you're relying on pure numbers alone to get the job done.
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excellent post dok.
couldnt agree with you more:aok
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Exactly right, if there are limits on how many planes can up from fields you also have to allow "safety zones" by designating certain home base fields that can not be porked, captured, and have no aircraft limits. You wouldn't want paying customers to log in and not be able to get a ride.
DokGonZo are you the same one from Air Warrior? If so, then I remember you as one of the esteemed old timers from there. You saw that system work. We deedn't need no stinkeen ENY back in the day. There was a designated battleground on the map and all the countries fought for control of that central area. If you had your back against the wall you still had a fighting chance because your side was more concentrated.
The thing this game cries out for is some kind of logistics model. The further you get from home the more difficult the going should get.
-Buzzz
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Case in point ... I just looked in on the MA ... odds are 151:135:123 ... Rooks being 123. On the surface, this would appear to be a minor Bishop advantage. But the Rooks are down to about 30 fields and if you look at the map, there isn't a red dar bar more than half a sector wide anywhere else but along the Rook front. So effectively Rooks are outnumbered 2:1 - but get no advantage from ENY or perk discounts.
Which not only shows the fault in the system, but also shows just how interested in "fair play" some folks really were when they supported the ENY balancer. Truce Warriors get their wish - Rooks get their planes porked when they have numbers, and get double-teamed when they don't by truce weanies who don't take a heavy ENY penalty.
Well done.
Being made to fly planes I didn't want to didn't bother me ... but seeing people blatantly abuse the code HT put in to make things fairer for THEM does.
The ENY balancer combined with perk discounts is "ok" in concept ... but the logic to determine when to apply it, where to apply it, and with how much force is completely missing.
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Originally posted by Buzzz
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DokGonZo are you the same one from Air Warrior?
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The one and only ... fortunately.
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IT'S NOT WORKING AND IT IS A REAL PAIN!!!!!!!!!!Please revert to the original patch and find another way to settle the imbalance issue before I am forced to log out for good.
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And Seek to Add my Voice here. I am Way pissed and Hot.
I have some very valid points to make
Hear this out. I am not normally upset by much in the game, but this one has be way frustrated.
Roster:
Bish 90 some, Knight 110, Rook, about 70 Odd.
Bish had about 120 fields or so, KNight he around 70 and Rooks about 23.
See the issue so far? Knights had more players, but were restricted in the planes they could fly, The Bish had more bases, and no restrictions, the Rook could fly anything they wanted and it was cheap to do so.
Heres my questions;
What good are perk points if you cannot fly the plane you paid for? What good is the "Balancing Effect" of ENY when it clearly does not balance the game in regard to base capture. As far as preventing capture it has done a splendid job. Has anyone noted a map reset that is NOT done by Skuzzy Every Friday? I havent been there 24/7, so my knowledge of this event is lacking.
My Suggestion;
Tie ENY to the number of fighter Hangers up at any one field. If you have only one fighter Hanger up at say A38, you can only up Fighters at A38 with a 20 ENY or greater, only 2 fighter Hangers up, 10 ENY or greater. only 3 up, 7 ENY, 4 hangers, 5 ENY. At least you would then have the option of upping from a remote field. This would fix ppl upping an LA7 at the last minute to Nail the C-47, give greater meaning to protecting your field, make dropping a Fighter Hanger have more signifigance. And not to mention, I can then use my perks.
Overall, if the obove suggestions are to hard to implement, then remove ENY or Remove Perks. Having both is self-defeating.
It's been a great Game, and I will keep flying, for now. I am sure HTC is tearing his hair out over the whines, But this is REALLY Frustrating. Frustrating Enough to call it a bug methinks.
IT's PORKED.
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DOK...I agree with what you are saying. makes alot of sense. The new system rearly effect me do to the fact I mainly fly high ENY planes.
To me, it is the community that should address the numbers issue NOT HT. I have noticed the numbers being closer lately. (excluding the typical 3-4 hr period on sunday night) I am not convinced it's due to people changing sides to even the numbers. I believe it's more due to them logging off. Seems as though not as many people playing the game these days.
As you stated in a previous post about the numbers on tonight. Rook were out numbered and there probably weren't 20 total Bish and knits fighting up North. As you stated both of those countries were slamming the Rooks in hopes for a reset. Which is understandable. It's just part of the way the game is.
Numbers always change through out the day. Sometimes your country has the advantage and other times your busting your tail to just survive. Like i said earlier, this system doesn't really effect me, but I do understand those that point out that no one should be forced to move to a different country just to be able to fly a certian plane.
I applaud HT for his effort to help balance the MA. Sometimes change works and other times is doesn't. Unfortuantely this idea is not working to make the game a more enjoyable place to be. Bottom line, the community should try to even the counties out, NOT HT.
Hawk, I can't really agree on your idea. mainly because the ones that are going to be effected the most is the county that is being swarmed. If your country is way outnumbered and getting pounded. Your idea will just make it that much harder for them to defend. The go pork the FH's so they can't up certian planes idea is very bad IMO. I wish HT would actually make killing barracks 100 times harder. As it is now 1 plane makes 1 staffing pass and poof no troops. To often I have seen troops disabled 4 -5 fields back from the front lines by some dweebs that have nothing better to do. I don't have a problem with them porking troops so as to slow the enemy advance. But let's be realistic shooting 10 bullets at the barracks and it's diabled is rediculious. Should make it so it's a very hard thing to do, not a very easy thing.
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You know what this idea will produce? Vultures will hit all but one FH and then feast on A6M2's and Hurri I's. Remember the mindset you're dealing with.
Also, limiting field launch capacity will not be consistently useful. Some maps have fields spaced pretty close together, so clamping the launch rate wouldn't affect much. Some maps are more spread out so clamping would mean a lot of people can't use the only field within 2 sectors of the next nearest airfield to attack.
The ENY/Perk method can work ... there have been plenty of ideas posted that would be fair and relatively easy to implement. But the current incarnation isn't leveling odds, and is only really punishing one country while the other two take advantage of it.
That being said, the fact that this change hasn't affected the odds indicates that the problem may be something more specific to the community than the game.
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Originally posted by SFCHONDO
... I wish HT would actually make killing barracks 100 times harder. As it is now 1 plane makes 1 staffing pass and poof no troops. To often I have seen troops disabled 4 -5 fields back from the front lines by some dweebs that have nothing better to do. I don't have a problem with them porking troops so as to slow the enemy advance. But let's be realistic shooting 10 bullets at the barracks and it's diabled is rediculious. Should make it so it's a very hard thing to do, not a very easy thing.
Hehe ... I suggested this same thing and was accused by Certain People of wanting to do away with strat entirely.
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I don't think limiting the number of planes that can up from a certain field would be a good idea as this would be a criticl blow to missions. I like missions, missions good! :aok
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
You know what this idea will produce? Vultures will hit all but one FH and then feast on A6M2's and Hurri I's. Remember the mindset you're dealing with.
Lol, Already Happens. If your stupid enough to try and up from a vulched field you deserve the death. At least if would give more purpose to downing a FH. My proposal would also be a bit more realistic. Overrun fields often had shortages of spare parts (Meaning Flyable AC) as well as short Fuel, Ord, Etc.
Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Also, limiting field launch capacity will not be consistently useful. Some maps have fields spaced pretty close together, so clamping the launch rate wouldn't affect much. Some maps are more spread out so clamping would mean a lot of people can't use the only field within 2 sectors of the next nearest airfield to attack.
Also Realistic. As a compromise, what of the proposal to limit the number of planes launched per minute?
Originally posted by DoKGonZo
The ENY/Perk method can work ... there have been plenty of ideas posted that would be fair and relatively easy to implement. But the current incarnation isn't leveling odds, and is only really punishing one country while the other two take advantage of it.
Agreed, it's porked IMHO. Lets please do away with it.
Personally, this has been causing me to log out of the MA early, to play Chuck Yeagers Air Combat , and have a LOT more fun...
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Originally posted by twitchy
I don't think limiting the number of planes that can up from a certain field would be a good idea as this would be a criticl blow to missions. I like missions, missions good! :aok
Thats the whole point...
Read your Email at POTW tard! :)
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Originally posted by Jasta
I think the simplest way to do it is to use the AW system and limit the amount of planes that can up from a Large, Medium, Small base at one time.
You spread out the fight, make it harder for the horde to solidify, and let everybody fly their own plane.
Better yet, you can still use a percentage system to keep the fights open. for instance:
(80 Rooks)
Max Large AF = 20
Max Medium AF = 13
Max Small AF = 8
(60 Bish)
Max Large AF = 30
Max Medium AF = 20
Max Small AF = 16
or something to that effect.
So even it the Rooks are pushing a small AF from a large AF, the bish can still up 16 planes to take down the max 20. I think it could work.
Justa ,
Of all the threads on the ( socalled ) balancing of a war game ,
your Idea is the best one ! ! It seemed worked in AirWarrior very cool .
CHECKERS
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Case in point ... I just looked in on the MA ... odds are 151:135:123 ... Rooks being 123. On the surface, this would appear to be a minor Bishop advantage. But the Rooks are down to about 30 fields and if you look at the map, there isn't a red dar bar more than half a sector wide anywhere else but along the Rook front. So effectively Rooks are outnumbered 2:1 - but get no advantage from ENY or perk discounts.
True, but this is a "snapshot" of a particular point in time. There are many other "snapshots" that could be brought forth that show something completely different.
Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Which not only shows the fault in the system, but also shows just how interested in "fair play" some folks really were when they supported the ENY balancer. Truce Warriors get their wish - Rooks get their planes porked when they have numbers, and get double-teamed when they don't by truce weanies who don't take a heavy ENY penalty.
Well done.
Being made to fly planes I didn't want to didn't bother me ... but seeing people blatantly abuse the code HT put in to make things fairer for THEM does.
This could be construed as a "Rook Whine". Your not gonna get much sympathy for the Rooks state of affairs due to the drubbing that they have put upon the MA for that last six months or more. What I have noticed, since the ENY disabler has gone into effect, is that the Rook Horde is somewhat non-existent, neutered, or both. That, in and of itself is good.
Originally posted by DoKGonZo
The ENY balancer combined with perk discounts is "ok" in concept ... but the logic to determine when to apply it, where to apply it, and with how much force is completely missing.
I am somewhat surprised to not see more tweaking of the ENY disabler. I do agree that it needs some more and as you stated before, there have been some good ideas brought forth that could add to and enhance it and make it better for all.
What are your ideas on "when", "where", and "how" ?
I don't know about anybody else, but I have seen a greater mixture of aircraft flying around ... more diverse than I have seen it in over a year or more.
The ENY disabler has forced me to look at other planes due to the fact that it can reach a point to where the P-38 and/or the Spit V is disabled (OH THE HORROR !!!).
I am loving the P-47-D25 (ENY 35) and probably wouldn't have tried this monster unless the ENY disabler made me think about it.
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Originally posted by 2Hawks
Lol, Already Happens. If your stupid enough to try and up from a vulched field you deserve the death. At least if would give more purpose to downing a FH. My proposal would also be a bit more realistic. Overrun fields often had shortages of spare parts (Meaning Flyable AC) as well as short Fuel, Ord, Etc.
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Yeah, but extend the current troop porking behavior to your proposal. You'd have 3/4 of all FH's all along a sector of the front porked with no real intention of base capture. It is, afterall, easier to get kills if you reduce the other side to 4th-line fighters and de-ack their fields than it is to roll a C47 to the city.
But until the logic is in place to determine whether a country is at a disadvantage or not, the rest of the discussion is meaningless. Once you have that, then Horde Warrior and Truce Warrior become harder games to play. Number of players, number of fields, in-combat odds versus in-flight odds - the datapoints you need are all right there. If ENY and perk values were modified based on an equation that incorporated these, the whole system would work a lot better.
I still don't see why this needed to be "fixed" at all, though. The "game" we play really hasn't changed in almost 20 years.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
True, but this is a "snapshot" of a particular point in time. There are many other "snapshots" that could be brought forth that show something completely different.
This could be construed as a "Rook Whine". Your not gonna get much sympathy for the Rooks state of affairs due to the drubbing that they have put upon the MA for that last six months or more. What I have noticed, since the ENY disabler has gone into effect, is that the Rook Horde is somewhat non-existent, neutered, or both. That, in and of itself is good.
I am somewhat surprised to not see more tweaking of the ENY disabler. I do agree that it needs some more and as you stated before, there have been some good ideas brought forth that could add to and enhance it and make it better for all.
What are your ideas on "when", "where", and "how" ?
I don't know about anybody else, but I have seen a greater mixture of aircraft flying around ... more diverse than I have seen it in over a year or more.
The ENY disabler has forced me to look at other planes due to the fact that it can reach a point to where the P-38 and/or the Spit V is disabled (OH THE HORROR !!!).
I am loving the P-47-D25 (ENY 35) and probably wouldn't have tried this monster unless the ENY disabler made me think about it.
Why then with Bish holding almost 50% more fields than Knits, were Knits putting up no effort to take some Bish fields so that they could win the reset when Rooks fell?
I have seen no significant change in the odds or the behavior. As often as not when I log in (West Coast times) Rooks are pushed back to some degree and when we finally amass enough numbers to overcome the double-team, we have to do it with an ENY disadvantage.
And no it's not "Rook Whine" ... I scan the map and see who's in contact with who.
When, where, how ... as I said in my prior post, combine number of planes, number of fields, and the difference between in-combat odds and in-flight odds (i.e. if it's 100:100:100 and you have 140 planes attacking your front, you're getting truced). My preference would be that until you have more fields than you started with there's no ENY kick-in ... meaning you should be able to fight your way back to even territory without penalty.
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Actually, I'm NOT seeing great difference in less popular planes being flown. I'm still seeing the same planes as before.
While I prefer the P-38 (after flying it almost exclusively for 7 years or so of flight sims) I don't suffer greatly under the ENY penalty since I switch to a Corsair or a TBolt. I am getting ready to drag out the old WarHawk/Tomahawk when the odds are fairly even, despite the fact that for me swapping planes actually hinders my flying greatly due to being entrenched in habits formed by a certain plane.
Dok is right about the truce horde. It exists, and has existed, and it appears the ENY limit does nothing at all about it. Last night was an obvious example, and it is not only common, but existed before the ENY limiter. I'm not really complaining much, hanging around A8 last night I was able to increase my k/d ratio considerably, almost starting to make up for the problems I had with my computer and previous installation earlier this month. I was able for the most part to maintain a 3:1 k/d ratio against the constant onslaught. That's remarkable considering I'm a horrible pilot.
Oh, and by the way, even when the numbers were WORSE than what Dok quoted for the Rooks, I saw PLENTY of P-51Ds, and La 7s. So the ENY system was only working against one half of the larger two countries, something I felt would happen to begin with.
And the truce horde DOES work very well against the Rooks. Especially when the Rooks are lazy and complacent about being organized. It is NOT unusual to see 100 or so Bishops and about the same number of Knights effectively stop 200 or more Rooks, this was happening BEFORE the ENY limiter.
The Rook horde effectively neutered itself to a great degree when it grew excessively large. At that point effective communication and cooperation consistently dropped to the point that even with a serious advantage in numbers they very often could not make serious progress towards a reset. That isn't to say that there were no local areas where a section of the horde wasn't racking up kills due to 3:1 or better odds. What it IS saying is that the horde could be stalled completely with just a little teamwork, and once the stall happened, the horde effectively fell apart, and was no longer effective as a whole.
I think the horde thing is overrated anyway. I've seen effective teamwork stall hordes repeatedly. Once thrown into disarray, the horde almost always starts coming back in very small groups, virtually ineffective against a determined and organized defense of decent size. The vaunted "conveyer belt" becomes a conveyer belt of death as they come in without sufficient numbers and tactics. They just die off in small groups, often without scoring kills or doing any real damage. All three sides do this, I see Rooks do it more often than the other two.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Why then with Bish holding almost 50% more fields than Knits, were Knits putting up no effort to take some Bish fields so that they could win the reset when Rooks fell?
I have seen no significant change in the odds or the behavior. As often as not when I log in (West Coast times) Rooks are pushed back to some degree and when we finally amass enough numbers to overcome the double-team, we have to do it with an ENY disadvantage.
And no it's not "Rook Whine" ... I scan the map and see who's in contact with who.
When, where, how ... as I said in my prior post, combine number of planes, number of fields, and the difference between in-combat odds and in-flight odds (i.e. if it's 100:100:100 and you have 140 planes attacking your front, you're getting truced). My preference would be that until you have more fields than you started with there's no ENY kick-in ... meaning you should be able to fight your way back to even territory without penalty.
Isn't it funny that what happened mostly on Sunday nights was taken to be the constant norm for the arena for the entire week?
I'm seeing NOTHING different during the week than I was before. Something I predicted would be true.
You are correct, the truce does exist, there is no other reason for what you saw and what is often seen.
The position I have is the same I had before. I'm not terribly worried about the ENY limit for myself, it rarely affects me as I never fly those planes anyway. But I have always felt it better to give something to the group suffering the worst odds without taking from the others. The example you gave is the norm, and why taking from a group rather than giving to the other is bad. It would be far better to make perk planes so cheap for the outnumbered side as to make them irresistable. Almost to the point of the system issuing messages telling players on the outnumbered side "you can have a practically for free".
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
But until the logic is in place to determine whether a country is at a disadvantage or not, the rest of the discussion is meaningless. Once you have that, then Horde Warrior and Truce Warrior become harder games to play. Number of players, number of fields, in-combat odds versus in-flight odds - the datapoints you need are all right there. If ENY and perk values were modified based on an equation that incorporated these, the whole system would work a lot better.
I still don't see why this needed to be "fixed" at all, though. The "game" we play really hasn't changed in almost 20 years.
Facts. Solutions. Plain and simple.
Horde Warrior never has been the ONLY problem, and Truce Warrior IS a serious problem, and is basically "gaming the game" for the ENY limiter.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
True, but this is a "snapshot" of a particular point in time. There are many other "snapshots" that could be brought forth that show something completely different.
This could be construed as a "Rook Whine". Your not gonna get much sympathy for the Rooks state of affairs due to the drubbing that they have put upon the MA for that last six months or more. What I have noticed, since the ENY disabler has gone into effect, is that the Rook Horde is somewhat non-existent, neutered, or both. That, in and of itself is good.
I am somewhat surprised to not see more tweaking of the ENY disabler. I do agree that it needs some more and as you stated before, there have been some good ideas brought forth that could add to and enhance it and make it better for all.
What are your ideas on "when", "where", and "how" ?
I don't know about anybody else, but I have seen a greater mixture of aircraft flying around ... more diverse than I have seen it in over a year or more.
The ENY disabler has forced me to look at other planes due to the fact that it can reach a point to where the P-38 and/or the Spit V is disabled (OH THE HORROR !!!).
I am loving the P-47-D25 (ENY 35) and probably wouldn't have tried this monster unless the ENY disabler made me think about it.
That "snapshot" is more the norm than not. You could show a few snapshots to make any point you wanted, but they would not necessarily be all that valid, and neither would the point. You could show a snapshot from a Sunday night RJO, but that would not really show the norm that currently exists in the arena.
I'm not whining. It really didn't hurt me anyway, and for example last night I figure my k/d ratio was at least 2:1 or more (outstanding for me, I'm a truly lousy pilot). Again, the ENY deal doesn't bug me much really, I needed to get some seat time in a couple of other planes I like anyway. It's more of an incentive to fly the Corsair and TBolt than anything else. I need to fly the WarHawk some as well.
I'm not at all surprised that there has not been more tweaking. Hitech appeared to be well pleased with the results in most all of his posts. Besides theyare supposedly working very hard on the next MAJOR patch. So long as the loudest whiners were placated, the din has been reduced and they can work with less distraction.
I have not seen any more diversity really, although larger numbers of opponents do tend to produce a slightly wider variety of planes, though not any different than what I saw when seeing that many opponets before the ENY limiter.
As stated elsewhere, it takes a bunch to make the ENY limiter get to the P-38 (highest ENY plane I ever fly) and I just go to the Corsair and the TBolt and fly them just as poorly as I fly the P-38.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
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I'm not at all surprised that there has not been more tweaking. Hitech appeared to be well pleased with the results in most all of his posts. Besides theyare supposedly working very hard on the next MAJOR patch. So long as the loudest whiners were placated, the din has been reduced and they can work with less distraction.
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That may be true, but there is a risk being run.
That risk is that the people who are getting shafted through no fault of their own (i.e. run squads, fly when they always flew for years but now get ENY porked, etc.) will simply bail. And while HT may indeed want the whiners to STFU, he certainly doesn't want the backbone of his player base throwing up their hands and walking away. It's the people who are not saying they'll quit here in the BBS that are at risk.
This is in no way a threat or incitation. Just what I expect to see after 17 years of observing and being part of this player community. So I see a greater sense of urgency here.
Nor should my comments be taken as a knock on HT. I see where he's heading with this idea and I've always found Horde Warrior to be perfectly dull (save for "squad nite" kinds of deals ... I refer to the relentless, nightly drooling horde). With some tweaks and tuning ENY/Perk balancing makes things more interesting.
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Well this just goes to show ya that we all look at this from different viewpoints.
There is no "Horde Truce" ... at least that I am aware of. I have not seen or heard any dialog between the Knights and the Bishops.
What you are forgetting Capt'n and maybe Dok doesn't know this since his has basically just returned, but the map position that the Rooks have on Trinity is ALWAYS (99%) the corner of the map that gets reset and ganged. Simple as that.
The design of this map lends itself to more fights in that corner. The Knight/Bish front on this maps is stymied by huge mountains and vast expanses of water. The Knight/Rook front on this map does not have the same obstacles.
For most of the weekend, at least when I was on, the majority of the Knights resources were being used at A8 and A10 ... the fight/furball went on for hours upon hours with nothing gained and nothing lost real estate-wise.
I spend the majority of my time between A199 and A145 ... Knight/Bish front. We traded thos bases back and forth all weekend.
Just last night before I quit, the Bish stole/rolled 3 bases in our northern most territory and only a handfull of Knights tried to stop it and less than that put in an effort to try and get it back. Guess where the majority of the Knights resources were ? ... yup ... in the A8 - A10 area. This area is akin to A44 on Mindano ... furball central.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
That may be true, but there is a risk being run.
That risk is that the people who are getting shafted through no fault of their own (i.e. run squads, fly when they always flew for years but now get ENY porked, etc.) will simply bail. And while HT may indeed want the whiners to STFU, he certainly doesn't want the backbone of his player base throwing up their hands and walking away. It's the people who are not saying they'll quit here in the BBS that are at risk.
This is in no way a threat or incitation. Just what I expect to see after 17 years of observing and being part of this player community. So I see a greater sense of urgency here.
Nor should my comments be taken as a knock on HT. I see where he's heading with this idea and I've always found Horde Warrior to be perfectly dull (save for "squad nite" kinds of deals ... I refer to the relentless, nightly drooling horde). With some tweaks and tuning ENY/Perk balancing makes things more interesting.
I agree completely, that's been my position all along.
My squad always flies Saturday and Wednesday, has since I joined the 1st time in AW years ago. They happen to be Rook, they have been all along, since they came from AW, and when the Rooks were the whipping boy. They were Az in AW, always, in FR. It is simply a loyal group with loyal friends that has NEVER switched sides, not in AW, and not here.
That being said, we are strong and growing, regardless of what is happening. The ENY limiter has little effect on us, while the plane in our logo is a P-51D, we don't often fly it. There is little danger of OUR squad leaving. That does not mean there is no danger of other squads doing so.
I too am all for making things better. I don't like hordes either. But, on the otherhand, organized things like Rook RJO is VERY good for the community. This should not be penalized or discouraged by the game. Rather it should be encouraged, and the other countries should be enticed and encouraged to respond in kind. Imagine rather than the ENY limiter handicapping a Rook RJO, having the Knights and or Bishops organize a RESPONSE. An arena with 600 or so players, while having its own server logistics issues possibly, would be a huge boost to the community. The response to a country having a joint operations SHOULD be organized mass opposition by other countries. Massive fights should be used as an incentive to draw more players.
I was the original organizer of the Az force, it was something I did right after joining the squad. I did it as a low ranking wingman, I simply went to the squad staff and proposed it. I first contacted Tarkus of the DDZ, and it grew from there, eventually in AW FR there were about a half dozen squads in the Az force. I think it was STICK (real name Lance, the original organizer of the real KOTH back in AW) who came up with the name Az force, I didn't even come up with the name, just the basic idea, and that wasn't original, it just worked.
I wish there were people doing that sort of thing not only for one country, but in and for all countries. What I did was nothing special at all, and I was and still am nobody. So if a nobody like me can do it than anyone can and should. It just took a little effort and thought. I'd LOVE to see an organized response to an RJO, or even just to the usual Rook Sunday night.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Well this just goes to show ya that we all look at this from different viewpoints.
There is no "Horde Truce" ... at least that I am aware of. I have not seen or heard any dialog between the Knights and the Bishops.
What you are forgetting Capt'n and maybe Dok doesn't know this since his has basically just returned, but the map position that the Rooks have on Trinity is ALWAYS (99%) the corner of the map that gets reset and ganged. Simple as that.
The design of this map lends itself to more fights in that corner. The Knight/Bish front on this maps is stymied by huge mountains and vast expanses of water. The Knight/Rook front on this map does not have the same obstacles.
For most of the weekend, at least when I was on, the majority of the Knights resources were being used at A8 and A10 ... the fight/furball went on for hours upon hours with nothing gained and nothing lost real estate-wise.
I spend the majority of my time between A199 and A145 ... Knight/Bish front. We traded thos bases back and forth all weekend.
Just last night before I quit, the Bish stole/rolled 3 bases in our northern most territory and only a handfull of Knights tried to stop it and less than that put in an effort to try and get it back. Guess where the majority of the Knights resources were ? ... yup ... in the A8 - A10 area. This area is akin to A44 on Mindano ... furball central.
I would agree with you if it were not for the fact that it is not exclusive to the map nor where the countries are on the map at that time.
There does not need to be a vocal or verbalized agreement or any dialog to have a truce. It happens very easily as a product of habit, history, rivalry, or merely present circumstances. To assume that there needs to be a meeting or something assumes it is a formal thing that had to be worked out. That needn't be the case.
I agree there are choke points and resource pits on several maps. I've noticed them as well. They do affect the balance somewhat. But I've seen the truce horde on almost every map, regardless of the position of the countries on that map. Perhaps it is to a degree a response the Rooks issuing a pounding recently. I don't disagree with that or discount it at all.
Certainly numbers advantages are transient and often fleeting.
However, you are discounting a few things.
First, the Rooks have been strong, and have steamrolled the Knights and Bishops lately. To think that no rivalry was created there is silly. Everyone goes to knock off the big guy, when given the chance, that's human nature. Especially when the big guy has been picking on you.
Second, the Rooks were the smallest and weakest for a while, and the Knights and Bishops took advantage of that as well. To think that a habit of attacking one country you've attacked all along rather than another country does not exist, is to ignore the other facet of human nature at work here, called habit.
It is simply a matter of human nature, even in games, to be in the habit of preferring to attack or fight or play against a certain team or group. I doubt that you could say it does not exist here as a general rule.
That is not to say that some don't go for the bigger challenge or the change of pace, or what is tactically advantageous or expedient. Some do, but they remain in the minority, as another facet of human nature.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I would agree with you if it were not for the fact that it is not exclusive to the map nor where the countries are on the map at that time.
There does not need to be a vocal or verbalized agreement or any dialog to have a truce. It happens very easily as a product of habit, history, rivalry, or merely present circumstances. To assume that there needs to be a meeting or something assumes it is a formal thing that had to be worked out. That needn't be the case.
I agree there are choke points and resource pits on several maps. I've noticed them as well. They do affect the balance somewhat. But I've seen the truce horde on almost every map, regardless of the position of the countries on that map. Perhaps it is to a degree a response the Rooks issuing a pounding recently. I don't disagree with that or discount it at all.
Certainly numbers advantages are transient and often fleeting.
However, you are discounting a few things.
First, the Rooks have been strong, and have steamrolled the Knights and Bishops lately. To think that no rivalry was created there is silly. Everyone goes to knock off the big guy, when given the chance, that's human nature. Especially when the big guy has been picking on you.
Second, the Rooks were the smallest and weakest for a while, and the Knights and Bishops took advantage of that as well. To think that a habit of attacking one country you've attacked all along rather than another country does not exist, is to ignore the other facet of human nature at work here, called habit.
It is simply a matter of human nature, even in games, to be in the habit of preferring to attack or fight or play against a certain team or group. I doubt that you could say it does not exist here as a general rule.
That is not to say that some don't go for the bigger challenge or the change of pace, or what is tactically advantageous or expedient. Some do, but they remain in the minority, as another facet of human nature.
Sorry ... I misunderstood the "Truce" notion. There was a verbal truce not to long ago and I thought that maybe you guys thought that it was still an ongoing dialog.
No ... I really didn't discount anything ... I was addressing what I thought was a verbal truce. You have nailed the "human" aspect of gameplay as I see it too, along with the shortcomings of maps that lends its gameplay flow to certain parts of the map. Truce hording is done by all teams.
You know as well as I do, had people/squads stepped up to the plate and tried to create a balance, as some did when the Rooks were getting trounced upon, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Why was it so easy then to make a switch and not now ?
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There's been a lot of good points made in this thread but I think the problem with the game is the limited variety of game play options available. There's a functional strat off-field strat system that is largely irrelevant to game play. Game play is focused on fields only. That in itself concentrates players and causes problems.
Some suggestions:
- spread out the fight by making the existing strat targets more immediately relevant to the readiness of fields and reduce the down-time of damaged strat facilities;
- increase the hardness of fields so that taking down zone strat is a prerequisite for steam-rolling a zone.
- get rid of the ENY compensator, from what I saw before I left it didn't cure the #s imbalance and just ticked people off;
- setup radar so it's tower dependant and ditch the HQ radar kill altogether; and,
- bring back the system brag calls on radio 6 (system: xxx killed yyy).
In short, turn AH back into a game where players and squadrons can specialize if they like, where players can build some solid and public PvP and Sqd v. Sqd rivalries and the synthetic hate in the game can be turned into a positive instead of the lame-ass whine fest it is now.
Raise the required IQ in the game and I'll bet dollars to doughnuts the player base will follow.
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Originally posted by detch01
... Raise the required IQ in the game and I'll bet dollars to doughnuts the player base will follow.
Abso-freakin-lutely.
Strat is tricky though. If you let strat targets have a dramatic effect on front-line combat effectiveness, you must make these targets hard enough that a couple Lancs at 75,000 ft aren't all it takes to take them out. It's more than building toughness ... it's also the amount of dispersion of the structures so that it takes several planes or trips.
It would be cool if prior to base captures there needed to be a serious assault on the local area HQ or other nearby strat targets. Then medium and heavy bombers would, like, operate as they're supposed to and get escort like they're supposed to. Fields on the target route would get suppressed ... and then captured once the strat was down.
Just having a zone HQ need to be down before capture within the zone is possible could lead to a drastic change in play style. In which case you could leave the basic strat system and target structure as is, and just add the zone-hq-prevents-capture switch in there. (This could also remote the main hq runner syndrome ... just leave radar on.)
As for truces ... it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to look at the map and count red dar-bars.
And, as much as I know many folks would hate it, using an early- or mid-war plane set on weekends would lessen the effectiveness of hording. Slower, faster turning planes favor defense ... and slow down the conveyor belt. Without Lanc and B17 dive-bombers, players would need to work for base captures.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Sorry ... I misunderstood the "Truce" notion. There was a verbal truce not to long ago and I thought that maybe you guys thought that it was still an ongoing dialog.
No ... I really didn't discount anything ... I was addressing what I thought was a verbal truce. You have nailed the "human" aspect of gameplay as I see it too, along with the shortcomings of maps that lends its gameplay flow to certain parts of the map. Truce hording is done by all teams.
You know as well as I do, had people/squads stepped up to the plate and tried to create a balance, as some did when the Rooks were getting trounced upon, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Why was it so easy then to make a switch and not now ?
Okay, I can understand that.
Now, the truce you spoke of by nature has its own inertia, meaning it has a tendency to continue on. Again, a truism of human nature that cannot be ignored.
With regards to people and squads "stepping up" to create a balance, I can only speak for those I fly with. And they have always been a non side switching group. They picked the underdog when they formed here, and they have stayed REGARDLESS of how bad or good it has been. They've always made a home and stayed, regardless of odds or conditions. I have no reason to expect them to change, nor do I feel anyone else should expect them to, nor are they being unreasonable.
Now, as to other squads, I have no right to speak for them, nor have I any qualifications to do so. I do not know who switched and when, and I feel that no one but that squad is in ANY position to expect them to move if they do not want to. Perhaps side balancing is not the only reason some squads moved. Perhaps they have found a group they feel at home with and enjoy flying with. Sure, you can argue they might consider "broadening their horizons" and "making new friends".
You are correct that perception and position are irrevocably tied together. Group 1 expecting people from group 2 or 3 to switch to enhance the enjoyment of group 1 are ignoring the fact that people from group 2 or 3 may be happy where they are and not want to switch, as they are enjoying themsleves where they are. Some may have been in group 1 and not want to be there again. People in group 2 or 3 may be ignoring the fact that group 1 feels they are short handed and aren't having fun. But in the end, who is at fault, and what should be done? It is a game, and people are where they want to be, doing what they want to do, because it is a game played for pleasure. That is why the solution is far more difficult and complex.
While the ENY limit has had short term moderate success, it is not at all without fault, and is by no means the end all be all ultimate solution. That is not a bad thing, unless it is the only solution ever tried.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Abso-freakin-lutely.
Strat is tricky though. If you let strat targets have a dramatic effect on front-line combat effectiveness, you must make these targets hard enough that a couple Lancs at 75,000 ft aren't all it takes to take them out. It's more than building toughness ... it's also the amount of dispersion of the structures so that it takes several planes or trips.
Very true. The trick would be to ensure that there is a dramatic enough effect on front-line combat effectiveness to make it worthwhile and at the same time making sure that effect is limited to a short duration unless the upstream strat facilities are seriously damaged or destroyed. For the most part the strat system already used in the game can be tweaked to provide this sort of game play.
Originally posted by asw (detch01)
- increase the hardness of fields ...
Changed my mind on this - leave hardness as is and reduce regen times instead, but with a wrinkle for hangars only: have hangar regen independant of the strat system but make hangar regeneration consequtive instead of concurrent, with the priority being FH's, then VH, then BH's. That leaves the field defendable right up to the capture unless there is a serious cooperative and effective attack at the field.
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With regards to people and squads "stepping up" to create a balance, I can only speak for those I fly with. And they have always been a non side switching group. They picked the underdog when they formed here, and they have stayed REGARDLESS of how bad or good it has been. They've always made a home and stayed, regardless of odds or conditions. I have no reason to expect them to change, nor do I feel anyone else should expect them to, nor are they being unreasonable.
If everybody felt this way, then the Rooks would STILL be in the hole. It took some people with guts to make the switch back then. I know a couple of long time Knight squads left to make it balanced ... can't speak for the Bish but I would bet there were some that did.
You are correct that perception and position are irrevocably tied together. Group 1 expecting people from group 2 or 3 to switch to enhance the enjoyment of group 1 are ignoring the fact that people from group 2 or 3 may be happy where they are and not want to switch, as they are enjoying themsleves where they are. Some may have been in group 1 and not want to be there again. People in group 2 or 3 may be ignoring the fact that group 1 feels they are short handed and aren't having fun. But in the end, who is at fault, and what should be done? It is a game, and people are where they want to be, doing what they want to do, because it is a game played for pleasure. That is why the solution is far more difficult and complex.
You know, I could follow this ... that's scarey !!! Reminds me of "Who's on first ?".
While the ENY limit has had short term moderate success, it is not at all without fault, and is by no means the end all be all ultimate solution. That is not a bad thing, unless it is the only solution ever tried.
I have stated the same for quite some time now. I hope that HT is tweaking as we speak ... I know he took a break about a couple of hours ago ... with all the BBS editing ... :D
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There's a functional strat off-field strat system that is largely irrelevant to game play. Game play is focused on fields only. That in itself concentrates players and causes problems.
That's something I've pushed for several times (to the sound of crickets chirping :)). It makes so much sense (why have strat targets of they are irrelevant to gameplay) it's hard to imagine a strat overhaul isn't on the list at some point.
Here's my first version,
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=88313&referrerid=5405
And my revised thinking would shift to strat increasing rebuild time at zone bases from a 1-2 minutes default without strat damage, to an hour or so with strat damage. Knock out strat, and you have, say, 30 mins to 45 minutes to steamroller as much as you can.
Charon
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I have always felt it better to give something to the group suffering the worst odds without taking from the others. The example you gave is the norm, and why taking from a group rather than giving to the other is bad. It would be far better to make perk planes so cheap for the outnumbered side as to make them irresistable. Almost to the point of the system issuing messages telling players on the outnumbered side "you can have a practically for free".
Abraham Lincoln gave a speach in the White House in 1864, one of his lines was :
You cannot strenghten the weak by weakening the strong.
- Nuff Said. No ENY Please HTC? Or make it work better?
Link to The Speach. (http://www.homeschoolgazette.org/Lincoln.html)
You know... THis COULD be HTC's Way of generating input... Kinda Like turning over the logs in a fire...
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Originally posted by 2Hawks
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You know... THis COULD be HTC's Way of generating input... Kinda Like turning over the logs in a fire...
Or shoving a cattle prod ... never mind ... :p
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HELP!!!!!!!!!anyone seen my LA7? i seem to have misplaced it somehwere! oh no, now what am i going to do? the plane is there but i cant touch it. i guess ill fly a dora then :) NOOOO! its partially invisable toooo! these planes and gvs must have been part of the philladelphia experiement the way they vanash and reapear at random.
:rofl
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I do like the concept of making the airfields more tactical/strategic relevant such as you suggest. It's unfortunate that we have to use formulas that have no relevance to the game play. Such as ENY. The whole point of the sim is control and conquer and this is accomplished by using stratetgy!!!(and be able to fly what you pay for and have fun doin it) Along with the airfield suggestion I think more relevance of cities and depots would aleviate much. Maybe put in several aircraft factories, R&D factories that would have an effect on types of perk planes you can up. (ex. want to up a p51 but can't because factory is down, go and resupply it with other p51 squadies so you can) Bottom line game play should be based on strategic importance of the map not because of whose outnumbered or the number of players online. There has to be a winner and a loser just the way it is.
Originally posted by Jasta
I think the simplest way to do it is to use the AW system and limit the amount of planes that can up from a Large, Medium, Small base at one time.
You spread out the fight, make it harder for the horde to solidify, and let everybody fly their own plane.
Better yet, you can still use a percentage system to keep the fights open. for instance:
(80 Rooks)
Max Large AF = 20
Max Medium AF = 13
Max Small AF = 8
(60 Bish)
Max Large AF = 30
Max Medium AF = 20
Max Small AF = 16
or something to that effect.
So even it the Rooks are pushing a small AF from a large AF, the bish can still up 16 planes to take down the max 20. I think it could work.
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Originally posted by SPQR
... The whole point of the sim is control and conquer and this is accomplished by using stratetgy!!!(and be able to fly what you pay for and have fun doin it) Along with the airfield suggestion I think more relevance of cities and depots would aleviate much. Maybe put in several aircraft factories, R&D factories that would have an effect on types of perk planes you can up. (ex. want to up a p51 but can't because factory is down, go and resupply it with other p51 squadies so you can) ...
The problem is that more players than you'd be comfortable with will take such a strat feature as a way to make vultching easier. That is, pork the R&D factories so the enemy has no good rides, and the let the horde (being it by numbers or truce) roll in. Not to capture, but just to make the odds even easier.
I liked the sector HQ controls sector base capture idea - that would add a more strategic element and also reduce the hodge-podge way things are done now. And it doesn't allow one side to take things away (other than bases) from the other with only a couple of Lancs at 54,000 ft.
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Originally posted by SPQR
I do like the concept of making the airfields more tactical/strategic relevant such as you suggest. It's unfortunate that we have to use formulas that have no relevance to the game play. Such as ENY. The whole point of the sim is control and conquer and this is accomplished by using stratetgy!!!(and be able to fly what you pay for and have fun doin it) Along with the airfield suggestion I think more relevance of cities and depots would aleviate much. Maybe put in several aircraft factories, R&D factories that would have an effect on types of perk planes you can up. (ex. want to up a p51 but can't because factory is down, go and resupply it with other p51 squadies so you can) Bottom line game play should be based on strategic importance of the map not because of whose outnumbered or the number of players online. There has to be a winner and a loser just the way it is.
Hey thats a killer idea there... AC Factories.. IMHO
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make captured bases dependent on resupply instead of regeneration.
bomb everything with a hoard, it will take a hoard of c47's or m3's or some other trash hauler to repair it.
original country bases for original assigned country will still use regen.
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Gets fixed soon.
I am very seriously eyeballing WWII Online. I know the Entire LTAR squad went over there shortly after AH2 came out.
I mean the other night I got on and found the knights were halfway to being unable to take a C47. ENY was 20.
B-26's weren't even an option. I tried a 205 and logged after chipping the paint off of a Typhoon and a 38 before being ganged a hoard of low eny planes. - I have film of railing this thing pretty good, and knocking a few pieces off, but it pretty much didn't seem too bothered with my prescence RIGHT on is tail.
I haven't been on much since. Just not fun being force to suck for no real reason I could control or contribute to other than just being another body. I figured that if I logged and played something else, I would be contributing to the cause by alllowing the remaining pilots another favorable point towards ENY.
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2Hawks,
Why didn't you switch countries so that you could fly what you wanted?
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Originally posted by 2Hawks
Gets fixed soon.
I am very seriously eyeballing WWII Online. I know the Entire LTAR squad went over there shortly after AH2 came out.
I mean the other night I got on and found the knights were halfway to being unable to take a C47. ENY was 20.
B-26's weren't even an option. I tried a 205 and logged after chipping the paint off of a Typhoon and a 38 before being ganged a hoard of low eny planes. - I have film of railing this thing pretty good, and knocking a few pieces off, but it pretty much didn't seem too bothered with my prescence RIGHT on is tail.
I haven't been on much since. Just not fun being force to suck for no real reason I could control or contribute to other than just being another body. I figured that if I logged and played something else, I would be contributing to the cause by alllowing the remaining pilots another favorable point towards ENY.
Grab a Jug and have a blast ... I am having a lot of fun flying the D25 which is 35 ENY I believe.
Great guns, great speed, good climb rate, and if ya use them flaps ... it can turn suprisingly fast.
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Originally posted by Karnak
2Hawks,
Why didn't you switch countries so that you could fly what you wanted?
Because I am a KNight, and my squaddies feel the same way. I have flown for other countries, but I do so under another handle.
Why? Because you build a reputation in one country or another. If someone on another side is upset with you for shooting them down, they aren't going to help you when your in trouble. I would do the same. Get the picture?
Dan.
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basicly it boils down to 1 thing for me. i'm paying good money($180.00 a year) to log on and play this game and i hate being told that i can't fly a aircraft because to many people are logged on for your side. there has to be a better way of doing this.
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basicly it boils down to 1 thing for me. i'm paying good money($180.00 a year) to log on and play this game and i hate being told that i can't fly a aircraft because to many people are logged on for your side. there has to be a better way of doing this.{/qiote]
I totally Agree.
I looked at WWII Online tonight, Better graphics, costs less.
I haven't tried it out online yet myself. But so far I am warming to it. I heard the planes are porked, if thats the case, then HT's hard work in accurate flight modeling will be what keeps me here. But this ENY thing is a BIG factor in my decision.
I also like that I can make and contribute skins, and sounds. something that WWIIO lacks. I believe HT has a good thing here. I really hope he fixes ENY. Like removes it, or fixes it.
Dan.
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They pork youre fuel and troops or ords., supply them like we use to. They porked bases 4 or 5 back get some help and supply them. Iv'e taken bases before when enemy porked our bases I would supply our base and then surprise the enemy when I dropped troops. That was part of the game. When outnumbered I would pork to slow them down. (Most people never supply) but if they did I at least I bought us some time. Outnumbered .yea alot sometimes but there were things u could do to even the odds like porking or suppling or attacking somewhere else to draw enemies attention. Just put it back like it was where you could pork fuel still. Let people fly what they want. If being outnumber bothers you (dont go Knight) switch countries. If you have to mess with what planes people fly just make the perk planes cheaper.