Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Gunslinger on August 31, 2004, 08:31:00 PM
-
Yet another thread turned into a Bush Vrs. Kerry argument when neither of them had really anything to do with what I was talking about. Pretty sad.
-
that is just wrong. No party in america, should do this or for that matter stand for it.
-
Well I'm hoping it's just a few "wrong doers" and not an actual party sactioned thing.
-
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Well I'm hoping it's just a few "wrong doers" and not an actual party sactioned thing.
not going to happen, that is the sad fact of politics in america. Personally i won't be surprise if it really pisses a few vets of and it will make bush come under critism like that of the ack of a fleet of about 30 ships.
-
Yeah, that is bull plop. Throw those byatches out the door. And break their noses so they've earned their phoney purple hearts.
-
a couple guys were handing out bandaids and purple hearts on the floor of the RNC in order to poke at kerry.
You seemed to have twisted that up...
They were Band-Aids with a purple heart on them; as in a heart that was colored purple; not the medal.
I guess everyone needs something to be indignant about but to me it is funny if you don’t distort the context.
A guy said he cut himself shaving and wrote himself up and his wife presented him with the Band-Aid.
-
yeah thats pretty darn low class. I hope they put a stop to it, or the Dems make a big deal out of it and make the tools who did it look dumb on a national level.
-
Originally posted by Wotan
You seemed to have twisted that up...
They were Band-Aids with a purple heart on them; as in a heart that was colored purple; not the medal.
I guess everyone needs something to be indignant about but to me it is funny if you don’t distort the context.
A guy said he cut himself shaving and wrote himself up and his wife presented him with the Band-Aid.
I agree with you.
-
Wotan that is BS and you know it. Any grown man shouldn't be wearing a Children's band aid that has a pruple heart. The low life was trying to make a point, that is absolutely disgusting. He has no right to do.
horrible.
-
Originally posted by B17Skull12
Wotan that is BS and you know it. Any grown man shouldn't be wearing a Children's band aid that has a pruple heart. The low life was trying to make a point, that is absolutely disgusting. He has no right to do.
horrible.
Better than lying to get one for real.
-
Originally posted by Martlet
Better than lying to get one for real.
Wrong, don't they normally give you one ffor being wounded in action. unless you were there you have absolutely no right to question that.
-
Originally posted by B17Skull12
Wrong, don't they normally give you one ffor being wounded in action. unless you were there you have absolutely no right to question that.
Wrong. I certainly do.
-
B17
Unless you want a bunch of fake heroes running around tarnishing what the real ones did, you better step back and think about why things like this need to be looked at.
There are real people who fake being war heroes.
Including this actor. (the Sheriff from first blood) Brian Dennehy (http://www.phonyveterans.com/Dennehy.html)
It sucks, that people do stuff like this but as US citizens we have a right to question this and anything else. Especialy since Kerry is using it in his run for president.
-
I dont like it.
-
Ok so we do, but how exactly do we know kerry is lying. We know we served in vietnam. So anything is possible.
-
b17
We know he served, but there are alot of questions about those medals. If it were cut and dried this would have gone away.
The only way to find the truth is to investigate, kerry could shut them up by releasing his full service record. AS far as I know he has not yet. Not that I am keeping track of this much. I do not care all that much what he did in Vietnam. What he did when he came back is enough for me to never, consider voting for him.
-
Not exactly the riots that some people were predicting is it?
-
What do you mean Thrawn?
-
his full service record. i though the military decides when to release those.
Have you served? if you have then consider my opion on you about this reversed. if not then please don't critize for actions done during a time at war.
As for me i want to serve, but i had an accident 3 years ago where i served a nerve and cut an arti to my hand. one hand looks more white than the other because they had to tie it off. i had surgery on the nerve. I will never get full motion back in that hand, and even worse it is my left hand. im left handed. I brings a tear to my eye of the though i wont be able to serve due to a stupid hand.
-
No I never served.
Oh and I am not critising, I am questioning. I would like to know the truth, at this point I doubt we ever will though.
-
you guys that are arguing for this are really barking up the wrong tree here. It doesnt matter the meaning/intentions it is how it is spinned.
-
The author of this thread titled it
fake purple hearts at the RNC
Whether out of ignorance or whether he was "sexing up" what really happened doesn't matter. However, it’s completely incorrect.
No "fake purple hearts" were given out. What they gave out certainly was simply a purple colored heart shape on a Band-Aid. It gave me a chuckle. Any thing else you all want to read into it is on you. I have some Band-Aids with snakes on them for my nephews. How insensitive to all those who suffered snake bites...
Don't think that every one else will just parrot along with your feigned indignation. Some things are just funny regardless of how "insensitive" they maybe.
-
Originally posted by Gunslinger
you guys that are arguing for this are really barking up the wrong tree here. It doesnt matter the meaning/intentions it is how it is spinned.
lol you are the one "spinning"
"faked purple hearts"
wtf...
Nice spin...
-
It is funny, but in pisspoor taste for the convention.
-
It's a stupid move. Nobody at anyway connected with Bush or the Republican campaign should be within 10,000 miles of a stunt like that.
Kerry has run aground on VN and he did the steering.
Best to leave him high and dry and present the RNC message, ignoring Kerry's problems.
The RNC powers that be are fools if they don't clamp this down immediately.
-
They did, toot suite. There are no more bandaids.
-
been much better if they'd just worn shirts and caps with this on them :)
(http://www.nasa-sports.com/images/hermanmunsterB.jpg)
-
B17 there are many many things you can do to serve your country.
Believe me the military is not the only way, look at lincoln and roosevelt and so many many others. But I would hope you would take the time to study real history books, see what your country truely stands for, decide for your self if you will love it or hate it.
-
wow.....I've only seen it on every major news outlet tonite.
Weather they be fake or "Bandaids" with what might be considered purple hearts the intention was thier to sudjest that Kerry recieved 3 of them for superficial bandaid wounds. While I agree with this the I do not feel this is a path that my party needs to go down.
A bandaid w/ a purple heart on it or representing a purple heart even in protest degrades anyone who has ever gotten one. This is something I expect from the left not the right.
(http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v001/www.democrats.org/images/people/purple_heart_lady.jpg)
MSNBC Correspondent Chip Reed,: What is that on your chin?
Pat Peel-Delegate from Texas: I have a purple heart, I hurt myself this morning… uhh… swimming a river I think it was.
-
The whole thing just reflects the republicans campaign of "true lies". They don't care they belittle the Purple Heart, and with it anyone who recieved it, just as long as they can keep a false rumor floating. Didn't the President himself say Kerry's service was honorable?
-
Gunslinger , the people doing this just dont understand..At least they whole heartly support the military,lets give them some slack if you want.
respectfully demaw.
-
Originally posted by rpm371
Didn't the President himself say Kerry's service was honorable?
Yep.
Now everyone here is just waiting for you to say the President's service was honorable.
-
Originally posted by Toad
Yep.
Now everyone here is just waiting for you to say the President's service was honorable.
I, for one, am not going to hold my breath...
-
Originally posted by demaw1
Gunslinger , the people doing this just dont understand..At least they whole heartly support the military,lets give them some slack if you want.
respectfully demaw.
Demaw that is the whole problem. If a few more of them had served maybe they would understand. Did you notice they had to wheel out Bob Dole to have a republican Purple Heart recipient last week? Perhaps they should be the one cutting some slack.
-
Yes, I'm afraid the little secret is out.
No Republican, or even anyone who ever voted Republican, has ever served.
You got 'em there.
Keep running this campaign on VN. Report for doody some more. It's a sure winner.
Nothing to say about the President's honorable service? I'm shocked, simply shocked. You being above all that denigration of military service and all.
-
Originally posted by rpm371
The whole thing just reflects the republicans campaign of "true lies". They don't care they belittle the Purple Heart, and with it anyone who recieved it, just as long as they can keep a false rumor floating. Didn't the President himself say Kerry's service was honorable?
stop right there. It wasnt the entire crowd but a few individuals.
Using this to paint ALL republicans is just as bad as me saying ALL liberals are socialist/commies.
As someone who has served and STILL serves proudly I'm voicing my opinion as a CONSERVATIVE that I don't aprove of this.
If some of my fellow conservatives on this board want to make this didnt happen that's fine......I'd prefer blown out of porportion....but I'd really like that needs to stop.
I do not think the president himself would approve of this.
-
I don't think any intentioned jokes, or otherwise maliscious intent, should involve the whole of the Military. Pretend Band-Aid Purple Hearts are supposed to be a joke, but the under it all - it refers to the Purple Heart, and thus to those who have recieved it and will recieve it, which is the whole Military.
This has been blown out of proportion, but I still don't believe it was a wise, or even low-brow wit, to do something like this.
Will the repurcussions of later generations be that the Purple Heart is nothing more than a joke? Don't know, but it could be construed from this gesture that it is currently.
-SW
-
I'm saying this current generation of republican politicians and this administration has a lower, almost nonexistant, vet population and they don't understand. Anyone who hasn't served would not understand.
I cast no aspersions on the voting population, as I have no facts to base them on. I can tell you there are more democrat vets in congress compared to republican, because it's true.
-
RPM...I am rolling my eyes...
I am dissapointed in your response, have we really gone so low as to count the number of demo vets as to repub.vets in elected office at any given time. I have never thought about it that way,and I dont know if what you said is true.
I wonder do you think there is more liberals serving now than conservatives? Thing is I dont care.
Where not a lot of the people with bandaids older women.I really dont know. My perspective is these people were misguided, anyone can comment either way, I would rather have the misguided , than the so called peace/ anti-war people doing there best to demoralize our troops fighting now.
-
Originally posted by rpm371
I'm saying this current generation of republican politicians and this administration has a lower, almost nonexistant, vet population and they don't understand. Anyone who hasn't served would not understand.
I cast no aspersions on the voting population, as I have no facts to base them on. I can tell you there are more democrat vets in congress compared to republican, because it's true.
Fantastic how much the leftists value military service in Vietnam all of a sudden when their worthless candidate has nothing else to run on. Tell me rpm where was this militaritic enthusiasm in 1992 and 1996??
But of course you will answer that was then and this is now.
"Then" being when your candidate had ideas and issues and "now" being when your candidte has no ideas and no issues to run on...
Maybe Kerry should have been "Reporting For Doody" a bit more often in his 20 years in the Senate and accompished something meaningful during that time instead of sailing on his giant yachts, chasing rich widows, and, of course, consistently voting to cut the vital defense systems our soldiers need to win - all while polishing the medals he did or didn't throw away..
-
Originally posted by demaw1
I would rather have the misguided , than the so called peace/ anti-war people doing there best to demoralize our troops fighting now.
Who is demoralizing the troops fighting right now? The problem is the mission they have been saddled with in Iraq, not the troops.
-
Hmmm, Kerry has been in office since 84. I'd say it has always been there Grun.
-
RPM....
The anti-war protesters in new york, the other anti-war protesters around America, The main stream news media that refuses to tell the truth about iraq. [ according to them I havent been there]. The blustering demos that are outspoken.
[ BLUSTERING not my word,it was in a letter]
How many different letters from different service men/women would it take for you to believe that iraq is not as show in main stream media?
He he eh you didnt answer my question lol.
-
Originally posted by rpm371
Hmmm, Kerry has been in office since 84. I'd say it has always been there Grun.
What has? The lefts fascination with military service as a key political virtue? Where was all that during the Clinton years? You remember Clinton, dont you? You know, the guy who spent the vietnam war in Oxford and on trips to Moscow...
Nonsense.
It's killing the Democratic party's leftist base to feature his Vietnam service as Kerry's most important qualification and issue. And it's fun to watch.
The sad truth is that Kerry is simply a bad candidate with nothing to run on except that one cultural issue the opposition to which has defined the Democratic party in the past 4 decades. It's not pretty, but again it's fun to watch Kerry and his Reporting for Doody.
-
And Clinton is running for...?
Hey, remember Nixon?:rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by rpm371
And Clinton is running for...?
Hey, remember Nixon?:rolleyes:
Ahh yes. The democratic party valuse miltary service in nam as akey virtue - BUT YOU MUST NOT EVER BRING UP CLINTON.
I'll just let yiou deal with that duble standard by yourself.
And Nixon? What about him? Not sure what that has to do with Clinton's lack of service and the dems hypcricy but ok..
So about Nixon..
Watergate was dumb thing toi do of course, both the tricks and espeically the coverups, but then Clinton was impeached as well.
He got us out of Vietnam in perhaps the best possible way considering the damage done by Johnson.
He did a brilliant thing in seperating china from the ussr. Who would ever think that the USA would walk out of the vietnam war with a closer relationship to china.
-
Medals can be bought by anyone at the local Army/Navy store. It shouldnt be like that. They should only be awarded by the branches. Cheapens the whole thing.
-
Originally posted by Wotan
I have some Band-Aids with snakes on them for my nephews. How insensitive to all those who suffered snake bites...
That too. So what about Bob Dole last week? When he critisized Kerry for recieving purple hearts for nothing more that scratches, was he dishonoring all vets too? IIRC Dole laied on the battlefield seriously wounded for 9 hours before he was treated, and lived the rest of his life permently disabled.
It wasnt the wisest joking jab to do, but it is hardly an affront to the entire military.
-
Originally posted by Murdr
That too. So what about Bob Dole last week? When he critisized Kerry for recieving purple hearts for nothing more that scratches, was he dishonoring all vets too? IIRC Dole laied on the battlefield seriously wounded for 9 hours before he was treated, and lived the rest of his life permently disabled.
It wasnt the wisest joking jab to do, but it is hardly an affront to the entire military.
<----is military....does not have a purple heart.....took offense to it
-
Originally posted by Murdr
That too. So what about Bob Dole last week? When he critisized Kerry for recieving purple hearts for nothing more that scratches, was he dishonoring all vets too? IIRC Dole laied on the battlefield seriously wounded for 9 hours before he was treated, and lived the rest of his life permently disabled.
And then there was that *other* purple heart that Bob Dole was awarded.
The one resulting from flesh wounds received due to throwing your grenade at a tree, causing said grenade to bounce back and blow up in the vicinity of the thrower... one Mr. Bob Dole... resulting in er... flesh wounds and a purple heart.
Bob Dole now whoring himself out to the lowest bidder.
A shame he signed up for this noble cause. He got used.
This is a can of worms. And I aint forgetting who opened it.
-
Originally posted by Nash
This is a can of worms. And I aint forgetting who opened it.
What do you mean?
But just for kicks. :)
The liberal groups who began attacking bush's guard service?
The liberal groups who compared Bush to Hitler?
Or was it the big big liberal group that picked a presdidential candidate who, despite his 20 years as a Senator, has nothing to run on other than his 4 month swift boat service in Vietnam?
-
Originally posted by Gunslinger
wow.....I've only seen it on every major news outlet tonite.
Weather they be fake or "Bandaids" with what might be considered purple hearts the intention was thier to sudjest that Kerry recieved 3 of them for superficial bandaid wounds. While I agree with this the I do not feel this is a path that my party needs to go down.
A bandaid w/ a purple heart on it or representing a purple heart even in protest degrades anyone who has ever gotten one. This is something I expect from the left not the right.
(http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v001/www.democrats.org/images/people/purple_heart_lady.jpg)
MSNBC Correspondent Chip Reed,: What is that on your chin?
Pat Peel-Delegate from Texas: I have a purple heart, I hurt myself this morning… uhh… swimming a river I think it was.
which degrades the people who truly sacrificed for their country and earned a Purple Heart - some twit trying to get on the tele with a bandaid or some twit who received 3 of them in 4 months - none of which required an overnight stay in a hospital, one of which he received for a self inflicted scratch he then himself asked for ...
leave our "war-hero" alone....mean ole RNC bee-atch - LOL
-
Some of ya'll really need to relax. I have a purple heart and I took no offense at the folks with the bandaids at the RNC.
-
Originally posted by Gunslinger
<----is military....does not have a purple heart.....took offense to it
Well I never got anything better than the NDSM, and I did not take offense to it. Now Kerry's protest activities, that is more along the lines of offensive.
-
Originally posted by Murdr
Well I never got anything better than the NDSM, and I did not take offense to it. Now Kerry's protest activities, that is more along the lines of offensive.
that's something I totally agree with you on this.
this just seems like something the left would do, not the right.
-
blah....
blah........
blah............
-
It was in poor taste. But then so are all of the attacks on Kerry's service record.
-
And Bush's service record, right MT?
-
Geez..who cares? They weren't attacking the medal or what it meenas. Someone was just making fun of that Horse faced herman munster look-alike.....I don't think it was in poor taste. The medal's value is not diminished by this, but someone who gets awarded one for some BS does.
-
Kerry:
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/militaryrecords_1.pdf
(http://www.awolbush.com/images/KerryDD214-box24.gif)
GW:
(http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc28.gif)
Wonder where he was that year?
(http://www.awolbush.com/images/BushANG22-box24.gif)
And respect to those who have earned a real purple-heart!
-
how many other swift boat vets, or any vet, did what skerry claims to have done in the same time period (4 months), without hospitalization for "wounds" and lived to tell about without???
anyone know of anyone else???
it smells and to me it flies in the face of those that truly earned the medal..
-
Gunslinger have you ever been in combat?
-
Originally posted by Coolridr
Geez..who cares? They weren't attacking the medal or what it meenas. Someone was just making fun of that Horse faced herman munster look-alike.....I don't think it was in poor taste. The medal's value is not diminished by this, but someone who gets awarded one for some BS does.
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
The liberal groups who began attacking bush's guard service?
The liberal groups who compared Bush to Hitler?
The Hitler ad never made it on the air, and for sure Kerry would have denounced it if it had.
As far as the Guard Service, that whole thing is going to get alot uglier soon.
-
All this military service stuff is sickening
1. No body is perfect
2. If I were to run for President, and used my excellent service as a platform, then someone saw I went to Captains Mast in 1994, should that disqualify me. NO. But if I lied about it maybe so.
I can't stand Kerry or his party's values, but he brought up his record and now has to pay the consequences for it. Even if it means someone passes out tiny band-aids with little hearts on them to poke fun at him.
-
I hope Kerry sacks a good portion of his team and starts playing rough.
This attack BS is BS - but it's just too damn bad that it works so well.
-
if the shoe fits .. it's hard to say it doesn't ..
-
Just so long as you realize that he and groups that support him..including that fat blob MM are attacking too..he's not above it
-
The problem with Kerry's campaign is that it is inherently dishonest in portraying him as he truly is. He is not a "new democrat" or a "Clinton Democrat". He’s an old fashioned liberal and he doesn’t have the sack to run on his record. He brought up Vietnam and got beat over the head on it. The problem isn’t his staff its Kerry himself.
Even if we all accept the prevalent attitude that all politicians lie or stretch the truth none of them are as transparent as Kerry. As an example he was the anti-war candidate after he supported the war then changed his mind again. He can’t decide who he is or who he wants to be seen as.
The only reason he has done as well as he has is because of "Bush Hate". Other then that he hasn't offered any specifics on why we need him as president.
If and when the winter soldier stuff comes out things will only get worse. I don’t see how it will matter who he fires / hires at this point. He is just a poor candidate.
-
(http://www.pogbird.com/X45/sybil_skerry.jpg)
-
Originally posted by Toad
And Bush's service record, right MT?
(http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/smithsonian/issues02/jan02/images/looking_01.jpg)
-
Originally posted by Nash
I hope Kerry sacks a good portion of his team and starts playing rough.
This attack BS is BS - but it's just too damn bad that it works so well.
What a joke. Starts playing rough??? Starts?
You guys have your moveon.org and otrher 527s that have been spending countless millions on bashing and attacking boosh.
Heck I even hear one of you Kerry partisans even made a full length feature film dedicated to attacking Bush and getting him out of office. Gee what was it called? Oh yea, wasnt it "Nash-is-a-Hypocrite-heit 911"
Yea, kerry should start his attcak. Yea OK....
Maybe you dems should have started out with a real candidate and not some rich widow chasing gigolo who accomplished nothing during his 20 years in senate and can only run on his vietnam record, his heroic service in that war so beloved by the left wing base of the deocratic party..
-
Oh boo-hoo.
I guess we'll see..
-
Originally posted by Nash
Oh boo-hoo.
I guess we'll see..
I don't think ya'll will ever "see" through Kerry
But you will see in Nov. when we continue business as usual
-
Originally posted by Nash
Oh boo-hoo.
I guess we'll see..
Yes we will, this race isnt even close to being over..
Nice to see you acceping it though...
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
(http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/smithsonian/issues02/jan02/images/looking_01.jpg)
I just liked the picture..
Oh BTW Toad. Yes, but to a lesser degree since it didn't include actual combat.
-
Great picture. :)
So what MT is saying that it's OK, or at least more OK, to bash a person who served in the milittary but did not see combat. I guess that means that any soldier, marine, airman based in non combat areas like Europe or the USA or Japan is fair game as are prolly most members of the Coast Guard.
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
It was in poor taste. But then so are all of the attacks on Kerry's service record.
Originally posted by midnight Target
Oh BTW Toad. Yes, but to a lesser degree since it didn't include actual combat.
OK, let me get this straight. Attacks on Kerry's service record are in poor taste.
Attacks on Bush's service record are also in poor taste but to a lesser degree because Bush didn't serve in combat. In that, of course, he's like the vast majority of people who served in the US Armed Forces during the VietNam years.
I lived next door to an Army SF guy that spent all of the VietNam years in Germany with his A team. He's just a lesser quality Green Beret, I guess?
Because there are "degrees" of service right? My service has less value than Kerry's simply because, while I was commissioned in 1973, the war was essentially over by the time I got to my front line unit. The fact that I served another 6 years in Cold War "peacetime" makes me a lesser veteran.
Man, if I'd have only known, eh? No point in serving unless you can get in on a shooting war, guess.
Are guys like RPM and yourself really that blind to your own hypocrisy? Say it ain't so.
-
Originally posted by Toad
Say it ain't so.
He will.
-
Nobody said the service was of lesser value. .....
On second thought I guess I am sortof saying that. I guess I believe that a guy who got shot at deserves a little bit more respect and admiration. In the same regard I respect service more than non-service.
I respect your service Toad, and I respect the effort and skill that anyone who mastered a Century model fighter must have. I just think getting shot at is even more worthy in the long run.
-
Suntracker, why does it matter if Gunslinger was in combat or not ?I dont see the point , I dont even see the point if someone was in the military or not. So wheres the beef?
-
Think that through, MT, it is a pretty stupid viewpoint.
-
I am sure my son, who is a SERE instructor in the Air Force, will want to know how some people think he is less worthy as he is not getting shot at.
Nevermind the commendations he has gotten or the letters from parents of service personnel that survived due the training he gave them.
I never got shot at either, but I ran a radio room that kept a comm link up for many who needed it to get out alive.
Yeah, we are less worthy.
-
Ahem... I'm sure we've all heard the term, REMF.
Some service members consider themselves to be superior to others simply because of their proximity to danger.
I'm not sure it's the majority. Most vets I've known never got close to combat. I certainly never did... spent years in "war zones" but no one was foolish enough to take a shot at us. At the time, we were so hoping to get the chance to test our mettle and have the opportunity to engage. It never came.
-
You'll have to excuse me if I seem short today but it was 120 out on the flight line and I spent MOST of the day ON TOP of a 52G.
Taking an award given to servicmen for wounds sustained while in combat and turning into a "band aid" to make fun of a wounded vet. kerry or otherwise should be beneith the republicans.
The republicans can truely win this election on truth and facts and should not resort to such low behavior.
Again I realize it was just a few individuals but it still angers me. Kerry could be a MOH winner and I still wouldnt vote for him, that doesnt mean ANYONE has the right to mock THAT medal or any others.
-
Originally posted by Sandman
Ahem... I'm sure we've all heard the term, REMF.
Some service members consider themselves to be superior to others simply because of their proximity to danger.
I'm not sure it's the majority. Most vets I've known never got close to combat. I certainly never did... spent years in "war zones" but no one was foolish enough to take a shot at us. At the time, we were so hoping to get the chance to test our mettle and have the opportunity to engage. It never came.
I agree with that...no one ever had the balls to mess with us..though the Iranians tested us and sent a swarm of small fishing boats at us..trying to make us think they were Boghammars doing a swarm attack..to see if we'd open fire. This happened on our 2002 cruise. There's no way that couldn't have been set up. Just like the Airbus VINCENNES shot down.
-
I see it a bit differently than MT, but the result is the same.
Going after a guy over whether a Purple Heart was awarded on the basis of a sliver or bomb is different territory than going after a guy who doesn't even show up. It's just way different to me.
One questions a man's service. The other questions if there was in fact any.
YMMV.
-
If I, with no military service, call Skuzzy a REMF, then he should kick my ass. If a combat veteran does it, it is different.
-
Originally posted by Nash
I see it a bit differently than MT, but the result is the same.
Yep, hipocrisy.
-
Lizking got it right. Miltary guys and gals are always razing each other, but if a civvie tries it...well...it won't be pretty.
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Yep, hipocrisy.
Oh?
-
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Lizking got it right. Miltary guys and gals are always razing each other, but if a civvie tries it...well...it won't be pretty.
Kinda like the "n" word. :)
-
Originally posted by Nash
Kinda like the "n" word. :)
I think its more like "walk a mile in my boots first" but yea you do have a point.
But this is definatly out of line in her case:
(http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v001/www.democrats.org/images/people/purple_heart_lady.jpg)
-
Hey - if the powers that be don't want something happening at their convention - it's not going to happen.
I'm suprised a Repub spokesmen hasn't come out to blame 527's for these band-aids.
-
Originally posted by Nash
Hey - if the powers that be don't want something happening at their convention - it's not going to happen.
I'm suprised a Repub spokesmen hasn't come out to blame 527's for these band-aids.
Well I think some of the higher ups told people to put an axe to it but I cant confirm it. either way I dont think this was "endorsed" by the RNC.
-
If by endorsed you mean "dreamt up" then I agree. I don't think it was either.
But acceptance of it is an endorsement of it.
If they've told these folks to can it, then good for them.
-
is it me or am I becoming a "moderate"? >SHUDDER<
-
Originally posted by Gunslinger
is it me or am I becoming a "moderate"? >SHUDDER<
nope the nutbags are just moving so far left it seems you have moved more towards the center but you really haven't moved at all
-
Originally posted by Gunslinger
is it me or am I becoming a "moderate"? >SHUDDER<
I think it's called the willingness to accept or admit what's fundamentally right or wrong (different for each person) even though it may be at odds with our usual preconceptions.
I have a difficult time with this, for sure. But when something rings true and it's at odds with my normal world view, it bothers me in a particular way... More than most things, and in an irrational way. I've learned to recognize that when this happens it requires further thought on my part. Often resulting in an epiphany, a shifting of my views, and the incorporation of the new idea.
But if the world turned upside down and for some reason I identified with the Republicans, I could very well be here defending these band-aids.
-
Originally posted by Skuzzy
"Lizking got it right. Miltary guys and gals are always razing each other, but if a civvie tries it...well...it won't be pretty."
Thats right..only the Navy can call Marines "Jarheads" (though we love em) and openly dispise the Air Force for having better stuff for their personnel and the Army for well just being the Army.
Oh and since there seems to be so much importance on it...Here's my record
Navy Boot Camp "Great Mistakes" Il, Aug-1 to Oct-1 1993
OS"A"School Dam Neck, Va oct-Jan 29th 1994
USS SPRUANCE(DD-963) Mayport,FL Jan-94-Aug-97 (Busted back to E-3 from E-4 in April-95)
Took Part In Haitian Ops(Spru holds record for over 900 haitians recovered in 1 day) 1994
Numerous Counter Narcotics ops 95-96
Baltic Ops -96
Wargames with Canadian Navy 96
Med Cruise 97
Go out went to Naval Air Reserve as part of Tactical Support Center 0374 Jacksonville
Rejoined Active duty Nov-98
Assigned USS LABOON(DDG-58) Dec-98
Took Active part in Op. Noble Eagle Sept 11th 2001
2 Deployments (2000 and 2002)
Qualifies as Anti Submarine Tactical Air Controller (ASTAC) (also my AH2 Callsign)
Transferred to OS training dept Air Control instructors office June 2003
Promoted to E-6 Nov 2003
Awards:
Navy-Marine corps acheivement medal
Meritorious Unit Commendation
Nat'l Defense Service Medal 2- Awards
Sea Service Deployment ribbon 3 awards
Coast Guard Meritorious Unit Commendation
Battle "E" (efficiency)- 5 awards
Global war on terrorism service medal
Global war on terrorism expeditionary medal
Armed forces Expeditionary medal-2 awards
Humanitarian service medal
Good Conduct medal
Letter of Commendation from Admiral J. Sestak Commander George Washington Battle group
Countless Letter of Commendations and letter of appreciations from various commanding officers
Enlisted Surface Warfare Qualified-Jan 02
Member NAS Oceana Auxillary Security Force. Leading Petty Officer Truck Inspection team-2
Qualified all the way up to CIC watch Officer.
-
Originally posted by Nash
I see it a bit differently than MT, but the result is the same.
Going after a guy over whether a Purple Heart was awarded on the basis of a sliver or bomb is different territory than going after a guy who doesn't even show up. It's just way different to me.
One questions a man's service. The other questions if there was in fact any.
YMMV.
Of course it's way different to you. Of course in reality the only difference is there aren't 63 people willing to say they were eye witnesses to the fact that GWB is lying, there are for Kerry.
-
Does anyone actually condone this "purple heart bandage" thing?
I think on Saturday Night Live its humorous but at the convention its at the very least in very bad taste. Its a slam on every one who has served or is serving.
-
Originally posted by Silat
Does anyone actually condone this "purple heart bandage" thing?
I think on Saturday Night Live its humorous but at the convention its at the very least in very bad taste. Its a slam on every one who has served or is serving.
Really? It's a slam on you?
-
I'm serving and I'm not as weenie sensitive like so many others here and actually think since it was poking fun at kerry and not the award, it's kinda funny.
-
Originally posted by Martlet
Of course it's way different to you. Of course in reality the only difference is there aren't 63 people willing to say they were eye witnesses to the fact that GWB is lying, there are for Kerry.
Cheeya....
These Swiftys have had so many holes poked into their fairy tale that Ronco should start marketing the Swifter Noodle Strainer.
-
Originally posted by Nash
Cheeya....
These Swiftys have had so many holes poked into their fairy tale that Ronco should start marketing the Swifter Noodle Strainer.
People keep saying that, but few can point many out.
-
Originally posted by Nash
Going after a guy over whether a Purple Heart was awarded on the basis of a sliver or bomb is different territory than going after a guy who doesn't even show up. It's just way different to me.
One questions a man's service. The other questions if there was in fact any.
YMMV.
Is it different? Really? In fact, he served with the Alabama Guard during the "missing" year. The paper work was dug up, people that served with him in Alabama were interviewed and guess what, they remembered him. While he was here, he was also working for a family freinds re-election campaign. Heflin I believe.
I don't think anyones actually going after Kerry over the medals, but the whole absurd contradiction of Kerry serving his country in VN, getting his medals and getting out in a hurry. Then sticking it to everyone he served with by that testimony he gave to the Senate, tossing said medals away in protest, plotting to assassinate senators(I wonder how he voted at that meeting?), using his vote in the senate to emasculate the military every chance he got, and then having the unmitigated balls to run for President of the United States of America on his War record and service to his country.
Thats what there going after Nash. You take one aspect of that and it looks a little harsh, a little like politics as usual. Put it all together and you get the picture. He's not fit to serve. He should've been arrested and thrown in jail for meeting with the NVN in Paris. Yet he runs for President.
What I wanna know Nash of O-Canada, whats your stake in this? Why do you give a sheet? Why are you so UP WITH KERRY? Shouldn't you pay more attention to Canadian politics? A comment here and there shure, but your on this board every day touting the Kerry Line. Where ya comin from man?
-
agh not that again...
-
I'll only step into this pile of dog dung to post this from an orginization that has a strong view on this subject which mirriors mine.
"Purple Heart" Band-aids a Mockery of service
A Statement from Thomas H. Corey, National President, Vietnam Veterans of America
(Washington, D.C.) – Vietnam Veterans of America has received reports of delegates at the Republican National Convention disseminating and wearing "Purple Heart" band-aids in mockery of one of nation’s most distinctive honors, the Purple Heart medal.
The Purple Heart is one of the oldest military awards, first introduced in 1782 by Gen. George Washington to honor the service and sacrifice of the common soldier and recognize the spirit of volunteerism and selfless dedication. It was reinstated in 1932. The Purple Heart is awarded to members of the armed forces who are wounded by the enemy.
The spirit of the award recognizes the personal sacrifice of our troops without regard to the severity or nature of the wound. It is the wounding itself that merits the honor. To demean the decoration and the sacrifice it symbolizes demeans all veterans and the patriots who honor them.
With our nation’s sons and daughters at war to protect global freedom, demeaning military service in this way is especially hurtful. Vietnam Veterans of America urges all Americans to decry this type of outrageous, disrespectful, and infantile behavior.
###
Vietnam Veterans of America (VVA) is the nation's only congressionally chartered veterans service organization dedicated to the needs of Vietnam-era veterans and their families. VVA's founding principle is “Never again will one generation of veterans abandon another.”
-
Originally posted by Nash
agh not that again...
Excellent response!
-
Originally posted by MrLars
I'll only step into this pile of dog dung to post this from an orginization that has a strong view on this subject which mirriors mine.
"Purple Heart" Band-aids a Mockery of service
A Statement from Thomas H. Corey, National President, Vietnam Veterans of America
(Washington, D.C.) – Vietnam Veterans of America has received reports of delegates at the Republican National Convention disseminating and wearing "Purple Heart" band-aids in mockery of one of nation’s most distinctive honors, the Purple Heart medal.
The Purple Heart is one of the oldest military awards, first introduced in 1782 by Gen. George Washington to honor the service and sacrifice of the common soldier and recognize the spirit of volunteerism and selfless dedication. It was reinstated in 1932. The Purple Heart is awarded to members of the armed forces who are wounded by the enemy.
The spirit of the award recognizes the personal sacrifice of our troops without regard to the severity or nature of the wound. It is the wounding itself that merits the honor. To demean the decoration and the sacrifice it symbolizes demeans all veterans and the patriots who honor them.
With our nation’s sons and daughters at war to protect global freedom, demeaning military service in this way is especially hurtful. Vietnam Veterans of America urges all Americans to decry this type of outrageous, disrespectful, and infantile behavior.
###
Vietnam Veterans of America (VVA) is the nation's only congressionally chartered veterans service organization dedicated to the needs of Vietnam-era veterans and their families. VVA's founding principle is “Never again will one generation of veterans abandon another.”
He obviously didn't receive the bandaids. He's also obviously a liberal. I didn't see a message from him denouncing Kerry's deceipt to receive the award.
-
Okay lets just end this....It wasn't a smart thing to do...It was in bad taste, and the few who perpetrated this should apologize or something. I'm sure it was meant to be funny not to diminish the ACTUAL award, though some will spin it that way. So lets leave it as an insinsitive, not well thought out Jab.
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Yep, hipocrisy.
Funny.
How often have we have threads in here saluting aces from WW2 or WW1 or some decorated hero from the little conflict we are all drawn to in a historical way.
How many times have we had a thread saluting a guy who .. worked in a war material plant making Liberty Ships?
Both jobs were important and both men deserve our honor.
But anyone who says they get that same lump in the throat and that same welling of pride talking to a shipyard welder fronm Norfolk as they do a decorated veteran of Guadalcanal or a member of the 8th AF who survived his 30 trips over Germany defines disingenuous.
-
Ahhh samll point, John Kerry co-founded Vietnam Veterans of America.
-
Originally posted by Gyro/T69
Ahhh samll point, John Kerry co-founded Vietnam Veterans of America.
The treasonous bastard!
-
Originally posted by Gyro/T69
Ahhh samll point, John Kerry co-founded Vietnam Veterans of America.
Most likely for his own Political Gain :D
-
"The treasonous bastard!"
Nope, Just one of them shaded type political links Dems cry about.
-
Originally posted by Martlet
He obviously didn't receive the bandaids. He's also obviously a liberal. I didn't see a message from him denouncing Kerry's deceipt to receive the award.
oh be quiet. Those tards with on there Chin are Dishonoring the 1000's of men who received the purple heartin WW2, Vam, Operation Desert storm and all military conflicts the US has been in. Please continue if you wish to denounce all who served and got wounded. this is not just about Kerry this is about all the Vet's who have recieved this Award.
-
Originally posted by B17Skull12
oh be quiet. Those tards with on there Chin are Dishonoring the 100 of men who received the pruple heartin WW2, Vam, Operation Desert storm and all military conflicts the US has been in. Please continue if you wish to denounce all who served and got wounded. this is not just about Kerry this is about all the Vet's who have recieved this Award.
Where did you get your purple heart?
-
Originally posted by Martlet
Where did you get your purple heart?
i don't have one, but this should be common sense in america. We respect those who have served and been wounded not say ohh sorry you we are disrepecting you just because 1 person got it who shouldn't have. you make me sick.
-
Originally posted by B17Skull12
i don't have one, but this should be common sense in america. We respect those who have served and been wounded not say ohh sorry you we are disrepecting you just because 1 person got it who shouldn't have. you make me sick.
Ahhh, so you're just speaking for everyone. You make me sick.
-
I'll say it again...
Bob Dole came out against Kerry's Purple Hearts, when one of his very own was received due to Dole throwing a grenade at a tree and having it rebound and explode near him causing flesh wounds not unlike the ones Kerry ostensibly received.
Bob Dole is a slut for doing this.
He is doing more harm to his own past, his own service, and the service of his great great great great grandchildren by demeaning the military for short term political gain.
And you are lemmings (actually, worse) if you buy into it.
-
Unlike you, Nash, and many of us on this board, including me, Bob Dole earned the right to have his opinion regarding Kerry. Whether agree with his political bent or not, his service and the serious wounds he received on the battlefield gave him the right to speak his mind on this.
You can bring up the grenade off the tree thing all you want. Fact is he served beyond that point and was gravely wounded in combat.
On a personal note, my mother worked for Bob Dole when he was a County Attorney in Russell, KS.
Seems he was a decent guy to work for back then. Go figure.
-
Originally posted by Stringer
Unlike you, Nash, and many of us on this board, including me, Bob Dole earned the right to have his opinion regarding Kerry. Whether agree with his political bent or not, his service and the serious wounds he received on the battlefield gave him the right to speak his mind on this.
You can bring up the grenade off the tree thing all you want. Fact is he served beyond that point and was gravely wounded in combat.
On a personal note, my mother worked for Bob Dole when he was a County Attorney in Russell, KS.
Seems he was a decent guy to work for back then. Go figure.
Wait a sec, lets look at what you're saying here....
" his service and the serious wounds he received on the battlefield gave him the right to speak his mind on this."
He did recieve serious wounds.
He also recieved less than serious wounds.
In fact he recieved the kind of less serious wounds which earned him a Purple Heart and upon which he's basing his attack on Kerry.
Go figure, huh?...
-
Nash, Mr. Dole never ran on his awards or made them an issue. He never mentioned them at all.
Kerry is still, even today in his speech, pressing the point that he will be a better CiC BECAUSE of his service(all 4 months and three non-threatening PH's worth). That is the dif, and if you can't see that you just do not want to.
-
And Kerry received what kind of lifelong serious wounds....
Yeah, let's wait a sec here.
Answer this and this only.
Which person came away from their combat service with grave wounds that left them with a permanent physical handicap and which one didn't....Dole or Kerry? I think he's basing his opinion on that.
I think he earned it.
Go figure.
BTW, I liked your quote from an earlier thread about who should and shouldn't get involved in stuff like this. I thought you were spot on.
I will not attack Kerry on his service. He served. I haven't. But I won't fault Dole for his opinions, based on the same premise. He served, and I haven't.
Maybe Dole should start comparing Senate Service as well. I know it would be a more relevant debate.
-
stop hijacking this thread with Dole, we are trying to concentrate on Purple hearts.
Martlet please do tell us you think those men who got the purple heart in WW2 aren't Hero's who got injured for the idea of democracy in the World. you look blinded by the following line in the Movie Patton "NO man ever won a war by dying for his country, he wont it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." The men who got the purple heart fought and got injured for their country and democracy. You have a few exceptions that shouldn't have it and are counsider traitor of the US imo. but disgracing all the fine men and women who have gotten injured for their country. i don't know that really a horrible thing to do.
-
Hey, if I tell you that I volunteered for the United Way while you were busy sitting on yer bellybutton watchin' O'Reilly, does that make it cool for you to point out that I droped my ladle on the food-line?
Kerry makes no secret of his service. shreckin A' MEN he should not. Say it, and say it loud. I sure as hell respect it.
People who come out attacking it based on, like, other than the Silver and Bronze Stars, a Purple Heart was self inflicted make me wanna puke.
-
I do not think there is any doubt that at least one, probably 2 of his purple hearts were self inflicted, though not on purpose. That doesn't mean he did'nt deserve them, but the fact that he requested them says volumes.
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
Funny.
How often have we have threads in here saluting aces from WW2 or WW1 or some decorated hero from the little conflict we are all drawn to in a historical way.
How many times have we had a thread saluting a guy who .. worked in a war material plant making Liberty Ships?
Both jobs were important and both men deserve our honor.
But anyone who says they get that same lump in the throat and that same welling of pride talking to a shipyard welder fronm Norfolk as they do a decorated veteran of Guadalcanal or a member of the 8th AF who survived his 30 trips over Germany defines disingenuous.
Red Herring Fallacy! Neato!
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/red-herring.html
I'm pretty sure the issue we were discussing was wheter Bush, a national guard fighter pilot who served in the vietnam era MILITARY but did not see combat (like most soldiers), could be bashed more than kerry who served in vietnam. That has nothing to do with civilian factory workers.
I also remember that you couldnt quite win the original argument )I think yiu even admitted as much in a short, surprising moment of moral clarity) so now you compare kerry to some civilian welder or riveter. OK, so now you are back on track, If you need to set apart kerry from somebody I can understand this desperate tactic.
Your dumb arguing style and yiour hipocrisy define disinguenous.
-
heh Grun... if not for anything else.... at least I can completely relate to you based on your horrible grasp of what should be rudimentary spelling.
I feel your pain.
-
Do you coad as well?
-
Nah, I make piktures.
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Red Herring Fallacy! Neato!
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/red-herring.html
I'm pretty sure the issue we were discussing was wheter Bush, a national guard fighter pilot who served in the vietnam era MILITARY but did not see combat (like most soldiers), could be bashed more than kerry who served in vietnam. That has nothing to do with civilian factory workers.
I also remember that you couldnt quite win the original argument )I think yiu even admitted as much in a short, surprising moment of moral clarity) so now you compare kerry to some civilian welder or riveter. OK, so now you are back on track, If you need to set apart kerry from somebody I can understand this desperate tactic.
Your dumb arguing style and yiour hipocrisy define disinguenous.
Wrong, but nice try. Maybe more words will help.
-
It's pretty obvious where you stand on the original issue MT...
Though your additional thoughts about fcatory workers and soldiers were an intersting tangent..
-
MT, you've screwed the pooch on this one.
Ignore the dog hair on your trouser fly and walk away with head held high. That's the best you can do at this point.
-
I guess I will make many here mad but here goes.
It has been said that anyone who believed that a welder or farmer etc. could produce the same lump in the throat as talking to someone that flew 30 missions over germany is disingenuous.
Well count me as disingenuous then. I have read many stories about how the construction of our equiptment saved lives. I have seen combat harden submariners from that era crying while thanking the men and women who built the submarines for taking the time to build them right.
That is just a couple of examples, IMHO no one group of Americans is braver than another. I have been shot at , fine,I am lucky thank GOD, yet my wifes father was in the merchant marines for 3 long years taking supplies to britian and other places. I would have not traded my experiance for his for all the tea in china. His ship was only shot at once.
The point is the marine hitting the beach is no better than the support marines ,who is no better than the farmer born with a disabled arm that works long into the night to feed the marine hitting the beach,whos life may have been saved by a support marine he never meant whose life was saved by a seamtress who took care in making the bullet prove vest.
I am not talking interservice riavels here , my uncles life was saved by an army cook in korea.
I may not have been able to say what I mean, but I know what I was trying to say.
-
again I ask those that believe skerry's medals are legit...
how many other swift boat vets, or any vet, did what skerry claims to have done in the same time period (4 months), without hospitalization for "wounds" and lived to tell about it???
anyone know of anyone else??? ?? ?? ?
it smells and to me it flies in the face of those that truly earned the medal..
===================
being awarded so much in such a short period of time without ANY serious injury, you'd think all you that DID serve WOULD question it, not just accept it on BLIND faith...not to even mention what he did/said when he did come back to the US...
the guys a card - from start to finish
-
Originally posted by Coolridr
Someone was just making fun of that Horse faced herman munster look-alike.....I
I have a horse, and I take offense to you comparing her good horse looks to Kerry.
For all these guys talking about Kerry's looks, makes me think someone's been watching too much Oprah or something :)
-
Doesn't matter what happened in 4 months the past 30 years is where the truth is.....Kerry has not, will not,support America, Freedom, or ME, so I will not be voting for Kerry
-
Originally posted by demaw1
I guess I will make many here mad but here goes.
It has been said that anyone who believed that a welder or farmer etc. could produce the same lump in the throat as talking to someone that flew 30 missions over germany is disingenuous.
Well count me as disingenuous then. I have read many stories about how the construction of our equiptment saved lives. I have seen combat harden submariners from that era crying while thanking the men and women who built the submarines for taking the time to build them right.
That is just a couple of examples, IMHO no one group of Americans is braver than another. I have been shot at , fine,I am lucky thank GOD, yet my wifes father was in the merchant marines for 3 long years taking supplies to britian and other places. I would have not traded my experiance for his for all the tea in china. His ship was only shot at once.
The point is the marine hitting the beach is no better than the support marines ,who is no better than the farmer born with a disabled arm that works long into the night to feed the marine hitting the beach,whos life may have been saved by a support marine he never meant whose life was saved by a seamtress who took care in making the bullet prove vest.
I am not talking interservice riavels here , my uncles life was saved by an army cook in korea.
I may not have been able to say what I mean, but I know what I was trying to say.
Didn't make me mad, in fact, you are exactly right.
-
Originally posted by Martlet
Really? It's a slam on you?
I served ...U?
Drafted in 69
-
MT, Toad is right. That hole does not need to be any deeper.
-
Originally posted by Red Tail 444
I have a horse, and I take offense to you comparing her good horse looks to Kerry.
For all these guys talking about Kerry's looks, makes me think someone's been watching too much Oprah or something :)
Sorry to compare him to a horse. You are right they are beautiful animals.
He does look like Herman Munster though.
Is that the face you wan't representing you to the rest of the world?
-
Originally posted by Skuzzy
MT, Toad is right. That hole does not need to be any deeper.
Bah! I have hardly begun to dig!
OK, OK.. I will sulk off into my cave (which is not in Tora Bora even though rumors persist) knowing beyond a doubt that my honesty has been besmirched.
and for the record..
All veterans deserve our honor and respect.
-
"Is that the face you wan't representing you to the rest of the world?"
So now vote based on looks has been tossed into the mix.
Do we vote for the candidate who looks like Herman munster or the one who resembles a chimp?
What a conundrum!
-
MT, for what it is worth, I didn't think you meant what you said, but if you get to Seattle one day...
There is a popular Italian restaurant in downtown Seattle. The SERE instructor team likes to go there often. Just don't announce you are MT from the AH boards. :)
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
All veterans deserve our honor and respect.
Yes, their service, no matter in what branch, what time period, combatant or non-combatant deserves our honor and our respect.
I'm sure RPM will chime in here and agree with us both real soon MT.
-
Originally posted by Silat
I served ...U?
Drafted in 69
Yep. What's your point?
I enlisted in 1986, spent my time working for 4.0 in South America and Carib on Bush 41's idiotic war on drugs, then transferred to Marine Inshore Undersea Warfare Unit 202 in 1993 until I got out in '96.
Again, what's your point?
-
Originally posted by Martlet
Yep. What's your point?
I enlisted in 1986, spent my time working for 4.0 in South America and Carib on Bush 41's idiotic war on drugs, then transferred to Marine Inshore Undersea Warfare Unit 202 in 1993 until I got out in '96.
Again, what's your point?
It was a response to your " Originally posted by Martlet
Really? It's a slam on you? "
Yes Its a slam on all who served.
-
Originally posted by Silat
It was a response to your " Originally posted by Martlet
Really? It's a slam on you? "
Yes Its a slam on all who served.
Don't speak for me. I'd be willing to bet there are plenty of others who would suggest you don't speak for them, too.
I also find it odd that you're more insulted by a band-aid with a heart colored purple than by Kerry calling you a rapist, murderer, and war criminal.
-
Martlet.... Many people respect decorated veterans and find it in poor taste to slander them and their medals. If you make an exception for Kerry, it shows which kind of person you are.
Go ahead and pick my words apart for some pointless argument. I don't expect much less.
-
Eagler....
The medals buzzer showed kerry recieved, one of them was a silver star with combat v, Is John Paul Jones suppose to be the only one with that medal? Or only a limited few has combat v with silver star ?
Any one can answer please, I read something about that medal when I was a kid ,but do not remember and I am most likely wrong.
thanks
-
There was another post here recently saying that the V's shouldn't be connected to them, therefore Kerry's were fraudulent.
Then I see the "V"s in the form posted here.... and yeah, I wondered the same thing.
What's up with that?
-
Originally posted by hawker238
Martlet.... Many people respect decorated veterans and find it in poor taste to slander them and their medals. If you make an exception for Kerry, it shows which kind of person you are.
Go ahead and pick my words apart for some pointless argument. I don't expect much less.
Many people disrespect decorated veterans who lie to get their decorations and find it in poor taste to give them a free pass or place them in an untouchable bubble because of their service. If you give Kerry a "no criticism" shield based on medals that even the NAVY is investigating into whether or not he earned them, it shows what kind of a person you are.
-
Originally posted by Martlet
"...it shows what kind of a person you are."
heh what a weak line.
-
Originally posted by Nash
heh what a weak line.
Which was why I used it. I was making fun of hawker, since he apparently thought it was so powerful when he used it.
-
Okay, so the Navy does not award a Silver Star with Combat V. Have to take your word for it. I'm not sure where to check for Navy Regulations WRT medals.
Anyway... I've looked at the DD214 (http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/DD214.pdf), and I guess it's not beyond the realm of reason to think that Kerry could doctor it, but I wonder why bother? It's common knowledge that he did receive a Silver Star. Could he be stupid enough to change it and if so, what difference would it make? I can see it now, all the fence-sitters unimpressed with a measely Silver Star instantly swayed by the sight of a Combat V!
You know what makes more sense to me? Some tired, disinterested Navy PN3 typed this form up in a cramped, cluttered, and poorly ventilated office and then a a tired and disinterested Supply Officer simply signed it.
-
Originally posted by Sandman
Okay, so the Navy does not award a Silver Star with Combat V. Have to take your word for it. I'm not sure where to check for Navy Regulations WRT medals.
Anyway... I've looked at the DD214 (http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/DD214.pdf), and I guess it's not beyond the realm of reason to think that Kerry could doctor it, but I wonder why bother? It's common knowledge that he did receive a Silver Star. Could he be stupid enough to change it and if so, what difference would it make? I can see it now, all the fence-sitters unimpressed with a measely Silver Star instantly swayed by the sight of a Combat V!
You know what makes more sense to me? Some tired, disinterested Navy PN3 typed this form up in a cramped, cluttered, and poorly ventilated office and then a a tired and disinterested Supply Officer simply signed it.
You make that assumption. It could just as easily be argued Kerry made it up. Much like people are coming forward to say he made up the circumstances that earned him his other medals, too.
Apparently the combat v is a big deal, though. Admiral Boorda killed himself over it.
-
Originally posted by Martlet
Apparently the combat v is a big deal, though. Admiral Boorda killed himself over it.
Different circumstance. Boorda was accused of wearing medals that he wasn't eligible for. Kerry is accused of winning medals that don't exist.
I guess it would be a whole lot easier for your boy if Kerry just put a gun to his chest, but I rather doubt this will happen. :)
-
Originally posted by Sandman
Different circumstance. Boorda was accused of wearing medals that he wasn't eligible for. Kerry is accused of winning medals that don't exist.
I guess it would be a whole lot easier for your boy if Kerry just put a gun to his chest, but I rather doubt this will happen. :)
It isn't that they don't exist, it's that they aren't given out. I'd rather not see Kerry kill himself. It will be much more fun watching him walk around beacon hill unemployed.
-
He is still a Senator. Remember he is so sure that he will be elected that he refused to resign his seat, unlike pretty much every other Senator who has run for President.
-
Originally posted by Lizking
He is still a Senator. Remember he is so sure that he will be elected that he refused to resign his seat, unlike pretty much every other Senator who has run for President.
I'm hoping that's temporary.
-
Originally posted by Lizking
He is still a Senator. Remember he is so sure that he will be elected that he refused to resign his seat, unlike pretty much every other Senator who has run for President.
I recall Dole resigning his seat... but... He's like 300 years old and would have been so pushed to the side had he lost and come back.
Other than that, I guess I'm not old enough to remember others. Has that happened in the last 30-40 years even?
-
Originally posted by Toad
I'm sure RPM will chime in here and agree with us both real soon MT.
(http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/smithsonian/issues02/jan02/images/looking_01.jpg)
-
Originally posted by Nash
I recall Dole resigning his seat... but... He's like 300 years old and would have been so pushed to the side had he lost and come back.
Not. Dole could win a Senate seat from Kansas simply by running again. Anytime. This state reveres him.
-
Ah..no disrespect intended but to shoot ones self in the chest not normally a good idea, head is better If you dont miss.
-
Originally posted by Toad
Not. Dole could win a Senate seat from Kansas simply by running again. Anytime. This state reveres him.
Elected, maybe yeah.... but I said pushed to the side. Not by the voters so much as his place of work.
-
Originally posted by Nash
Elected, maybe yeah.... but I said pushed to the side. Not by the voters so much as his place of work.
Not Dole..
Funny thing though, we know Kerry wont face that problem if comes back to the Senate. You can hardly push somebody aside they never bothered to stand out in the first place...
-
Originally posted by demaw1
Ah..no disrespect intended but to shoot ones self in the chest not normally a good idea, head is better If you dont miss.
It seemed to work for Boorda. ;)
-
Originally posted by Lizking
He is still a Senator. Remember he is so sure that he will be elected that he refused to resign his seat, unlike pretty much every other Senator who has run for President.
A Senator who rarely shows up for work, yet says " a hard days work deserves a hard day's pay"
The guy is a pathetic human on so many levels.
-
Nah, if Kerry loses he is done in the Senate. Don't know why anyone would bother coming back.
-
Nash, you do not understand Kerry, the man. When he loses, he will continue to run for Senator, and win, for as long as he wants. That fact alone should give you more insight into the man than anything else.
-
How can you already call a prediction a fact?
-
Nash I'm curious do you think Kerry was a good candidate choice?
I'll assume you dont like Bush and dont want him to be president , but do you actually like Kerry? Is he somebody you are eager to see as president? Or are there any other democrtas you would rather have gottten the nomination?
-
It shows his confidence in being elected, don't you think?
-
Originally posted by Martlet
It isn't that they don't exist, it's that they aren't given out. I'd rather not see Kerry kill himself. It will be much more fun watching him walk around beacon hill unemployed.
he is a multitrillionary he doesn't need to walk around capital hill.
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Nash I'm curious do you think Kerry was a good candidate choice?
I'll assume you dont like Bush and dont want him to be president...
... but do you actually like Kerry?
Is he somebody you are eager to see as president?
Or are there any other democrtas you would rather have gottten the nomination?
Yes.
Correct.
Yes.
Absolutely.
No. Not at this time.
-
Why do you like Kerry.
-
Originally posted by Lizking
Why do you like Kerry.
he is a libural.
-
Originally posted by Lizking
Why do you like Kerry.
He's a good person with a lot of good qualities plus he has leadership abilities.
-
So does the guy that runs my warehouse, but I don't think he is qualified to be CiC. Specifically, why should Kerry be Prez?
-
Originally posted by Lizking
So does the guy that runs my warehouse, but I don't think he is qualified to be CiC. Specifically, why should Kerry be Prez?
KIERRY IS A WAR HIIIIIIIIIRRRRRROOOOOOOOOO!
-
Originally posted by Nash
Yes.
Correct.
Yes.
Absolutely.
No. Not at this time.
Nash, you confuse me. I see that you are an intelligent guy, but then you go nutz for someone like Kerry? Kerry is so phony and generally disgusting by nature that it amazes me anyone with a brain could look up to him and see him as a leader.
-
Did you guys see that the Navy is now saying that Kerry's silver medal and others shown on his website are fake?
Kerry is a joker.
-
I have never had the chance to shake hands with Kerry and look him in the eye, but I have with Bush, and I can tell you that he is just what he says he is. There is nothing phoney or dishonest about the man, and if he says it, I have no problem believing it.
Kerry gives me the willies; his tone of voice, the way he responds to criticism, his entire demeanor remind me of people that I have dealt with; rich, elitest dickweeds that only deigned to talk to me because they had to.
-
Nuke, yer wrong.
Or you may be right... But in order to believe that you're right, I'd have to believe that you kinda know the guy. That you've followed him a bit.
Chances are, though, you had no idea who this guy was a mere year ago.
And your opinion has been formed by the ads trying very hard to define him. Both for and against. Doesn't matter...
You can hardly read anything here on the AH BBS without picturing it having come from a hastily faxed release just an hour earlier.
-
Answer my question, Nash, why is Kerry a better choice to protect the US (and Canada), than Bush. Be specific.
edit-and you are right, other than what I have studied (a lot!) since the primarys, I knew only one thing abut Kerry~ he was the dude that led the protest of the Vietnam war in the 70's.
-
Seems to me Lizking, that I also asked you a very specific question on this page which you have failed to answer.
Now, your question to me is "Why is Kerry a better choice"? Erhm... Aint this been done? (just asking)
-
Sorry, I missed it, what was it?
-
Originally posted by Lizking
Sorry, I missed it, what was it?
"I recall Dole resigning his seat... but... He's like 300 years old and would have been so pushed to the side had he lost and come back.
Other than that, I guess I'm not old enough to remember others. Has that happened in the last 30-40 years even?"
based on:
"He is still a Senator. Remember he is so sure that he will be elected that he refused to resign his seat, unlike pretty much every other Senator who has run for President."
-
Originally posted by Nash
He's a good person with a lot of good qualities plus he has leadership abilities.
Originally posted by Nash
I'd have to believe that you kinda know the guy. That you've followed him a bit.
Chances are, though, you had no idea who this guy was a mere year ago.
And your opinion has been formed by the ads trying very hard to define him. Both for and against. Doesn't matter...
And you followed Kerry a long time for what reason? His exciting and memorable 20 years in the senate? His exciting legislative accomplishments? His leadership in the Senate???? His engaing personality and charm? His steadfast oppositin to the Iraq war and the sanctions? His medals?
Give me a break Nash...
-
Ah, OK, I will have to research it a bit. I know that about 40 Senators have run and lost, let me see if I can find out how many resigned thier seat (if they still were in office) when they ran.
-
Originally posted by Nash
Nuke, yer wrong.
Or you may be right... But in order to believe that you're right, I'd have to believe that you kinda know the guy. That you've followed him a bit.
Chances are, though, you had no idea who this guy was a mere year ago.
And your opinion has been formed by the ads trying very hard to define him. Both for and against. Doesn't matter...
You can hardly read anything here on the AH BBS without picturing it having come from a hastily faxed release just an hour earlier.
I knew who he was many years ago. I saw him on TV voting AGAINST the first gulf war.
I have seen more of him than I can stand. The guy is a pathetic human. He is not a normal human, he is a pampered, unrealistic moron who has no clue what it is to be reponsible for one's own actions. I would rather die than be Kerry.
-
Who gives a rat's arse what you think Grun? I've been aware of the guy for ages. I wouldn't call it "following" (I was being facitious), but I keep up on things.
-
Nuke, that's pretty weird watermelon to say if ya ask me.
-
Originally posted by Nash
Nuke, that's pretty weird watermelon to say if ya ask me.
how's that?
-
A quick search doesn't show much. Only 2 sitting senators have been elected president, but the only Senator that I can be sure of (that resigned) is Dole, so I will retract it and say that Kerry does have a reason not to resign( A republican would most likely be appointed in his place).
-
Now answer my question.
-
I've despised him for years. Probably ever since he was lt gov. and as a slam to Reagan said MA wouldn't funnel any resources into evacuation and emergency procedures in the event of a nuclear disaster.
-
Originally posted by Nash
Who gives a rat's arse what you think Grun? I've been aware of the guy for ages. I wouldn't call it "following" (I was being facitious), but I keep up on things.
Ohh you been aware of him... Wtf doies aware mean exactlyv anyway? The name is familiar, heck I bet you dont know the difference between him and kerrey..
For what reason? You cant be aware of him for his senate record. Not for Iraq. Not for education. Not for taxes. Not sore social security. Not for foreign policy.
For what then? It's pretty obvious ur pissed that somebody asked you why. What does that say...
So why have you been aware of Kerry for?
Cmon Nash, Give us just one, I was exited about senator kerry's leadership on:
-
Originally posted by Lizking
A quick search doesn't show much. Only 2 sitting senators have been elected president, but the only Senator that I can be sure of (that resigned) is Dole, so I will retract it and say that Kerry does have a reason not to resign( A republican would most likely be appointed in his place).
So actually then, you first state a prediction as fact, then say that the whole basis of the confusing and erroneous conclusion you managed to draw from it was based on.... nothing? what?
-
Nash, you have never been able to tell any of us what it is you see in Kerry. The best I have seen you say in Kerry's defense was that he was "Presidential"
Nash, do you have any clue why your inner being gravitates to a person so disgusting as Kerry? Just curious.
What makes an otherwise intelligent person go head over heals for a slug of a person such as Kerry?
Once Kerry loses in a landslide, will you even think to reconsider how lame he was?
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
It's pretty obvious ur pissed that somebody asked you why. What does that say...
Yeah... that's it. This is an OUTRAGE!
I'm totally pissed AND I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!!!!
-
Nice dodge of the real question Nash.
Cmon Nash why were you so aware of senator kerry? Why were so aware of his leadership? In what area? Defense policy? Economy? Education?
Where was his leadership?? Where Nash?
Cmon man, give us some, I was impressed by senator Kerry's leadership on:
Is it so hard thgat yiu must repeatedly dodge that question or responsd with dismaissal or BS?
Here Nash ill get yiu started and you fill in the rest!
I, Nash, was impressed by senator Kerry's memorable leadership on:
-
Nash, you never have said what qualities Kerry has that you admire. I dare you. What personal qualities in Kerry do you look up to? Kerry is a Joker.
-
Originally posted by NUKE
Nash, you have never been able to tell any of us what it is you see in Kerry.
You wanna know?
It is that, from all I can gather....
Kerry's mind seems to think in the same way mine does.
It seems to ask the same questions I do.
It seems to puzzle over the same things as mine.
It seems to place its convictions in the same places as I put mine.
That is a frightening description to most of you, I am certain. But hey, it works for me.
-
Jesus Christ Grun, be patient. I'm catching up as fast as I can. You try going 1v12.
-
Originally posted by Nash
You wanna know?
It is that, from all I can gather....
Kerry's mind seems to think in the same way mine does.
It seems to ask the same questions I do.
It seems to puzzle over the same things as mine.
It seems to place its convictions in the same places as I put mine.
That is a frightening description to most of you, I am certain. But hey, it works for me.
wow, you just said exactly nothing about what you see in Kerry.
-
Originally posted by NUKE
wow, you just said exactly nothing about what you see in Kerry.
I just said exactly everything about what I see in him.
-
Originally posted by Nash
I just said exactly everything about what I see in him.
Get specific. What convictions? What puzzles?
-
Originally posted by Nash
Jesus Christ Grun, be patient. I'm catching up as fast as I can. You try going 1v12.
NP Nash, I'll let you Google up some stunningly memorable leadership moment or accomplishment of Senator Kerry's that just sticks with you through the ages..
-
Originally posted by Nash
I just said exactly everything about what I see in him.
Nash, give me a break. You did not list one thing that you admire in Kerry. You are hiding. Tell us what YOU stand for that Kerry also stands for then.
Don't play games, just make it easy enough for a moron to understand...because only a moron would look up to Kerry .
-
Let's see....
Go toe to toe with the Grun/Martlet/Nuke behemoth? Or just go to bed...?
Sweet dreams! :D
-
This is whats called a gangbang.
-SW
-
Originally posted by Nash
Let's see....
Go toe to toe with the Grun/Martlet/Nuke behemoth? Or just go to bed...?
Sweet dreams! :D
Ever wonder why hardly anyone on this BBS has your view of Kerry? I'll go one on one against you if you want.
-
Originally posted by Nash
Let's see....
Go toe to toe with the Grun/Martlet/Nuke behemoth? Or just go to bed...?
Sweet dreams! :D
yeah. go toe to toe.
We were all asking the same question.
You couldn't answer it.
I don't blame you for running.
-
Kerry is a pathetic, miserable slug and Nash can't tell anyone what he sees in Kerry.
-
Originally posted by Nash
Let's see....
Go toe to toe with the Grun/Martlet/Nuke behemoth? Or just go to bed...?
Sweet dreams! :D
If you had just one good memory of a single outstanding memorable leadership or legislative achievement of Senator Kerry in all the years that you claim to have been "aware" of him then it would be a simple matter for you to share it with us.
Your silence speaks volumes.
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Your silence speaks volumes.
Yeah... Nash... really, you're supposed to post even in your sleep.