Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Stang on September 01, 2004, 06:43:59 PM
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It has arrived... it's uber, it's lame, it's the worst thing about Aces High... so I'm gonna fly it and only it all month. Killinu, lets roll :D
Perk it!
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Why don't we just get it over with once and for all. For the next month everyone fly the LA7. Let's get it out of our systems and just pig out with the little rockets for 30 days.:D
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I think I will.
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please do. this will separate the wheat from the chaff.
:aok
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ok Stang, ill start now then. ;)
~S~
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I would join the 'perk the Lgay7' crusade as well, but I swore an oath to never ever fly the wretched thing. I do think if every pilot in the top 100 in fighters flew only the lgay7 for a few camps the whining would be such a deafening roar that HT would perk it.
Zazen
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thats the point ;) :D :rofl
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yup :D
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kbman
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Originally posted by Stang
It has arrived... it's uber, it's lame, it's the worst thing about Aces High... so I'm gonna fly it and only it all month. Killinu, lets roll :D
Perk it!
It is meaningless for you to fly a russian rocket, stang. Russian rockets are useful when your base is under attack and you have no country mates nearby. Or, if you go to an enemy base and attempt to kill troops. In both cases, speed will save your airplane.
Since the rooks are rarely outnumbered, you will have little use for one. You will also find they aren't that great as a general purpose plane. Save yourself the grief. :)
curly
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A million La-7 protest march? Hmm ... I like it.
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the LA7 is a monster
but i think what keeps it from being perked is its very short range with no drop tanks and no jabo abilty
F4U4 Spit14 Temp all have short range but carry drop tanks and most have a very good jabo abilty only a few perk planes lack jabo
ME262 TA152 Spit14-fair- ME163 lawndart
the LA7 is not a F4UC because the F4UC has great jabo abilty and can be used from CVs with drop tanks to
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I love the La7.
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The amount of ridicule and contempt people have for the La-7, itself, ironically proves how monstrous the plane is.
I remember it to be version 1.05 when the Fw190D-9 and the La-7 was first introduced in AH. First I tried the Fw190D-9. It was a fantastic plane and I thought to myself "now this, is a fighter".
Then, 20 minutes later, I tried the La-7 and just gaped in awe.
Don't stay with the La-7 for too long Stang - that plane makes addicts. If a person like you fly that thing, I'm willing to bet that it'll probably double your average K/D and K/T instantly.
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I don't get you guys...
Last month stats say
Killed by LA7 = 3
Kills OF LA7 = 2
Kills IN La7 = 1
Um? Whats the big threat? I got killed 73 times last month... 3 are La7... thats 4 percent.
The plane that killed me the most... 190-D9 got 6 kills on me... Still not even 10%.
My greatest kill count last month was done in the Spit9 I got 43 of my 105 kills in that. After that was the lowly 190-a5, I got 11 in that. (figured I'd point that out incase anyone wanted to call me a spitfire T&B dweeb)
I dunno guys, sounds like you are all smoke and mirrors... Or La7s just don't like to attack me for some reason.
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i used to fly la7 alot. i killed more la7s last tour then any other plane. i dont see what the big deal is. dont perk it..bad enough ya cant fly it half the time.
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Originally posted by simshell
the LA7 is a monster
but i think what keeps it from being perked is its very short range with no drop tanks and no jabo abilty
F4U4 Spit14 Temp all have short range but carry drop tanks and most have a very good jabo abilty only a few perk planes lack jabo
ME262 TA152 Spit14-fair- ME163 lawndart
the LA7 is not a F4UC because the F4UC has great jabo abilty and can be used from CVs with drop tanks to
Anyone who uses a perk plane, other than the el cheapo F4U-C, to Jabo needs to have their head examined....Siting lack of jabo ability as a justification for the LGay7 not being perked is an incredibly weak argument.
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Hey if they perk it you can fly it all the time! ;)
The range limitation is probably the single fact that keeps the La7 unperked. However with the 2x fuel burn the Tempest only has a couple of minutes more range, and the La7 actually outperforms the Tempest in everything except speed, and the Tempest's speed advantage only lasts for 5 minutes.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Hey if they perk it you can fly it all the time! ;)
The range limitation is probably the single fact that keeps the La7 unperked. However with the 2x fuel burn the Tempest only has a couple of minutes more range, and the La7 actually outperforms the Tempest in everything except speed, and the Tempest's speed advantage only lasts for 5 minutes.
The Tempest has a pretty major firepower advantage as well, especially in terms of ballistic properties. Also, noone ever talks about this factor, but it is a major factor for me personally, that is nose-low deflection view. The Tempest, like the Typhoon, has a fantastic nose-low view making high deflection shots very doable. The LGay7's nose-low view is piss-poor, on par with Fw190s and 109s.
Zazen
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Actually the Tempest's guns have very similar ballistics to those on the La-7, and they are pretty equal in rate of fire as well.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Actually the Tempest's guns have very similar ballistics to those on the La-7, and they are pretty equal in rate of fire as well.
I have never flown the La7, so cannot say from first hand observation but I was under the impression the Russian 20mm had a lower muzzle velocity and rate of fire than the British Hispano 20mm cannons. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
Zazen
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Zazen, your not.
Either of the 2 guns packages drop way more than HS's do.
Makeing them much harder to hit with.
Inside 250 they hit about as well.
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The Tempest does not have Hispano II cannons like the Typhoon. It has Hispano V cannons which are short-barrelled versions with very similar ballistics to the German MG151/20 and the Russian 20mm cannons.
(Or perhaps you haven't noticed that the Tempest doesn't have the long barrels protruding from the wings?)
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Originally posted by GScholz
The Tempest does not have Hispano II cannons like the Typhoon. It has Hispano V cannons which are short-barrelled versions with very similar ballistics to the German MG151/20 and the Russian 20mm cannons.
(Or perhaps you haven't noticed that the Tempest doesn't have the long barrels protruding from the wings?)
The shorter barrel effects muzzle velocity and rate of fire how? Just curious.
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Well, the longer the barrel, the more distance the gun powder is pushing on the round. Less distance = Less speed (to an extent).
I.E. An M16 with 20" barrel is going to shoot faster than an M16 with a 4" barrel.
However, you can't keep increasing the barrel length and expect it to go faster.
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Originally posted by killnu
thats the point ;) :D :rofl
Well ... the amount of kills I saw you landing in it last night ... your gonna need to get more than 2 per sortie to make a difference ... :D
Your far more dangerous and productive in a P-38 ... think about it ... you might then begin to understand why this plane is not perked.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Well, the longer the barrel, the more distance the gun powder is pushing on the round. Less distance = Less speed (to an extent).
I.E. An M16 with 20" barrel is going to shoot faster than an M16 with a 4" barrel.
However, you can't keep increasing the barrel length and expect it to go faster.
Is it speed or accuracy that is effected by barrel length ?
Doesn't a longer barrel mean more spin on the round due to being expose to more of the the boring in the barrel ... which then translate to better accuracy at longer distances ?
The faster a bullet spins, the straighter is flight path is over distance ?
I would also think that the longer a bullet spins in a barrel, the more friction it will encounter, which would slow the bullet down ? (same bullets just different barrel lengths).
Shoot duplicate .38 rounds from a 6 inch barrel and a 2 1/2 inch barrel at 50 yards and tell me which one is more accurate.
Is the round from the 2 1/2 inch barrel travelling faster than the one from the 6 inch barrel ? I don't know ... :D
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Muzzle velocities:
890 m/sec M2 .50 cal
860 m/sec Hispano II
830 m/sec Hispano V
800 m/sec MG151/20 (HE/M)
790 m/sec Berezin B-20 & ShVAK
720 m/sec MG151/20 (API/HET)
So the Berezin B-20 and ShVAK have only 4.8% lower muzzle velocity than the Hispano V.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Muzzle velocities:
890 m/sec M2 .50 cal
860 m/sec Hispano II
830 m/sec Hispano V
800 m/sec MG151/20 (HE/M)
790 m/sec Berezin B-20 & ShVAK
720 m/sec MG151/20 (API/HET)
So the Berezin B-20 and ShVAK have only 4.8% lower muzzle velocity than the Hispano V.
So ... would that not make a big difference over a distance of 200 to 400 yards ?
Also, bore has a lot to do with it too.
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No it would not make much difference at 200-400 yards. Both cannon are 20mm so I don't see how bore would be any different.
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At 200 yards the Hispano V shell would use 24 hundreds of a second to reach the target. The B-20 shell would use 25.3 hundreds of a second.
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Originally posted by simshell
the LA7 is a monster
but i think what keeps it from being perked is its very short range with no drop tanks and no jabo abilty
Actually, I think that HTC just doesn't want to acknowledge the fact that they screwed up by not perking the La-7 in the first place. The plane is Uber & should cost money (AT LEAST 25 perks).
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why don't all of you la-7 whiners fly one exclusively for a camp. I expect you to at a minimum, double these fighter stats: k/s, k/h. i will laugh when your hit % drops. before you whine about k/h, rmember it's such a short legged rocket your rtb time will be minimal. not even gonna bother with k/d as k/s will be the indicator of the la-7's "uberness," no?
this will accomplish 1 of 2 things.
1. get it perked.
2. show you it's not as "uber" as you think. no one questions it's a very good plane, but it's not all that.
one other thing will also be evidenced - that fact that many of you are not gonna be able to handle the la-7 in the way you think.
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Originally posted by Shane
why don't all of you la-7 whiners fly one exclusively for a camp. I expect you to at a minimum, double these fighter stats: k/s, k/h. i will laugh when your hit % drops. before you whine about k/h, rmember it's such a short legged rocket your rtb time will be minimal. not even gonna bother with k/d as k/s will be the indicator of the la-7's "uberness," no?
this will accomplish 1 of 2 things.
1. get it perked.
2. show you it's not as "uber" as you think. no one questions it's a very good plane, but it's not all that.
one other thing will also be evidenced - that fact that many of you are not gonna be able to handle the la-7 in the way you think.
I'm willing to take the challenge throughout September, if everyone else here is. I, alone, will not prove anything.
(I'd better get used to my new joystick pretty quickly here, but I will not use new joystick as an excuse. either the La7 is Uber or it's not)
Are we doing this or not?!?
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If you perk the La-7 though, can you really justify not perking the P-51D? Because I honestly don't think the La is THAT much better as a pure fighter. And when you consider the pony's much better fuel endurance, jabo capability, and performance above 10k, which is really the better MA ride? If you perk the La, there will probably be a lot of new P-51 drivers, not to mention the tons of use it gets already. So do you perk it next?
And then what about the Dora, G10, Typhoon, P-51B etc? Is it time to look at Kweassa's NPA again?
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The only problem I have in the La-7 is that it is too fast for its own good. I have to force myself to throttle back in fights lest that big engine will just rocket me out of the furball.
Also watch out for the blackouts ... they come really easy in the Lala. And I have a real problem of being overconfident in this plane.
Got a Tempest today ... he later got me though, so I'm 1:1 vs Temps in the La-7. Turnfought an F6F at treetop altitude also ... completely owned him even if he dropped flaps on me.
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I'd take an MA filled with Ponies rather than one filled with Lalas. The Ponies are rather easy kills.
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I'd take an MA full of La-7s over one filled with P-51s any day of the week. I find La-7s much, much easier to kill.
It's an overconfidence thing typically. I find that La-7s take the bait on sucker moves more frequently than P-51s. The plane often gives the false impression that you can escape from any kind of screwup, so players fly it more aggressively.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Sable
and performance above 10k,
Why is so much importance placed on performance at altitude in AH? In WWII a lot of fighting happened at high altitudes, but in AH it is the rare exception. I'll take performance at low and mid altitudes over high altitudes any day in AH.
And the La-7 is better than the P-51D up to at least 15k and maybe 20k.
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Slapshot,
Barrel length will affect both speed(muzzel velocity) and accuracy. Take the .44 Magnum for example:
210Gr bullet:
4 inch barrel: 1180 Fps*
20 Inch barrel: 1760 Fps*
(*from Remington ballistic tables)
The longer barrel allows more powder to burn and also allows more stabilization of the bullet improving accuracy. So you were right on both accounts!!
As for the 20mm, I know the 20mm Hispano is a 20x110mm round, but I'm not sure what the other 20mm is, the difference in bullet weight and barrel length could make for much different bullet trajectories.
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The LA-7 is not the uber plane to end all planes and has many, many weaknesses. It is not a very good stall fighter, it does not roll faster than its propeller turns, it does does turn a complete circle on a dime, and there are a LOT of planes that can simply dive away from it. Also, the common sentiment seen here is that "newbs" fly it all the time. So if a newb is in a plane with many weaknesses why is it that is feared so much?
The one thing the LA-7 is quite good at is neuturing BNZ and cherry picking. After a few passes (assuming the other plane does not "extend" for a sector or two) the fight can be on a more or less even footing.
Is that why people hate this plane so much? Is it because the LA-7 is the plane that most often ruins a long streak of someone's "superior tactics" of BNZ'ing with no risk to themselves or a "hard-fought and won" batch of cherry-picks?
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The La-7 does 410 mph at 20k. That's not stellar performance, but definitivly not bad.
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Bubbaj6,
OK, what do you think is a better fighter than the La-7?
The P-51D?
The Fw190D-9?
The Typhoon Mk Ib?
The Bf109G-10?
The Yak-9U?
The N1K2-J?
The Spitfire Mk IX?
The A6M5b?
Every one of those has more weaknesses than the La-7. Frankly the things you listed were not weaknesses, they just weren't strengths. That is how distorting the La-7 is. The La-7 has one actual weakness so far as I can tell and that is fuel endurance. Many things on it are superlative and others such as the ballistics and visibility are merely normal.
La-7:
Speed: Excellent
Acceleration/Climb: Excellent
Roll Rate: Above Average
Turning: Good
Zoom Climb: Very Good
Altitude Performance: Above Average
Fuel Range: Poor
Firepower: Good
Gun Ballistics: Average
Pilot View: Average
Ordanace: Poor
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Originally posted by Karnak
Why is so much importance placed on performance at altitude in AH? In WWII a lot of fighting happened at high altitudes, but in AH it is the rare exception. I'll take performance at low and mid altitudes over high altitudes any day in AH.
And the La-7 is better than the P-51D up to at least 15k and maybe 20k.
Well according to the performance links on netaces the P-51 is faster above about 8000 feet, and rate of climb is about equal at that altitude.
Obviously performance at higher altitudes isn't as important in the MA, but there are still plenty of times when you fight someone at 15-20k. Especially on maps with high altitude fields. And if you choose to, you can always start your fights from that altitude.
Like I was saying above, when only considering it's abilities as a pure fighter in the MA, the La-7 is the best of the non-perked planes. But it's not THAT much better then many of the others, and it falls down in some other areas compared to the other late war rides (jabo, fuel, altitude performance).
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Is that why people hate this plane so much? Is it because the LA-7 is the plane that most often ruins a long streak of someone's "superior tactics" of BNZ'ing with no risk to themselves or a "hard-fought and won" batch of cherry-picks?
BINGO !!! ... give the man a cigar !!!
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Originally posted by GScholz
No it would not make much difference at 200-400 yards. Both cannon are 20mm so I don't see how bore would be any different.
I really meant rifiling inside the barrel ... not bore ... sorry.
The tighter the rifling, then more the bullet spins coming out of the barrel which makes the bullet fly a straigher/longer path.
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Actually, matching the rifling of the barrel to the projectile is a science of its own. Too much spin is bad as well. The length of the barrel has little or no effect on rifling though, except for matching muzzle velocity and rifling.
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The La-7 is a definate threat to these planes ...
The P-51D
The Fw190D-9
The Typhoon Mk Ib
The Bf109G-10
cause most who fly them are BnZ artist and when the La catches them ... them haven't a clue what to do ... un-charted territory for them.
These planes ...
The Yak-9U
The N1K2-J
The Spitfire Mk IX
The A6M5b
can dance with the La-7 and in most cases, will beat the La-7.
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Wrong. The La-7 will beat all those planes ... easilly.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Actually, matching the rifling of the barrel to the projectile is a science of its own. Too much spin is bad as well. The length of the barrel has little or no effect on rifling though, except for matching muzzle velocity and rifling.
Didn't know that. I have a very basic/rudimentary knowledge of this kind of stuff ... just thought that some of it would/might explain the true differences between the 2 types of 20mm cannons.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Wrong. The La-7 will beat all those planes ... easilly.
Well ... once again ... its just boils down to who is behind the stick.
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I'm talking about equal pilot skill. The problem for the B&Z planes in your list is that the La-7 outperforms them in every single aspect. A 190D-9 for instance cannot hope to escape from a La-7 unless the 190 has altitude and leave without engaging.
In AH1 the La-7 could be out turned by many planes, but now in AH2 the La-7 turns like a Spit9, climbs like a 109G-10, runs like ... nothing else unperked. If you're caught by a La-7 now and the pilot is at least average, your chances of survival are slim at best.
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Equal pilot skill... I'd say not much stands a chance against an La-7. In AH2 I'd give it better than even odds against the Tempest. Seems like the Temp doesn't roll as well as it did in AH1, and the La7s turning advantage is even more pronounced.
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You can't use "equal" pilot skill, cause not all pilots are equal in this game.
Most who fly the La-7 have no clue how to fly it ... only how to cherry pick and run in it.
A 190D-9 for instance cannot hope to escape from a La-7 unless the 190 has altitude and leave without engaging.
Put Urchin in a D-9, and outside of Shane, he will eat the La-7 for lunch all day long.
The problem is that everyone who encounters the La-7 panics and only thinks to escape rather than fight it.
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The Spit XIV did surprisingly well against it though, Urchin. That outcome did surprise me. I also expected the Tempest to do better.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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You have to compare with equal pilot skill. Expert pilots La-7 wins. Average pilots La-7 wins. Green pilots La7 wins. Expert pilot vs. average pilot in La-7, La-7 stands a good chance of winning. Expert pilot against green pilot in La-7, La-7 stands a good chance of surviving by running.
The La-7 was designed to be the ultimate dogfighter so that less skilled/trained Soviet pilots could take on the LW. It is no surprise that it does the same thing in AH.
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Karnak, "better, best" is too subjective a notion for us to ever agree on. It depends on the circumstances of the given fight.
Speaking from my own experience though I find NIKIs, 109s, Yaks, and Tiffies to be difficult opponents when I am in an LA-7.
NIKIs can out turn me, out stall me, and have a hell of a wallup with those cannons.
109s almost always take the fight vertical and they climb like a fricken rocket so I become the dope on the rope.
Yaks just seem to be much better. They can outturn, out stall, and definately out dive me. They also seem to hold E for ever.
Tiffies just dive away and go until I give up and turn back though I know if they have fuel they will be coming in for another round of BNZ after they get back up to alt.
I think the key difference between myself and some other LA-7 pilots is that I fly the LA-7 more like a spit than a 51/190. By that I mean that I keep in the fight and generally don't extend indefinately and I don't ever do BNZ.
Slap, I was wondering if anyone would agree with me :)
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Actually, I rarely kill La-7s in LW planes. If I drag one away from their horde, they just run if they lose the advantage. If I meet one who has any idea at all how to fight, I die.
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I don't know what to tell ya ...
Last tour I died 191 times of those deaths only 7 were to La-7s while I killed 26 of them. Not one of those deaths to the La-7 were due to a head-on fight ... all were picks when engaged with other planes.
Seeing that I flew the Spit V and the Seafire mostly last tour, I would be safe in saying that most of the La-7 deaths were not because I chased them down, but rather beat them in a straight up fight. That is almost a 4 to 1 K/D against the La-7. I just don't see the big deal.
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ever since i started playing this game, i was trained in an la7 and thats what i stuck with. im not the best stick but i dont do half bad either. here are my opinions
-la7 doesnt like speeds over 450 and the nose tends to rise in a dive, in AH1 nose didnt rise at 450+, you could speed it till it compressed. very hard to dive at an angle in it now
-preformance over 11k has a steady drop off with exception of speed
-shooting at anything over 400 is a waist of bullets due to balistic properties, hispanos are better
-nasty snaproll at stall speeds
good points
-if your within a good fireing rage, its like a lightsabre
-turns very well at high speeds
-builds up speed quickly but not the best at it
-dive from 10k hit or miss your right back at 10k
-la7 is a very small target to hit and is easy to avoid bullets coming from about any range while maintaining speed.
-good visability
-3 20mm cannons, devastating at close quarters, not so good at a longer range.
if you not high than ya better be fast. fast meaning over 400 not under. once its slow, its just like anyother plane thats slow and on the deck. easy prey. and i think its easy to sucker an la7 into going to the deck and turning without having to do much turning myself. when i fly la7 i look for other la7s to kill.
i have also noticed that flying a DORA, i live alot longer and die less. its superior to the la7 in every way except turning. it can build E faster, it can grab sky alot faster and i think it holds E better cause its bigger.
wanna per something perk the 190-D9 cause IMO la7s tend to be easy targets. UNperk the TA152 it doesnt deserve it.
the la7 is a favorite among people who know how to fly it and to those who are new to the game. it give the newbs a slight edge, just enough to keep it fun for em.
I was forced into a dora cause of ENY. fact is i dont see half as many la7s flying around after ENY.
what is the big deal about an la7? i dont get it
did i miss anything?
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I meet one who has any idea at all how to fight, I die.
You have a better chance of winning PowerBall than you do at the above scenario, plus your holding back.
I just fought you recently while I was in a Spit V and unless I am really going bonkers, you would have sliced me to ribbons in a short amount of time had I been in an La-7. I had all I could do to keep you at bay in a Spit V.
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Does anyone have stats on the number of la7 threads started on the BB? Seems to me a thread with this much usage should surely be perked. Its a true monster and I have yet to see anyone aside from HT employees that can kill one.
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Originally posted by icemaw
Does anyone have stats on the number of la7 threads started on the BB? Seems to me a thread with this much usage should surely be perked. Its a true monster and I have yet to see anyone aside from HT employees that can kill one.
438 threads, 7,392 posts. all done by the same 5 whiners.
:D
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Keep flying the Laggs and I'll keep flying my Fw 190A5 and perk farm every single Bishknit I see. Just don't whine when Glassiod buys himself a couple of Torquemadas with quad Mk108s thanks to you.
Anyways carry on. :aok
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Originally posted by SlapShot
The problem is that everyone who encounters the La-7 panics and only thinks to escape rather than fight it.
You are kidding, right?
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Why is it that every one brags about how easy it is to kill a 'lala' and everyone asks for it to be perked?
lol :aok
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Why is it that every one brags about how easy it is to kill a 'lala' and everyone asks for it to be perked?
Simple, dedalos.
Claiming the La-7 isn't that of a big deal is the only form of solace one can expect when facing this plane. The bare truth is in what Urchin said;
Actually, I rarely kill La-7s in LW planes. If I drag one away from their horde, they just run if they lose the advantage. If I meet one who has any idea at all how to fight, I die.
People who claim the La-7 isn't much of a big deal, constantly drags in the human factor into an objective performance analysis. But if we reverse that logic, it should mean, "the only way to win against a La-7 is by having a truly superior advantage in pilot skills" <- this is a really big thing in the MA, considering "average" or "unimpressive" pilots like me take up more than 80% of the population.
Given the circumstances are right one can kill a Me262 in a A6M. So, should these special circumstances with special conditions(ie, "pilot factor") mean anything?
I mean, nobody takes the "pilot factor" into consideration when they talk about other perked planes. F4U-4, Spit14, Tempest, Ta152 etc etc.. will these planes be overwhelmingly "problematic" to be considered "uber" if they are unperked?
Ofcourse not. People who laugh at the La-7 will laugh at those planes too, if they become free planes. They'll brag and boast about how easy it is to kill these planes in a 1:1 fight in their slower planes.
But really, what kind of a stupid would want to engage a Spitfire or a slower mid-war plane(that usually maneuvers better) in an all-out 1:1 battle?
If you look at it closely, you can see that "I have no problems with it" comments most usually means "I have no problems with a stupid pilot who doesn't know how to handle this plane".
So, what happens if an average/decent pilot who knows better than to stick around in a tough fight against a better pilot in a slower, but better maneuvering plane takes the La-7?
Logically, they "extend", "run", "bore and zoom" and etc etc.. Ofcourse, no amount of superior skill can catch a La-7 doing that stuff in a slow mid-war plane.
So, they choose to ridicule it as "cowardice".
So the overall score is something like this;
* In some cases they find a stupid La pilot and shoot him down, they brag about it.
* In most cases they find an average La pilot who they cannot shoot down because of its pure performance, they decide to ignore and belittle it.
Ofcourse, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that the second case is which proves how formiddable this plane really is, not the former.
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I always attack the Lala's first. They are the most dangerous opponents, and if I'm to have a chance they must be engaged while I still have an advantage of alt or E.
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I've been flying the La-7 almost exclusively for a couple of tours. I'm a hopeless addict. For me, once I got over the social stigma, it's been loads of fun.
When I'm in an La-7, the ONLY thing I fear in the AH skies is an approaching enemy La-7 which I've judged to be either having less fuel onboard my mine or is being flown by a superior pilot that's known to be in the area.
Don't care if they perk it, but I think it should be.
Gorkle.
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Originally posted by GScholz
I always attack the Lala's first. They are the most dangerous opponents, and if I'm to have a chance they must be engaged while I still have an advantage of alt or E.
That's what I do as well, kill La7's first while my E state is high. In a furball situation it's not safe to try to disengage to rtb for gas or ammo with La7s about as they relish the prospect of running you down with no gas or ammo.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Shane
438 threads, 7,392 posts. all done by the same 5 whiners.
:D
I was wondering what the out come would be if all those so vociferously agin the La7 were to fly it for a tour in an attempt to "rig" the usage numbers.......... it occurred to me that in actuality they were insufficient in numbers to effect them by any noticable degree.
I understand that flown "cautiously" it means that pilots can quite easily play safe.............
I understand that this can be annoying to our "experten" who believe every pilot of lower skill is their right full prey..............
I believe that the 3 cannon version is late war enough to be considered for perkage..............
But what the stats and my arena experience convince me off, is that the La7 is not in any way unbalancing the game play any more than several other ac.
Indeed if it were to be removed the arena (IMO) would focus on 3 ac instead of 4. Hopefully with the advent of the Ki84 the 4 will become 5.
Back to perking the 3 cannon version. There are plenty of arguments for this that would placate both camps.........
1) Precedence. The Chog. Just because the Russians did not change the name of the La7 when the 3 x B20 were added makes it no less a different ac for the addition than the Chog is from the Hog it is derived from.
2)Game play. If you try it out you will find that the 2 cannon effective ness in snap shot seems far less than the 33% reduction in fire power would suggest. BnZ and high speed angles kills would be significantly reduced if players were to consider the 2 Shvak option as the only choice. There is a much greater need to "saddle up" with the 2 cannon version. I would expect those wanting to collect easy (no brain) kills to move to their other favoured ride the N1K2(or the Ki84 when it emerges).
3)Choice. An la7 is still available in non perked format for those who wish to enjoy it.
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I really enjoy fighting La-7s over P-51s, 190s, Typhoons, or other speedy adversaries. They allow for a great degree of aggressiveness without fear, so La-7 pilots tend to fly more aggressively in general. Win or lose, I much prefer that to dodging yawn-inducing BnZ for 15 minutes.
That's a good thing in my book. I'm glad it's around and unperked.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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The LA 7 ...
Perk Smirk , "leave it alone Snivelers " ......
All the Fighters have good and bad points , I like flying the P 40 E sometimes , but I also realise that if I run up against a Hellcat ( for example ) and chose to turn fight it , and get killed , that it was my choice to fly the P 40 and not game's, or the Hellcat's or HTC Crew's fault that I got killed , but mine alone !
The LA 7 has no drop Tank,
No Rockets,
Very short flying time , small clip , and is a Slug above 18 K .... but , I think it is a fun plane to fly and fight in , so I use it , and would hate to see it ( or any of others like the NIKI ) screwed with for any reason .
I look foward to the KI 84, and other faster later rides in AH 2,
like the later P 51's, P 47's and the La 9 ....... F8F Hellcat .
The more the better, and each modeled historicaly correct , not a bunch of fancy skined, de-fused, crippled facsimley's with lamed- up, speed, performance, and guns based on wines . During the Beta testing og AH 2, I chose to fly the LA 7 alot, and I was reminded again and found out,
"Real Quick " that it is not the LA 7 that is the answer to winning a
DogFight but the pilot flying it , "Furious ( cpid ) handed me my butt on a plate day in and day out, in head's-up one on one Dogfights" with us both flying the LA 7's .......
I have played "other online games " where the concept of a rolling plane set was in operation , all the planes were balanced or matched as best as they could . Gameplay was Stagnenet ( and still is ) and as dull as watching grass grow .
Regards to all .....
just my 2 cents ....and not to be read as a Sermon in any way, shape of form .
CHECKERS
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I really enjoy fighting La-7s over P-51s, 190s, Typhoons, or other speedy adversaries. They allow for a great degree of aggressiveness without fear, so La-7 pilots tend to fly more aggressively in general. Win or lose, I much prefer that to dodging yawn-inducing BnZ for 15 minutes.
That's a good thing in my book. I'm glad it's around and unperked.
-- Todd/Leviathn
yep
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Plain right DMF it's more fun to fight a LA7 that stay in than a bore and zoom plane.
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Plain right DMF it's more fun to fight a LA7 that stay in than a bore and zoom plane.
It's also more easier to kill them, than those who actually try to leave the battlefield alive.
Now, imagine one day all the bozos and noobs suddenly realized that their plane had the ability to disengage at will and whim. I'll be holding the stopwatch and count the seconds until people started whining. ;)
Face it guys. It's the pilot you guys have 'no problems' with. The plane itself, provided a decent pilot is in it, we all have a big problem with. :)
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Originally posted by Kweassa Now, imagine one day all the bozos and noobs suddenly realized that their plane had the ability to disengage at will and whim. I'll be holding the stopwatch and count the seconds until people started whining. ;)
[/b]
You wouldn't hear me whining. I would simply find them less interesting to fight and more difficult to kill. I don't think they would become more deadly however.
Face it guys. It's the pilot you guys have 'no problems' with. The plane itself, provided a decent pilot is in it, we all have a big problem with. :)
That's only partially true. You're enforcing the fallacy that the La-7 outperforms all other planes in all areas. We know that this is simply not true. I think it has the best balance of killing ability and survivability in the MA, but other planes may play to their strengths to at least neutralize it. I've fought plenty of excellent pilots in La-7s (Shane, Grunherz, BigMax, etc) and done alright. It doesn't always come down to pilot skill when facing an La-7. Think of it more as a game of rock-paper-scissors.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Kweassa
It's also more easier to kill them, than those who actually try to leave the battlefield alive.
Now, imagine one day all the bozos and noobs suddenly realized that their plane had the ability to disengage at will and whim. I'll be holding the stopwatch and count the seconds until people started whining. ;)
The plane itself, provided a decent pilot is in it, we all have a big problem with. :)
Bozos and noobs cant disengage at will and whim in any plane or else the arena would be full of 262's no matter what the perk cost..........
We all give up options as we commit our selves or increase the degree of aggresion they that keep options open, fly cautiously or "timidly" do so in any ac and it will return those options to varying degrees................
I am not sure of the context of "we all have a big problem with"
I have no problem "big or little" with the La7 and I would warrant that the majority of actual players do not either..............
I know which plane types are used to HO me most and none of them are the La7...............
I know which plane types are used to play BnZ agin me (from a safe alt adavantage) most and none of them are La7's
I know which planes I fear most in a turn fight and none of them are the La7
I know which plane type stands the best chance of disengaging.......it is the La7
Yet this is not any problem.
In the first 3 options "I lose" in the last I merely do not get the kill.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Now, imagine one day all the bozos and noobs suddenly realized that their plane had the ability to disengage at will and whim. I'll be holding the stopwatch and count the seconds until people started whining.
like fw190d-9's, ponys, 109g10's even la5's and yak9u's don't have the same ability to pretty much disengage at will? even tiffys can get going fairly fast.
oh you mean they can't disengage at will from an la-7? sure they can if they time it right, the la-7 is gonna take time to run them down, time enough to scream for help, make it to friendly ack, or even drag far enough away to be able to take the la-7 on alone.
any of the above listed planes can take on an la-7 alone and have an even chance of winning the engagement. more than even if the la-7 pilot is only "average" and the other is a better pilot. at worst the la-7 will end up running.
i've chased enough planes to know that the la-7 isn't going to instantly catch up.
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Wipe the potato peeling Tears. Looking at my stats who cares about the LA7. It's not that uber. Out of 188 deaths I only died at the hands of an LA7 10 times. I only killed 17 so wow in 40 hours I ran into 27 LA7s Woe is me lolh. Considering in the same amount of time I ran into 48 51s, 34 38s, 42 spit IXs, and 38 NIKIs I think the LA7 is a non issue
I really enjoy fighting La-7s over P-51s, 190s, Typhoons, or other speedy adversaries. They allow for a great degree of aggressiveness without fear, so La-7 pilots tend to fly more aggressively in general. Win or lose, I much prefer that to dodging yawn-inducing BnZ for 15 minutes.
That's a good thing in my book. I'm glad it's around and unperked.
Ahmen Brother, considering just about all the 51s I was killed by were cherry picking runers I couldn't agree more.
Killed By
Spitfire Mk IX 20
P-51D 16
Spitfire V 12
N1K2 11
Panzer IV H 11
La-7 10
P-38L 10
Typhoon IB 8
Fw 190D-9 8
Kills In - Kills Of
P-51D 44 32
N1K2 1 27
P-38L 0 24
Spitfire Mk IX 0 22
Spitfire V 188 21
SeaFire 0 19
La-7 0 17
F6F-5 0 16
F4U-1D 17 16
Yak-9U 0 12
Typhoon IB 0 11
P-47-D30 1 11
B-26B 0 10
Fw 190A-8 0 10
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Originally posted by Shane
more than even if the la-7 pilot is only "average" and the other is a better pilot. at worst the la-7 will end up running.
I have taken to flying the 109g10 alot recently, and i LOVE fighting la7's. I like the fact that I can turn with them, (have to really work the 109, but I do) climb with them, and am petty much as fast as them.
To quote a guy in the MA tonight when an LA7 showed up with alt(me in g-10)...
"Give the lala to Lute. He chews them up." and indeed most of the time I do.
Looking at last months stats, la7's amounted to 7% of my deaths, a percentage I do not find terribly high. For argument sake though I was shot down by la7's more than any other plane. Ship guns killed me 11% of the time, should we perk those?
I am not a Dora pilot like Urchin (great fights the other night btw, let's duel again soon) and favor the 109 over the FW's. When I am in a dora, I find the la7's can pretty much smack me around in an aggressive fight. I'll attribute that to the fact I so rarely fly FW's, and am not very familiar with their nuances. In a G10 I have no real fear, and will turn w/ 'em at will, and in general win.
Dunno. Leave 'em be. They are no great threat, and as was prev. posted, most lala pilots will fly aggressive, giving me the chance to kill them quick, vs. most 109/190/P51 pilots are rather timid, and are much more prone to run/avoid a fight.
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Originally posted by Tilt
I was wondering what the out come would be if all those so vociferously agin the La7 were to fly it for a tour in an attempt to "rig" the usage numbers..........
Don't tempt me!
Maybe my decision to never fly the lala has been downright idiotic.
Also, I all but never fly the spit9, niki and P51D.
I've always thought that there has been too many of the abovementioned planes flying in the MA. That spells "boring" to me, I like seeing new faces. Everytime I see a P40 I automatically nurture respect for that pilot, why didn't he just resort to the planes that obviously are easier to kill and live in? So I think he's a good guy to give something rare to the MA.
People just don't value the fun in succeeding in crappy planes, maybe because they've never tasted such fun. What have you achieved by killing 5 guys in a lala/spit9/p51d/niki? Not much. What have you achieved by killing 3 guys in a Hurri1? Do you catch my drift? It seems most people don't see the value in an arena full of different planes.
Back to Tilt's idea...
I have to give this some thought, should I fly the lala to contribute to it's fall?
I probably can't bring myself to do it, I'm too fond of the "crappy" planes... seriously!
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Originally posted by GScholz
I always attack the Lala's first. They are the most dangerous opponents, and if I'm to have a chance they must be engaged while I still have an advantage of alt or E.
They are obviously more dangerous to someone who flys a plane that will be both outturned and outrun by the LA-7 , and their are quite a few that fall into this category.
Most of the people that don't fear the lala probably fly a plane than can at least outturn it. eg Hellcat , so I am in that category. A well flown lala will know how to give me grief , but fortunately very few are well flown
I do feel for guys like yourself that come up against a lala in say a 109 or 190 A and have very limited options against it - your perspective is clearly different than mine.
I wouldn't like to see it perked tho - I think, they are No 3 on my top 5 planes killed career stats, keep em comin ;)
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I found that I could easily outturn an F6F in the Lala, even at stall speeds with flaps out.
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Originally posted by Redd
They are obviously more dangerous to someone who flys a plane that will be both outturned and outrun by the LA-7 , and their are quite a few that fall into this category.
I am in this category. The Mossie can neither turn with and La-7 or run from one. If I meet one I either kill it very, very rapidly or I die. I always go for the La-7 first. This is one of the big reasons I plan on switching from the Mossie to the Ki-84.
Those who are posting their satats saying "Look at me! I only got killed by an La-7 seven times last Tour!" are ignoring the La-7's frequent role as not the killer, but the plane than sets up the kill for the Spitfire or N1K2. Once you have to turn to survive the La-7 then the Spits and N1Ks get you.
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Originally posted by jodgi
Back to Tilt's idea...
Please dont credit me with this idea:)
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Most planes faster than the Spit 9 are in the same category Karnak.
In fact... lemme run down the list.
Every 109/190, out turned by La7/ outrun by La7. Except the E-4, that might be able to out-turn it. Haven't tried it in AH2.
C202/205.. definately outran, probably out turned.
F4U- Outrun, turning is about the same but I'd give the low speed edge to the F4U (except once it gets slow the La7 levels out for 5 seconds, gets back to 300 mph, and E-fights)
F6F- see above.
P-47.. not even close. Easily out turned and outrun.
P-51. Outrun, see F4U for "out turned".
Ta-152.. see P-47
Typh- outrun, out-turned.
Temp- outturned, itsy teeny bit faster.
Spit 14 - out run, but it does out turn the La7 (barely).
So, if you fly something not on that list, you probably don't have a problem with the La-7. If you do, you understand that the La-7 pretty much renders your plane impotent.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Those who are posting their satats saying "Look at me! I only got killed by an La-7 seven times last Tour!" are ignoring the La-7's frequent role as not the killer, but the plane than sets up the kill for the Spitfire or N1K2.
And this justifies perking it on what grounds?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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I think it outta be perked base on pure performance, personally.
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Those who are posting their satats saying "Look at me! I only got killed by an La-7 seven times last Tour!" are ignoring the La-7's frequent role as not the killer, but the plane than sets up the kill for the Spitfire or N1K2.
Uhh that would be me not "those". If you are going to try and insult me the least you could do is have the balls to use my name.
Please.... where did you pull that out of, uh never mind I know.
I knew after reading my initial post that some one would incorrectly take it as "Look at my stats" as "Look at Me". Give it a rest. My stats aren't that great to even think I was bragging. I was just making the point that the LA7 is less prevalent than the others in the MA.
Once you have to turn to survive the La-7 then the Spits and N1Ks get you.
This is stupid if I am out numbered more than 3 v 1 it doesn't matter what plane it is. If it's an LA7 it doesn't make it any more difficult to die or survive.
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I think someone hit the nail on the head when they said, "If the La7 pilot is good I am usually dead, fortunately not many are very good". In alot of ways the La7 is a victim of its own success and those like Shane who popularize it via their individual success in it.
I am one of those who typically kills 30 La7s to one death by La7s a camp. Don't confuse this with the La7 not being 'uber' , it's simply a by-product of the fact that most people who fly the La7 couldn't find their arse with both hands. I actually have more trouble with planes like the Fw190-A5 because typically the person flying that plane is a good stick who knows how to exploit the planes strengths to their maximum advantage. If everyone who flew the La7 were 'good sticks' who knew how to exploit the plane's strengths to their maximum advantage I think everyone in this thread would suddenly, like Urchin, have a 'problem' with the La7.
Any plane is formidable if flown to it's maximum potential, that is not debateable. The problem with the La7 is it occupies and dominates a niche where the vast majority of fights occur. Because of its overwhelming strengths, those few people who do fly it to maximum advantage are nearly unbeatable. Those who only have the skill and the know-how to fully exploit a couple of it's dominant traits are a serious PITA, and can give a generally superior pilot serious problems. Even a weak pilot who only takes advantage of one of it's strengths (ie: Runs and Ho's repeatedly) is incredibly annoying.
All of this can be said for most planes to some extent, but because of the plurality and degree of the La7s strengths and the under 12k niche it occupies and dominates in these areas it is by far the most diverse and threatening aircraft to the most amount of people.
Zazen
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mars01,
I thought I'd seen more than one person in this thread post their stats vs the La-7.
I don't fly much anymore. Last Tour I had 72 kills and 40 deaths. I went 3 to 3 against the La-7.
Zazen,
I think you'll find that your ratio is highly dependant on what you fly.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Zazen,
I think you'll find that your ratio is highly dependant on what you fly.
Possibly, I really only fly 4 planes though: F6F, P51D, Typhoon, and P47D-40. All of these planes are out-run, out-accelerated and out-climbed by the La7, 3 of them are outgunned by the La7 and at least 2 of them can be out-turned by the La7 (not the F6F or P51D in my personal experience).
Zazen
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Zazen, I agree fully. Very well put.
mars01, don't credit yourself as the only one who has ever not bragged by bragging....... crap! There goes another one of my precious few braincells.
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Kudos to Aces High for bringing us the Russian and Italian fighters that many flight sims used to ignore.
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Zazen,
All four of those aircraft are competitive with the La-7 in one way or another. If you are a decent stick you'll be able to overcome the La-7 simply by out flying your typical opponent.
If you liked the Bf110G-2, Bf109G-6, Mosquito Mk VI or Ki-61-I-Tei on the other hand the La-7 will pretty much dominate you unless you are significantly better. The La-7 doesn't out turn those fighters by only a small margin and it has a massive advantage in speed and acceleration.
I'm hoping the Ki-84 will do the same as the P-51D against the La-7, but with better acceleration.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Every 109/190, out turned by La7/ outrun by La7. Except the E-4, that might be able to out-turn it. Haven't tried it in AH2.
P-47.. not even close. Easily out turned and outrun.
P-51. Outrun, see F4U for "out turned".
So, if you fly something not on that list, you probably don't have a problem with the La-7. If you do, you understand that the La-7 pretty much renders your plane impotent.
Exactly why I'm in the camp that the La-7 should cost its pilots some perks. There are a lot of La-7's out there; can't outrun them, can't outturn them. And, I don't intend to become an La-7 driver just so I can have a level playing field.
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Originally posted by GScholz
I always attack the Lala's first...
Not me. I go for the p-40's first, because you know that ****ers just showing off.
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mars01, don't credit yourself as the only one who has ever not bragged by bragging....... crap! There goes another one of my precious few braincells.
LOL, cmon man my stats are average at best, nothing to brag about. IMO I didn't even go 500 against the LA7.
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Oh so that's why I always get ganged when in a P40...
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Saw a guy TnB-ing an SBD the other day. Showoff. :D
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Originally posted by Karnak
And the La-7 is better than the P-51D up to at least 15k and maybe 20k.
Whadda ya kiddin'?
At 15k, and especially at 20k, the P-51D climbs about the same (much better at 20K), is considerably faster and handles better as well.
Then we have the P-51B, and that Mustang absolutely owns the La-7 up at 15k....
Speed @ 15k
La-7: 388 mph
P-51D: 412 mph
P-51B: 421 mph
Yak-9U: 410 mph
Climb @ 15k
La-7: 2,850 fpm
P-51D: 2,800 fpm
P-51B: 3,250 fpm
Yak-9U: 2,975 fpm
Little improvement is gained by the La-7 if it is down to 50% fuel. However, both Mustangs DO improve if their fuel weight is less than 50%. At 15k, the P-51B is just about the best non-perked fighter in the game in terms of overall performance. In fact, it's neck and neck with the SpitXIV and F4U-4 at 15k and is easier to fly at the limits than either of those two. Yep, the P-51B is grossly underated...
Keep the Russian crotch-rocket down in the weeds where it belongs. Take it up high and it's very average. If you want to fly and fight at 15-20k in a Russian fighter, take the Yak-9U, it performs considerably better than the La-7 up there, but still falls short of the P-51B.
My regards,
Widewing
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Widewing,
I was being overly generous to the La-7 to counter all the "The La-7 sucks at altitudes over 10,000ft." statements that are so prevalent. The La-7 doesn't dominate at higher altitudes like it does down low, but it certainly doesn't suck either.
Maybe I am biased because I like mid war aircraft, but hearing people make that claim makes me think of them as spoiled in their expectations.
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I used to fly it alot as a noob but have not been in it for a while. Tried it again last night. :eek: If you know what you are doing, there is no way you get shot down. It got to the point where I was teasing an F4F trying to get pinged. Nothing he could do and I am just average. Imagine if anyone good gets in it, lol. (I did know the plane though since I used to fly it a lot. I am sure that helped)
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Originally posted by Karnak
Widewing,
I was being overly generous to the La-7 to counter all the "The La-7 sucks at altitudes over 10,000ft." statements that are so prevalent. The La-7 doesn't dominate at higher altitudes like it does down low, but it certainly doesn't suck either.
Maybe I am biased because I like mid war aircraft, but hearing people make that claim makes me think of them as spoiled in their expectations.
I understand. Down in the weeds the La-7 is the best fighter in the game, period. I also agree that the 3 gun version should be perked along the lines of the C-Hog, leaving the 2 gun model as is. After all, only a handful of the 3 gun La-7s saw service before the end of the war.
Now, as to fighting in and against the La-7, it boils down to tactics and creating opportunities.
Since December of last year, my K/D against the La-7 is 21/1. Flying the La-7, my K/D is 36/1. That's rediculous. Believe me, it's the plane far more than the pilot.
What this tells me is that the La-7 is easy to kill in and easy to survive in. It is also easy to kill the La-7 if the pilot flies too aggressively. In other words, he has more balls than brains and consequently will be carrying the former home in a Zip-Lock bag, while the latter is befuddled at his circumstances.
Keep it fast, master the guns, fly with good SA and the La-7 is nearly invincible. Fly it dumb, and it'll die just like any other aircraft. Fortunately, the fact remains that most of the guys flying the La-7, fly it dumb.
I certainly understand Urchin's point though. A decent stick flying the La-7 is as lethal as the very best stick in almost anything else.
Urchin should remember a one on one we had some months ago. It was southwest of A28 on the NDIlses map. I was up in an La-7 and had just shot down several F4Us. Down to about 20 rounds of ammo, I was heading back to rearm for the next wave. I spotted an incoming Ta 152 slightly above me (I guess I was at 8k or so). I don't remember the details, but I eventually got on the 152's tail. The 152 tried every trick in the book to shake off the pesky LaLa, but I stayed there waiting for a decent shot. The 152 was working hard to give me lousy angles and as my gas dwindled down, I took a poor angle shot and either missed or did no noteworthy damage. Having emptied my guns, I soon broke off and headed back. I gave a salute to the 152 driver and Urchin replied in kind. Now, I have flown against Urchin in the DA and he's better than I am, especially on the merge where he waxed me time and again. If I had been flying almost any other late-war plane against his 152, I would probably have lost that fight. So, I have no doubt that the La-7 makes any pilot more dangerous, significantly so in some matchups.
The key to this is if the pilot knows how to maximize the La-7's advantages and avoid getting low and slow in a crowd. If he knows how to utilize the La-7 to its potential, he'll be a son-of-buck to deal with. If he doesn't...he's usually just another dead guy. Nonetheless, fighting below 10,000 ft, a good pilot flying the La-7 is THE MOST DANGEROUS COMBINATION IN THE GAME
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
I understand. Down in the weeds the La-7 is the best fighter in the game, period. I also agree that the 3 gun version should be perked along the lines of the C-Hog, leaving the 2 gun model as is. After all, only a handful of the 3 gun La-7s saw service before the end of the war.
Now, as to fighting in and against the La-7, it boils down to tactics and creating opportunities.
Since December of last year, my K/D against the La-7 is 21/1. Flying the La-7, my K/D is 36/1. That's rediculous. Believe me, it's the plane far more than the pilot.
What this tells me is that the La-7 is easy to kill in and easy to survive in. It is also easy to kill the La-7 if the pilot flies too aggressively. In other words, he has more balls than brains and consequently will be carrying the former home in a Zip-Lock bag, while the latter is befuddled at his circumstances.
Keep it fast, master the guns, fly with good SA and the La-7 is nearly invincible. Fly it dumb, and it'll die just like any other aircraft. Fortunately, the fact remains that most of the guys flying the La-7, fly it dumb.
I certainly understand Urchin's point though. A decent stick flying the La-7 is as lethal as the very best stick in almost anything else.
Urchin should remember a one on one we had some months ago. It was southwest of A28 on the NDIlses map. I was up in an La-7 and had just shot down several F4Us. Down to about 20 rounds of ammo, I was heading back to rearm for the next wave. I spotted an incoming Ta 152 slightly above me (I guess I was at 8k or so). I don't remember the details, but I eventually got on the 152's tail. The 152 tried every trick in the book to shake off the pesky LaLa, but I stayed there waiting for a decent shot. The 152 was working hard to give me lousy angles and as my gas dwindled down, I took a poor angle shot and either missed or did no noteworthy damage. Having emptied my guns, I soon broke off and headed back. I gave a salute to the 152 driver and Urchin replied in kind. Now, I have flown against Urchin in the DA and he's better than I am, especially on the merge where he waxed me time and again. If I had been flying almost any other late-war plane against his 152, I would probably have lost that fight. So, I have no doubt that the La-7 makes any pilot more dangerous, significantly so in some matchups.
The key to this is if the pilot knows how to maximize the La-7's advantages and avoid getting low and slow in a crowd. If he knows how to utilize the La-7 to its potential, he'll be a son-of-buck to deal with. If he doesn't...he's usually just another dead guy. Nonetheless, fighting below 10,000 ft, a good pilot flying the La-7 is THE MOST DANGEROUS COMBINATION IN THE GAME
My regards,
Widewing
I just posted the exact same thing Widewing about ten posts up, brilliant minds think....Oh , nevermind. ;)
Zazen
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Also remember that one of the La-7's most endearing features is straight-line acceleration. The P51's need a bit of downhill room to get their wind up - the LA can gain a ton of speed just going level. And that burst of level speed can make up for a lot of dumb, dumb flying.
But the stats you provide on the P-51B surprised me. I may need to give it a try.
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And this justifies perking it on what grounds?
See the NPA concept. Links in my sig.
It doesn't justify the perking of only the La-7. However, it does justify the perking of the entire section of fighters that are in the 'La-7 class'.
The MA, especially since the changes in gunnery, is now undeniably shifted towards a virtual environment resembling late '44~ '45. It's a time where most of the basic aircraft tactics and performance levels have been already established, with multi-purpose fighters.
The planes of this era is very powerful in performance, is usually able to carry out multiple tasks, and also generally very high in survivability.
It renders all the other planes in the planeset between 1940~43 utterly useless, or at least vastly incompetent. Not to mention takes away the role of most jabos and bombers in the game, and shifts the game into a sterile, bland environment where only a handful of superplanes are used again and again.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
The MA, especially since the changes in gunnery, is now undeniably shifted towards a virtual environment resembling late '44~ '45. It's a time where most of the basic aircraft tactics and performance levels have been already established, with multi-purpose fighters.
The planes of this era is very powerful in performance, is usually able to carry out multiple tasks, and also generally very high in survivability.
It renders all the other planes in the planeset between 1940~43 utterly useless, or at least vastly incompetent. Not to mention takes away the role of most jabos and bombers in the game, and shifts the game into a sterile, bland environment where only a handful of superplanes are used again and again.
Have seen this shift toward late-war planes accelerate as well.
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Originally posted by GScholz
I found that I could easily outturn an F6F in the Lala, even at stall speeds with flaps out.
I think pilot skill must have factored into that Gsholtz.
if the LA-7 fights a pure TNB knife fight the F6-F can outurn it, down and dirty. If the lala is smart and uses it's acceleration and climb to e-fight the hellcat , the fight should be with the LA-7. Lala can of course disengage at will.
The difference in turning ability is not huge though they are quite close.
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I used to fly the la7 a LOT. Yeah I liked the fact that 9 out of 10 sorties it made me look better than I really am.
Vs the F6f about all I really had to do was stay fast. Duck the first 2 passes as the F6f trys to get around & get guns on. After that they'd blown so much E they were ussually easy meat.
But every now & then I'd run into a smart f6f driver like Math or Redd. They'd kill me 2 out of 3 before I could hardly blink.
As far as perking it, I'd have no problem seeing the 3 gun version perked at 6 - 10 perks like the C-hawg.
I prefer the 2 gun setup anyway.
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The La7 is a dweeb plane and anyone who says otherwise is a dweeb himself..
the only thing this aircraft is lacking is visability.. (many other aircraft suffer the same drawback though..)
Some people claim its legs are bad.. (range) well when you factor a climbout of 6-8k to have your aircraft near max speed this is a moot point.. This aircraft goes as fast as some aircraft with a 7-8k advantage which is silly.. exp... jug / p38 is slower at 13k then a la7 is at 8k.. thats freaking stupid..
granted this happened in real life and hey its a great plane.. but for HTC to use this dweebmobile to handicap pilots of lesser skill to be more in line with the experten i dont agree with.. I see lot of complaining about how no one fights in this game and this stupid aircraft is at the root of the problem..
Yeah the dora /stang can run.. but their effective alts to do such are limited. also their acceleration is no where near on par with this machine.. Hence when a mistake is made it is corrected thru accel and top speed in the la7 where the mustang has no such abilities and the dora cant turn very well.. the la7 can do both.. with roll rate matching both aircraft..
no other aircraft in the game has the strengths that this bird has in the combination it has.. a few have some of the pie but the la7 is the only aircraft to have near all of them..
so i say again .. the la7 is a dweeb plane, the new dweebfire.. (spits used to be huge but with new flight model speed and accel are key.. i dont consider them dweeby with rocket7's buzzing around..)
you would cry foul if you saw me flying that thing .. maybe a ostwind or bomber or collision kill once during a blue moon..
other than that I would put paypal money that i could easily rack 30 / 40 /or even 50 k/d in it.. trust me you dont want that.. the cheat accusations would be rampant but then again i consider flying this aircraft fulltime cheating in the first place..
DoctorYo
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Originally posted by Widewing
At 15k, the P-51B is just about the best non-perked fighter in the game in terms of overall performance.
I KNEW I must have learned something in the two years I play this game. It isn't my favourite fighter for nothing. But shhht, I'd like to keep it a secret.
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Perk The Pilot NOT The Ride.
Use K/D Ratio in the perk equasion , after all good sticks make the plane what it is.
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There has to be a 'best' non-perked plane in the game. Some think it's the La7, some don't. So what's the big deal? If you feel others have an advantage over you in it then fly it yourself, otherwise shuddup and die. Better yet learn how to kill it! ;)
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Originally posted by DoctorYO
The La7 is a dweeb plane and anyone who says otherwise is a dweeb himself..
the only thing this aircraft is lacking is visability.. (many other aircraft suffer the same drawback though..)
Some people claim its legs are bad.. (range) well when you factor a climbout of 6-8k to have your aircraft near max speed this is a moot point.. This aircraft goes as fast as some aircraft with a 7-8k advantage which is silly.. exp... jug / p38 is slower at 13k then a la7 is at 8k.. thats freaking stupid..
granted this happened in real life and hey its a great plane.. but for HTC to use this dweebmobile to handicap pilots of lesser skill to be more in line with the experten i dont agree with.. I see lot of complaining about how no one fights in this game and this stupid aircraft is at the root of the problem..
Yeah the dora /stang can run.. but their effective alts to do such are limited. also their acceleration is no where near on par with this machine.. Hence when a mistake is made it is corrected thru accel and top speed in the la7 where the mustang has no such abilities and the dora cant turn very well.. the la7 can do both.. with roll rate matching both aircraft..
no other aircraft in the game has the strengths that this bird has in the combination it has.. a few have some of the pie but the la7 is the only aircraft to have near all of them..
so i say again .. the la7 is a dweeb plane, the new dweebfire.. (spits used to be huge but with new flight model speed and accel are key.. i dont consider them dweeby with rocket7's buzzing around..)
you would cry foul if you saw me flying that thing .. maybe a ostwind or bomber or collision kill once during a blue moon..
other than that I would put paypal money that i could easily rack 30 / 40 /or even 50 k/d in it.. trust me you dont want that.. the cheat accusations would be rampant but then again i consider flying this aircraft fulltime cheating in the first place..
DoctorYo
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Bravo, DoctorYo. :)
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Originally posted by DipStick
If you feel others have an advantage over you in it then fly it yourself,
[/b]
That'd kind of be like everyone taking advantage of a cheat just because we could.
otherwise shuddup and die. Better yet learn how to kill it! ;)
When you're in a non-La-7 aircraft, turning and burning in a low-E state for the 4th or 5th minute of the fight, it's kind of tough to "learn how to kill (the La-7)" when they join the fight to finish you off. oOps...we can't extend and outrun the La-7 in order to setup a re-engagement, and my aircraft sure as HELL can't turn with it.
If your next suggestion is..."don't allow yourself to get stuck in a fight on the deck," I might as well quit Aces High because I wouldn't start 85% of my fights.
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This discussion always makes me wish for a rolling plane set.
People will always gravitate to the late war planes - for the obvious reasons. Perks can control that to some degree, but all that really does is shift the balance point on what's most uber and what's not. Instead of hordes of La-7's it'll be La-5's and Spit V's.
And basing it on perks really only takes these planes out of the hands of the newer players who need them the most.
Even if the RPS had only two modes (1944 like we have now, and 1942 w/no perked rides) that could help add to the depth of the game.
I know people hate RPS, but it would provide a better mix and force people out of flying just one "dweeb" ride.
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So, after the LA-7 gets perked, what's the next plane to whine about for 1-2 years before it get's perked?
As pointed out, the LA-7 has many strengths, especially at "furball" altitude. But it's not damn invincible! I kill plenty of them and get killed in them.
There are turn fighters that out turn it if you get it too slow.
If you're in the furball already, some dweeb in ANY plane can bounce you with his alt and speed.
As said, with a few exceptions, most people that fly the plane, don't fly it to it's strengths. That's what gets me killed in it.
My point is after the LA-7 gets perked, the N1K is next. I'm actually surprised the N1K gets less attention than the LA-7. I hear so many people talking about it's UFO qualities.
If we follow this out to it's logical conclusion, let's just go ahead and perk ALL of the late war planes. That's where we will be eventually...
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99% of the seals who whine about the LA-7 can barely even handle themselves in their plane of choice.
my challenge to these is to ask me to the DA and we'll fly *your* plane of choice. after this, i'd even be willing to let *you* fly the la-7 and i fly *your* ride. maybe you'll learn something.
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Dok a rolling plane set reduces choice. You think you see too many of the top tier fighters now, with a rolling plane set you'll see more of the same planes being flown then now.
WB is a perfect example.
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Originally posted by Shane
99% of the seals who whine about the LA-7 can barely even handle themselves in their plane of choice.
my challenge to these is to ask me to the DA and we'll fly *your* plane of choice. after this, i'd even be willing to let *you* fly the la-7 and i fly *your* ride. maybe you'll learn something.
Shane,
I'll take that offer...knowing that I'll have my a$s handed to me, but at least it'll be a learning experience. :D
tbolt@onpoi.net
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Originally posted by nopoop
Dok a rolling plane set reduces choice. You think you see too many of the top tier fighters now, with a rolling plane set you'll see more of the same planes being flown then now.
WB is a perfect example.
Depends on how you look at it. Right now there are a lot of choices that are simply not worthwhile because of the skew towards late war planes.
The idea heard recently that I liked best for creating a better mix of planes was to make the central "furball" area be early war planes only. You'd really need to chop out a few fields around that area so that it was a 2-sector flight to bring a late-war bird to that part of the map.
Kind of like a "Lost World" effect ... on a hidden plateau ancient dinosaurs still fly. No B17 dive-bombers, no La-7's, no Fw's, no Runstangs, no fully tracked GV's, no perks. Just Spit I's, Hurri I's, Zekes, Wildcats, P40's, Emils (the lone cannon bird), SBD's, maybe let the Sturmi in. Could be a lot of fun and new players would learn a hell of a lot. Base captures would require gaining skills because you can't just hose things down with 20mm and rockets.
Anyone bringing a late-war bird there would have a clear edge, but if that person got low and slow he'd have some definite issues.
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but for HTC to use this dweebmobile to handicap pilots of lesser skill to be more in line with the experten i dont agree with.. I see lot of complaining about how no one fights in this game and this stupid aircraft is at the root of the problem..
LOL, i think you will find the timid 25k pony pilots are the cause of this not LA7's or the Run90 pilots.
I fly the la7 to catch these planes when they dive to the deck to try and vulch then run...errr extend, i love imagining their faces.................awwww crap, hes catching me, now what?!!!!
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
. . . Kind of like a "Lost World" effect ... on a hidden plateau ancient dinosaurs still fly. No B17 dive-bombers, no La-7's, no Fw's, no Runstangs, no fully tracked GV's, no perks. Just Spit I's, Hurri I's, Zekes, Wildcats, P40's, Emils (the lone cannon bird), SBD's, . . .
What about the two cannons in the wings of the Zeke (Zero)? Is it my imagination, or does the Zero have two 20mm's, and 2 .30 cal. machine guns???
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Yeah ... the Zeke does ... but not the 250 rpg of ammo like the 190 has. And flak suppression would tend to be quite hazardous duty in the Zero.
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The 109E has 60 rpg of rather weak cannon ammunition, same as the A6M2.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Depends on how you look at it. Right now there are a lot of choices that are simply not worthwhile because of the skew towards late war planes.
The idea heard recently that I liked best for creating a better mix of planes was to make the central "furball" area be early war planes only. You'd really need to chop out a few fields around that area so that it was a 2-sector flight to bring a late-war bird to that part of the map.
Kind of like a "Lost World" effect ... on a hidden plateau ancient dinosaurs still fly. No B17 dive-bombers, no La-7's, no Fw's, no Runstangs, no fully tracked GV's, no perks. Just Spit I's, Hurri I's, Zekes, Wildcats, P40's, Emils (the lone cannon bird), SBD's, maybe let the Sturmi in. Could be a lot of fun and new players would learn a hell of a lot. Base captures would require gaining skills because you can't just hose things down with 20mm and rockets.
Anyone bringing a late-war bird there would have a clear edge, but if that person got low and slow he'd have some definite issues.
I never liked the RPS in WB, but would love to see a "Lost World" on a couple of the maps, now that would be fun - same principle as Tank Town I guess.
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What about the two cannons in the wings of the Zeke (Zero)? Is it my imagination, or does the Zero have two 20mm's, and 2 .30 cal. machine guns???
A6M2 has a pair of 7.7 mgs.
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Well, so far IMO there are only two things that can stop the la7... puffy ack and lack of fuel. It is a monster of the first order.
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Face it --- the MiG-3 is much better than the La series at altitudes of 15k+. *Subliminal Message Alert*
The La series is for low altitudes, and can be absolutely slaughtered by even the 109-F4 at higher altitudes.
It's funny how so many of you guys complain about these superb low-level fighters when you could just as easily avoid them all together. German pilots avoided the Yak-3 at low altitudes in their planes, and you should avoid the La series at low altitudes in BnZ planes.
"Runstangs" and "Run90's", hmm? If they weren't meant to get pilots out of trouble, they wouldn't have been made to go so fast. So, what, you're just supposed to let the enemy rape you by flying at a constantly low speed of about 280mph?
The British had the same whining problems with fighting the South Africans in the 1800's. The South Africans used Geurilla tactics, and were very successful against the British forces. The Brits complained because they "weren't letting us kill them", so to speak.
I don't see the "timid pilots" as the problem. You're the problem, as you seem unable to adapt your strategies accordingly.
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Spoken like a true sky accountant.
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Are you saying I'm the problem Fruda?
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fuel seems to be the only limitation the la7 has for a fighter.
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Originally posted by killnu
fuel seems to be the only limitation the la7 has for a fighter.
and the inability to accelerate past 450 or so in a shallow dive. i dont recall the la7 acting like this in AH1. other planes can out accelerate it on the deck also.
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My only problem with the La-7 is how dull it is to have every third plane in the air be the same, and most of them seem to build their tactics around trading HO shots.
Since the MA is mainly fought under 10,000 ft and close to a base, it really is the ideal environment for the La-7. You really can't fault people for using a plane that's perfectly suited to the MA. Even more so since .50 cal's are next to worthless for base attack compared to 20mm cannon. And since the MA revolves around base attacks, it's pretty hard to avoid the LA-7 - and you usually encounter it where it likes to fight.
I don't see a problem with a small perk fee for the typical HO dweeb rides like the La-7 and N1K. 2 perks means as long as you maintain a 2:1 k/d you never really will "pay" for your plane. But then the HO fiends will switch to Tiffies - which are easier to kill, but much more lethal HO.
Biggest real problem is that any change HT makes will result in nothing but whines. So we can't even really experiment with ideas. Which is a shame, I'd like to see how people deal with 3 or 4 days of "1942." Or maybe one night just clamp ENY at 10 across the board - just to see what happens.
Oh well ... basically its hopeless.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
My only problem with the La-7 is how dull it is to have every third plane in the air be the same, and most of them seem to build their tactics around trading HO shots.
I don't see a problem with a small perk fee for the typical HO dweeb rides like the La-7 and N1K. 2 perks means as long as you maintain a 2:1 k/d you never really will "pay" for your plane.
[/b]
Charging some perkies (more than 2 perks, I should hope) to fly the La-7 would take care of the over-population issue.
But then the HO fiends will switch to Tiffies - which are easier to kill, but much more lethal HO.
[/b]
At least the dweebs would be more inclined to mix it up in another bird for once. :lol
Oh well ... basically its hopeless.
I disagree. Nothing is hopeless. I don't think HT is worried about the whines so much. Afterall, he enacted this whole ENY thing, & the whining has been louder ever since. And, last I checked, ENY was STILL part of the game.
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Originally posted by dragoon
and the inability to accelerate past 450 or so in a shallow dive. i dont recall the la7 acting like this in AH1. other planes can out accelerate it on the deck also.
Umm, you sure? On paper, according to the data, the La7 is the best accelerating non-perk plane up to like 18k. In my personal experience this is true in AHI and AHII.
Zazen
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I'm all for perks for late-war planes.
But the La-7 is not the only 'overpopulated', or rather, 'overused' plane in the game.
If HTC should perk the La-7, then they should perk the entire section of late-war fighters to shift the MA back into 1943 environment. Otherwise, perking only the La-7 is not only unfair, but also something that will deeply aggravate the problem even more.
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Flew one sortie last night in the La7 ,it was fun (except when a hill jumped in my gunsight :)).
I'm the only one suffering of claustrophobia in this plane ?
Compared to the Typhoon I find the visibility pretty weak
Anyway it's fun to run after the runner and still be able to turn with the turner.
I think the La7 is fine as is and should stay unperked, I still prefer the Typhoon and 190.
Plus I don't see any difference in being killed by a LaLa7, a Pee51 a Hunstang in all cases I and no one else failed to handle the situation.
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Well if you were to take that approach (perk all '44 and later rides a little) across the board it could get interesting. Base attacks would be made with more "expendable" planes like La-5's, P47's, 190A-5's, Hurri II's where as the air superiority role would be taken on by the low-perk value planes (P51D, La-7, D-9). This could restore a better balance.
However, two additional steps would need to be taken in this scenario:
1) Perk the heavy bombers - B17 and Lanc, mainly - B26 to a lesser degree. Right now these planes are being used as dive bombers. If you take away the L33T Jabo rides, expect to see this "tactic" taken to the extreme. So strategic bombers need to become something you don't throw away with Kamikaze attacks.
2) New players need to be given a "starting balance" of like 50/25/25 perks - all current accounts should be credited with this amount as well. The reason being that you would otherwise exclude new players from air superiority and strategic bombing missions entirely - and that isn't good for business.
The perk values shouldn't be too high. Basically the value should be about the number of perks you expect a player to be able to earn on average with the ride before being shot down. Meaning if you say a La-7 is too uber, and expect a 3:1 kill ratio, then it's worth about 5 perks (which seems to be what a 3-kill mission in the La-7 gets you). P51's maybe worth 4 since it has no 20mm and will therefore likely get as many assists as kills. And so on. It can't be like it is now for the Me163 where you're more likely to lose perks if you launch against a B17 flight than gain.
In fact ... if you did this you could get rid of the ENY balancer completely. The perk adjustment based on odds would become more predominant if all '44+ rides were perked. (But the logic to determine just who is really at a disadvantage still needs to be reworked ... odds alone is not a true reflection.)
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Originally posted by Kweassa
I'm all for perks for late-war planes.
If HTC should perk the La-7, then they should perk the entire section of late-war fighters to shift the MA back into 1943 environment. Otherwise, perking only the La-7 is not only unfair, but also something that will deeply aggravate the problem even more.
I could live with that. I say we give it a try for a month. :)
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Very well thought-out, DoKGonZo.
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quote:
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Originally posted by DipStick
If you feel others have an advantage over you in it then fly it yourself,
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Originally posted by TBolt A-10
That'd kind of be like everyone taking advantage of a cheat just because we could.
It's in no way "cheating" to fly an La7. Get real.
When you're in a non-La-7 aircraft, turning and burning in a low-E state for the 4th or 5th minute of the fight, it's kind of tough to "learn how to kill (the La-7)" when they join the fight to finish you off.
This is a problem with numbers in the MA and mainly your SA. It has nothing to do with what plane comes in to finish you off.
oOps...we can't extend and outrun the La-7 in order to setup a re-engagement, and my aircraft sure as HELL can't turn with it.
If you have trouble turning with it try a different plane. I kill them all the time in my D-11 and it's not a "great" turner nor can it outrun it.
If your next suggestion is..."don't allow yourself to get stuck in a fight on the deck," I might as well quit Aces High because I wouldn't start 85% of my fights.
You said it, not me. I fight 90% of my fights under 8k, usually 3-5k, outnumbered in a jug. Sounds to me like you just need some DA time. I'm just average but look me, Shane, Jaxxo, Morph or others up ingame. We'll help all we can.
And I repeat: "There has to be a 'best' non-perked plane in the game.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Is it speed or accuracy that is effected by barrel length ?
Speed and accuracy are both affected by barrel length. The longer the barrel, the more accuracy and velocity.
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Originally posted by Shane
438 threads, 7,392 posts. all done by the same 5 whiners.
:D
AMEN Shane!
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You said it, not me. I fight 90% of my fights under 8k, usually 3-5k, outnumbered in a jug. Sounds to me like you just need some DA time. I'm just average but look me, Shane, Jaxxo, Morph or others up ingame. We'll help all we can.
And I repeat: "There has to be a 'best' non-perked plane in the game.
[/color]
I'll try to find you guys in the DA sometime. Can't think of a better way to break in my new stick. I finally have decent rudder control! :lol :)
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Hey Urchin, you really should try flying at 15k+ sometimes. It's a much different experience.
That's not to say that I fly that way every flight. I like flying the low-alt Wildcats, Hellcats, Yaks, and Il-2's. And I've evaded more than a few La-7's (I actually downed two La-7's in an Il-2 on different occasions, but being killed by 190's afterwards). It's not easy, but it's definately doable.
And hey, I'm not the guy with a pink La-7 with Richard Simmons painted on it in his avatar (I know that Eskimo did that skin, but you've got it in your avatar).
There's something called being a poor sport, and that seems to be exactly what you are.
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Originally posted by DipStick
quote:
...
You said it, not me. I fight 90% of my fights under 8k, usually 3-5k, outnumbered in a jug. Sounds to me like you just need some DA time. I'm just average but look me, Shane, Jaxxo, Morph or others up ingame. We'll help all we can.
And I repeat: "There has to be a 'best' non-perked plane in the game.
I think you mean "easist to get kills in" as opposed to "best." The P51 is probably the most overall capable MA plane, but it's easier to get kills in the La-7 given where fights take place.
I've seen you guys refer to the dueling arena a bunch. I had always assumed this was for the H2H junkies - which I never got into. But it sounds like you guys do something akin to "advanced training" in there too.
Back when I flew AW more hours than I slept, I could wade into 3-on-1's and kill 'em all. But years and years of rust have taken their toll - just can't furball like I could in the old daze. Maybe I'll look you guys up some time for a tune up.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Back when I flew AW more hours than I slept, I could wade into 3-on-1's and kill 'em all.
AW was a completely different animal (much easier). :) Welcome back.
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There seems to be an excessive ammount of crying about this plane. The funny thing is, I see Rooks, Bish, and Knights all flying it. So who are those that whine so vocaly? IMHO, they are the guys that have been around the longest, have found a high ENY plane that they or their squad sticks to, and they have become very proficient with. If they're such uberpilots, why all the ruckus? Is it because they can't stand the thought of a nOOb gettin the best of 'em? C'mon, boys, check your egos.
I flew in AW and then left for a LONG time. I started in AH about 3 months before AH2. I dont have the experience that alot of the top 500 fighter pilots have, I'm lucky (if and) when my fighter score is in triple digits! So when my base is gettin cap'd, thats the plane I'll likely take. Am I a Dweeb? If you think so, fine, I really couldn't care less.
If you want to limit this plane, then which is next? Pony, Dora, Spit IV? There has to be one "best" un-perked plane. Just deal with it, it's only a game after all!
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Originally posted by FBBone
There seems to be an excessive ammount of crying about this plane. The funny thing is, I see Rooks, Bish, and Knights all flying it. So who are those that whine so vocaly? IMHO, they are the guys that have been around the longest, have found a high ENY plane that they or their squad sticks to, and they have become very proficient with. If they're such uberpilots, why all the ruckus? Is it because they can't stand the thought of a nOOb gettin the best of 'em? C'mon, boys, check your egos.
I flew in AW and then left for a LONG time. I started in AH about 3 months before AH2. I dont have the experience that alot of the top 500 fighter pilots have, I'm lucky (if and) when my fighter score is in triple digits! So when my base is gettin cap'd, thats the plane I'll likely take. Am I a Dweeb? If you think so, fine, I really couldn't care less.
If you want to limit this plane, then which is next? Pony, Dora, Spit IV? There has to be one "best" un-perked plane. Just deal with it, it's only a game after all!
I checked his stats. I'll give everyone 3 guesses which plane FBBone flies the VAST majority of the time, but I'm thinking ya'll will only need one guess... ;)
Zazen
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My guess is that it the very plane he said in his own post that he takes: the LA-7.
Can I have my cookie now for reading for comprehension? :)
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its always marsha marsha marsha!!
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I don't see what perking the plane will do. So far I have 32 kills in it and 3 deaths to trees, vaulch, and friendly ack, I think. I am sure anyone can afford that. Fly it a little timid and all you need is enough perks for one. Perking it could make things worse. If you think LA7s run now, imagin how fast they would run if there was a price to pay for every death.
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The la7 itself isn't the problem. The problem is the weenie behind the stick. The la7 just allows him to be fully in his element of lameness... all besides shane and a couple others who truly rock in the bird.
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Come on ...
Bottom line is those who hate the La-7 and wish it to be perked are those who want to be able to BnZ with impunity in their late war monsters and can't, when an La-7 is in the area.
There has to be nothing worse for those who think they are the "fly's eyes" when it come to BnZing and then get bounced and run down by a newb in an La-7.
True .. if guys like Stang, Urchin, etc were to fly the La-7 constantly, they would amass huge amounts of kills (like Stang is proving now), but they are the exception to the rule.
Why don't these guys typically fly the La-7 ? ... cause it not a challenge. Those who do fly the La-7 are probably using it as a crutch, but only for a short or intermediate length of time. They will eventually move on, and then a new group of newbs that need the crutch will jump into the cockpit, but these guys are hardly the match that you would encounter with the likes of Stang, Urchin, Shane ... etc.
I still fart in the face of the La-7 and if I do die to its guns ... oh well ... it would be no more different than any of the other planes that have shot me down.
Oh .. and Stang is only re-affirming what Shane has been showing us for a long time.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Bottom line is those who hate the La-7 and wish it to be perked are those who want to be able to BnZ with impunity in their late war monsters and can't, when an La-7 is in the area.
The Mossie is a late war monster?:confused:
;)
Beware of universal statements.
I plan on switching to a late war monster primarily because of the La-7.
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your right slap, thats why i dont bnz when la7 is in area, i tnb with it till it is ded. :D
~S~
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Originally posted by killnu
your right slap, thats why i dont bnz when la7 is in area, i tnb with it till it is ded. :D
~S~
I actually take the opposite tack. I kill the La7's first while I have superior E. I am very good at maintaining an energy advantage, so this is no problem even against the La7 which can pull E out of its ass. The primary advantage of the La7 in the E-Fighting realm is speed, acceleration and climbrate, if you can maintain an E advantage, you can remain both faster and higher than the La7 plenty long enough to kill it if you are skilled at high deflection shooting. Once the La7(s) is/are dead it's time to really have some fun. ;)
This reminds me of one of the first principles I learned when I was a newbie in AWFR trying out different planes. It's really the Mantra for the "Survivalist' and holds true to this day...
-If you are in an Energy fighter, kill everything faster than you first, while your E state is high.
-If you are in angles fighter kill anything that can out-turn you first, because the less E you have the more pronounced their advantage.
Zazen
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Zazen,
I didn't know that Ostwinds ever had superior energy to the La-7. Or are you refering to your small percentage of kills in the Tiffie?
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Originally posted by Karnak
Zazen,
I didn't know that Ostwinds ever had superior energy to the La-7. Or are you refering to your small percentage of kills in the Tiffie?
Heh, wait until we are a little deeper into the camp. I typically avoid flying fighters the first week or so of a new camp because everyone is entirely too timid, even for me, and that's saying alot. ;) Once people die a bunch they typically 'loosen' up and stop running so much. This is also part of the reason I get into my Ostwind initially, I help hasten the speed at which my adversaries get a 'bunch' of deaths. At which point I spend the remainder of my camp in fighters primarily.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Zazen13
I checked his stats. I'll give everyone 3 guesses which plane FBBone flies the VAST majority of the time, but I'm thinking ya'll will only need one guess... ;)
Zazen
Yeah Zazen, I freely admitted to flying LA7s. Theres no guess work here. The fact that you had to check my stats probably means youre one of the cry babies being so vocal, or you have a very low level of reading comprehension.
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Originally posted by FBBone
Yeah Zazen, I freely admitted to flying LA7s. Theres no guess work here. The fact that you had to check my stats probably means youre one of the cry babies being so vocal, or you have a very low level of reading comprehension.
Yea, it was reading comprehension, I spent almost the entire day digging up old HiTech posts. Everything was a blur. Fly whatcha like. I think my life-time K/D vs. La7s is like 30 to 1, no skin off my back. ;)
Zazen
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Yea, it was reading comprehension, I spent almost the entire day digging up old HiTech posts. Everything was a blur. Fly whatcha like. I think my life-time K/D vs. La7s is like 30 to 1, no skin off my back. ;)
Zazen
O.K. I'll buy that, hehe.
Look, my point is, I'm still new. I dont get the chance to "fly" as much as the top guys do. (under 3 hrs on as opposed to 27+ for you as of this post). If the top guys all have K/D ratios like yours, then I dont understand the complaint. I've been killed plenty in LA7s.
The fighter was designed to improve the chances of young, green Russian pilots (or at least thats what I've been told, correct me if thats wrong) and it serves the same role here. :)
Oh, you failed to mention that I like to fly the SpitV and Yak also:aok
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Forgot to mention that I HATE this ENY limiter. If Rooks want to Horde in Ponies, Fine! I'll try to shoot em down in my LA7, lol.:D
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Originally posted by Karnak
Zazen,
I didn't know that Ostwinds ever had superior energy to the La-7. Or are you refering to your small percentage of kills in the Tiffie?
lol
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Fear My P-40 Stang you La-7 flying girlie man :D :rofl
(hearing you flyin that thing might spark my interest in coming back and playing again.)
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Originally posted by Wadke
Fear My P-40 Stang you La-7 flying girlie man :D :rofl
(hearing you flyin that thing might spark my interest in coming back and playing again.)
Talked to Stang last night ... he has parked the La-7 ... he said it got boring ... just as I figured it would.
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Originally posted by Furious
Not me. I go for the p-40's first, because you know that ****ers just showing off.
Furious, I think this is the greatest post I've ever read.
Its so true!
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If Wadke shows up I'm back in the lala in a heartbeat... PheAr that P40!!!
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I've been giving it some thought. Now if Honch comes back too. I'll have to fly Navy Planes.
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Damnit Wadke, I dragged my squad back from the rooks so I'd have someone to fly F6F's with and you up and disappear from the MA.
Ok to be perfectly honest I also came back to escape the ENY whiners. But flyin' with the blue knights was a perk at least. :)
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Wadke, I came back to the MA because Leviathn said the ENY whining was well worth the money. He was right!
Come to find that everyone's a P40 driver now.
Nice.