Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Furball on September 03, 2004, 01:10:38 PM
-
i hope they kill them very very slowly.
take them to siberia and torture them for the rest of their pitiful lives
-
TORTURE! Til they wish they were dead and deny them the luxury
:mad:
-
I imagine they could use a belt sander to marvelous effect. Imagine if you had a large abrasive surface and slowly lowered the person onto it, feet first. Eventually, I guess you're abrade the person away to the waist.
After that, you could use razors to lightly fillet the skin on their arms. Hundreds of small cuts, each of which could have lemon or salt water applied.
A fork could be used to pluck out one eye and display it to the other.
Sleep deprivation the whole time, of course. With medication, you can keep anyone awake or conscious for quite a while.
Imagination can be a powerful thing. Especially when considering what to do with people who would take children hostage.
-
screw that, go medieval on their arses.
http://www.fidnet.com/~kawlaw/devices.html
-
Tie thier hands behind thier back.
Suspend them over a tank of water occupied by 2 or 3 5 foot tiger sharks.
Lower them to the point where they have to hold thier legs above the water to keep from getting eaten. Walk away.
-
Take 'em outside, let them dig their graves, and then shoot them where they stand.
-
Originally posted by SOB
Take 'em outside, let them dig their graves, and then shoot them where they stand.
make them dig the 100 + graves for those they killed first. then take them to an open sewer and shoot them into that.
-
Originally posted by SOB
Take 'em outside, let them dig their graves, and then shoot them where they stand.
Too fast.
-
Originally posted by Furball
make them dig the 100 + graves for those they killed first. then take them to an open sewer and shoot them into that.
Considering their motives and beliefs...fill the grave up with bacon grease first.
-
Originally posted by Edbert MOL
Considering their motives and beliefs...fill the grave up with bacon grease first.
and cut their balls off so they cant get their virgins.
-
Hand cuff them then lock them in a room with the parents whose children were killed and wounded.
-
Some news that will probably not be "aired" by media: 8 of the terrorists were Arabs...
One hour before the fight started I saw an interesting thing in first TV channel news. They said they identified some terrorists and showed their relatives adressing them. First was a mother, she spoke Russian and said that "you are not my son anymore". Second was a wife of one of them, shown with five sleeping kids. She sas speaking Chechen language, with subtitled translation. Chechen language is very primitive... Most of the expressions were like "Remember that you have 5 kids, we are your family, you should understand... I was brought here with children... Please don't hurt anyone... You must understand...".
-
Best Reponse so far...
Lock them in a room with the parents whose children were murdered.
-
Boroda, your country has my condolences. I hope you get revenge on the bastards that did this and the airline bombings. I love the "russia doesnt take **** from no one" attitude and i hope you keep it.
Originally posted by Boroda
Some news that will probably not be "aired" by media: 8 of the terrorists were Arabs...
Sky News is reporting that some of the hostage takers were arabs.
-
It has been reported Boroda, and I personally hope they are found to be Al-Queda. Then maybe Russia and the US can work together to root out these crimminals.
My sympathies to all the victims and the parents of any children hurt or killed.
-
Put them in a dark room...
Small puddle of water on the floor with a slight electric current running through it, not enough to kill but enough to make you want to pick your feet up off the ground...
Play sounds of a rabid animal, and slowly fillet their skin with a small Gillete razor.. Then when the cut is large enough to place a slice of a citris fruit inside their skin, you place it inside, and stitch up the wound.
Then you flash a blinding red light all of a sudden into the room, and then spray them with luke warm water, and place them on a plexi glass table, pour honey over them, then untie them, and place them outside, where they could escape if they tried, and let them tear their skin from the glass, then repeat as necessary..
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Some news that will probably not be "aired" by media: 8 of the terrorists were Arabs...
Oops, sorry. voina.ru reports that presidntal advisor Aslakhanov said 10 terrorists were Arabs and there was one African (black).
Reading unofficial reports now... Thought I'll ask you guys to calm down a bit - but I've changed my mind. They all deserve a good Russian bayonet. Like pigs :mad: They are all afraid to be killed by bayonets, like pigs, so they will not get to their prehistoric paradise :mad:
-
Originally posted by Muckmaw1
Best Reponse so far...
Lock them in a room with the parents whose children were murdered.
At least one of them was already torn apart by locals. Osetins are Christians, but they are highlanders, like that bloody "little but proud nation".
-
I have a russian WWII bayonet, can I stick'em first?
-
Pork blood enema
-
Interrogation.
-
Feed them alive to a heard of starving wild Boars.
-
hmm...since skuzzy has given us permission to get creative...
1st. hot needles under the nails
2nd. place them on a very smooth warm table for a while then suddenly move them to a rough cold surface.
3rd. castrate them...then make a stew with a "'special meat"
4th. place them in a room with the childrens parents, but remove them before death.
5. mute em, make em deaf, blind em. keep em barely alive, then at a random moment, use em as long range target practice for an old folks self defence class.
-
Does anyone remember the movie "Marathon Man"? If so, "is it safe"?
:mad:
-
Dont kill em , thats what they want. Make em live out the rest of their lives in a cell with Big Bubba Leon and a jar a grape jelly.
-
Make them listen to rap music. Over and over and over again.
-
wait guys. you're forgetting the UN with 1/2 your idea's. i can see it already " Russia is commiting atreocities so we must stop it."
but seriously find somthing that will drive them insane but yet not an atrocity.
-
Originally posted by Furball
screw that, go medieval on their arses.
http://www.fidnet.com/~kawlaw/devices.html
Torture was used during the Middle Ages for three reasons:
To Force confessions or secret information from those accused
To discorage dessent and intellectual freedom
To Persuade Jews, Muslims, and other non-believers to accept Christianity
-
Originally posted by GScholz
I see there's a lot of imagination here about torture, but most of it involves too much damage to the body, which would lead to death. Much more can be achieved with a simple iron file ... and teeth.
Yes, I had to live with a big cavity in one of my back teeth for a few weeks before I could get it fixed by the dentist. That one tooth made it intersting.. :)
-
A torture described in "Sniper", the story or Carlos Hathcock seems appropriately horrible...
Fit a basket around and over the person's head, drop in a couple of rats, and sew the lid shut.
That's pretty bad. It takes some monitoring because the guy might somehow manage to kill the rats with his teeth, but if not then it'll take days and hurt really bad. To make it last longer, fit the terrorist with an IV saline drip to keep them from bleeding to death too early.
-
We have the torture fantasies and the faux-UN responses complete with accompanying self-indulgent indignation.
Another O-Club thread comes to fruition.
-
Oh piss off dowding... It's a way to blow off some anger at a pretty horrible situation. Go find your barney doll and give it a good hug.
-
Originally posted by Dowding
We have the torture fantasies and the faux-UN responses complete with accompanying self-indulgent indignation.
Another O-Club thread comes to fruition.
...and some people wonder how Abu Gharib can happen.
-
Originally posted by Sandman
...and some people wonder how Abu Gharib can happen.
Lets not get started on that one shipmate;)
-
I have an idea, try and execute them if found guilty.
When we start to act like terrorists, we lower ourselves to the level of terrorists...
-
Reading posts... stopping....thinking...hmm... .
The "civlized" side is now accepting and crying out for torture...
thinking some more...
figuring that i better shut my trap or be lynched by the mob...
wonder if this has ever happened before in modern history, and what the result of that was...
what a great world we live in...
-
Originally posted by Bodhi
I have an idea, try and execute them if found guilty.
When we start to act like terrorists, we lower ourselves to the level of terrorists...
I agree with Bodhi.
Damn... that only stung a little.
-
Originally posted by Sandman, Dowding etc..
Hug the terrorists!
-
it seems violence and bloodshed is the only language terrorists understand.
-
It had passion .. it had violence.. it had reason and remorse... it even had indignant accusations at those who would act civilized.... I laughed I cried.
Nominated for stereotypical thread of the year.
-
Originally posted by Sandman
I agree with Bodhi.
Damn... that only stung a little.
Holy crap, same here.
-
The problem is that in addition to bringing "justice" to the perpetrators of the crime, it is also desirable to give others a reason to not carry out further similiar crimes. The balancing act is thus - How do we make the punishment suitable to act as both punishment and deterrent without losing our own humanity?
It may boil down to a case of "might makes right", in the same sense that a man getting bitten by a snake might kill the snake and burn the field where the snake came from in order to kill all the other snakes. Appeasement does not work, evidenced by repeated terrorist acts in Russia, the 9-11 attacks, and every other act of escalated terrorism dating back to before the Munich hostage event. Nuking them all is the other extreme and we haven't been pushed hard enough to resort to that solution. What middle ground will give us our 3 desired outcomes - maintain our own moral legitimacy, administer "justice" to the criminal terrorists, and still provide a deterrent against future acts?
I don't take to blackmail well and if the blackmail involves the threat of, or actual use of, lethal force, then my personal inclination is to respond with lethal overwhelming pre-emptive force to prevent a single loss on "my side". But I'm sure that's because I grew up in America where in the past, the weak and indecisive appeasers tended to get killed off before they had a chance to rethink their pacifist position. I'm sure some others in more stable areas of Europe would rather absorb a few dozen or hundred losses on occasion to avoid the upheaval a true solution would require. I just wasn't brought up to consider any losses acceptable. Come to my town and kill someone, and I just might get a bunch of friends and visit your town in order to ensure that the perpetrator and those who would repeat his actions will never ever have the opportunity to come back to my town.
And then we'll wire the place with cable and send in our cultural WMDs... Weapons of Mass Disney. That'll show them.
-
Originally posted by Bodhi
I have an idea, try and execute them if found guilty.
Eventually...
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Become a terrorist!
-
:D
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Eventually...
Grun, if you seem to be that hard up to see them tortured, tell ya what, I'll spring for your ticket over there, you go down to their holding cells and volunteer to be the first one to take the red hot bayonet and start cutting out their eyes... or better yet, how about you hang them by their feet and beat them with split bamboo for an hour or two.
Tell ya what, grow up, cuz I guarantee you that there is no way in hell you'd have the balls to "torture" one of these terrorists. So, why not act like a civilized human being, and stop trying to impress people on this bbs with the internet tough guy act.
Oh, and that goes for everyone else in this thread too.. the advocation of "torture" to "ensure they never do it again" is absolutely BS and will do nothing but escalate the tensions and be cause for further terrorist acts. Take the BS stupidity that happend at Abu Gahrib (sp) prison. That wasn't even torture and it sure helped bolster the ranks of the insurgents. The only thing that is going to work to end terrorism is to catch those responsible and use legit trials and executions if found guilty, better intel to help prevent terrorist acts, and the end to coddling of nations that support terroism. Thats it.
-
I trust the Russian will do the right thing to these perople that slaughtered 200 children.
Dont you?
-
I agree with most - first instinct is to slowly torture them - perhaps removing their skin over a week. But in the end it would do more damage to the person doing the torture. I'd say shoot them in the head and be done with them. Well maybe hit them in the face with an axe and then shoot them. Or maybe remove a certain apendage, shove it in their mouth and then shoot them...
I dunno, I just can't cant imagine the abaration that would prey on school children.
-
Story I heard a while back. I checked snopes.com and it is undetermined. True or not Its worth a thought.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOW TO STOP ISLAMIC TERRORISTS . . . it worked once in our History . . .
Once in US history an episode of Islamic terrorism was very quickly stopped. It happened in the Philippines about 1911, when Gen. John J. Pershing was in command of the garrison. There had been numerous Islamic terrorist attacks, so "Black Jack" told his boys to catch the perps and teach them a lesson.
Forced to dig their own graves, the terrorists were all tied to posts, execution style. The US soldiers then brought in pigs and slaughtered them, rubbing their bullets in the blood and fat. Thus, the terrorists were terrorized; they saw that they would be contaminated with hogs' blood. This would mean that they could not enter Heaven, even if they died as terrorist martyrs.
All but one was shot, their bodies dumped into the grave, and the hog guts dumped atop the bodies. The lone survivor was allowed to escape back to the terrorist camp and tell his brethren what happened to the others. This brought a stop to terrorism in the Philippines for the next 50 years.
Pointing a gun into the face of Islamic terrorists won't make them flinch. They welcome the chance to die for Allah. Like Gen. Pershing, we must show them that they won't get to Muslim heaven (which they believe has an endless supply of virgins) but instead will die with the hated pigs of the devil.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RHIN0
-
Originally posted by OneWordAnswer
Interrogation.
Infiltration.
-
kevykev.......
It work for the British in late 1800s , stopped like hitting a brick wall.
Give them a fair trial, if convicted , have a public execution, open the bellys of 3 pigs and spread on top of bodies in grave.
Cover bodies,tell them this will happen from now on, whether taken alive or dead.
If there are those that think this is cruel, tell us what you think those poor kids lives are worth.
I dont think torture is right or will do any good .
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I trust the Russian will do the right thing to these perople that slaughtered 200 children.
Nothing they do will bring the children back.
-
Originally posted by Sandman
Nothing they do will bring the children back.
Gee Whiz Captain Obvious!
-
Originally posted by Sandman
Nothing they do will bring the children back.
True, but they might do something to prevent more from being murdered.
-
Originally posted by AKIron
True, but they might do something to prevent more from being murdered.
Not anything they would or wouldnt do to those 3 captured.
-
You want a good response - I suggest you read this suggestion offered by the US Navy magazine Proceedings:
http://www.usni.org/Proceedings/Articles03/prolayton03.htm#potential
The new Arab approach to conflict is an adaptation of the revolutionary warfare of the second half of the 20th century.1 Assassins using this new way of war now swim among the populations of the world.2 With cheap, unrestricted global air travel provided by Western technology, they can deploy wherever they wish; there are no front lines or safe rear areas. The assassins make effective use of liberal immigration policies that have permitted large numbers of Middle Eastern migrants to settle in the West. Small numbers of fellow travelers and sympathizers are distributed throughout Western nations, able to be activated to provide local support, protection, and knowledge for deploying assassins. Their command-and-control system relies on commercial communications systems and business application cryptography. This makes their control system strong, redundant, secure, and global and the assassins hard to detect, track, and target.
The new Arab way of war is parasitic. Local supporters acquire weapons and explosives, provide safe houses, arrange transportation, and steal or hire vehicles. Assassins fly in, carry out attacks, and fly out quickly, avoiding arrest. Relying completely on local sources, they can strike deep into the Western heartlands, mimicking the strategic air attacks characteristic of the West.
Foot soldiers employed in this way of war usually are male and middle class and often well-educated, with strong religious fervor. A good education is necessary to operate independently and covertly in Western societies. The most dedicated assassins come from countries with a well-established, openly anti-Western education system antagonistic to secular societies, modernism, and human rights. A consuming spiritual passion, with a commitment bordering on fanaticism, is a valuable attribute for members of a small group when deployed into hostile countries. Given these warfare techniques, Muslims seem likely to remain the prime source of recruits.
Intentionally, there is no obvious state involvement. In his attack, the assassin dies or melts into the crowd, providing no proof of who is responsible. This tactic is meant to confuse and frustrate a legally justifiable response, as the Western paradigm based on the 1648 Peace of Westphalia assumes a state-versus-state conflict. Avoiding giving the West a defined, obvious state opponent is a rational strategy peculiar to the Arab way of war.
The Arab combat style imposes small financial burden on its parent societies, allowing long and protracted wars without inflicting economic hardship. Employing only small numbers of personnel with few needs, wars can be financed privately and seemingly remain independent of overt government support.
A major innovation of the Arab way of war is the deliberate targeting of civilians. The assassins' rhetoric makes no distinction between civilian and military targets. Attacking civilians guarantees global attention as the media, reflecting global values, has a horror of the infliction of cruelty on noncombatants. Attacking civilians is perceived by the assassins as the most direct route to influence global opinion and to affect the national will of the nations struck. Attacks usually are conducted with considerable skill, timing, expertise, and precision but are designed to kill absolutely indiscriminately. Given this, the strategic aim of attacks is hard to discern.4 Violence customarily is conceived as a means to an end, but the essence in this style of war seems to be inflicting terror. Pakistani Brigadier S. K. Malik notes: "Terror is not a means of imposing decision upon the enemy; it is the decision we wish to impose on him.
INHERENT PROBLEMS
"The manner of Arab warfare is intentionally designed contrary to the modern international laws of war. Deliberately attacking civilians, noncombatants, women, and children is against the moral codes of all religions—including Islam. Such actions also violate the ethical codes enshrined in the U.N. human rights charters. The leaders directing such acts are vulnerable to charges of war crimes and international human rights trials. Any country that harbors them inherently appears as an outlaw state operating outside of the civilized world and in defiance of U.N. conventions.
Middle Eastern societies frequently criticize the immoral and lax ethical stance of the secular and materialist West. It is ironic that their chosen way of war makes their assassins appear immoral and unprincipled, which may be why their commanders seek not to identify themselves. Anonymity provides safety from accusations of moral bankruptcy.
Although the tactics of the Arab system rely almost completely on the civilian technology and resources of those nations being attacked, the assassins generally originate from another nation-state. A specific government may not support assassins openly, but to thrive the assassins rely on the acquiescence, sympathy, and often active support of the population from which they came. A society has created them and continues to provide financing, safe harbor, and training. "the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." The silence of the good men of the Middle East implies a terrible consent.
Solution:
The West now has no choice. For many years the Arab way of war was ignored and its brutal methods overlooked, but this option now is impossible. The societies of the Middle East have forced the West to retaliate with a multifaceted response that is well under way. This response may be complemented by a focus on on denying the support base that keeps the assassins operational.
A dilemma the West faces is whom to hold responsible for the assassins' attacks. The Western warfare paradigm holds the government of the hostile nation-state responsible rather than the people. In the modern Arab conflict style, the people, not the government, often bear responsibility, especially in situations where the central government is weak, fragmented, ineffectual, or corrupt. The West's indignation must be focused on the societies, not just the governments of the nations from which the assassins originate. Members of the societies directly or indirectly supporting attacks must understand they will be held responsible and pay a price for their support.
There is a pressing need to deter the responsible Middle Eastern societies from their chosen path of escalating terrorism. Several Middle Eastern states harbor sizable elements that support the Arab way of war. Those that support this method of conflict have been identified by their actions over several decades. They exist in unfriendly states such as Iran and Syria, but also in friendly nations such as Saudi Arabia, whose children financed, directed, and undertook the 11 September attacks. This population support base is as vulnerable to attack as are the societies of the West. Focusing attention on the support base would be contentious and controversial. However, the West must be innovative and take advantage of inherent weakness in the Arab conflict paradigm to frustrate the steady intensification of violence directed against its citizens.
The West could retaliate with random and indiscriminate attacks on particular Middle Eastern cities, thereby replicating the Arab warfare approach, but this goes against centuries of Western efforts to limit the impact of war and is completely unacceptable.6 Not the whole societies of those Middle Eastern nations involved, but only a small, discernable sliver of these societies should be held accountable and deterred from further support of the Arab way of war. The assassins inevitably are from the middle class, with their commanders among the more wealthy members of the country. The middle and wealthy classes have great power in their own societies at the local level, and more real influence with the masses than their usually despotic governments. If the majority of the middle and wealthy classes determined to no longer directly or indirectly support the Arab style of conflict, this would have a significant impact. Without an active support base, and with the possibility of their activities being compromised at any time, assassins' freedom of action would be curtailed severely.
An intense, relentless psychological campaign could be undertaken targeting the middle and wealthy classes of the Middle Eastern nations involved. Mass-marketing methods may offer insight into how to apply long-term, focused psychological pressure. The aim of such a campaign would be to make each individual perceive being held personally responsible and targeted for his or her support of the Arab way of war. The proud, strongly religious societies of the Middle East may be vulnerable to considerable self-doubt about the moral bankruptcy of their actions and their pronounced ethical decline compared to the remainder of the world. This effort would complement the other measures of defense and containment already being undertaken. Consideration also could be given to applying economic pressure, restrictions, and constraints, such as those used against South Africa during the apartheid years.
Incentives should be offered as well. Easy means should be provided to allow individuals to relay information concerning members of their societies engaging in acts of war. If individuals or groups tire of the difficulties caused by supporting the assassins, an opportunity should be given for them to make a positive contribution to overcoming the problems inflicted. There would be many false reports, but occasionally something of real value would be passed. The possibility of this occurring would create a sense of vulnerability among assassin organizations.
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Not anything they would or wouldnt do to those 3 captured.
Not so sure about that. They might learn of many associates that didn't participate in this particular slaughter. Or, they might make an example of them that would give others so inclined a pause.
-
I dont see that. If they put them in jail they become martyrs and some other bunch will do another pointless operation to free them by blackmail. More die, rinse away the blood and gore and then repeat...
If they make a big trial and kill them, then thats just another martyrdom.
Best thing to do imo is to torture them for information and payback and then, in due time, shoot them in the back of the head - all quitely and without much fanfare.
The terrprists will do their own thing, and so must the Russians.
-
I pray for Russia and the Russian people in dealing with the terrorists. This tragedy just completely breaks my heart.
It boggles my mind that people can be so heartless and cruel.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
I though you said you were from Croatia Grun ... you sound very Serb to me though.
It's not like the Russians have been treating the Chechens with silk gloves in this conflict. Becoming terrorists is rather counterproductive if you're trying to fight terrorism.
What experience does your country have with terrorists?
-
Originally posted by GScholz
I though you said you were from Croatia Grun ... you sound very Serb to me though.
It's not like the Russians have been treating the Chechens with silk gloves in this conflict. Becoming terrorists is rather counterproductive if you're trying to fight terrorism.
Nice cheapshot. Maybe the Dutch UN and their Serbian drinking buddies at srebrenica thought those refugeees were just like the chechen tererorists - and desreved the same treatment...
I sure dont.. You see I can do cheapshots too..
As for chechnya, I have repeatetedly expressed my disagreenent of the barbaric russian behaviour, expecially the seige and razing of Grozny...
None of that changes the fact these terrorists should be interrigatec and shot, and they will.
-
knowing the russian mindset, the response will probably be more airstrikes and shellings on whatever cities/villages/mudholse chechens still hold, the victimes being mainly women and children.
not justified, but under the circumstances understandable...
-
Originally posted by GScholz
A few hijacked airliners have landed here, nothing major.
>>>
Due process should be followed when criminals are captured. Of course what Russian "due process" entails may be a bit different to what we are used to.
So, would you agree with whatever Russia decides is due process?
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Nope. Depends on what it is.
Does Russia have a right to decide what their due process should be?
-
Half you people are disgusting. Especially that torture page.
I actually agree with Bohdi.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Yes.
so you would agree that the US has the right to hold people in Guantanamo. I thank you for your support
-
Originally posted by hawker238
Half you people are disgusting. Especially that torture page.
I actually agree with Bohdi.
Gotta agree... the fact that middle class americans might even consider this sort of thing (http://www.geocities.com/christprise/holy-inquisitions-2.html) is frightening.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Nuke, your argument was flawed from the beginning. You asked me if I would agree to whatever Russia decides is due process. I said no. I also say no to agreeing with what you do at Guantanamo. You do however have the right to decide what your due process should be ... but that does not mean I agree with it.
You see I would not make a very good American, I have this moron thing that I do ... it's called "forming my own opinions". ;)
I gave you a box, you jumped into it and I closed it. Owned!
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Learn to form correct premises, then perhaps you can make a "box". I'm fully capable of choosing what I agree with. Rights on the other hand are out of my power to decide.
you said
Due process should be followed when criminals are captured.
This means that you believe due process should be followed, right?
You the said that countries should decide what is considered due process.
1+1 equals 2, right? You said you believe due process should be followed, then said that countries should decide what is considered due process.
So, when countries follow their due process, you should agree that that country is doing what you believe to be correct, right?
-
Hmmm... probably tough to make a case that the U.S. is following some sort of due process WRT Guantanamo.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
I believe I've answered that.
Russia or the USA or any other nation has the right to do whatever they like within their borders.
Is that more clear?
yeah, maybe a little.
But you would then agree that Germany had the right to murder Jews. You cannot support your position without being nutz.
-
ok, it's been awhile, but ...
I WIN!
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Germany had and still has the right to do whatever they like within their borders, so do you. However Germany committed atrocities on such a scale that they broke every international law, /B]
But you don't care about international law, you say each country has a right to do whatever it wants within it's borders.
Jump into another box why don't you? Man, you are losing pretty badly.
-
I win!
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Every country also has the right to invade another country as long as it is justifiable by international law or The Rights of Peoples. But your right about one thing; we can all just sit by and watch if we want. Or we can for instance invade Germany to save the Jews if we feel we need to, because Germany broke the law and is fair game.
Do I really have to break out the crayons and draw you a picture? ;)
instead of drawing a picture, how about you stick to the original argument, in which you said every country should decide what due process should be?
Who is talking about invasions? We are talking about due process. Man, either say goodnight or just concede that you have lost.
-
Okay, I lost. I am so embarassed.... please forgive me.
-
I'm being nice, just say goodnight and be done with it.
-
GS with all due respect where these gracious internatinal laws of yours when the serbs were slaughtering people en masse in bosnia and shelling sarajevo with no end in sight...
Europe did not act decisivley to stop that, whatever else was done was certainly not decisive....
Thats why I have ZERO respect for such lofty unwritten laws...
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
GS with all due respect where these gracious internatinal laws of yours when the serbs were slaughtering people en masse in bosnia and shelling sarajevo with no end in sight...
Europe did not act decisivley to stop that, whatever else was done was certainly not decisive....
Thats why I have ZERO respect for such lofty unwritten laws...
Read up Grun, he already jumped into my box and I closed it.
He says every nation, even Nazi Germany, has a right to decide what it's due process is. Read up my friend and be amazed!
-
Originally posted by GScholz
the political leadership didn't want to do that at the time, including yours.
Fantastic response just what I expected.
We didnt want to do anything until America took care of the problem for us..
Tell me GS is that the state of modern European policy - we wont take care of genocides in our own back yard until America does..
Funny. Your grand napoleooinc unwritten laws arent worth anything...
-
Originally posted by NUKE
Read up Grun, he already jumped into my box and I closed it.
He says every nation, even Nazi Germany, has a right to decide what it's due process is. Read up my friend and be amazed!
GS and I allready wnt thriough this. His stance is that you cant intefere in another nations legal syatem in any case. In anyt case exceot of course they violate some unwritten laws or something. But GS last post shows how dearly he relly values them.. "We choose to do nothing until the USA did it for us"
-
Germany had and still has the right to do whatever they like within their borders, so do you. However Germany committed atrocities on such a scale that they broke every international law,
Anyone have any questions? A complete contradiction in one sentence.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Go genocide!!!!
-
I WIN!
-
I would have to say that Gsholz is my biatch at this point. I completely trounced every one of your arguments and I am willing to continue.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
It was those laws that allowed (among others) America to intervene. You see when a nation invades another nation it is usually frowned upon ... unless it is justifiable by the set of rules that most nation agree by. Then it is seen as a righteous act. However no laws exist that requires a nation to act upon other nations violations of the rules.
So you are saying modern Europe was gutless to do anything for 4 years until the situation got so bad that even countries on the side of the globe couldnt stand by..
Great!
-
Well, only if you say so slick!
-
You guys want to end terrorism?
Start listening to the pleas that were ignored. That is what causes terrorism, plain and simple ignoring a problem.
The "bottom line" issue with terrorism is one thing:
Israel
The Israeli's by UN charter (whatever the #) basically were given stolen land, based on 2000 year old scrolls. The Palestinians were robbed of their land, and told to stick it. Well guess what, they went about it very orderly at first. They apporached international courts with land deeds, trails of ownership, and all the proof to say the land was truly theirs... but these people were ignored. They persisted, and filed lawsuits, and many other non-violent forms and attempts to regain their homes, groves, and farms, still they were ignored. Finally, they resorted to something that did get attention... violence, and hence the evolution of the terrorist started. In the end, the lack of education, and exploitation of the masses by radical clerics like Al Sadr, has produced a limitless supply of would-be martyrs based on false promises and even broader lies to defend and further the cleric's political goals. The one thing that links this too the past crimes though is the common desire for a Palestinian State. So, rest assured, as long as their is breath in the Islamic World, no modern Palestinian State, and continued Western Presence in the Middle East, their will be a ready supply of terrorists.
FYI, before any of you little ingrates accuse me of being anti-semetic, know that I do not support the over throw of Israel, but I do support the establishment of a seperate and autonomous Palestinian State in the West Bank. Ohh, and for any dolts that try to say that Israel was nothing but desert before they had it, stop reading Israeli propoganda, and pick up a National Geographic showing the area in the 30's... you will be astonished.
-
Grun, don't let him get off the hook. He said every country has the right to decide it's own laws...regardless.
He has tried to change the subject...please don't let him. He was in his box.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Yeah, pretty much. Or perhaps they just didn't care enough to make such a commitment. In either case is was shameful.
Aye. :(
-
I know GS is basically wrong, that was decided in our earlier argument. He just wont admit it. And I wont press him out of my magnanimous american kindness.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Every country has the right to decide its own laws. What is so difficult to understand; it's a very simple concept.
So again, Nazi Germany had a right to kill all the Jews, because you BELIEVE that they should have that right. I get it
-
Get in the box!
-
Originally posted by GScholz
*lol* You mean the train wreck thread we barely walked away from?
You crawled while I strutted away like a texas tiger... :)
-
Originally posted by GScholz
No I refuse to get in the box! You have to build a much better one first!
Yes, Germany had the right to do whatever they wanted with the Jews, but the rest of the world had the right to kick their bellybutton for doing it.
man, you just lost it.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
No I refuse to get in the box! You have to build a much better one first!
Yes, Germany had the right to do whatever they wanted with the Jews, but the rest of the world had the right to kick their bellybutton for doing it.
Good. Thats better. same goes for Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Norway (dont yu touch the lapps) etc.. ;)
-
Originally posted by GScholz
No you didn't! (You have tigers in Texas?) ;)
Many.. :)
-
Originally posted by GScholz
I don't think so, but I seem to have lost you though.
How sad! Hope you dont take it so hard, you'll find somebody new...
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Yes, Germany had the right to do whatever they wanted with the Jews, but the rest of the world had the right to kick their bellybutton for doing it.
So you completely agree that the US had the right to kick Iraq's "ass" ?
I'm not going away Gsholz. You are losing on all of your points.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Strange. I was under the impression that tigers only existed (in the wild) in Asia. What sort of tigers are you talking about? :)
http://www.jibjab.com
Watch the video and u see.
-
Originally posted by Bodhi
You guys want to end terrorism?
Start listening to the pleas that were ignored. That is what causes terrorism, plain and simple ignoring a problem.
The "bottom line" issue with terrorism is one thing:
Israel
The Israeli's by UN charter (whatever the #) basically were given stolen land, based on 2000 year old scrolls. The Palestinians were robbed of their land, and told to stick it. Well guess what, they went about it very orderly at first. They apporached international courts with land deeds, trails of ownership, and all the proof to say the land was truly theirs... but these people were ignored. They persisted, and filed lawsuits, and many other non-violent forms and attempts to regain their homes, groves, and farms, still they were ignored. Finally, they resorted to something that did get attention... violence, and hence the evolution of the terrorist started. In the end, the lack of education, and exploitation of the masses by radical clerics like Al Sadr, has produced a limitless supply of would-be martyrs based on false promises and even broader lies to defend and further the cleric's political goals. The one thing that links this too the past crimes though is the common desire for a Palestinian State. So, rest assured, as long as their is breath in the Islamic World, no modern Palestinian State, and continued Western Presence in the Middle East, their will be a ready supply of terrorists.
FYI, before any of you little ingrates accuse me of being anti-semetic, know that I do not support the over throw of Israel, but I do support the establishment of a seperate and autonomous Palestinian State in the West Bank. Ohh, and for any dolts that try to say that Israel was nothing but desert before they had it, stop reading Israeli propoganda, and pick up a National Geographic showing the area in the 30's... you will be astonished.
Okay, that's it! Who are you and what did you do with Bodhi??
Bodhi, it wasn't as clean as you post it, but for the most part it's accurate. It took the deaths of Palestinians from the illegal settlements as well. Had Israel not kept expanding their settlements into the Occupied territories, my bet is the violence would still be fairly "low". Compare the figures, much more palestinians (disregard the suicide bombers as those weren't at the hands of the Israelis) have been killed compared to Israelis.
Before the State of Israel was established in '48, there were those in the pro-Israeli side that were deemed as terrorists.
OSL has said that until the Palestinians have peace, neither will we. I'm sure the Palestinians would rather be building up their country rather than destroy another (Israel). Maybe they deserve that opportunity?
-
OSL has said that until the Palestinians have peace, neither will we. I'm sure the Palestinians would rather be building up their country rather than destroy another (Israel). Maybe they deserve that opportunity?
That opportunity was the 1990s peace process. The palestenians stoped negotitiating and turned to a new intifada..
Bin Laden does not give 1 damn about them.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Ah, so a Texas tiger is Bush on a horse? So you mean you strutted away from the train wreck like Bush on a horse? ... ... ... Seriously, do you walk like a horse?
j/k ;)
Norway is not too strong on figurative language.. :) NP most of that regions languages are quite low context and literal.
-
BTW what part of that cute story Bohdi posted about palestenian lawyers includes the immediate arab invasion of Israel right off the bat in 1948??
Hmm...
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
OSL has said that until the Palestinians have peace, neither will we. I'm sure the Palestinians would rather be building up their country rather than destroy another (Israel). Maybe they deserve that opportunity?
That opportunity was the 1990s peace process. The palestenians stoped negotitiating and turned to a new intifada..
Bin Laden does not give 1 damn about them.
How do you know this?
-
The new intifada is a fact. It came after the breakdown of negotiations. Arafat rejected a Barak proposal and refused to go on further.
Bin Laden never did anything forthe palestians. His cause was in saudi arabia. He started because he was pissed the US army came to SA in the gulf war.
And finally do you want to do anythin g Bin Laden asks?
-
This is the root cause of the infitada:
Casualties (http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Total_Casualties.asp)
That and the continued net expansion of Palestinian Occupied Territories by the Israeli Settlers costing innocent Palestinian lives and their homes and businesses.
The Palestinians and other Arabs didn't all of a sudden wake up and say: "You know, I should sacrifice my life in a suicide bombing attemp because I'm jealous of the Democracies of Israel and the US."
Barak's proposal wasn't even an honest one for the Palestinians. No one would settle for that.
Edit....
BTW, the minority fanatics in Israel will guarantee the eventual destruction of Israel.
Edit again....
This does not mean I'm anti- Israel, far from it. Israel should withdraw from the Occupied territories back to the '67 borders, then build their wall. Call the West Bank as Palestine and allow the commercial and residential build up of those areas. Allow the Palestinians to build their own water salination plant so they can control their own water. Yeah, given a choice, they'll choose building and developing their own country over destroying another.
-
wow
-
bodhi,
Giving them what they want will not end terrorism. There will allway's be a group of sorts that has demands for some so called in-justice.
It may sound simple but its the truth you can't please everyone.
apeasing one group only makes the next one stronger. That does more to cause terrorism than anything else.
What about these stupid environmental groups like ELF that are in fact terrorists. Do you think we should all just throw away are car keys because they want us too?
to top it off were is our testicular fortitude here. Do we feel sorry for the chechnyens (SP) in this case because they are "oppressed" by the russion and forced to kill a bunch of kids.
Do we really need to give them what they want when they cant acheive this through civil means?
As far as the palestinians go they've had their chance. There has been many times when other countrys got involved and offered them peace and they dont want it. Israel is their sworn enemy and they'd rather blow up busses meanwhile winning world idiot sympothy.
A terrorist is a criminal.....nothing more nothing less. A freedom fighter stops becoming one when he starts targeting the innocent.
-
very nice hijack grun, nuke, and GS.
-
lol.. nice debate you guys had after i fell asleep in my chair yesterday :D
I sure am glad that everyone dont advocate torture tho, page one was scary reading.
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
lol.. nice debate you guys had after i fell asleep in my chair yesterday :D
I sure am glad that everyone dont advocate torture tho, page one was scary reading.
You havn't met many New Yorker's have you?
-
Originally posted by SaburoS
This is the root cause of the infitada:
Barak's proposal wasn't even an honest one for the Palestinians. No one would settle for that.
There's the truth to it..
The Barak proposal wasnt the perfect solution, yet it was the most generous and comprehensive offere ever by an Isreali PM..
And what doea Arafat do? Does he seize thae opportuinty and negotiate some more to get better water acess or more solid borders? Nah... That kind of boring final deatail is the work of satesmen, and thats beneath him..
No, seeing the end of his revolutinary career, Arafat falls back into hos comfort zone and hsi power base - death and misery..
-
Originally posted by Wolfala
You havn't met many New Yorker's have you?
Actually, two of the 3D americans i know come from New York :)
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
Actually, two of the 3D americans i know come from New York :)
Lazs will love that... :D
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Lazs will love that... :D
:confused:
-
I'll let you find out. He doesnt think too much of big city folk.. :)
BTW does Porsgrunn mean anything? Whats a "pors" and what the heck is it doing to me? :D
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
There's the truth to it..
The Barak proposal wasnt the perfect solution, yet it was the most generous and comprehensive offere ever by an Isreali PM..
And what doea Arafat do? Does he seize thae opportuinty and negotiate some more to get better water acess or more solid borders? Nah... That kind of boring final deatail is the work of satesmen, and thats beneath him..
No, seeing the end of his revolutinary career, Arafat falls back into hos comfort zone and hsi power base - death and misery..
Yet it was sadly lacking in fairness for the Palestinians. Just goes to show how far apart they are in resolving this peacefully.
Negotiations broke down when it was realized that that was the most Israel would offer. That's the key of negotiation, to negotiate an agreeable solution that can be settled on by both sides, not about agreeing to a settlement, only to ask for more later.
Had Arafat accepted that deal, he'd of been killed as a traitor by the fanatical Palestinians as they would be viewing it tantamount to a sell out. The Occupied Territories are not up for grabs. They belong to the Palestinians, every inch of it. That is the sticking point. The road map to peace is in the hands of those that are in power, the Israelis. They need to give up the occupied territories.
The Israelis were never interested in a peaceful deal. Their idea of concessions is to take up settlements in the Occupied Territories and give back only some of what they've taken. Sorry, but no one settles for receiving back only part of what was stolen from you. You still wonder why the Palestinians are pissed off?
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I'll let you find out. He doesnt think too much of big city folk.. :)
BTW does Porsgrunn mean anything? Whats a "pors" and what the heck is it doing to me? :D
aha :D
Porsgrunn does mean something. Pors is a plant/urb and "grunn" means ground... So it kinda means "ground where the pors plant grows"... or someting like that
-edit- ripsnorted from our towns website: "Porsgrunn was named after a small shrub called Pors (Myrica gale), which grew on marshy grounds along the banks of the river, where the porcelain factory is today."
-
Originally posted by SaburoS
Yet it was sadly lacking in fairness for the Palestinians. Just goes to show how far apart they are in resolving this peacefully.
Negotiations broke down when it was realized that that was the most Israel would offer. That's the key of negotiation, to negotiate an agreeable solution that can be settled on by both sides, not about agreeing to a settlement, only to ask for more later.
Had Arafat accepted that deal, he'd of been killed as a traitor by the fanatical Palestinians as they would be viewing it tantamount to a sell out. The Occupied Territories are not up for grabs. They belong to the Palestinians, every inch of it. That is the sticking point. The road map to peace is in the hands of those that are in power, the Israelis. They need to give up the occupied territories.
The Israelis were never interested in a peaceful deal. Their idea of concessions is to take up settlements in the Occupied Territories and give back only some of what they've taken. Sorry, but no one settles for receiving back only part of what was stolen from you. You still wonder why the Palestinians are pissed off?
I agree he should not have accepted it. They should have on on negotiating, not gone back to the late 1980s... What, he tought he could get a beter deal by staring another intifada and blowing up pizza parlors and city busses full of Isreali school cchildren? Give me a break.
If Arafat was 1/1000 a man that Gandhi was none of this would an issue.. But he isnt, he's a self indulgnat terrorist thug. Yea he got all nice and Nobel in the 1990s, but it was just an act..
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
There's the truth to it..
The Barak proposal wasnt the perfect solution, yet it was the most generous and comprehensive offere ever by an Isreali PM..
And what doea Arafat do? Does he seize thae opportuinty and negotiate some more to get better water acess or more solid borders? Nah... That kind of boring final deatail is the work of satesmen, and thats beneath him..
No, seeing the end of his revolutinary career, Arafat falls back into hos comfort zone and hsi power base - death and misery..
So, based on the fact that the Israeli's offered a peace proposal (the very same Israeli's that continually kick Palestinians out of their homes) the Palestinians should have to accept it?
Your logic is so fugged it's astonishing, cripes you are rivaling the intelligence level of some of the liberals on this BBS.
Keep in mind one thing, Arafat is NOT the voice of the Palestinians, even though some think he is. You can blame the UN for that. He is the voice of terrorism still trying to remain in power. He, needs to be tried for his crimes, as do numerous Israeli and other Palestinian leaders. It is because of their behavior, that this whole thing has escalated to this level. Most Palestinians want to live in peace, and have lives, and oppurtunities like everyone else. While this conflict continues to rage, with a "western power" (Israel) pretty much calling the shots, the world of Islam will continue to be in a rage. Until that changes, and their is going to be a change one way or another, the world will be hostage to this conflict.
Oh, and you think OSB doesn't give a fug about Palestine? Read through a bit of his writings and statements prior to 9/11. I think you will be surprised.
Open your eyes, pick up a few books besides Jane's Encyclopedia of Military hardware, and truly understand the world. May I suggest some light reading to start:
The Crisis of Islam (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679642811/qid=1094307616/sr=ka-1/ref=pd_ka_1/102-6017019-1796109)
Understanding Islam (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0452011604/102-6017019-1796109?v=glance)
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I agree he should not have accepted it. They should have on on negotiating, not gone back to the late 1980s... What, he tought he could get a beter deal by staring another intifada and blowing up pizza parlors and city busses full of Isreali school cchildren? Give me a break.
If Arafat was 1/1000 a man that Gandhi was none of this would an issue.. But he isnt, he's a self indulgnat terrorist thug. Yea he got all nice and Nobel in the 1990s, but it was just an act..
Reading is fundemantal Bodhi...
Feel free to apologize for your bizzare post any time..
It's ok Bodhi, just apologize. No problem with that at all..
-
Originally posted by SaburoS
Okay, that's it! Who are you and what did you do with Bodhi??
Bodhi, it wasn't as clean as you post it, but for the most part it's accurate. It took the deaths of Palestinians from the illegal settlements as well. Had Israel not kept expanding their settlements into the Occupied territories, my bet is the violence would still be fairly "low". Compare the figures, much more palestinians (disregard the suicide bombers as those weren't at the hands of the Israelis) have been killed compared to Israelis.
Before the State of Israel was established in '48, there were those in the pro-Israeli side that were deemed as terrorists.
OSL has said that until the Palestinians have peace, neither will we. I'm sure the Palestinians would rather be building up their country rather than destroy another (Israel). Maybe they deserve that opportunity?
SaburoS,
I know what I wrote is the super simplified version of events causng the problem, but most of these clueless dolts will not understand it if you bring it all the way back to the shame behind the fall of the Ottoman Empire, and subsequent conversion of Turkey to western ideals, or the shame in having foreign investment throughout the Middle East, or the angst caused by 600 years of technology arriving in the span of 50 years. Those are all major factors in this, but in the end, the ignorance of the situation on both sides is allowing it to perpetuate.
-
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Do we really need to give them what they want when they cant acheive this through civil means?
Guns...
They have tried REPEATEDLY through civil means, and gotten nothing but silence, and Israeli's removing them from their property, and their homes. So, terrorism sprouts up, and voila... thye are listened to.
Originally posted by Gunslinger
As far as the palestinians go they've had their chance. There has been many times when other countrys got involved and offered them peace and they dont want it. Israel is their sworn enemy and they'd rather blow up busses meanwhile winning world idiot sympothy.
They've had their chance? So I suppose by that logic they should just be killed off like the vermin they are? That's BS American arrogance, by trying to simplify this matter to a point that has a simple solution... kill em all, cuz the Israeli's are more like us. Well, that logic is fundamentally fugged, and no better than the logic that enlists kids to drive explosive laden cars into buildings. The Palestinians deserve their own country, and that is a fact, and until it happens, the violence will continue.
BTW, I am not saying the violence will instantly stop, as many psychopaths like Hammas, and Sadr will remain without power and attempt to regain it through all they know... inciting terrorism. Those few, will have to be rooted out, and tried and executed for their hands part in the violence.
Originally posted by Gunslinger
A terrorist is a criminal.....nothing more nothing less. A freedom fighter stops becoming one when he starts targeting the innocent.
Well said, I agree 100%. Terrorism is a horrific act, that needs to be dealt with swiftly by law.
But... remeber that terrorism has many faces, and the face of Israel's is in there too.
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Reading is fundemantal Bodhi...
Feel free to apologize for your bizzare post any time..
It's ok Bodhi, just apologize. No problem with that at all..
You will get no apology from me Grun, but you are more than welcome to debate this until you realise how screwed up your basic thoughts on this issue are...
You see what peeves me the most about your posts, are the quick advocation for the deliverance of violence. Now I could understand this if you were living in the West Bank, or Beirut, or even Sadr city, but you don't. I could further understand it if you were a member of the military trying to end the violence over there, but you aren't. You are just another pseudo educated dolt, who is more than likely over weight sitting behind a computer screen with a closed mind typing away.
Well guess what, you're realisation of how stupid your posts are at the beginning of this thread is my goal. Until then, spout away, and show us how "smart":rolleyes: you really are.
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
If Arafat was 1/1000 a man that Gandhi was none of this would an issue.. But he isnt, he's a self indulgnat terrorist thug. Yea he got all nice and Nobel in the 1990s, but it was just an act..
Originally posted by Bodhi
Keep in mind one thing, Arafat is NOT the voice of the Palestinians, even though some think he is. You can blame the UN for that. He is the voice of terrorism still trying to remain in power. He, needs to be tried for his crimes, as do numerous Israeli and other Palestinian leaders. It is because of their behavior, that this whole thing has escalated to this level. Most Palestinians want to live in peace, and have lives, and oppurtunities like everyone else.
-
ya know... a lot of you sadists that advocate torture are against the death penalty in other threads.
I don't believe in torture.... they are sick rabid dogs and should be put down as humanely as possible.
sheesh some of you go on about shutting down the whole U.S. military and throwing the president in prison if one iraqi prisoner is made to wear panties on his head. Now you want to go back to the inquisition?
you guys creep me out.
lazs
-
Would it have been less of a tragedy if these Muslims had killed 200 people in an assisted living facility?
-
I don't think any of you fellas have much to worry about, every thing I've ever heard about Russian interrogation and retribution indicates these boys are gonna be DEALT with. Harshly.
In cases like this one not having your hands tied by a Bill of Rights and a Constitution seem to be a plus.
-
Personal attack
-
Off topic
-
Personal attack
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Personal attack/Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
wonder if all you "give them a fair trial kill them quickly" people would feel the same if it was one of your children murdered by a bomb surrounded by nails, bolts and whatever else they could find - simply to kill and maim as many as possible.
You may act all high, mighty and judicial now, but put you in a different situation and i am betting most or all of you would change your mind. These are real people murdered, not just numbers.
Would love to make those bastards pay for that as painfully as possible for the pain they have caused to those in russia.
-
Personal attack/Off topic
-
Originally posted by Bodhi
6 very close coworkers for my parent company died in the Trade Centers :(
AFIC, everyone of those terrorists deserves a horrible death... sadly, they probably won't becasue of people like you.
So, Russian children murdered holds less importance than your coworkers?
As i said, different situation you would hold a different view.
IMO killing of children is worse than killing ANY adult, at least an adult has had a chance to experience life.
-
Off topic
-
Off topic/Personal attack
-
Circumventing language filter
-
Originally posted by spitfiremkv
knowing the russian mindset, the response will probably be more airstrikes and shellings on whatever cities/villages/mudholse chechens still hold, the victimes being mainly women and children.
not justified, but under the circumstances understandable...
Get you rfacts right..before the Russians do those kind of strikes..Innocents are warned to get out..If they don't leave then it is their own fault.
-
Hey boroda question. Wouldn't Volgograd have atleast one Elite security division kinda thing?
BTW how far is it from Belsan to Volgograd roughly?
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Originally posted by Furball
wonder if all you "give them a fair trial kill them quickly" people would feel the same if it was one of your children murdered by a bomb surrounded by nails, bolts and whatever else they could find - simply to kill and maim as many as possible.
You may act all high, mighty and judicial now, but put you in a different situation and i am betting most or all of you would change your mind. These are real people murdered, not just numbers.
Would love to make those bastards pay for that as painfully as possible for the pain they have caused to those in russia.
Maybe the question is what drove them to do this? Maybe they themselves lost some kids, family members in Russian bombardment of their towns.
This is an escalation. You decide why. BTW, try not to look at "their" casualties as mere numbers, too.
Killing begets more killing. The side with the military might bombards and kills from a distance with their planes, helicopters, and artillery. The result is the same, innocent women, children, infants, and elders get killed.
Is that okay with you? Not me it isn't. The Russian school is retaliation from the other side that lost their's.
Cause and effect.
BTW, if it was my child killed, I'd want to personally kill all those responsible. I guess everyone feels that way.
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Originally posted by Furball
wonder if all you "give them a fair trial kill them quickly" people would feel the same if it was one of your children murdered by a bomb surrounded by nails, bolts and whatever else they could find - simply to kill and maim as many as possible.
You may act all high, mighty and judicial now, but put you in a different situation and i am betting most or all of you would change your mind. These are real people murdered, not just numbers.
Would love to make those bastards pay for that as painfully as possible for the pain they have caused to those in russia.
Furby,
Seeings that no one here has a ny children involved in this atrocity, I think that the whole statement is assinine, and allows you to try to come off as a better person by advocating the Russians act as bad as the terrorists...
Good idea... lets see if we can keep this circle of violence going for another 10 years!
-
Off topic
-
Originally posted by GScholz
This is exactly why we have a judicial system, so that the determination of guilt and punishment is taken away from people who are personally involved and might be under emotional distress. Feelings have no place in a court of justice.
Exactly
-
Off topic
-
Personal attack/Off topic
-
Personal attack/Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Personal attack/Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Flame bait
-
Don't stoop so low as to place yourself at the Terrorists level.
What they did was considered reprehensible by over 99% of the worlds' population.
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Personal attack/Off topic
-
Personal attack
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Personal attack
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Tie thier hands behind thier back.
Suspend them over a tank of water occupied by 2 or 3 5 foot tiger sharks.
Lower them to the point where they have to hold thier legs above the water to keep from getting eaten. Walk away.
That's a good one, but shouldn't it be:
Hands tied behind back over a 325 degree fire, where they have to use there leg muscles to keep from the "direct " heat....(pls note they are still smoking) untill tender...
or we can do em like a lamb shank, and put em front of the fire on a rope and spin em for awhile....maybe a liitle garlic..
If only BBQ kings could be torture agents....
:)
-
Temp is getting abit high here folks, play nice :)
-
I wonder if I'll have text on previous post that says
"innapropriate"
" last edited by skuzzy on 9/06/2004"
:)
-
Originally posted by Waffle BAS
Hands tied behind back over a 325 degree fire, where they have to use there leg muscles to keep from the "direct " heat....(pls note they are still smoking) untill tender...
Farenheit or celsius ?
I doubt it will stay tender very long at 325° celsius :D
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Personal attack
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Trying to understand something does not equate to justification of it. Hundreds of phychiatrists studied Ted Bundy. I'm pretty sure they weren't trying to justify mass murder.
Some of you guys need to take off the logic nullifying glasses.
-
Off topic
-
Personal attack/Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Personal attack/Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Off topic
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
Trying to understand something does not equate to justification of it. Hundreds of phychiatrists studied Ted Bundy. I'm pretty sure they weren't trying to justify mass murder.
Some of you guys need to take off the logic nullifying glasses.
All the more we need to see the underlying causes of tragic events and try to prevent similar situations from arising lest we want to see a repeat.
-
Originally posted by SaburoS
All the more we need to see the underlying causes of tragic events and try to prevent similar situations from arising lest we want to see a repeat.
Exactly his point SaburoS.
Not
-
i have the feeling if i type anything other than
off topic
i will be, off topic
-
i have a solution to satisfy both parties....
They get their "justice"... Lifetime in prison.... only its a turkish prison - they are not allowed to wear pants and their wrists are handcuffed to their ankles.
-
Originally posted by Habu
Exactly his point SaburoS.
Not
...and your "amazing" contribution to this thread is duly noted.
Perhaps you'd like to explain what MT meant by his quote and to whom he was addressing his post to?
Prediction: I will not be surprised by your answer.
-
Originally posted by SaburoS
...and your "amazing" contribution to this thread is duly noted.
Perhaps you'd like to explain what MT meant by his quote and to whom he was addressing his post to?
Prediction: I will not be surprised by your answer.
There is no "underlying cause" you can change to stop people like Ted Bundy.
-
habu... I am sure that howard stern has the answers for you if you will just listen to his wisdom.
lazs
-
Not that your comment has anything to do with the thread but I would rather listen to anything Howard Stern has to say as opposed to anything Rush Limbaugh says.
Laz you do not get how stupid the average US voter is. Howard will carry the vote in his markets. There are just not enough reasons not to vote against Bush.
-
Originally posted by Habu
There is no "underlying cause" you can change to stop people like Ted Bundy.
You sure MT really means that? I really doubt it.
So I take it you're an expert on Ted Bundy and every other serial murderer. So, why do they kill?
These terrorists that killed these kids in Russia had no underlying cause?
Ohoh! Alert Alert Alert! I'm asking questions about the attacks! I must somehow feel they are justified now! :rolleyes:
Remember that incident of the movie theater in Russia? You know the one where the Russians didn't negotiate? Everyone was killed. Did the terrorists learn their lessons? No, a bunch of innocent victims (mostly kids) are now dead. What's next?
Sometimes one has to go through a process of listening to the other side to at least try to see if something can be found to stop the hate. Something to at least slow down the cycle of violence.
Was the Grozny attack via artillery and bombing an accident? How many kids, women, babies, elders, men were killed in that one? Do they have a right to be upset about those casualties? Do you think even hatred and a call for revenge might result from those casualties?
So far from your posts here, I'd guess your answer to be "No."
-
SaburoS
May I ask you how old you are?
-
When children are the victims we all tend to be outraged and want the worst possible *punishment* for the perpetrators. Justice is what is required here, not revenge.
When it comes to terrorists the entire world needs to come together as one entity against terrorism. The entire world needs to cooperate to end this for good.
Those dead children in Russia, the 3000 dead from 9/11 and all the other victims of terrorists need to be remembered by all people, not just their families and countries.
-
Originally posted by Habu
SaburoS
May I ask you how old you are?
Off topic and irrelevant to this discussion, but do carry on as you wish.