Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: mechanic on September 03, 2004, 01:59:03 PM
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is it just me, or has the 'super furball' we used to see, and some of us loved in AH1 really and truly gone for good?
i know we have been itching for some more realistic scenarios and people always whine about 'furballs getting frustrating' and 'we need to simulate air combat, not just all pile into one big mass of death'. But, now that we are seeing these phenomina less and less frequently, do we really want to continue this way??
Its a fact for me that a good one on one is the most fun i can have as far as 'edge of my seat' fighting, but i miss the 'devil may care' attitude of the super furball.
gone are the days when i could climb to 5k and shoot right into the middle of a 50+ plane pile up. i didnt always enjoy this form of playing, but i did like the option of joining a death dance in the skies, with too many planes to keep my eyes on at once.
Granted, we would all die more often, but wouldnt we have more fun dying than just the same old alt monkeys VS TnB dweebs the whole time?
Maybe we have just lost too many players for a number of reasons (bad PCs and quiters) and therefore the numbers dont make enough for these giant maps we keep getting. So maybe we just need a small map for a week?
I dont know what the solution is, or even if there is actually something lacking, but i do know we had more chaos and mental pilots 6 months ago who were all ready to fight and die for the good of a ten minute adrenelin rush.
What do you all think?
is AH missing something in the programming and setup, or are the majority of pilots just wussies now?
still love it, still playing it. but its sure different from 6 months ago....
your opinions please.
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Speed has become the dominant factor in what makes a good fighter. The gunnery change has made getting close to the target more important and speed both enables fast closure rats and the ability to gain separation in order to survive.
In AH1 it was never clear why speed was such a big deal in WWII. In AH@, like WWII, speed is king.
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the Hord and gangbang is what i think is making people jump into super speed machines
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so maybe its more realistic, but is it more fun to have this speed dominace the whole time??
am i crazy, or were the 50+ plane pile ups a shed load of fun?
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Originally posted by Karnak
Speed has become the dominant factor in what makes a good fighter. The gunnery change has made getting close to the target more important and speed both enables fast closure rats and the ability to gain separation in order to survive.
In AH1 it was never clear why speed was such a big deal in WWII. In AH@, like WWII, speed is king.
actually that is very true.
havent seen anyone speak about AHII in that way, but thinking about it i have to agree totally. much more like WWII
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Originally posted by simshell
the Hord and gangbang is what i think is making people jump into super speed machines
Yeah, it's a vicious cycle.
I've been flying mostly BARCAP between bases lately (when I have any time to fly at all). This way I can bounce the horde rather than get caught on the deck by them. Usually take a good climber with decent guns like the 109s (with gondos, naturally), Dora or P-38.
My nephew is staying with us for his first semester at St. Jo's and he has been playing a bit..mostly doing the manned ack thing, beating up the hordes. The kid got about 100 ack kills in the last week of the August tour. He doesn't care much for flying, so he does the ack and GV game.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by JB73
actually that is very true.
havent seen anyone speak about AHII in that way, but thinking about it i have to agree totally. much more like WWII
Yes, as airplanes have evolved they have transitioned from tighter turning radii to faster overall speed and acceleration. Speed gives one the ability to dictate the terms of any engagement, specifically Where,when, if, how the fight occurs. Turning radius is primarily defensive in nature and against a faster plane is good for little more than denying the opponent an immediate gunnery solution. Even during WW1 the faster planes dominated, the German planes tended to be faster and more successfull as interceptors. This carried over into WW2, where the defining characteristic of a good fighter was it's top speed at various altitudes.
Turn performance has an importance in the game that it did not have to the same extent in real life largely because there is no real death. It was widely considered that protracted turning engagements were almost tantamount to suicide. In the large scale fighter engagements that were typical in WW2 (at least two wings of fighters meetings each other typically 35+ aircraft) it was considered only a matter of time before an opportunistic opponent caught a predictably turning enemy unaware and shot him down (what we refer to as cherry picking in AH). In the Pacific theater great success was had versus the Japanese almost exclusively using superior speed to manhandle the superior turning Japanese aircraft.
Zazen
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all true and valid points guys, thanks for the contributions.....
But...
is it as much fun?
maybe im just a TnB spit dweeb :)
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It's never been as much fun but I've always been more of a BnZer than TnBer. I am a control freak, I've always liked the power to choose when to fight and when I leave. Plus the helpless feeling people have vs BnZers is always fun.
My fighting style is a hybrid though, I've called it E-Fighting forever but that is really just BnZ. It's a mix of BnZ and TnB with lots of ropes.:P
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well when your squad is on mechanic and i fly to a base that is 2k high and i fly to it 10k just to see them about 13k norm or so in their little spit5's just to be gangbanged by them............its annoying but i usually try and turnfight unless its more than one spit5....................is that all your squad is allowed to fly is spit5? they need more of a challenge:)
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Originally posted by AWRaid
I've called it E-Fighting forever but that is really just BnZ. It's a mix of BnZ and TnB with lots of ropes.:P
If you think Energy Fighting is just Boom and Zooming you really need to do some research into fighter tactics. Start with "Fighter Combat: Tactics and Manuevering", by Robert Shaw. Saying Energy Fighting is just Boom and Zooming is like saying Turn and Burn Fighting is just a hard, flat break turn to the right.
Zazen
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Originally posted by 2shad4u
well when your squad is on mechanic and i fly to a base that is 2k high and i fly to it 10k just to see them about 13k norm or so in their little spit5's just to be gangbanged by them............its annoying but i usually try and turnfight unless its more than one spit5....................is that all your squad is allowed to fly is spit5? they need more of a challenge:)
No they can fly what they like, there are no rules or leadership hierachy.
SpitV IS a challenge against all the high alt pony/190/etc planes.
I really think its about time the arena lost the whole spit dweeb thing. afterall, as Karnac said, the game has become dominated by speed, IE: realism to WW2. dont know if you have noticed but a spitV can only just outrun a B26!
My squad do not need to gang bang and we all fly mainly the spitV because
A) we love it.
B) its what the real 71 squadron flew
C)we love it
and further more i think its more than a bit cheeky of you to say 'they need more of a challenge' considering you were a shade account vulcher yourself. was that challenging, vulching all those fake accounts? (http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif)
now i like you shad but even if your comments were made in jest, they fell on un humorous eyes tonight
Dweeb is the pilot not the plane, and my whole squad fights fair, with honour, and most importantly, without cheating to make their rank improve.
so have fun with whatever makes you happy, but dont ever critisize me or my squad for the plane we enjoy flying.
got that?
edit: maybe im over reacting here, sorry, but i hate the ignorance that condems the spitfires/LA-7s. these planes were at one point a nations pride, so why put them down because of their individual traits? if any plane is a dweeb plane its the ones suited to high alt/high speed/ high firepower. but i will not condem anyplane for its idiosyncrasies, i will only learn how best to kill one.
2shad im sorry for blowing up but that was below the belt, especially from you. and by if you mean that flying in a squadron flight of 4 or 5, and fighting as a unit is gangbanging, then i suggest you find a better squad.
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I didn't say E fighting and BnZ are the exact same. If you're so schooled in the art of ACMs then please explain the difference to an ignorant dweeb like myself.
The last part of that quote wasn't regarding what E-Fighting is it was me describing my fighting style. Sorry if that is part of the confusion.
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Originally posted by AWRaid
I didn't say E fighting and BnZ are the exact same. If you're so schooled in the art of ACMs then please explain the difference to an ignorant dweeb like myself.
The last part of that quote wasn't regarding what E-Fighting is it was me describing my fighting style. Sorry if that is part of the confusion.
Maybe, you meant you just BnZ? But called your BnZ'ing E-fighting? I dunno, sounded to me when I first read it that you were saying Energy fighting is just BnZ'ing. My mistake if that was not what you meant, carry-on... ;)
Zazen
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Mechanic I agree completely, where have they gone ??
My thesis paper for a masters degree in furball from a couple of years ago.
Fluid dynamics of a "good" furball
Ingrediants are dependent on arena density. That's why this crack smoker can't get a "good" fix on a Large map.
There self propagating but are dependent on chance. Arena density increases the "chance".
Along the lines of a tornado. The ingrediants have to be there, but the tornado might not appear. The way it's fed is similar.
Perfect example is the Isle map last week and the fur between A1 and A4.
A catogory 5 furball
All the ingrediants were present and it took place. Saw many a furball addict there that night
For some reason water increases the chances
Numbers have to be even, sliding back and forth but staying for the most part even.
What you end up with is a fluid front that fluctuates back and forth between bases. Outgoing planes at medium altitudes meet along the fluid front. PT boats below, Pickers coming in from both sides high being sucked down into it. Base takers continually come into the enemies base with altitude and drop in to base defenses. A "circulation" is created.
Those at the "front" are in the fur. Exits rearword are covered by incoming fighters. Exits to the sides can be used to regain altitude, but the "pickers" inhabit the sides.....waiting...
Getting too "deep" into the fur usually results in ones hair being set afire..... Safety is relatively close, but...being too deep causes the "pucker", the "edge", the nose print on the moniter..
Coming out the safe side with your hair on fire is the fix......
Screaming inches off the deck with tracers crossing your canopy, 3 or 4 in the bag, your hunched over the moniter on a furball high....Jeez the WEPs used up, missing a flap, the gear are gone, with an oil leak....Trying to get out...with a 51 closing, licking his chops sending presents your way..you scissor evade and a friendly makes him break off...
On final, the base takers are attacking, you come in hot, gently setting it oh so softly on it belly sliding down the runway scrambling for the clipboard to GET OUT BEFORE YOU DIE !!!
You made it
You take a breath..
Take off..
And do it again
Boring ???
BRUHAHAHAHAH !!
Like watching paint dry..
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Seeing this in PAC time also Mechanic , which used to be a good time for a fun fight.
totally overrun with 20K Bnzzzz cherrypicking hordes at the moment. Think it's a steamroller effect , the more that do it, the more that then up the same thing to try and counter it.
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sorry mechanic, but the furballs are there, i just had some exellent fights this week, real intance!
just keep looking for them, they are out there!
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Originally posted by 2shad4u
well when your squad is on mechanic and i fly to a base that is 2k high and i fly to it 10k just to see them about 13k norm or so in their little spit5's just to be gangbanged by them............its annoying but i usually try and turnfight unless its more than one spit5....................is that all your squad is allowed to fly is spit5? they need more of a challenge:)
lol 2shad , I have run into some gang banging, vulching hordes lately too .
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Originally posted by nopoop
Mechanic I agree completely, where have they gone ??
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A catogory 5 furball
All the ingrediants were present and it took place. Saw many a furball addict there that night
For some reason water increases the chances
Numbers have to be even, sliding back and forth but staying for the most part even.
Water means CV's, CV's bring early/mid planes, fun fights result .
The best possible fight around is 2 CV's going hell for leather.
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Bore and zoom fighting is making wide passes at a plane and extending for long periods until most of the time your opponent turns away or is jumped by someone else... then you dive back in and repeat. This generally sucks on all levels.
E fighting is using the superior E state of your plane (you don't have to be in a "faster" plane) to dictate the fight as you want, pretty much making the other guy your ***** as you do whatever you want to him. You can rope him, get above him, set up anything you want ang generally show him who's boss till you feel like putting him out of his misery. Big difference between the two though. E fighting is very aggressive, bore and zoom is the worst most boring gameplay possible.
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That exactly the response i was looking for Nopoop! excelent work!
love the thesis. an exact rendition of my own favorite way to die in AH. The bit about screaming home on the deck missing plane and body parts, tracers whistling over the canopy is just the ticket!
perfect!
I WANT ONE!
and Redd, you summed it up in two lines.
if i log on tonight and see another 190 or pony at 20k im going to cry.
I mean, fair enough, im not asking them to come down and engage in a sustained turn fight with a TnB plane, but at least give me something to avoid instead of just chasing you for hour untill my fuel runs out in the vain hope that you might actually want to kill something before you grow a beard.
If i am missing the furballs then just email me when one is happening PLEASE :)
DJhayze21@hotmail.com
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Originally posted by Stang
E fighting is using the superior E state of your plane (you don't have to be in a "faster" plane) to dictate the fight as you want, pretty much making the other guy your ***** as you do whatever you want to him.
You hit the nail on the head with that definition.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by mechanic
so maybe its more realistic, but is it more fun to have this speed dominace the whole time??
am i crazy, or were the 50+ plane pile ups a shed load of fun?
Batfink
Give the CT a try if you see a few logged on , not sure how it fits with your hours.
Icons and Dar are pretty close to or at MA settings
There's been some good fights in there. - you can even fly the spit 9 with the cool RAAF skin ;)
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The super furball is still alive and well, but sometimes you gotta look for it.
I just flew a fun sortie. Well, it was partially fun. I took off in a p-51D and went looking for a furball. Instead, I found a med alt yak chasing a fellow rook, and so I dove down and cleared his 6, but failed to get in a killing shot on the yak. Sooo... the yak and I went around and around for a long time. The yak was trying to use energy tactics, but I know how to play that game too. I maintained the offensive but couldn't get more than a ping or two. A enemy tempest then got in a ping on me, so I dove out of this med alt fight down into the low furball to try to escape the 2v1, since the yak driver was good enough that there was no way I'd be able to take on both of them. It was taking 100% of my attention fighting the yak and if I'd paid any attention to any other planes, he'd have gotten me very quickly.
To my suprise, the yak followed me down into the mess.
I cleared my 6 a bit, and then reversed and re-engaged the yak. I forced him to overshoot at the merge by bleeding some energy, and gained a small nose position advantage but was at an energy disadvantage, meaning that the only way to get a quick shot would be to accept an HO. I didn't want to do that, so I started working the yak's energy back down by pointing my nose to threaten but not pulling quite enough for the shot, and working my energy back up. This took quite some time, and I began to notice more red icons nearby... I figured I'd better try to finish this quick and took some high aspect (not HO) shots and got one or two more minor pings, but then SEjester blew through and took off my wing, ending the fight.
So... There are still furballs but the tougher gunnery changes the fight dynamic. I'm not a great shot by any stretch but you really gotta get a GOOD shot in when using mg instead of cannons otherwise the fight just drags on and on. Against a skilled opponent like whoever was driving that yak, sooner or later some dude in a cannon-sled is going to blow through and end the fight before you find out who's gonna win.
I never did find out who was in the yak... Ah well.
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Originally posted by 2shad4u
well when your squad is on mechanic and i fly to a base that is 2k high and i fly to it 10k just to see them about 13k norm or so in their little spit5's just to be gangbanged by them............its annoying but i usually try and turnfight unless its more than one spit5....................is that all your squad is allowed to fly is spit5? they need more of a challenge:)
We do need more of a challange...so stay away..and we'll get one.:rolleyes:
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That style of gameplay completely died with AH1. As mentioned above, speed is the name of the game. The furball if one ever appears is going to be dominanted by the alt monkies and really fast planes (elgay7, 109G10, etc) there is no question about it. it tkaes more effort and skill to get a kill in a pre 1942 plane. Also it might have something to do with fps, since it seems like almost everyone goes crazy when there fps get into the mid to low 20 and below.:confused: Personally im lucky to see above 5 in combat. and that is usually the time that i accutally end up getting a kill.
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I agree with Stang to an extent on his definition of BnZ versus E fighting. In essence though when you BnZ you are E fighting it just depends on what level of aggressiveness your taking it to. Your categorizing BnZ due to players that fly with a lack of agressiveness. Therefore in the end you isolate BnZ in one genre and E Fighting in another when in reality they are one in the same.
E fighting is using the superior E state of your plane (you don't have to be in a "faster" plane) to dictate the fight as you want, pretty much making the other guy your ***** as you do whatever you want to him. You can rope him, get above him, set up anything you want and generally show him who's boss till you feel like putting him out of his misery
In bold you can see you have basically described an agressive BnZ tactic using solid E management techniques. E management can be best described by looking at the rolling scissors fight (energy fighting in its purest form coupled with TnB). In the rolling scissors fight you can be the best turner but any lack of E management and your good as gone. Is this not the same thing that could happen in a BnZ scenario? Fail to retain enough energy so that you can regain potential energy and in the end do what to your BnZ fighting? So are you not in effect E fighting when you are BnZ fighting?
BnZ is a form of E management fighting though no matter how you look at it. Again it's just a matter of what level of agressiveness your taking your BnZ fighting to. Your categorizing BnZ and E fighting when in the end you need good E management to be affective and the BnZ. The only difference is that in scenarios such as the rolling scissors your using E management to the extreme, a little less BnZ, and coupling it with TnB (angles fighting). So in the end your actually using all forms of fighting(TnB, BnZ, and Energy Management) all in one type of fight, rolling scissors.
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Speed has become the dominant factor in what makes a good fighter. The gunnery change has made getting close to the target more important and speed both enables fast closure rats and the ability to gain separation in order to survive.
In AH1 it was never clear why speed was such a big deal in WWII. In AH@, like WWII, speed is king.
I agree with Karnak 100%
The whole thing started when gunnery became more realistic... which neutralized the 'long range gunnery' aspect of AH as seen in AH1.
Overall success rates of attack passes people make, have dropped down dramatically.
Since it is so much harder to hit a plane(at least for the general public), now, people are required to get in closer to shoot down an enemy plane.
Thus, in AH2, contrary to popular belief, there is actually a lot of maneuvering involved in a dogfight. The quality of fights are generally much higher in AH2 than AH1 IMO. Lot of fantatstic fights happen which you would never see in AH1, because you'd be shot down so early in AH1.
The problem is, this means that it takes longer time to kill something in AH2. The overall risk you are exposed to, due to chasing a certain plane around, has greatly increased.
So naturally, people start to prefer faster planes. This is totally in conjunction with the general logic of WW2 aircraft evolution - it is actually a much more realistic tendency than AH1.
Since you can't just snipe planes at 600 yards anymore(at least, for most people ) being in a fast plane really counts now.
In a fast plane, you can duke it out a bit, and still get away when the odds are bad - as long as you are fast enough to keep most of the slower planes further than just 400 distance marker, it is highly likely you'll return alive(even unscathed in some situations). In a fast plane, you can catch other fast planes running away, too.
However, in a slow plane.. you can twist and turn all day long.. but you'll almost never get a kill anymore. Look at all those excellent Japanese pilots moving over to La-7s, Yaks and Typhoons!(this is true!).
In AH1, being in a slow plane didn't matter as long as you flew smart. The unrealistic aspect of gunnery still rewarded you heftily. Just keep a little alt in a furball, and by the time you reach deck you are scoring 3~4 kills.
But in AH2, the realistic gunnery dragged in the iron laws of realistic plane choices into gameplay. Fly smart or dumb or whatever you want - being in a slow plane, just doesn't pay anymore! Some renowned aces like Leviathan and co. still fly SpitVs. But for the general masses, the popularity of Spits and N1K2s are in a constant decline. (except the SpitV, which is still considered one of the best base-defense planes. In this role you don't necessarily have to kill much. All you have to do is survive long enough to buy time.)
Like I said above, the dogfights of AH2, is actually much more exciting than AH1. But this also means it's much more harder. So, what do people do when they can't handle the dogfights? They rely on better planes.
Voila - there you have it.
The furballs of AH1 consisted of massive numbers of Spits and Nikis at low altitudes. At mid to high altitudes were the more faster fighters. It was a gigantic, chaotic all-out battle.
The furballs of AH2, is now almost entirely made up of La-7s, P-51s, Typhoons, 190D-9s, 109G-10s. It is actually a rare thing to see a N1K or a Spitfires now. Today, during the 4 hour period of game playing at all fronts, I've seen total two N1K2s. Handful of base-defending SpitVs at low alts. All the rest I've seen are P-51s and La7s, Fw190D-9s.
.....
I think this is actually a good thing.
The MA of late, is undeniably a total-late-war arena. Something resembling late '44~'45.
This problem always existed even in AH1, but most people never actually felt it as a problem until now. Now, it is flaring up.
ps) (whispers) so.. support the NPA!
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I think you and I would get along quite well Mechanic...
:D
By the way NoPoop, I loved that piece of work on furballs :aok :D
Make way for Aces High philosophy!
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Well its not strange that there arnt any big fights when things like what happened last night happen.
Bishops are hoarding at a base with virtually no fighting. When I ask why they all hang there the response is "To voulch".
I head over to another base which is under attack and has requested help. I come there and its launchable and the resistance is there but not kickin the enemy home. We needed just 3-5 more pilots to get the fight going big time. When I ask why people dont come and help out the response is "The base is beeing over ran".
There are never gonna be any good fights if people cant fight bad odds or organize them selfs to even them up.
Btw Im a rook now.
Tex
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Originally posted by Paul33
I think you and I would get along quite well Mechanic...
:D
By the way NoPoop, I loved that piece of work on furballs :aok :D
Make way for Aces High philosophy!
we already did trying to fly through those stupid ground tunnels in the DA remember :)
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Well its not strange that there arnt any big fights when things like what happened last night happen.
Bishops are hoarding at a base with virtually no fighting. When I ask why they all hang there the response is "To voulch".
I head over to another base which is under attack and has requested help. I come there and its launchable and the resistance is there but not kickin the enemy home. We needed just 3-5 more pilots to get the fight going big time. When I ask why people dont come and help out the response is "The base is beeing over ran".
There are never gonna be any good fights if people cant fight bad odds or organize them selfs to even them up.
Btw Im a rook now.
Tex
exactly tex!
i watched in disgust a few nights ago as 30 or 40 planes were attacking a single undefended base.
maybe we should be alocated bases for each squad, and if you lose your base then........
oh i dont know, but something needs to be done.
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mechanic i didnt vulch an acct i was the acct get it through your head already and i wasnt saying they need more of a challenge in a bad way see the ":) ".........................and i didnt mean gangbang like that since it is a few squadies winging up
so why put them down because of their individual traits? if any plane is a dweeb plane its the ones suited to high alt/high speed/ high firepower.
and sorry again for making you think i called a spit5 a dweeb plane but i dont recall saying that since i fly a la7 sometimes and a spit5 when it is a low furball near a base..................and i understand you like a spit5 and i have no problem with that and i did not critisize me or my squad for the plane we enjoy flying
i think you just misinterpruted my text, i think i spelled the big M word wrong but its ok...........................
take the if you want but did not mean for you to take my text the wrong way like that sorry:) :)
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no problem shad, i took it wrong then, but i dont like to see a pesonal attack to my squad members.
insult me, fine.
dont insult the wonderfull bunch of pilots that it is my honour to fly and die with.
appology accepted.
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There are still furballs, just not the wild "devil may care" ones that we used to have. Lets face it, the huge furballs are for non skilled fighters. They dive in fully expecting to die, just wondering how many they can take with them. This is also why you see the "dweeb planes" in them..the spits, La's and niks. Not that there is anything wrong with these planes or the people who fly them, but they are the easier of the planes to fly and the newer and non-skilled pilots do gravitate to them.
What may have happened is when AH2 went live alot of people couldn't make the jump due to computers not being good enough. Those of us that could upgraded, those kids that couldn't didn't, or they have gone back to school.
So what I think your seeing is the more serious people are flying, and that ussually means people looking to kill with-out being killed. So the more leathal planes that can get you out of trouble are the ones you see, and those don't lend well to furballing.
For the record I hate furballs, mostly because I hate dieing. I fly this game just for the trill of a good 1 on 1 or a 1 on 2. Not that I'm all that "skilled" either, but that's my game. I have trouble finding a good fight.... just too many furballs out there! :D
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lol
so there is a flip side to this coin, those who still think we have to much furballing and not enough good 1vs1 fights.
personally i like to think i am of a reasonable skill level, but i still love the furball
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I'm sure there are some very skilled players that like to furball, but like I said "most" of the people in furballs are not, its the only fight they get a kill in. no slight intended, I hope non was taken.
It just seems to me that there are less of the "younger crowd" for what ever reason, and this is why I think the furballs are down to 30 planes instead of the 50+ plane furballs of old.
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Originally posted by nopoop
Mechanic I agree completely, where have they gone ??
My thesis paper for a masters degree in furball from a couple of years ago.
Fluid dynamics of a "good" furball
Ingrediants are dependent on arena density. That's why this crack smoker can't get a "good" fix on a Large map.
There self propagating but are dependent on chance. Arena density increases the "chance".
Along the lines of a tornado. The ingrediants have to be there, but the tornado might not appear. The way it's fed is similar.
Perfect example is the Isle map last week and the fur between A1 and A4.
A catogory 5 furball
All the ingrediants were present and it took place. Saw many a furball addict there that night
For some reason water increases the chances
Numbers have to be even, sliding back and forth but staying for the most part even.
What you end up with is a fluid front that fluctuates back and forth between bases. Outgoing planes at medium altitudes meet along the fluid front. PT boats below, Pickers coming in from both sides high being sucked down into it. Base takers continually come into the enemies base with altitude and drop in to base defenses. A "circulation" is created.
Those at the "front" are in the fur. Exits rearword are covered by incoming fighters. Exits to the sides can be used to regain altitude, but the "pickers" inhabit the sides.....waiting...
Getting too "deep" into the fur usually results in ones hair being set afire..... Safety is relatively close, but...being too deep causes the "pucker", the "edge", the nose print on the moniter..
Coming out the safe side with your hair on fire is the fix......
Screaming inches off the deck with tracers crossing your canopy, 3 or 4 in the bag, your hunched over the moniter on a furball high....Jeez the WEPs used up, missing a flap, the gear are gone, with an oil leak....Trying to get out...with a 51 closing, licking his chops sending presents your way..you scissor evade and a friendly makes him break off...
On final, the base takers are attacking, you come in hot, gently setting it oh so softly on it belly sliding down the runway scrambling for the clipboard to GET OUT BEFORE YOU DIE !!!
You made it
You take a breath..
Take off..
And do it again
Boring ???
BRUHAHAHAHAH !!
Like watching paint dry..
NOPOOP , that's a way-cool post !
I think my fellow Squady Adios, ( `SeaSerpents`) put it best one evening afew years ago, during a really big, exciting, Furball Dogfight that we were in, " There is nothing more fun than coming out this with a hat full of scalps and a Con's bloody liver sliding off my canopy " ..... RR PAC AW MV ....
CHECKERS
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Originally posted by MaddogJoe
Lets face it, the huge furballs are for non skilled fighters
Say it isn't so MJ.
KW hit the nail on the head and there is a great irony in what is put forth. In AH1 the main problem of using an early war fighter was the fuel porkage. With 25% the early war rides were parked in favor of those planes with range at low fuel.
The catagory 5 furball of AH1 consisted of mostly early war rides. With porkage the CV battle was the best chance for one to spring up towards the end.
Adjustments to fuel have been made. The irony is that even though adjustments were made to bring them back, the FM and gunnery of AHII have made them definate hanger queens for the masses.
Would I change anything ?? Definately not. The FM's and gunnery rock.
The most fun sortie I've ever had was in AHII. I wish I'd filmed the fuggin thing. The little fur is still out there. The planes have changed but you can find a good little fight.
Maybe some night I'll log on and see a Catagory 5 brewing. But I don't really think so. That's sad, they were a blast.
But I don't want to go back.
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maddog joe, of course no offence taken.
maybe it was the 80% population of noobs in a furball that made it fun for the more experienced online flight dweebs. :)
i live in hope for a catagory 5......
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Huge furballs are for pilots with high situation awarness and good flying skills.
1v1 duels favour the pilots with best aim and flying skills.
Furballs trade aim for situation awarness.
Its just that different situations require different skill sets.
Tex
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It's kind of funny how the people who suck the worst in furballs are always the one saying derogatory things about those who find them fun. To them, a furball is just a way to get killed because they lack the situational awareness, skills, and patience required to be successful.
Take Drex for example... Half the time he's at the bottom of the biggest nastiest furball, just racking up kill after kill. Not too many people say he lacks talent, and some of the best flights I've ever had in the game were either finding drex over and over in a furball because we both have very distinctive fighting styles, or winging with him and landing 10-15 kills between the two of us.
Those who like furballs are pretty tolerant of different flying styles and gameplay, so I wonder what it is about furballs that make it so a few people really attack anyone who says they like them. Is it fear/shame? Or is it because it just doesn't match their idea of how the arena war should go? Regardless of their reasoning, they tend to be rather derogatory whenever the subject comes up, and it sure makes me wonder if they're just blabbering because they're ashamed they can't handle it.
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it sure makes me wonder if they're just blabbering because they're ashamed they can't handle it.
Yup, they can't handle it :lol
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eagl, I don't know if your talking about my post, as I'm one of the few that said I didn't like furballs, but in no place was I being derogatory nor did I intend to. I was just pointing out what I belived may be a cause to the smaller furballs. In no part of the post did I say they should try to remove furballs nor did I attack any one for liking furballs.
Furballs are part of the game, just as ground vehicles and bomber runs. For being one " who like furballs and are pretty tolerant of different flying styles and gameplay" you seemed pretty quick to jump when you "thought" someone was being derogatory to your style of flying.
Sorry if I offended your sense of "rightness" with the game, but you fly like you will, and I'll fly like I like and we can both have fun
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Originally posted by mechanic
we already did trying to fly through those stupid ground tunnels in the DA remember :)
Ahh yes! That was you?! Haha! <>
Those would have been real fun if they worked. (I think HTC got lazy one day)
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Originally posted by eagl
Those who like furballs are pretty tolerant of different flying styles and gameplay, so I wonder what it is about furballs that make it so a few people really attack anyone who says they like them. Is it fear/shame? Or is it because it just doesn't match their idea of how the arena war should go? Regardless of their reasoning, they tend to be rather derogatory whenever the subject comes up, and it sure makes me wonder if they're just blabbering because they're ashamed they can't handle it.
It's because the aggressive nature of a furballer naturally tweaks the sensabilities of the limp wristed Rainbow Warrior, or as x2Lee used to say, The Runny Bunnies.
ack-ack
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maddogjoe,
For every one like you who can hold a sensible discussion, there are a dozen more who rarely hesitate to throw the insults.
Do a search on the bbs for "furball" and you'll see who the perps are. Or just ask lazs and he can probably tell ya :)
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i hate furballs. to many of im going to kill my self wee attitudes. i prefer to fight someone who would rather want to live than die.
the entertaining thing that came from furballs was the whines about fuel porkage.
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Originally posted by Stang
Yup, they can't handle it :lol
and you can talk? you are the biggest cherry picker known o AH! WE MUST NEVAR FORGET THE HURR2D!
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Where'd they go? Easy.....The Horde ain't the horde anymore. We're all flyin' around in Spit 1's, Eny > 25. While the others cherry-pick us in 51D's, 109s, 190's and 262's.
Why not ask da Mans? Ahhh well a few more graduating classes get out of High School and we might be able to have some fun again.
Eny sucks!
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
i prefer to fight someone who would rather want to live than die
It's a misconception that furballers don't want to live.
An analogy might be akin to slowing to 35mph like the sign says when approaching a turn in the road. Some people like to go through the turn at 55mph and see what shakes out.
Furballers enjoy living probably more than those that don't take that chance of getting in alittle deep.
They just enjoy trying to live in a much more stressful and dangerous envirement. I know when I fight my way out of a situation that was getting down right ugly and lay rubber on concrete with one or two in the bag it "means" something to me for some reason.
My most memorable sortie in flightsims ( six years worth ) resulted in my death with one kill. But that two or three minutes all alone down on the deck with five or six guys making runs was an edge that I had never achieved. Doin the Levi thing except I can't shoot :). Pinged a bunch, killed one. Will never forget it. That would never happen if I went into that curve at 35mph ;)
If my goal was to always live at any cost, I wouldn't find that hard. Done that. But there is no "edge" to that. I enjoy that "edge".
But then again I'm from the land of odd..
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Originally posted by nopoop
It's a misconception that furballers don't want to live.
I don't think that is how I would label a furballer, its more like a furballer doesn't mind dieing. I hate dieing. If I die, I did something wrong, and I hate being wrong, its a vicious circle LOL!
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Originally posted by MaddogJoe
I hate dieing. If I die, I did something wrong, and I hate being wrong, its a vicious circle LOL!
So in that you make sure your in a position where your chances of doing something wrong are minimized. Interesting point worthy of discussion.
At what level of experience does a pilot decide, ok...I don't want to die any more ?? I'm going to do everything in my power to live, make sure that regardless..I'm going to land.
It must be a plateau of some sort. A point where taking chances, or pushing your luck is something no longer done. What determines that ?
I see noobies fly in that fashion. Did they reach that "point" early in their flightsim experience ??
I reached that point and flew to live in a 190 for a couple of years or so over the hill. I found that personally I stagnated as a pilot. I didn't learn anything. Nada. Zip. I never left my comfort zone. The more I "worried" about living the SMALLER my comfort zone became. It got to the point that seeing a co-alt dot meant turning off angle and grabbing altitude. Don't want to engage without the advantage ;) I ceased to have fun.
What's interesting is that while not having fun I was doing quite well as far as the measure provided ingame used to determine a "good" pilot.
Granted I finally found that my "makeup" was not condusive to that type of flying. I regressed instead of improving. Got pissed at myself instead of having fun.
The first couple of months here I put myself under people so I could get the timing of ingame lag down for breaks. Took awhile to learn.
Once I learned it I found to my surprise that I was having fun flying in the middle of it, started expanding the envelope once again. Took everything I learned and went back on top..
Realized very quickly I had much more fun down there in the middle of it.
Much to my surprise, I had become a furballer. I continually bite off more than I can chew.
And in the ingame measure used here to determine a "good" pilot.
I suck :D
Thems the breaks
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first let me state I don't think I'm any where near the top of anyones list as a "good pilot" I'd be surprised if I was on a list! LOL!!
On the other hand I don't run from fights. 1 vs 1, 1 vs 2, heck I'll even give a 1 vs 3 a shot... as long as ALL 3 arn't above me, I got to have the advantage on one guy at least :)
I don't think its a "level of experiance" that signals when you fly to live, but just a way to play the game... well in my case it is anyway. I know my limitations, and and in a fuball, while I, and most pilots I believe will get a number of kills, there are always those "furballs aces" that make their living taking out furballers.
I've only flown AH a couple of years, so I'm still a realitive "newbie" when it comes to flying, but as of now I'm the bait, not the hunter when it comes to furballs. Some day I may be good enough to survive a furball at which time I'll enjoy them I'm sure, untill then I'll cruise around the outside looking for that guy that wants a 1 on 1 before he gets to the furball :)