Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Zazen13 on September 03, 2004, 04:28:30 PM
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Ok, here it is, by popular demand, the key, the secret, the way to consistantly kill at high deflection in an Ostwind. I post this for one reason and one reason only. To make vulching, which is just spawn camping planes with planes, as unpleasant an experience as possible and totally non-viable as a method to pad fighter scores.
Firstly, there's a couple of things to note, always park your Ostwind on concrete somewhere. Secondly, always have your clipboard open and your mouse cursor on the Tower button so you can end mission quickly if you hear ordnance about to plop on your head. Thirdly, learn where to park your Ostwind, in AH2 there's two main places to park it, near the Fighter Hangers, but not too near and near the tower on a small field or near the nexus of runways at a medium or large field for vulcher slaying. In some situations you may not want to park at all, such as when there are no friendly aircraft to amuse the vulchers, in this situation go up and down the runways in 5th gear maintaining a straight line path to make compensating for your own movement as easy as possible.
As far as aiming goes, the core principle is rather simple, some may have already heard me state it. Always fire fully zoomed in. While fully zoomed in a target travelling roughly parallel or perpendicular to the ground at a range of 1k will be hit if kept exactly at the edge of your screen. Therefore a target 500 away should be kept halfway from the edge of your screen to your crosshair. This is the basis for all shots. Now shots off angle you must judge by the aircraft's attitude, speed and size as to how much extra or less to lead it relative to the base amount, always leading in the direction of the target plane's nose. Always lead your target slightly more than you think you should and slightly above to allow for shell drop, and keep your turret swivel motion as smooth and fluid as possible. On large targets and slower than average targets lead a little less, on small and fast targets lead a little more.
Another thing to realize, while an Ostwind shell can technically kill at distances approaching 3k, never ever fire over 1.5k for one simple reason. The smoothing code or whatever, does an adjustment at 1.5k, you will notice a small burp or hiccup in the planes position, so at distances over 1.5k you are not actually seeing the plane where it really is. You'll notice this effect on bombers, it is espeically pronounced with the drones in a formation. I almost never shoot beyond 1.2k on anything that isn't just coming directly at or away from me. The 1k distance is really where you want to be firing, it's the key to accurate deflection shooting in the Ostwind.
To sum this up really simply:
1k away = target at the edge of your visible screen.
750 away = target is 3/4s of the distance from crosshair to edge.
500 away = halfway from your crosshair to the edge of screen.
250 = 1/4 the distance from your crosshair to the edge.
This only works if you are Fully Zoomed in! (of course you do your scanning un-zoomed) I also recommend being fully Page-Up'd by default.
Hope this helps! Death to vulchers!
Zazen
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Why the big deal about denying the enemy a kill on you? Isn't it more impartant to keep shooting for as long as possible?
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" /.ef " seems faster than clicking. :)
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because it makes you more of a sweetheart if you deny the enemy a kill.:P
Instant tower should be removed totally.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Why the big deal about denying the enemy a kill on you? Isn't it more impartant to keep shooting for as long as possible?
I enjoy denying the enemy a kill almost as much as killing him, if it's not important to you that you get wacked, don't worry about it. ;) The whole idea is to make the would-be vulcher/porker's existence as miserable as you possibly can. Seducing him into dumping his ordnance on you only to have you vanish and deny him a kill furthers that agenda. ;) It especially irritates him when you 'vanish' and land 7 of his freshly killed squadmate's pelts in the process. ;) It's all about giving the vulching bastidges the 'middle-finger', that is why I nickname my Ostwind, "The Angry Middle Finger of God" (the gun kinda looks like an extended finger).:aok
Zazen
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Oh, I'll do all I can to avoid being killed, but I stop short of using (abusing?) game mechanisms to rob the enemy of a fairly earned kill.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Oh, I'll do all I can to avoid being killed, but I stop short of robbing the enemy of a fairly earned kill.
Like the fairly earned kills he's getting on your teammates as they spawn at predictable places and before they can even taxi down the runway?
Zazen
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That is part of the game. If they don't try to take off of a base that is fully capped they won't pad his score. In order to take a base and still have it useable for offensive operations the attackers must supress the ability to take off without destroying the FHs.
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If its in the game...its in the game.
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Originally posted by Karnak
That is part of the game.
The point is, denying him the kill by ending mission and disappearing magically is as valid as him getting a kill by shooting a plane that magically appears at a predetermined spot out of thin air. It's all within the design of the game. It's ludicrous to just sit there as he places an egg on your head when you have another option.
Zazen
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Do you think that bailing out of bombers before the fighter can get to you is fine?
How about pulling your modem/network line so as to disco?
Why not? It is the same action.
Do whatever you like, but I reserve the right to think it silly and gamey.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Do you think that bailing out of bombers before the fighter can get to you is fine?
How about pulling your modem/network line so as to disco?
Why not? It is the same action.
Do whatever you like, but I reserve the right to think it silly and gamey.
Playing with your modem line is different, that is not accomodated by the user interface of the game. That is manipulating your hardware to circumnavigate the game controls and avoid an undesirable outcome. Bailing in bombers however, still awards the kills to the pursuer and is legitimate although stupid when you can man your guns instead, the only thing the pursuer would not get is perk points.
I checked your statistics, you have 1 kill in an Ostwind in 5 tours, with very little total time played (you've played only 26 hours in the last 6 months! or just over 4 Hrs/Month only 1 hour a week!) So, I doubt any of this has alot to do with you or how you play (or don't play) anyways. This post was geared more toward those who hate vulchers and porkers and enjoy field defense, like myself.
Zazen
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Sorry, I dozed off after 'OK...'
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Originally posted by Chortle
Sorry, I dozed off after 'OK...'
You haven't flown in two months, one would think even you'd be bored enough to read it. ;)
Zazen
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Zazen,
Bailing from the bomber only awards a kill if you wait until the fighter is too close. I have had B-17 pilots bail as I closed and got no kill. It was at high alt and had just entered friendly airspace so I doubt it had been hit by another player and if it had bailing would have made no sense.
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Hehe :)
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Thanks for the aiming advice, Zazen13. For each update in Aces High, one of my benchmarks is how the acks do. It's always a brawl between attacker and defender, but lately I think the defenders are somehow handicapped.
I fancy myself a good shot, including with real guns and other simulations like skeet shooting. But now attackers can fly straight down my ack barrels and I rarely get a single hit whether with 37mm or 50 cal (5-inchers are better, but still not as lethal as before).
You're right on about leading being crucial. I still get framerates in the 30s to 50s, and I've been making sure I understand the vysnch On bit too.
I'm glad you're having such ack success. I look forward to eventually working through my shooting slump somehow.
Regarding your expedited exits, I don't take getting zapped that personally. The poor plane worked awfully hard to get to me, so if its ordnance finds me first, no problem.
Cyber makes us all crazy.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Oh, I'll do all I can to avoid being killed, but I stop short of using (abusing?) game mechanisms to rob the enemy of a fairly earned kill.
What else do you expect from a dweeb other than dweeb tactics? He cries about people padding their score but he's basically doing the same thing in keeping the deaths from ruining his score.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
What else do you expect from a dweeb other than dweeb tactics? He cries about people padding their score but he's basically doing the same thing in keeping the deaths from ruining his score.
ack-ack
Has nothing to do with score, I could care less about my vehicle score. I just hate to give the enemy a kill. ;) AKAK's just afraid this will ruin his little late night vulch fest he's got going on. ;)
Zazen
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Originally posted by Karnak
Zazen,
Bailing from the bomber only awards a kill if you wait until the fighter is too close. I have had B-17 pilots bail as I closed and got no kill. It was at high alt and had just entered friendly airspace so I doubt it had been hit by another player and if it had bailing would have made no sense.
I've never not gotten credit from a bailer so long as I was within the 6k icon range. Maybe he had been plinked already? I don't know. As I said, I don't understand why a bomber would bail with guns to man, unless the guns were shot out or ammoless.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Like the fairly earned kills he's getting on your teammates as they spawn at predictable places and before they can even taxi down the runway?
Zazen
I don't know about you Zaz, but my squad is smart enuff not to up at fields that are being vulched, we fall back one sector and fly in with altitude.
Anyone dumb enough to keep upping to get vulched isn't smart enough to operate an osti anyhow.
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Thanks Zazen for the tips. I was never any good at hitting things with an Ostie. I'll give your suggestions a try.
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Originally posted by KurtVW
Anyone dumb enough to keep upping to get vulched isn't smart enough to operate an osti anyhow.
It's whatever floats your boat. Upping from a vultched field can in some cases be a whole lot of fun.
But then again I've been passed over for promotion many times..
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I am not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone but:
Karnak
just out of curiosity, if you were landing from a 5 kill mission in your mossie, and just as you come to a halt on the runway you notice an enemy plane coming down to drop a bomb, or just simply gun vulch you, would you:
A) exit via tower as fast as you could to avoid being killed and losing your kills.
B) slowly and carefully taxi to a hanger, hang up your flying kit, then take a stroll round the airfeild to take in the evening air.
in essance what Zazen is saying is not as gamey as you might think, the place to land an osti or pnsr is on the tarmac, so therefore if you are fighting from the tarmac it makes you a bit of a wussie, but no more gamey than the next man should you decide to hit the tower at any point.
personally i fly till i die, but thats only my way of enjoying the game.
It must be said that Zazen is infact the best osti shooter i have come across recently, and all i see here is someone trying to help others to gain more skill.
I dont see a need to burn him like this even if you think he is a dweeb.
and to Zazen:
you bastage dweeb osti monkey! lost me 4 kills yesterday damn you!
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Okay - (Chortle did I lose you already!?)
How to kill osti's that are preventing you from vulching.
When the osti is zoomed in on your buddy preparing to do his hard earned vulching approach osti from opposite direction and drop 2X1000lbers on him. Sit back and relish the explosion in all its glory. When the osti re-spawns and blows your hind-quarters to kingdom come you can curse yourself for not hitting the VH instead.
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Originally posted by mechanic
I am not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone but:
Karnak
just out of curiosity, if you were landing from a 5 kill mission in your mossie, and just as you come to a halt on the runway you notice an enemy plane coming down to drop a bomb, or just simply gun vulch you, would you:
A) exit via tower as fast as you could to avoid being killed and losing your kills.
B) slowly and carefully taxi to a hanger, hang up your flying kit, then take a stroll round the airfeild to take in the evening air.
in essance what Zazen is saying is not as gamey as you might think, the place to land an osti or pnsr is on the tarmac, so therefore if you are fighting from the tarmac it makes you a bit of a wussie, but no more gamey than the next man should you decide to hit the tower at any point.
personally i fly till i die, but thats only my way of enjoying the game.
It must be said that Zazen is infact the best osti shooter i have come across recently, and all i see here is someone trying to help others to gain more skill.
I dont see a need to burn him like this even if you think he is a dweeb.
and to Zazen:
you bastage dweeb osti monkey! lost me 4 kills yesterday damn you!
Good point, however, I think what Zazen is doing is gamey. And then again, so is every dang thing that we do in AH. That's why it’s a game. It’s designed to be a game, and to be played as a game. .EF before the bomb hits and you win. Let the bomb kill you and you lose. It’s pretty simple. If someone gets a bigger kick out of getting bombed to smithereens, that’s fine too.
In the end, we tend to see ourselves as noble knights of the sky; our wives, kids, co-workers and friends, however, see us as computer dorks who play “airplane”.
They are right you know.
eskimo
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Originally posted by mechanic
you bastage dweeb osti monkey! lost me 4 kills yesterday damn you!
Thanks, mechanic and sorry. The Ostwind has become far more difficult in AHII than it was in AH1, in AHI a post of this nature was not necessary. But, I know from my own squadmates that alot of people are having no success with the Ostwind since we changed to AHII. I have always been quite successfull in the Ostwind but had to make adjustments when we switched to AHII from AHI to maintain that success.
In WW2 75% of all aircraft lost was a result of ground-fire. In AHI we were probably close to that figure all things considered, just judging by Ostwind and field gunner kill totals and guessing at AI controlled ack deaths. In AHII however, the kill totals for Ostwinds and field gunners took a giant nose dive. This has had the effect of dropping those realistic ground-fire deaths to a very unrealistic level and also made the overwhelming and vulching of fields far safer and more lucrative from a 'scoring' point of view. It just stands to reason that if the vulcher is punished less for getting low and slow over enemy airfields he will continue that activity longer than one who is punished repeatedly for doing so.
Zazen
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pu55y!!!1
Up a gv and die like a man.
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Originally posted by KurtVW
I don't know about you Zaz, but my squad is smart enuff not to up at fields that are being vulched, we fall back one sector and fly in with altitude.
Anyone dumb enough to keep upping to get vulched isn't smart enough to operate an osti anyhow.
While I personally agree with you to some extent Kurt, I for one would never up from a field even close to being CAP'd. The fact remains alot of people, including skilled pilots such as nopoop have no quams about doing so in the interest of mounting a vigorous field defense.
There are also situations that call for the use of the Ostwind that does not necessarily involve the protection of a field vs. vulchers per se. Such as a large, organized raid and situations where two fields are relatively close together and a furball ensues whereby the ebb and flow of battle has brought the enemy contingent very close to your airfiled. I can't tell you the number of Rooks that were able to land kills they probably would not have otherwise been able to simply because I was there in an Ostwind to clear the pursuers off them. Then of course there's the high level porker/vulcher who overflies your own field CAP to drop his load on the field and vulch a few before his inevitable death. A skilled Ostwind sniper can kill those types before they even get to drop, much less vulch.
Zazen
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ZAZ, I'm not faulting you for makint the original post... I appreciated the info...
I just think its funny that vulching is an on going debate here, since the victim ALWAYS makes the choice to try to fly from a capped base..
'The game engine should protect me from my poor decisions... Why do I keep dieing? I'm too stupid to change!!! waaaaa!!!"
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HAHAHAHAHAHA
He's calling you a whiney stupid person.
Is he right?
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Good Info , thanks
Question- Do you page up all the way and save head position?
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so it is now gamey to bail befor you die and save the death of yourself and deny the victory to the enemy?
Wow this being cool thing is a weird moving target.
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Good post Zazen!
We used to be the Knights "anti-vulch" squad.
If it's your field, protect it !
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Originally posted by Cooley
Good Info , thanks
Question- Do you page up all the way and save head position?
Yes, permanently page up the view so the protective side panel graphical does not obscure your view of the target travelling parallel to the ground as much.
Zazen
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Originally posted by KurtVW
ZAZ, I'm not faulting you for makint the original post... I appreciated the info...
I just think its funny that vulching is an on going debate here, since the victim ALWAYS makes the choice to try to fly from a capped base..
'The game engine should protect me from my poor decisions... Why do I keep dieing? I'm too stupid to change!!! waaaaa!!!"
NO, the "game engine" shouldn't protect you, squadmates & countrymen should!
We did it all the time.
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Anyone dumb enough to keep upping to get vulched isn't smart enough to operate an osti anyhow.
This was pretty much my position, until last night. Thought to hell with it - nits not getting 28 without a fight. Boy, we held that field (isolated from bishland) for 5 hrs straight and were still going strong when I had to call it a night. I have to say it was the most fun I've had in months. I feared the game was getting stale, but all that's needed was a slight attitude adjustment; as the man says "frankly my dear, I don't give a.... ". Getting a wheels down plane kill - easy: getting up from a vulched base and taking a few of the buggers with you - priceless.
Thanks for the aiming tips Zazen.
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In the end, we tend to see ourselves as noble knights of the sky; our wives, kids, co-workers and friends, however, see us as computer dorks who play “airplane”.
:lol Oh so true
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Originally posted by Darkish
This was pretty much my position, until last night. Thought to hell with it - nits not getting 28 without a fight. Boy, we held that field (isolated from bishland) for 5 hrs straight and were still going strong when I had to call it a night. I have to say it was the most fun I've had in months. I feared the game was getting stale, but all that's needed was a slight attitude adjustment; as the man says "frankly my dear, I don't give a.... ". Getting a wheels down plane kill - easy: getting up from a vulched base and taking a few of the buggers with you - priceless.
Thanks for the aiming tips Zazen.
There really are hundreds of ways to “win” in this game. If you had fun last night defending and getting some quick action, then you won.
eskimo
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i use my curser as my sight.
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Thanks for the info Zazen. Maybe it will improve my dismal aim.
As for upping at a CAPPED field. I loved upping a Spit when Moils' LTAR were there. Some of the most fun I had in the game.
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Originally posted by Easyscor
Thanks for the info Zazen. Maybe it will improve my dismal aim.
As for upping at a CAPPED field. I loved upping a Spit when Moils' LTAR were there. Some of the most fun I had in the game.
Yup, people don't mind upping when they see me at the field in the Ostwind, because they know how to 'use' me. Nine times out of ten anyone who attempts to vulch them is going to die. At the very least they are given a fighting chance to get their wheels up and some manuevering E. If alot of people became proficient in the use of the Ostwind, fights near fields would take on an entirely different complexion. No more would the focus be on overwhelming the base and making vulching passes at the take-off spots, as that would surely be fatal. Overall, good Ostwind snipers equates to better and more interesting actual fighting conditions for all parties.
Zazen
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Originally posted by 68DevilM
i use my curser as my sight.
I don't use graphical sites at all for anything, I have all my views page-up'd maximally in everything. I have a small square piece of transparent tape with a red pen-inked crosshair drawn on it permanently on my screen. All bullets go to the exact same location in everything, it never changes. In this way the maximum nose-low deflection view can be achieved and I still have the freedom to move the mouse cursor around without losing my aiming spot. I tried the mouse cursor thingy, it didn't make a good sight, it was opaque, the transparent tape is 'see-thru' so does not obscure the view of the target in any way.
Zazen
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one thing i LOVE in gv..
When you are defending a v-base, and someone goes to drop their ord on you rather than disable the VH, just exit and respawn after bombs go off.
Its so funny to watch them hissy fit over wasting their ord.
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Originally posted by Darkish
Getting a wheels down plane kill - easy: getting up from a vulched base and taking a few of the buggers with you - priceless
LOL !! Taking off then killin 2 or 3 and then landing when the rest are coming down the runway for a strafing run makes my butt tight.
..and you exit as the bullets just start to hit ??
Great stuff.
Not good as a steady diet tho...well unless you enjoy breaking furniture..
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Jumping back to tower to deny a kill is imho an extreamly lame exploit, actually more lame then the already lame act of vulching.
Tex
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I have a small square piece of transparent tape with a red pen-inked crosshair drawn on it permanently on my screen.
lol, u mean u actually go to all that trouble??????
Now i know this guy is sad :rofl
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Originally posted by Hammy
lol, u mean u actually go to all that trouble??????
Now i know this guy is sad :rofl
Took about 45 seconds and lasts forever, was no trouble at all. ;)
Zazen
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Jumping back to tower to deny a kill is imho an extreamly lame exploit, actually more lame then the already lame act of vulching.
Tex
I'm sitting on the surface required for 'landing' I can land anytime I wish. Why not land before you die rather than just sit there and die? This is not an exploit, this is how the game is designed. When you are landing a plane on the runway and an enemy dives in to vulch you, do you sit there and let him vulch you, or do you quickly click tower as soon as you come to a stop and end your mission just before he gets you? Same thing. Think about it....
Zazen
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Jumping back to tower to deny a kill is imho an extreamly lame exploit, actually more lame then the already lame act of vulching.
Tex
unfortunately... i have to agree with zazen. It is part of the game.
And its funny as hell when they whine about it.
Referring to my earlier post about i do it when they have not killed VH - You could say im just denying someone who is trying to pad their score rather than win the war™. hey that rhymes, and you know it does!
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Originally posted by Hammy
lol, u mean u actually go to all that trouble??????
Now i know this guy is sad :rofl
I just looked at his stats for last Tour. He had a 13:1 K/D ratio in the Ostwind.
With this in mind, what's so sad about sticking a little piece of tape on one's screen?
eskimo
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what's so sad about sticking a little piece of tape on one's screen?
Well if that aint what u people call "gamey" then i dont know what is.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Hammy
Well if that aint what u people call "gamey" then i dont know what is.:rolleyes:
Hammy, lots of people do this, many more just Page-Up and use their mouse cursor as an aiming reference point which is more or less the same thing only the mouse cursor is not transparent. I just took it one step further and designed my own transparent crosshair that exists independently of the graphical gaming interface. Just seems like a creative solution that takes full advantage of the viewing functionality of the Page-Up view the game itself provides for to me. Call it whatever you wish, do it or not if you wish. I know many of my enemies do it, I would be needlessly putting myself at a disadvantage if I did not do it also...
Zazen
P.S. This IS a game, everything we do is 'gamey' to some extent, it's supposed to be, it's a freakin' game! Lighten up!
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Originally posted by Hammy
Well if that aint what u people call "gamey" then i dont know what is.:rolleyes:
I'm going to repeat myself here:
Every dang thing that we do in AH is gamey. That's why it’s a game. It’s designed to be a game, and to be played as a game. .EF before the bomb hits and you win. Let the bomb kill you and you lose. It’s pretty simple. If someone gets a bigger kick out of getting bombed to smithereens, that’s fine too.
In the end, we tend to see ourselves as noble knights of the sky; our wives, kids, co-workers and friends, however, see us as computer dorks who play “airplane”.
They are right you know.
eskimo
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In the end, we tend to see ourselves as noble knights of the sky; our wives, kids, co-workers and friends, however, see us as computer dorks who play “airplane”.
I make my co-workers refer to it as a "combat simulation", not a game. Geez:rolleyes: .
:D
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zazen, nice guide
but WTF do you do when your NOT playing the game, and have some stupid crosshair on your monitor?
seems a tad silly :( and counterstrike (well all fps games) had this problem, sniper rifles didnt have a crosshair when you wasnt using the scope, so everyone started doing the "tape trick" and owning people due to the fact they now had a gun the fired like a laser, and there "trick" cheated normal players. Luckly the programers came up with fixes, like stopping the guns from having ANY sort of aim while out of scope.
Maybe HTC should stop fireing if you are not in the default height position..........hmmmm.
and exiting when the bombs are falling is, while lame, its valid and a bet most people here whining about it have also done it themselfs.
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Originally posted by Slash27
In the end, we tend to see ourselves as noble knights of the sky; our wives, kids, co-workers and friends, however, see us as computer dorks who play “airplane”.
I make my co-workers refer to it as a "combat simulation", not a game. Geez:rolleyes: .
:D
All my co-workers play games too so they know better and don't make fun.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Overlag
zazen, nice guide
but WTF do you do when your NOT playing the game, and have some stupid crosshair on your monitor?
The piece of tape is transparent and small, you can't even see it, the crosshair itself is penned with an extra fine red ink pen, mine is just a + with a dot on the axis of the lines exactly where the bullet stream goes at sea level and zero G's). It measures only 1/2 cm X 1/2cm , barely noticeable.
Zazen
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just use a M16 if your trying for GV perks for that tiger makes GV perks fast
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Originally posted by simshell
just use a M16 if your trying for GV perks for that tiger makes GV perks fast
Perks? With the Ostwind at ENY 25 it's a Perk factory. I landed just 9 kills of vulchers one hop last night and got 34 vehicle perks! Not that I ever use 'em, but....
Zazen
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Nice advice Mr Zazen... but to add one part... always use your friendly Flak.... especially if you have someone on your six... the roping works with flack great!
Course you already knew that didnt you...
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Great post, Zazen! I also love defending fields under heavy attack in an Osty and see nothing gamey about hitting the tower to avoid being killed - and land my own kills. :D
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I tried the osty last night with your advice in mind. "Landed" a 5 kill sortie.
It works. Good write up Zazen.
Then I landed a 8 and 13 kill vulch (mostly) sortie in a Chog.
:)
eskimo
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Like the fairly earned kills he's getting on your teammates as they spawn at predictable places and before they can even taxi down the runway?
Zazen
He who insists on upping from a capped base,gets vulched and continues to do so is a moron and deserves whatever he gets.
The counter to Zazens plans
attack from several directions at once. Take out VH, Drop on Hangar or tower nearest FP or waste an egg on the FP itself causing FP operator to end mission.
End result, VH dead, And no more FP.
Vulch till your hearts content or till pilots upping from capped base grow a brain and take off someplce else
:aok
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But,, I will keep the aiming advice in mind for the rare times Im in a FP.
But I manage to kill more flying planes with the main gun of a tank then in a FP
Planes dont hold up very well to tank rounds lol
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yeah its a good post but ur still screwed if the vh goes down. ur not taking down any vulchers by watching them from the tower. tips on upping from a capped field might be better :lol
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I dont and wont do this but I've heard several times about people putting tape on their monitor screens and marking it as some sort of gunsight/bombsite
Why not instead of using tape and getting sticky stuff on your monitor which can be a pain to get off.
Use a sheet of thin transparent plastic and use the static from your screen to hold it in place.
Or just use a Dry erase marker
would be a hell of alot easier to remove once you dont want it there anymore
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Good advice Zazen. I'd like to add a couple.
Park the FP or M16 on a refuel pad. It allows you to exit with a landing. If you run low on ammo, go to the driver position and wiggle the joystick (you don't have to start the engine).
But I like to sit next to the tower on fields that have the tower on a hill. This gives me a better view, shields my six, and makes me more visible. The later is good to encourage nme to attack you instead of the VH. The best way to kill a plane is when it's headed straight at you.
It's interesting how some players accuse you of gaming and bring up the old tired advice on upping during a vulch fest. I have often ended a vulch fest single handed with an Osty, allowing my countrymen to take off and defend. Now AH2 has made it much more difficult to hit an nme plane with a GV. And field guns are almost worthless. This strips our ability to defend bases, so IMO any advantage we can gain is worthy. Else, we may as well have one country and a bunch of undefended bases to attack, with lots of AI planes taking off to vulch.
One thing I've noticed in AH2 is a variance in the hit point on the 37mm cannon. Pick a target at a good distance and fire at it. Then compare where the hit sprites appear in relation to the cross hair (there's a lot of variance). Now try it in zoom mode and note if the sprites are in the same place. Try the same thing at different distances. I've found that in zoom the bullets hit below and to the left of the cross hair. And this varies with distance. Perhaps this can explain how a plane can fly directly at you and pass by without suffering a single hit. Either that or lag/rubber bullets. All is not fair for field defense.
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I remember that back in the good 'ol Grizzly, I know we used to cover many a runways with ya when the enemy was attacking.
Of course this was before the community let us know that this is a flight sim and not a GV game, then turned the field ack into BB guns and the ground veh's into useless piece's of equipment.
Back then it was fun tho, good times!
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Yeah, and I discovered long ago that I can do a lot more damage in a GV than in a plane.
Moil =o)
Originally posted by MOIL
I remember that back in the good 'ol Grizzly, I know we used to cover many a runways with ya when the enemy was attacking.
Of course this was before the community let us know that this is a flight sim and not a GV game, then turned the field ack into BB guns and the ground veh's into useless piece's of equipment.
Back then it was fun tho, good times!
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Thanks for the tips Zazen.
When following your method in the Osti, is it also important for me to .s each plane as I kill them. It is certainly a great way of calling out the kills as they happen - saves waiting until the end of the sortie, and it's good to be able to clearly identify each kill to the arena as well.
Or should I only do it with the ones that put up a really tricky close fight.
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Originally posted by Redd
Thanks for the tips Zazen.
When following your method in the Osti, is it also important for me to .s each plane as I kill them. It is certainly a great way of calling out the kills as they happen - saves waiting until the end of the sortie, and it's good to be able to clearly identify each kill to the arena as well.
Or should I only do it with the ones that put up a really tricky close fight.
Do it after each kill if you have the time, especially if the guy you killed was on a vulch run. I use this method to ensure repeat business. I KNOW for a fact that the poor bastard I just killed and 'd is going to come back heavy looking for revenge, then I kill him again. ;) Wash, Rinse and Repeat as necessary.:D
The whole idea is to him before he re-planes and takes off. This way you really get under his skin, he grabs ordnance instead of coming light to vulch your friends. Heavy with that ordnance he comes to plunk it on you instead of the VH, town or FHs, etc. Then of course, if you miss him on his run on you, you can simply end mission before his ordnance hits you, wasting his entire trip, landing his pelt and probably several of his friends' pelts in the process.
You get the idea, pretty soon people will realise this game isn't about vulching and porking and we'll really start having some fun. ;)
Zazen
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Originally posted by Karnak
Oh, I'll do all I can to avoid being killed, but I stop short of using (abusing?) game mechanisms to rob the enemy of a fairly earned kill.
This should be whine of the week.
Zazzy, I've done the same thing for over 1.5 years. Clipboard up, etc. Next time I'm on, I'll pass on some tips to ya.
No kill IS EARNED, unless that message comes up.
Karaya
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
This should be whine of the week.
Zazzy, I've done the same thing for over 1.5 years. Clipboard up, etc. Next time I'm on, I'll pass on some tips to ya.
No kill IS EARNED, unless that message comes up.
Karaya
I would appreciate any tips you may have, my thirst for knowledge is insatiable!
Zazen
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Dang that explains it, never realized the lead was that much! Always chimped it in gv's.
thanks Zazen!
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Originally posted by kj714
Dang that explains it, never realized the lead was that much! Always chimped it in gv's.
thanks Zazen!
No problemo ! Glad to be of help. Happy Vulcher slaying to you!
Zazen
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Since I cannot eject in a tank I basically think of exiting to the tower as ejecting or jumping outta my tank before a bomb falls on it... in real life if you knew a bomb had been dropped on you, would u sit there and wait to die, or try and save your life by running away... it seems very noble to say you would die, but in reality there is no way your staying, your gonna try and save your life... personally i think they should make you drive back to the hanger or to an area around the hanger, and if you leave before that on the runway you get a ditch, but I can't program the game all I can do is try and play it.. .the key word being PLAY !!... if it makes a guy happy to get killed on the runway let him do it, if it makes you happy to snub the other guy of a kill do it, if it makes you happy to vulch then do it.... its just a game, do whatever makes you happy, everybody is different.. personally i don't care about stats heck just look at my score, when i run out of ammo i just bail because i don't wanna take the time to land, would rather take off and get back in the fight... but thats just me :)
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thanks for tips zazen. I dont use any sights at all while in a osti but will try the tap thing to see if it helps.I'm not so sure of my stats in a osti ,dont know how to check ,but ussually I get a few before some spitfire pings my turrent out with 303's as I try to rip him a new one with 37mm to no avail! Funny how that works,but man what a sight to see the hit sprite and see peices scatter ,got a cool snap shot of 3 planes I'd hit falling on top of my osti.This game is what we make it to be for ourselves individually.
JB12
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My tip is bomb the VH than clusterbomb all gv dweebs.
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Originally posted by Darkish
This was pretty much my position, until last night. Thought to hell with it - nits not getting 28 without a fight. Boy, we held that field (isolated from bishland) for 5 hrs straight and were still going strong when I had to call it a night. I have to say it was the most fun I've had in months. I feared the game was getting stale, but all that's needed was a slight attitude adjustment; as the man says "frankly my dear, I don't give a.... ". Getting a wheels down plane kill - easy: getting up from a vulched base and taking a few of the buggers with you - priceless.
Thanks for the aiming tips Zazen.
well said sir !!! Priceless is correct!
navajo24 :aok
CO Uknighted JG 26 - 357th FG
co@uknightedstate.net
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That sounds reasonable but doesn't the airspeed of the target have a lot to do with how much you need to lead them. At full zoom, on the edge of your screen at 1K works for 400mph, but not for 200 (or vice versa). Am I missing something here?
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Jumping back to tower to deny a kill is imho an extreamly lame exploit, actually more lame then the already lame act of vulching.
Tex
I guess you have the tower set so it looks like the pilot is walking to the tower huh? Or is it set to instantly put you back in tower? Or didn’t you know you could do that?
BTW this vulching talk is BS
1. Planes are simply capping a base on offence
2. Ostwind is capping field on defense
It’s that simple, oh by the way it is gamey coz it’s a game if you have not noticed. Now I know a lot of us want it to feel as real as possible that is our fantasy and why most of us play and get so serous. (But we talk about realism but forget about real war and dieing conveniently leaving that part out) Same reason that us old timers paid over 6.00 dollars per hour to play Air Warrior over 8 yrs ago. And I never saw any BS like I see on these posts here in AH. It was such a great community we had in AW. I think the biggest difference is it is so cheap to play and 1000 times better than yrs ago. That it has attracted some different kinds of players that would not be as die hard as we were, if it was still 6 bucks an hr to play. But they sure do complain about everything allot. :rofl
Thank you very much Zazen for trying to help people in the Ostwind. Helping the community always makes for a better game to you sir.
Thank you also HTC for puting out a game that we almost lost.
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Zazen,If I may be blunt, whats wrong with you ?
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Originally posted by mojo55
Zazen,If I may be blunt, whats wrong with you ?
He posted in September of 2004.... that's what's wrong. :D
Woof
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The entire point of AH is setting up, and maintaining a good vulch.
Everything else is just a means to that end.
Exiting from a vehicle to avoid giving someone a kill is extremly lame. As is EVERY attempt to deny someone a kill while in the middle of combat. There is a difference between exiting on a runway before a bomb hits, and exiting in a GV before a bomb hits. In the GV you're actively engaged in the fight, exiting FROM A FIGHT only when your life is in danger. In an aircraft you're making no attempt to inflict damage anymore, simply to escape. A fighter on the runway is hardly engaged in combat. (This includes vulchees, so spawn and .ef all you like)
Exiting in a GV before a bomb hits you is akin to pulling a disconnect in the air when someone is going to run you down.
Using game mechanics to escape a fight you're involved in is lame.
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Originally posted by eskimo2
In the end, we tend to see ourselves as noble knights of the sky; our wives, kids, co-workers and friends, however, see us as computer dorks who play “airplane”.
just read this oldie thread and caught this nugget ; )
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Originally posted by Innominate
Exiting in a GV before a bomb hits you is akin to pulling a disconnect in the air when someone is going to run you down.
Hmmmm... I started to saddle up on someone I'd chased the other day and suddenly, about 600 out, they just vanished. Is that what happened? Not bad SA... They were there...then GONE... no where at all. :(
Woof
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Originally posted by SkyWolf
Hmmmm... I started to saddle up on someone I'd chased the other day and suddenly, about 600 out, they just vanished. Is that what happened? Not bad SA... They were there...then GONE... no where at all. :(
Woof
Possibly, it could also be the random discos that most people get from time to time. My worst ones come when I'm in the saddle just ready to make the shot and I disappear. :mad:
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Zazens approach isn't the best one for calculating lead in an ostie. The truth of the matter is that range to target is irrelevent to lead unless you want to take the speed loss your projectile faces into effect. And to be honest I'm not even sure if HT models that.
What you do need to know is how to estimate is your target's speed and relative angle to you. Here is the general formula you would use to calculate lead:
a = sin-1 (sin(b) * V(t)/V(p))
a = the amount to lead in degrees (if your calculator is set in degrees. I recommend this as figuring out how many radians to lead isn't usually very useful)
b = the relative bearing, AoT in this case.
V(t) = speed of target
V(p) = speed of projectile
-p.
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Originally posted by pellik
a = sin-1 (sin(b) * V(t)/V(p))
LOL...I knew you were a geek...but I had no idea!
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Originally posted by pellik
Zazens approach isn't the best one for calculating lead in an ostie. The truth of the matter is that range to target is irrelevent to lead unless you want to take the speed loss your projectile faces into effect. And to be honest I'm not even sure if HT models that.
What you do need to know is how to estimate is your target's speed and relative angle to you. Here is the general formula you would use to calculate lead:
a = sin-1 (sin(b) * V(t)/V(p))
a = the amount to lead in degrees (if your calculator is set in degrees. I recommend this as figuring out how many radians to lead isn't usually very useful)
b = the relative bearing, AoT in this case.
V(t) = speed of target
V(p) = speed of projectile
-p.
Wow yea, that's nice and all but while you're doing math they're vulching your buddies. My method is the 'practical' way to hit stuff, no calculator required...
Zazen
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I've tried this max zoom techniques, and i end up with way too little lead. When I max zoom, i feel like i'm counting the rivets. It works great for aiming gv rounds, but the field of view is so tiny that there is practically no lead.
Whta am I doing wrong?
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Wow yea, that's nice and all but while you're doing math they're vulching your buddies. My method is the 'practical' way to hit stuff, no calculator required...
Zazen
Although I let the math speak for me, a big part of the point of that equation is that distance to target is irrelevent. Changing your lead based on distance to target is incorrect.
The idea with this formula is to calculate a few common situations to see how much angle you need. Doing the math and having a precise angle as a guideline and then guestimating the rest when you're actually shooting is recommended.
This is how I fine tuned my gunnery to the point I have for the american 50s. As it stands now I'm one of only a hand full of people who routinely pick up deflection shots at 800+. I worked out the math for 90 degrees for cons at 200 and 300mph. I memorized those points on my plane, and instead of trying to find lead by walking tracers I just pick the angles. The big advantage to working out the math is that when you understand the lead you're using it's much easier to remember shots then with trying to memorize shot profiles. You get to say things like 'wow, that 262 going 500mph needed a lot of lead. Next time I shoot at a 262 I'm giving him 20 degrees.'
-p.
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Originally posted by Simaril
I've tried this max zoom techniques, and i end up with way too little lead. When I max zoom, i feel like i'm counting the rivets. It works great for aiming gv rounds, but the field of view is so tiny that there is practically no lead.
Whta am I doing wrong?
You're not doing anything "wrong" just not as percise as it could be.
You just need proper training
Hey Zazen, how ya doin' on kills this tour for our lil competition ?
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You nicknamed your Ostwind?
Uh.... well, OK then.
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Originally posted by Toad
You nicknamed your Ostwind?
Uh.... well, OK then.
???:confused:
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Originally posted by Innominate
Exiting from a vehicle to avoid giving someone a kill is extremly lame. As is EVERY attempt to deny someone a kill while in the middle of combat. There is a difference between exiting on a runway before a bomb hits, and exiting in a GV before a bomb hits. In the GV you're actively engaged in the fight, exiting FROM A FIGHT only when your life is in danger. In an aircraft you're making no attempt to inflict damage anymore, simply to escape. A fighter on the runway is hardly engaged in combat. (This includes vulchees, so spawn and .ef all you like)
Exiting in a GV before a bomb hits you is akin to pulling a disconnect in the air when someone is going to run you down.
Using game mechanics to escape a fight you're involved in is lame.
In short...BE A MAN! LET THAT 1K EGG LAND ON YOU!
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
He who insists on upping from a capped base,gets vulched and continues to do so is a moron and deserves whatever he gets.......
Vulch till your hearts content or till pilots upping from capped base grow a brain and take off someplce else
:aok
I tend to agree with that view, but to the brave bastids that do it anyhow and often save bases from capture while ruining their precious K/D's
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Originally posted by pellik
Although I let the math speak for me, a big part of the point of that equation is that distance to target is irrelevent. Changing your lead based on distance to target is incorrect.
The idea with this formula is to calculate a few common situations to see how much angle you need. Doing the math and having a precise angle as a guideline and then guestimating the rest when you're actually shooting is recommended.
This is how I fine tuned my gunnery to the point I have for the american 50s. As it stands now I'm one of only a hand full of people who routinely pick up deflection shots at 800+. I worked out the math for 90 degrees for cons at 200 and 300mph. I memorized those points on my plane, and instead of trying to find lead by walking tracers I just pick the angles. The big advantage to working out the math is that when you understand the lead you're using it's much easier to remember shots then with trying to memorize shot profiles. You get to say things like 'wow, that 262 going 500mph needed a lot of lead. Next time I shoot at a 262 I'm giving him 20 degrees.'
-p.
I'll take your word for the physics, but I assure you, my method works in the game...
Zazen
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Zaz,
When you say zoom all the way in, is that "Z" all the way and then continue by using the "[" and "]" keys?
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origionaly posted by Zazen13
P.S. This IS a game, everything we do is 'gamey' to some extent, it's supposed to be, it's a freakin' game! Lighten up!
reminds me of something x0847Marine might say to rationalize his style of play:rolleyes: i think he also went so far as to put some tape on his screen :lol
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Originally posted by pellik
Zazens approach isn't the best one for calculating lead in an ostie. The truth of the matter is that range to target is irrelevent to lead unless you want to take the speed loss your projectile faces into effect. And to be honest I'm not even sure if HT models that.
What you do need to know is how to estimate is your target's speed and relative angle to you. Here is the general formula you would use to calculate lead:
a = sin-1 (sin(b) * V(t)/V(p))
a = the amount to lead in degrees (if your calculator is set in degrees. I recommend this as figuring out how many radians to lead isn't usually very useful)
b = the relative bearing, AoT in this case.
V(t) = speed of target
V(p) = speed of projectile
-p.
So, Pellik - what is the V(p) for the 37mm ground and Osty guns? Tony Williams' site helped me with the others.
This method makes a lot of sense to me, I guess fitting with how my mind works.
Yes, I am a numbers geek...
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Originally posted by Simaril
So, Pellik - what is the V(p) for the 37mm ground and Osty guns? Tony Williams' site helped me with the others.
This method makes a lot of sense to me, I guess fitting with how my mind works.
Yes, I am a numbers geek...
About 800m/s
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Originally posted by eskimo2
In the end, we tend to see ourselves as noble knights of the sky; our wives, kids, co-workers and friends, however, see us as computer dorks who play “airplane”.
They are right you know.
eskimo
Theres a bucket of cold water for you.:D That is the truest statement I've seen on this board in four years.:lol
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Originally posted by pellik
Zazens approach isn't the best one for calculating lead in an ostie. The truth of the matter is that range to target is irrelevent to lead unless you want to take the speed loss your projectile faces into effect. And to be honest I'm not even sure if HT models that.
What you do need to know is how to estimate is your target's speed and relative angle to you. Here is the general formula you would use to calculate lead:
a = sin-1 (sin(b) * V(t)/V(p))
a = the amount to lead in degrees (if your calculator is set in degrees. I recommend this as figuring out how many radians to lead isn't usually very useful)
b = the relative bearing, AoT in this case.
V(t) = speed of target
V(p) = speed of projectile
-p.
Actually, the distance to the target when you pull the trigger is very important.... The projectile must cover all that ground while the target is moving to the side.....defined by sin B * V(t). Also, as the projectile moves towards the target, the target moves away (extending the flight time of the projectile) at cos B * V(t), which adds to the flight time of the projectile.
Bottom line, holding all else constant, the greater the distance at trigger pull, the greater the lead required.
That should put most of you to sleep!
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Originally posted by TalonX
Actually, the distance to the target when you pull the trigger is very important.... The projectile must cover all that ground while the target is moving to the side.....defined by sin B * V(t). Also, as the projectile moves towards the target, the target moves away (extending the flight time of the projectile) at cos B * V(t), which adds to the flight time of the projectile.
Bottom line, holding all else constant, the greater the distance at trigger pull, the greater the lead required.
That should put most of you to sleep!
Please note the lack of distance to target in that equation. What matters is the difference in the speed of your projectile vs. the speed of your target. That equation requires:
Angle off tail, which is the b. I don't know how you got that AoT relates to distance.
Speed of target.
Speed of projectile.
That is all.
The key here is that the ratio of distance travelled by airplane over distance travelled by projectile is constant. If the airplane's distance is increased the distance it travells will increase at the same ratio as the distance my projectile travels at increases, which is why the amount of lead remains constant.
Let's review some geometry.
Pretend, for simplicity's sake, the ratio works out such that 45 degrees of lead is required to hit a target that is flying at 90 degrees deflection (perpendicular) to us. We now have a right isosceles triangle, which has sides of length 1, 1, and 2^(1/2). If the target is now 100m away from us we just multiply EACH side by 100m, keeping the same triangle but just making it bigger. In short as long as the projectile travels 2^(1/2) times faster then an airplane which is at 90 AoT, the angles of the triangle will remain 45 45 90.
If this doesn't make sense I'll draw you some pictures when I get home.
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I could be talked into your math. When I considered it a congruent triangle, the distance DIDN'T matter.....since the lead (in feet) increases in direct proportion to the distance, with a constant lead angle.
Of course, we are ignoring the third dimension, defined by the trajectory of the projectile, which is modelled. It would be possible to aim perfectly, only to have your round pass under the target.
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numbers...suck. there's like, too many of em and stuff;
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Wow yea, that's nice and all but while you're doing math they're vulching your buddies. My method is the 'practical' way to hit stuff, no calculator required...
Zazen
Use the force, Luke!
Different techniques work for different people. If the plane blows up, consider it a success. I have a lot of success (luck) in an ostie at default zoom using the very tip of my mouse pointer as a targeting sight.
I don't know the math, but I get my fair share of kills.
If you have a a/c diving on you from say, 2.5K straight in, he will die 75% of the time before he gets to 1.5K if you "hide" his plane with your mouse using the very tip as a sight reference.
I have blown up planes that I never saw the ping because my mouse covered the plane.
As far as deflections, it is ALL feel for me. I concentrate on putting lead in his flight path, and let experienced guess guide my lead angle. If I'm on, I will get a lot of kills. When I'm off, I can't hit my arse with both hands.
My2cWorth
Skeeter0
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Well I used Zazen's methodology last night, and it worked instantly, first time I tried it. Boom! Dead 110, Boom! Dead F4U.
It felt instinctive too.
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Unbelievably, I have found the win win...
Pellik and Zazen are both right....
Example: If the correct lead at 100 meters is 25 feet, you could calculate a lead angle....in this case: 4.3 degrees.
At 200 meters, the correct lead is 50 feet.....DOUBLE the lead, yet still 4.3 degrees.
Pellik was right - the lead ANGLE is irrespective of distance to the target.
Zazen was right - if the target is twice as far away, you need to lead it TWICE as much (in feet).
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The absolute most frustrating thing in an ostie is a plane can come right at you literally riding your bullet stream in dead center the whole way in and you wont hit it once even when it reaches point blank range.
Yet a quick burst of its 50 cal will neuter you.
I have better luck shooting down planes with the main gun on a tank. and even more luck shooting down planes with the pintle gun on a tank then I do in an ostie with the plane comming straight in at me
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Originally posted by TalonX
Unbelievably, I have found the win win...
Pellik and Zazen are both right....
Example: If the correct lead at 100 meters is 25 feet, you could calculate a lead angle....in this case: 4.3 degrees.
At 200 meters, the correct lead is 50 feet.....DOUBLE the lead, yet still 4.3 degrees.
Pellik was right - the lead ANGLE is irrespective of distance to the target.
Zazen was right - if the target is twice as far away, you need to lead it TWICE as much (in feet).
In real life, the lead angle increases with distance due to the fact that a bullet is slowing down. It has to expend energy to push the air out of its way. That energy comes from the bullet velocity. It is called drag, and is exactly the same as drag on an airplane.
That having been said, I don't think that the slowing down of a bullet is modeled in AH. The math is very difficult, as change in velocity has to be taken from tables (it is not a smooth mathematical function) Hatchers' Tables are a defacto standard for plotting velocity change. If we don't take in consideration the bullet slowing down (and it is substantial) the lead angle is the same from zero to infinity.
Drop is another matter and I do believe that there is some modelling of that in AH. However, if you don't factor in the change in velocity, then the drop will not be accurate either.
All that being said, the bullet trajectories we have work fine in a simulation.
It is a game, and a darn good'un to boot :)
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
The absolute most frustrating thing in an ostie is a plane can come right at you literally riding your bullet stream in dead center the whole way in and you wont hit it once even when it reaches point blank range.
Yet a quick burst of its 50 cal will neuter you.
I have better luck shooting down planes with the main gun on a tank. and even more luck shooting down planes with the pintle gun on a tank then I do in an ostie with the plane comming straight in at me
I think the problem I have with the HO by a plane is that the bullet passes over the plane. That is, the plane, even though it is flying straight at you, it is lower when the bullet gets there than when you fired the round off. Try shooting just below the plane.
I don't use the Ostie much, but now and then I up one for a change of pace. I get bored in them way too soon. Either that, or I get killed and can't up another as the hangar is down. All in all, with vh's being so easy to kill, it makes base defense hard.
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AKFokerFoder:
"Either that, or I get killed and can't up another as the hangar is down. All in all, with vh's being so easy to kill, it makes base defense hard"
Ya think! singin' to the choir baby
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Originally posted by TalonX
Unbelievably, I have found the win win...
Pellik and Zazen are both right....
Example: If the correct lead at 100 meters is 25 feet, you could calculate a lead angle....in this case: 4.3 degrees.
At 200 meters, the correct lead is 50 feet.....DOUBLE the lead, yet still 4.3 degrees.
Pellik was right - the lead ANGLE is irrespective of distance to the target.
Zazen was right - if the target is twice as far away, you need to lead it TWICE as much (in feet).
Zazen is sugguesting a fixed zoom keeping the plane at different parts of the screen. He is suggesting you use different angles.
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
In real life, the lead angle increases with distance due to the fact that a bullet is slowing down. It has to expend energy to push the air out of its way. That energy comes from the bullet velocity. It is called drag, and is exactly the same as drag on an airplane.
That having been said, I don't think that the slowing down of a bullet is modeled in AH. The math is very difficult, as change in velocity has to be taken from tables (it is not a smooth mathematical function) Hatchers' Tables are a defacto standard for plotting velocity change. If we don't take in consideration the bullet slowing down (and it is substantial) the lead angle is the same from zero to infinity.
Drop is another matter and I do believe that there is some modelling of that in AH. However, if you don't factor in the change in velocity, then the drop will not be accurate either.
All that being said, the bullet trajectories we have work fine in a simulation.
It is a game, and a darn good'un to boot :)
I considered this. My conclusion was that if both the plane's speed and AoT are estimated then the effect of the dV of the projectile would be way smaller then your margin of error.
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So Pellik are you saying that Zazen's information is wrong, or that in theory it should be wrong?
Let's assume we have two targets at different distances both traveling at 90 degrees to our position at the same velocity. For the purposes of aim, we have two indentical triangles, except that one is larger than the other.
Now, when aiming at the closer target, your eye would pick a point in space that has less distance between it and the target than if shooting at the more distant target (even though the angle would be the same). Perhaps the game is simulating this. I believe that is Talon's point.
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Originally posted by pellik
I considered this. My conclusion was that if both the plane's speed and AoT are estimated then the effect of the dV of the projectile would be way smaller then your margin of error.
If you are talking about shooting from the hip, like we do in arial gunnery, perhaps.
But if you are taking a running shot at an Antelope at 400 yards, you will find your lead angle is greater than shooting at the same animal, at the same speed, at the same angle of incidence to the shooter. Basically, the bullet will land behind him.
I'll have to dig out some of my reloading manuals and do the calculations.
Bullet slowdown is substantial, especially in Cannon rounds where the bullet coefficient is very poor. As the range doubles, the time to target more than doubles (as one would expect in a linear model). This time to target can be cause a miss on a 88 ft per second antelope. Remember, at that velocity, the antelope will move 4.4 feet in .05 seconds. What I am pointing out here is that a 20 millisecond difference means the antelope is 4.4 ft delta from where your original lead point was. A 300 mph airplane would have mover 22 feet.
Again, I will have to get some bullet flight times to flesh this out. Hopefully you can see where I am going.
Again, I doubt if HT models this, nor would I encourage him to do so. It certainly wouldn't add much to game play.
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The fixed zoom is irrelevant, I believe. The fact that he aims "twice as far" to the side for a target "twice as far away" means the angle is exactly the same, just the lead in feet is changing relative to the distance to the target.
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By popular demand I am bumping this post so it can be more easily found.
Zazen
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I have found that zooming your sight all the way in while putting the mouse pointer in the center of that sight then hitting PAGE UP key ,then F10 key will allow you use the mouse pointer as the gun sight and give you a clear field of fire.While using this tactic i lead the aircraft about 1 inch gap between the pointer and the target.
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Originally posted by nopoop
It's whatever floats your boat. Upping from a vultched field can in some cases be a whole lot of fun.
It's the first kind of field I look for and then I up and call them twits as they vulch me! Tons O fun! Usually I end up making them use their E and ammo and then up a la7 and chase em down and kill them!:D
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Originally posted by eilif
origionaly posted by Zazen13
reminds me of something x0847Marine might say to rationalize his style of play:rolleyes: i think he also went so far as to put some tape on his screen :lol
Hey I have tape on my monitor, looks dumb but it really works. :aok
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Originally posted by BBQ_Bob
Hey I have tape on my monitor, looks dumb but it really works. :aok
You can also use a red sharpie pen to make a small dot or crosshair where the bullet stream goes. It wipes off with windex easily and is also translucent.
Zazen
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Although I do not use this exact method, but very simular (nothing worth spending time writing about).
I started using Zazens method, and I am getting much better at leading bogeys in the osty. In fact, I think I am getting to be pretty good.
Not an ace shot, but I do get a lot of them before they get me now, at least one or two. I rely mostly on the tracers to adjust lead, but Zazens method gives a good starting point to watch tracers from.
My hardest shot is still a bogey flying straight away from me. You’d think it would be a sitting duck just like a bogey flying straight at you.
Of course I don’t shoot the vulchers in an osty because I hate them. I shoot them because it’s fun.
I mean, they are just honest hard working vulchers trying to pad their score, er I mean suppress base defense. In a land grab game like the Main Arcade, vulching (or as Zazen puts it; “Cherry Picking” if their wheels are off the runway) is a legitimate part of game play. And so is sitting in a dweeb ride like the Flack Panzie and picking those vulching scumbags off :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
Although I do not use this exact method, but very simular (nothing worth spending time writing about).
I started using Zazens method, and I am getting much better at leading bogeys in the osty. In fact, I think I am getting to be pretty good.
Not an ace shot, but I do get a lot of them before they get me now, at least one or two. I rely mostly on the tracers to adjust lead, but Zazens method gives a good starting point to watch tracers from.
My hardest shot is still a bogey flying straight away from me. You’d think it would be a sitting duck just like a bogey flying straight at you.
Of course I don’t shoot the vulchers in an osty because I hate them. I shoot them because it’s fun.
I mean, they are just honest hard working vulchers trying to pad their score, er I mean suppress base defense. In a land grab game like the Main Arcade, vulching (or as Zazen puts it; “Cherry Picking” if their wheels are off the runway) is a legitimate part of game play. And so is sitting in a dweeb ride like the Flack Panzie and picking those vulching scumbags off :rofl :rofl :rofl
Aiming at bandits flying directly away from you can be quite tricky, but it also can provide you with alot of, "OMFG you cheater! How did you get me at 3k!" responses that can make your day. The key to this is lead the nose not the plane if that makes any sense. People are getting smarter they will use rudder slip and what-not when egressing from a vulch or pork pass. To account for this and the time latency of shell to target, lead the plane's nose, it'll be there eventually.
It's best to not think in terms of "striking" the target but, instead, throwing a shell stream up that is most likely to 'intersect' with the target's projected flight-path at a particular point and time in space. Another important factor as I mention in the initial post, avoid micro-managing your aiming corrections, there is a natural spread of the shells, try to avoid over-compensating for this, keep your turret movements as gradual, smooth and fluid as possible.
Zazen
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I have a couple of films, one is a sweet three kill on a set of a20s, another of an assist on a IL2 followed by a kill on a Spit, only the last a20 is a head on shot. I am going to try to get a website where I can post them
I find that most of my shots tend to be behind a bogey. And good pointer over micro managing.
Do you have a good gunsite for the ho divers? I tend to aim just below them.
Some film of leading bogeys flying away from you would be nice.
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I'd love to make a film if that helps anyone, but I have nowhere to host it...
Zazen
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Originally posted by Zazen13
I'd love to make a film if that helps anyone, but I have nowhere to host it...
Zazen
zazen, PM me with your email addy, i'll host it
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
zazen, PM me with your email addy, i'll host it
Great ty, will do.
Zazen