Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Jimdandy on January 06, 2001, 08:11:00 AM
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So far I'd have to say the P-38 is my preferred ride. It can carry big a payload, very good rate of climb, will turn with the best, fast in a dive, will preform at most any alt, and will still dogfight on one engine (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Can't see anything out of it so you have to let the Force be with you, and everyone knows your around because your as big as a medium bomber LOL. Really though I love the 38. Anyone else?
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I loved the P38 since I first flew it. I know many people here insist that it is a worthless plane, but I simply think that it its a nice thing to fly and fight in.
Needs few trim input, has AWESOME firepower (some hours ago I downed a F4U at 750 yards with a couple of short bursts), can return home with a lot of damage, and has very good a/g loadout.
I dont think it turns that great, tho. However I dont try to do it too much either (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
Sucks that it is a bit slow at most altitudes and that when slow it is so HEAVY to roll...and of course its very easy to compress.
overall a very underrated plane from my point of view.
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Hey, dont shoot me! I'm on the light side!!
(http://smilecwm.tripod.com/owen/luke3.gif)
(http://www.navegalia.com/hosting/000e0/illumm/Xhog.gif)
[This message has been edited by Luke Skywalker (edited 01-06-2001).]
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Heh, dont get Citabria and me started on this.
Jimdandy, the P38 is my favorite plane in the world. I'm not flying it much in 1.05 cause I'm mostly taking off from carriers.
Lets just say the P-38 is an excellent plane that needs a good pilot.
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Damn I'm good (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) LOL! <S>
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It's my number two plane of choice. Especially for Jabo work. The P-47 is my first love. Although lately, if I encounter a heavy concetration of Niki's and Chogs on a mission I'll fight fire with fire by re-launching in a Chog and playing the snap shot game too.
-Westy
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The p38 is one hot ride.
There is no way it should be a .32 perk.
The zero is 30.
Most guys i have seen flying it use it wrong (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Its a 51 that turns and climbs better. Be a oportunist and run alot and your almost unkillable.
Its worst atribute is how easy it is to hit while in a turn.
EYE
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Love it . its also the most expensive fighter
in the arena (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) the p38 might have been the first skunkwork product for it's original look.
S! chaps
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beurling: the p38 is a great ride, and I think its 32 perk ranking is good. While the zero can turn till you puke, the 38 is a B&Z fighter.
I like that they finally fixed the guns on it this version. Last version you had to spew half your ammo into something to scratch its paint. Now its a cool ride!
<S> HTC!
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the p51 out climbs, out dive out turns and out runs the p38.
I've found p-38's to be the easiest kills in the game. a big fat target that ussually dosn't see you and when they do its too late for them to evade.
the perk value is based on k/d ratio more than anything and its the reason the p38 is at 32 instead of lower.
people try to turnfight in it and... die... a lot
they try to b&z in it... compress and... die
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LOL Cit I'm glad you posted but I asked if anyone liked it not hated it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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The P-38 is the master of mediocrecy.
For this I love it.
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I though there was no problem with compressibility under 20-25,000 ft, but in AH there is.
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How does anybody know that the P-38 is a .32 multipier? Where is this posted??
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Surely you jest ?
At hi speeds 38 is awsomeUntill 450 mph.
In a low speed fight it will beat a 51 easy.
In a dive well yep the 51 can go faster but 38 sure does roll good at high speed.
Guns ? i take the 38.
The 38 is great at alt too say 30k.
Its a all rounder way too good for a 32 rate.
No way around the fact its a far better plane compared to the zero.
As a jabo? Well it could carry 4k i thought?
Anything around that can carry more?
Cit i think your protecting you fav rides rating (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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P38's rating is based SOLELY on popularity, the more ppl fly em the lower the perk rating becomes. The performance of a plane only indirectly affects its perk rating.
Variables that make a 38 such a high rating:
Unpopular in the MA because:
More difficult to kill with for the non experten
View isn't that great
Not very fast
Compression
IT'S NOT A TnB'er.
The plane that, is relatively fast, has hispano's, a decent turn rate, decent visibility, decent payload, and painted a pretty bloo, is the most popular, therefore lowest rating, its the easiest aircraft for a non experten to kill in, and is probably the best multirole machine in the game.
New additions like the F6F and seaspit may in time see their ratings go up, based on their popularity. I suspect the seaspit's will for sure, once the newness wears off. The rating of 17 for both these aircraft may have been tough to guess at for HTC, not knowing exactly how popular they would be.
my ramblins
AKskurj
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A zeke will eat a p38 for lunch unless the 38 remains fast and has a little alt advantage.
The 38 is great plane, but it needs a pilot that is aware of the gawd awful lot of ways in which you can get yourself shot down in one.
BTW Jim, you may look up the 475th FG 'Satans Angels' squadron. Its a P-38 squad ran by Viking. Wing up with fellow 38'ers (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by Tac (edited 01-06-2001).]
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Thx for the info Tac <S>
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LOL Cita! Agree! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Btw JimDandy, Cita is prolly the better 38 driver of the of the group... Next to me of course (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
Ya might want to ask him bout tactics (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Central
Fat Drunk Bastard
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ugly with weak tails (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
not many out there cause noone brave enough to use em (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
hazed
ps i will say this though its easier to stay alive in than a 190a8 but not half as nice to look at (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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In first part of 1.04 I was using the P47D25 for Jabo.
I then changed to the P38 because of all the rants about it's poor performance.
Well. I can only say that my Jabo plane now is the P-38.
It's climb of 2,500+ ft/min with 100% fuel, 2x1000lbs bombs and 10 rockets, beats the P47 hands down.
You need to know how to fight with it to be successful and I still seem to continuously bring myself into hopeless situations with it. Gotta love it's steady gun platform tho (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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badboy sent me this email on the AH P-38L(hope he dosnt mind me sharing it)
doh sorry (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
[This message has been edited by Citabria (edited 01-07-2001).]
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"The short answer is that the overlay of the P-38 with other aircraft reveal that it has very poor maneuverability. It appears to be the least maneuverable AH aircraft I've tested thus far."
I would have to say it surprises me to. I have nothing but the best of luck with the 38. I've never felt totally out classed by any of the fighters on AH. DON'T get me wrong, I'm sure you've gathered the data. I'm just saying the dang thing works for me for some reason. I've flown every plane on AH and early on I got the feeling the 38 was for me. I was a 109F-4 driver on AW and I came in here and jumped all over the 109F-4 thinking I'd eventually get the same results with it. I didn't so I went to the G6, and then the G10, G2, Niki, F4U-C and D, and so on tell I went to the 38. It was just about the last plane I tried. And it clicked. I've tried the others since and keep coming back to the 38. I'm weird I guess. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Thanks for all your input guys (even those damn 38 haters (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ) <S>.
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Originally posted by Citabria:
badboy sent me this email on the AH P-38L(hope he dosnt mind me sharing it)
I wouldn't normally expect to see one of my e-mail responses posted without my knowledge in a forum thread. I usually prefer to have a choice about which threads I become involved in. But since I'm here...
Regarding the P-51 v P-38:
(http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~badboy/PDF/AH-P-51vsP-38.jpg)
The new F6F v P-38:
(http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~badboy/PDF/AH-F6FvsP-38.jpg)
To put that into perspective, the Spitfire Mk IX v F6F:
(http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~badboy/PDF/AH-SpitvsF6F.jpg)
All with clean configuration, no flaps, 25% fuel at Sea Level... Enjoy!
Leon "Badboy" Smith
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test
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I may wobble, but its only cause Im drunk!!
(http://www.aviation-history.com/grumman/f6f-3.jpg)
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I have to confess to loving the P38. Great ordinance load-carrying ability, its my preferred anti-tank weapon with the 10 rockets and 2 1,000 pounders.
What I dislike about it is the visiblity isnt as good as the sigle engine fighters, so that makes seeing the bad guys a real challenge.
And, since its a twin engine aircraft, its a bigger target for bomber tailgunners to shoot at.
Frankly, I find the P-38 very easy to shoot down as well. Its just a bigger target.
Like a lot of aircraft in here, it depends on the pilot. Some of you hate the Lancaster, but you ain't lived 'til ya loop and barrel roll it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Paul
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Hmm i thought i read in a earlier thred that 3g's at low speed was best in a low speed turn.
Where the lines intersect is cv for the planes?
The spit turns best at 15o mph with around 2.8 g's?
Ive been wondering about this because ive been trying 3 g's at 150 mph. I felt some times there was more turn rate left.
I would love to see 51 vs 38 with flaps.
EYE
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P 38 should be perked. Its a vulch o matic. They scare me far more then the chog ever did.
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(some hours ago I downed a F4U at 750 yards with a couple of short bursts)
Luke, don't you read these boards??? What you are saying is clearly impossible.
Everyone knows that AH gunnery is perfect (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Now i see the f6f is much more manouvrable
and i lost so many turnfights with ai ai (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
tought it was equal
S! chaps
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All with clean configuration, no flaps, 25% fuel at Sea Level... Enjoy!
Leon "Badboy" Smith[/B][/QUOTE]
Maybe thats what I'm doing right with it. I use the flaps. I don't know. I can tell you I have no problem getting in a turn fight in my 38. Like I said I must be weird. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Beurling:
Hmm i thought i read in a earlier thred that 3g's at low speed was best in a low speed turn.
Once you are below corner speed, you get the best turn rate, and smallest radius by flying along the stall line, that's the left most line on those diagrams. The higher up that line the better, the snag is of course that none of the aircraft can sustain a higher position on that curve than the point where the sustained turn rate curve joins it.
If you check the Spitfire curve, you see it has a 5g stall speed of 200mph, a 4g stall speed just under 180mph and a 3g stall speed close to 155mph. The turn rate is better the higher you go, up to corner speed, but the highest SUSTAINED turn rate is where you said, 2.8g at 150mph.
Where the lines intersect is cv for the planes?
Corner velocity, is the highest point on the curves for each aircraft, the apex if you like, and for the aircraft on those diagrams you can see it is:
P-38L = 273
P-51 = 260
F6F = 233
Spit = 219
Generally, a lower corner speed implies better instantaneous turning performance. So ranking the aircraft above in order, gives:
1) Spit
2) F6F
3) P-51
4) P-38
The P-38 is last! Now if you use the diagrams above to look at the difference between the Spitfire and the P-38... You see a very large difference. Especially when you consider that current thinking among real fighter pilots is that any more than a two degrees per second sustained turn rate advantage would be decisive.
The spit turns best at 15o mph with around 2.8 g's?
That's its best sustained turn rate, with 25% fuel, no wep, and no flaps.
Ive been wondering about this because ive been trying 3 g's at 150 mph. I felt some times there was more turn rate left.
In the configuration I've quoted above, you can't pull 3g at 150mph, unless you use the wep or drop the flaps, or fly around in circles until you get lighter (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I would love to see 51 vs 38 with flaps.
So would I, and I'll be doing diagrams that include flap deployment later on, at which time I'll be able to do numerous overlays. Unfortunately these things take time, and that's one comodity I'm short of right now (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Personally, I've always been interested in the P-38 v Spitfire because I've often read the opinion that they would have been evenly matched. Indeed, I've seen many folk make quite vocal claims for the superiority of the P-38... But not in Aces High (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Leon "Badboy" Smith
[This message has been edited by Badboy (edited 01-07-2001).]
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Personally, I've always been interested in the P-38 v Spitfire because I've often read the opinion that they would have been evenly matched. Indeed, I've seen many folk make quite vocal claims for the superiority of the P-38... But not in Aces High (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Leon "Badboy" Smith
[This message has been edited by Badboy (edited 01-07-2001).][/B][/QUOTE]
I'd have to make a pitch for the 38 vs the Spit on AH. I've flown the 38 on the ragged edge vs the Spit high and low and it's close. I think the Spit edges out just a bit but in a dog fight with distraction and the like it the edge wares down. Now straight 1 vs 1 If no one makes a mistake, equal standing at the beginning of the fight and all that, I think the Spit will win out by a small margin on AH.
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Originally posted by Jimdandy:
Now straight 1 vs 1 If no one makes a mistake, equal standing at the beginning of the fight and all that, I think the Spit will win out by a small margin on AH.
The Spitfire should win by a very comfortable margin. If you are having success against the Spitfire from a Co-E merge, I can only think that you must be very fortunate with the quality of your opponents (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Leon "Badboy" Smith
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Originally posted by LePaul:
And, since its a twin engine aircraft, its a bigger target for bomber tailgunners to shoot at.
Never tailsit a bomber in the P38. It's a great, stable platform for vertical attacks, with a good climbrate. Go for the vertical attack every time and you'll rack up bomber kills with the close convergence of the guns.
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The P-38 is my favorite plane of all time, and always seems to get a bad a bad rap. It really bugs me when people insist that it is inferior. I'm not going to go into that argument though.
Anyway, it has been my favorite ride in AH since I first started. The Hellcat is beginning to supersede it though, primarily because it seems to be more accurately modeled. Now, don't get me wrong; it's beyond a shadow of a doubt the best modeled Lightning I've flown in any sim. It's climb and dive, etc. feel fine. The only thing that bothers me is its turn and spin characteristics.
Regardless, it's a very good all around plane in the MA. I'm not going to bother asking for it to be fixed; I honestly don't know if it is wrong. And the firepower has been fixed eh? I better give it another try. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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BadBoy,
First another outstanding job on the charts again!!
Second before you do any charts including flaps please take this into consideration.
The flaps in AH do not provide enough lift. They are equally ineffective on all birds that use them for the purpose of maneuvering or lowering landing speed. This includes the P-38, F6F, F4U and P-51 which I have tested again RL 1G stall data. Based on that I would have doubts as to there actual effect on pulling G and maneuvering.
What would really be interesting is a comparison between RL turn data and AH turn data. That would be compelling.
Now if they would just fix the flaps!!