Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lazs on February 13, 2001, 08:32:00 AM
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I have proposed a perk point night for our squad. Half will change color and all will meet at remote bases. Half will take off in C47's and the other half will auger next to them repeatedly till the goon drivers have enough thousands of "perk" points. We encourage creativity... anyone with a better idea for gaining perk points is welcome to post.
I will not use mine tho but they will be for sale on ebay if anyone is interested.
lazs
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Lazs - I used to respect you but no more.
You and your whiny crybaby buddies who can't wait to see how perk points work out and instead squeak, whine, and cry all day every day are just amazing.
Can't give it a chance, can you? Can't wait and see, can you? Can't let HTC even get it off the ground to see how it works, can you? Don't wat the opportunity to fly otherwise unbalancing airplanes, do you? Gotta go post yet another teary thread on the BBS in an effort to subvert and eliminate the perk system before it is even implemented, eh?
Cry me a freaking river.
The perk system is a way to allow other planes/vehicles/weapons into the arena without unbalancing the sim. Don't you dweebs get that? If the planes were priced infinitly high, there would be essentially no perk system. HTC can adjust the cost to find a balance.
But no. You dweebs have to do everything you can to rip the rug out from under the system. You dweeb squeak about wanting new planes but then squeak at the "uber" planes that make flying the early planes a waste of time.
Why introduce early planes if they don't get used? Why introduce late and exotic planes if they unbalance the sim? Perk points just may be the answer.
Until we know for sure, I respectfully suggest you just sit down and shut the hell up.
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Rape, pillage, then burn...
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Good idea lazs, will only get you Bomber Perks though.Lazs in a Arado 234?Nah..
Best for fighters is still the Training Camp Turkey Shoot Mania.But you would have to get in line to have a try there.Of course you can substitute the c47 with the Macci 202, and things should be dandy.
And Lazs's style?Well he has given me more than just one ulcus ventriculi in the past.And he sure aint allways right.But those 262's will ruin the MA.
danish
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PakRat,
It might be better for you to save your breath. However, I have noticed a pattern.
Every day I come into work at 9:30am EST, the top two threads on the board have to do for the most part about Lazs problems with the perks.
The same squeak and whine everyday. Without looking it up, I would be he has to be a bishop! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (no offense to any of the high 'n mighty bishops residing on this board, of course)
If people would stop responding to these threads, the problem would fix itself. Lazs would stop whining about perks, and find another trolling subject that could inflame the masses.
Such as: The Uber-202, the lack of patches and upgrades, or of course....
RAM
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (just jokin with ya ramo)
Something tells me he'll get just as far squeaking about the above points.
And the real surprise is that lazs or no lazs, we're still getting perks whether we like them or not. So at this point, we're strapped in and the coaster is already moving down the tracks. Might as well start screaming...
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Lasz has a very valid point here. Perk points are supposed to promote more realistic (fear of death) way of flying and allow more control over what and how is flown/sailed/driven.
But if the same dweebs who do not care about landing or being vulched or other stuff can easily generate infinite number of points for themselves teh way Lasz described, that will probably spoil the game for the rest of us.
If I take off in the worst plane and circle the enemy field while my friend takes off in the best non-perk plane repeatedly so I could shoot him down and make a load of points in 10 minutes so that I have enough points to fly whatever I want for the next two hours - how would you like it?
What happens to that unbalancing you mention?
I suspect HTC have some plan to counter that but without definite info we can speculate, can't we?
miko
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Originally posted by lazs:
Half will take off in C47's and the other half will auger next to them repeatedly till the goon drivers have enough thousands of "perk" points
Interestingly, it appears (and I'm not the only person noting this) that you get NO perk points for maneuver kills. So that wouldn't work.
miko 2d wrote:
If I take off in the worst plane and circle the enemy field while my friend takes off in the best non-perk plane repeatedly so I could shoot him down and make a load of points in 10 minutes so that I have enough points to fly whatever I want for the next two hours - how would you like it?
What happens to that unbalancing you mention?
[/b]
I still think bombing the factories in fighters might still actually beat this method in terms of perks/minute gained.
[This message has been edited by Torgo (edited 02-13-2001).]
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It wouldn't make sense *not* to think they'd figure out a way to fix the system.
As a lot of people have said, we cannot tell what will happen until 1.06 comes out. Hey, if it sucks, I'll start squeaking with ya guys, but I'm pretty sure HTC will be putting a lot of resources into making sure it's a good system. After all, the point is to attract *more* and *happier* customers.
People seem to get in the mindset that HTC is just doing whatever they want without any input from the playerbase.
I would think that is exactly the opposite from the truth. A RPS has been proven not to be strategically market wise in two ways - lesser numbers during the early war years, and the of course the people who argue that they are paying $30 a month to have a C-Hawg all 30 (or 31) days.
Yes, it can be also aruged that the perk system only allows some players to get the nicer planes, thus giving them more bang for their buck. This is why I believe that players should receive an influx of perks per tour - say 50 in each catagory. This will allow everyone a shot once or twice in their perk of choice. (or make it should be 100? In whatever case, it could be tweaked)
Either/any way, lets just see it. Right now perks aren't killing the game. One hell of a furball last night over 10, I bet there were'nt a lot of rooks thinking 'oh, I gotta go in a 202 to get perks' while we were starving off a vicious Bish assualt.
I'm not advocating the perk system is going to be an excellent idea put into place until it actually gets here. (when the planes do, I mean) I am fighting tooth and nail to get people to just sit down and be patient.
Plus, in 1.06, what perks will we see? The Arado and Tempest? (are those the two definite perks?) Two planes that are somewhat unbalencing in large numbers but its not like you'll see a Tempest having the same success as some of the 'other' planes in the arena.
Anyway, too much writing. Work to do.
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Yeesh...
If some of ya wanna spend yer evenings gamin' the system to get yer perk points, then godspeed. Have at er!~ Enjoy the perk planes! Who gives a rat's ass? Sounds like a dumb way to spend yer time, imho.
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Lazs, you short, fat, bald headed DVB, ya did it again didn't ya? hehehe
You get a rise outta more people than I have ever seen (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Thank you miko... All suggestions for gaming the system will be appreciated. I also appreciate hearing any convoluted, complicated scheme anyone may have to prevent said gaming. The more confusing and convoluted the better. Can't wait to see the look on new guys faces when the "perk" system and all it's safeguards is explained to them! LOL
As to the idiotic perk system being a way to introduce both early and late war planes without "unbalancing the sim".... Whaaa?? It is first of all, a piss poor way to bring late war planes into the game and second.... a guarenteed way to delay early war planes introduction.... What ya gonna do, have negative perk points for early war planes??? Make everyone start out in a P39??? It is exactly the definition of a way to "unbalance a sim".
As soon as we find out what the perkies are worth I will put em on ebay or... you can just make an offer right now.. Don't delay you may miss out.
lazs
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I also appreciate hearing any convoluted, complicated scheme anyone may have to prevent said gaming.
Prevent it? Why bother? Ya don't *need* to prevent it. While the completely retarded spend their nights off somewhere crashing into C47's, they won't be a bother to me or anyone else. They'll just be... I dunno.... off somewhere crashing into C47s. I reckon most folks around here feel the same way, and aren't quite as paranoid as you Lazs (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Besides (and more importantly), I know the guys here who I would fear comin' at me in one of them perk planes.... and they most certainly *aint* they type of flyers that would spend their evenings crashing into C47s. Ok?
Nice try here lazs, but this tac aint working. I'll be sure and check back to see what you'll have drummed up for tomorrow.
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lazs u are so silly, sytop trolling
anyways before i started playing here i used to play couinterstrike alot online
in there, you start out with a pistol. when you kill someone, you get money. if you win a round (your team completes the objective) you get money. with money you can buy better guns. if youdie you loose your gun.works pretty well there, dont see why it wont here.
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zig ur right. This could be made into just another counterstrike or quake. It doesn't have to be a sim of air combat. Perhaps that is what everyone really wants. I would mention tho that the learning curve may be a trifle steeper in a flight sim than quake and that may be the big difference.
Also.. the emphasis may be different between quake/counterstrike and a combat flight sim. There is no beggining and no real end to say AH... I would just like to maintain the ability to jump in at any time and have an equal chance at prevailing as we do now.
lazs
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Lazs,
Im not convinced that what we have now is much different from what we had then or are going to have later.
I think you are freaking out, making much ado about not very much at all.
You are shooting all your ammo at a ghost dot. Calm down and WAIT for something tangible to shoot at.
Yeager
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the main arena is just quake as it is now lazs
scenarios are the only real flight sim environment in aces high right now,
in fact this game is more quakeish than counterstrike. in counterstrike when you die you have to wait until the round is over before you play again, here you just respawn instantly.
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zig.. u are missing the point. Perks are quake... You get "powerups" or extra (over everyone else) weapons. It works in couterstrike or quake or whatever because everyone starts out the same and goes for a goal. For me, combat flight sims are pure combat. I want as good a fight as possible. I don't want to be encumbered with a lot of rules and goals when I jump into the middle of a contiuous game with no real end.
The rules I want are FM limitations. I don't want to wait to respawn till a reset and i doubt anyone else does either... The game is not that fast paced. Nor, can it be.
There are half a dozen solutions to adding late war planes for those who would enjoy them. None of the others are near as bad as the Quakish perk system.
lazs
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I'm willing to wait and see. Maybe it gets better, maybe it gets worse, maybe you can't tell the difference?
Only time will tell. Patience, grasshoppers.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Im sure there will be some fine-tuning of the system to help it toward its intended objective. Thats probably exactly the reason why HTC put PPs here but without the planes - just to see how it would work and yet avoid too much moaning.
There will always be unscrupulous people who will exploit loop holes found in any system. I suspect lazs post was more of informative post highlighting a potential problem, rather than boasting about how he'll exploit a loophole - why would you, you'd wanna keep that to yaself.
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Spatula
=357th Pony Express=
From the Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord.
Reason # 44
"I will only employ bounty hunters who work for money. Those who work for the pleasure of the hunt tend to do dumb things like even the odds to give the other guy a sporting chance.
"
[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 02-13-2001).]
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for me, flight sims are about the goal. why? because thats how it was irl. fighters didnt dogfight for the sake of the fight. they fought to obtain superiority over friendly troops, to interdict the enemy, to cripple enemy industry, to escort enemy bombers. to win the war.
what you say you hate you in reality love: insta respawn action in a big ffa environment.
Then again I dont believe in the HA either. Because ppl have too much CHOICE there.
Really, what I would like best is if offline flight sims just had enemy ai and friendly interaction with countrymen and squadmates. Like playing a dynamic campaign in falcon 4 for example. Someone plans the missions that need to be flown, and you sign up for a flight, get friends to accompany you, and complete the mission specified with minimal casualties.
And hopefully have some great fights along the way (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I guess in a way you prefer the fencing while I prefer the actual battle.
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zig ur right. This could be made into just another counterstrike or quake. It doesn't have to be a sim of air combat. Perhaps that is what everyone really wants.
Feeling a little Amish today, Lazs? You almost sound like one of those "phony realism" zealots.
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CHANGE: What are yah gonna do with yer perk ride when yah get it?? Me; I'm gonna hunt Laz. No; he ain't a bish. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
LOL Zig intersting point.. I remember a passage in Johnstons book about the hunters and the hunted.. the hunters would zip thru a pre-flight; saddle up and go. The hunted would sweat the little details, wear themselves out wailing against a possible threat, whine incessantly at their plane captains over half imagined faults.. (hi laz!)
Chuck Yeager; on discovering he was going home to train pilots after his escape thru spain after being shot down went nuts.. took his case all the way to Eisenhower to remain in theatre, and fly his pony; HUNTING. For these guys; 'battle' was him vs the other guy.. for others it was survival.. for some few it was to win the war or protect the guys who were depending on them for their survival. Regardless of the motivation.. we cannot deny there were those who loved the 'ultimate game'.
We are here for the game too.. and battles or actions; we can do it all.. if we want.
Laz; hope yer favorite pet toejams in yer headphones. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Oh.. and check yer six. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Hang
1st/AG "Bishlanders" << Recruiting!!
"Turn to kill, not to engage."
Commander 'Willie' Driscoll, USNR
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Well, at least he is right, there are some gaps in the system which can be exploited. Whiners has their niche too, they offen bring force the problems which other players do not pay attention on.
But that does not do them less annoying (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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zig... I really don't think this game is about goals for most people... Sure, we all have some personal goals in mind from time to time but even those change tour to tour. for me... that is what seperates these online combat flight sims from other games.
you admit that you would love it if everyone would meet at a set time and go on organized campains or missions with realistic military leadership and the whole bit... You are proving my point. that is an awfull sim for me. It wouldn't fit into mine (or most peoples) lifestyle. Besides.... why would the idiotic perk system be of any use to even your style?
hang... How did you know??? It's uncanny... I am in constant fear of people hunting me... sometimes, weeks after it has happened, and people tell me they were doing it.... I just say.... Thank gawd i didn't know at the time!
banana... ya lost me. I'm the one who doesn't fly missions or carry bombs or drive vehicles.
lazs
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"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds"
--Albert Einstein
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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So, In summary,
You don't do missions. You don't do bombing. You don't do tanks.
You furball with an arguably questionable FM (even though I'm perfectly fine with it, some people feel like the Hogs are porked)
And you don't want anyone to have a plane that you can't have.
And Nash is right - if someone spends their time to gain points that way, all the more power to em. They aren't the type who'll be able to shoot me down no matter what I fly.
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moose.. I fly mostly the -1D and hellcats and lags and even a spit. The 1d is the most chalenging and even tho it is perhaps undermodeled, it is good enough... probly a middle of the road plane by most peoples reconing.
If you believe that load about people that game the game being easy marks and skilless... what was that handle again? I mean in a just world or romantic novel that would probly be the case but if you live by that in the arena....
lazs
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My point is that most of community is made up of respectable guys who won't do waste their time doing what you described to build perk points.
Yes, the factories earn you huge perks - and I'm sure that will be addressed. But deliberately shooting each other down? Nope, I don't see someone like hblair, hangtime, funked, doing anything of the sort.
The guys who will pull that stuff will usually (not all the time I'm sure) be the ones who will take their newfound perk and use it as a low-alt quakeplane.
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banana... ya lost me. I'm the one who doesn't fly missions or carry bombs or drive vehicles.
Yes I know Lazs, I was ribbing you because you sounded to me as though you were making fun of the people who would turn this game into a glorified Quake(in your interpretation, anyway).
Which is precisely how some of the people you label as "Amish" or "the phony realism crowd" feel when you criticize their ideas on how to make the game more "realistic".
Your version of a perfect AH may be another's idea of just another Quake sim.
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nope.. wrong lazs. I don't ask for more realism except in FM's and damage and gunnery.. What I ask for is parity, action and variety.
What you seem to want is advantage with the focus on mission.
moose you also lost me.. if these players that you think so much of are willing to use an uber plane against otherwise evenly matched ones... And to what purpose? And who is this funked guy anyway? Never heard of em.... sounds like a pretty sleazy, unskilled giggilo type to me tho.
lazs
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What you seem to want is advantage with the focus on mission.
Hehe, yeah, that's me. I strive for advantage all the time. That's why I predominantly fly the La-5 and C2.05 and Spit 9.
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<edited slightly>
HTC will just make sure that shooting down a squaddie gives you no perk points (duh!). A squaddie cannot give another squaddie perk points.
Sure, there's ways around that too (not too hard to think of one). I'm sure people will be crawling out from under their rocks to find ways to cheat the perk system.
I'm just going to open a second account and shoot myself down a million times, so I can fly the 262 all day every day.
Fury
[This message has been edited by Fury (edited 02-14-2001).]