Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: TBolt A-10 on September 04, 2004, 12:07:47 PM
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Earlier, HT pulled the 163 from the list of locked aircraft -- a move that I totally agree with. But, now, I really wonder why the 262 has to be locked?
262 pilots pay the ultimate perk price for their flights - enough perks to make a 262 sighting a somewhat rare occurence. So, why not unlock the 262? If a pilot is willing to pay the price for it, he/she should be allowed to fly it.
Thanks,
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Kerosene prices are way up. :lol
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Kerosene prices are way up. :lol
:lol
No seriously...give me a good reason why the 262 couldn't be unlocked. Otherwise, unlock the 262!!! ;)
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Because there's players with a bazillion perk points amongst the horde that:
A: Can easily afford it.
and
B: Will vulch your 262 on the runway.
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Originally posted by Arlo
Because there's players with a bazillion perk points amongst the horde that:
A: Can easily afford it.
[/b]
So?
and
B: Will vulch your 262 on the runway.
If that's a risk they're willing to take, let 'em have their 262. :)
With these huge maps, I don't think this really is an issue. In fact, no offense, but neither of these reasons are arguments for locking the 262.
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"Horde" was a key word but .. eh ... *ShruG* :D
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Originally posted by Arlo
"Horde" was a key word but .. eh ... *ShruG* :D
:D
I've only seen a horde of 262's once, and...oh wait...that was in Air Warrior on a Con night. ;)
Unlock the 262. If we're willing to pay, let us fly.
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I miss missions like Wax used to run back in the good ol days in AH1 that were nothing but Jets flying into massive hordes.
The higher points were the many players augering them into the ground who didnt understand what over speed was. :)
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I don`t understand what you are meaning by "locked". The 262 is not locked out of the game. If you have the perks, you can fly it unless the ENY balance is in effect.
If you are meaning to make it available during ENY restrictions, that would be doing the exact opposite of what it was put in place for.
If I had my way,(which aint gonna happen BTW), the 262 would be removed from the game.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
I don`t understand what you are meaning by "locked". The 262 is not locked out of the game. If you have the perks, you can fly it unless the ENY balance is in effect.
If you are meaning to make it available during ENY restrictions, that would be doing the exact opposite of what it was put in place for.
What he said.
That counts as one very good reason.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
I don`t understand what you are meaning by "locked". The 262 is not locked out of the game. If you have the perks, you can fly it unless the ENY balance is in effect.
If you are meaning to make it available during ENY restrictions, that would be doing the exact opposite of what it was put in place for.
It is rather silly to charge EXTRA perks for perk planes as a part of a balance...and then to disable those expensive perked planes because of balance....why have the perk modifyer if your just going to lock them anyway?
If I had my way,(which aint gonna happen BTW), the 262 would be removed from the game.
The 262 is a marginal fighter at best, it cant turn with the other fighters and so is more of an anoyance than anything else (to those paying attention). The only role the 262 truely shines at is bomber intercept....and at that it is amazingly effective.
The 262 used to make a good ground pounder too (for those that had the balls to use it as such)...but since the hardening of GV's....its much less effective.
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Originally posted by ALF
It is rather silly to charge EXTRA perks for perk planes as a part of a balance...and then to disable those expensive perked planes because of balance....why have the perk modifyer if your just going to lock them anyway?
Two systems for two purposes.
Perks keep the planeset balanced so that at any given time there are a variety of planes in the air. Weighting the "points" encourages people to fly more difficult planes -- theoretically. Trouble is, perks dont motivate enough people to change their behaviour at all. They dont make people want to change sides to balance, which is why the second system is needed.
The ENY system isnt suposed to modify plane choices. It's suposed to be a stick that beats people into shifting to the lower numbered side -- IN ORDER to fly whatever plane they want. If perks alone worked , the ENY wouldnt be needed. Even without the ENY, though, the perk system is needed to keep the air from being filled with scads of poorly flown jets.
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tbolt have you called HTC? in AH1 this happened several times after a reset and he had to renable them so id suggest giving him a call.....................they were enabled earlier cause i looked at the price, a whole 278pts
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Originally posted by ALF
[
The 262 is a marginal fighter at best, it cant turn with the other fighters and so is more of an anoyance than anything else . [/B]
Yea, until you get at one of the bottlenecked bases and a group of 8 to 10 starts capping the base. Then it`s just plain ridiculous.
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Originally posted by 2shad4u
tbolt have you called HTC? in AH1 this happened several times after a reset and he had to renable them so id suggest giving him a call.....................they were enabled earlier cause i looked at the price, a whole 278pts
no the 262 was locked out because of the eny value .. then when our numbers dropped it was enabled again ... (I know this as a fact cause i lost one last night) you dont know when its enabled unless you runway it
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oh im sorry i didnt know it was that disablement......i agree 262 should be available even when ENY disablements since you will most likely be paying a high price for one
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Yeah ... and F4U-4s can get pretty expensive too, at times .... they should not have them on the ENY lockdown list ... oh ... oh ... and Lalas can get up there too ..... they shouldn't be on the ENY disablement list either ..... .oh ..... and .... and .....
Nice try guys. ;)
(Hehe .... waiting for the inevitable "I pay 15 bucks a month to fly 262s" post)
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If your're unlocking the 262, you need to unlock all the perk planes. I want my Tempest unlocked. The 163 was unlocked because it is already highly restricted and really has only one specific use (HQ defense). Either unlock all the rest of the perk planes and let us 'buy' them anytime, or none at all (except 163).
Zazen
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Originally posted by Jackal1
I don`t understand what you are meaning by "locked". The 262 is not locked out of the game. If you have the perks, you can fly it unless the ENY balance is in effect.
If you are meaning to make it available during ENY restrictions, that would be doing the exact opposite of what it was put in place for.
If I had my way,(which aint gonna happen BTW), the 262 would be removed from the game.
he means ENY locked. and making it available during eny would do absolutly nothing to the game. like someone else said in this post " seeing a 262 is rare."
i wanted to fly one so bad tonight, couldnt do it cause we had about 30 more players then the bish as did the nits.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Arlo
Yeah ... and F4U-4s can get pretty expensive too, at times .... they should not have them on the ENY lockdown list ... oh ... oh ... and Lalas can get up there too ..... they shouldn't be on the ENY disablement list either ..... .oh ..... and .... and .....
Nice try guys. ;)
(Hehe .... waiting for the inevitable "I pay 15 bucks a month to fly 262s" post)
i pay my 15 bucks a month to fly the 262
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I think all the perk planes should be exempt from this mickey mouse eny/balance lock down. The cost on the perk rides goes up as numbers in your country go up, so what's the big deal?
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Originally posted by dragoon
i wanted to fly one so bad tonight, couldnt do it cause we had about 30 more players then the bish as did the nits.:rolleyes:
Not bad enough ... apparently. ;)
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Originally posted by CavemanJ
I think all the perk planes should be exempt from this mickey mouse eny/balance lock down. The cost on the perk rides goes up as numbers in your country go up, so what's the big deal?
You don't actually understand the ENY lockdown thing at all, do you? ENY lockdown helps achieve #s balance better than the perk multiplier ever did. The perk multiplier could probably be disabled altogether. :)
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Originally posted by Arlo
Not bad enough ... apparently. ;)
:rolleyes: :D I still strongly dislike any implication that one should "switch sides" just to fly a particular plane & "balance out the numbers." Changing countries isn't an option for some of us. HT ignored that fact when he installed the new system.
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Originally posted by TBolt A-10
:rolleyes: :D I still strongly dislike any implication that one should "switch sides" just to fly a particular plane & "balance out the numbers." Changing countries isn't an option for some of us. HT ignored that fact when he installed the new system.
It's an option for everyone ... whether you want to or not is up to you as an individual and your squad as a group. You ignore the fact that it is indeed an option. :D
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Originally posted by Arlo
It's an option for everyone ... whether you want to or not is up to you as an individual and your squad as a group. You ignore the fact that it is indeed an option. :D
No...my CO locked us out of the map room. :D I couldn't switch sides even if I wanted to.
Anywhoooo, this thread is about unlocking the perked rides, if not at least the very expensive 262.
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It's about the ENY lockdown system and you know it ... lol. The faster, more powerful exotic rides cost more than the less fast, less powerful exotic rides. You know the reason for that, surely. And the reason is no excuse to make the most expensive of the fast, powerful, exotic rides immune from the ENY system. Unless, of course, you're also advocating limiting them to upping from the Komet base. Even then, it'll just snowball into the "anti-ENY lockdown" faction asking for all perked planes to be available from the Komet base during hordetime.
Look at it this way .... if your side is the horde side .... then you'll never have to pay too much for the 262! :aok
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Originally posted by Arlo
It's about the ENY lockdown system and you know it ... lol. The faster, more powerful exotic rides cost more than the less fast, less powerful exotic rides. You know the reason for that, surely. And the reason is no excuse to make the most expensive of the fast, powerful, exotic rides immune from the ENY system. Unless, of course, you're also advocating limiting them to upping from the Komet base. Even then, it'll just snowball into the "anti-ENY lockdown" faction asking for all perked planes to be available from the Komet base during hordetime.
Look at it this way .... if your side is the horde side .... then you'll never have to pay too much for the 262! :aok
No, seriously...I didn't start the thread to argue about the ENY lockdowns....except for how it has affected the 262. I honestly feel that, since the 262 costs so many perks anyway, that it should be available irregardless of MA numbers.
You and others continue to drag the issue down the slippery slope (and, there are some interesting points to consider when looking at their ideas), but - once again - I simply believe the 262 should go unrestricted. If my whiney squadmate wants to pay 500 perks to fly the farkin' thing, :D let him. :lol :aok ;)
Good night, Arlo. I need to catch some ZzzZZZz's. :)
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Originally posted by TBolt A-10
No, seriously...I didn't start the thread to argue about the ENY lockdowns....except for how it has affected the 262. I honestly feel that, since the 262 costs so many perks anyway, that it should be available irregardless of MA numbers.
You and others continue to drag the issue down the slippery slope (and, there are some interesting points to consider when looking at their ideas), but - once again - I simply believe the 262 should go unrestricted. If my whiney squadmate wants to pay 500 perks to fly the farkin' thing, :D let him. :lol :aok ;)
Again, you're looking at it as a "fair play" issue -- and it's not. The ENY restriction is a penalty, a punishment to induce movement from those who will not otherwise move. HT went this route because the side numbers imbalance hurt the gameplay enough that subscribers were leaving, and still the high side wouldnt "give in." So, you are literally grounded because you won't switch sides.
And like any penalty, its supposed to hurt. In fact, the more it hurts, the more effective the policing authority thinks the penalty is.
So, keep up the complaining -- it just tells HT that the ENY does it's job. In fact, by complaining without switching you're sending the message that the penalty isnt quite strong enough.......
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Originally posted by Simaril
Again, you're looking at it as a "fair play" issue -- and it's not. The ENY restriction is a penalty, a punishment to induce movement from those who will not otherwise move. HT went this route because the side numbers imbalance hurt the gameplay enough that subscribers were leaving, and still the high side wouldnt "give in." So, you are literally grounded because you won't switch sides.
And like any penalty, its supposed to hurt. In fact, the more it hurts, the more effective the policing authority thinks the penalty is.
So, keep up the complaining -- it just tells HT that the ENY does it's job. In fact, by complaining without switching you're sending the message that the penalty isnt quite strong enough.......
Ya know.. for years Rooks faced a gangbang. The bishknit consortium denied it and HTC ignored it. Looking at all 3 country's numbers they didn't seem that far out of whack. I know people who quit because of it and the lack of address to the problem. Hell for some tours the rook total kills/deaths were more than the bish kills/deaths + knit kills/deaths. The sliding perk scale alleviated it a little bit.
Now the Rook join ops has been going on for awhile, and when it cranks up (once a week last I heard) the rooks give back what we got for a few years, and the bishknit consortium is all in tears. And this imbalance is apparent in the country numbers because people come out of the woodwork to fly in an organized enviroment. This include vast defections from the bishknit to the rook on RJO nights.
Now as far as this eny lockdown goes... I'll log off if I can't fly my bird. I'm not gonna switch sides and shoot at people I normally fly with. And don't say there's the 3rd country to shoot at, because if Rooks are in lockdown that's gonna be where the fights are. [side note: Dale the 12hr limit on country change needs to go now!!] I'll log off and go play EverQuest or Star Wars Galaxies or IL2 or something.
Anywho.. back on topic, the perks need to be exempted from the lockdown. They already have thier own balancing act, and if a country is in lockdown then they're payin the highest prices for thier perk rides.
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How many perkies do you have? I had way over 10k with my old account (before I changed names) and almost 10k already with this one.
Perks are not a balancing feature, unless HTC would reset all perks once a month.
Originally posted by CavemanJ
Anywho.. back on topic, the perks need to be exempted from the lockdown. They already have thier own balancing act, and if a country is in lockdown then they're payin the highest prices for thier perk rides.
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Originally posted by Simaril
The ENY restriction is a penalty, a punishment to induce movement from those who will not otherwise move.
I wouldn't go so far as to call it a penalty even. The detractors like to think of it that way. Being "punished" for being fanatically loyal to a chesspiece.
I'd call it incentive. Incentive to realize the MA is a game ... not a war. And a "chesspiece" is a jersey .... not a uniform. And players will move now because of this. And if a player is not one of the ones willing to change sides to balance the arena, that player is free to be stubborn about it. Just as free as he or she is to talk thier boyfriends or girlfriends into changing sides with them. :D
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Originally posted by Arlo
I wouldn't go so far as to call it a penalty even. The detractors like to think of it that way. Being "punished" for being fanatically loyal to a chesspiece.
I'd call it incentive. Incentive to realize the MA is a game ... not a war. And a "chesspiece" is a jersey .... not a uniform.
Well, you're not describing the MA 100% accurately. This is a war. The system proves that it's a war each time "The war has been won..." by a particular side, which causes the map to be reset.
Just because you have chosen not to belong to a particular country does not mean that everyone has to follow your model.
(HTC earns their money. It isn't easy to make 3,000(?) gamers happy.)
Simaril, I'd be careful about how you throw that "complaining" word around. And, "punishment"? Eh. Your outlook seems pretty strict, sir.
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Edit for flame
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(sarcasim)
Then you better quit your job, leave your wife/kids and give the war effort your complete attention, unless you want your Rook Commander to court-martial you.
Get real.... :rolleyes:
Originally posted by TBolt A-10
Well, you're not describing the MA 100% accurately. This is a war.
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i agree with Tbolt 100% they just cant see it from our POV. and that makes them right no matter what. in other words, they are the players that are happy with it and not the ones that are peeved about it. ya might get a better turnout of only 1/4 of the peeved players responded. but they know better then to come to the BBS and post their views even though its changed in here (somewhat).:p
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You misunderstand me, Dragoon. I like the ENY changes, I just disagreed with his 'this is a war' rhetoric.
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Originally posted by Delirium
(sarcasim)
Then you better quit your job, leave your wife/kids and give the war effort your complete attention, unless you want your Rook Commander to court-martial you.
Get real.... :rolleyes:
Have you been nominated for the Best Drama Oscar award yet, Delirium? :lol
Like I said before, HT's own system proves that this is, in fact, a war each and every time the arena is reset by a country. Read the yellow text next time. ;) :D
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Originally posted by TBolt A-10
Simaril, I'd be careful about how you throw that "complaining" word around. And, "punishment"? Eh. Your outlook seems pretty strict, sir.
No offense intended, and surely none taken. Hyperbole for dramatic impact is both time honored and effective -- and that's all I was up to.
Although if you read through the very long thread in which HT first proposed timed delay as a way to induce country switch, you may feel (as I did) that HT's attitude wasnt far from penalty mode at the time.....
BTW, arguments based on how unfair things were when the rooks were low are pretty much irrelevant. If it hurt gamepaly then, it hurts gameplay now -- and arguing that it should be left unaddressed are little more than attempts at gentle vengeance.
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Originally posted by TBolt A-10
Have you been nominated for the Best Drama Oscar award yet, Delirium? :lol
Like I said before, HT's own system proves that this is, in fact, a war each and every time the arena is reset by a country. Read the yellow text next time. ;) :D
Nope your still wrong ...
Read my sig ... its a direct quote from HT and it came about from the ENY discussion.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Nope your still wrong ...
Read my sig ... its a direct quote from HT and it came about from the ENY discussion.
HiTech : And please do not tell me AH is war, because it is not, it is a War game. And games are ment to be fun and fair. While war is not ment to be either fair or fun.
Well, my SINCEREST, MOST HEARTFELT response to HT would then be...
Change the SYSTEM message on reset to:
SYSTEM: Patty-cake, patty-cake was won by (insert country name here)[/size]
:rolleyes: :lol
I look forward to seeing the change soon. :D
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Originally posted by Arlo
I wouldn't go so far as to call it a penalty even. The detractors like to think of it that way. Being "punished" for being fanatically loyal to a chesspiece.
I'd call it incentive. Incentive to realize the MA is a game ... not a war. And a "chesspiece" is a jersey .... not a uniform. And players will move now because of this. And if a player is not one of the ones willing to change sides to balance the arena, that player is free to be stubborn about it. Just as free as he or she is to talk thier boyfriends or girlfriends into changing sides with them. :D
My main issue with the whole "change sides to even numbers" philosophy is that many of us have flown with many of the others on our "teams" for years and have developed a large network of people we know and trust to fly with. I don't want to see them or me deciding to go to another side to balance a temporary inequity in the arena only to be locked in when the imbalance shifts to another side, potentially even the one they went to.
While I understand the desire to prevent the hordes, I also struggle with the frustration of facing the opposition on some other part of the map where I am out-numbered and forced to fly something other than what I want to fly given the local situation. So far it hasn't been a major problem, but I have muttered under my breath a few times.
Having been overseas with the Army for the last year, I am admittedly un-informed about what has been happening in the areana lately. When I left, the Rook Joint Ops (RJOs) were a happening event when the rooks mustered a horde for a night of coordinated missions once a month. I've read some things in this thread that make it seem like more of a weekly occurance. These are well coordinated, planned events with multiple squads (often 10 or more) acting under the command of one squad. This command rotates through the squads and a great time is had by all. The success of these RJOs reinforces the friendships and trust the members of these squads have for each other and make it even less desirable to switch sides - even for a short time. I have often wondered that I have seen nothing similar from the other sides in response to the RJOs.
The answer might be the disparity in number of established squads. I have recently begun linking AH squads on my netaces site. As I have gone through listing them, an interesting trend has begun to show. After going through the first 48 squads with websites, 22 are Rook, 17 are Knight, and only 9 are Bish. While having a website isn't the only thing that indicates a squad is active, it is certainly an indicator and shows a disparity that could be corrected by limiting new squad formations to countries which are understrength. This would not be a short term solution, but might, as time wears on, cause people interested in forming new squads to form them in the countries that need them.
Jeez, I've written a book so I'm gonna stop. Just my $.25
Hammer
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